any Giro performances "too good" yet?
Here we are, halfway through another grand tour. How many of them have been spoiled partway through or shortly afterwards by learning that one or more of the race's stellar performers was totally doping?
You know what I'm talking about: Schumie... Kohl... Vino... Ricco... Sella... The Chicken...
Many of us were rooting for at least some of these guys as they were having a "breakout year" or making heroic efforts, showing excellent form, and so on. I know I've been burned as a fan more than once in the last couple of years. :(
Now, it's pretty dang negative to assume that anyone who's performing well is a doper, but I'm sick of rooting for folks who end up being total scumbags.
So, I'm going to ask it: who would you all say is having a *spectacular* Giro so far?
-Greg
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60 comments
Comments
Is it just me
or do Girbecco’s horns seem a little too pointy? He’s obviously hiding something behind that glassy eyed expression.
by Rolleur on May 20, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would have said Bradley Wiggins
but fortunately normal service has been resumed. Interested to see how the newly reinvented Bradley the mountain goat (but not quite) fares tomorrow though.
by civetta on May 20, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Giro in general
Was going “too good” because we had not talked about any of these guys doping.
To answer your question = no one!
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?
by CannonDowell on May 20, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Columbia's team performance is pretty incredible,
6 stages out of 11, including beating Garmin in their speciality, the amazing Boasson Hagen and both Lovkvist and Rogers exceeding expectations on the climbs. I tend to believe that they’re just a talented bunch of riders, but my perspective might be different if they were a team I had a poorer opinion of going into the race.
Di Luca has been extremely strong, obviously.
by William H on May 20, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Part of what keeps happening in my head goes a little something like this:
“Yeah, these guys are rocking! Go BH! Wow, outta nowhere, new kid’s the next best thing!”
“Dude you’ve been burned before by stories like this.”
“Aw, come one! Columbia’s totally clean! I even want to start calling the guy ‘Boss Hog’ or something, he rocks!”
“Hmm, I dunno… don’t get too excited…”
“But Columbia! Even their shorts are snow-angel white! You know those boys are all clean!”
“Dude, that Austrian chimney sweep with the bad teeth looked pretty innocent…”
Sigh.
Here’s hoping that the peloton is totally, completely, all clean…
-Greg
by gregm on May 20, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Boss Hog is still racking up top 3s
in the third week, I’ll raise my considerable eyebrows (clearly he’s a smart and talented rider, but I expect his youth to leave him gasping by the end). Otherwise, folks seem to be following expectations.
by pigilito on May 20, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think such persons, if they do exist, would emerge starting with the unusual time trial.
Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.
by Josenka on May 20, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In order
1) Di Luca
2) Garzelli
3) Pellizotti
Just saying.
by Fernando on May 20, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Garzelli has been this way all year.
Maybe that is a clue…but sure got dropped quick in stage 5.
by ncmussell on May 20, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They all look like their normal selves to me.
DiLuca is winning what he’s supposed to win.
Garzelli had his bad day.
Pellizotti also had some problems on stage 5
by d rod on May 20, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who is is doing it a lot more subtley than the clowns did last year
I don’t trust DiLuca, but to be fair he does have a history of winning races, and the rest of his team are dying away in the final stages just as I’d expect them too.
by Monty. on May 20, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Di Luca's history in the grand tours is a little too erratic
Throw in the bizarre way he was dropped from the Liquigas team after winning them the Giro and Liege no less (makes you wonder if Lebron James will be getting his pink slip from the Cavs soon) and his aversion to seriously discussing a lot of circumstantial evidence which shows that he doped during the period of ‘04-’07 and the guy is far from trustworthy.
by Fernando on May 20, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why are we evening talking about this.....
Let’s enjoy the Giro, and if we find out later, then talk about it…
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
by CycleGirl on May 20, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
EXACTLY.
I’ve done that too many times and got burned.
Burned, burned, burned.
Burned so much that it’s hard to give in and enjoy it 100%. I can’t muster the full grand-tour-appropriate enthusiasm for fear of the letdown.
Not to mention breaking the news to my teenage, bike-racing daughter. “Oh yeah um so that guy we watched win that dramatic stage last week? He, um…” Let me tell you, it stinks.
-Greg, finding that he’s enjoying his Giro… somewhat. :(
by gregm on May 20, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give any rider that hasn't tested positive...
the benefit of the doubt. Even if they have been suspect or served a ban in the past, in all honesty, is Di Luca’s history that much more questionable than Armstrong? I hope the ex-dopers in the peleton remain just that, ex-dopers.
and on Di Luca’s performance, I don’t think its that surprising, although I expected Cunego to be doing this over Di Luca, the climbs have all been short and explosive to this point, perfect for a rider like the Killer.
by Huntero on May 20, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's enough you horrible little un-believers!!
I’m going to once an for all dismiss this drugs and other suspiscious substances can make you ride faster shit. From now on, each week I will systematically dope myself up on the flavour of the week and ride Norton Summit Road which is a 3.5 mile, 900ft climb at 5% My current best is 16:40 which is only a little slower than Bobridges 11:50
This weeks attempt I will call ‘The Boonen’…snort snort!!
errrr....am i supposed to sign this??
by Flatbagger on May 20, 2009 11:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm considering flavor of the day
Friday—East End Stout or Lemon Lavender?
by JFS_PGH on May 22, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will the stout make your breath smell like beer?
by pigilito on May 22, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's pretty mild, but yeah, it's beer.
by JFS_PGH on May 22, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtless it's too late,
but I’d go with the Lemon.
by pigilito on May 24, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lavender is not food. It smells like grandmas.
Long day--bad grammar. That's the way it works.--Lance Armstrong
by majope on May 24, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's showing up in food all over the place.
Lavender lemonade isn’t bad. There are a lot of herbs that straddle the “smells like a household product / smells like food” divide. Did you first encounter the lemongrass smell in food, or in bathroom cleaner? Star anise is also one of those “could be scent / could be food” spices. And bay leaf is a food thing and an aftershave thing. So’s mint. And my granny used a ball of cloves in her closet, but cloves are still a food spice.
by JFS_PGH on May 24, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Er. Yeah. I get that people are putting it in food. I'm saying they shouldn't.
Long day--bad grammar. That's the way it works.--Lance Armstrong
by majope on May 24, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I don’t see any too-good performances. And it is the first time in a while that I can say that about a GT. Progress!
Sure, there may be a B- rider who gets popped like Beltran and Duenas at the Tour last year…but no one at the top seems too unusual to me. Ex-dopers sure, but not current ones…at least not with the hardcore stuff.
It is because of what we’re seeing now that I have mixed feelings about nailing Valverde three years after the fact. I have no doubt that he came up doping in the Kelme system and that he is Valv.pit, but I also feel pretty certain that he’s been scared straight ever since Puerto.
by Mr 60 Percent on May 21, 2009 6:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
scared straight
for parts of this year maybe . . .
by R Mc on May 22, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
None so far but
We should be seeing DiLuca pay for his efforts the other day pretty soon, probably today during the long tt. If we don’t then I might start thinking the worst. We saw how he cracked like humpty dumpty last year and expect that we’ll be seeing the same soon. Nobody else looks ridiculously strong, which is a good sign.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on May 21, 2009 6:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Di Luca going humpty dumpty at some point would go a long way towards easing my mind too
If he does I can admire his gutsy riding. If not, the voice in my head will be screaming

by Jens on May 21, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SELLLLAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on May 21, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many
real attacks can a rider make in a 3 week race?
The consensus is that the number is very few. Landis’s attack on Stage 17 that reduced the field to the GC contenders was similar to a pursuit effort, around 450-500 watts for a few minutes. How many times can someone repeat that and recover to ride again the next day? I don’t know, but if somebody can repeatedly do this without paying the piper, my suspicions have been raised.
Di Luca has already attacked a few times. Maybe he’s clean and this is his superpower. Other riders we assume to be clean have superpowers, after all—-Contador, Spartacus, Jens!. Unfortunately, some other riders who had superpowers turned out to be cheating—-H/Gonchar, Ricco. So we’ll see.
[Possible new signature—-Danilo Di Luca: kicking Gilberto Simoni’s ass since 2007.]
by Softie on May 21, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I DO like that signature!
Adrenalina Italiana!
by Albertina on May 21, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many times can someone repeat that and recover to ride again the next day?
That’s why I’m a little suprised by Garzelli’’s performance. He went full gas on the stage to Bergamo and then a couple of days later was flying on the stage to Pinerolo, he even had enough energy to grap onto the the back of the leaders when they passed him. I know he’s a solid rider, but he’s getting pretty up there in age and I have a hard time believing that he could recover so quickly. As far as him losing 5 minutes, well, I’m sure he wasn’t seriously targeting the overall, he even stated that before the race began, so it came as no suprise when he was dropped on that stage.
I mentioned Pellizotti because his track record at the Giro, outside of last year which was a race ripe with dopers, shows that he had never broken into the top 5 in the overall. Now this year he shows up and he’s riding much stronger than Cunego and Simoni, guys that used to easily distance him in the mountains, and it’s rather suprising. I hope I’m wrong about these guys but after the last few years it’s hard to have much faith. :(
by Fernando on May 21, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope I’m wrong about these guys but after the last few years it’s hard to have much faith. :(
Yeah, that’s my sentiment.
I feel evil and negative when I look at a good performance and suspect doping.
When a good performance is later tainted by doping charges, I feel like I was cheated and duped.
The more times I’ve been burned as a fan, the harder it is to have faith. Ya start to feel like an idiot at some point… o.O
-Greg
by gregm on May 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I’ll amend my first answer a bit. Garzelli is a little suspicious now.
A guy like Kessiakoff from ex-Saunier Duval fits the Moises Duenas profile.
But I’ll give DiLuca a pass for the time being….
by Mr 60 Percent on May 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh? No more than he was
This was a good course for him and he’s got nothing to lose by not saving so a good result on the TT was certainly not unlikely. He didn’t beat any TT heavyweights as someone said. Either they weren’t here or they beat him. Not like Schumacher at the Tour last year.
All that being said look at Rebellin … same kind of guy Garzelli, old time Italian rider, so there is a medium level of suspicion at all times..
by Markk on May 21, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Kessiakoff
In what way?
Bork, bork, bork!
by TheFigurehead on May 21, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Previously unknown. Sudden jump to a high level
I would regard FK with some caution too. Thing is though that he is not a young rider , his unknown status comes from not having raced on the road before. He has however competed MTB at a high level for a long time.
That said, riding for “that” team doesn’t help.
by Jens on May 21, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
Even though he rode for “that” team, what we are seeing is a jump in performance AFTER he left “that” team.
- Skip “The Swedish Apologist”
by ursula on May 21, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Kessikoff is now riding for Fuji-Servetto, formerly known as Saunier-Duval but still run by the same a**wipes that were in charge when Riccó and his merry gang f***ed up the Tour and Giro.
I understand you take what chances you get but I still wish he didn’t ride for that managment.
by Jens on May 22, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fuji - Servetto
They kicked Gianetti out of all sporting management – he now works as a sponsor-something. They have an anti-doping program, run by Mapei Sports who are also the ones behind Ivan Basso’s personal anti-doping program, published on their web. Fuji – Servetto’s test-results haven’t been published online but so haven’t Columbia’s, for example. Moreover, Fuji’s riders have expressed disgust with Riccò and Piepoli – so, all in all, what makes them worse than Columbia, the former T-Mobile?
by Forstoppelse on May 22, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Passage of time, for one thing.
If Columbia were dirty, seems like they someone should have been caught by now. Or else they’d have to be doping at such miniscule levels that the boost would be more placebo effect than dopage.
That’s also where the assumptions about certain riders come in. I mean, they must have tested the above mentioned “Contador, Spartacus, Jens!” a gazillion times. If they are not clean, they’ve got to be so tightly dialed in that it’s pretty unlikely that they’ll suddenly pop a positive test (and it’s also pretty unlikely that their overall impressiveness is significantly altered by the dopage).
That’s my rationalization, anyway.
by JFS_PGH on May 22, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'd like to think
Pre-blood passort, cycling’s most tested cyclists were the most doped-up.
I haven’t got much, if any, expertise on this front but I would think that, if you micro-dose EPO for a longer period, your natural EPO-production-values would fall as your body regulates the EPO-production, and thus you would have to take even more EPO to get an effect – this would, someday, result in fluctuations in something justifying a ban.
Please correct as I am actually quite interested in this
by Forstoppelse on May 22, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what the negative part of the feedback loop (if any) looks like
it’s not a given that there is one.
Frequent testing by the team? Historically, a huge aid to successful doping.
Lots of testing by outsiders? With new tests coming on line, unannouced? Gotta be helpful in deterring & weeding out dopage, you’d think.
Now, that requires that people do not pop out for half an hour to pee, siphon / inject other pee back into their bladders (still have not gotten over the disgustingness of that!) or transfuse blood out and other blood in. (That’s why France was somewhat justified in starting to go…well…postal, over the Lance shower. Except that their own guy screwed up in the process, so they lost their moral high ground.)
But testing, as currently done in most cases, in and out of competition takes into account all of the classic tricks, and the newer ones as well. I have to assume there’s not much “clean pee sample in a bag up your ass with a catheter under the schlong” nonsense anymore. Not after everyone and their grandmother knows it can be done, and is looking for it.
And there’s the tighter timing. Sure, I guess someone could rig something like that in front of fans and cameras right out on the course. Maybe as the team clusters around them after the big win. But what are the chances of doing that repeatedly and not getting detected?
by JFS_PGH on May 22, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If riders are prepared
to chip in to buy a centrifuge so that they can draw and store their own blood (in the freezer at home with the peas and icecream?) then you have to assume that some people are still up to something. The authorities just have to do their best, as others here have already said, to limit the advantage you can gain that way.
by Monty. on May 25, 2009 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta say I'm gonna stick up for Fuji slightly..
because i do think a lot of the criticism they get is unfair. Yes, they had Piepoli and Ricco, but is it widely known that those 2 were BFFs, always together, always roomed together, tended to keep away from the other riders, which makes it look like a more isolated incident…
There are photos of the SD riders sat around after Ricco had been hauled away and they’re looking so angry, so pissed off and really upset. I lost the article but i read in Spanish press, De la Fuente tried to punch Ricco. All the riders signed that anti-doping agreement, the dopers were shelled out and the rest of the riders on a better anti-doping program.
Capecchi is part of Cunego’s i’m doping free army and none of them have put in particularly freakish performances or tested positive for anything. Kessiakoff, well it’s his first year in road racing so it’s not like he spent 2 years being dropped and is all of a sudden a super climber. The guy’s been a mountain biker, lots of climbs, tough riding? And he’s still being dropped by around 17 people (if you count the fact he’s 18th on GC) every climbing stage, so does that mean all 17 of those are doping? No!
If it’s time people say they need to prove the new team, the riders they have left are clean then give them it. This year is key, if they can get through it scandal free they deserve to be back in all the top races. They’ve got this far with nothing suspicious and for me i think most, if not all of them are clean.
I support the Spanish Armada.
by Helsy33 on May 23, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having said that..
I was and remain to be suspicious of Cobo (after all, only he could stay with Piepoli that day), but he’s not at the Giro so i’ll save that for another time.
I support the Spanish Armada.
by Helsy33 on May 23, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't mean to imply I deeply suspected all new guys until proven otherwise
I was more answering the specific question, “why not more suspicion about Columbia, given their antecedents and their performance?” Basically, the answer is, “yeah, I guess they’d be even more suspicious, except that everyone already had that thought, so they’ve been tested up the wazzoo, with the effect that they’re now, paradoxically, EASIER to trust than some random team.”
Admittedly, I may be separately swayed by the sense that SD had a kinda bad rep for years and years. Of course, during most of those years, a lot of teams SHOULD have had a bad rep! So I guess that shouldn’t be held against Fuji. And call me shallow, but the Mapei name is somehow not a name that instills major confidence in an anti-doping programme. To me, that’s about as reassuring as “Titanic sea rescue service.” (Yeah, I’m probably ignorant of a lot of history and regime change.)
by JFS_PGH on May 24, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can someone find info on Gianettis status?
I was under the impression that he is the teamowner and that the “getting kicked out”-part was more him moving himself into the background and having other names acting as the public faces. Is this mistaken?
by Jens on May 24, 2009 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GM Bikes SA hold the licence for Fuji
According to this listing site (aided and abetted by Google translate) which seems quite comprehensive
http://www.swissguide.ch/it/Pubblicita-Marketing-PR/Riazzino/1174143_gmbikessa.html
(You then have to click on the Annuci FUSC Gratiuti) He is still listed as “Chief Executive, with signature” – whatever thay may be?! – of GM Bikes SA. So seems you may be right.
by andrewp on May 25, 2009 6:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Water and soap doesn't make you clean
I don’t think it’s going out on to much of a limb to say that after today.
by Jens on May 25, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Turn the question arround.. Is there a performance which is too bad? Who stopped using?
Simoni? Is nowhere this Giro.. Haven’t found the legs.. Is getting old probably.. And so you can on… Just don’t make sence.. It’s no prove.. Just an indication
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
by Frinking on May 25, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i figured cunego was clean before and now I know it for sure [wink]
No, actually, the last person I felt that way about was Dekker (last year). And then someone came up with a plausible alternative explanation for that, right?
by JFS_PGH on May 27, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Silence effect?!
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
by Frinking on May 27, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Dekker it is all mental
In the not so happy way.
But I have a feeling he will be back. He is planning to go for a good result in Belgium these days. Afterwards he’ll do altitude training and prepare for the TdF.
"Non-cyclists. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbé
by Lopex on May 27, 2009 4:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a nice graph with average Giro speeds

By Benjamin Weiner. More http://www.astro.umd.edu/~bjw/misc/rbr/
by tedvdw on May 30, 2009 4:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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