L'equipe article about one of Armstrong's doping tests...
by guidemd on Apr 6, 2009 2:22 PM EDT
122 comments
I really hate to be the one to mention this, because it could all just be the supposed witch-hunt /out-to-get-Lance, but there's an article showing up at L'equipe for which I'd appreciate some better translation ... with the limited time I have on my lunch break i'm resorting to Google, it seems as though the controller for March 17 test reported Lance to the UCI and WADA because of his attitude during a doping control? and then L'Equipe goes on to speculate (without any information about what actually happened) that this could be an infringement of the World Anti-doping code? I thought April Fool's was last week ...
Gav here, with the translation:
Will the 24th antidoping control given by Lance Armstrong since his return to competition was on the 17th of March mark a turning point in the season of the American? According to the AFLD, the Astana rider had inappropriate behavior during the surprise control to the point that the supervising doctor prepared a report which was transmitted to the UCI and WADA on the 30th of March. The AFLD has nevetheless refused to detail the behavior under discussion.
During the anti-doping control at Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat, the representative of the AFLD collected samples of urine, blood, and hair. "The UCI is not competent to judge this case. When there is an out-of-competition control carried out by a national agency, the agency is competent," declared the press chief of the UCI, Enrico Carpani. The AFLD awaits a response from the UCI, before examining whehter the attitude of the rider consitutes an infraction in the anti-doping code.
So, basically, in the view of the doctor who supervised the out of competition test, Armstrong acted inappropriately, though the AFLD has so far declined to detail what exactly happened. The AFLD has forwarded a report to WADA and the UCI both to inform them of what occured and also, as I understand it, to receive clarification. Did Armstrong's behavior - whatever it was - constitute a rules violation? This remains an open question, according to the report here.
Update. According to this report, Armstrong closed the door on the testers, and made them wait 30 minutes before providing the samples. According to WADA rules, the athlete must remain in sight of the representatives for the duration of the test. So, this 30 minute delay, if it indeed occured, is likely the "inappropriate behavior" in question.
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I posted this already in the fanshots, but they all take L’équipe to task for not providing more precise info about the “behaviour.”
In any case I don’t think L’équipe speculates on any possible infraction, they state that the AFLD is awaiting a response from the UCI before examining whether this might be an infraction.
by plinytheelder on Apr 6, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Video now available
of Lance receiving the AFLD testers. As far as I can see they never even get in to do the testing. Clearly inapproriate behaviour here.
by Jens on Apr 6, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That made my day!
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
by Frinking on Apr 6, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hehe
although I like Frenchies
formerly known as cyclingchallenge
by Willj on Apr 6, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
if Lance farted in their general direction then ….
that is clearly an infraction
formerly known as cyclingchallenge
by Willj on Apr 6, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Particularly if he then proceeded to taunt them a second time
More Muur...
by Jimbo... on Apr 6, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://autres-sports.le10sport.com/une-affaire-armstrong-_201865_a
This article says that he shut the door on the testers after signing the notification form, and then kept them waiting for 30 minutes
by William H on Apr 6, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It takes him 30 minutes to Tweet that the testers have arrived again?
by Jens on Apr 6, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comment of the week?
We’re off to a good start.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 6, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. let us quote
by TheFigurehead on Apr 6, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, this is interesting
According to the rules, the athlete must remain under observation of the anti-doping representatives at all times during the test. So, that 30 minutes becomes the crux of the matter.
The UCI press comment says, pretty much, “not our problem, you’re on your own” to the French. No comment from WADA, so far.
by gavia on Apr 6, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is interesting
do you have a link to the UCI press comment?
by plinytheelder on Apr 6, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hang on, looking...
The UCI comment is in the l’equipe article above – Carpani is the UCI guy.
by gavia on Apr 6, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no press release
The only UCI comment is from Carpani in the l’Equipe article. They say basically, an out of competition test by the AFLD is the AFLD’s business, not theirs.
Heh.
by gavia on Apr 6, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UCI says don't look at us?
That makes me wonder again, why and on what authority does the AFLD do out of competition tests on non-Frenchies with a non-French licence on a non-French team?
by tedvdw on Apr 6, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
National ADA's
The AFLD also did out-of-competition testing on foreign riders before last year’s Tour as part of their profiling effort. Basically, UCI tests during races, national ADA’s seem to have full run outside races. This is how, for ex., CONI took blood samples during last year’s Tour. Apparently, once a rider shows up on their soil, the national ADA can test them out of competition.
Not saying that’s a good thing, just that’s how it’s currently working.
by gavia on Apr 6, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a translation of that story:
On March 17, Lance Armstrong withdrew for half an hour from an unannounced control visit from the AFLD (French Anti-Doping Agency). There could be official consequences.
Currently away from the road racing circuit because of a collarbone fracture, Lance Armstrong nevertheless keeps people talking about him. But, as is (too?) often the case, his name comes up in the context of suspicions. According to the information that RMC has received, the Astana racer partially withdrew from an unannounced drug test. The facts: on the 17th of March, a doctor from the AFLD presented himself at the American’s residence at Beaulieu-sur-Mer on the Cote d’Azur. Armstrong signed the test notification sheet … before shutting the door on the doctor, who had to wait half an hour before being able to obtain urine, blood and hair samples.
What did Armstrong do during those 30 minutes? Did he just want to express his annoyance about yet another drug test (Armstrong states that he had already tested 24 times since September), or did he use the interval for more suspect purposes? The drug tester decided to submit a report to the AFLD. The World Anti-Doping Agency has stated that if "the athlete stays under the continuous observation of the drug tester, he risks nothing. If he withdraws from the test, this can fall under article 2.3 of the world anti-doping code" but also states that "rulings on each case fall under the jurisdiction of the national anti-doping agency or the appropriate international federation for that sport". Both the AFLD and/or the UCI therefore have the option of starting an official investigation into these events.
by GreylockGrinder on Apr 6, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
30 minutes
Bless him! More than enough time to get rid of the blood, urine and hair they came to collect I would think! Make enough fuss though and you might get a court order from the UCI saying the testers can barge straight in when they want. This should satisfy the offended tester who was having a bad day.
Personally – him being available for an hour a day is enough for me – so you cant moan about being made to wait 30 minutes.
Shame on L’Equipe! Do PR saying concentrating less on doping stories and only doing the ones that matter and then publish this.
by gbt on Apr 6, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We have like 230 riders..
If everybody takes an hour an a half to pee in a f.. I mean peathing they spend 115 hours waiting.. They are with 2 so that’s 230 f.. I mean hours…. And that’s just waiting….
But I forgot… It’s Lance
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
by Frinking on Apr 6, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
He has to follow rules no matter how many times he is tested, simple as that gbt.
by EuroPeloton on Apr 6, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
24th uninvited guest in six months?
The odds of them eventually showing up at, um, an inopportune time are pretty much 100%, no?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 6, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hey come on
is it the doctor’s fault that Lance had just sat down to watch “everybody loves raymond”?
by plinytheelder on Apr 6, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just went tothe Astana website... nothing there
Lots of love for Devo though.
Dare I go to Livestrong?
by ursula on Apr 6, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I figured he's have twittered something already.
Man, something tells me this is really going to get ugly. Not in the sense of exploding into a huge case – it’ll probably go away in 2 days – but I bet it’ll still be damn ugly.
by plinytheelder on Apr 6, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is basically a dispute over people being stupid, please let it go away
The AFLD are too stupid to realize that Lance is bound to get pissy about them showing up every 37 minutes.
Lance is stupid not to have realized that this is exactly what he was going to face. Also if he’s been tested 24 times in the recent past he knows the drill for a test and that shutting the door for 30 minutes is going to be an issue.
Please stop being stupid, people.
by Jens on Apr 6, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please let me be stupid...
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
by Frinking on Apr 6, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding?
This is traffic gold. GOLD!
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 6, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Ya like how I front paged that thing? ;-)
by gavia on Apr 6, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shameless!
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 6, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't wait for the Lance & Johan Damage Control Show!
Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.
by Josenka on Apr 6, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If he just said his mistress was getting dressed
then the French would understand (at least their leaders certainly would)
vaguely off topic but I always enjoyed how “evil” this UCI guy looked (from 2008 Tour de Romandie … he measured the TT bikes)
<img src=“”http://www.flickr.com/photos/willj/2452165205/" title=“Garcia and UCI guy by will_davies, on Flickr”>
"/>
formerly known as cyclingchallenge
by Willj on Apr 6, 2009 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's hilarious
the contrast is awesome too
by plinytheelder on Apr 6, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to say
which one is the most frightening.
by Monty. on Apr 7, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From another forum:
“Pretty funny that a French agency is complaining about someone else’s bad attitude.”
by tedvdw on Apr 6, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lance and L'Equipe
now it really seems like old times again.
by Katiek on Apr 6, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
After all these years, they still deserve each other.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Apr 6, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another opportunity
to drop an appropriate link.
by Sui Juris on Apr 6, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's be serious people!
These Lance and AFLD need one thing. You know what.
Now since they don’t know that, I suggest we pass the hat here to raise money to send them… Snuggies.
by ursula on Apr 6, 2009 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes! Snuggies for all!
Team Red Shorts--Let us show you what we've got
by majope on Apr 6, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bottom line
is that Lance himself has made a huuuuge deal about proving himself doping free. I’ll be interested to see if he Twitters about this but right now it looks like another stumble to go with his faceplant on the Catlin testing program. If he truly wants to prove himself then the actions have to back up the words.
My opinion is that this grand attempt at transparency on his part is overwhelmingly focused on setting up a future political career. I think he very much wants to be Governor of Texas someday so he has to emerge from this comeback with a net publicity gain. On that note, this excellent interview with antidoping researcher Michael Ashenden is another big setback…
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden
by mysterion on Apr 6, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Very interesting article
More Muur...
by Jimbo... on Apr 6, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks, very interesting
the comeback might take a sudden halt…
by Bruce Suomi on Apr 6, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good points
if nothing else this is incredibly unsavvy by Armstrong
by plinytheelder on Apr 6, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like there's a cottage industry in people that have handled Armstrong's urine...
Dude... why WOULDN'T Thor ride the chicken?
by crashdan on Apr 6, 2009 7:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dear Lance,
You really want to get back at the sample takers? Don’t shut the door in their faces. Just eat lots and lots of asparagus.
Best wishes,
M.
Team Red Shorts--Let us show you what we've got
by majope on Apr 6, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I dont see what the big deal is
Is 30 minutes really going to make a difference on whether he tests positive or not?
I can understand having to watch him while he’s giving his urine sample so that he cant switch it, but it shouldnt matter if he needs to do something for a bit before the test actually starts
by d rod on Apr 6, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
30 minutes could be enough time
for a rider to do something that could affect his test results, such as ingesting some sort of masking agent, or drinking enough water to dilute his urine.
by Tifosa on Apr 6, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but one can't mask a hair sample...
short of depilatory cream.. I’m betting fresh drawn blood is hard to fake too.
by Fred Marx on Apr 7, 2009 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just what do you think would happen if the AFDL starts to test Pozzatos' hair?
All that gel may blow up the machine!
Hahaha . . .
Not to mention the verbal and physical abuse the scientists may receive from the his fans which are more, um; passionate about his quaft then the AFDL might actually realize.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the AFDL should just hunt down Karpets then for some hair samples
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 7, 2009 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With his dew . . . .
. . . I’ve always been surprised that CONI didn’t stop him t the boarder and take him to for a trimming.
Not that mulletts are bad or anything . . . ok, yeah they are.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you might want to
read the article that was linked above. It’s long but very informative and interesting. Apparently you can affect both the urine and blood samples with 30 minutes time. They collect all 3 for a reason – if all they needed was hair, they’d only collect hair.
And what do they do in Levi’s case for hair?
by yeehoo on Apr 7, 2009 5:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever seen him without his shirt on?
That man’s packing a forest!
Hahahaha . . . .
Ok, that was just a joke, honest.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Results from hair tests are not accepted by the WADA or UCI
From the ESPN article: Hair testing is still relatively unusual in anti-doping efforts. Results of hair testing are not accepted by the UCI or WADA, but French officials recently conducted testing of athletes in several sports to try to detect the presence of steroid precursors like DHEA.
I wonder how each side will spin this, or who throws out the first spin.
by pigilito on Apr 7, 2009 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
Hair sample, sure. But 30 minutes is sufficient time to alter hematocrit and do other sorts of manipulation and masking.
Which is the problem with this sort of thing: There may be a perfectly innocent explanation for the delay. Or, he may have been up to no good. This is the reason for the introduction of chaperons in post-race testing – it removes this uncertainty.
by gavia on Apr 7, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're forgetting the yucky story of the women
who, um, switched urine with someone else, internally. Can’t do that with blood or hair, obviously, which makes this a bit silly.
by JFS_PGH on Apr 9, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance was definitely
NOT getting enough L’Equipe ink, hence the 30 minute wait. Remember, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Sometimes I wonder...why is that Frisbee getting bigger?...and then it hits me.
by bethie on Apr 6, 2009 7:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The thing is . . .
. . . there is an assumed authority the AFDL is demonstrating, but do they really have the legal authority to randomly show up to a non-french athlete and demand a random test of urine, blood, and hair(!) any time they want, and of a frequency which is open just because this athlete is currently on French soil?
It seems the UCI has not given them the authorization to do so, or they would now be processing sanctions against LA.
So, is the AFDL authorized by the WADA to act in this fashion?
I cannot find this information anywhere.
I’m not talking about assumed, or events that has been done in the past that can be referenced as precedents; but rather actual documented guidelines that stated the AFDL does indeed have the authority to operate in this fashion?
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 2:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would guess this is your answer
Riders shall also be subject to Out-of-Competition Testing initiated and conducted by any other Anti-
Doping Organization that is so authorized under the Code:
…………..
7. The National Anti-Doping Organization of any country where the Rider is present.
by Jens on Apr 7, 2009 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but . . .
. . . look farther down the page -
Unauthorized Testing
14. If a Rider refuses a test by an Anti-Doping Organization that has no authority to test under these Anti-
Doping Rules or under the Code, such refusal shall not constitute an anti-doping violation under these
Anti-Doping Rules.
Ay; remember to keep to the ‘Code’. Arrrg. .. .
Hahaha . . . .
Which brings me back to my point –
Does the AFDL actually have the authority to demand these tests?
It appears the UCI does not think so.
I cannot locate anywhere if they clearly do, or do not.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The subject does seem rather hazy but...
doesn’t the AFDL hold all of the drug tests for all of France?
I know that they and the UCI have had their run-in’s in the past but I think that they probably do have the authority for any professionals in France that are being submitted to tests.
It would seem that if they didn’t have any authority to demand the tests, then any pro would be able to do ‘the Lance’
by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 7, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the UCI is just wanting to get all the facts before they respond with a definitive statement?
Maybe this will all become clear tomorrow?
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No buts!
Jens did the right amount of snippage. The AFLD really is the national anti-doping organisation of France, so they do indeed have the right to do out of competition tests on any rider on French soil.
Also, it’s AFLD (Agence française de lutte contre le dopage), not AFDL.
by tedvdw on Apr 7, 2009 5:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be really interesting tho
It it was AFDL who did the testing.
No longer that I call them tights, I call them freedom ware.
by TheFigurehead on Apr 7, 2009 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s my point right there!
You are assuming the AFLD has authorization because that would be a logical conclusion, but in fact is it actually stated anywhere?
After the kerfuffle that occurred last July and now they are even performing tests outside of accepted protocols, I am just wondering if the UCI is going to back them up on this or not.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not ass-huming anything, only inferring
Fact 1: National ADAs are authorised to do out of competition tests on riders in their country.
Fact 2: Teh LANCE was in France.
Fact 3: AFLD is the national ADA of France.
Inference: AFLD did a legitimate out of competition test on teh LANCE.
by tedvdw on Apr 7, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, correct.
National ADA’s have authority on their soil.
by gavia on Apr 7, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm having trouble following your argument, to be honest -
why would Armstrong, or anyone for that matter, deal with them if they didn’t have authorization? The only thing that is in question, to my mind, is the relationship between the two bodies (AFLD and UCI) – i.e. how do they cooperate, what does one do with the other’s recommendations, etc. (There must be rules about this too, I’m just ignorant of them.) In terms of “non-French athlete,” it seems pretty clear that when a citizen of one country is in the territory of another country, he’s subject to the laws of that country.
You bring up the following passage from the code:
14. If a Rider refuses a test by an Anti-Doping Organization that has no authority to test under these Anti-Doping Rules or under the Code, such refusal shall not constitute an anti-doping violation under these Anti-Doping Rules.
But this, to me, seems like a moot point, since the AFLD does have authority here.
But perhaps I’m missing something about your argument? Forgive me if I’m misrepresenting it.
by plinytheelder on Apr 7, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I stated, everyone is going with the logical conclusion to which I really do not disagree with.
I was simply looking toward an explanation as to why the UCI was not reacting to a breach in testing protocols.
It seems, as this story has unfolded, L’equipe may have embellished what actually occurred in order to make seem more provocative and since LA had taken 20-30 minutes in order to call the UCI so he could confirm this test was valid, they felt all was on the up ’n up.
Or so it seems.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the point here is
The party that does the testing is responsible to follow up on those tests. If , for instance, AFLD have a positive it is up to them to initiate proceedings on having the rider sanctioned. Only after them having completed the legal proceedings with b-sample test, hearings, defense-arguments and so on, and returning a verdict including a sanction does the matter come into the hands of the UCI. They are not part of the process until that point.
Before we have seen them bumbling in, making statements and whatever when they had no business doing so. They are now doing the smart thing and staying clear until it’s their turn to speak. I wouldn’t be surprised if the road to getting to this point included Anne Gripper talking very loudly and Pat McQauid wearing a gimp-suit.
by Jens on Apr 7, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting take, thanks for this
by plinytheelder on Apr 7, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kerfuffle?
I like it. I’ll have to incorporate to add that to my vocabulary, if you don’t mind.
right click, refresh
by itswells on Apr 7, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to ESPN
Armstrong decided to take a shower while Bruyneel spent some time stalling, I mean calling the UCI. When I first heard this story I thought…the one thing that would make me very suspicious would be if Armstrong took a shower before giving a hair sample.
The AFLD’s authority would probably only extend to races in France and Armstrong should watch himself so he doesn’t build up a case for excluding him from the Tour.
by mysterion on Apr 7, 2009 5:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks for posting this -
(as a side note -
[Bruyneel] said the tester was cordial, but spoke accented English. Armstrong asked Bruyneel, who speaks fluent French, to interpret.
Armstrong wants the French doctor in France to speak English? And how does Armstrong not speak French after, what, 10 years total living in France? Anyways…)
Another story in L’équipe , Bruyneel, who I guess was at Armstrong’s house at the time, says it was a 20-min. wait, here’s a quote from him:
I asked the doctor to wait so that I could make sure everything was in order. A few days earlier there had been some people hanging around near the house. I think it’s normal to take precautions before letting someone into your house. So I called McQuaid (UCI president) who put Anne Gripper (UCI antidoping official) on the line. She told me that everything was OK. I went back to the doctor and told him that everything was in order. (…) He came in, did his test, and everything went fine, it was all very cordial. (…) It’s as though something always has to be happening around Lance Armstrong.
by plinytheelder on Apr 7, 2009 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't include the joke of the day...
Armstrong stated or Bruyneel.. He had a terrible accent.. I though he would have monsters of Urine, blood an Air……….
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
by Frinking on Apr 7, 2009 6:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
well here’s a funny line from J.-F. Bernard, who, at the end of an article discussing Chavanel’s participation at Paris-Roubaix, says “I only participated once in that race, to replace a sick teammate, without any real preparation. I saw the devil but not the finish line.”
by plinytheelder on Apr 7, 2009 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice to see Jeff is still being quoted
He was one of my favorite riders from the 80s.
by pigilito on Apr 7, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha That's funny!
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
by Frinking on Apr 7, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’d probably get confirmation before letting anyone in my house also.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how does Armstrong not speak French after, what, 10 years total living in France? Anyways…)
I thought Armstrong lived in Girona, Spain while in Europe. Am I wrong?
by ZoeRochelle on Apr 7, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He used to live in Nice, France for many years.
I’m not sure if it was 10, but I do know it was for a long time.
by Ryan_Liles on Apr 7, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen Lance being interviewed in French
so he speaks French to a sufficient enough level to do an interview with the media, at least about how he did in a bike race, but there is a big difference between that level of fluency (pretty low) and what one needs to have an intelligible conversation with a doctor, or in this case perhaps, an intelligible legal conversation with a doctor.
More Muur...
by Jimbo... on Apr 7, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've seen that too,
although 9 out of 10 interviews he did here were in english – another reason he never endeared himself here – lived here, spoke french, but almost always english in the interviews. They prefer the guys who are a little looser and stumble around in broken french – way more endearing.
by yeehoo on Apr 7, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I definitely understand that (the more endearing bit). But as you feel more defensive (as he most certainly did), I can’t really begrudge a retreat into your own language.
(Lord knows that if I could find a way to feel like less of a dumbass in Spanish, I’d be much better with it.)
by Sui Juris on Apr 7, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i can understand both sides there
i remember vino being interviewed – man the media loved that guy here – wore his heart on his sleeve – did the interviews in his broken french with a huge accent. Very friendly, cried on camera, the works. Oh well, we know how that turned out.
by yeehoo on Apr 8, 2009 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
same with Lemond
his French is amazing – terrible accent, full of grammatical errors…and totally endearing because the guy is going for it – it’s as though he’s able to get his point across all the better for the mistakes. This weird love of the language comes through the whole time.
by plinytheelder on Apr 8, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You worry too much
You get two types of people who learn a foreign language, those who do it the college way, know the history, the right books etc, but struggle to order a coffee, and those who go over there and pick things up from the natives by working on a building site.
You just need to get drunk a few times and start telling dirty jokes with lots of mistakes.
by Monty. on Apr 8, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
si smile, point, laugh, shrug and smile some more
and learn how to say thank you and please and repeat.
works in most countries
by lyne on Apr 8, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weird that the objection
seems to be that the AFLD guy was speaking ‘accented’ English.
Lance couldn’t understand him because he spoke English with a French accent?
Odd.
by Mark T1979 on Apr 7, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Some possibilities:
A. Because of the sensitivity of anything and everything surrounding doping, Lance wanted to be very, very sure there were no misunderstandings on either side.
B. Lance was feeling pissy.
C. Both.
People say I'm cocky or arrogant when I win, but they don't see the deep self-loathing when I lose a race I think I should have won. It really hurts me, you know. --Mark Cavendish
by majope on Apr 7, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going with the very sane A. option from majope right above.
Of course he didn’t object to the accent but in any important dealing it’s better have both parties talking their native language and have an excellent translator sit in between.
by tedvdw on Apr 7, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but the translating has nothing to do with the 30 minute delay
the doping agent didn’t complain about having an interpreter – sounded like bruyneel was already there. The agent complained about waiting outside for 30 minutes with armstrong not in sight – and thus against the rules. And then the shower thing. Someone comes over and you can’t wait til they leave to take your shower? You leave them outside while you take a shower? Not logical, not cool. Even if they do have an accent, it’s not cool. And once again, against the rules. Called around to make sure he wasn’t an axe-murderer? I donno. Im’ sorry, i just can’t swallow it. I think lance was either just being pissy because he’s angry with the french and he’s angry with anti-doping authorities or he was really taking the time to mask something. I just can’t believe the spin, it doesn’t make sense.
The “french” version – really the agency version – is very simple and makes perfect sense. Guy comes to do control. Has door shut in face and subject is out of sight for 30 minutes – against the rules. Decides to file report. Doing his job. I mean what else should he have done? Maybe for a french hero he’d have looked the other way, but come on. If lance had just cooperated normally there’d be no story – assuming he didn’t need to do any masking in that 30 minutes.
By the way, i can believe either case B or case C above. But in case A, he could have still let the guy in and dealt with the test using an interpreter and taken his shower after the guy left. The problem again was not the delay but the being out of sight once the random test agent showed up. Kind of kills the point of a random test if the subject is allowed to run off and do his masking while the agent waits outside.
As far as not believing the guy was really an agent? Come on. He must have had all his papers with him. I mean if every cyclist used that excuse …. And what about lance? Is this his usual protocol for these tests – make the guy wait outside for 30 minutes? Seems we’d have heard about it before. Why this time? Not the first time he’s been tested and not the first time he’s been tested in a foreign country. The “most tested athlete in the world” doesn’t know the protocol? The spin just doesn’t make sense.
by yeehoo on Apr 7, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like you've already made up your mind before looking at both sides.
1. If he had a problem with waiting outside, why did he not note that on the paperwork?
2. “Trust but verify”. Someone like Lance has a lot of crazies coming after him. I don’t care what documentation someone had, I would always be calling, just to be sure.
3. Have you ever sat around in a sweaty, nasty kit after a long training ride? I would definitely want a shower. If the guy says it’s ok, I’m gonna take a shower…
by liteberer on Apr 7, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll admit, guilty. premature posting.
i’ve since seen the lance response. If the guy said yeah ok, go take a shower and then later reported him for disappearing – well obviously the agent is screwing up. In fact that is so obvious, i’m sure his story will be different. Who knows? One man’s word against the other. Who you gonna believe, a french or an american? Ha ha ha. No hope.
By the way, i wasn’t convinced armstrong was trying to mask doping – just that there is a good reason for that rule. I could just as easily believe he was being difficult with the obviously unwelcome “french guy”. I’m a bit incredulous about them not knowing the testing rules and so on. As far as calling around to see who the guy is and verifying the testing rules and so on – well no need to be out of his presence while doing that.
But perhaps the agent was totally incompetent. If lance’s version is true then the agent was behaving totally irrationally – either he should have not let lance go take a shower or he should have not reported a problem. Communication problem? But bruyneel was there so that doesn’t seem so likely.
anyway, enough already …
by yeehoo on Apr 8, 2009 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just can'd a reason why Lancr would doped himself..
Everything to lose and nothing to win.. Seroious.. Nobody expect him to win the Tour ot Giro..
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
by Frinking on Apr 7, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what are you, a
foreigner or something?!?
Of course Lance is going to win!
by Sui Juris on Apr 7, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't he so far ahead that he's in fact actually won them both already?
Or is he still in orbit waiting to make his move for the big finish?
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on Apr 7, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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