Techs-Mechs: Holy week, final thoughts
by Mr Van P on Apr 16, 2009 9:09 PM EDT
39 comments
Ardennes week is almost here, which means it's time to replace those 46t chain rings with the 39t. And there's no need for the heavy duty frames, canti's, 27mm tires, box rim 36 spoke wheels and all the other tidbits that made the previous week so much fun (ok fun to tech nerds..). Now the racers will be back on their 15lb super quick race machines, with carbon everywhere imaginable and skinny tires again. Durability and comfort over nasty cobbles is no longer a concern.
What did I learn last weekend? In the end, despite all the fun talk about modified cross bikes (and there were plenty of those out there), it was a guy (Boonen) on a fairly standard road bike (Ok, the Specialized Roubaix is not exactly your average road bike, but it's no cross bike either) with bigger tires took the prize. The rest of the podium included Pippo on his fairly standard Ridley with carbon rims and 23mm tires. I haven't seen third place finisher Thor's bike, but I suspect he was on a Cervelo R3 or maybe the RS with Zipp 303's. It just goes to show what advances have been made in carbon fiber technology in a relatively short time.
Boonen took chances, handled his 18.3 lb bike brilliantly, stayed out of trouble and eventually won going away. He IS that good, but the last 2 P-R's were won on the Roubaix and Tommeke seemed to just get stronger as the race progressed. The last 4 P-R's were won on carbon bikes designed to dampen vibrations (the R3 with it's pencil-thin seat stays and the Roubaix with it's Zertz inserts). Coincidence? Perhaps, but it sure was a fun race watching the equipment tested to the extreme.
Now back to those boring old climbers bikes....
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imagine this with the casing in green
under your christmas tree.
Voila, le boyaux qui s’impose a Paris Roubaix . . .
custom versions considerably more expensive than shown . . .
by R Mc on Apr 16, 2009 10:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sweet tires
i can only imagine them all gunked up by a crappy glue job though…
by Mr Van P on Apr 16, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you've been talking
to my team-mates again . . .
The silk Dugast Paris-Roubaix tires are $205 each . . . which makes me shudder to imagine what the fmb’s must be.
by R Mc on Apr 16, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was speaking of my own glue job
but you can feel my pain. They must ride really nice.
by Mr Van P on Apr 16, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mais
I’d guess that the real tech story of this year’s race would have something to do with the tire pressure Boonen rode those tires at.
Sure, his bike handling was noticeably better than all of the rest of those who made the final selection, but choice of psi alog with tire choice just might have been really significant for this year’s conditions.
by R Mc on Apr 16, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that was...?
Is his psi a state secret, I wonder? Known only to members of the Belgian secret service.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 17, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a game to see how low you can
go with out risking a flat. You could never do it with clinchers due to the pinch flats you would get. A nice 24mm-27mm tubie can probably be ridden in the 70-75psi range without flats. For all we know he may have been even lower than that. Cross racers on tubies will run pressures in the mid-high 20’s.
by Mr Van P on Apr 17, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Boonen ride 27mm tires?
That would be cool.
by Markk on Apr 16, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
25's
The brand was blacked out. They looked like Vittoria Pave’s if I were to guess. Watching Boonen bombing across the cobbles with Thor crashing while trying to hold his wheel makes you wonder if the 32h Ambrosio’s with 25mm tubies were a better choice than Thor’s 303’s… Or Tommeke’s just simply better at riding cobbles…
by Mr Van P on Apr 16, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CN did a write up on Boonen's bike
they speculate that the tires were FMB’s
by jsallee00 on Apr 16, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I loved the look of Boonen's and Pippo's
Record cranks with matching 53/46t chainrings. Pippo was really on a regular bike save for the 53/46t cranks. It didn’t even look like he added extra tape. His tires were a special Vredestein 23mm tubula with a deeper tread. His bike was 15.85lbs (a full pound lighter than my race bike).
by Mr Van P on Apr 16, 2009 11:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Extra tape is talked up a lot sometimes but I don't think you really need anything more than double wrapped bars.
Especially when Backstedt put a few pieces of mouse pad in their which is totally unnecessary.
I also love the look of the Record crank with the 53/46…It just screams speed.
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 17, 2009 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't use extra tape.
According to Cyclingnews.
As you mentioned, aside from the 46T inner, it was a standard setup.
suck it, fixie h8rz
by itswells on Apr 17, 2009 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing about Pippo's bike that is not regular
Is the shallowness of the seat tube angle. Way more kicked back compared to most others, I would guess 72 or even 71 degrees. The CN article said he uses a full 10cm of saddle setback, which reminds me of the old Guimard/Gitane/Look/Hinault/Fignon/LeMond bikes. Those things had a ton of saddle setback, as a result of Guimard’s power-output lab studies. Interesting to see Pippo on a similar geometry. He was on the same geometry at Flanders too.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 17, 2009 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I immediately thought "old skool set-up" too, when I read that.
That kind of goes away from the current “stiff/compact/stiff/aggressive/stiff” trend we’re seeing from everyone else. His top tube is even parallel to the ground…what a concept!
I was somewhat indifferent to Pippo before, but I kinda dig him now.
suck it, fixie h8rz
by itswells on Apr 17, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I still dig that shallow bike setup, especially for anything rough.
Getting behind the crank like that, with your ass weight over the rear wheel, is a very stable power position for road riding, and helps on rough surfaces. One reason why so many guys crash constantly on their steep-geometry TT bikes is too much body weight out over the front wheel…..wheel washes out easily in corners, just loses grip. Same with a lot of steep Crit-bike setups. (But for Crits most do prefer an accelleraton-oriented setup more forward.)
I miss my old Serotta’s….those frames were parallel 73 geometry, and felt so good for road races and road riding/climbing. In my frame size, most everythng else is 74 to 76 degrees (seattube), including my current road bike which is 74.5. Gotta shove the saddle all the way back on the rails, and I’d still love to have another 1 or 2 cm of setback on top of that even.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 17, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell are you riding with a 74.5 seat angle?
How tall are you?
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 17, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
5'7", longish torso (14cm stem), shortish legs.
Most builders’ off the shelf smaller frames steepen the seat tube angle, unfortunately, as a compromize to avoid toe overlap with the front wheel. A seatpost with additional setback helps a bit. But yeah I hate that geometry. That’s why I loved the Serottas. Specialized roadbikes also have parallel 73 on a lot of small models. LeMond’s frames were shallow too. But most small frame sizes get too steep. And toptube too short.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 17, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why?
would that give him more dampening?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 17, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The setback position is more about power and stability...and dood has a very long femur ratio too
But yes a less steep frame with a non sloping top tube has a larger main triangle which would give you more dampening. Being stretched out like both Boonen and Pippo also allows your body itself to do more dampening.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 17, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i doubt it is slacked farther then 72.
That would be really far.
Any farther would require a chainstay length which would not be very good as it would have a turing radious of an F350.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 17, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A centimeter of chainstay length is almost no difference in handling/radius, but does make it feel softer.
….compared to, say, a change in fork rake or headtube angle. That’s what really makes a bike steer differently and feel very different on climbs and when out of the saddle. BB height also makes a huge difference in feel/stability when climbing. But to be honest, even though I can feel it, I have never truly been able to understand why that is!
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 17, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The saddle setback is deciving as the post head size is actually really large and so the saddel cannot actually go back all that far.
This is a common misconception.
The benifit to a post like this is the clamp area is very large so the foce is dispersed more evenly on the rails.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 17, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He said ten cm of setback.
That is way more than average, nomatter how you slice it. And you can see how far back over the rear wheel it is. There are other riders out there with frames like this too, mostly tall guys with very long femurs. In that case, they cant get their knee neutral over the the pedal (at 3 o clock and 9 o clock) without a shallow seatube angle of 71 to 73.
I did some work on organizing Nat’l team bikes in the early 90’s (and changing wheels in races, so fun!)…..saw/learned a lot of cool stuff about fitting guys to their bikes. You’d be surprised how many deviations there are for guys and ladies with unusually long or short limbs/torsos/arms/feet etc. Foot length makes a huge difference, people on’t often realize that.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 17, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost wished it would have rained at P-R this year...
just so their would be so much different equipment used. i.e. more cantilever brakes and different tire and especially the psi choices that would be used.
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 17, 2009 4:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
RE: Thor's Ride
I could’ve swore I read somewhere the whole team (except Barbie) were riding S2’s. I’ll dig around and see if I could find it.
suck it, fixie h8rz
by itswells on Apr 17, 2009 5:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't find Thor's bike mentioned.
But, again in CN, it’s mentioned that the team is on RS’s with long reach calipers and beefier front forks.
suck it, fixie h8rz
by itswells on Apr 17, 2009 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CN did a write up on Hausslers
bike wich was the RS. One of my club buddie has that frame. the seat stays are rdiculously thin. It is based on the RS but with a longer headtube and slightly more relaxed geometry Haussler had the longer head tube, but offset that with 0 headset spacers and a -17 deg stem. Haussler’s RS was pretty much standard issue except for a beefier fork with more tire clearance than the usual 3T Funda fork.
by Mr Van P on Apr 17, 2009 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know exactly what you are thinking of....it was an earlier classic
I remember specifically that during one of them Roger Hammond was the only one riding an RS( his bike had been stolen during the week) and the rest were riding S2’s…it was either E3 or the Ronde.
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 17, 2009 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check out the Cervelo rider page.
It lists each rider’s different bikes/setups—for Thor they have 4: racing, training, classics, and TT. They don’t list a separate bike for PR, but you can at least see the difference between the regular race bike (S3) and classics bike (S2).
"Sean Kelly? Sorry, I am not so good with cycling history. I just want to race." --Edvald Boasson Hagen
by majope on Apr 17, 2009 6:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am suprised that he is actually riding the Antares saddle...
it seems to have been widely rejected within the pro peloton so far.
Hmm….there also seems to be no differences between his regular road bike and the classics set-up except for tires and frame. I know he was riding 303’s in the classics though.
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 17, 2009 6:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maaskant's Felt F1
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 17, 2009 9:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of flatlander gear
I’m going to North Carolina tomorrow. I have my 53/42 11/23 gearing on. I was tempted to put the 46t on just in the spririt of things, but got lazy. No hills along the coast, but plenty of wind, so I’ll be on low profile rims as well.
by Mr Van P on Apr 17, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
53/46 won’t shift so good as the tooth range is actually too close.
It would require a dedicated set, and even then it would be kinda rough.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 17, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
53/42 should really be fine.
On my cross bike I run a 46/36 and that seems to be just about right. I have a 46/39 set up as well, but I never used it in a race. I like having the 36t granny gear for the hills I’m too lazy to run up (ok, wal up). The 46/39 shifted ok too, but I never used it in a race.
by Mr Van P on Apr 17, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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