Four Aces and a Straight Flush
by Chris... on Apr 5, 2009 5:07 PM EDT
in News
118 comments
Looking back on today's events, it's hard to add to the typically thorough, lively analysis in the Post-Race thread, but I do want to take stock of today's events in light of what comes next.
That Quick Step stole the show today should come as a surprise to exactly nobody. I really thought that they owed this one to Boonen, but while I counted on a different result, I wouldn't go so far as to call myself surprised. Going in, we knew they had the weapons -- three very dangerous riders, plus ample support to get them in position to make trouble. We debated how to deploy them, but in hindsight there was only one choice: see which one gets in the right move and go with it. Chavanel said afterward he thought he could win, but this is debatable. His first big move contained Leif Hoste and his second Manuel Quinziato, both of whom were threats to steal the win. Boonen, meanwhile, couldn't go anyplace without half the pack reacting. That left Devolder, and you can't lose when you solo home.
I don't blame Pozzato for his tactics. Yes, he could have reacted to Devolder, but if Boonen reacts to him, then he merely weakens himself for the eventual showdown with Tommeke. You can complain about negative riding, but imagine the howls if he'd chased Devo and got hammered at the end by Boonen. "How could you not focus on Tom Freaking Boonen?!" would be the topic of the day. Pippo's great strength forced Boonen out of the equation, but the reverse is equally true too. I am a little miffed with Columbia, who seemed to be in a position to ride more aggressively but again found themselves merely chasing. Quick Step may be the big bad bully of Flanders, but that doesn't mean you should sit there and take it. But beyond that... what could anyone really do?
The story over the rest of Holy Week won't change much, though I am interested in how Lefevre deals with his next big problem: too many hands to play. As the headline suggests, there is no such thing as a team of multiple Flanders champions. However decent and friendly they may be, I absolutely cannot see Devolder and Boonen on the same team next year. I am sure someone will correct me and point out their contract statuses, but regardless of such things, I think one or the other will force his way out of the Lefevre monopoly. Boonen is an icon, but he's also the most likely to get restless. Unless Lefevre can get the team to deliver him another Paris-Roubaix, I suspect Boonen will at least explore the idea that Quick Step isn't big enough for the two of them. Stay tuned...
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How different today might have been...
If Boonen didn’t snort the nose candy and went to Bweeg.
If only, if only…
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh? Do tell how different it may have been?
‘Cause I don’t see how what occured last year has anything to do with this race.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 5, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
um alright...he would be on a different team.Therefore...
When Devolder went to bridge up to the group of 3 up the road….Boonen would have matched him. He would not have to wait if he was on another team. Then most likely more teams would have helped to chase down the leading group which probably would have lead a much bigger group at the Muur and then it would be harder for Devolder to time trial away with so many guys in the chasing group.
Not saying he would not have still won but it would have been a totally different race and some true colors would have been shown
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, hypothetical conjecture on what happened lest year had no impact on this race.
And the odds of Boonan leaving the leadership of Lefevre is so insanely remote that you would need to be delusional to believe it would ever occure.
‘Cause it won’t
Devo on the other hand . . . well maybe.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 6, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pozzato
While I understand the issue of Pozzato following Devolder and then having Boonen and others follow, but isn’t bike racing about winning, particularly when you don’t have alot of strong teammates to protect you in the case of Pozzato. In Pozzato’s case he didn’t go with the break and in the end beat Boonen, but he wasn’t even a factor in the race over the last 20 k, despite finishing 5th.
by ncmussell on Apr 5, 2009 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
However decent and friendly they may be, I absolutely cannot see Devolder and Boonen on the same team next year.
Agreed. But I don’t think it will be Boonen that moves. Quick Step is Boonen is Quick Step.
I am sure someone will correct me and point out their contract statuses
Haven’t you heard? Contracts can’t be broken.
by Sui Juris on Apr 5, 2009 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was just the last 2 years the Boonen was in talks with other teams to LEAVE Quick Step...
and wherever he goes he will take Kevin Hulsmans (his personal/best domestique) and a few more will go with him.
Though currently he is contracted through 2011 though if he wanted too I think a buyout could be made…
Last year Devolder signed a contract through 2010 with an optional clause for another year
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, he talked to other teams
I’m also sure that Michael Jordan talked to someone besides the Bulls. Boonen is the Quick Step identity – I imagine that they’ll do what they need to to hang on to it.
Devolder’s more likely to find a buyout, I think.
by Sui Juris on Apr 5, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was quite ready to sign with Boygues Telecom last year and take his top luitenants with him
But then Bernardeu (Bweeg guy) pulled out of any negotiations from the coke debacle…but who knows
And Devolder is just as popular,if not more so, than Boonen in Flanders…
So if they got rid of either, their would be major flack….but if Boonen gets fed up in the coming years with not being able to win De Ronde their might be a change.
And Chavanel is just an idiot plan and simple.
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t see your perspective.
Lefevre has been building teams like QS with multiple badass riders since the Mapei days.
This current team is of that same model.
Team unity has always been a halmark for the team.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 5, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
no way will Boonen leave QS, ever.
Can’t see Devo leaving either, he’ll be happy with his Ronde wins.. Chava on the other hand…?
by Bruce Suomi on Apr 5, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see what happens next sunday.
IF Boonen wins P-R, then maybe everyone will be content.
by brunopitton on Apr 6, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting comments by Boonen in CN
I noticed these comments the other day in an interview Boonen gave to CyclingNews. He said that if given a choice between winning worlds or Tour of Flanders he said Worlds. This surprised me, anyone else’s thoughts?
by ncmussell on Apr 5, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great analysis.
Thanks for this. Agreed on Pozzato – it’s like Evans in the Alps last year, there’s only so much one can do against 3 or 4.
I do want to bring up a small point about Chavanel. I agree that Devolder looked stronger on the day, but think about it from Ch.‘s point of view. You work your ass off all spring knowing that at some point you’ll get your shot. You go in to the RVV knowing that Boonen’s the leader, but that after that, you’re on equal footing with Devolder (if the Équipe interview is to be believed). You work your ass off and find yourself in a 2-man break. At this point, you’d have to be thinking: my team is going to start working for me, in part because of the effort I’ve put in all day and year, and in part because I’ve got a damn good shot at winning. Next thing you know, your own teammate is bridging the gap, and bringing someone else along. Fine, it’s 2 against 2 – but only you and Devolder are on the same team, so your advantage. But then Devolder attacks…and you’ve got to be the good team player and stay back with the other two. I guess if I were Chavanel, I’d kind of be thinking: it’s one thing for Devolder to bridge up to me and Quinziato; it’s another for him not to work for me once he gets here.
Don’t get me wrong, like I said Devolder looked stronger on the day, and Ch. + D. vs 2 guys from different teams is better than Ch. against someone else 1 on 1. And in the end of the day what’s most important is getting the team the win, however you do it. I’m just saying that I can see where Chavanel’s coming from here – some part of him has to be thinking, when, after all the work I’ve done for everyone else, is someone going to do just a little something for me? I know he’s not team leader anymore…but you have to think he wouldn’t have gone to QS if it was only to be some kind of super-domestique.
by plinytheelder on Apr 5, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
signing with QS and hoping for personal success
in the classics? Gotta be kidding me.
by Bruce Suomi on Apr 5, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe you're right...
but then again, couldn’t the same be said of Devolder – if, as Chavanel said in the interview, they were on equal footing going into the race?
by plinytheelder on Apr 5, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why wasn't he the one to attack on the Muur?
If he was stronger that Devolder or just as strong, he should have spoke up. Not his fault he wasn’t strong enough to follow on a climb where they could have possibly dropped Quinziato and then went 1-2 into Meerbeke.
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
These things are not preordained. If he wanted it he could have attacked but he never did. Can’t make excuses for that. If he attacked and QS overpowered him that would be different. The winner made three huge efforts. One to get away, another to bridge, and a third to go off solo. Pippo did none of the sort, so I don’t understand the thinking at all, honestly. Winning the hardest bike races = attacking, not playing the safety game. The thing that bugs me about today is that I think even with all the QS strength, Pozzato was strong enough to win but never even played his first card. He only followed Boonen, who everyone knew was marked. That ain’t gonna win RVV.
As for Chava, he was not able to hang on the last climbs. It isn’t a popularity contest. Great race by him though.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what Chava thought,
but he never was on equal footing, see how his own teammates chased him…
by Bruce Suomi on Apr 5, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true, he made the absolute wrong move going to Quick Step
but you have to think they weren’t chasing him down because they didn’t like him or didn’t want him to win.
They were looking at every possible situation and they played the numbers game in the end and sent Devolder up the road so it was 2 on one and the strongest one would then be able to get it.
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree,
and like I said above, it looked like Devolder was stronger on the day. My point is basically that I can see where Chavanel’s comments are coming from. I’m just trying to put myself in his shoes – I can imagine him asking “why is my teammate, who just bridged up to me, now attacking me?” In the end it’s all about the team winning…I’m just saying I wouldn’t feel so hot right not if I were Chavanel.
I also agree that it’s not a question of dislike. However, when you say “didn’t want him to win” – here I only agree to a certain point – after all, what race is more important, both to Devolder and Boonen, than the Tour des Flandres? ;) And hence you could say that they don’t want Chavanel, or anyone but themselves, to win. I don’t know…I know that in the end QS played it perfectly…but something just sticks in my craw about this last move.
by plinytheelder on Apr 5, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Devolder was the home boy?
I wonder how much of the QS playbook revolved around the fact that Devolder is Belgian and Chavanel is not?
Just wondering if (a) they had both options available and (b) this factored into it.
by muk on Apr 5, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
Chava was to work in the middle of the race and to force other teams to play their cards.
Devo & Boonan were then to react to this and destroy what is left of the field.
This is classic Lefevre tactics 101
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 5, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough,
but this clearly isn’t how Chavanel saw things.
by plinytheelder on Apr 5, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Devo good, but there will always be a "but" with these wins
I wish Boonen had been on another team. You have to be a hard man to win two RVV in a row, but I always feel these are slightly tainted for Devolder. When you are not marked as a defending champion and instead the other possible winners are looking at someone else, Devolder just can’t get no respect. Just think if Boonen had made the big moves Devo did. Think he would have been as relatively alone?
Two years in a row it looked like Boonen had form but team tactics made him sit. I want to watch a race with him blasting away and seeing if people can hang with him, win or lose. Maybe that is why I kind of blame Pippo for not giving it a go – it led to Boonen just sitting in. I can’t blame him or Devolder, but …
by Markk on Apr 5, 2009 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You want to se Boonen blasting away? How about next Sunday?
by ursula on Apr 5, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping
P-R last year and 2005 were awesome Tom Boonen wins. Actually I think Devolder would likely have won at least one of the last two years anyway, but ……
by Markk on Apr 5, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand
last week Boonen had a hard time bridging the last 10 secs to a breakaway. That’s telling. His form is maybe just short of 100%. But yes I agree with he above, I’m not counting him out for Roubaix, either. He may be just coming into his best form at the right time for that race.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Devo
I think we must not forget how well matched Devolder is for Flanders. Of the big threats to win he’s both the best climber and best time trialist- both of which he’s used two years in a row- Boonen or no, Chavanel or no. I think he’s a better match for Flanders than Boonen is.
by ursula on Apr 5, 2009 8:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Next year
Looking ahead here are some scenarios, all of which have everyone healthy:
1) Devo, Boonen, Chavanel all stay with QS.
It’s now clear that Devo must be marked in the last 40 km, regardless of what Boonen is doing. Both have to be marked in fact. Chavanel is the one with the opportunity to go away.
2) Devo leaves QS.
Devo’s style is actually one where he doesn’t need/use teammates as we will see once the summer and Grand Tours comes along. This of course is a two edged sword for the guy but it’s worse in a stage race than a one day classic. Sp whatever team he goes to, he will do a race much like we’ve seen the last two years, regardless of what other teams do. He would be most devastating on Saxo (imagine a Devo/Cancellara power duo) but they won’t take him I think as they have some talented youth about to surface. But the point is, Devo will be a major Flanders factor regardless of what team he goes to.
3) Boonen leaves QS, probably with one or two others.
Very few teams I think would take him as he’s expensive and demands a lot of support. Maybe Bweeg will enter the picture again. Maybe Lotto. At any rate, that team and Boonen would have the same problem- other teams marking him, though with the other teams needing to mark Devo/Chavanel.
Honestly I don’t see who would take him other than Lotto
by ursula on Apr 5, 2009 8:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good points
But I still wonder how you do not mark a guy who is the returning champion who did exactly the same thing last year by going on a long solo break. What about the possibility next year of another team similar to Cervelo forming and taking a strong guy like Devo as their centerpiece along with some other talent like Cervlo did.
by ncmussell on Apr 5, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anyone leaves, it'll be . . .
. . . Devo, and he will most likely got to Lotto as they need him more then anyone.
Once there, he will get chewed up, spit out, and realize that his success was not his alone but from the team he was in.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 5, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
if Devo goes (sort of) back to Astana and Demol. Lot of history there.
by ursula on Apr 5, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THinking that too
just conjecture… but fun to ponder/.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 6, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naw, they don’t pay for classics guys.
If he did he’ll have no support and just ad a bunch of top five finishes to his palmares ’ala Hincapie.
A move like that would be unwise.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 6, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Pozzato is scared of what people will say if he doesn't beat Boonen
then he’s never winning anything. You don’t win by being scared of being judged, you win by riding within yourself and believing in yourself. Devolder isn’t scared of people calling him crazy when he goes on crazy attacks, and his self belief helped him to victory these last two years I think, Pozzato also needs to believe that he can win it against Boonen, and if he doesn’t well at least he tried. Just my 2 cents on it.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 8:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey Derney man...
Can you drop me an email?
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on Apr 5, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cance man to watch next week?
Thinking over the video, if he has any form FC could be the guy to watch at Roubaix. He sure will have enough frustration built up. I thought we might get another epic bike toss, but him walking down the hill made me think he was storing some mental fuel up to be unleashed.
by Markk on Apr 5, 2009 10:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he wasn’t in the lead group over the Koppenberg . . . . .
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 5, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's because he busted his chain
Yeah, I’d say Cancellara will be very dangerous next Sunday.
by ursula on Apr 5, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went back and watched this climb again.
Cancellara was no where near the front of the main group as they started the climb when Boonan and Pozzato threw down.
If he was really able to do anything in this race, he would have been in that group of 20 with all the other big dogs.
Instead, he was waaaayyyyy back in the pack before his chain blew up.
I’d like to see him kick ass in P-R too, but I think he’s still too far off his peak to really do so.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 6, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Physical peaks are the least of Cancellara's troubles
He half-confided in one of the Sporza guys, they told he said he has one or two very serious personal problems. No details given. (Family-related, no? Wasn’t that reported earlier?)
by tedvdw on Apr 6, 2009 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe in the first 200 km
I doubt if he can go the whole distance already.
by Lopex on Apr 6, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree
Looks like he has made a full recovery from that injury to his right shoulder ;-)
by Lou... on Apr 7, 2009 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A team that can get Devo will have to be a wealthy team
a team that may want to bolster their classics squad, a team that has no problems picking riders that aren’t from the country its based in, maybe a team that already has a protected type rider who could either help Devo or allow him to attack and go away again. Anyone guess who I’m talking about here?
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope, guess again
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, hint, European team(not Belgian!)
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking Astana
but then I thought that if they are smart they will make sure to give Bert all the money he wants, Astana much rather have a Tour win then Flanders, just the team they are.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bruyneel gave up with the classics...
after all of those years with Hincapie
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't lay Bruyneel/Demol classics drought on George
He’s also had Boonen, Ekimov, Armstrong, Hamilton riding for him, each of which have won major classics in their careers for other teams. Add Hoste and Hincapie, two of the strongest classics hardmen without a major win, and the Bruyneel/Demol leadership have no excuses for their lack of wins.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Apr 6, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Astana doesnt think Devo can win the Tour.
He’s a he-man animal but he will not win a GT. Not that kinda rider, methinks.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh boy, imagine them letting Bert go to get Devo.....for a GT win.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tour of Flanders...Grand Tour Style
21 different courses within Flanders…
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somewhere Chris just wet himself
although Devo would benefit from some TT’s being in there as well.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I know....
I mean a total grand tour setup…but just in Flanders.
Like time trial over the Muur and Bosberg into Ninove…it would be classic.
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed, but it better not sacrifice the Giro!
on a more serious and realistic note, how about a Flanders Worlds? I know Belgians say Flanders is their World Championship but it would be thrilling. Then again, the Belgians would dominate, maybe given a good test from the Italians.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh it would be thrilling...
And it has happened before. I don’t see why they always have to have the worlds in more Southern Europe now. I mean they should send it to Flanders and set up some crazy hard course
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing with Astana is Demol who is close to Devo
I think you are right Phil that if Devo leaves QS it could well be Katusha, which has a Belgian presence.
But I don’t think Astana getting Devo means they lose Contador.
by ursula on Apr 5, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I think Astana rather not lose Brajkovis then get Devo
or someone like him. Really I just don’t see Devo going to a team that values the classics so lowly. Just as it would be ludicrous for him to go to CdE.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Brajkovic
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The old guys
I don’t know how long Bruyneel will stay interested in running a team but they could create some money by letting a couple of their older guy’s contracts expire. Kloden, Horner, Rubiera, Levi (though not this offseason I think).
by ursula on Apr 5, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possibility
but I still see Astana as a team that will than look to get some young stage racers in their place. For instance Uran or someone like that.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 6, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that is where Katusha fits in for Devo
Since they have a couple Belgians already…
It will be an interesting off season for Devolder for sure. But before that I wonder if he’ll be any more successful leading the QS juggernaut [/sarcasm] at stage races?
by ursula on Apr 6, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the big question for him is what now?
what does he do after April. Last year he did nothing worth mentioning, will he be able to muster more results together this year? Or not lose 20 minutes going up Ventoux?
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 6, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would Devo leave QS
when he now wins the race he is the most motivated for? Unless everyone else left, leaving a weak squad, or unless he deludes himself into thinking he can win a GT, I don’t see a good reason.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh i don't know...he has everything he needs.
I just like the guessing game
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. Well, yes indeed I can understand that.
Makes it fun!
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
plus I’m not saying he will, just weighing the options if he does.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats why I never understood why Tom Boonen would talk to Boygues Telecom
they have like no money…well for a guy like him
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good lawd that's a lotta $$$$$'s
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 time Flanders winners deserve to get payed a lot
and I mean a lot
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True!
And that’s why Chava may be working for him and/or Boonen again in the next RVV!
Chavanel was great today, taking one for the team. But I don’t see him ever winning Flanders, on any team. Sub-classics, yes, many.
Next year Devo will be so heavily marked, though. Time to change objectives? Maybe the Worlds? Lombardia? Roubaix? I dunno but after 2 in a row nothing more to prove there, go for another hard race.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roubaix is his best shot
or maybe a race like the TdS, but I doubt someone who has won 2 mouments will make a regular PT event a major priority. P-R should be his next goal, and that may be were he might want to find a new team as well, just maybe.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree with that. P-R is a power/selection/attrition race. Suits him.
Epescially with the new confidence he must have now. If I was the DS I’d give that a go, then bench him more or less until the Worlds and Lombardia.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, problem with Lombardia is that he would have to beat Cunego
somewhat impossible it seems, and Quickstep doesn’t have a strong team for that type of race(oh great, now it sounds like I want Devo to leave Q’s again, unintentional)
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hah. Good point, Cunego is so good there. But riders do learn their lessons sometimes.
To me, nothing is a shoe-in for Cunego now at Lombardia. He will be so marked now. I could imagine 6 or 8 different guys who could take Lombardia this year.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, meant more as a joke, although if he wins this year than it won't be
but I would pick several other riders, a bunch really, before I would pick Devo at Lombardia. He won’t be able to ride away like this because there would be stronger teams then Q’s. Then if it comes to a sprint, well Devo sprinting surely isn’t the prettiest sight in cycling.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, No, No! wow, I guess it's not as easy as I guessed
one more hint: they had a rider in the top 5 today(that eliminates about everyone)
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep, the richest team in the peloton
I would say they have plenty of cash to get him if they tried, and if he is OK with going to a Russian team, not saying it’s the best fit or that it will happen but I could see it. I think it would help Pippo too.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pippo would give him his Ferrari...
if he got somebody like Devo….but we know Devolder wouldnt with all of these RVV’s he is getting
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And his hair gel
which is more valuable to him than a Ferrari.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the only thing that Devolder would have do to be on Katusha then
would be to grow a nice thick mullet
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 5, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen Sergey Ivanov yet?
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, quite bald
so Devo fits in very well between Pippo and Ivanov.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
G'night people
Been a fun day. Great week to come.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 5, 2009 11:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tour of the Basque Country tomorrow!
I am scaring myself in how excited I am for that race. But looking at the field and parcours might explain why. Oh yeah, then there’s G-W and P-R as well, oh and the Ardennes, and of course the Giro, and I will now stop before I run outside and run into an Elk heard because I’m delirious in excitement.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 5, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be careful about that running into an elk herd stuff!
Got my Basque Country stage 1 live thread cued up and ready to go!
by ursula on Apr 5, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice, although I think I will have to catch it it on demand tomorrow
I need a long nights sleep, for some reason I can’t quite remember, I stood up very early today.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
by Phil H. on Apr 6, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure your analysis is correct
A Dutch commentator talked to a QuickStep DS about their plans. The QS step guy made it very clear that QS step had completely changed their tactics over the last few years. Before it would be a support team for Boonen, they would do anything (chase down breakaways etc) to bring Boonen to the finish in the front group. There Boonen would win the sprint and all was well. Boonen was surely the big man, his face was all over the team bus, he indeed was mr. QuickStep himself.
However, a number of factors led them to change their strategy. Boonen not winning all sprints anymore was one, the increasing strength of other teams probably was two (impossible to chase all others down with just one team). They are really a collective now, everyone should be able to go for a win now and then. The team bus has a photo of the whole team on it now. In race they don’t want to be the other teams domestiques anymore. They try to get someone relevant (so not Lloyd like Cervelo did yesterday) in every break and if the situation up front doesn’t please them they’ll try to bridge alone instead of pulling the whole peloton with them. Uptil now this strategy has been quite effective I’d say.
I don’t think Boonen has big problems with this. Why would he? He knows he is not the fastest man around anymore. If QS would have worked it’s ass off it could have delivered Boonen to the finishline yesterday with 20-30 riders in tow. Slight chance of Boonen taking first place at best. If his ego would have been an issue he would have fought Pozzato in the sprint yesterday. But instead he just rolled in, happy with the team win. He did his job perfectly.
So QuickStep has a sound strategy for the classics now that give a high chance of success for all their studs. Noone will win all races but eventually all will win something. I don’t think Boonen or Devolder or even Chavanel have any incentive to go to another team.
It is interesting to see how the other teams will react. The other teams have not found a remedy for the QS strategy yet. They’ll have to copy QS tactics or a couple of the strong teams should join forces to chase down QS breaks. I’m not sure the last option would work. All this could mean the 1-spearhead teams will be at a disadvantage against the multi-pronged attacks of other teams (see TdF 2008). There are just too much potential contenders around nowadays (look at the number of rookies in the 30-men chase group yesterday).
by Lopex on Apr 6, 2009 3:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just remember . . .
This is really not a new tactic for Lefever as he actually refined it with Mapei.
1996 Paris-Roubaix
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 6, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting take,
thanks for this
by plinytheelder on Apr 6, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
LOL, this was the post I was going to write about the race. But you did it better and more quickly. This Ronde was perfect team tactics from QuickStep. Most teams only have one guy who can win, and everyone knows it. QuickStep has several – that makes it damn hard for the other teams to figure out who to cover them.
Pozzato had great legs – though he claimed after they weren’t – but what could he do with so many QuickSteps swarming the place.
No way Boonen leaves a team like that. His turn will come.
by gavia on Apr 6, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I thought about making it a fan post but I didn’t have the time to have a really good look at it. It is interesting to dig a little deeper I think. The other teams will have to come up with something. Although the tactics were more effective in the absence of big contenders like Ballan and Cancellara (Yeah, I know he was there. But he might as well not have been).
The Mapei experience indeed makes it an old strategy too. Lefevre is certainly spending his 9.6 mln euros well if you look at the classics.
I am very interested in what QS will do in the grand tours. They used to be TdF meanest breakaway hunters but Boonen’s loss of speed and the rise of Cavendish might give them second thoughts about this. If they forget about GC and the sprints they could be a great team of stage hunters. The peloton will go crazy if Chav, Devolder and (maybe even) Boonen take turns in breaking away. I guess that would be THR’s nightmare.
by Lopex on Apr 6, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're right
And Boonen can go from being king of the universe at 25 to being a good, generous teammate while still in his prime, then he’s a better man than most. Honestly, this isn’t knowable to me, so maybe he’s truly tranquillo. But that’s unusual for any sport, to have two big winners willing to share the spotlight when they could have all the glory on another team.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 6, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might be wrong of course
But could Boonen really have all the glory on another team? He’ll be a marked man everywhere in the cobbles. He will be fighting Zabel’s war in the sprints. In what kind of team would he really start shining again? I can’t really think of an alternative but I’m relatively new to the scene and I’m willing to learn.
At the moment his chances are increasing with Devolders and Chav rise in reputation. Maybe next time more riders will focus on Devolder and Boonen can be the one to escape.
by Lopex on Apr 6, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, now I really want to write about tactics
Okee, I think we can stand one more Ronde post. But it’ll probably take me until tomorrow to do it.
by gavia on Apr 6, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't wait
to see that nice tactic talks pic again.
by Lopex on Apr 7, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another way of looking at it
In Belgium Boonen still is the king of the universe. Him being the big man in the race who gets to decide who is allowed to win and who is not. Belgian fans are way different than American fans. It is not only about who wins. Belgian fans have a very good knowledge of cycling and the tactics it involves. They can appreciate Boonen’s strength and admire his teamwork more because of this. With two wins in RVV and PR each he is the reigning king of the cobbles.
by Lopex on Apr 7, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's give all credit to Devolder
It feels like it gets a bit lost in the QS-tactics debate and the Boonen vs. Pippo-debate. Devolder was just the strongest, hardest racing man on the course. I’m betting that if he hadn’t gotten away on the Eikenmolen he would have just left Boonen, Pippo and others in the dust on the Muur.
by Jens on Apr 6, 2009 3:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, agreed.
After I’d recovered from the shock, horror and frustration… in the final kilometers, I couldn’t help but think “Well done, young man. Very well done.”… just like last year, LOL.
(’cept the kit made it just that bit more impressive last year ;-) …)
by Lou... on Apr 6, 2009 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
but there’s something dissatisfying about how it happened. If Devolder attacks on the Muur and we can see him crack Pippo, then there are no questions asked.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 6, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you, but the source of the dissatisfaction has to be Pozzato
At least he was man enough to admit that Boonen was stronger than he was on Sunday, but if you want a big win, you have to make a big move. Sitting on Boonen is a losing proposition when a sprint requires QSI to set it up.
In order for Pippo to win, he had to either get a gap on Boonen and attack solo, or attack with Boonen and hope he can win the sprint. Pippo did neither and thus doesn’t deserve to asterisk Devolder’s big day.
If his chances of winning requires Boonen to be a teammate like Oscarlito or Aitor, he ain’t gonna win.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Apr 6, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ack
When I typed Oscarlito, I clearly was thinking Cunego. [facepalm]
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Apr 7, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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