Poll: How Do You View The Killer?
by Chris Fontecchio on May 15, 2009 2:46 PM EDT
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I've been wrestling with how to style a post about the race's most fascinating character, Danilo Di Luca. The present maglia rosa has fought his way back into the conversation this year with another insurgent campaign -- possibly more doomed than 2007, but definitely more credible than his 2008 effort. Il Killer di Spoltore has been animating the Giro for most of the last five years, winning stages with flair, nearly costing Paolo Savoldelli his jersey in 2005 with a powerful escape (and towing Gilberto Simoni along), stealing the title in 2007 with a tremendously clever plan, then falling into disgrace before returning to animate some stages last year.
To me, the only thing separating Di Luca from being my favorite rider on the planet, hands down, is Oil for Drugs. The facts are pretty hard to ignore, and once you see a rider in this light you can never feel at ease with any more positive assessments of his on-bike accomplishments. That said, Di Luca is a special case for me. He is the first rider from the Mezzogiorno, and from Abruzzo, to win the Giro. I don't tend to personalize the North-South divide in Italy too much, but I know what it meant to my ancestors, so Di Luca's roots aren't irrelevant to my thinking. More than that, however, is the flair with which he rides. Di Luca is aggressive and intelligent, intense and regal, and got his nickname by knowing exactly how to finish a race. There are odd images of him: gently but firmly closing the door on Bettini in an uphill sprint; ascending a ramp of the Col du Finistere with his hands off the bars, simultaneously leading a ferocious attack and eating a power bar; winning stages in places like Montevergine with his trademark dash; and engineering a nearly-miraculous stab at glory on Monte Pora last year with two teammates. He's never dull, that's for sure, at least until the press questions start.
So what would you call your overriding impression of the guy? And as I ask this, I have a request. Oil-for-drugs is one of the choices, but I like to refrain from speculating about who's on what right now. People are entitled to their suspicions or lack thereof, and it's not worth debating. Just a request. Here ya go:
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It's funny how time changes one's perspective
Long before oil for drugs, the ASO tried to keep Il Killer out of le tour because of doping issues. At the time, I wrote him off. I couldn’t see the cyclist for the allegations.
Now that pretty much everyone has been implicated in some way or another, I cannot reasonably justify treating DiLuca differently than anyone else. He’s not a personal favorite, I’ll never love him the way I love Bettini, but he has done great things on a bicycle that cannot be denied.
While I’d love to live in a world where virtue is rewarded with victory and vice with shame and dishonor, that ain’t the world we live in. Acting like the world is the way we want it to be rather than the way it is causes a lot more problems than being cynical.
So, even though I’ve always viewed Rebellin through the "he hasn’t been caught yet " lens, that isn’t fair. So until whatever passes for due process in this sport says otherwise, he’s just as clean as [insert your favorite rider’s name here] and [insert the name of that rider you don’t like and suspect has been cheating all along}.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
Okay, that was definitely one of those freudian penises
When I wrote “Rebellin” I clearly meant “DiLuca”. But as you can guess, until the IOC’s ruling came down, I lumped them into the same camp.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
My feelings about the return of convicted dopers has evolved, and might continue to do so.
For instance, when Tyler Hamilton won the US championship RR, I thought, “Good for him—he’s done his time.” And I looked forward to seeing Basso compete again, especially since Lance was coming back.
But this year’s Tirreno-Adriatico was a big turning point for me. Stage 6: first person across the line was a convicted doper. And the second. And, by God, the third. And, almost unbelievably, the fourth. I found that as much as I like to believe in second chances in the abstract, I really didn’t like seeing the returnees win.
Now look at the T-A final standings:
1 Michele Scarponi
2 Stefano Garzelli
3 Andreas Klöden
4 Thomas Lövkvist
5 Ivan Basso
6 Davide Rebellin
7 Linus Gerdemann
8 Ryder Hesjedal
Knock out the convicted dopers, Rebellin for his Olympic positive and Kloeden for the blood-doping report, and the podium would have been Lovkvist, Gerdemann, and Hesjedal. Now, that’s a result I could cheer.
Si
This is for me always the problem – I start to look at the riders who didn’t win, but otherwise might have. And it makes me sad. Then, it becomes all the more difficult to be forgiving and to ignore the evidence against certain riders who haven’t been caught and the past of riders who have been.
What is it against past dopers
I don’t want to open a can of worms and irk anyone, but is the argument that since they got caught doping before they are still doing it? Or is it that they shouldn’t even be given the opportunity to race anymore because of what they did in the past.
To me is seems that if they served their time and are clean now, then they are on the same playing field as someone who never doped and should be seen in the same light.
I just hope these past guys are clean when they are racing today, but i guess there will always be questions.
To me DiLuca personifies modern cycling
With all its glories and all its warts. In that sense I still am a great fan of cycling and I am still a great fan of DiLuca. Neither are close to perfect. I like DiLuca because he is not afraid to fail. He will lay it out and try interesting things, not simply attacking, but smart moves. Unfortunately I believe that pretty much every major cycling champ in the last 10 years has used some type of illegal enhancer at some point in their career, so for me all are tarred.
I pretty much agree completely.
And I fear that unless we find a way to allow the culture to change—which means, in part, allowing guys who are willing and able to return and compete cleanly—the future of cycling is really dim. Either we allow for the fact that most of the past of the sport is tainted (not just recently, but a huge amount of it) according to some more current notions of purity and clean competition, and work towards a future that is not tainted, including in that future any cyclist who’s willing to play by the new rules, or that future is unreachable. If you don’t allow for some possibility of forgiveness and reconciliation, in other words, there’s no chance of getting past the conflict. Case in point, look at any long running entrenched civil war you want to name.
And I think we’re still far too focused on burning individuals for what is and has been a systemic problem, for most of the history of the sport. The idea that most of these guys are somehow solely responsible for what they did or didn’t do is just plain BS. This is one thing that Vaughters has absolutely right, until there are teams and organizations that wholly support riders competing cleanly, even if that means failing a lot more often, then there is no chance of riders doing so.
As a practitioner of his chosen profession
He is a glory to watch in action.
He’s not my favourite cyclist, but he is someone worth watching out for.
To me watching Di Luca is like watching a much smarter version of Chiappucci. He has the same ability to ignite a race, to make it fascinating to watch, but where El Diablo seemed to have a randomness to his attacks, the Killer seems far more calculated.
And yes, I can look past the clouds of doping suspicions on these things, I guess that comes with having followed the sport for so long. If I started dissing on those who have been found guilty of doping infractions I’d lose too many of the names that I admire so much, including Coppi and Merckx….
I love Killer. No holds barred.
I love how he thinks. I love how he risks. I love how he wins and loses.
I have gotten over it
The doping has been so widespread that I cannot crucify certain people.
I just wanna see them ride. And he does a great job of that. Leave it all on the road.
Kill em all!! Love his style of riding.
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?
I will steal Monty's words as they sum it up perfectly
It’s sad because I do like the Killer’s style, but it’s easier to ride stylishly when you aren’t wheezing your guts out just to keep up.
These last two years he’s beginning to bug me more and more. He’s a thief. He’s also making a mockery of those he’s stealing from by prancing around cultivating his “Killer” persona, playing on the italian sycophant-media. And while I will wholeheartedly sign on with those who seek to emphasise the systemic faults that force individuals into a doping-culture, there is also a place where collective guilt ends and personal responsibility begins. Danilo Di Luca is not a victim here.
+1
Exactly. He chose to associate with Santuccione.
And worse than that, still sees nothing wrong with that association, and continues to deny any wrongdoing, despite all the tapes.
Yes (and...)
I agree that this is a problem. In fact, the one thing I will say to modulate what I said above is that its also important for riders who have been caught to admit the wrongdoing if they want to return. Dave Millar has this right as well, as do a few others.
But I have to say, I can also understand the desire not to be a sacrificial lamb for a whole lot of others who didn’t lose the luck of the draw sweepstakes.
Saves me from having to think of something new to say
There has to be some reason why both he and Petacchi are riding for a piddling little team like LPR. DiLuca was quoted the other day as wanting them to go ProTour, and reckoned that the whole team budget was around 2 million Euro. So his salary can’t be that big, yet even so no big names want him.
It's not so much that he was caught in the Oil for Drugs scandal
Rather his shameless lying and refusal to ’fess up in the face of overwhelming evidence that he was guilty.
I find it hard to like returning dopers when they refuse to admit they’ve done anything wrong, no matter how wonderful their riding style is.
And yes, doping was (and is) widespread – but it will continue to be if people who are caught act like Di Luca did. And it was widespread because of people like Santuccione -who Di Luca still stands by.
Not good enough, frankly.
i agree with mark
hating someone for being caught up in a doping scandal is naive, as a fan of the sport as a whole.
but what gets me, and a lot of other people i think, is the contrasting attitudes between those who have returned. david millar will never be one of my favourite riders, but at least his contrition seems to be genuine, and his choice of team etc etc are enough to show that he at least understands what he did wrong.
but you look at di luca, scarponi, and the like, and there isn’t even an acknowledgement or acceptance of guilt, let alone an understanding of what they did to damage themselves, their teams, and their sport.
and when asked, they profess a desire to move on, to get back to their pre-suspension level of success, and you find yourself thinking (or at least i do), what it will take for some people to understand?
it’s pretty depressing really. because they are welcomed back with open arms (in the majority of cases), not because they have served their time, but because they didn’t inform the authorities about the network(s) which led them to testing positive, because they didn’t spit in the soup.
but then i look at wins like EBH today, and i think that there is hope. but make no mistake, very few people connected with the sport offer me that hope. especially when there is universal adulation for someone as unrepentant as danilo di luca.
'you want to say your feelings and if you let your emotions pour out it shows how much the sport means to you. and cycling means everything to me.'- mark cavendish
I agree completely with you Chris.
“To me, the only thing separating Di Luca from being my favorite rider on the planet, hands down, is Oil for Drugs.”
He can win some races and makes it exciting. But Oil for Drugs?
Hmm, Di Luca i can never make my mind up
Yes, there’s evidence against him and he’s had bans but ultimately a lot of riders have or at least spend time shrouded in drug clouds.
I’m always very careful when it comes to judging riders (except Schumacher, but since i hated him it was easy to judge..) because i don’t have a good history of following riders. I mean i’m one of the crazy fools who’s still pro Valverde (and believe me, there aren’t many of us). Di Luca i never used to have an opinion on until watching him more often, i liked his style and he seemed impressive. Then oil for drugs hit.
But as is with anyone returning from a suspension or drug scandal, i like to think they’ve learned their lessons. I’m a believer in second chances, that they can change. If they get caught again then i have no problem judging then and slating. But i’m a pretty fair or stupid person so i go for innocent till guilty and second chances and because i don’t know much of Di Luca’s past with doping before OFD he’s on his second chance with me.
The ideal is everyone is clean or only the clean guys win, but this isn’t a reality and it probably won’t be for a while but at least it seems to be getting better and a generation are coming through who are clean and anti-drugs.
I support the Spanish Armada.
I openly root against this guy
He won the Giro and Liege Bastogne Liege in 2007 and his team of the time, Liquigas, said sayonara at the end of the year. Geez, wonder why?
What upsets me most is that his performance hasn’t changed at all from 2007, he’s still the bionic man out there seemingly capable of winning any race at will. Expect now he has to do it strictly in Italy since his second rate team won’t get invited to any races where doping is actually frowned upon. Personally I think it’s very bad for the sport if he wins this race.
if he wins, I would expect him and his team...
to be invited to play quite a bit more than now!
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
I'll say it just because it bugs me
Di Luca did not pay has price by serving a suspension. Being banned from racing during the months where there are no races is not a penalty.
There , now I’ve said mine about Danilo.
Glad to know I'm not alone about this guy
I was beginning to think this was one big Danilo love fest
he got the scarlet letter
That’s saying something. Any suspension at all = firing from LIQ.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on May 15, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the killer cause he makes the races he's in more interesting
like tomorrow’s stage might be a lot more action packed than it should if Di Luca tries something. I missed the guy in the ardennes too. Saying that though, I can’t say he got what he deserved, as Jens said above, exactly what was his punishment? But I don’t feel like rehashing the past, I’m going to enjoy the exciting racing he produces and not worry about oil for drugs, just as I enjoyed Scarponi’s effort yesterday.
In Chauncey we trust!
get over it
Il Killer is an absoulute pleasure to watch. So he doped. Everyone did. Or does. Can we think about enjoying cycling without worrying about who did what? W did coke. Clinton got a blow job in the oval office. Spitzer bought hookers. Boonen did coke. Lance did who knows what.
At a certain point we have to root for our favorites despite what they have allegedly done or not done that are the accepted social norms.
I root for Danilo guilt-free and I encourage you to do the same.
Who was it who said, "we're not athletes, we're professional bike racers?"
I don’t mean to be absolutely cynical, and I don’t actually endorse this as a healthy attitude, but there is a real truth to it, historically. What we’re dealing with here is something the commercial value of which has always been as spectacle, and which has often done its level best to ignore, sidestep and minimize any ‘dirty little secrets’ as long as humanly possible. The UCI and ASO, etc., are absolutely included in this historical pattern, and if they’ve all suddenly got religion about ‘clean sport’ its only b/c that is what sells now, as opposed to ‘records being broken by each new generation’ which is what has sold for a long time (and gave rise to the doping culture in the first place). The thing is, all of this is still, in the end, a marketing image and a rhetorical position. We can enjoy the spectacle, and even strongly prefer it to be conducted on a ‘clean’ basis, as I surely do, but the myth of authenticity at the heart of the ‘outrage’ over the doping is just, well, hard for me to swallow.
We have a right to idolize whomever we wish.Individuals may chose to idolize a cheat,a cheat who finished ahead of those who didn’t cross the line of fair play and didn’t take the glory and the cash.
Perhaps he has earned and deserves forgiveness,but like Basso will not enter the confessional,
For me,on that basis,he is tainted
The problem with that line of thought is...
who is guilty and who is innocent?
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
While he is tainted...
(but who isn’t from that generation of cycists), he is an absolutely incredibly aggressive rider who animates the Giro everytime he competes!
Plus he rides without a radio in ear! How cool is that? In this day and age?
If Levi had the aggressive riding capabilities that DiLuca has, he’d be winning GTs left and right!
I just wish cycling would come up with it’s version of a Truth and Reconcilliation Commission that would allow the Pro Peloton to come clean once and for all.
And as much as I don’t care much for Lance Armstrong (OMG- I didnt refer to him as HWMNBN), I must give him props for his Giro ride so far and being at Levi’s disposal!
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
That song
might get you banned…
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on May 15, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Frankie Says Ride Your Bike!
No Human League? No Flock of Seagulls?
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
Men without Hats!
Admit it, Girbecco did at least one Safety Dance in the Eighties!
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
We can ride if we want to
We can leave your team behind
‘Cause your team don’t roll and if they don’t roll
Well they’re no friends of mine
I say, we can climb how we want to
A pace where they will never climb
And we can ride like we come from out of this world
Leave the real ones far behind
And we can race
I can see...
… Girbecco dancing in a Renaissance Fair field with midgets.
And it’s beautiful.
Dudes and dudettes, what's with the 80's hate?
In future I’ll make sure to have pertinent video links ready. Party like it’s 1989!
The 80's was such a glorious age for music
Now the 90’s, that was bad! Complete rehash of the 80’s but with beats and a hair cut. 2000’s? Bland, bland, bland.
Talk about songs to get me banned, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l18j-vrVMCA
Meant to be a parody of the gabber scene (hardcore) but completely embraced by them and a big hit in the low countries.
Dude! Where's my memory?
I turned 13 in 1980 and Pink Floyd “The Wall” was where it was at for me!
That, plus KISS Alive II.
But then synthesizers came along, and everyone thought they were Mozart.
Oh God, I can still hear Eddie Van Halen playing them on JUMP.
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
I'm not convinced you had to mention "Jump." So depressing.
Thinking hard - really hard - of something witty to say....
I still got the twelve inch vinyl of "Jump" by this band.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bzKzbucdnE
Great cover.
I'm not Bob Dylan but I never miss a beat.
I ain't no philosopher, I dance in the street.
That is probably my favorite cover of all time!
I saw Aztec Camera open for Elvis Costello in 1982, when Roddy Frame was still only about 21. He’s one of the great boy geniouses of rock history.
by Susie Hartigan on May 16, 2009 4:55 AM EDT up reply actions
"If Levi had the aggressive riding capabilities that DiLuca has, he’d be winning GTs left and right!"
That’s brilliant. I’m reminded of a scene from “the Incredibles” where the villian talked about making special suits for everyone so that everyone could be a “super”, and then no one would be special.
He rides without a radio in his ear. +1
It’s a pleasure to watch someone who can process all the information and act on it so decisively.
I'm not Bob Dylan but I never miss a beat.
I ain't no philosopher, I dance in the street.
i dig his groove
he carries himself like a champion and the riding without race radio is icing on the cake.
"Race radios in Cat 4?"
by gravel road on May 15, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I love him
I dont care what hes done in the past. He makes every event he tries to win 3x more exciting then it would be without him. Guys like him and vinokourov without the doping is what the sport needs
I love this quote from Killer"
From Cycling Weekly:
Race leader Danilo Di Luca revealed that Armstrong had talked to him about the Mayrhofen finish but he didn’t think the Chiavenna was that bad.
"He talked to me about yesterday and he talked about the unlit tunnels. Today was a little more dangerous because it rained but I don’t think the finish was that dangerous. Things are more dangerous in Belgium."
Asked if perhaps Armstrong is getting old and is perhaps a little nervous after recently breaking his collarbone, Di Luca responded with a smile and a ‘maybe’ that said it all.
I love that last line. Killer is one of the few athletes in any sport that I’d like to spend some quality time with. Many are funny, smart, good guys; Di Luca seems more… substantial. Just my opinion.
Danilo, pro and con
Pro:
1. Used to have the coolest website ever.
2. Has the “unbreakable mind” that made Vino so compelling in Coyle’s book.
3. Seems completely unafraid to fail when trying to win a GT.
4. Knows his own abilities better than anyone else.
5. Less whiny than Simoni.
Con:
1. Santuccione. Fired after a stellar year with a great Italian team. Hormone levels of a prepubescent boy in after-stage testing.
2. Santuccione. The sports doctor who is like Eufemiano Fuentes but without the veneer of legitimacy.
3. Used to have the coolest website ever.
5.
The soft prejudice of low expectations? My 2yo is less whiny than Simoni.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on May 16, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
What can I say?
He’s my favorite.
Always was, always will be.
Different that any other rider…..
The Killer.
AKA -Bianchi Bob
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