Tour of California up against Giro next year
by majope on May 6, 2009 8:29 AM EDT
in News
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PrintThe 2010 edition of the Tour of California will take place May 16-23 next year instead of its usual Februrary slot. Organizer Andrew Messick says
"We will be head-to-head with the Giro but frankly I don't think that will really affect us. The Giro is a great race, but very few cyclists who are serious about the Tour de France will also race the Giro."
While Messick says the date change was to save the race when "there was no appetite to stay a February race," veteran PdC members suspect the actual reason was to include the ToC in the VDS calendar.
Messick also promises a mountaintop finish for next year.
source: cyclingnews
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Bad idea
That week would be very bad for Chris’s nerves.
"Non-cyclists. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbé
No better way to drive the point home
than making a spelling mistake, right?
"Non-cyclists. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbé
What's the mistake?
You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold
Now you're just confusing me
what about the possesive comma use?
"Non-cyclists. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbé
You mean the apostrophe in Chris's?
That’s fine. You’ll see two different ways in English to show possessives with a name ending in S: either apostrophe without an S (Chris’ nerves), or apostrophe with an S (Chris’s nerves). It’s a stylistic thing—guides vary, but the one I use prefers the apostrophe S.
You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold
I love that at this point half the comments...
are about the correct use of an apostrophe. PdC combines the best of everything. Really.
I'm built for descending...
Actually, 's is correct
though I’d always learned in school that Chris’ was the correct way. Go figure. Here are a couple of interesting Grammarphobia links discussing it:
Depends on the style guide
Majope is right above – It depends on which style guide you are using. Basically, pick one and go with it.
so, it's all about the TDF eh?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
the tdf-focused riders will either be on break, scouting the stages, or ramping up for the dauphine and tour de suisse
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Well, Messick claims it's a good time for TdF riders.
“I think being a lead-up to the Tour is the strongest place for us to be and we will have many of the Tour de France riders participating. The teams can do the Classics, the Tour de Romandie, take a break and still have enough time to get over to California for our race. They can even go back to Europe and do the Dauphiné [Libéré].”
But it kind of blows for the riders like Boonen who said he liked ToC because it was the only long race in February and was good training for the classics.
You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold
I'd say
First wait who bothers to show up.
Could be the Floyd Landis / Rock Racing show if this goes through. They’re all VDS-1 pointers right?
"Non-cyclists. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbé
I think you can write Landis off
He finished 27 minutes down on the last stage of Gila. He put in one breakaway effort, but outside of that, there were domestic-level US cat1s beating him.
It’s sort of like seeing Iron Maiden at the Harrisburg, PA Holiday Inn ballroom . . .
is that all you people care about?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Otherwise, interesting there's no mention of Catalunya at all.
Lately, including this year, Catalunya’s been the main race that folks who skip the Giro for the Tour might go to. (It’s an interesting course this year too.) That race is even on the Pro Tour calendar.
But it’s true that Catalunya’s finances have been very shaky for a couple years now. Plus the startlists have not been all that great considering the riders who aren’t at the Giro. Maybe in part AEG figure that Catalunya might not run next year, or move to another date; considering the economy I sure expect fewer Spanish regional races ext year.
And then there’s the ASO factor. I can’t imagine for one second that they weren’t included in this decision making. And if ASO is part of this then it’s likely that the start list will be of quality still. Frankly the who AEG? ASO tie is most interesting to me here. That the spokesman would actually say that they aren’t that concerned about being opposite the Giro… wow. that’s either incredibly stupid or there’s a lot going on under the surface. Probably the later.
thank the pro tour for catalunya's slow demise
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Explain? I don't know the background.
You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold
Catalyuna might be moved to August
there is no real Vuelta warm-up race for those Vuelta contenders who didn’t ride the Tour.
In Chauncey we trust!
This is all complete speculation on my point
I’ve heard nothing about a potential move, just pointing out that it may be a good place on the calender for it.
In Chauncey we trust!
Bad idea..
Why compete with the Giro and Catalonia? And indeed.. Who’s gonna take ToC’s spot as early on long stage and why? Theire(? I lost it) startlist was loaded this year
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
It wil get Pro Tour status too
I missed that first time around. That means that all Pro Tour teams will be there. This has to mean that Calalunya is either gone or moved.
And the Sierras finally come into play. Eventually- in 30 years or so- when Podium Cafe founds an old folks home, and we all retire there, we can talk about the old days when Sierra Road was THE major climb. Young uns will gather around and wonder why such a little climb was so important when we had the Sierras to climb… lol
I think it's sad
Now Tour of California will be no different to Catalunya, a great race, but nothing really special. In Feburary, the race had found its own niche as the stage race-start to the season, a small Paris – Nice but sometimes with better riders. It was something to really look forward to for all us non-US-located cycling fans as an early sign of spring. Now it’s just gonna’ be Tour of California, a race running parallel with the Giro.
+1
It was something warming on those long, dark February evenings. But I can’t see myself watching it instead of the Giro.
Frankly, me neither
And I live in Cali. Although, with the time differences, you could watch both. If you had nothing better to do with your time than watch cycling eight hours per day.
trade cold and rain for fire season?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Fire seaason is much later
August and later. All the vegetation that grew in the winter needs to dry out over the summer.
At least around my house.
Spoke too soon
Just saw the news about a new fire in Santa Barbara.
Wow. It seems like it never ends anymore. It really is becoming two seasons. Winter and fire. Shit.
What about the sprinters?
No Italian sprinters, and in normal years also none of the other big sprinters. Cavendish might have to make a tough choice.
"Non-cyclists. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbé
Petacchi=Italien Sprinter?
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
selfishly...
…we had that February Monday off for President’s Day, and the kid had the the whole week off for school.
In May, the opening weekend of ToC may likely conflict with the season finale for the high school mountain bike racers — the state championships. Which means we may not be able to go to any of the stages, and ~400 of the most insane cycling teenagers in Califronia may be unavailable to go watch the opening stages.
Oh, why don’t they think of the children?!? The children!!
Just sayin’.
-Greg
High school cycling? Wow.
California is like another world.
You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold
heh
Well, ok, I’ll give you that.
In addition to the northern California league, a southern California league just kicked off this year. It’s growing!
-Greg
p.s.: shameless promotion of the kid and some of her teammates:
this just in...
…the kid is stoked that the ToC might be taken more seriously, now that it’ll be smack-dab in the middle of the pro race season. She’s also jazzed that all of the pro tour teams will be there.
Hope we can still attend some stages!!!
-Greg
mine's #700...
This photo extremely unusual, since there is not a smile plastered on her face, which is usually the case when she’s at a race. :)
-Greg
Very cool! Must be a blast for her and her friends.
You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold
May is a glorious time in Northern California. Off shore flow means little or no fog on the coast
and inland it may get in the 90s (rarely) but generally its 70s and 80s. Its debatable whether its good spot on the cycling calendar but for the weather its perfect. And yes, they can go into the Sierras. Lake Tahoe anyone? So many more possibilities in May. I love it.
Time will tell how this pans out but I think the ASO tie-in is instrumental. I wonder if they got tired of the beautiful coastline stages getting rained on. Hard to showcase the beauty when you can see past the raindrops on the cameras.
Our little race is growing up. sniff
never say never...
Picture taken while riding in the rain in the central valley on Saturday:
Two SF bay area centuries this weekend — the Grizzly Peak Century and the Wine Country Century — were drenched with rain.
But, yes, odds are there will likely be awesome weather, and a mountaintop finish will be cool. :)
-Greg
BREAKING NEWS
In 2011 ToC finds new spot on Calendar, July 8-16. Race organizer says, “We will be head-to-head with the Tour but frankly I don’t think that will really affect us. The Tour is a great race, but very few cyclists who are serious about the Vuelta a Espana will also race the Tour.”
Well, there goes my fucking February training camp
This blows.
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Good point
I wonder if they’ve thought through how many people come to the February edition of the race, because it’s a chance to ride in better weather.
I will happily be in that 2% next year
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
AEG got played by ASO
the race is protour status at the same time as the giro. regardless of how the teams split up their riders, it leaves a weaker giro, exactly what the ASO wants. insure that the TdF remains the only real grand tour.
The center of the bottom bracket is the center of the universe.
Hmm
It also means that selling North American rights for the Giro just got much more difficult. If a U.S. broadcaster is going to carry a bike race, it’s probably going to be the one here in the U.S., not some far away Italian thing.
Suck.
The more I think about this, the less I like it.
I don't even have to think about it
I fucking hate it.
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Just thought of a way to salvage this
PdC Training Camp / Wine Country Safari – February 2010
Anybody still up for meeting around Solvang, riding in the morning and drinking in the afternoon? Anybody? Chris? Jimbo? Mark? Dan? Gav? Beuller?
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Forget it Jimbo......
you’re going to Solvang in February to ride with me and Gav. We need someone to sit in behind when the wind is blowing hard.
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Well, we could do that too
But not in February. We’re riding in Solvang in February.
Then, we can go to the Giro in May. Simple.
Drew, have you seen Jimbo in person? He’s not going to give us all that much shelter from the wind ;-)
I love the way Gav thinks
Is there any chance you can get Jimbo to fatten up between now and February?
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Ahhhh - the Puppet Master reveals himself.............
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Can I just ask...
Where the hell have you guys been lately.
It’s good to see you guys!
Oh, and since Phill and I secretly want to be derney drivers, I have no problem moto pacing you guys. :-)
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
Buried with work
Haven’t ever toed the start line at a race yet, but hope to change that next weekend.
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Let me get this straight.
Is it drinking or biking in the morning?
Loool!
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
Frinking, we fully expect to see you over here as well.
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
I haven't even a bike..
and I hate motors..
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
But you like to drink, right?
I don’t see a problem here.
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Booooooooooooo!!!!!!!
well there goes my interest for the Toc, it will never beat the Giro. Really annoying, I guess there won’t be 40 Cali posts on here from now on, seeing there will be 40 Giro posts.
The PT thing is dumb as well, the local squads, who with the loss of Georgia, will now only be able to race one major American race(mizzou). Those smaller teams made this race greater. Oh and who knows what the PT will look like in 2 years, this world calender thing seems to be working but it’s the UCI and they will surely mess something up by then.
In Chauncey we trust!
Oh right that too
was talking more about stage races, but yeah Philly is still accessible for them.
In Chauncey we trust!
Too Bad
ToC will probably never see a field as good as the one we just had in 2009.
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
No they won't ...
the classic guys won’t be there…Boonen, Thor, Big George..Why fix something that wasn’t broken?
absolutely
It’s grown in stature and popularity every year. It fit into the schedule well, it was great training for the classics. So we have one year of poor weather and they’re will to scrap the whole thing? As I see it, this just became another Tour of The Gila, with Bissel, RR and Jelly Belly fighting it out. Which won’t generate the prestige or cash to do things like close the GG bridge.
Even the pros that aren’t riding the Giro are going to be in Europe training, why would they come back for it?
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
2 of three years have had bad weather
Only the first year was good weather
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
I think the real motivation of the move is the weather.
They want people to see the state of California. I pray they consulted with teams and specific riders for feedback.
2006 weather wasn't bad... the race has had 4 editions
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Forget screwing with the race calendar
They should just bring over a Belgian camera crew next year
Viva la Lactique
Weather
I think it was two years of bad weather….I was in Cali for 2008 and it rained all week from Frisco to LA. But I agree why fix it if it wasn’t broken. Oh well.
Alpe Du Huez is my favorite place on earth!!!!!!
Frisco? Frisco? Where is this Frisco?
You mean San Francisco….right? We NEVER use that “F” word (smile)
Frisco is in Texas
and it probably wasn’t raining there
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
oh!
you just explained a song lyric that has been puzzling me for over 10 years, thanks!
by plinytheelder on May 6, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Bold move, but a good one
The organizer has a great point about filling the May gap for Tour contenders If you’re not at the Giro, there isn’t a whole lot else to do, and early May makes it a great re-tune for the Classics guys, as well as any late starters. Plus it’s not wedged against any other European races, making the travel a non-issue
American fans are going to pay attention to the ToC pretty much regardless of the other events in the world. The Tour of Cali always came a little too early for my—admittedly stressed—window of attention, and I think coming so early in the season, most riders were just stretching the legs rather than really gunning it. For a race to really establish itself, I think it needs to be inside the traditional boundaries of the cycling season.
If anything, this is a rough break for the Giro, since it will distract TdF-focused American fans even more.
-Cosmo
http://cyclocosm.com
Head down, elbows out since 2005
My heart will always belong to the Giro, along with my eyeballs
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
Well, if next year for the Giro is the same as this year, I won't be able to watch it, anyway.
Since RCS is not affording me the opportunity. No Vs. no Ctv. I am quite sure ToC will be available. I sooo prefer being able to walk out my door and watch pro riders in the spring and not in the winter…
However...
If Levi (fingers crossed) wins the Giro this year, he’ll face the problem of having to choose which race defend his title… and who wouldn’t pick the Giro over ToC. Lets all hope Levi has to make that decision next year :)
If Levi wins the Giro
I dont think theres anyway he races it again. He wants the tour
Initial feeling fail
Well a lot of interest in Cali is now gone for me. I was thinking of somehow making it out there, but not now. I know moving races around the calendar is traditional (e.g. Vuelta, Worlds) but somehow this grates.
i'd propose the fair state of georgia to fill what will clearly be a gap in feb...
but (brrrrr) i did not go to the top of brasstown bald the year it snowed in april!
to clarify for any lurking race organizers: i was still there!
(just at the start)
by cg. on May 6, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
foolish
3 yo race competes for attention against a century-old monument of the sport?
"Race radios in Cat 4?"
Some rationale
I can understand this sentiment here that being opposite the Giro is awful but the perspective for the average fan is quite different.
For example here’s a fair view of the the impoprtance of the Three Grand Tours in this country in order of importance:
1. Tour
2. Tour
3. Tour
4. Tour
5. Tour
6. Tour
7. Tour
8. Tour
…
25. Giro
26. Tour
…
42. Vuelta
43. Tour
etc.
The point here is that it’s far better from AEG’s perspective to scedule this race in May than February and the Giro is not much of an obstacle.
Another this is that really hyping yourself as a pre-Tour event with lots of climbs begins to change the dynamic of the pre-Tour spring and summer. California looks like it will still be a 10 day race next year adn I could imagine it becoming a 2 week race eventually which would be a big draw for the many Giro-skipping riders
See your point but..
still unconvinced a good idea.
Works well from a US perspective, and so the move makes sense! The debates about giro coverage highlightsyour point. ToC coverage guaranteed whenever it is staged.
To the diehard – the ToC in Feb is the Main Event! If it moves to May then it is"the other race" occurring in May. And you can get all the TDF prep you need in the Giro as a cyclist with no jet lag.
Move to Pro Tour status in May will also stretch teams’ support systems to the limit in terms of back room staff. Usually needs most of them for a GT, and now have to ship staff to Cali for a major tour. Nightmare!
Budget
Totally agree that it will hurt team budgets. Before this announcement I thought it might be good if they moved California to move it next to Missouri and/or Philly and/or Battenkill so teams could have an extended US swing and save that way.
I think in the long run this move will work or fail depending on how ASO continues to manipulate things. I do think that they in the long run will call most of the shots in the whole season and rearrange things as they see fit.
Only glad you brought up ASO before I did!
Although if I were them I would have moved the Vuelta back.
In a time of recession you can rely on the UCI to increase all team costs through the roof. There is a reason there are no major races during grand tours.
Well I guess Lance is happy about this...
He did suggest it back in February that the race should be moved to April-May timeslot and it just seemed to magically happen.
The move is quite stupid and they don’t seem to realize they have a little niche. Though don’t be suprised if Garmin and Columbia bring A-teams now because it will be the new “Great American Race”. I’m sure George will have to make an appearance even if he might not want to.
Before you know it the Vuelta will be in April again.
Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.
Two years with three straight days of freezing rain
in February pretty much makes the decision. Plus having to get rid of the gorgeous Highway 1 stage — a stage that some Europeans come to Cali specifically to ride — because the weather is so horrible. You can’t really expect serious riders like Kirchen, Freire, and Basso to keep coming to break their wrists and collarbones on slippery, icy roads in February.
Anyway, there will be no real competiton with the Giro. There’s a 9-hour time difference and essentially none of the same riders.
Just hope they push it to three weeks after LBL, so most of those guys will show up…
you mean cold rain?
I don’t think there was any freezing rain, was there?!? And no way for three days.
-Greg
Net Plus
The negative votes, I feel, is based on the underlying belief that now the ATOC will never be as big as the TDF because ATOC will not be able to attract the large Spanish and Italian field. That was never going to happen anyway. This allows ATOC to dilute Giro for the benefit of ATOC. The Australians , Brits and probably some French and Germans will choose either the Giro or ATOC depending on whether they can climb the Dolomites or not. Most Europeans cannot. This move makes the TDF even BIGGER, and truly the Super Bowl of Cycling. It also actually helps La Vuelta Espana possibly to become finally on par with the Giro as the Vuelta field will probably be more competitive than the Giro. This also helps domestic racing enormously. You will also see alot of cross border start lists with USA/Canada riders starting Vuelta Mexico Telmex and Tecos and such riders starting ATOC. Riders can do Vuelta Mexico the first week of March when the weather is great in Mexico and then head to Redlands and then Gila, Georgia (if it returns), Joe Martin, Tulsa, Mt.Hood/Oregon Stage Race will probably have to be moved from May , it is having problems finding sponsors anyway. It will be the the North American Super Bowl of cycling centered in between those early season NRC races as well as those coming later on such as Cascade Classic and Tour of Elk Grove , Nature Valley GP, and alot of the Northeast races.
But when AToC joins the Pro Tour that only negates domestic cycling...
Then if Georgia doesn’t return, that leaves about 2 races where the domestic scene can race against that European boys. This scenario will only be viable for one year but then when 2011 hits then it will be worse than it is now. If the teams wanted to be able to take part in Cali when it is Pro Tour is by going Pro-Conti which they do not have money for.
The riders in 2011 will have Mexico, Redlands, Gila, Joe Martin, Mt. Hood(maybe), Cascade, Nature Valley, Fitchburg, and maybe a Tour of new York. Most domestic teams can’t afford to go to all of these races with most being west of the Mississippi. Unless some serious money gets back into the fold, all the North American calendar will mostly consist of 2-3 day stage races, one day races, and mostly crits.
All this is doing is taking another big race away from the North American peloton.
I think the ProTour will be changing next year...
Tho’ I don’t have any inside info, I don’t imagine them keeping it the same.
Oh so you are saying this will lesson the Giro........that would be fucking horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the Giro is more beautiful than the Tour, it usually has a more difficult and exciting parcour, and it ends up being more exciting most of the time. The Giro needs to get bigger and bigger so we can see more fields like this year’s. The Tour might be the BIGGEST event in cycling, but the Giro is the GREATEST!
In Chauncey we trust!
Hate it. Stupid idea.
It’s a disappointment. I would always choose the Giro over CA, following the Giro and another race simultaneously is too much.
It knocks the TOC down a rung in terms of significance.
Here in MO it’s great to host a pro race, but even as a Missourian, with Contador set to win his third grand tour, we had only enough time to spare for the Tour of MO last year to run down to the finish line to see Cavendish win.
We’d like to see as many great riders as possible in the US—Italians and Spaniards, many of whom will never want to come to TOC during the Giro, or to TOM during the Vuelta.
Canadian Cyclist quotes UCI that the schedule change is not actually confirmed
CC apparently emailed the UCI and the UCI Press Officer Carpani replied “Nothing has been decided yet; discussions are still ongoing” … so is this all a PR tactic by the TOC organizers to pressure the UCI into going along with the move?
ah, i wondered about this ;-)
lol, someone is playing games for sure, though i’m not entirely sure who.
i never got around to reading the wording of the press releases and whatnot. i did vaguely recall that the uci calender is not set until later in the year.
the plot thickens. maybe aeg is trolling for a sponsor?
this is actually the craziest month for me
Rome, Madrid, Roland Garros
Giro
Champions League
really, what is this ToC?
What is the Champions League?
Do you always go to Rome and Madrid in May? Who is Roland Garros—the guy you travel with?
You need to do this race two or three times before you can win, despite what Cunego showed us last year: winning in his first try--Frank Schleck, on Amstel Gold
I missed this bit of news because the Col de la Madone had my full attention
but WTF? I thought it was definitely a joke when I read the intro. Had to doublecheck the author was not Hophead.
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