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ASO to Boonen: You Don't Smell Right

Apologies to Plinytheelder, who fanshot this already, but this story needs a larger discussion. Tom Boonen has been disinvited to the Tour de France by operators ASO because he doesn't look like their kind of guy. From L'Equipe:

"L'image et le comportement de Tom Boonen sont incompatibles avec l'image du Tour de France et celle qu'un champion exceptionnel comme lui se doit de véhiculer"

Translation: Boonen's image and comportment are incompatible with that of the Tour and of a champion (and something about vehicle emissions). This is so, so, so stupid. Here is a short list of reasons why:

1. The charge that he used cocaine is looking doubtful questionable (see comments and fanposts).

2. This has nothing to do with performance enhancing drugs. Never did.

3. Tom Boonen's image is actually worse than that of the Tour? Has he gone on an international killing spree without my knowing? I'd say at worst, their respective images are 100% consistent.Beans_medium

4. Shall we engage in a review of the image of every rider to be allowed into the Tour in recent years and whether their images were compatible with the sainted vision the Tour has of itself? Shall we start with all the French riders?

5. Shall we engage in a review of the image of the ASO personnel too? Glass houses and all. Have any of the Amaurys ever cheated on their taxes or spouses?

6. What the fuck is the image anyway? Tom Boonen is a human being, capable of a wide range of behaviors from immature to obnoxious to cool to kind, and so on. I personally see him in a positive light because he was very chatty and friendly at the ATOC. Tom Boonen also lives a highly unusual life, sort of the Madonna of Belgium, hounded by the press day and night. My guess is that the "image" is that of him in the media, who can't stop talking about him for one reason or another. So for the Tour to judge his "image" is incomprehensibly shallow, stupid, petty, arbitrary and awful. The guy has a lot riding on his Tour performance, as do Quick Step. Like all teams they are heavily invested in the Tour. Although I will recognize ASO's legal right to exclude people from its private event, I reserve my own right to call them A HORRIBLE BUNCH OF ASSHOLES for exercising the right in a completely arbitrary manner.

I'll stop now. I can't go on without slipping into >50% profanity. One last note: ASO have said Quick Step can appeal to the French Olympic Committee. It's possible this is ASO's way of scoring the cheap points while hoping someone else undoes the idiocy of their decision. State legislatures do this all the time: "Yay, we passed an important law banning bad hairstyles. Now don't nobody go challenging it in the supreme court. Say, on equal protection grounds." Stay tuned, I guess.

UPDATE! Let Tommeke Ride!  Let them know:

A.S.O.
Immeuble Panorama B
253 Quai de la Bataille de Stalingrad
92137 ISSY LES MOULINEAUX

Téléphone :

33 (0)1.41.33.14.00

Contact TV :

asotv@aso.fr

Contact Presse :
asopresse@aso.fr

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Agreed, this seems like a pretty shitty decision, to say the least. I guess they were scared of the “cokehead wins stage” headlines… (Sorry if that sounds trite, just trying to look at it from their point of view. I don’t agree with the decision, I think Boonen should be there.)

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Too true

And how pathetic is that?

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

L'Equipe wouldn't run that headline.

(Unless it was Armstrong.)

They never ran "EPO User Wins Seventh Polka Dot Jersey "

by Punctured on Jun 18, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh

maybe, I was thinking more of the ASO being scared of the headlines/negative publicity in major newspapers, both in France and elsewhere.

Though it should be said that L’équipe was plenty critical of Virenque, if I remember right.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Point 2 is discussable..

I thought that too.. Until the research which said it could be used as middle to camouflage doping use…

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

"could"?

I’m open to knowing more, but if it’s just a theory, that’s far from any real proof. Also, coke is pretty easy to test for and obviously controversial, so I can’t imagine guys relying on it. That’s like taking testosterone to cover up your EPO use.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

…and who among us hasn’t done that on occasion?

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me

Too expensive. Though I often drink beer to cover up my abuse of oreos.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

See link below

Cyclingnews

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aah didn't get your point I think...

And I don’t have a good feeling by Boonen.. It’s not only the coke but other non cycling related things.. He drove his car total loss when he was drunk, dating 16 year young girls.. But maybe he should ride le Tour.. Only not totally convinced..

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes but

What’s the rule? No immature guys get to ride the Tour? Who will inform Thomas Dekker?

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah porblem with that..

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

is..

or
1. He thinks is God
2. He don’t know his limits
3. He’s a dumbass
4. ….

Dunno..

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

none of which

are grounds for exclusion

"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!

by jsallee00 on Jun 18, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

But.. Due this I really don't care he;s thrown out of the Tour.. I'll support the ASO in this one

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's look at

Anquetil . . . how on earth is Boonen’s image worse than Anquetil’s???

by R Mc on Jun 18, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Similar enough

But apparently, going to really good parties is no longer consistent with the image of le Tour.

by Softie on Jun 18, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I meant the whole

post-riding strange family sexual harassment thing.

by R Mc on Jun 18, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

But wasn't Anquetil French?

Personally I don’t care if he’s at the Tour or not. I doubt that’s what he needs right now anyways. Also, Cav is going, so what’s the point?

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jun 19, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nationalism is a major curse of mankind

is nationalism.

and it even affects less important things like cycling.

In France, Virenque (Mr Festina in tears) is a hero. Moreau a legend, etc. Don’t get me wrong, other countries are no different (Millar a saint in UK; Tyler and Floyd are wronged in the USA, etc).

I dislike blind loyalty, and blind dismissal based solely on nationality/race/sex etc.

In other words ….. nice article

sometimes life is a false flat

by Willj on Jun 18, 2009 2:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Millar really isn't a saint in the UK, you know.

The press go to him for quotes, mainly because he can string two words together, but that’s probably about it.

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

tell that to eurosport

but fair point

sometimes life is a false flat

by Willj on Jun 18, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh

Man, I guess Maradona works too, only I don’t like the ending as much. Madonna, she’s OK by me.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are we just getting use to the coke use story, or what?

He was kicked out last year for what? The guy was a total dumb ass for getting busted again and expecting a different result. And ranting for a different result on his behalf this time, where does that fall, I don’t know.

by sminer on Jun 18, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I ranted last time too

And this time it’s not certain he even did coke. Last time he was a dumb ass, but I still didn’t think they should have kicked him out. This time it seems like he’s not even a dumb ass. Who knows, I guess, but the decision sucks.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, if he doesn't know if he did coke or not, he's an even bigger dumbass.

Seriously, when your drinking problem prevents you from knowing you did coke or not, you’ve got bigger problems than getting kept out of the Tour.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jun 19, 2009 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why always the "drinking problem" moniker?

If you drink yourself into a stupor once in a while, provided you don’t do it every weekend and don’t try and ride home, where’s the problem?

by tedvdw on Jun 19, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

as long as he doesn’t get behind the wheel any more. I also don’t think it is our business what he does off the bike. Why do we forget these guys are human.

I have never taken coke so can not speak for him but maybe him saying he didn’t know if he took it is being honest. If someone did spike his drink is it possible he didn’t know? Is it possible Tom is being honest…and again I think lawyers are also helping him speak.

by cyclingdiva on Jun 19, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, though see point 1: the difference between last year and this year is that this year, it seems he may not have used coke after all.

I know that from a certain perspective, this sounds like an “I didn’t inhale” argument…still, the ASO seems to be effectively charging him with guilt by association.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

but...

WTF was all that about having a drinking problem? Didn’t he say that’s why he did coke? Why would he say that if he didn’t do it?

"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!

by jsallee00 on Jun 18, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I don't buy it.

I absolutely think he should ride the Tour but this whole innocence quest is very unconvincing.

by mysterion on Jun 18, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK

but if I remember right, what he said was this: the other night I was drinking, I got so wasted that I blacked out, and since I failed the test for coke, well, I must have done coke. I don’t remember because I blacked out, but it must have happened.

I could be wrong, but that’s how I remember it.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um, wow.

I’d say that’s entirely plausible. God knows I think we’ve all had experience with people, really drunk, doing stuff that they ordinarily might refrain from, and also, at times, not remembering it.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honeslty, I also don't care.

And I think a huge number of people in the 21st century also don’t care. People do coke. A lot of people, at one time or another, do coke. It doesn’t make you a bad person, even if it’s not a great health choice, has real dangers of addiction, and tends to make you socially insufferable when you’re on it.

At a certain point, this starts to feel like politicians getting all worked up and upset about people performing sex acts that everyone is pretty much totally comfortable knowing about, except when it serves someone’s interest to make a fuss about them. It’s totally silly, prudish, bullshit.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, He should ride.

His team should also help him get counseling if he does have problems.

by mysterion on Jun 18, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

to be clear

I think he should ride too. I was jus confused by the sudden proclaimation of innocense.

"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!

by jsallee00 on Jun 18, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lefevre managed to get some experts to say that something..

…was wrong with the levels in the test. Having administered drug tests as part of a hiring process in a job I had a few years ago, I can say that there are definitely minimum levels before the test can be called conclusive. Now the ones I administered were nothing, precision wise, compared to what I expect was being used here, but the point of the expert analysis seems to be, um…. this is kinda shaky.

All Tom’s saying is, “dude, I really did black out. I have no idea.”

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

If only...

this could be the final word on the issue. Well put Ed.

by Uncle Ted on Jun 18, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not the coke, it's the trainwreck that is Boonen

I wouldn’t want that guy riding my race either. Not to mention, anybody that cares about his well being shouldn’t want him to be racing the Tour. Too much stress at a time when he needs to be taking care of himself. But as far as the “a lot of people do coke” thing, I’m not familiar in the slightest with people who do or have done coke. I would say that the average person doesn’t either unless they don’t know how to pick friends.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jun 19, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

...

That’s a harsh statement.. Coke is not only used among friend but only to give an energyboost to people who work to freaking long

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 19, 2009 4:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't believe it's harsh

Of course I am the exception, I’m in the military so I have the privilege of working with people that I know don’t have such problems. But truthfully, I would be the same if I weren’t in the military. The cure for working long hours by the way Frinkster is a good espresso and sleep, not coke.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jun 19, 2009 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

“I’m in the military so I have the privilege of working with people that I know don’t have such problems.”

Really! All right then, carry on!

by tedvdw on Jun 19, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I never used coke..

But i don’t like to sleep and I don’t like espresso. so… Only Red Bull left I pressume

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 19, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

nah, dude, you gotta try the blow, what are you, scared?

by plinytheelder on Jun 19, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.. I'm sacred

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 19, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

fantastic

should we bow and pray to you?

by plinytheelder on Jun 19, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Minimal

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 19, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure

that was some lawyer talk and some truth. I believe he doesn’t remember. He drank too much and doesn’t remember. IMHO

by cyclingdiva on Jun 18, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

he as good as admitted it

so even if he really didn’t use it this time, well…

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I 100 per cent agree...

This is beyond asinine. Since when is it the job of athletic organizations to decide which athletes are and are not welcome to compete in their events based on standards having to do with the athlete’s personal morality. Fuck that shit. Yes I know cocaine is illegal in Belgium, but seriously, have we not gotten over this totally stupid moralizing bs yet?
 
I hope Lefevre sues their ass and wins. This is grotesque.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Of all people

I trust that Lefevre will do all that is humanly possible to fight this.

by cyclingdiva on Jun 18, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right to exclude

Does ASO have the right to exclude anyone they want, for whatever reason? I think this was discussed at length last year with regards to Astana’s exclusion.

Is this, effectively, a private party?

Or, by agreement, are they required to take all Pro Tour teams. The make-up of which is determined by the team.

This is a completely distinct argument. “Can They” v. “Should They”

by johnw on Jun 18, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Having the right (can they?—and it is questionable whether they can if Lefevre is going to sue)...

…is, as you say, very different from being in the right (should). Chris’s point, I think very clearly, is that they are in the wrong (they should not).

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, anyone can sue

Winning is another thing.

I’d like to see Boonen ride. Even if he did use cocaine.

But, Chris, I think point 1 is a bit overstated. My reading is that one of two experts hired by Lefevre said that maybe he didn’t snort, and just came into contact with the drug. The other disagrees and feels that the only way to get traces of cocaine in hair samples is to actually use the drug

by johnw on Jun 18, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK thanks

Edited to send people to your comment and the other discussions.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, sort of.

In the Belgian press:

  • HNB says: Leuven couldn’t detect cocaine, with a detection limit of 0.02 nanogram cocaine per milligram of hair, Strasbourg detected 0.09 nanogram. “Positive” would be 0.5 nanogram. No mention of later distancing or explanatory note by Leuven.
  • HLN says: Strasbourg concludes only indirect contact with cocaine possible. Leuven now distances itself by saying there is no proof whatsoever that Boonen took cocaine unwittingly. ([tedvdw] Which is unfortunately open to interpretation.) Leuven refuses to give further details: “because we never do that in on-going investigations. But as a toxicologist it is impossible for me to determine how the cocaine may have entered his body.” ([tedvdw] This suggests that he did find cocaine, and/or he accepts that Strasbourg did.)
  • GVA says: initially it was reported that both researchers found the same thing, such small traces that direct use would not be possible. However, Leuven now contests the conclusions and says no matter how small the traces, there would have to have been direct contact.

In summary, it isn’t very clear yet (rolleyes). Incidentally, the professor in Leuven is called Tytgat, translated: “time gap.” Heh.

by tedvdw on Jun 18, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

More to the point...

…all found traces well below the conventionally accepted level for a positive test. So um, wtf…

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

dumb question

wouldn’t it take awhile for coke to show up in hair samples? Wouldn’t you have to be doing coke for some time for it to be present in your hair?

Still, why are they even testing for coke? That just seems crazy to me.

by yeehoo on Jun 19, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that Lefevere hired the experts is interesting.

Boonen’s response to the whole situation (admitting he had a problem with alcohol at the very least) suggests a rather different direction.

Having said that, I think he probably should ride. But if they didn’t let him last year I can see that it’s a bit difficult for them to let him this. My concern is that this is a bit of a blind since we still don’t know how the UCI/ASO/AFLD relationship will shake out with the “proper”, performance-enhancing drug testing stuff.

Then again (that’s about three hands now…), Sando Donati’s remarks at the Play the Game conference also come to mind.

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sandro

entirely incompetent in the typing dept

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tend to find the skepticism about Donati's remarks...

…expressed elsewhere to be rather convincing. If this were really such a common practice, I’d think coke would be banned as a masking agent. The fact that it’s not, especially since it breaks down so damn fast, really makes me dubious.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, though I have a lot of time for Donati.

 I’m not sure he was necessarily saying it was a masking agent.

Having said that, coke is banned in competition. Rugby player recently got two year ban.

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well *in* competition, sure...

…for obvious reasons to anyone who’s ever done it even once.

Also, Rugby player on Coke. Jesus.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You understand that coke is literally *gone* from your system in...

24-36 hrs at most, right?

If he was caught out of comp, it would clearly have had no effect in comp.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

what if taking a bunch of coke makes you train longer and harder, would that have an effect in competition?

by ant1 on Jun 18, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

sure

But I highly doubt that’s the case.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly

I don’t know the answer. If this were US law, then a private entity would retain such rights. I cannot say if there are limitations under French or EU law, or if there are agreements in place which place limitations on an otherwise legal right. At worst, I think ASO have the right to exclude if there’s a rationale.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously they've done it before.

Virenque successfully appealed but the sport was structured different back then. A few years later DiLuca was excluded and couldn’t do anything about it.

by mysterion on Jun 18, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Virenque's image was ok with them.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Jun 18, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm torn on this one...

Of course, I’m a huge Boonen fan, so of course I want to see him ride. On the other hand, at the time I stood up for the ASO when they barred DiLuca in 2004 and unsuccessfully tried to bar Manolo Saiz in 1999.

My opinion is that the TdF belongs to the ASO. Their race, their rules. I think the decision to ban Boonen is stupid, and I hate it, but the choice belongs to the ASO.

Participation in the TdF is the big golden cash cow of the cycling world. Sponsors and stars who get face time on TV during Le Tour get at least as much value for their sponsorship euro then as they do in the rest of the season combined. Thus, all the fighting over the Protour is really fighting over who gets to control invitations to the tour.

In that fight, the UCI and the Protour have not shown themselves to be interested in anything other than getting their hands on the money earned by the ASO’s event. I have grown really tired of hearing doping controls used as an excuse to cover a naked grab for power and money. The race belongs to the ASO and thus the decision on who gets to participate in the race belongs to the ASO. It is their right to make stupid-assed decisions like the one to exclude Boonen.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jun 18, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

No disagreement

But I hate these fuckers for it.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

check that — slight disagreement. Participation is the big cash cow for the teams. But the participation of the world’s greatest cyclists is the big cash cow for ASO too. Two-way street here. You think Vesus ponies up for four years of watching unknown amateurs?

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup

I said this below, but Cav vs. Boonen would have been huge, even if the sprints didn’t play out that way.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I hope and trust that Patrick will do all humanly possible to fight this decision. It is wrong! Tom has done a lot of good for this sport also…lets not forget that, ASO!

by cyclingdiva on Jun 18, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I totally disagree about the ASO and the Pro Tour.

The teams and riders deserve more of the money and power. The race does not belong to the ASO it belongs to the riders. It’s time for the sport to move into the 21st century and find a way to get the riders their fair share. The Pro Tour is a good idea but it was poorly executed.

by mysterion on Jun 18, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Is that kind of like how the means of production in a country belong to the workers? If boonen has enough money to wreck ferraris and supply himself and his middle school love interesests with coke, do you really think he’s not getting his “fair share”?

The race does belong to ASO, that is a fact. The money and fame gotten from doing well in the race belongs to the riders, as long as they got it without cheating.

I think I deserve more power and money, but that does not mean I’m entitled to it.

by ant1 on Jun 18, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that kind of like how the means of production in a country belong to the workers?

Sounds good to me! ;)

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

It sounds good to a lot of people. It just doesn’t really work like that in most places.

by ant1 on Jun 18, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

When the minimum salary for a Pro Tour rider is 24,000 euros something is wrong.

What is the television revenue for the Tour de France? Easily over 40 million euros a year. Probably a lot more.

by mysterion on Jun 18, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s your point exactly? The minimum salary for a pro tour rider has nothing to do with wether or not they should own the Tour. The minimum salary for a McDonald’s employee is even lower, does that give them a valid claim to own the company? And how is 24000 euros a year wrong? How much do you think they deserve for their work? Is it fair when one of them wins a race and gets a prize, while the others do not? 40 million in revenue is a big number. What do you figure their costs are? Or do you assume they just stuff the 40 million in their pockets and not pay any of it out?

by ant1 on Jun 18, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

hate to say it

but 24k euros is still a hell of a lot higher minimum wage than most minimum wages. Yes, it should be more, but a major factor is surely how money is distributed within teams as much as anything. Yes, perhaps the races should belong to the riders but by the same token, perhaps the teams should operate as cooperatives or something!

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, that is the golden rule and I have never heard anyone not respecting it.

by tedvdw on Jun 18, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

so the 24k is more like a base pay...

…good (team or solo) performance gets you more.

by ant1 on Jun 18, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

"I don't smell right?! I'm lucky I can smell at all. Do you know what that stuff does to the conker?"

. In a way I’ll be glad if he’s not there so i don’t have to hear what little reporting there is in swedish media be about a doper (no, they can’t make the distinction) riding the Tour .
Using the image-schtick is nonsense though and beyond hypocritical.

by Jens on Jun 18, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

BTW I'm totally OK with mocking Tommeke for doing the stuff...

…but that’s only because I just have a very low tolerance for people on coke. They’re tiresome.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

The interesting thing here is that the ASO is basically admitting that he hasn’t done anything wrong. Chris has basically said this above, but I think it’s worthwhile to note that the ASO’s entire case is about “image”:

Boonen’s image and behaviour are imcompatible with the image of the Tour de France and the image that a great champion like him owes it to himself to put across.

I realize that that’s a really ungraceful translation, but I wanted to point out 2 things: first, the word “image” is used 3 times (once as a pronoun, “celle”) – I mean good god, 3 times in a singe sentence? Talk about neurosis. Second, check out the condescension – it is absolutely incredible! I’m thinking about the last bit – “celle qu’un champion exceptionnel comme lui se doit de véhiculer” – “se doit” here is key, can be translated as “owes it to himself,” “it’s his duty,” etc. Come on ASO, no one needs your patronizing. What a load of crap.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

suspect

they’re trying to make some linkage to the UCI’s amorphous “we can exclude you if you hurt our image” thing that was raised in the Theo Bos case where his "behavior undermined the image, reputation and interests of cycling." Only I think the UCI’s clause is even weaker, since they do licensing and as I’ve said before they act more like prosecution (bearing a real burden of proof) than a private entity looking after its property.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's no coincidence

Earlier this year ASO and RCS tried to stop Fuji-Servetto from starting in their races. ASO succeded, while RCS didn’t. The reason why ASO was succesful was that they pointed to image, Fuji-Servetto’s participation would reflect badly on ASO and the race. RCS on the other hand said that they had the right to deny Fuji-Servetto, but CAS didn’t agree.

Bork, bork, bork!

by TheFigurehead on Jun 18, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bingo

This is the precedent that the ASO is making sure to invoke. That makes it very difficult for QuickStep to go to TAS.

by Jen See on Jun 18, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ooooh. Good catch.

(mostly in relation to gavia below) I thought Lefevre said he would sue under Belgian labor law though. This may be different than the TAS / CAS precedent, which was intended to exclude a team. It may even happen in civil court.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

haven't seen the ref to belgian labor law

And really, I can’t say I know poo about that thingy ;-)

by Jen See on Jun 18, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read somewhere (God knows where)...

…when the story originally broke, that Lefevre was considering suing on the basis of ‘right to work’ laws. That may have been speculation, so I should be careful about repeating it.

Still, I would tend to say that excluding a single rider on the basis of a non-sporting issue like this is rather a different kettle of fish than excluding a team on the basis of its previous conduct or image in matters bearing directly upon its sporting integrity. It’ll be interesting to see if the precedent about ‘image’ is seen to apply in the same way in this case.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

why?

Boonen has twice mixed himself with the local authorities in relation to recreational drug use. For a race with a doping problem -and by extension an image problem, especially in its home country of France – Boonen is a bit of a nightmare. Thinking adults may be able to distinguish between doping for sport and what Boonen does in his free time, but the two are pretty easily conflated in the media. How man times do you think the ASO really wants to see media stories repeating Boonen’s cocaine fandangos? Not exactly the healthy, pure image that the race would probably like.

by Jen See on Jun 18, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt, but...

…we’re dealing with sporting violations (Fuji-Servetto/Astana) vs. non-sporting violations (Boonen). In the case of the former, the ‘image’ damage specifically impacts the question of whether the competition is being conducted above board insofar as the ASO can argue that these teams, as organizations, have not proven themselves trustworthy. Nothing in the Boonen case has ever been seriously contended by anyone to bear in any way upon fair sporting competition, silly media conflation aside.

If the materiality of the image question had to do with the appearance of the race as fairly conducted (the really big problem with doping), then one can see how TAS might say, well in the one case there’s something there, but in the other, we don’t think so, his problems with local authorities notwithstanding.

I see your point, but TAS has, in my view, tended to be pretty careful about following the letter of rules where they exist, even to the point of ignoring extenuating circumstances that I think a lot of people found more compelling. Given that tendency, I can see them being responsive to an argument that says, ‘do you really want to extend this precedent so far that ASO can just exclude any racer on the basis of whatever ’moral’ standards it feels like throwing up, irrespective of the competitive standards in place?’

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even worse...

…the precedent becomes, “anyone, even as a result of deliberate or careless misunderstanding, who can be made to appear ‘negative’ can be excluded…” My point being, I don’t think this would simply be reaffirming the precedent. It would probably be expanding it rather considerably.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

understandable but

what then is the rule? If the media portrays you in a bad way, you’re out? I still say Boonen hasn’t stepped over any line that ASO has articulated or worried about consistently in the past. They’ve singled him out because of his press image.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, my point exactly...

….except you put it more concisely and clearly, as usual.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

We’re getting dangerously close to “so-and-so has had multiple extra-marital affairs, this is bad for our image. We can’t let him race”. If only there were different words for drugs of the performancing enhancing variety and the recreational variety and people didn’t just run the two together.

by Uncle Ted on Jun 19, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I believe that Saeco and Di Luca

used similar EU / Italian “right to work” laws in ‘04 to get the killer into the TdF. It didn’t work.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jun 18, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

shooting itself in the foot...

Remember last year when Boonen said Cavendish wouldn’t have won all those stages if he’d been there? Well, this was the year for him to back up that statement. I know that personally, the main thing that would have kept my interest up for the flat stages was the prospect of Cavendish vs. Boonen, the battle for the green jersey. Not that Boonen is near Cavendish’s speed these days, but the sniping in the press would have been fun, as would the inevitable “trash-talk” or let’s say trash gestures during the sprints – am I the only one who was looking forward to Cavendish pointing at Boonen as he won, say, his third sprint? Or the reverse? (I don’t really care who wins, I just want the drama.) Anyways, as a business decision, this may turn out to be mighty dumb on the part of the ASO.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions  

If Boonen wants to talk sprint-smack to Cav...

… he should probably start by beating Columbia’s lesser sprinters, which he couldn’t do today against Greipel.

by Noah on Jun 18, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

at least it saves him from the indignity of getting pwned by cavendish!

boonen career – relegated to spring racer who can no longer sit at the ‘cool table’?

"Race radios in Cat 4?"

by gravel road on Jun 18, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Whoa.

I think 3-time Roubaix winners get to sit where they want.

I can't understand why people cheat--Mark Cavendish

by majope on Jun 18, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

For those of you keeping score at home

Monuments:
Boonen = 5 Cavendish = 1

TdF Stages:
Boonen=6 Cavendish = 4

Green Jerseys
Boonen=1 Cavendish = 0

World Championships
Boonen = 1 (road) Cavendish = 2 (Madison)

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jun 18, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

because numbers don't bleed!

boonen 29yo

cavendish 24yo

"Race radios in Cat 4?"

by gravel road on Jun 19, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed, age is key.

I really hope Cav establishes himself, but before we anoint him the next Erik Zabel he still has about a 50/50 shot at being the next Ivan Quaranta instead.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jun 19, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

They set the precedent for this guy last year.

Rant away about the ASO’s decision being stupid and hypocritical and unfair, but Boonen deserves some blame here. We all saw it coming and back then we were saying " Boonen… wtf, you dumbass".

by sminer on Jun 18, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

True...

but if the labs are correct and he didn’t in fact take the coke, then why is he being punished? Also, they need to put cocaine on the prohibited list.

by cyclingdiva on Jun 18, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with this argument...

…is that it implicitly concedes that the ASO’s policy, precedent or not, is anything other than stupid, hypocritical, and just plain obnoxious in the extreme.

Plus, pliny is right: now the only fun thing about watching Cav win the green jersey is going to be taking bets on when brad has to go on medication or stop watching flat stages.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing wrong with conceding a point in an argument

The ASO is stupid, hypocritical, and unfair and many other things, but it seems they have the power to be that way for now.

I agree with pliny on this now too, I love to see trash talking sprinters going at it and making the flat stages more dramatic. So I think I might miss Boom Boom eating crow served up by Cav.

by sminer on Jun 18, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point

they have no intention of reversing precedent. if they include him this year, that means they were wrong to exclude him last year. ironically, they seem intent on preserving their hypocritical image.

Incroyable! Incroyable! Incroyable!

by bikepig on Jun 18, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly, what is the motive?

using the weakest reason (image) they are keeping boonen out of the tdf. but really, why do they want him out?

the answer has to be money, or loss of money if he rides. someone with influence (money) doesn’t want boonen in the race.

Incroyable! Incroyable! Incroyable!

by bikepig on Jun 18, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Power

it is just another move to ensure that everyone knows who has the power. By excluding him they are once again stating that they will do what they want when they want and no one can really do anything about it.

 I don’t fault them for excluding him although I do not like it.

by australopithecine on Jun 18, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Money, power, wha'evah!
In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

by tedvdw on Jun 18, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

"women"

not to mention the prime start times in the opening prologue.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, the money comes from the fact that this is an easy way of burnishing their 'tough on doping' image...

…even if it’s completely irrelevant to doping.

But that’s ok, since actually preventing doping seems to be too hard for them. Instead, bust a few little guys who don’t have the resources to defend themselves, banish one big, fading sprint star with lots of guilt by association inneuendo thrown in, get Anne Gripper to declare that the lack of biopassport results is because the peloton is so much cleaner than it used to be, and the sponsors and broadcasters are appeased. Money.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stapleton? [ducks]

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Jun 19, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Union angle?

I’m just talking out of my ass here (as opposed to every other time, yeah right…) but it seems like in the US sports leagues (management) just can’t ban someone or even impose a suspension for crimes etc. The reason is because there are agreements between the players union and the owners/management that guide such things. If management strikes too hard a line, then the unions can successfully overturn the suspension.

So that makes me wonder what rights does the weak-ass riders union has with the races. For that matter what rights do the teams have. Does ASO have the right to go into the inner workings of an accepted team and single out riders? That I wonder about.

by ursula on Jun 18, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Does ASO invite a conglomeration of riders in the same kit or teams?

As an aside I think that the player’s unions in the US have way too much power. They are on the other end of the spectrum from the rider’s union.

by australopithecine on Jun 18, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree, since in the US team owners have *even more* power....

…sans strong unions, it’d be horrific. Look at the working conditions of most US pro athletes in the 60s and before. Not good.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know much about working conditions in the mid 60s so I cannot comment on that. I imagine it would be pretty bad without strong representation, but the union accepted drug bans are hideously light and that angers me.

by australopithecine on Jun 18, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah it angers me too but that's beside the point

The point being that there’s an agreement in place between the union and owners. Is there one in cycling?

by ursula on Jun 18, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know.

If there is not then is it because it wasn’t offered to the riders to ratify or because the rider’s union is farcical?

by australopithecine on Jun 18, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The CPA, headed by Cedric Vasseur...

…and yeah, weak doesn’t begin to cover it.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weak to the point of nonexistent

Nonexistent……………………………………………………………………………………………………….Riders union

Nonexistent.CPA……………………………………………………………………………………………….Riders union

by sminer on Jun 18, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

That didn't come out right

See, over here you have nonexistent……………………….. and way over there hopefully in the future is an actual riders union. And what there is now is the CPA sitting almost on top of nonexistent so as to be confused with nonexistent. Oh nevermind.

by sminer on Jun 18, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I agree...

The CPA needs teeth…and it has none as far as anyone I’ve ever heard speak about this is concerned.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I agree, and I think this goes to mysterion’s point above about the minimum salary for a Pro Tour rider being $24,000 (or maybe that’s in euros?). I didn’t know that. That’s an absolute joke. As a comparison, what’s the NBA minimum – I think it’s well over a million. I know the sports have vastly different structures/incomes, but there’s no way the disparity should be that great.

Oh yeah, and specifically regarding Boonen, yeah surely there should be some mechanism by which riders can dispute this kind of stuff.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem when compared to major US sports is revenue share.

In those sports the athletes get around 50% of the revenue. With cycling you also have sponsorship revenue but I bet their overall revenue share is in the teens.

The 24,000 euro figure is for a first year pro. The minimum for an established rider is 30,000 euros.

by mysterion on Jun 18, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I agree,

I just think that surely there’s enough money to come up with a livable wage. 30,000 euros a year in Europe is nothing, especially in a career that will only last a few years.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

30 000 euros really isn't nothing, you know.

It’s roughly about median earnings in the UK (£25k), for a start.

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

are you seriously arguing

that 30,000 euros in a multi-million euro sport is adequate? I don’t mean to be snarky, but I don’t see how the existence of millions of poor Britons justifies such a low salary for pro cyclists. It’s one thing to start low with the prospect of greater earnings down the road. But I’m going to guess that the average career of a Pro Tour cyclist is 2 or 3 years, at the end of which they have to either continue to ride in even less lucrative circumstances, or, in most cases, begin an entirely new career, i.e. start their lives from scratch. This just makes no sense to me.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

How much do they make when you count in race winnings, and the value of the free gear they get? And how many of them actually make 24K? I understand how it may not be the best career choice. Hell, I would never do it even if I had the legs. But there doesn’t seem to be a lack of people trying to get in on the deal.

by ant1 on Jun 18, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think it's fait.. Most of the time the squad will pay for them.. What do they need if they are riding te Tour for example..

Second.. Pro Tour riders have a much longer average career than 2 or 3 years.. Most of them ride in the peloton between 25 and 32.. I think the average career is 7 years.. That’s long enough and Contador earns 2 miljon dollar or euro.. Think most of the riders earn more than the minimum

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that true? I don’t really know. I remember hearing a number for basketball a few years ago, apparently the average NBA career is 2 years. In other words, for every Kobe Bryant, there are dozens of A.J. Guytons. And if you think about it, there are plenty of guys in cycling who go to Belgium, manage to get a short-term pro contract, and then never get heard from again. Read Joe Parkin, he’s very interesting on this.

Anyways I shouldn’t say more until I know the actual numbers…where did you get the 7-year figure from? I’d be interested to read anything dealing with this.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

7 year is out of the blue.. Don't have evidence for that but if you look to a random team in cqranking

and you click on the riders.. The most rider serve already a couple of years in the PT.. For example the Rabo squad.. It seems that if riders stick in the PT they stick there for a couple of years

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have I said it's adequate? Of course it's not. But that's not my point.

What I am saying is, that if you earn £25k pa you aren’t certainly aren’t poor. That is a good wage by most people’s standards. In my profession, that is what I have attained after 12 years of hard work with not much prospect of earning any more. My starting salary was around £12 k.

Now, I imagine I will have a longer career than a professional cyclist, indeed I may have already done so. But should a few years in a sport necessarily set you up for life? In Britain, footballers used to go off & run pubs & sport shops. Cyclists would do similar. But they wouldn’t be the only people who had to retrain or go back to college or start again. Happens to so many people.

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have I said it’s adequate? Of course it’s not.

If it’s not adequate, and yet there is adequate money available – more than adequate, considering that cycling, while not soccer or basketball, is a huge business – then I can’t understand why more adequate amounts of money couldn’t be provided.

But should a few years in a sport necessarily set you up for life?

Did I say it should? I am saying that there should be an allowance for the fact that it’s an incredibly short career. And I’m guessing that there are a few cyclists who might not want to “go off and run pubs and sport shops,” who might have somewhat different aspirations.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know I don't think we actually disagree.

Or not that much anyway.

I’m guessing that there are a few cyclists who might not want to "go off and run pubs and sport shops," who might have somewhat different aspirations.

 & what’s stopping them? Plenty of other people go do & do it, go back to college, retrain, having earned the same or even less.

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m saying that there’s enough cash in cycling – in the Pro Tour, anyways – that there doesn’t have to be 24,000 or 30,000 euro salaries. You seem to disagree. That’s cool.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, I didn't (intend to) say that, nor do I think it

To clarify, my points were:
a) I don’t think the comparisons with “major sports” so-called in terms of salary are all that useful;
b) 30 000 euros (or for that matter 24 000) in Europe really aren’t “nothing”.

C’est tout. :-)

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

incidentally

A French secondary school teacher with 5-9 years’ experience can expect to earn 24 800 euros pa. Makes running a pub look like a better option.

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't understand your point.

The fact that French teachers earn shit, like teachers all over the world, is justification for paying others shit?

If you’re annoyed by my saying that 24,000 euros is “nothing,” I’ll retract the comment – it is indeed not nothing. Let me rephrase what I said: in a multi-million euro sport – perhaps not multi-billion euro, like soccer or basketball, but certainly multi-million – there is no reason to pay cyclists 24,000 euros per year. As I said above, if you disagree, that’s cool.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem compared to major US sports

(or major sports anywhere, football immediately springs to mind) is revenue full stop.

Cycling, like it or not, just isn’t a “major sport” in the same way. The minimum wage for a 23 year old cricketer is about £16k. That makes 24 000 euros look like a good deal. I bet a few women pro cyclists would bite your hands off for 24 000 euros too.

by civetta on Jun 18, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

…as would minor league baseball, basketball, hockey players. I’m not saying it’s nothing. I’m also not saying that there’s as much money in cycling as there is in other sports. I am saying that there’s enough cash there to have a minimum salary of more than 24,000 or 30,000 euros.

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the Union question...

Google produced the following very interesting legal analysis of where cyclists stand (at least vis a vis US labor law) in relation to teams and the formation of unions.

http://www.stepanlewis.com/Stepan_UCI_Article_October2005.pdf (PDF, opens in new window)

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

no earphones for 2 stages of Tour

I guess this should be its own post, but the UCI has just agreed to suppress the use of earphones for 2 stages of the Tour (14 and 17). source

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

no shit?!

Incroyable! Incroyable! Incroyable!

by bikepig on Jun 18, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol.. Thanks.. I also stole your Boonen story ;)

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah, we’re all one big happy family here ;)

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Race drama!

Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.

by Josenka on Jun 18, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who cares about the TdF anyway . . .

It’s image is not up to my standards. I much prefer the Giro!

by DeathBredon on Jun 18, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Really, it's a contest.

What ruling body can be more incompetent/inconsistent: ASO or UCI?

Or mayhap ASO will decide to re-invite Tom at the last minute to have attention on Boonen Vs Cavendish rather than, say, the Special One.

Clearly the second part’s my daydreaming.

Unless there’s really going to be an international contest to vote Tom or Valv or Vino or whoever else into the Tour.

Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.

by Josenka on Jun 18, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

but would they have to sing

a song, dance a dance, or live with de Vlaeminks to get back in?

by R Mc on Jun 18, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, I vote for like, cage fighting or something...

…it’d be more than a little bit fun to watch Tom and Valv kick the Vino’s ass… and then well, it might even get interesting.

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure...

I doubt I would actually enjoy watching them sing and dance. Maybe a survivor-type reality show where they compete in various contests to see who makes it to the end. Maybe they’d all have to live in a big house during their first year of suspension. at the end of the year, the winner is back in the peloton, and the losers have to serve out their second year in the house.

by ant1 on Jun 18, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last year Nico Mattan competed in the Flemish Strictly Come Dancing/Dancing With The Stars. He got voted off third.


(Really? Tails and a tie?!)

by tedvdw on Jun 18, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

For

drafting another couple when the judges weren’t looking.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

who cares

Obviously if you’re a Boonen fan, but even then, do you really want to watch him rack up a bunch of eighth place rides? He’s not going to contest for the win in my opinion, and if he’s not winning, he’s sitting up, so he can’t even try to lock up a run at the points jersey.

I think there are at least four sprinters faster then Boonen at the Tour, and the Quickstep train isn’t exactly rolling.

I don’t think he’ll be missed. I love Tom in April, but in 2009 in July, bahh.

by PopUp Rolen on Jun 18, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

green jersey = sprints... not

Tom is a maillot vert winner and was looking for another. This is different than winning the bunch sprints, for reasons I am certain you already understand. So, just sayin’, there’s more to it than stage wins. There’s a jersey too, and I wouldn’t give that to Cavendish just yet.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol the first time I notice it..

What does Mr Spock and Boonen have in common?

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Will go completely insane come Pon farr?

by tedvdw on Jun 18, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Their ears!

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha.. Nice everyone enhoyed that..

Some intern jokes has to remain intern I pressume :)

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Frining "It's what he thinks.. But he always do.. I eat my shoe if he ride top 15 in le Tour" about Devolder

by Frinking on Jun 18, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

spock

once climbed Alpe d’Huez in 19 minutes

sometimes life is a false flat

by Willj on Jun 18, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

whereas bones bonked

sometimes life is a false flat

by Willj on Jun 18, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

"I'm a doctor, damn it, not a stambecco."

I can't understand why people cheat--Mark Cavendish

by majope on Jun 18, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exhibit A

in why it’s important to read long comment threads all the way to the end.

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 18, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

ASO

ASO has been in a difficult spot ever since the French Sports Minister declared Boonen unwelcome. It’s a big risk for the ASO to defy a member of the government, when it requires government support to put on the race. Anyone who has ever put on a bike race knows that you need the support of the local authorities in order to succeed. The Sports Minister also likely controls budgets for the French cycling Federation – not like the ASO probably cares a huge amount about that, but they probably prefer not to hurt the locals, if they can avoid it. The Socialist Party in France has taken up the anti-doping cause, in part as a worker safety issue, as I understand it.

This is also why the ASO has said that the French Olympic Committee could over-rule them. That is, the ASO is not going to go out on the limb on this one, without the support of the quasi-government org behind them.

Not an easy situation for Quick Step by any means, and I’m not sure there is much possibility that they will change their minds in France.

by Jen See on Jun 18, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

This is really interesting...

Are they essentially saying please overrule us oh Olympic Committee so that we don’t have to bear responsibility for pissing off the minister of sport.

Meanwhile, in the land of French Socialist Party politics: worker safety is great, and all, but aren’t you also supposed to be fighting for the equitable treatment of workers? Just sayin’

by Ed K on Jun 18, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

For me the simple but obvious question is

would they treat a French rider the same way ….

sometimes life is a false flat

by Willj on Jun 18, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Casquet, the tennis player who was caught on coke,

received a 2 year suspension, so my wild guess is, yes.

by Bruce Suomi on Jun 18, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gasquest left the tournament (he was caught at) after the first round

So probably took the coke out of competition, but got banned because he was caught in comp.

Boonen….there for the grace of god….and then it would be case closed!

by andrewp on Jun 18, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have in the past

Cedric Vasseur was personna non-grata after the Cofidis scandal. The team rode, but Vasseur and Millar were not invited. Vasseur was later cleared by counter-analysis and faced no formal penalties.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jun 18, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dwight Gooden, Tim Raines, Dave Parker, Keith Hernandez

All those guys and many more were suspended for cocaine back in the day. Those guys were Boonen-like stars in baseball at the time.

Why should cycling be different? Especially when cycling has Marco Pantani and Jose-Maria Jimenez to account for.

Sit him down for the year. Then let him come back for the classics next year.

by Mr 60 Percent on Jun 18, 2009 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Thank you Chris for that wonderful rant. You've said all I wanted to say.

I’m mad, and I don’t want to talk about it any more. Laporte=so not on my Christmas card list.

Adrenalina Italiana!

by Albertina on Jun 18, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh, I don't know...remember Hillaire Belloc's "Lines for a Christmas Card"?
May all my enemies go to hell
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel

I can't understand why people cheat--Mark Cavendish

by majope on Jun 18, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let him ride so

Cavendish can give him a proper ass kicking.

by phantom_51 on Jun 18, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions  

If I gave any frack about sprint stages anymore I might care about this

but ever since they have become pre-determined I couldn’t give less of a shit about them.

by Phil H. on Jun 18, 2009 10:50 PM EDT reply actions  

ah come on, it’s not Cavendish’s fault that he’s the fastest, or Columbia’s fault that they’re the best ;)

by plinytheelder on Jun 18, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

But

I’m holding out hope that the deeper the sprint competition is the more chances there are that Cav will lose. I’m also hoping that there will be some stages where he doesn’t make the finale, and that hence the green jersey will be a fun comp.

by Uncle Ted on Jun 19, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Me too, exactly!

Do we need an explainer on what the maillot vert stands for?

Abruzziamo!

by Chris Fontecchio on Jun 19, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

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