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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Random Cobbled Thoughts

Parisroubaix_mediumI am getting close to running out of things to say this week. [No, I do not need medical assistance.] I have spared you another cobbles power poll, find it impossible to pick a winner, and can't think of any way to describe the Paris-Roubaix parcours that isn't already the subject of 25 other articles or books. But I can't seem to shake a few thoughts that have been floating around my head all week, so I'd better write them down.

Has anyone ever won Paris-Roubaix on their first try? Obviously the answer is yes, since someone (a M. Josef Fischer of Germany) won the first one. But in modern times has this happened? I can't think of any of the bigger names doing this. Marc Demeyer, Roger de Vlaeminck and Tom Boonen were all 24 when they scored their first wins, but I'm pretty sure all of them had ridden it before. I imagine there are a handful of people who won in their first try, but not in recent times.

Where is the race in its arc these days? I have little basis for this, but I suspect that Paris-Roubaix is one of the most stable races on the planet, in several respects. First, its prominence ensures that ASO will make it a high priority, so it shouldn't worry about continuity or support. At least as importantly, however, is the fact that the route is nearly a museum now, thanks to Les Amis. Gone are the questions as to whether sectors need to be removed from the route, or whether ASO need to re-draw the route to add more of the infernal stones. A sector or two may undergo changes occasionally, but the debate over whether the Arenberg is safe... I think we're past that, permanently, as all the sectors of interest are lovingly maintained by the volunteers. This is maybe a bit more remarkable than it sounds, til you consider that the race nearly disappeared off the map (along with the cobbles) in the 1950s and really only came back to life in the 1960s, with the organizers forced to scramble madly to find first enough cobbles, then enough that could be ridden safely. Even in recent years ASO have tinkered with the route to add sections. Now I think it's fairly well set, apart from the inevitable minor adjustments.

What does this race mean to the riders? In A Journey Through Hell, several riders like Fausto Coppi and Bernard Hinault are quoted as saying that they felt they had to win Paris-Roubaix at least once, for their legacy. Nowadays riders are somewhat more specialized in their race programs, and Paris-Roubaix is a convenient event to cross off your list when you need your collarbone intact for things like the Ardennes, Giro, etc. This was ever more so the case when people worried whether the Arenberg should be ridden by humans on bikes at all... but now that the course is in proper condition, I wonder if a few more prominent riders will be tempted into taking a stab at the Queen of the Classics. Not the pure climbers, like Contador or Gesink, but think about some recent grand tour winners or other names of interest. Should Basso, a powerful chronoman, give it a shot? What about Cadel Evans? Alejandro Valverde? David Rebellin? Christian VandeVelde? Mick Rogers? Gustav Larsson? Just daydreaming here, but watching Greg LeMond and Sean Kelly chasing Marc Madiot was a reminder that Paris-Roubaix is not exclusively for the draft horses, or wasn't back when the great champions felt they needed a cobble to complete their trophy case.

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Obvious answer indeed

And you knew it of course.

Hinault only rode the race once and won it.

by Lopex on Apr 10, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Are you sure?

I thought he rode it in 1980, then won in 1981.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

My bad

He didn’t ride it again after winning. Similar trivia question.

by Lopex on Apr 10, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sometimes

My memory just conjures up its own epic cycling stories ;-)

by Lopex on Apr 10, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

In fairness

I asked myself several times if Hinault won on his only try, but found mention of him in the 1980 race in the book I linked to. Otherwise I might have run with that story.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

In double fairness

CN reported this a few days ago:

[Hinault] won nearly every Classic, but for me 1981 Paris Roubaix stands out above all others. Not just because he wore the rainbow jersey, or because it came down to a thrilling sprint between six of the best riders in the world, but mainly because Hinault won the race at his very first attempt.
I figured Lopex picked up the misinformation there.

"Sean Kelly? Sorry, I am not so good with cycling history. I just want to race." --Edvald Boasson Hagen

by majope on Apr 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those other years

he was just out for a ride, not really racing.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I starting to feel a litlte bit less ashamed ;-)

But in triple fairness. In his book The Rider Tim Krabbé wrote some very nice things about the fact that reality has nothing to do with cycling legends. If legend has it that Anquetil moved his water bottle from his bike to his back pocket when climbing to make his bike lighter, but if all climbing photo’s of him show his water bottle on his bike than the photo’s clearly are wrong!

by Lopex on Apr 11, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hinault rode the race a few times

He finished:

  • 4th in 1980

  • 11th in 1979

  • 13th in 1978

I’m looking here to find a 1st time winner and I’m coming up with nothing. Folks that win it young start racing it REALLY young. (i.e., Vandaerarden, Tchmill, Boonen, et. al.)

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Apr 10, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Told you something about Boonen's future that he was 3rd in his first try.

"Sean Kelly? Sorry, I am not so good with cycling history. I just want to race." --Edvald Boasson Hagen

by majope on Apr 10, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

Nice video of him working for Hincapie… until Hink falls into the ditch.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm watching that very edition on the trainer right now

Just watched him in Flanders the previous week, as Phil and Paul gushed about his potential. They got that one right.

"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."

Tom Boonen

by Drew Davis on Apr 11, 2009 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Blogging from the trainer

Drew is living the dream!

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 11, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good old

voice recognition software. If he’s got any sense he’ll do it the old fashioned way.

by Monty. on Apr 11, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

As far as I can tell, the last rider to win on his 1st attempt

was Jean Forestier in 1955. It was his 3rd year as a pro and I don’t see a record of him finishing in 1954 or 1953. I haven’t seen start lists for those years for riders or teams. He rode for Follis in 54 & 53, did they start PR those years? Can anyone confirm?

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Apr 10, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Random cobble thoughts

I did 85 kilometers on the Flanders course today hitting koppenberg, kwaremont, patenberg and about 10 other cobbled hills. They were tough, and the koppenberg was downright brutal, but the most mentally demoralizing stretch of the whole day was 2ks of flat cobbles. If you don’t go in with 100 percent conviction, you’re toast. One small rest or pause and momentum is shattered never to be gained again. Keeping massive power for such a long period of time without the smallest blink of an eye was almost impossible. After today, I am convinced PR is the harder race. I can’t even imagine what those guys go through.

by PopUp Rolen on Apr 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

A few responses

1. I hate you. I say that with the utmost warmth and respect.

2. So… momentum. I’ve only ridden cobbles a few meters at a time, so I imagine P-R being as much like a bumpy time trial as anything else. So I appreciate your confirmation of this.

3. Is there any difference in quality of the stones? If you’ve only been to these places and not the P-R course, then maybe I should ask, how rough are the stones on the famous Hellingen?

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

and

4. So… did you manage to go in with 100% conviction?

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

here we go

1. Understood. Wait until I run down the beer list. Then you will really hate me.

2. More stress than a timetrialbecause you can’t get into a groove. You just have to gear up super high and flail wildly. It’s quite terrifying and the damage to the hands and arm are brutal.

3. The stones are brutal but not unmanageable going uphill. The koppenberg was the only helligen that I really noticed the shape oh the stones because it’s so hard to keep your front wheel down that a bad stone will put you on the ground. Will be interesting to compare it to PR on Sunday.

4. At the start of the day and all of the helligens, yes, went full gas and dominated. At the end of the day, I would drive through 50 meters of cow manure if it meant I could avoid riding on stones.

I’ll have much more when I get back. But typing all this on my iPhone is really hurting my arms.

by PopUp Rolen on Apr 10, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

The iPhone has a really big touch screen - lucky for pop up

When I rode part of the Flanders course in 06, I agreed with everything he said, with the addition that going down the cobbles wasn’t any picnic either. Not only do you have to keep your bike pointed in the right direction, you have to try to keep your eyeballs in your head so you can actually see where you’re going – not an easy task.

"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."

Tom Boonen

by Drew Davis on Apr 11, 2009 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Couldn't agree more with drew

Going downhill on cobbles is brutal and almost as hard as going uphill or over the flats. You feel like your bike Is going to explode

by PopUp Rolen on Apr 11, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting NY Times article on Job

…err, Hincapie.

When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.

by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 10, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Hink

seems like a tough interview. Not a bad dude, just speaks in short thoughts, doesn’t seem like a talker. I asked him a couple Qs at the ATOC and got that impression.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me guess the conversation

- Can I have your bike?"

- “No”

by Jens on Apr 10, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing of the sort

Just a harmless question about where they planned to attack that day, and with whom.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

might have better luck in Spanish

Part of the Fort Davis stage race conversations this weekend involved our team-mate Camillo (who’s Colombian) over-hearing Hincapie speaking Spanish to someone at Interbike (at the Polar booth of all places). So . . . Camillo hustles over and, en espanol, asks GH the equivalent of “dude, why do you speak Spanish with a Colombian accent?”

To which, GH responds, roughly translated: “Por que, dude, because my dad’s Colombian.” A nice conversation followed.

by R Mc on Apr 10, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

O/T

There’s something historic, or maybe harmonious, about Paris-Roubaix happening on Easter:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090410/ap_on_re_eu/eu_vatican_good_friday

Then there’s the whole “Five stations of the cross” course description.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions  

And a very important question...

Is it acceptable to drink Chimay during a race through northern France? I’m thinking that surely it’s close enough to the border, LOL.

by Lou... on Apr 10, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm stopping on the way home from work to get some Leffe

so I’m sure Chimay cuts it. Besides, do you really want to drink French Beer?

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Apr 10, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually there are some fantastic French beers

from that region, it’s the Lille region (Roubaix is basically a suburb of Lille), the French kind of think of it as their Flanders. It’s more a beer than a wine region. The problem is we get very few of those beers in North America, I imagine because everyone just associates France with wine.

by plinytheelder on Apr 10, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

north of france and brittany are good beer regions. here in the south of france the best thing goin is leffe and chimay – sold everywhere. Along with some other things you can only find in certain stores.

by yeehoo on Apr 11, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

“I am getting close to running out of things to say this week.”

623 words later, I’m calling you a liar.

"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill"
-- Fausto Coppi

by TCWriter on Apr 10, 2009 7:20 PM EDT reply actions  

That's

about 20% of a normal Holy Week day…

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

Huh, I enjoyed it, but I’m easily amused ;-)

by Jen See on Apr 10, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, me too

though there was a bit of deja vu (though this time, he wasn’t wearing the Belgium nat champion’s jersey).

If we’re talking about VDS, then, yes, it was disappointing (I had hoped for more from Tommeke than 5 points).

by Le Comte on Apr 10, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

A bit

but you know, the best races aren’t guaranteed to be big drama every time. And anyway, just like over there, it’s as much about the experience and the crowds, including ours.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

er

rest of my message was something about how not every great recurring event is guaranteed to play out in the way you hope. But all that counts is the company, and the frites. Besides, what can you expect with Cancellara and Ballan missing?

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point

I was pretty underwhelmed by the race too…but hadn’t thought about how much not having those guys there (or not really having them) affected things.

Part of what made it boring for me was QS’s dominance – kind of seemed like men among boys.

by plinytheelder on Apr 10, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I for one would like to see Cadel give it a try

I’m not sure that he has the raw power but he definitely seems to have the grit to stay in the front through the end. He’d have to attack before the ’drome, though, and we know he usually limits those to once or twice a year.

Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.

by OnTheRivet on Apr 10, 2009 9:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Cadel

should be able to make it into a late selection, I’d think. Damn, that would be interesting.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 10, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny that

Because on the road he’s not exactly known for being a fabulous bike handler, in descents for example.

by tedvdw on Apr 11, 2009 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

si

He has always looked like he was still descending a mountain bike. Doesn’t work on the road – you have to weight the front wheel more and well, other things.

by Jen See on Apr 11, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wish somebody could compare to Sean Kelly that is riding right now...

This used to be his week…He would ride Flanders, go to Pais Vasco, then go to Roubaix.
In 1984 and 1986, he won both Pais Vasco and Roubaix and got second in Flanders in both years..Best rider who never won a Tour/Giro.

Somebody who should at least try to ride it once is Kolobnev. He definately has some grinta to him but he would be blown out the back after a while.

by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 11, 2009 6:04 AM EDT reply actions  

I notice Popovych is leading Astana

He won the P-R espoirs, but is this his first ride as a pro?

by William H on Apr 11, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

talk about a short discussion on the Astana bus

“so . . . who wants to be leader for Paris-Roubaix?”

Slava? Sean? Dirk? Oh . . . wait, we can’t ride. I guess that leaves Popo.

by R Mc on Apr 11, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

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