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So who's having the better Giro: Basso or Armstrong?

On one side you have a 31 yr old formerly suspended Giro champ, who's sitting in 5th place, 3.19 off the pace, but who has looked frisky at times over the last 3-4 stages.

On the other you have a 37 yr old formerly retired 7 time Tour champ who's biggest energy expenditure over the last 3 years has been a handful of marathons and cross races. He's sitting 12th, 11.06 back, but led Levi in yesterday and looked the fresher of the two.

 

Discuss. 

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Lance.

Basso has been planning his comeback since his suspension, yesterday I think we saw flashes of the old Lance. I was a doubter but I think he will be VERY strong in July.

by Huntero on May 26, 2009 1:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lance without a doubt

for the simple reason that this is the HUGE goal of the year for Basso and he put all his prep into being on top form at the Giro, Lance is trying to increase his form for July and he will be satisfied with his progression, hell he may even get a top 10 GC placing when the race is done. Plus he is getting the attention he wanted to. Basso has been a disappointment so far and his team’s tactics have failed every time. Not that 5th is a bad placing at this year’s Giro, but he surely expected to do no worse than first.

In Chauncey we trust!

by Phil H. on May 26, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If Lance is in the Giro to prepare for the Tour, to jump around and have fun, to help Levi whenever he feels like it, then he’s obviously having a better Giro than Basso. Because Basso can fail, while Lance pretty much can not.

If Lance is in the Giro to Help Levi win, then it seems like Lance is having a kind of horrible Giro. And we can discuss who is having the worst Giro, Lance or Ivan?

Bork, bork, bork!

by TheFigurehead on May 26, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Simoni?

But considering Giro was a big goal for Cunego this year I would agree.

by ncmussell on May 26, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think many people expected Simoni to challenge

he just doesn’t have what it takes anymore. But Simoni has age as an excuse while Cunego should be in his prime. Plus the beating Cunego is taking from the Italian press just makes this Giro even worse for Cunego.

In Chauncey we trust!

by Phil H. on May 26, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The media in Italy want a big spectacle

They want to see a return to the days of Claudio Chiappucci riding alone for 160 kilometers across 4 mountain passes, they want to see another Pantani who can climb up the steepest mountain like he’s sprinting on the flat. Some of these people are just not realistic. Cunego is a very talented rider in his own right, but the Pantani comparisons were ill advised from day 1. In someways the media is responsible for pushing these guys towards doping.

by Fernando on May 26, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

i couldn’t agree more.

'you want to say your feelings and if you let your emotions pour out it shows how much the sport means to you. and cycling means everything to me.'- mark cavendish

by benrazor on May 26, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gibo for the final week?

Does he have a stage win in him? If not then he’s a fail.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on May 26, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really to me

Gibo is kind of semi-retired to me. He rides mountain bike races all over, doesn’t look to challenge this year. If he feels good he’ll go but if not I don’t think it will really bother him.

by Markk on May 27, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah Lance

For Basso to have a successful Giro he needs to win.

For Lance, coming back from a collarbone and so much time off as well as his age, he’s doing okay.

by ursula on May 26, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Depends

I personally don’t think Lance’s pre-race form was as bad as advertised, and he was probably expecting to perform better in the 60 kilometer TT. Losing more then 2 minutes to a potential rival like Menchov doesn’t bode too well for his Tour chances in my opinion. Basso, meanwhile, has done a respectable race. Sans EPO or blood doping the guy just doesn’t seem to have that little extra to drop Sastre or Menchov, and the latter is also a much better TT so winning was always going to be very difficult.

If the standings stay the way they are through the finish and neither wins a stage I would say it was pretty much a tie in regards to who had the better Giro.

by Fernando on May 26, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lance, I guess...though Basso is going strong in da hills.

Everybody plays up the fact that Lance broke his collarbone in March but Horner fractured his at Pais Vasco and was still had amazing fitness. Having fitness like Lance did, pre-retirement, and still staying in shape, I expected him to be very good. Basso just needs to race a lot more so he can totally be on top of his game.

by Vlaanderen90 on May 26, 2009 2:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In the recent Giro preview for ProCycling mag

Cunego said he was aiming for stages wins and hoped to accomplish a good GC result along the way. Finishing inside the top 20 with no stage wins is probably not what he had in mind, yet it’s not much worse than a lot of other riders in the Giro who did practically nothing from February through May. Cunego won 3 races during that span and was very close in the Ardennes and the Basque Country. Not bad for someone who is very vocal about doing things the right way.

by Fernando on May 26, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But his results in the Ardennes don't make his Giro any better

yes he’s in the top 20 in the GC but he is 14 minutes back and is behind two Astana domestique’s and Jose Serpa, and Seeldrayers. Lampre combined have had a very disappointing Giro.

In Chauncey we trust!

by Phil H. on May 26, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

both stage wins and a high overall finish

is always a challenge in Grand tours .

the best “stage” opportunists in the Grand Tours understand that they need be 20 minutes or more down as an initial goal ….. so they don’t get chased down later when trying for stage win - see Virenque, Jalabert, etc, etc.

sometimes life is a false flat

by Willj on May 26, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But what have Serpa or Popovych accomplished thus far?

OK, they’re both a few minutes ahead of Cunego in the GC, but barring a stage win from either one can you honestly say that those two had a better Giro than Cunego? If you’re a director of cycling team, don’ t you want the rider that is competitive year round and finishes 16th at the Giro, or the rider whose 13th place in the Giro was his high water mark of the season?

by Fernando on May 26, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing, but they weren't expected to do any more than they have, unlike Cunego

who continues to believe he is a GC rider. Those guys you mentioned headed into the giro as domestique’s who would be thrilled with a top 15 GC finish, but that’s not the position Cunego expected to be in. And again, I’m solely talking about Giro here, of course I much rather have Cunego on my team than Serpa and Popo for the entire year.

In Chauncey we trust!

by Phil H. on May 26, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cunego himself implied in that preview that he could not win

Therefore I don’t know if it’s accurate to say he continues to believe he is a GC rider. And while we’re on that topic what is a GC man? Not too long ago Denis Menchov probably wouldn’t have met the standard for being consider an elite GC rider either, seeing as he was terrible in two consecutive Tours (‘04-’05) Cunego is still very young and will hopefully profit from the filtering out of drugs from the sport. In the meantime the media in Italy should applaud his accomplishments and accept his limitations.

by Fernando on May 26, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not bad for someone who is very vocal about doing things the right way.

Are we really going hold him to a lower standard than others who are quieter about their way of doing things?

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on May 26, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Big problems warrant a big response and the majority of top cyclists in the world right now offer very little perspective on the problem of drugs in cycling. I’m not saying that makes them guilty and Cunego clean, I’m just saying that I can reasonably confident that his 16th place was accomplished on the basis of talent and hardwork. In light of what’s gone on in cycling over the past few years I can’t draw that conclusion from watching Di Luca.

by Fernando on May 26, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are they supposed to say?

doping is very bad, I’m clean and no one should do it? Every rider can say that and do if asked about it. Maybe they don’t feel like addressing doping every time they race, they can’t prevent others from doping, they can’t hand out bans, the UCI and other race organizers are the ones responsible from making sure the riders are clean. I can’t see how his performance is any way better than it seems just because he speaks about the issue.

In Chauncey we trust!

by Phil H. on May 26, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just saying that cycling is crooked in many ways

Di Luca is a rider who was mixed up in that Drugs for Oil scandal. Another cyclist involved in that same scandal is Eddy Mazzolini, a rider who is currently serving a two year suspension. So unless certain evidence existed which showed Mazzolini to be more at guilt than Di Luca, the latter shouldn’t even be competing in the Giro right now. It’s about accountabilty. And for me, if I’m a top cyclist who adheres to all the rules and see’s riders around me profiting from doping well than I would be pretty incensed. I would be outspoken. I would be willing to lose a few friends within the peleton if it meant that I could regain the trust of the public and fans. Yet very few do this. And this is not a minor problem. The very livelihood of cycling is at stake, therefore it would behoove a lot of these guys to become more outspoken in condemning doping.

by Fernando on May 26, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In tifosa's great photos

Basso didn’t even look winded (great poseur – I am sure he was stuffed)

Your question is difficult as it’s hard to read “the trend”

Armstrong seems pretty amazing given his injury recovery. (and despite me being one of his recent critics: that he is a lousy and selfish super domestique – I am a fanboy).

Basso has looked willing to risk and attack even against the best – surely hope for his supporters. I think he is so elegant as a rider. If he is still improving fitness then watch out.

To answer your question: I think Contador is having a great Giro …. as I still see him as TdF fav).

My 2 francs – but then I have never cracked the top VDS 100 (yet!!!!!)

sometimes life is a false flat

by Willj on May 26, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

will

I have to disagree with you about Basso’s elegance.

Perhaps in the past . . . but many, many times this giro he’s looked like a wimpy version of Jens! trying to wrestle around a bike that’s too big for him.

by R Mc on May 26, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough .. but

I love watching him pedal

(man crush?)

sometimes life is a false flat

by Willj on May 26, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One should watch

the 2006 Monte Bondone stage side by side with one of this years stages. The difference in style is striking.
If he’s riding this Giro on drugs they are surely lowerquality drugs than those he was (planning on) using in 2006.

by Jens on May 27, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely

His cadence is noticeably slower and his attacks don’t have the snap they did in 2006. He’s solid and consistent, but not on the same level.

by gavia on May 27, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember his climb to Passo Lanciano in 2006?

He basically stayed seated the entire climb and never once looked to be in difficulty, even though his teammate Sastre was setting a hellish pace up front. Just looking at him on the first stage to Alpe Siusi this year I could tell he would not replicate that form this year, his face and body language made it clear he was hurting pretty badly.

by Fernando on May 27, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

Bert is having a great Giro….

by rbjhan on May 27, 2009 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Basso

Because so far his team leader has a 13 second advantage over Armstrong’s.

Franco Pellizotti +3:08
Levi Leipheimer +3:21

by tedvdw on May 26, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

except...

the question wasn’t who is having a better Giro Pellizotti or Leipheimer?

by Huntero on May 26, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

Nice to know that Basso is a domestique! Be sure to tell him sometime.

by ursula on May 26, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He said he would do it if it came down to it.

I just don’t think he thinks it has.

by civetta on May 27, 2009 3:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

50/50

Lance looks stronger and stronger as the Giro goes by, he was never going to be a serious candidate for the GC, even if he hadn’t broken his collarbone earlier.
For a 37y, almost 4 years out of the sport, with a bad crash and big surgery 6 weeks ago, I’m impressed how well he is riding.

Wonder if Bert is impressed?

Basso is far from his ET form in 2006, but he has targeted this race for the last 2 years. I do think he will end up on the podium when all is said and done, he looks very good and has the best team around him.

Been wrong many times before though….

by Bruce Suomi on May 26, 2009 6:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, surely Basso is the more disappointed of the two...

Since much more was expected of him. But I wonder if Lance is making quite the progress he’d like to be. He doesn’t seem to be going all that much better than he was in the first week.

by tgartner on May 26, 2009 7:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah he is

He looked totally different yesterday spinning up to the maglia rosa group than he did on the alpe de siusi.

Yesterday he started to look like the old lance, with the killer instinct, yet in complete control.

by d rod on May 26, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Lance just doesn’t have the same accelaration he had in his prime. Yesterday I wanted to see what all the hubbub about Lance was so I watched the Italian coverage on You Tube. From my vantage point he didn’t seem too impressive, just managed to come up to the group of favorites with 8 full kilomters of climbing left and was promptly dispatched once the real racing started.

Just looking at his body it’s hard to imagine how he can win the Tour, he looks a little too top heavy, so he’ll have to slim off a few pounds of muscle in the next month or so if he’s serious about winning the Tour.

by Fernando on May 26, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You serious about thinking he might win the Tour?

Or are you just following other people’s hype?

No one has won a Grand Tour after the age of 35. Lance is 37.

by ursula on May 26, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm afraid I give him also a chance in the Tour.. The progress he makes in the Giro is impressive..

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on May 27, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I know...

But c’mon.. He was impressive in the last stage.. He hasn’t rode a GT for over 4 year and look where he’s now.. He surprised me and many others with the effort which he make now.. The GT, which he has now in the legs, can be the trick to ride a good TdF.

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on May 27, 2009 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I care more that

I’m having a great Giro. No C.tv to worry about and I’ve had virtually problem free streaming all giro. Nice bottle of well aged Durif lined up for tonight. Couldn’t be happier. As to the rest – well I think Basso is probably more disappointed but he’s also doing better than Lance so . . . i’ll take Garzelli though. He is having a great giro. He probably hasn’t got the stage win he wants yet, but for a rider as aggressive as he is (and as old as he is) to stil be going strong, well hats off to him.

by Rothko on May 27, 2009 3:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

minority here

but anyone who gets dropped every time in the mountains, cannot be seen as having a good race.

Basso did basically what I was expecting from him. He was never a good TTer, if you don’t count 2006 Giro. and he can’t sprint, that’s his time difference to the Killer and Menchov here. so I’m not disappointed.

Oh and Cunego indeed is having the worst Giro!

by rbjhan on May 27, 2009 4:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Out of all the contenders/pretenders

Cunego is having the worst Giro. Even if he says that he can’t win the Giro, that’s not what Lampre is hearing. But they aren’t exactly lighting it up as a team either. Basso’s Giro would be good if the fans and press weren’t expecting so much more. LA’s Giro is going good considering there’s no pressure on him. If he does well, he does well. If he doesn’t, he’s not getting paid to ride anyway. For LA, it’s already mission accomplished because of all the press he’s been getting which was the main goal anyways.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on May 27, 2009 5:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If Lance's goal is to help Levi win, then Basso

But Lance’s goal is BLAH BLAH LIVESTRONG, and he’s sure as hell getting a lot of the attention he wants.

by CTV-ROLD on May 27, 2009 8:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

CTV is getting bold popping up while we're all watching Universal Sports' much better cycling coverage

Hope you guys have something cool in the works (that actually works) to jump ahead of them. You could start by reviewing the tons of suggestions and constructive criticism you’ve received….

Thinking hard - really hard - of something witty to say....

by Cyclingrush on May 27, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not CTV, I am A MAN

But fine, I won’t post any more.

by CTV-ROLD on May 27, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

What's CTV...

Butg serious.. I never watched one of them.. I’m blessed with Belgium tv.. But it would be a pitty if you don’t post anymore.. Always nice to read as many opininions as I can… Especially in English.. If it’s without error’s…

And your point.. Don’t think he isn’t racing now for Livesrong.. He knows he can be a contender, In my opinion RBJHAN! ;), and think that will be more and more important.. You have to focus fully on the Tour if you want to be a contender.. Livestrong is going to be a fetter for Lance.. But video’s he made are showed on the Livestrong website.. So it’s going to be OK with that

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on May 28, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok

I see my name in CAPITAL LETTERS!
which is really scary….

oh, are you saying something?
someone is looking good for July?
sure, Bert looks really good.
oh, there is someone else? who got dropped every mountain….emmm…..I dunno…..what have you been smoking…..

by rbjhan on May 28, 2009 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously , that was funny

I can see the anguished cry of desperation .
You really should keep posting . I take my IKEA /rotting fish ribbings with the seriousness they deserve. One day we will look upon you as a real live boy.

by Jens on May 28, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see it

One day CTV-ROLD will, by magic or pink slip, turn into ROLD, and we’ll hear him sing:

I’ve got no strings, to hold me down
To make me fret, or make me frown
I had strings, but now I’m free
There are no strings on me!

by Sui Juris on May 28, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hi Rold!

I think the people calling you out are young and new enough that they don’t know you’re a nice guy who happens to work for CTV, but joins in real discussions as a real person, and has a bona fide interest in the races. But, well, that CTV in your PdC name isn’t doing your popularity any favors. Would you feel disloyal if your screen name didn’t have your employer in it? Given that, well, you’re posting a a man, not as the borg. But there have been times when CTV seems to have leaned on its people to post their borg-ish boilerplate here, under their own names.

by JFS_PGH on May 30, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*snort*

Man, CTV can’t get a break, can they… ehehehe…

Nor should they :|

Respect the Shit List; it respects you.

by crashdan on May 28, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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