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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

Theo Bos Incident DEBUNKED

With so many points of view on the Theo Bos vs Daryl Impey incident I figured that someone had to settle it once and for all. It certainly looked intentional, but too many things didn't add up. Why would Theo throw Impey right in front of himself? Is Theo that much of a nutbar to do something that ridiculously dangerous? Would it even be possible to manhandle someone like that while going 50-60km/hr on a bike?

On the flip: an experiment!

Star-divide

I got thinking about it, and I don't know how plausible it really is to be able the throw a man off a bike like that. I can't say that I've ever tried it before, but without any leverage, the gyroscopic effect of those wheels and forward motion, and a 60-70kg man on the the bike with both hands on the bars, I'm thinking that it would be tough for a rider to be thrown off his bike in the fashion that Theo Bos appeared to have done. This morning I went out with the helmetcam and fellow tipster, Tymmsy, to find out. Back in my college days I used to competitively compete in dwarf throwing, so if anyone had a chance at replicating the Bos - Impey incident, it was me. Don't try this at home boys and girls.

 

 

After this experiment I'm certain there's no way in hell that it's possible for one man to throw another off his bike like this. Especially when the rider being thrown has two hands on the bars and you only have one. If anything, the rider who is doing the throwing will likely crash. The only thing that happened is that I got thrown backwards and Tymmsy darted forwards. There was no way I could sway his direction so that he would come in front of me. There's a great slow-mo video of the whole incident here. It doesn't necessarily answer anything, but I think I've sufficiently cleared this myth up as BUSTED. Was Theo at fault? Perhaps, but that doesn't mean that he did it intentionally.

I am in the process of registering the domain name www.IbelieveTheo.com where I'll set up a fund to prove his innocence. With IbelieveTyler.com recently being shut down there will be a flood of charity coming in.

TIP: If you want to throw someone off his bike you just grab his bars and twist. Theo surely knows this. Not that I'd ever advocate anything that would involve injuring a fellow rider. Ice hockey is a different story though ;-)

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Yes! I knew he didn't do it on purpose...

I do believe Theo no matter what anybody says…wow that made me sound like somebody supporting a known doper.

by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 23, 2009 2:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Even though the video doesn’t show it very well, I pulled and pushed on the other rider’s jersey as hard as I could and he wasn’t moving anywhere. I’m 6’1, 180lbs and the other guy is about 5’8, 160lbs. if we were standing on foot I’m sure I could have given him an ass-whooping, but on the bike it’s a different story. The only times I’ve seen someone “thrown” off their bike intentionally is when their handlebars are grabbed.

by cyclingtips on Apr 23, 2009 2:24 AM EDT reply actions  

No no

It looked like you were just brushing lint off his shoulder. I know you are a part of the grand conspiracy to rehabilitate Bos. Obviously.

Anyway, no myth is truly busted unless Kari is involved.

Busted the busting. Clearly.

by Sui Juris on Apr 23, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's a big dutch conspiracy

you watch yourselves , before you know it they will be wanting New Amsterdam back. It never seemed fair how that deal went down.

Moreover, it is my opinion that Alejandro Valverde is an asshole who should not be allowed to compete in bikeraces right now.

by Jens on Apr 23, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're sounding backwards man

We already want back New York.
There was a great site about that too but it seems to have had a hostile takeover from Shell.

by Lopex on Apr 23, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

YOU WANT NEW YORK?!

YOU CAN’T HANDLE NEW YORK!!

Actually, if this happened, I might have to move there.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 23, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure

We could handle New York better than you guys could handle Amsterdam…

by Lopex on Apr 23, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

New York will never happen.

There’s some senior debt holders waiting in the wings.

by Sui Juris on Apr 23, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bogart: (laughs) Major, there are some parts of New York where even the Third Reich will be afraid to go…

from Casablanca

formerly known as cyclingchallenge

by Willj on Apr 24, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

You need more than just Kari

You need Grant to whip up a radio controlled cyclist robot and then you need Tory to dress up in protective gear and hurt himself somehow… but nice try.

More Muur...

by Jimbo... on Apr 23, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kari

 :) Kari :)

Dude... why WOULDN'T Thor ride the chicken?

by crashdan on Apr 23, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tory knows

Ouch

Oh my, I've just fallen in love with Roger De Vlaeminck's sideburns.

by TheFigurehead on Apr 23, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

Your claim that you could give this guy an ass-whooping on the ground sounds speculative. Could you do another video?

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 23, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're right!

You’re probably right Chris….I’ve had my ass whooped by my little sister before and my wife – both who are much smaller than me. I jumped the gun by saying that.

;-)

by cyclingtips on Apr 23, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm...

Hard to see how it can be done accidentally if it can’t be done on purpose. So clearly the answer is that the crash, like the Apollo moon landing, was staged for TV. Very clever, really—I mean, before this, how many people even knew there WAS a Tour of Turkey?

by tgartner on Apr 23, 2009 3:14 AM EDT reply actions  

I did...

There was a live stream previos year… Saw parts of those stage…

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on Apr 23, 2009 4:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh.

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on Apr 24, 2009 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cool stuff

Theo will be delighted!

by Lopex on Apr 23, 2009 5:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Matt Keenan (SBS commentator) says it best. It simply boils down to this:

    "I believe him, it wasn’t deliberate. Despite that, it was purely Theo Bos’ fault and he should be suspended for a minimum of 3 months. He tried to come up the inside on Daryl Imepy to keep himself sheltered from the wind protected, because he didn’t have much team support from the Rabobank squad. As Impey was just minding his own business the gate was starting to close on Theo Bos, he put the hand on the shoulder of Daryl Impey and brought him down. He should not be taking his hands off the bars in a sprint"

Theo, a pure sprinter, forgot rule #6. He should know better not to box himself in.

by cyclingtips on Apr 23, 2009 6:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Everyone keeps bringing up some sort of 'hands-on-bars' rule.

That rule, I don’t think it exists where they think it exists. I am Inigo Impey, you have crashed my father, prepare to be crashed!

by tedvdw on Apr 23, 2009 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is a funny video,

and I laud you for your work. That said, isn’t it a bit beside the point? I don’t really think too many people are still saying that Bos intentionally went out and threw Impey to the ground. Rather, I think they’re saying exactly what Kennan says – not a deliberate throwdown but a mistake, and an unprofessional one at that, that should probably require some kind of suspension.

by plinytheelder on Apr 23, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh, I was keeping an open mind on that.

Still sort of am, because if anyone knows what tricks it would take to do this, it would be a top level track racer. But I’m about 90% / 10% on the side of near-criminal recklessness by now.

Sooo… say… three months or half again as long as the time that Impey loses before he’s racing seriously, whichever is longer?

by JFS_PGH on Apr 23, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

and rule #5 thus Impey's epithet for Bos:

“chophead.” If I understand right, that means Bos did something unethically stupid and actionably careless and dangerous by trying to come up an inside line that wasn’t there, and F*cking up massively in the process. It doesn’t necessarily mean Impey thinks Bos intentionally tried to just about kill him.

PS nice list and explanations!

by JFS_PGH on Apr 23, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

good job!

That was pretty funny. Mythbusting or not, you deserve props for trying it.

by ant1 on Apr 23, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions  

I glad it didn't work on the pavement.

How awful would that be if it didn’t work on the grass, feeling confident you attempt on the payment at 40 k/h and it works. That’d be some debunking.

by brunopitton on Apr 23, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Madison Sling

First I will state that I don’t think this was intentional.

However what happened somewhat resembles a Madison sling in a track race, which wasn’t really reproduced in this fine video making effort.

Note in the race that Bos is initially moving faster than Impey (he is coming up on him on the left side). This is very similar to a Madison Sling, where the relief rider drops down the banking to just above (right side of his teammate), whereby his teammate throws him into the race. There is a transfer of momentum, whereby the relief rider speeds up and his partner slows down, both dramatically. This happens somewhat in the race footage.

It is also common in a madison for the rider being thrown in to drop down in front of the rider who threw him in. So how is this situation different?

1) There is no banking on this road, so it is is harder for Impey to go/drift in front of Bos

2) Bos grabbed Impey rather high up on his jersey, as opposed to a Madison where hand slings are typically used, but previously it was normal practice to grab your partner’s shorts, which had a rolled up piece of cloth (jamming tool) to grab onto in a special pocket- No Snickering…!

By using hand slings you get much better leverage, have a longer throw, and it is easier to drop down in front of the person throwing you. By using shorts you still have better leverage and a longer throw than grabbing someone’s jersey, but not by much.

3) The difference in speed between the 2 riders isn’t as great as it is during a Madison exchange.

As a champion trackie, surely Bos knows how to do Madison slings, and how to throw someone off their bike (which happens fairly often to newbies in Madisons, and occasionaly to even very experienced riders). But this isn’t what he did here.

What really happened is probably invisible from this helicopter camera angle. But I suspect it is a combination of things which have been previously discussed, including losing balance, hitting a barricade leg, counter-steering, grasping for straws, but grabbing jersey). Impey was probably pulled down more so than being thrown down.

To go back to the original post on this matter, anyone trying to reproduce this should probably be wearing one of those inflatable sumo suits, or at least hold a union card for the stuntman’s guild.

by touriste-routier on Apr 23, 2009 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

For real? The original Madison throw was a super-wedgie?

I’m not snickering—oh wait, yes I am—but totally dumbfounded. Pictures?

by JFS_PGH on Apr 23, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haven't found pictures

But found this

For hip slings the relief rider should keep both hands of the drops. The field rider will grab onto a jamming tool in an internal pocket in the relief rider’s special madison shorts. Jamming tools are frequently old socks taped into a firm cylindrical shape approximately 1.5- 2" diameter by 6" in length.

"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!

by jsallee00 on Apr 23, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, now I'm snickering too.

Is that a jamming tool in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?

You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold

by majope on Apr 23, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

uh....

wrong jamming tool, dude

"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!

by jsallee00 on Apr 23, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Er...

Allow me to join in the snickering.

Holy crap! You can’t make this stuff up!

by Jen See on Apr 23, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Madison Shorts/Jamming Tool

OK, I am going to take the bait, especially since I cast it, knowing full well this is taking us way off topic. Unfortunately I still have my Assos Madison Shorts; I know I am going to regret this (as much as I did the original post) but here we go, with photos.

Photo 1 A jamming tool. When I rode, rolled up wash clothes or shop rags secured with duct tape were more typical than old socks.

Photo 2: Madison Shorts outside view. This is 2 layers of heavy lycra, cross stitched, plus an internal pocket:

Photo 3: Madison Shorts inside view; I’ve spared you the chamois shot:

Photo 4: Madison Shorts with Jamming Tool Inserted, inside view:

I will spare you with photos of people grabbing my shorts/butt- you can do a web search for madisons and find video and images of both hand and butt slings.

by touriste-routier on Apr 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can find the first one

here and work your way along. It won’t calm the sniggerers, but I’m glad not to have to face a photo of them being worn.

by Monty. on Apr 24, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I believe I've found

next year’s VDS team name.

You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold

by majope on Apr 24, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you have links on your pics? I'm getting the red x.

And no, I’m not snickering (well at least not too loudly), I’m actually interested in the Track history stuff.

I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!

by nikki on Apr 25, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Myth bust busted

Just watch the video of the incident. If rider A grabs hold of the jersey of rider B and goes done himself, preferably into the wheels of rider A, then rider B he can indeed bring rider A down. We saw it happen, so we know it can be done.

  • * * *

But, who would risk his life and career to do this intentionally? A huge motive would have to be proved before I would consider such a dramatic more to be purposeful or premeditated.

  • * * *

The most obvious inference from the video replay is that Bos just panicked when he felt himself getting squeezed into the barriers; and, in a state of panic, he grabbed out at the nearest rider in a desperate attempt to break his fall.

  • * * * *

Bos’s big no-no was taking his hand off the bars in the last click, and worse yet grbbing at another rider in a vain attempt to save himself. The rules are clear that (1) both hands stay on the bar in the run-up and sprint; and (2) the unwritten rule is that a falling rider doesn’t try to safe himself at the risk of other riders - rather he bite the bullet and hopes his crash won’t impede others.

  • * * * *

Should Bos be penalized? YES! His riding was unprofessional — he should’ve have just gone down himself and tried not to take anyone else with him. PROs are not allowed to have panic like mere mortals. That’s why they get paid to race.

Should Bos be crucified as a horrible cheater? NO! Not unless strong evidence show he had an ulterior ($$$$) motive for purposefully taking down another rider. And this is unlikely, as he did not appear to be stalking the yellow jersey in the finale.

by DeathBredon on Apr 23, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions  

What are you blind ?

Now repeat your experiment where you strike a fence, and the fence pulls your body to the left and your body weight, being stopped by the fence, yanks down the other rider to the left and into the same fence.

Silly.

We all have seen riders get completely wiped out by much less than that every week. Its just that in this case we see the hand reach out and we see the jersey pull. What was in his mind we will never know but yank him off his bike and into the fence he clearly did.

by thevaro on Apr 23, 2009 11:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Silly

I think you’re taking this too seriously thevaro. However, I challenge you to try this for yourself and you will agree that it’s impossible for one rider to pull another down if he’s not on his way down already

by cyclingtips on Apr 24, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not on purpose

After watching the slo mo version in hi resolution, I’m convinced Bos didn’t do it on purpose. At first I thought Bos had a complete brain explosion. But now I don’t think he did.

It was stupid, but not on purpose. Bos has his arm on Impey, tries to push him right. Impey leans left because another Barloworld (I think) rider is very close on his right. Bos keeps his arm there, gets closer to the fence, and in the slo mo hi res version YOU CAN SEE THE FENCE MOVE OUTWARD when Bos hits it. Then he drags Impey down with him and hurls him into the fence.

by Cyclefan on Apr 25, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions  

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