Astana: What a Mess!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 1:37 PM EDT
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PrintThey may yet win the Tour de France. In fact, they probably will. But does any pro tour team carry a stranger aura than the Bruyneel's Faded Baby Blues? To wit:
* Today La Gazzetta (via CN) carries an interview with Alberto Contador in which he describes Levi Leipheimer and Lance Armstrong as rivals. Contador goes on to talk about how little he has been with Lance, and how he will have to deal with his erstwhile teammates on the road at the Tour.
* Then there's the ongoing cash crisis, whereby (according to De Telegraaf) Astana have until 5pm today to send the UCI 6 million euros or the team may be shut down. Immediately.
* Oh, and Assan Bazayev was suspended earlier this week, continuing a succession of Kazakh champions to run afoul of the doping rules. Bazayev's ousting was due to his being unavailable for testing rather than a positive test, but still. Wearing the Kazakh brand is an awkward burden these days, and about to get worse in a month or so when Vinokourov comes back. That last part may turn out to be the team's death knell: if the sponsors insist they want to hire Vino, Bruyneel and his charges will have to choose between outright pariah status or walking away from the squad.
All of this has shown up in the team's performance. After a couple years where Discovery and Astana hovered around 5th in the rankings, they currently sit 8th. As I mentioned yesterday, they are sporting 14 wins, mostly through Contador, and but for the Vuelta al Pais Vasco mostly of low significance. They remain by far the most intriguing team for the Tour de France, but for two possible reasons: the power and the sideshow. Here's their short list for the Tour:
- Alberto Contador
- Lance Armstrong
- Levi Leipheimer
- Andreas Klöden
- Janez Brajkovic
- Haimar Zubeldia
- Thomas Vaitkus
- Chris Horner
- Yaroslav Popovych
- And the domestiques, Muravyev, Paulinho, Rast, Iglingky and Noval
Is this one team, or three? Given Contador's comments, I'd guess the latter. It's nice to throw a lot of talent at a race, but remember Jan Ullrich's final T-Mobile squads, where Vinokourov was freelancing, being chased down by (second-placed) Klöden on behalf of team captain Ullrich? It's quite easy to envision a similar scenario unfolding at this year's Tour.
And I for one can't wait to see that happen. One of the lesser staples of Cycling is the team-in-turmoil during a grand tour. Three weeks is a long time, and everyone in the race is heavily invested in the outcome, financially, physically and emotionally. So when fortune upends the team order and the wrong guy starts looking like the best bet, loyalties change fast. There is a long history of colorful inter-team rivalries emerging, from the best known battles (Ullrich-Vino, Ullrich-Riis, Cunego-Simoni, LeMond-Hinault, Visentini-Roche) and further back in time -- I'm not a walking history but ask Giro double-champion Franco Balmamion about some of his mates. It's been a while since we have seen a squad blown wide open on the road of a major Tour, so we are due here.
However, even by internal-team-turmoil standards Astana are exceptionally strange. Contador is a rare mega-champion, whereas most of the intramural stuff has been touched off by the captain's fading form (Riis, Hinault, etc.). The main pretender to his captaincy is an aged mega-mega-champion, who might be taken less seriously if the media (from bored journalists to voracious sponsors) weren't doing everything possible to pump up his candidacy. Just look on the Astana website: alongside the usual news is an article about people making sculptures out of Lance's time trial discs. Everywhere he goes, the circus follows. But it doesn't end there: another four guys with Tour podium histories or potentials are further lurking around. And while Levi, Zubeldia, Kloden and Brajkovic may all say the right things, you have to wonder what they think of Lance as Plan B. Something like, "why should that older guy who's done nothing this year be second in line instead of me?" Lance's position in the race is explicable on its face, but once the race starts and the road turns up, that could change in a hurry. Does anyone think Lance will quietly take his place at the front of the first of five climbs? And is there any reason Zubeldia should drop back to help Armstrong when he gets in trouble on the first major Pyrenean climb?
I wouldn't go so far as to say all of this is good for cycling, but it could make for some incredible ratings. Stay tuned, this soap opera has new installments every day.
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It sure is interesting
But also a little sad. All this talent going to waste. I don’t expect them to operate as a team in the tour at all. Either way they have the yellow jersey and the team classification sealed. If they start behaving as a team their dominance could be brutal.
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
doesn't sadden me
All these guys made choices. Except maybe Contador, who didn’t likely think of having to deal with Lance when he signed his contract.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sad for those guys
I it is just a tad sad to see a team so full of potential not reaching half of it. Just a waste of resources. As an economist I just don’t like that ;-) As a cycling fan I’d rather see some of that talent on competing teams to spice things up.
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
To spice things up...?
I think it much spicier with the seasonings in one dish. I can’t wait to see what might emerge. But most likely Contador will take the race by the reigns and everything will fall into cycling rules within the team in short order, well, it may get a little drawn out. But the drama will be fun to watch as long as they don’t screw it up and lose the Tour.
The HLN story yesterday had a quote from the Kazakh federation spokesman.
He said they don’t want to pay the UCI the further guarantees. They would be comfortable paying some kind of legal guardianship but they don’t want to give the UCI any more money.
With respect to "why should that older guy be second in line instead of me"
This is a fairly week argument from teammates perspective given the fact that Levi was no doubt the captain at the Giro and was given all the opportunity to succeed, and yet he did not even finish on the podium. And while LA may not be in the shape he was a couple years ago, he is the only other guy to have proven his position as one who can finish the job (other than Contador).
So if you want to be the team leader then you better damn well win or get top 3 when you are given the chance.
OK
what about Kloden? I think he’s probably stronger.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
might be
But as Ursula pointed out on the post-stage thread for today’s race, Kloden’s record this year even in week long stage races has been average at best. And when the terrain starts going up this year he has been quickly going down. I think it was Giro Trentino when he all but had the race won but lost it on the final climb.
And there is still way too much suspicion surrounding him.
has Klöden ever been a world class climber?
I don’t think so, his podiums were because of his excellent TT skills rather than his climbing skills.
Agree about the suspicion.
but you dont finish 2nd in the Tour without decent climbing "skills"
Kloden’s abilities are tough to evaluate because do we look at what he did in the past including a 2nd in the Tour in ’06 during the infamous T-Mobile days. Or do we look at him know when he has consistently lost time on even single day climbs in week long races let alone multiple days in the mountains during grand tours.
+1
i don’t know who i’d like to see leading astana less- armstrong, kloden or contador. i find it hard to warm to, or trust, any of them.
it’s a real shame levi didn’t have a better giro, as his candidacy for the leaders role at the tour looks pretty weak as a result.
i wonder what those livestrong videos are going to be like in july? i eagerly await the shots of the pre-stage team talk on the bus…
before i'm gunned for being anti-contador
i should probably say that most of what i posted above could be applied to most cyclists..
hadn’t thought about the videos – you’re right, they could get really interesting…
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
and... nothing really.
I just don’t think that’s probably enough to give him the clout needed to get higher billing for a leadership role over LA.
couldn't tell
if you agreed or disagreed. While I hear what y’all are saying about Kloden, I wouldn’t put much stock in his earlier efforts. He’s a classic all-about-July guy. And isn’t he more reliable than Leipheimer? I’ve tried to make the case for Levi, but he’s awfully temperamental. And in all honesty, Lance is a complete unknown. I expect very little, but the whole thing is devoid of any useful precedent.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Levi was not at all prepared to race the Giro, as much as we hoped he’d be, getting 6th in a GT is rubbish?
wow.
actually he was rubbish at the Giro last year
but he didn’t know he was going, and he’s no Bert.
this year, he knew. and we were all saying it was his best chance to win a GT, I’d like to think he knew that too.
yet his third week was a complete disaster.
maybe not rubbish, but close in my books.
Any material thrown out as useless.
Maybe there are other definitions/meanings to the word rubbish. Here it is. I think it’s rubbish(nonsense) to refer to LL’s performance as rubbish.
Agree it wasn't rubbish, dissapointing but not rubbish
now his ridiculous focus on being on top form in February and his approach to the Giro I feel was rubbish.
"rubbish" is a figure of speech where i come from
not meant in literal terms but simply to mean silly, stupid, or nonsensical. in that sense, Phil’s assessment makes sense to me, and that ain’t rubbish :)
If Levi was Rubbish
What word could describe Cunego? Or anyone on Garmin?
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
"Tyler Farrar" is to Garmin/accusations of failure as
“cancercrusader” is to LA/accusations of doping
how?
Tyler Farrar rides for Garmin, Tyler Farrar didn’t fail
Tyler Farrar is a sound defense against an accusation of failure, cancercrusader isn’t a sound defence against an accusation of doping
I actually agree on Farrar
but it’s almost becoming a joke when he gets dragged up the second someone mentions Garmin having a bad year.
As for the second thing, not being a sound defence hasn’t stopped people using it. Anyhoo, it was more meant as a joke than to spark a debate.
I agree with your basic point...
…the difference is this. At least the citation of Farrar is relevant to the question at hand, though perhaps not sufficient to disprove the claim. The cancer thing in LA’s case is just totally irrelevant, which is what makes it by turn infurtiating and amusing to hear cited over and over.
funny
I almost excepted Farrar, but didn’t.I though it would open up more discussion by not making an exception.
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
Jens - does C's P-N stage win not count?
At least a little?
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
Conflicted
Part of me wants to see a united team behind (or perhaps in front of in more appropriate) Contador but a sliver of the “guilty pleasure” zone of my brain is wondering how this train wreck will look amongst the beautiful scenery of le Tour. Could be fun to watch. LA and LL are kidding themselves if they think they should lead the Tour squad, I seriously doubt Levi feels like he can contend. This will get sorted out as soon as the road goes up, if not before….
I’d rather see Contador go to Caisse, even though that’s the least likely scenario. That would set up a monumental battle between Astana, Caisse, Saxo, Cervelo and Rabo. Maybe the deepest field in Tour history in terms of strong teams.
by mysterion on Jun 16, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually him going to Caisse is probably the most likely scenario if the UCI disbands Astana...
Something like 3 million Euro was the offer.
by Vlaanderen90 on Jun 16, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Conta->Caisse
Hmmm…that is an intriguing option. I’ve heard Caisse thrown about but never considered the battle it would set up amongst the rest of the field. “EX-cellent!”
by Spot of Bother on Jun 16, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Would be very intriguing
Or just send him to Team Columbia where he would ride by himself and win and then Columbia would just be able to win every tour stage (only joking)!
Yay!
And then Portland, OR will become the world capital of cycling.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Contador
Would be a major contender on any team.
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
won't happen... even if "astana" is "disbanded", you can rest assured that there are already sponsors lined up to fill in the gap
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
So is Contador paranoid...
with his talk of having to deal with Levi and Lance in addition to Menchov, Sastre, etc? I just find it odd he still considers them rivals (LA’s ego and aspirations aside). Has anyone seen any quotes from Lance that would back up the “rivalry”?
conta just being honest about the team dynamics
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
There has been much talk of "the road will decide who is the leader"
but methinks Bert wants to force LA in particular into making some pre-race statements that “of course we are behind Contador” just to dampen the image of a team in turmoil.
I'm on Hinault side on this..."I hope that Contador crushes Armstrong in July". I just can't wait too see the TTT
…maybe a frame pump in the spokes?…or Lance going all Ivan Drago and saying “I must break you”.
regarding the astana tdf team, my nine: contadaor, armstrong, leipheimer, kloden, zubeldia, popovich, noval, paulinho; with the 9th spot going to vaitkus or iglinsky
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I'd put Horner in if he's healthy, which he should be
and take Paulinho out. Last spot is Vaitkus’ I think.
horner's too much of a risk, imo
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
save him for the vuelta.... tough for a young kid to do two gts in a row... especially since he wore himself out last year
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
hey, it's not as if iglinsky is a bad rider... and he did quite well last year in the mtns at the giro
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
What about Rubiera?
Leaving him out for a reason?
hmm that is interesting
guess maybe it is an age thing as he is 36. Must not be the same guy he used to be.
he'll ride the vuelta...
the giro is chechu’s favorite race… he wasn’t able to ride it last year (due to prior commitments), so he got to ride it this year
chechu also didn’t ride the 2007 tdf, but the 2007 giro and the 2007 vuelta….
besides, popo can play shadow to armstrong just as well
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Yeah
Astana-if, of course they are the same Astana s they are right now-will have a heavily Spanish team at the Vuelta:
Contador (maybe) Zubeldia, Rubiera, Hernandez, Noval (maybe), Navarro, Paulinho, with Brajkovic, Iglinsky, Bazayev, Murrayev, and Renev being the short list to fill out the lineup. Kloden would be a way outside possibility. If Contador ain’t present then leadership goes to Brajkovic & Zubeldia.
That’s my guess.
klodi's also focusing on the vuelta.... so he's def a domestique for the tdf
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Point of interest
Contador, when asked who were loyal teammates after Paris-Nice, answered Paulinho and Noval.
A sign that somebody somewhere is making mentally healthy decisions at the team would be if Jesus Hernandez would put on the Tour squad. IMO!
jesus doesn't have gt experience
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
He does
He started his life with a trip to Egypt.
Bork, bork, bork!
by TheFigurehead on Jun 17, 2009 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Paulinho
is know by the “Joker” between his teammates, so 1 more point in favor, lol.-
by semprenaroda on Jun 17, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It's soo weird
- The who’ll help Lance question. I think this is an important question that Chris has identified. At the Giro we say various guys (mainly Popovych and Brajkovic) dropping back to help out for IMO no real purpose other than to keep Lance a little close- while sacraficiing their own chances. It is true that Lance improved as the Giro went on but not enough.
- The Levi has no spine question. Not only did Popo and Brajkovic sacrifice themselves in the Giro but it became apparent that Levi bascially didn’t prepare or try or something properly for the Giro because Lance was there and with Lance and Bruyneel it’s All Tour All The Time. I can’t imagine Levi chasing down a teammate in the Tour but where is his head at?
- The Bert’s Friends question. Who’s gonna help Contador unquestionably? I think Zubeldia will. I also think they’ll select Noval for that purpose as well- or if they don’t that will show the split on the team even more. Then of course there’s Caisse d’Epargne who I do think are in it to help Contador out now that Valverde is out. Regardless I think if Bert is in the lead Horner and Levi will help him. Horner at least is too smart not to and he won’t bend for Lance.
- The ignoring Brajkovic question. A side question as Jani shouldn’t be doing the Tour but he seems to be ignored by Bruyneel this year even though he’s showing so much.
- The ultimate leadership question. I get more and more sense that Bruyneel is just palin happy being around Lance. I think that explains much of what is behind Contador’s “Levi and Lance are rivals” statement.
- The first stage of the Tour question. I’ve said elsewhere but that first stage- the ITT in Monaco-sets up beautifully for Bert and Levi. But there could be Kloden and, a little further back, Lance, in the mix there. But after that stage there’s little that’s decisive until the end. There’s one satge int he Pyrenees then you wait till the Alps and the TT and Ventoux again. Will the tension of all those uneventful stages mess with this team? It could if Levi is in the lead or Lance manages to pull out a good opening TT. The Levi scenario is very possible; the Lance one unlikely.
by ursula on Jun 16, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Like Columbia, Astana could easily field two quality teams.
Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.
Really?
The team without Cavendish would be hard pressed to show anything I guess. Lots of hopefuls but no solid contenders in any classification as far as I can tell. Maybe Kirchen if he finds his form in time.
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
maybe that's the plan
Contador plus three guys (maybe Klodi?) as the Spanish squad. Lance, Levi, Jani, Horner and Popo as Discovery 3.0. Let ’em fight for all the spoils. Either way, Bruyneel wins.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Having Popo and Hincapie as your GC threats is a different thing altogether.
Although he did miscalculate a little bit during the Vuelta that year with Danielson and Brajkovic.
He has to have a star if he wants to good at a race...
by Vlaanderen90 on Jun 16, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
jani did well at the 2006 vuelta...
it wasn’t a goal for jani to win the vuelta…
td is another matter entirely
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Popo, Savoldelli and Hincapie
as captains?
That’s a bit different when you have Contador, LL, LA, Klöden and Zubeldia on your roster.
Winning the Giro means nothing when it comes to the Tour, as we’ve seen many times.
Contador did a lot of work for Levi at Castilla y Leon. More than Lance did at the Giro.
Alberto deserves his support but I agree Lance probably knows how to get in Levi’s head.
Yeah he knows how to get into his head...
Long walks on the beach, bike rides at sunset, candle light dinners….
by Vlaanderen90 on Jun 16, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the "tension of the uneventful stages" line
I think something’s bound to happen in one of these stages, some kind of drama…
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Did anyone else catch this article in CN
Odd, now it’s down. This was the link
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-prepared-to-help-contador-at-the-tour
but the article is gone. The gist of the article was that piti was hoping to get in the tour and looking forward to being able to work for AC to pay him back for the work AC did in the Dolphin.
To me, AC is acting like a paranoid spoiled child, not exactly someone you want to work for. Even if it’s true that he feels that LL and Lance are rivals, why would anyone ever admit that?
If there are problems, they will show up during the course of the race. Why feed the hype now?
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
Contador has the mentality of a Patron.
He’s not afraid to speak his mind.
A patron would never admit he's scared of his own teammates
I really like the post at BKW about it
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
+1
And one of the replies suggests Conta is using a little reverse psychology himself. Another states he’s serving notice that he’s ready for anyone including teammates. Just goes to show how many different takes there are on one interview.
by Spot of Bother on Jun 16, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
A bit more nuanced I think
The article is in the gruppetto.
The first of them, Alberto Contador, clearly assisted Valverde at the Dauphiné every time that Cadel Evans attacked. Valverde denied there was an agreement between them but their cooperation was obvious. “If I can help him at the Tour de France, I’ll do it,” Valverde said to a question about the possible help that Contador could look for in case of an offensive by Lance Armstrong. “But if I have to attack him, I’ll do it as much as he’d attack me.”
Bork, bork, bork!
by TheFigurehead on Jun 16, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
ehhh woops...
…you already got the quote. o.O
Does this count as a 2nd place podium finish on the stage for me?
Check the google cache — google on “valverde prepared to help contador at the tour”.
Here’s the quote:
…Alberto Contador, clearly assisted Valverde at the Dauphiné every time that Cadel Evans attacked. Valverde denied there was an agreement between them but their cooperation was obvious. “If I can help him at the Tour de France, I’ll do it,” Valverde said to a question about the possible help that Contador could look for in case of an offensive by Lance Armstrong. “But if I have to attack him, I’ll do it as much as he’d attack me.”
and would you stop calling it "baby blue" .... it's turquoise
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
The way I read the article, Contador was saying who would be strong in the
Tour besides him.
How can he not name LL and LA as contenders, even if they are his teammates?
Bad luck, crash etc. is all you need to change the dynamics within the team.
That Astana has many possible captains surely plays in JB’s favor, keep other teams guessing.
Contador seems to be highly respected among other riders, that for sure won’t hurt him.
"...keep other teams guessing"
That’s what I mean by “bluffing”.
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
Armstrong gets the headlines
but I think AC drops him (and Levi) in the first big climb – internal conflict over.
First big climb would be the opening T.T.
Not a big climb in the normal sense of the word but it will sure be one of the deciding points in this Tour. GC riders will be up in GC from the start. If you want to ride the whole tour in yellow this year’s tour presents the easiest way to accomplish that.
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
Absolutely
Contenders need to show up on day 1, ready to go
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
definitely
if contador does take the win (which i think he will), he might be a candidate for the least-bothered-by the media winner ever. which, i suspect, is how he likes it..
Tempest in a teapot
I’d love to see LA kick Contador’s butt, and if he can he should… but it’s a pretty implausible scenario. Nothing we’ve seen this year indicates Lance will be that good. As long as Contador is riding as we assume he will, LA and LL and the rest will fall in line… opening TT results notwithstanding.
But if Contador seriously stumbles… well, yeah, that could get interesting. I just don’t see one of his teammates being strong enough to take advantage.
plus 1
on what tgartner, punctured and Jens said. JB will want to win, period. It’s up to Bero to do his thing, or not.
I'd really hate to see
this TdF turn into one huge CdE-wooing-Bert fiesta del amor.
I think it would be such a betrayal of the riders currently on the team that should be getting their fair shot now that AV is out of the way.
what, you have something against fiestas del amor?
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
"fiestar" away
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
we always just used "fiestar" at college
party on
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
No
Jens has a mancrush on David Arroyo, dating back to the Giro.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Aren't you over assuming Jens is a male here? ha ha. :-P
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
Good point. Carry on then. ha ha!
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
Wow , tough times keeping up here at the cafe
I go to sleep for a few hours and I have a major lifestyle-change.
Come to think of it. I am thirties, single ….not so neat though.
LOL Jens, I'm sorry I took advantage of your down time.
ha ha!
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
On a serious note,
Another one of those funny taboos, eh? Sports people can not be gay. An especially important rule in football, it seems, but even in cycling, with men playing with each other in spandex (so to speak) and it being a rather low-profile sport, such “life style choices” never ever get mentioned. Perhaps it’s not a negative thing; why would their private lives be of interest to us? Ah well.
On a less serious note,
well, Sastre and CSC sweeped the table last year, now we'll have a good fight.
Evans and his much better looking team and Menchov with a very solid back up team, Astana, if in-sync, looking very good and Sastre with a united team, Saxo with a monster roster…
The Tour should be great!
Too bad CVV had the bad crash at the Giro.
Will be great to see (if Piti gets banned) how Lulu will do too.
Where has LuLu been?
I was very surprised to see him in neither the Dauphine or the TdS.
historicalness
Does the Route du Sud bear any resemblance to the old Midi-Libre?
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Tour seems to be a lock
I can’t imagine Caisse leaving him off the Tour roster particularly without Valverde. Guessing it will be either LuLu or Arroyo as captain.
resting
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
kind of ironic
that I’m getting Catherine Zeta-Jones plugging T-Mobile at the top of this post ;)
It’s like rain on your wedding day.
bow down to the wisdom baby, you know you want to
10,000 spoons, when all you need is a knife
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
What is really ironic
Is that her examples of irony sucks.
Bork, bork, bork!
by TheFigurehead on Jun 16, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
I had a friend who was in a band that opened for A. Morissette on a tour. Apparently on the last night of tours everyone plays pranks on each other, and he devised a plan to go out on stage during that song with a dictionary, and point out the meaning of the word “ironic”…
He never got up the balls to do so, guess he was scared she wouldn’t pay him ;)
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Good choice
Am guessing, if there are people out there who hadn’t learned how badly butchered her understanding of the word was, they weren’t going to be converted by his logic.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
true – though you never know – I’ve always found that life has a funny way of turning around when you think everything’s OK.
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I just never thought of many of her examples as true ironies, just bad luck really.
Rain on your wedding day, nah. Unless you lived in Seattle and moved your wedding to, well, somewhere it hardly ever rains.
The guy on the plane, yea.
Ed Byrne put it best, really
here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TVSTkAXg
Ô col Bayard, Ô Tourmalet, à côté du Galibier, vous êtes de la pale et vulgaire bibine !
i think Contador will have the support of the team
If Armstrong dropped in the first climb, maybe they put one guy to help him, but no more. LA is the only who could take some risks, the others are loyal helpers, Levi, Kloden, Zubeldia, no doubt that they will help him. Levi should prefer to be subcaptain, until now worked perfectly for him, why change now!! Kloden is to weak in this days even to help, Zubeldia when was hired knew exactly what will do (is spanish too)…so LA is the only who can shake the team, but i don’t believe..
This messages from Conta, i think is most show off from the media, than the exactly words that he said…
Hope for Paulinho in Tour, but i’m not much confident about that, probabily Navarro or Jeusus…
I'm hoping for Jesus H. Christ knows what he's capable of doing, I sure don't.
But I got him for 1 VDS point so I want him there just in case.
neither is dani
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
yep... benja is conta's shadow, roommate, best bud on the squad
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
[religious sacrilege not really intended]
Well . . . once you let your own father mess you around, what are you gonna expect on the pro tour?
heh
impossible not to laugh when someone mentions the “H”
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, Blondie?
There are two kinds of avatars my friend…
it’s all good, sempre ;-)
O lactic acid, where is thy sting?
my only hope
is because Paulinho is better time trialist than the others domestiques spanishs…
by semprenaroda on Jun 16, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i really don't see them leaving sergio off the tdf squad
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
i don't think
that la will be dropped so easily. Eventually yes, but not right away. He has looked pretty good so far. Not top contender good, but top ten good. That might be enough for astana fireworks during the tour. The thing that i think might dampen things is that first time trial in monaco. So far LA hasn’t been so great on his time trials. Unless he’s been bluffing he’s going to start the tour already a ways behind contador who i imagine will do quite well on that course. On the other hand that initial tt is not so long is it? So maybe no huge time difference there.
Astana did not meet the deadline today.
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/090616_astana_stort_geld_niet
They could try again tomorrow but the guy representing them in negotiations again says he thinks that’s a bad idea. He doesn’t think the UCI can legally demand the extra guarantees. Will the UCI pull their license?
I think he also says that if the UCI pulls the license the team can continue without Bruyneel and Armstrong, that would be his advice. I’m not sure they automatically get Pro Conti status but maybe so.
Another story that makes it seem like things are not good at all between Bruyneel and the Kazakhs.
I tink they are claiming Bruyneel has misused funds.
This is so classically Leninist it's breathtaking...
…how do you cover up your own mismanagement of funds? Accuse your critics of mismanaging your funds. I’m…it’s…remarkable, let’s just leave it at that.
Ugh, I meant Stalinist...
Think before typing Ed, remember.
Hm
Am guessing there are more recent examples, but I shan’t go there…
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes probably...
…but it’s so much more fun to cite the classical sources.
You never know.
Bruyneel has a reputation of being quite the hardliner himself. I thought it was interesting that Horner said he never had any problems getting paid. Who knows what is actually going on behind the scenes. I bet it’s very interesting.
Horner
Horner and Leipheimer both said on the record that they had received their salaries. Also, the riders who raced at Catalunya also told l’équipe on the record that they had been paid.
So, is the riders not being paid story a fabrication?
Eh
bank guarantees, no? This is funding for later, I am guessing. Anyway, salaries are only part of the expense.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
But the story during the Giro was
that the riders weren’t being paid. That was the whole thingy with the faded sponsors and such. Then, we started getting press statements from riders to the effect that actually, yes, they were being paid. Er
And yes, bank guarantees are required for pro tour teams – the original Astana guarantee is being held against the positive/sanction case against er, whathisname. This is why they needed a new one.
This additional fee, not so sure, what rationale the UCI is offering. More power plays, really.
Looks like
A he said, he said dealio. Just read the short blurb in l’équipe on this story.
The Kazakhs are saying that they have met their obligations in terms of the team budget. They said if there are riders and team staff going unpaid, they need to take it up with Bruyneel. The Kazakhs are pretty much saying here that either Bruyneel is lying about not receiving the payments or he is absconding with the cash or both. The Federation claims that Bruyneel has received the money.
Bruyneel responds, “they are taking me for a liar. It is not only the salaries. It is the whole budget which is involved.” He says the money isn’t there.
L’Équipe also reports that the Prime Minister of Kazakh is considering intervening in this fandango. Sheesh.
LOL, I can’t say I know who to believe, the Kazakhs or Bruyneel ;-)
holy shit!
this team is going to explode. No way they make it to the Tour.
ok that’s probably not true…but is it going to be like this every day? wow.
by the way anyone ever read Bruyneel’s blog? Apologies if people like it, but that is the lamest thing I have ever seen. Full of motivational messages. “The difference in winning and losing is most often… not quitting.” Barf.
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
It is a very bizarre story. Serious power-playing going on, and really I’m not sure who I would bet on in this particular horse race.
don't bet on anyone,
just follow Johan’s advice:
There are people who make things happen,there are people who watch things happen and there are people who wonder what happened.How about U?
FUCK KILL ME NOW
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
but then
you’ll be left wondering what happened.
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
heh
perhaps Bruyneel isn’t so lame after all and this is a veiled Fred Willard reference!
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. It's not as if Brunyeel is inherently more...
…trustworthy or believable than the Khazak minister of whatever. And yes, that is a remarkable point to notice.
heh
yeah it is a bit embarrassing. By the way I got it wrong in my original comment, it’s actually his twitter page. Still, you’re right, I’m embarrassed for myself ;)
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
lol I read Astan was willing to pay but the transaction failed
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder
"oh, 6 mil euros?"
“We thought you meant lira.”
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
the plot thickens, indeed
Hmm, it says here there is an article in today’s l’équipe. Perhaps I wander over a do a little ready-poo.
Perhaps?
Is there a scenario where you don’t? OK, surf emergency…
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah they love their basketball. Lots of good French players.
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah that dude is phenomenal
another key piece for another division rival to beat down my Wolves ;)
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
What is the argument for continuing without Bruyneel and Armstrong?
That one seems kind of odd to me.
Key statement
“Woensdag probeert Astana het opnieuw. Ik had hen nochtans geadviseerd dat niet te doen, want juristen hebben uitgezocht dat de UCI het recht niet heeft om die extra garantie te eisen.”
Actually, I don’t know what that means. But something is happening Wednesday.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions
Astana will try again tomorrow
But some lawyer have advised them not to pay, since the UCI don’t have the right to ask for an extra bank guarantee. Something like that.
Bork, bork, bork!
by TheFigurehead on Jun 16, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
THe new cyclingnews tried to unravel this one...
It still made no sense.
by Christopher See on Jun 17, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Which is better.. In the country with one eye..
Or.. I’m indispensable..
Or.. I’m indispensable..
‘De Kazakken hebben aan de UCI wel laten weten dat ze geprobeerd hebben het geld over te maken, maar dat hen dat niet gelukt is’, vertelt de Nederlander Rinus Wagtmans, die bemiddelt voor de Kazakse bond.
Or.. I’m indispensable..
‘De Kazakken hebben aan de UCI wel laten weten dat ze geprobeerd hebben het geld over te maken, maar dat hen dat niet gelukt is’, vertelt de Nederlander Rinus Wagtmans, die bemiddelt voor de Kazakse bond.‘Woensdag probeert Astana het opnieuw. Ik had hen nochtans geadviseerd dat niet te doen, want juristen hebben uitgezocht dat de UCI het recht niet heeft om die extra garantie te eisen.’
Or.. I’m indispensable..
‘De Kazakken hebben aan de UCI wel laten weten dat ze geprobeerd hebben het geld over te maken, maar dat hen dat niet gelukt is’, vertelt de Nederlander Rinus Wagtmans, die bemiddelt voor de Kazakse bond.‘Woensdag probeert Astana het opnieuw. Ik had hen nochtans geadviseerd dat niet te doen, want juristen hebben uitgezocht dat de UCI het recht niet heeft om die extra garantie te eisen.’The Kazachen let know they tried to send the money to the UCI’s bankaccount but it failed says the Dutch Rinus Wagtemans who mediate(?) between the UCI and Kazachse bond
Or.. I’m indispensable..
‘De Kazakken hebben aan de UCI wel laten weten dat ze geprobeerd hebben het geld over te maken, maar dat hen dat niet gelukt is’, vertelt de Nederlander Rinus Wagtmans, die bemiddelt voor de Kazakse bond.‘Woensdag probeert Astana het opnieuw. Ik had hen nochtans geadviseerd dat niet te doen, want juristen hebben uitgezocht dat de UCI het recht niet heeft om die extra garantie te eisen.’The Kazachen let know they tried to send the money to the UCI’s bankaccount but it failed says the Dutch Rinus Wagtemans who mediate(?) between the UCI and Kazachse bondWe are going to try it again on wednesday. I’ve advied not to pay because my laywers told me the UCI haen’t got the right/power to demand those extra guarentees
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder
Uuuh.. What happened?!?!
Which one is better? In the country with one eye.. Or.. I’m indispensable..
‘De Kazakken hebben aan de UCI wel laten weten dat ze geprobeerd hebben het geld over te maken, maar dat hen dat niet gelukt is’, vertelt de Nederlander Rinus Wagtmans, die bemiddelt voor de Kazakse bond.
‘Woensdag probeert Astana het opnieuw. Ik had hen nochtans geadviseerd dat niet te doen, want juristen hebben uitgezocht dat de UCI het recht niet heeft om die extra garantie te eisen.’
The Kazachen let know they tried to send the money to the UCI’s bankaccount but it failed says the Dutch Rinus Wagtemans who mediate(?) between the UCI and Kazachse bondWe are going to try it again on wednesday. I’ve advied not to pay because my laywers told me the UCI haen’t got the right/power to demand those extra guarentees
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder
uuuh.. nvm..
It’s in the land of the blinds… I have to go to bed
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder
fantastic!
Gertrude Stein is that you?
by plinytheelder on Jun 16, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Vino
CAS ruled Vino couldn’t come back until July 24th. I’m pretty sure the Kazakh money was only going to show if he was allowed to return for the tour. No Vino, no Euros.
i know this will be met with much booing but
i really, really wish johan would just bench bert. (and, yes, i’m completely serious.) i want to see la complete; not replay jan’s last pitiful internal team struggles.
if LA really wanted to compete, maybe he should have picked a team that did not have the world’s best stage racer already on it.
he's there because of johan. bert's presence is incidental.
yes, i’m admittedly a big lance fan but bert doesn’t inspire me. lance does and i want him going into the race with a fighting chance.
if astana goes into this race at each other’s throats, i recognize that it will be high drama for most people but for me it would just be sad.
yep... conta go zoom.... then zoom.... then zoom.... then zoom........
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
your opinion
you’re entitled to it. But Bert was there first, and I’m confident in saying he wasn’t told LA would be showing up. Lance is the one intruding here. Honestly, I wish they were on separate teams. If only Lance signed with Bweeg or Katusha or someone who otherwise wouldn’t really be in the GC conversation, then his presence would add a lot more intrigue, rather than messing up the existing intrigue.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
My head just exploded trying to process that...
…the French hate him because, well just because, but then he suddenly makes one of their irrelevant teams relevant, and so they… hate him? love him? collectively check into a mental institution?
Maybe
he could pledge allegiance to the Vendee region and talk about how mean people are in Bretagne.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
yep, booing here.
benching Bert? You gotta be kidding me??? The winner of the triple? It’s ok to be a fan of LA, but come on…
Geez, and double geez, are you kidding me.
I want to see LA make a comeback and make people eat crow in a big way. But to wish for Bruyneel to bench AC is insanity. Conta is almost a lock for the top spot. LA is like Chris says, a big ?. And Lance is not going to be denied a fighting chance, not by a long shot. I think all this will be good drama and Astana/UnkownTeamName will emerge victorious.
Bench AC, what did I say a long time ago about opinions?
For what? Getting Astana/Discovery almost all their big wins the last 3 years
how dare he win all 3 GT’s these last 2 years, how dare he win 7 times this year, how dare he be a huge favorite at the Tour this year, and how dare he sign for a team at a time when LA wasn’t anywhere close to returning. Bert has done more than enough to be a guaranteed leader, if it weren’t LA, there wouldn’t be any sane person talking about not having Bert be team leader. He deserves better than this after all he’s done for Brunyeel these last few years and damn right he speak his mind about this. Your opinion yes but I am vigorously booing it.
more booing
it is of course perfectly well to have your own opinion.
but le tour without Bert? Evans will be happy, and Sastre, and Menchov, and Andy, and …….LA is not on that list.
unless of course you manage to get rid of all those guys.
what a lovely world it will be then….enjoy your LA love.
glad I’m not in it.
i don't know that any of them would be happy if Bert was out
for example, if Cadel had won last year it would probably have come off like Cunego’s Giro. my guess is they’ve all been working up to it and now they’re ready to race it against each other, so let ’em at it, Bert included.
And
Drew will be racing cross against him in Mass.
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 16, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
If you wanted to be a US Senator
1. distance yourself from a kleptocratic nation
2. support your team leader
3. raise your already incredulous bar
4. raise $10,000 a day.
5. hire really good oppo researchers.
I’ll stop now…
Abruzziamo!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 17, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
We'll get to check Chris Horner's form in person on Sunday...
All over the local news-Lance, Levi & Chris Horner are riding the Nevada City Classic near Sacramento on Sunday. Was looking for something to do on Father’s Day…
Mess
About Contador referring to Armstrong and Leipheimer as rivals, he’s been saying that for weeks, for months. It’s nothing new. I don’t think it’s controversial or even disrespectful. It’s quite normal, and nothing to get het up about.
Leaving aside Armstrong, who wasn’t on the scene as a potential rival in past years, Contador has consistently spoken of Levi and a teammate and rival in a friendly way. When listing the top contenders in a race, he can’t very well overlook Levi, who is obviously a contender. Levi must be mentioned in a list of rivals, out of respect. It would be disrespectful and controversial not to list him.
If you consistently read his interviews, you see the pattern. It’s no big deal.
Rini Wagtmans
Is not just some legal adviser. It’s a TdF stage winner / yellow jersey wearer!
Link
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
In a column Johan Bruyneel is very outspoken
He lists Contador as the top contender for the TdF. Best climber among present-day riders. By far the best time trialist among the mountain goats. Close to the specialists among the time-trialers.
He names the Astana team for the TdF a DreamTeam. He blames the troubles Astana had in stage-races earlier this year on the combined attacks of other teams.
Contador is their man in the TdF. He understands that many eyes will follow Armstrong but if he takes into account the Giro he’d put Lance behind Contador and Leipheimer on a quality scale. His teammates don’t form a threat for Contador but they are a threat for other teams. This lays the ball in their court. But in the end the strongest man will probably prevail anyway.
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
yeah, that was at cn a week or so ago
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
eh you say?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Did anyone catch that Versus
is having about 8-10 hours of coverage on “Lance’s Best Stages” and one hour of the coverage is simply titled “The Look Back”. Not hard to imagine the focus of their tour coverage this year.
But it was still exciting to see the TdF preview show up on my tivo “to do” list!
Never rains
but it pours
TAS has determined that Vladimir Gusev must be compensated with a large sum of money, including legal fees thus far incurred by him, despite the economic situation is not flourishing.
http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/index.php?page=news&cod=22671&tp=n
Gusev
The Gusev case is interesting. TAS has ruled that Bruyneel’s management company owes Gusev legal fees and damages, and that he was wrongfully dismissed from the team. Also, Bruyneel did not want the decision to be made public, but TAS ruled that to repair Gusev’s image the decision would be published.
Gusev will return to racing at the Russian national championships.
So far, two toe beachy is the onlyn one to pick up the story. The full decision isn’t yet on the tas-cas webby.
I doubt
that this will be the straw that breaks the kazakhs bank, though….
No, don't think so
Actually, I think the original bank guarantee from the team was being held by the UCI against this case. And actually – lightbulb over gav head – maybe this is why Bruyneel was claiming that the riders not being paid. He did not want the Gusev case to be public, while at the same time, the UCI was demanding another bank guarantee.
Now, what I don’t quite understand how the Kazakhs will react to this decision, because the TAS decision says the Bruyneel’s management company is liable for the damages.
Oooooooooooooooooo
Oh My! This could get kinda ugly, huh?
So is this more “All My Children,” “As the World Turns,” or “General Hospital?”
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