Tour de France Stage 7: Post-Stage Thread
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 10, 2009 11:33 AM EDT
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Action! Climbing! Intrigue! Attacks! And an upset winner!
- Brice Feillu, Agritubel
- Christophe Kern, Cofidis, at 0.05
- Johannes Froehlinger, Milram, at 0.25
- Rinaldo Nocentini, AG2R, at 0.26
- Egoi Martinez, Euskaltel, at 0.45
- Christophe Riblon, AG2R, at 1.05
- Jerome Pineau, Quick Step, at 2.42
- Gutierrez, Caisse d'Epargne, at 3.13
- Alberto Contador, Astana, at 3.26
- Cadel Evans, Silence, at 3.47
- [rest of the leaders, s.t.]
And the General Classification:
- Rinaldo Nocentini, AG2R
- Alberto Contador, Astana, at 0.06
- Lance Armstrong, Astana, at 0.08
- Levi Leipheimer, Astana, at 0.39
- Bradley Wiggins, Garmin, at 0.46
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it's called
Orgamazation. We’re working on it.
Your power is turning our darkness to dawn,
Roll on Columbia, Roll on!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 10, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm... ever time you post that...
… you have to move to a new thread…
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Sorry to delete the other thread
thanks anyway Dan!
Your power is turning our darkness to dawn,
Roll on Columbia, Roll on!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 10, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions
No worries...
… I thought I was able to see the drafts of other authors in there the management section. Is that not the case?
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
A Zen Death Haiku
Your commentary
Is now transitory
Like wind on the sea
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
I make the post-stage thread
on the fly, as the race is finishing up. I’ll stick with the post-stage, cuz I have to then email the link to yahoo!…
Your power is turning our darkness to dawn,
Roll on Columbia, Roll on!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 10, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh that's right...
Dewey Beats Truman… I seem to recall some idiot posting that.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Wiggins as a road racer
Much has been made about how he is focused 100% on the road this year, instead of worrying about track. Could we see a top 10 GC guy in the making. Time trials with the best and is able to hold on in the mountains?
Makes Garmin interesting
2 guys in top ten. That can help later if Wiggins can stay. I would think he is actually leader even though CVV is there. I still think CVV’s injuries will hurt him over time. But having a teammate taking the pressure off? I could see that making a difference. But he has Conta, LA Levi and Koeden ahead. No weakness.
People keep writing CVV off because of the injury
But there he is, a minute and a half off of the yellow jersey.
Wiggins, meanwhile, climbed well early in the Giro and disappeared from the face of the planet after that.
I’ll put my money on CVV to finish higher. I would be completely unsurprised if he podiums.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 10, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, if TD is the third such project...
I’d say JV’s doing quite nicely at 2 for 3 right now.
They are all projects of his
None were big names before signed so he is trying to develop them. Tom Peterson is another.
by australopithecine on Jul 10, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Contador was Green-lighted by JB it appeared
Thank God, as that added some much-needed excitement!
You could see AC and LA talking right before Bert took off. It appeared that Bert was green lighted and Lance was to cover Evans and block a bit.
Only one Astana could go… make no mistake that it appeared that LA could have hung with him. JB just got Bert’s deficit back for him, and Astana is even stronger now.
VERY tactical and smart racing by Astana, and they are best to NOT have yellow right now… that was just a bonus.
Ohh Please......
Just admit that Alberto kicked Ass and is the far better rider today… and LA was struggling to keep up..
I’m thinking alberto took the jump, and was singing in his head – " Catch me if you can and know tell me i’m not the Leader of this friggin Team"…
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
They were very clearly talking beforehand
But hey, it suits everyone to pretend LA is the devil.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
and let's hope the team realises that
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
Consider the evidence
Armstrong has been riding on the front—and has been regularly seen one place ahead of Contador.
When he was the big dog for gc, Armstrong NEVER hit the front unless it was an attack.
Therefore, I conclude he’s been riding for Bert for a couple of days at least.
Who is this Tony Martin...never heard of him
a cousin of yours Phil?
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
He's my Brother by Another Mother!
(how many Phil Martin’s are there on PdC??)
by grim grimpeur on Jul 10, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
what kind of German name is Tony Martin,
is he also from Canberra?
by plinytheelder on Jul 10, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah right...
Remember they don’t care about the G.C…..IT’S allllll for CAV
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a good chuckle when one Columbia guy gave Cav his bike afer he crashed
umm I think he had plenty of time to get a new one seeing he was going to be in the “gruppeto” anyway.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
LA must have expected the AC attack
b/c he didn’t do a double-take or react at all when AC popped past him. So perhaps a real teammate, after all?
or put any other astana on it
coz we all know he can
probably, I'm thinking
thought I don’t know that anyone could have kept up with that attack…
Mmmmm Contador is such a pleasure to watch climb.
Makes it look oh so easy.
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
he was going so fast up
and around one hairpin that it was tricky handling
sometimes life is a false flat
Ok, can we stop with the Astana in-fighting theories now?
It seems pretty clear that they are doing the old Lance attacks, Bert sits in…Bert attacks Lance sits it. It’s pretty much exactly what Saxo did last year. And once again, they are using the media as a giant smoke screen to instill questions in their competitors…or at least into us.
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
It's happened tiwce
if you count the cross winds incident.
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
i dont care
its intriguing, screw soap operas
oh yeah! just like pro wrestling
but with emaciated actors instead
Let them continue
As long as I don’t have to believe them I’m fine with it. People are really hearing what they want to hear out of interviews etc.
When I heard the Lance interview I noticed no signs about team rivalry. Most commentators went crazy about the clear animosity. You can easily bent it both ways so everyone can believe what he/she wants.
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
The Silence attack
Not Cadel but the other guy (missed his name…) who attacked and got about 20 metres on the group before being rather easily dispatched back to the pack by Bert. What was that attack meant to provoke? No one seemed to be desperate to chase him down, he had no chance of finishing higher than, what, 10th? He left his team leader back following Astana when he could have been helping – am I missing something here?
I’m no tactics whiz so can someone who has some knowledge explain what that attack was meant to achieve?
My guess
there was talk of the winds on the climb. Cadels first effort was reeled in. Maybe they wanted a guy up there to aid a little in the second attack? Of course Bert blew the doors off before any second attempt so we will never know.
makes sense
I suppose, but if Cadel’s first effort was any guide to his second then I wonder if he would have made it to his teammate. Good to see him attacking a-la DL but there seems a world of difference between his accelaration and Contador’s.
Sure he wouldn't have caught Bert
but he could have passed a few of the many that are ahead of him in GC.
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
I still think...
Valentino Rossi could beat him. But that’s about the only guy…
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Which Lorenzo...
This one?
Or this one?
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God I hate to say it… but Jorge is starting to grow on me. Something about him planting that flag at Motegi and then the way he jumped on the podium… it’s sort of infectious.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Probably, although I don't recall it specifically... unless it was the Dutch TT, I missed that one on vacation...
Last weekend at Laguna Seca was way cool… Rossi fought like a madman and juuuuuust barely missed passing Pedrosa on the last turn of the last lap. The only way Pedrosa won, was because he heard the Yamaha coming up on him and got on the fun handle just in time.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Ohhhh that's right!
I was holding my breath through almost that entire race!
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Maybe a last-ditch effort
before blowing… like Sumi on d’Huez last year?
RAI
getting very excited about Nocentini at the end there… a long time since an Italian had the yellow jersey. Nocentini said he thought he’d done it then didn’t know after Contador attacked. But he was very pleased, French team & all that…
Props to Tony Martin, proving he has the right to white atm
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
So Nocentini gets dropped tomorrow
and Moncoutie gets a ton of mountain points
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
oh my
that yellow and brown combo is truly painful.
one of the few times i would vote for full yellow kit.
*grabs rose colored glasses* Would it not be cool...
… if all the Astana strife is just sandbagging and hoooey, and that the team really is as solid as it appears. That at some point we might have two fantastic athletes: Contador and Armstrong, in the alps and they just open it up and it’s “may the best man win”?
I know that’s not going to happen… but I like to dream.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
this is what every mountain stage is going to look like I have a feeling
Long boring train up the climb and then a couple attacks in the end. When you have four guys to take in attacks it makes it real tough for anyone else.
Why not?
Seems likely. I’ll bet on AC but still.
Definately...
… I just LOVE the mano-y-mano Di Luca vs. Menchov stuff.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
I'm sure we can get Di Luca to come up from Italy to attack him...
… back in the autobus…
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
if i were ASO
id tell di luca right now to saddle up for a TdF next year
Besides the shit that comes out of their mouths
there is no reason to doubt that “the Astana strife is just sandbagging and hoooey”. If you look at how they are riding, it is as a unified team.
And yes, I am a behavioural scientist.
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
The shit coming out of their mouths... is a highly coordinated strategy...
… executed by a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
The Meadows ha! We do not have such cheezy California names in CO
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Run by the rich outsiders
we have names like Colorado Springs, talk about original!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them.
I'll keep it on super-double-probationary-dodecaduple-dog-secret attribution.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
The Colonel Worries Me the Most...
with his wee beady little eyes…
by elmundo_enfuego on Jul 10, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a secret ingredient in his chicken
that makes you crave it fortnightly!
by elmundo_enfuego on Jul 10, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
He's new.
Elmundo…don’t be shy…crashdan can take. We don’t pull any punches when it comes to our movie quoting around here.
Now, move your huge noggin, I’m trying to watch the game!
The at the head on that boy...
… it’s like an orange on toothpick!
HEAD… MOVE… NOW!
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Geez... the German Eurosport commentators...
… sure love using the word “verdammt”.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Maglia Gialla
Has a certain ring to it… I think I’m going to create a saffron pasta dish and call it that.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
I don't think I've ever been so happy
seeing the Accountant take off :-). For sure, that’s the loudest I’ve ever cheered for him.
Neighbours are used to it
Or they should be. Hey – I have no complaints about the parties that happen downstairs… I see it as an opportunity to pick up a little more Spanish ;-)
Post away!
He excecuted somewhat flawlessly as an exceptional teammate didn’t he?
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
+1
He certainly did…. Bert had Lance’s wheel almost the entire way up before Bert took off…. Lance was definitely leading him up the mountain for a designed attack… probably payback for the accidental stage 3 gap! LOL
The attack was designed no doubt
but no way was he hanging on to the wheel of Bert had he tried. NO ONE can match that acceleration.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
SACRILEDGE!
Do you WANT to get shunned Jens? Cause I can gather the bretheren and we can turn our backs on you at any time. Just say the word.
Don’t make us do it.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
The bretheren?
are those the ones who gather in a meadow in Aspen? I believe they’re called Moo-ilram and I do not fear them.
Can i call something now for tomorrow?
Thinking it’s a good stage for Luis Leon Sanchez, lots of descending and without Sammy Sanchez around, yep..
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
I didn't see anyone pulling Bert up, I thought he as 2nd behind Evans
and I don’t think any CdE were near the front.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I think Uran was behind Evans
But I wouldn’t say he pulled Contador, they were going pretty fast all of them
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 10, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It was Uran at the front, he's only 22 so watch out for him in later times
Sanchez was in the first group that came through after the favourites. He was doing fine until AC’s acceleration that split the group into two, he’s still riding himself into form apparently, but lots of downhill is tailor made for him
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Lulu a descender?
I need to pay more attention to him. I love watching a good descender.
Your power is turning our darkness to dawn,
Roll on Columbia, Roll on!
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 10, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
If you didn't spend March gearing up for the Giro
you would have seen him drop like a rock in Paris-Nice.
nibali goes much better....
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
So is it time for Lotto and Saxo to change their tactics?
I really think they have to shed themselves from the peleton early to get the group smaller. No way they will make up time if they wait until the last 5 km with the way Astana can control the lead up.
What should they do?
Take the drive on themselves and watch Astana laughing right behind them? This is just as Lance had said. Astana is as good themselves as the next three teams. Anybody goes they can just sit on. If there were two or three more mountaintop finishes or near there, people could attack, but for this tour the course is kind of eh. I expect attacks though. It is why we need a DiLuca here. He would go nuts and kill himself and burn out, but it would at least be exciting.
I always wondered why some teams didn’t try for a “breakaway Tour” just pound it for the first mountains, and don’t worry that you will die later, if you get 3 or 4 minutes, who knows?
i know
remind me why all the fuss about, “boonen must attend the tour!”…. ?
"Race radios in Cat 4?"
by gravel road on Jul 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Caption of the day.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
JB thinking sweep
A LONG LONG way to go, but JB has to be starting to look at how to sweep the podium for Astana.
Riders have to stay upright and not crack, but I’ve never seen a team this early on actually have the pieces to potentially sweep.
Again, LA and AC spoke right before AC took off… their comments will hopefully confirm it, but it appears that it was a team organized strategy.
Bullshit, AC was saying - f%$&en catch me if you can..
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
AC was saying "Catch me if you can"
but DEFINITELY not to LA… that was to Evans and others…. that most definitely was a planned and well executed attack by AC… Lance was to cover Evans or other GC guys if they countered…
Lance was the teammate he said he’d be… at least for today.
Take of the rose coloured glasses.. It isn't smelling of roses in that team..
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
true
NO DOUBT there are two very big egos involved…. make no mistake that Lance does want to win, and he likely knows that his only chance is is Bert has a bad day in the mountains and LA doesn’t… AND LA is tasked with chasing an attack. Those are a lot of IFs.
So Astana is a team for sure, but there are two guys who think they have a chance to win… maybe 3? But they all know that one of them has a MUCH better shot. When/If LA sees the writing on the wall (and he might have seen it today, depending on how his own legs felt while Bert was rocketing up the hill), he will work for an AC win and a runner up for himself.
Finishing 2nd while riding support for his teammate would, in some ways, do much more for his legacy than winning it. Payback for all of those years that guys KILLED themselves for him.
But he isn't do it for his Legacy... He is doing it to get the cancer message out...
Hey i like lance, i’ve met lance, but i think there are problems in the team, and happy that AC has shown he isn’t there to bend over and take it, but there to make other people bend over…
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
I might not get to buy Hater-tots anymore
except for the possibility that I can continue to hate Armstrong for not conforming to my expectations of his hate-able behavior.
But I think that Armstrong is a realist on both the sporting and marketing levels: and he realizes that Bert’s power numbers trump his AND that the story-line of Armstrong pulling a Hinault on Contador doesn’t do much to promote Livestrong.
LA certainly knows that ...
… the Pyrenees are not the likeliest launching pad for him, with Alberto’s ability to launch multiple strong attacks in a very short space of time. If playing good team mate has him losing seconds rather than minutes in the Pyrenees, there’s no difference between “selfish LA” and “good team player LA”.
Gimme a break....
He spent many years on the Tour getting his message out…. he has those stupid fucking rubber bracelets…. he has his yearly ride here in Austin.
This is not about getting the message of cancer out…. you would have to be a complete brain dead retard or living in a cave in Pakistan not to know about his message of cancer and surviving it.
“THIS” is all about the almighty ego of Lance Armstrong.
by Tha Billdozer on Jul 10, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
are you some sort of satire
to make sure that I moderate any hater posts I think of making? If so, it’s working, and I thank you for the moderating influence.
by bruyere on Jul 10, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What, truth hurt ??
Really, this is not about the message of cancer…. he has been getting that message out and across for over 10 years now.
Prove me wrong…. ya can’t because it is truth.
This has everything to do with is ego and the need to get it stroked…. again, prove me wrong.
If this is about getting the message out about “cancer” where is the pink for breast cancer ?? the team colors lend nicely to the colors for prostate and testicular cancer…. but are those the only types of cancer that are important ?? what about cervical cancer ?? lung cancer ??
Oh, that’s right…. it’s whatever Lance deems as being important to him.
This is about the race and his ego…. and it is about to get a good swift kick in the next couple of days when his team mates dump his ass.
Levi and Alberto will be on the podium and he will be in the wings watching.
by Tha Billdozer on Jul 10, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Billdozer... moderate your tone.
Last warning. 23 years of experience in cycling or whatever you posted before does not give you license to come here and sling that sort of lingo.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Cause I thought what we were here, racial differences not withstanding
was just a couple of old friends, you know, both of us Californians!
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Truth is wrong ??
Prove me wrong in everything I say.
by Tha Billdozer on Jul 10, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
it isn't about truth
it’s about no one caring what you have to say.
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
Look, I don't know who you are on here
but there’s a chance that I sort of know you in real life. And if not, I also know a few people in Austin.
And the one thing about Armstrong is this: he’s an astute reader of reality
And the reality is this: A tour where Armstrong f***s over his own team-mate to win hurts his “brand”.
A tour where Armstrong rides in support of a team goal builds his “brand.” Armstrong’s concept of ego is better developed than you give him credit for.
Most likely....
I know a lot of people in the industry here in Texas and in Boulder CO.
My gripe here is people saying that he is doing this to get the message about cancer out…. Uhm, really ?? come on people.
Who in the known world that follows cycling does not know about his battle with cancer ?? I was in Europe 3 years ago and everywhere you looked people were wearing yellow bracelets…. I would say 3 out of every 10 people I saw had one.
Problem is that when I communicate I am as blunt as a jack hammer…. and some people can not handle that.
But please, prove me wrong on all that I have written.
by Tha Billdozer on Jul 10, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Not opinion.... facts
Based on 23 years of working in this business…. racing, riding, and even dying becuz of it.
PLUS, knowing the person I speak of…. PLUS, I was responding to something that someone wrote that simply is not now, nor will it ever be truth.
If you love Lance so much why not sign up to give birth to his next kid-sicle…. I hear he is accepting applications.
Please, feel free to censor me you communist bastard.
by Tha Billdozer on Jul 10, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
wtf? tirade much? and, boy, do you have this place pegged wrong
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I can't believe you just said that.
If you love Lance so much why not sign up to give birth to his next kid-sicle
I’ve fucking had it with you. You’ve seriously stepped over the line. We asked that you moderate your tone, we asked that you simmer down. We’ve done everything to go out of our way to be polite to you and THIS is how you respond? You shit all over us with this tripe? I realize that either a) you won’t pay attention to this or b) Chris will ban you, so essentially I’m just writing this for my own catharsis, but you are acting like an asshole. That is not a personal attack, mind you, that is fact. And you’ve provided ample evidence to support it.
I’ve fucking had it with you. Absolutely. You’re commentary is worthless and your arguments are based entirely on unsupported personal opinion for which there can be no refutational response. Simply shouting at us that truth is truth doesn’t make it truth. 23 years of experience in cycling hasn’t given you superior knowledge, it only seems to have made you an asshole.
As a matter of showing respect to every member of this board, from the newbies that just signed on that want to learn something or contribute, to those of us who put in a lot of effort to make this place the way it is, you should just cancel your own account, leave and go sit in whatever black hole of verbal vitriol you have crept from, you ingrate.
I can’t believe you would shit on a group of cycling fans like this! What the hell did we do other than hold an opinion that might or might not be contrary to yours. It’s unfathomable! It’s unconscionable. I now you’re new here, because if you’d been here back during some of the other races, or in the off season when the hard core fans are all that’s left swirling around the posts, you would have learned this ain’t the place to spew that shit. And again… when I say “spew that shit” it’s not what you are saying, it’s how you are saying it! Open your eyes, jackass!
Obviously, you believe we’re some sort of group of halfhearted insipid bastards that exists to only ban people that hate Lance, and then join in the koolaid fest while singing hosannahs. We are NOT. We are neither for or against anything but the sport of cycling, which we are all, 100% of us, in support of. You, unfortunately, are exactly the sort of troglodyte that uses phrases like “ghey for armstrong trekkie disco fanboy” and it sickens me.
So please, you imbecile, go away.
Got a problem with anything I’ve said? Use the contact page on my website to send me an email, it’s linked in my profile.
(These comments are entirely the opinion of Daniel and are not meant to make an official statement of any kind on the part of PodiumCafe or any of it’s editors or members. It’s my opinion only that you’re an asshole, asshole.)
Takes three deep breaths… Rereads comment… Clicks post.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
by crashdan on Jul 10, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Out of all the words you've ever written here, these have been the best.
And that’s saying something. Thank you, Dan.
You know what pains me the most?
This was a perfect “opportunity” to tell someone to go get their fucking shinebox, and I blew it.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
Dude, are you fucking this up?
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
And that is the difference...
Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head there.
I can’t believe you would shit on a group of cycling fans like this!
or in the off season when the hard core fans are all that’s left swirling around the posts
Uhm, I am not a fan…. fans sit on their ass wishing that they could do what they are watching others do…. I am a participant…. I am a cyclist through and through.
Been riding since I was 5 years old, been working in the cycling industry since 1986, have participated in races in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, and Texas, have done multiple long distance tours including a 45 day 4 Corners Tour.
I ride to and from work every single day in a town that claims to be the cycling capital of Texas (which it is not).
I died in a race after hitting the pavement and suffering a grade 3 concussion, breaking my collar bone, and dislocating my left thumb…. not to mention the serious road rash.
I am not a “fan”…. I am not a spectator…. I am a cyclist.
What this forum is is a We love Lance forum…. nothing more, nothing less….. how dare anyone say anything bad about the almighty Lance Armstrong ?? regardless of how true it is.
PLUS, I sign into this forum through Yahoo…. so I am really not even a member…. just happen to stumble upon it while catching up on the standings.
So Danny boy, you go on being “fan” of cycling….. and I will go on being an actual cyclist…. and when you get off your fat lazy, Doritos eating ass, and get on a bike please come see me.
BTW, welcome to this place we call the United States of Fucking America…. last I checked I still had a right to free speech…. moderators are wannabe Fascist Dictators with an inferiority complex.
by Tha Billdozer on Jul 11, 2009 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Guys, forgive me for chasing this troll down
You know, some would say that this is a We hate Lance forum. Maybe you and them ought to start a forum of your own where you can discuss such important matters. And when you’re done, let loose the white smoke and tell the rest of us.
I think that’s a win-win for everyone.
And by the way, only poor clueless sods like you believes that freedom of speech means that you can’t be moderated. Otherwise, I would love to see someone hang a picture of Lance in your home so you had to watch him everyday.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 11, 2009 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I am a fan of cycling...
… I do not ride because I both suck at it and I do not physically enjoy riding… I’m not particularly good at throwing footballs or enjoy getting tackled by linebackers either, doesn’t mean I can’t be a fan of football and speak respectfully to others about it. Other’s have made the same “shut the fuck up until you get a bike” argument before you, to me… I still fail to see what that has to do with anything.
Based on everything you’ve said so far, you’re vast experience on the bike has not given you any insight, apparently, into the act of racing, since you have yet to really say anything about racing… it only seems to have given you stunning loudmouthed opinions on Lance’s psychology.
If you had actually, actually, read anything I’ve written, I repeatedly state that I am far from deeply knowledgeable about the act of cycling, although I have a pretty good stance on the strategy and history.
You’re opinion of this place as being Lance Central is so stunningly misguided, due to your total lack of experience here, that it makes one clearly see the delineation you make between opinion and fact… ie: your opinions should be regarded as fact… when, in fact, they are not.
Also, make no judgement about me being fat, lazy and eating Doritos… I am neither of the three, as everyone here will attest. My choice of grueling physical activity and suffering simply doesn’t involve riding a bike, it does involve mountains… and it presently seems to include reading the unadulterated balderdash commentary masquerading as tirade from people that have recently posted to this board. Besides, even if I were what you purport me to be, I have no idea what that has to do with anything. Everyone here knows I only eat Fritos.
By the way, it’s “United States of America”… the word “Fucking” doesn’t appear in there anywhere.
I would, however, actively encourage you to act on your right to free speech, I want you to do this exercise… print out your comments from this thread, print up a BIG sign with your full name on it so you don’t get to hide behind anonymity… go stand on a soapbox in front of the state capital in Austin… and scream your comments as printed, to everyone that will listen. See if they find it any more palatable than we do.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
by crashdan on Jul 11, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I tend to agree with at least 50% of what Bill Dozer said...
…out of the 20% of his posts that contained something other than attacks. Of course, he didn’t say anything that hasn’t been said here before (as he’d have learned, if he cared to do so).
But I still totally agree that he went way over the line as far as personal attacks.
There are plenty of people who don’t quite “get” the difference between having a strong opinion / making a strong argument and being an ad hominem douche bag. But most of them either learn to fake it, or learn to apologize when they’re tipped off that they’ve screwed up.
I can’t find any sign that Bill was on his way to that place where you take responsibility for consistently making people miserable. However, if I’d been around, I’d have tried to “gentle” him by re-writing his opinion in equally strong terms, without being personally offensive.
It’s a good writing exercise… and it does sometimes convince people that pretty much any opinion can be voiced, so long as it’s done with a modicum of respect.
I don’t mind losing his jerkishness, but hmmm…I do sort of wonder if he had… y’know… actual useful knowledge that he might have gotten around to passing along, once everyone had checked out who could make the highest claw marks on the tree, piss highest, and offload the biggest steaming piles.
The time to de-escalate effectively is “as early as possible,” and “go read the rules / we have rules here” is not as effective as showing how it is done.
That said? Great post, Dan!
LA: "The Team Will Not Be The Problem"
Lance may only have been disappointed to not be in yellow as a function of the break, but he wasn’t looking like someone who thinks today was Good™.
lucky for you
It sill be on another six times today.
+1
“Expanded coverage” = 2x the Lance, half the racing, and a whole lotta Bob and Craig.
The interview clip opened with Frankie Andreu saying that Lance had suggested that Contador may not have gone completely with the team plan. So while he and Contador may have chatted before the acceleration, I’m not sure it was as tactically civil as suggested.
All very interesting. Because if Contador did let him know he’d be accelerating, then he might have gone with him if he could have. In this same interview, Lance also didn’t say he had great legs. Playing the team card afterward may or may not have been sugar coating.
Playing for the podium makes sense, but I’m surprised Johann didn’t organize some time in yellow for Lance. You know, yours through the pyrenees sort of thing.
Lance Wanted Yellow
for at least a day. Now ‘tis not to be. JB held Bert back as much as he could to give LA one more taste, but now the window has closed. Bert from here to Paris, maybe LA and Levi take the other podium spots. But that’s asking a lot.
Really this is setting up to be a very boring TdF. Astana can control the bunch at will knowing any attacks will be nullified. Expect to see a bunch of defensive riding for the next couple of weeks with few surprises. Maybe that’s why the media has been trying to write the Astana soap opera… so people won’t tune out completely.
by elmundo_enfuego on Jul 10, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly with a TTT and the stacked team, I don’t think anyone expected a thrilling GC battle. At least the Green and White jerseys are making out to be interesting battles. It will also be interesting to see how some newer TdF riders go, like Tony Martin and Wiggo.
How many times do I have to say
listen to what they are doing on the road, not what comes out of their mouthes. Basing your understanding of their tactics on their interviews is as reliable as getting your news from Fox.
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Has anyone noticed
…that nearly all of the expanded coverage programs begin with the word “Lance”?
"Think globally, bike locally."
can't say.. since i never watch anything but the live.... and that's muted as i do the online streaming
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I think Astana are really trying to claim the entire podium.
The way they are working together. I think that is their number one goal. They don’t want to just win.
A little FU! for the exclusion last year which prevented a possible GT sweep.
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
Want to claim best ever?
They could get the podium and claim this is the best Tour team ever. Need to ride like they did today, strong and careful to do that.
they have an excellent chance
I disagree that this is/will be a boring tdf. The green jersey battle should be good. Polky dots/minnie mouse too. And the gc will be interesting to watch even if it appears contador will take and he does. There are still the other podium spots to fight for. And the breakaways have been good. Been good so far.
On the other hand, it would be nice to see the best rider on a little less dominant team. But we’ve always got next year for that.
Did anyone catch big bro Feillu celebrating as he came in with the Grupetto
Bad screen shot, but i nearly missed it.
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Ook can't go past this shot without saying..
What a nice chest little bro had..
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
He's emulating Andy Schleck with that chest
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
great catch
still his brother forgot to ZIP UP the shirt post victory
sometimes life is a false flat
Kern not Riblon, i like Kern but even i was like noooo you can't catch him!!
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Hey no problem, I just like Kern getting the credit he deserves for err..not winning...
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Now I wonder what
geological delights tomorrow will bring ;-). I am sure that there will be some surprises, LOL
It's called "Second live thread"
Full name “Second live thread: Granite vs. Limestone The 80 years War”
we can only hope....
"Race radios in Cat 4?"
by gravel road on Jul 10, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Who needs tactics
Does anyone seriously think Astana needs tactics at this stage ? They make CSC’s 3rd week blitz last year seems a kids party. They all just blast till nobody is left. To me this is a huge letdown as i enjoy competition for 1st place, not top 10. Bring back Chicken he is the only guy i’ve ever seen hang with Bert when he goes.
Chicken cheated, too bad for him, plus Bert is far better now than 07
and Astana had perfect tactics today.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Tactics schmatics
Bold faced power posing – on the front of the peleton 2 or 3 days running when you don’t even have the yellow. This is just an admission that they dont NEED to care about tactics, they know they are twice as good as anyone else and can use their guys up for the hell of it.
Like a Cat 2 riding with the 5s
When you’re that much better you just ride. Let the others worry about catching you. You know it ain’t gonna happen
by elmundo_enfuego on Jul 10, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Brice Feillu suits polka dots I reckon
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
LA going with Bert
Why wouldn’t JB give the green light for bert to go, it’s brutally obvious that nobody can even get close to going with him. Andy Schleck maybe, had a sniff and didn’t like this smell – maybe because it was obvious nobody else was peeling off to chase with any speed at all.
It's only a rest day because...........
Nobody big has balls enough to do anything early – GC cycling is about the mountain top finishes…thats it. Given the only attackers are nobodies why not make every mountain stage a mountain top finish instead of wasting them on mid race climbing rubbish
The stages are still single digits
He’s still in his shell. Give him time…
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Think how good Astana would be if ............
They didn’t have to include the Khazak :)
Horner would have been in LA's corner
not Bert’s. So he sits in Oregon tweeting. LMAO.
by elmundo_enfuego on Jul 10, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
theres no corners, this is just a way for you to create controversy…
And it would be Paulinho that should be gone, where was he today?
Paulinho was on the front for awhile
Just like every Astana domestique.
Basically Astana has a couple of teams worth of Grand Tour riders and top domestiques.
did you seriously miss Paulinho tugging the whole peloton up the mountain for about 10 minutes?
by plinytheelder on Jul 10, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
JB should just open the reigns
We saw the Bert attack today. How about a LA attack next. Then a Levi att. Then a Klodi attack. They could just attack people into the ground and leave everyone behind.
well then just cycle through those three guys.
If noones responds then keep riding. IF they grab hold then send another guy.
I think he could...
Most of the time he was supposedly supporting Vinnie, he was actually the stronger rider
i thought so too
so i always hoped that he wouldnt attack vino
but the same could be said of ullrich
Levi can't attack
He’s a great climber – but like we saw with Cadel today – he doesn’t have the acceleration.
It’s actually quite sad to watch.
I agree.
Watching Cadel attack is like watching a kid try and shoot somebody with a cap gun
Except
at the end of the day Levi is a great position still to win this thing. Once again, he’s Bert’s biggest sort-of rival
Oh, I wasn't disputing that.
Just saying that they can’t attack on climbs without people following their wheels. Which is just disastrous. Cadel is very brave and he is trying – but he can’t ‘break the elastic’.
Especially when there’s a raging headwind like today.
That's a great point that the mass media is missing
Levi is a greater danger than Lance or any other GC contender to take a big bite out of AC in the stage 18 ITT. It is a course that suits LL much more than AC.
If a good day for Levi coincides with an off day for Alberto, Levi could pick up 2 or 3 minutes that day, and then all LL would have to do is find a way to hold a narrow margin on Mont Ventoux on stage 20.
It probably won’t happen that way, but wouldn’t that be fascinating? LL trying to hold the maillot jaune while fending off attacks by his teammate Contador? Maybe with the spectacle of LA trying to help LL hold on to his lead?
that would be interesting to watch
I think that’s probably unlikely, but I wouldn’t mind if it played out that way…
When I looked at the course months...
This was my thought as well… Three up hill finishes and only two before the ITT…
I think this is possible but not super likely. I am a huge LL fan and just needs to say inside on a minute I think to be really dangerous to Bert in the last week of race. We all know two things about Levi. He has a history of getter stronger as the race goes on and can kill the TT when motivated. He just need to avoid the one bad day.
I am finding this tour very interesting.
Why do armstrong TDF's have to be so boring.
We got an exciting first week which is unusual, but now we have to deal with a boring second two weeks. Mt. Ventoux will only be exciting for who will win the stage. Stage 20 used to look like a lot of fun, not anymore.
Well yet to be seen, it's his teams not him
too strong, way too strong for anyone else. At least this year there is Bert to liven things up and the Alps stages still give me hope for some good action.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Oh now we're going to make Berto into a god of cycling
and in a couple of years there will be a mass of cycling critics booing his accomplishments for making the sport boring and then we find out what a massive ego he has and yadda yadda yadda, and then we have our next villian.
Cool! I'm ahead of the curve.
Bah Contador
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Or suddenly his blood will turn up in a bag someplace in spain...
But hey..they have smart guys in charge of the team now.
Yeah cool, go ahead with that
but I’m not making predictions for 5 years. If you say Bert’s attack didn’t make the stage exciting it’s because you are upset he is now ahead of Lance in GC or have no idea wtf cycling is about. The stage still was dull but that and Evans try was the only thing that made your heart race today.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Weird perspective
because there’s a hell of a lot of work happening in the break—and it takes a lot of work to make sure that “nothing” happens.
19 sec behind, 2 sec in front makes no difference to me.
And yes I found the race exciting (and quite beautiful too), I was surprised that Andy couldn’t distance his rivals some, and that the rest of the GC could only pull LL and LA the rest of the way up. And if I didn’t find the race exciting you still can’t tell someone they don’t know wtf cycling is about. That could be turned around on you for your over enthusiasm with Contador.
No this has nothing to do with my enthusiasm for Conatdor
I still thought the stage was dull. I didn’t say “if they thought the race wasn’t exciting” I said specifically that “if they didn’t think the attack made it more exciting”. Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t find the stage exciting.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I hardly put words in your mouth.
And you skirted around the main point which was suggesting I don’t know wtf cycling is about if I didn’t find Berts attack exciting. Well, I actually didn’t find it all that fucking exciting. There was no way he was going to win the stage and he wasn’t going to put a tremendous amount of time into his rivals. He just looked pretty flying away from everbody with ease.
Ok wrong choice of words on my part, I'll admit to it
but I was merely trying to say his attack was about the only thing that could have been exciting if you found it so, while everyone else was content with following Astana to the top.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Alas, it's just as Chris predicted
LA returns to the Tour, and POOF, the friendly chatter on PdC gets scorched on the edges.
This whole thing is affecting me, too. I find that rather than being excited (or happy/disappointed) from stage to stage, I’m switching between anger and okay. Kinda of a bummer for an event I’ve come to really enjoy.
"Think globally, bike locally."
Ah don't let sminer get to you, you can actually have good intelligent convesations with him
just need to know he will get “name calling” with ya. I wonder how many people who have newly joined(and welcome so…for most) will stick around after the Tour and let everyone at PdC allow them to see how great cycling is outside of the Tour.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Like it or not..
The Tour is everyone’s ticket in..so you have to live with it………..and deep down even you know its THE race. Half the guys don’t turn up to GIRO or Vuelta, and while 75% turn up to the big classic’s and big 1 week stage races….they dont ALL turn up.
I'm not denying that, but it isn't the only race in cycling
and almost never the most exciting. Or unique.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
It's the most exciting to me
Because it’s the only race with the best VS the best.
That's not even close to true
GC vs GC yes, but all other monuments have the best vs. the best and in many years one other GT has best vs best and some of the best aren’t at the Tour either, such as Di Luca.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Di Luca's not here because he has no chance of ever winning the Tour
He’s a Giro rider, much like Chioccioli was in the 80’s and 90’s. Great rider but not one whose characteristics adapt well to the Tour.
Has it ever happended to you...
when you wanted to say Basso and Di Luca came out?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I think the whole Contador gaining time on LA will be blown out of proportion today
They are only 2 seconds apart now. Bert just gained those seconds he lost on the break in stage 3. It is the other GC guys who are behind the 8 ball now.
But it's the second time, after the TT, that AC got the better of Lance
Sure the time gap is only 2 secs, but psycholgically it’s a lot bigger.
And the opening TT?
How do you explain away the 22 sec gap there? Did it merely “suit” AC and not LA? Not that I ever saw Lance ride a TT that didn’t “suit him” in his prime. It’s significant that AC was able to gain such an advantage on an “easy” mountain stage (Vlad Karpets finishing in the same time as Lance? C’mon) Think about the carnage he will wreck on the Ventoux
I knew ít!
Lazy sod. All that photography didn’t make sense. I thought perhaps you did it just tu bug crashdan but this makes sense.
2003 TT didn't suit LA
IIRC, without looking it up, there was an ITT in the 2003 Tour in which Lance lost about 1:40 to Ullrich.
If you think about it Lance's 3rd is coming on the strength of the TTT
I wouldn’t even conclude that he’s stronger than LL or Cadel Evans based on what has transpired so far. CVV or Wiggins? You could argue that the latter has been stronger as well. Lance always enjoyed demoralizing the competition, and so far, in his only real opportunity in the TT, he came up short.
No argument there.
But I do think it was a mistake of going early in the order. Might not have made any difference but you never know. Two weeks more will tell.
I do think Astana really is targeting a podium sweep now. We know LL can pull it off, and as always we will have to wait and see with LA. But today, at least, showed that the other contenders cannot drop him yet.
Yeah but again
this year is different from last year in that riders like Menchov, Evans and Sastre have no chance unless they ride aggressively. Last year the time gaps were so small in the third week that everyone rode conservatively, except Sastre of course, each one hoping that the others would suffer the dreaded “bad day”.
This year the fireworks have to come sooner or later, and when they do we’ll be able to conclude whether or not “the other contenders cannot drop Lance”. I will say for now he’s off to a good start though.
I'm kinda hoping
that Evans, Sastre and Schleck start attacking like crazy. They may not succeed, but it is pretty much their only chance at this point.
I think Menchov’s best chance is to abandon and focus on the Vuelta. There was some thought about him possibly working for Gesink but now, well…
I think Evans has to go over a mountain...half way through a stage
And hope they think he’ll be easily caught on the 60 KM or so to the finish so they let him go. Then he just hangs on. To be honest it’s a pretty slim hope though
This is my first LA Tour, and every day I understand more of what you are all bitter about. The caution really kills something.
Yes, the team is strong
but it’s always been built around LA and the way the team is used to support him is boring.
by Spot of Bother on Jul 10, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So sorry you see it that way
This is my fifth tour watching Lance ride, (I followed 2002-2005) and to me he is exciting as ever. Different strokes, I guess.
Go Lance! (Don't tase me, Bro, don't tase me!)
Plus, it's not like the tactics employed are secret or anything
other teams could try to emulate, but most don’t.
Still, it’s a bit like watching the Yankees win a world series…
To me, the action at the Giro this year was more exciting.
I’d rather see the contenders battling it out instead of one strong team dictating the race.
by Spot of Bother on Jul 10, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
there wasn't a team at the Giro that could do this
Hence why it did not happen. Liquigas tried it in the Dolomites only to realize it wasn’t going to work.
Still goes back to the point
that the contenders attacking each other is more fun to watch than everyone staring at a strong team. I gained HUGE respect for DiLuca this year.
I understand what you are saying and the tactical differences but I’m focusing on what would be more exciting to watch.
by Spot of Bother on Jul 10, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
the killer
is right. one of the few names that make sense.
i kinda thought giro 07 was a fluke, but who cares
i dont know how many time i saw velonews go “di luca takes a dig, di luca attacks, di luca again.. di luca… again, di luca tries again ….”
and then being the sportsman and appreciates it when garzelli pipped him for bonus seconds. right there.. lifelong fan here
Caution IS GC cycling
It’s what makes it good..and bad – everyone afraid to let it all hang out unless it’s with 3 km’s to go on a hilltop finish
That's not how it used to be
I’m just saying, go look into the history of the sport and you’ll see that this cautious approach has not always prevailed.
Perhaps that is why some people struggle to put Armstrong on the same page as Bartali, Coppi, Anquetil and Merckx. They all demonstrated a far more aggressive approach to winning.
Who as the first to become so cautious? Was it Indurain? Maybe, but even he showed signs of out and out aggression. Want proof? Look up Bruynel’s palmares. That TDF stage win, look who he wheel sucked the entire way (commenting later that it was just like a motor pace session, i.e sitting behind a motor bike), and that was the day immediately prior to a decisive TT when Indurain still clobbered his opponents.
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
Reasons cycling was more aggressive back then:
1) Lack of team depth in the old days lended itself to more breakaways ( 1 or 2 stars and a bunch of guys who were probably obligated to race, or were probably there to search for a stage win)
2) Race radios didn’t exist then. Makes a huge difference now. The pack behind always has the advantage, they know just how fast and how long they have to ride to catch a breakaway.
3) Hate to say this but drugs. Not that riders still don’t use and get caught but it’s just that a certain segment of riders in the old days were ahead of the game so to speak, riders like Chiappucci and others who could venture on these day long breakaways in the mountains were doping pioneers.
4) Riders specialize now. The GC guys prepare year round for these big appointments like the Tour or Giro, while in the old days you would have some riders who would go to a race like the Giro specifically for training. Hence the few guys that took the race seriously could usually smash the competition.
Other possible reasons: service cars now as opposed to fixing a flat on your own??? That’s all i got, I’m sure their are many more though…
Merckxd died?
My God this has been a tough couple of months for the celebrities. :0
Maybe
there’s more money now, too, which makes riders more careful and/or complacent. They can race conservatively at the Tour, finish in the top ten every year, and get a nice fat contract as a “potential Tour winner”. Taking a big risk isn’t worth the payoff when a failure will land you 15th place and domestique’s contact.
Just for the sake of disagreeing...
1) Lack of team depth in the old days lended itself to more breakaways ( 1 or 2 stars and a bunch of guys who were probably obligated to race, or were probably there to search for a stage win)
Are you sure about this, and even if it is true how is this different to today?
I mean we do have Team Astana, stacked with a stronger line up than most consider reasonable, and if they wanted to stop a breakaway attempt, you’d have to think that they’d have a pretty good chance at doing so – but have they (will they) needed to? For that matter ask the same question of Discovery and USPS.
Or has their presence simply been enough to scare others out of attacking early?
2) Race radios didn’t exist then. Makes a huge difference now. The pack behind always has the advantage, they know just how fast and how long they have to ride to catch a breakaway
.
I think that this is where race radios have had their least impact. The old chalkboard with time differences is still in use today because it is effective. However, I do agree that greater knowledge of what the road is doing and what the prevailing conditions are does make a difference.
3) Hate to say this but drugs. Not that riders still don’t use and get caught but it’s just that a certain segment of riders in the old days were ahead of the game so to speak, riders like Chiappucci and others who could venture on these day long breakaways in the mountains were doping pioneers
.
It’s a pretty well documented fact that il Diablo was simply following well defined practices that existed well before he got into cycling. The details keep evolving, but the general idea has remained the same. Take something that makes you faster, better stronger. I am a huge fan of Coppi but I am also well aware that he doped (I don’t think that he ever denied it, FWIW). Oh and you are assuming that things are so different today (or in recent times)?
I think that you are onto something here though. In the post war era it was expected that even the highest rated GC contenders were going to have at least one bad day. In the modern era that bad day seems to have disappeared, for whatever reason…
4) Riders specialize now. The GC guys prepare year round for these big appointments like the Tour or Giro, while in the old days you would have some riders who would go to a race like the Giro specifically for training. Hence the few guys that took the race seriously could usually smash the competition.
Mmmm maybe we are talking different eras but I am referring to a set of riders who all managed multiple GT wins in the same season, and do so in an “aggressive mode”. Think Merckx, Coppi just to name two.
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
Question: how many Merckxs and Coppis are there?
it’s all well to admire the halcyon days of Eddie Merckx, but to bash on the current guys because they’re not riding like he did? It’d be a bit like dishing on current hockey players because they don’t score as much as Wayne Gretzky.
Very True, there will probably never be a Merckx again
especially now were riders are focused on one specific specialty, and can’t win all 5 monuments and GT’s. That’s why comparing EBH to him is absurd.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Not comparing directly to Eddy
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that there ever will be another Eddy.
But, I do wonder what has changed in GT racing to make it so passive?
When looking for a definition of what aggressive GT riding can be like it is natural to bring up eddy’s name – for obvious reasons. But he is not the only example of a successful, aggressive GT rider. It is easy to look back at the history of successful GT riders and see how many raced aggressively. From my (small but still growing) knowledge of cycling’s history, it almost seemed to be the norm, until sometime relatively recently. You look at the stage by stage results and there is usually at least one BIG day where the overall winner attacks and gains big time on his opponents, and it does not seem to happen in the last 3-5 km of a climb.
I guess my point/question is that these successful aggressive GT riders seem to have disappeared and I wonder why?
None of the reasons offered up yet really make sense to me.
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
You do ask a good question muk
And I don’t have an answer that I feel comfortable with.
I will say that the idea that riders like Merckx were somehow better doesn’t stand up for me since when I look at every other sport you see that over the decades all great players are matched by other great riders. That cycling would be different makes no sense.
Perhaps the quality difference isn't in the superstars...
but rather in the rest of the peloton. The knowledge and technology (bikes, training, radios, etc.) that today’s riders posses can quickly even a playing field. As in all sports, the more time that passes, the more the margin shrinks between the best and the worst.
Sastre won the Tour last year with aggression
Maybe that’s because Astana weren’t there.
But that is a counter-example. A rare one, admittedly.
It's a 3 week stage race, GC contenders cannot afford to throw caution to the wind
that’s what the stage hunters do. Was last year dramatically different for you tactically?
Yes there where constant changes in GC,
It seemed like most stages anyone could get away and win. I think the domination is awe inspiring, but it doesn’t make the most exciting three weeks.
how is the progress on the snark button coming?
Actually, each year becomes less exciting as I understand more of what is going on. Watching as a total idiot is a thrill—the first year I didn’t even understand how the teams worked. I came to the Tour completely by accident (very ill on a couch waiting a month for surgery, nothing else on at 6 a.m., got totally hooked).
mine was tdf 05
i love to see suffering people, then caught the end part of the prologue and everyone with their tongue out and dying. hooked
The only exciting year was...
The Oscar year – All the Lance years combined were not that fun.
His tours may "be boring"
Ok it took a while to get going but that attack from Contador and the way Feillu rode off into the distance? Certainly not boring!
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Don't you think Kreu has just been built up a little too much ?
He’s good, but he’s never shown he can be a powerplay of any note in a GC
Last year almost beat Andy for White
no I think he’s the real deal, just not winning this yea.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
He's somehwere between..
The almost have tha talents ala CVV, Kim Kirchen and the big guns ? He is not as exciting as somebody like umm…FUGLESANG – who i cannot wait to see get to TDF
Oh and I was laughed at for saying Cadel would finish ahead of Kreuz
Ursula’s prediction= MASSIVE FAIL!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
For Costa fans
i heard that he came with the groupetto, or something like that…
i’m really glad to see a young french winning a stage here!!
Rui was 116th today, coming in 23 minutes down with the "pre-Sprinters grupetto" gruppetto
In his group were guys like Duque, Geslin, Coyot, Clement, Beppu.
It seems he crashed yesterday though so i wouldn’t worry too much. He’ll be up there eventually :)
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Does anyone see Contador winning like Lance did?
Lance normally put huge time into his opponents. Like second place was 7 minutes down. I don’t see Contador ever doing that, he doesn’t seem to have the ability to really break away on the climb. Yes he can get good time on people like today, but he can’t take minutes out of his rivals on climbs like LA did.
Maybe, i'm looking for a weakness but..
I have this lingering fear he just switched off (or was told to switch off) once he got to about 30 secs up.
Like LA did, is the line here...
Let’s wait and see if LA can do it this time…… and “he doesn’t seem to have the ability to really break away on the climb”.. Yah think!!
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
yes he can break away, but has he ever done it for a long period where he gains massive
amount of time on his rival like minutes and not 20 or 30 seconds.
Angirlu last year
this climb, too easy to gain minutes. He may not win by 7 minutes but the competition is also better now, and this year’s route does not set up a big victory.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Looked at the results again, still don't see "massive" gains.
58 secs on J-Rod, just 1.05 on Levi, who spent a lot of energy pacing Bert earlier and then marking Sastre after Bert took off. 1.32 on Sastre.
The time gains obviously contributed to his win and the fact that he got away at all highlights the fact that he does go up steep climbs very fast—but I agree with the others who say this isn’t always going to win him races against the diesel guys. So far, at least, it hasn’t resulted in huge gains.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Ah fine...natch....whatever...pfft, the Angirlu isn't tough anyway....
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Bert is one of the best jumpers ever… his immediate acceleration during climbs is god-like. It is a reflection of a superior strength/weight ratio.
Where Bert CAN be beaten is on steep diesel climbs. In his prime, Lance could jump AND diesel.
So the biggest threat to Bert right now will be early and often attacks by GC diesel guys in the mountains.
This won't work because....
He has too many team mates to bring him back if that happens – Diesel only works if you have the strongest team
good point
very remote chance for sure… I am just trying to find ANY chink in Bert’s armor… that is a tough task.
Not that I’m rooting against him… quite the contrary… I’m rooting for him, as he is the strongest.
Popo and Zubeldia were both useless last year
Put an Astana jersey on them and they become different riders, especially Popo.
Cadel's wife twitted
that Popo seems to have found his form again this year. How quietly snarky of her.
Just like 2007 at Tignes
Popo did the work of two men that day. So maybe it’s not LA at all. Bruyneel?
if popo had a team
like a half decent team like cervelo, he do top 10 easy, top 5 probably, podium maybe
I don't think so
He’s not cut out to be a leader, last year was his big chance and he blew it. He’s content to be a career battering ram at the front of these mountain stages.
last year?
when he was domestique again for someone else?
better argument is giro 07
Other than his first 2 years
he’s been a domestique all along. In 2005 he worked for Lance at the Tour, 2006 he bombed at the Tour (along with the rest of Discovery) 2007 he failed as the leader in the Giro and then refound his form for the Tour. 2008 he was miserable at the Tour in his “attempts” to help Evans, and this year at the Giro he rode for LL. Other than his first two year riding for a small Italian team he’s only had one chance (2007 Giro) to lead a team in a grand tour.
to be fair
tdf 06 he dragged GH’s fat ass up one early mountain day, then won one stage that year too. then Giro 07, he crashed twice before he abandoned.
so maybe he would have done better had he been supported in tdf 06, and had he not crashed on giro 07.
proof?
because he got 8th (!) after putting AC and LL on the podium in tdf 07
The reason he was asked to help Hincapie in 2006
was because he failed miserably in the first TT. Before the race started Bruyneel told Hincapie, Popo and Acevedo that all 3 were protected riders and that a leader would be selected after the first individual TT. Popo finished waaay back that day, and in the process forefeited any chance of being considered the sole leader.
Started his career with them...
podiumed the ’02 Giro
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
It was a Belgian team, I always associate the young Popo with Italy because it’s where he first rose to fame.
He went into the Tour last year as a protected rider
Something that was never the case on Discovery/Astana. It was the first time he wasn’t asked to fill the role of pace setter in the mountains, since Lotto was uncapable of riding in that capacity, and instead was asked to stay with Cadel for as long as possible. I seem to remember he wasn’t even capable of riding half way up the Tourmalet on Evans’ wheel.
and where the fuck was gregory rast eh?
horner would’ve been up there with a smile
Did his bit when Levi went floppy-poo-poo just before the climb
+ pounded on the front for a goos part of the day
led the peloton for a long long time today...
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Maybe he doesn't have a good head
His performance at the Olympics was decidely ODD – Didn’t really mean anything but was just strange
Me, too. LA has always inspired his domestiques.
I’m very glad to see he’s doing so well at this Tour.
Which is why Astana does not want ...
… the yellow yet. If they want to sweep the podium, its better if its uncertain that they are likely to … otherwise the potential podium finishes on the line adds to the incentive to form working alliances to attack Astana. The more room for speculating about infighting in Team Astana, the better their chances are.
The race is young
And this course doesn’t really lend itself to huge time gaps, at least not in the Pyrenees. Compare this to 2001 or 2000 when the first big mountain top finishes were Hautacam and Alpe D’Huez, much harder climbs than what we saw today.
More likely to be minutes between the third Astana ...
… rider and the rest of the field than between Contador and number two.
Behind the daily fight for stage wins, Astana will be finding a way to put time between themselves and each of the other GC contenders.
all I want to know...
is what is up with these hideous new giro helmets that all the teams were wearing today.
They were ugly
They look like a much cheaper model.
by australopithecine on Jul 10, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The new super light helmet perhaps
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 10, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Still, if Contador is as good as David Millar says he is...
…we might as well settle down for the “Conti Years” in the TdF, cos no-one will have a look in till he decides to step down.
[Fingers crossed it doesn’t happen like that]
Depends on the team
He is so awesome now because he has the power team. If he was isolated a lot … well that would actually be exciting.
So frustrating that the team didn’t split. It would have been much more exciting to see Contador with Caisse d’Espargne fighting Kloeden/Levi/LA in these stages.
Contador with Garmin actually.....oh that would have kicked ass
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
oh, please. let that never happen
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I can't believe it ever will.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Or that someone comes along who can match him
Although I didn’t follow cycling at the time, I understand that, when Ullrich won the 97 Tour, people thought he was unbeatable and would win a bunch of Tours in subsequent years. And he likely would have, had not someone else shown up…
it's "conta", not "conti"
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
bruyneel's comments
So he hadn’t talked to the riders yet at time of the interview. Said the goal today was get someone in an escape. That didn’t work out. Said there was no plan to attack towards the end. Said he told the guys to talk amoungst themselves, see how they felt and decide on the run. When they told him Contador was only 6 seconds behind the maillot jaune, he didn’t look too happy and said he’d have preferred a bigger gap. Certain responsibility that goes with the yellow jersey and that he hopes Ag2r takes this responsibility (and obviously he hopes they keep the jersey for awhile).
So definitely possible that lance and contador talked it over before he took off. Or maybe not.
So did he tell Bert to slow down then?
Would seem to make sense.
Maybe...
He WOULD say that to improve even further the perceived strength of his team. The other is that maybe Bert can only jump and not follow through..much
Maybe he is worried about another Paris/Nice.
That would make sense. It seems JB is really afraid of Contador’s ability to hold onto the jersey for to long. Maybe people should be talking to Nocentini to fall on his sword tomorrow and give Conta the jersey to put pressure on him.
No team wants to defend for so many stages, not just Astana
my guess is they let a break fly and gain huge time tomorrow. Guaranteeing they won’t have yellow until the Alps.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
As if he needs more people on his team
Pfffffffffffffffffft
I agree
Probably expect to see a french team want the jersey tomorrow.
he didn't say so, if he did.
My general impression is that he wasn’t too happy with contador’s attack – he never said anything directly, but there were a few comments that hinted that way. And he just seemed not thrilled.
Makes me think of Neil Young
Old man take a look at my life
I’m a lot like you
I need someone to love me
the whole day through
Ah, one look in my eyes
and you can tell that’s true.
Does anyone really think that
Nocentini will be able to hold on through tomorrows mountains?
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Doubtful but slightly possible.
It depends on how slow the peloton goes with none of the GC guys attacking.
Nice interview
With Brice Feillu and his brother Romain. Brother was crying with joy. A pretty sight. Brice’s first year as a pro. Gonna try to keep the polka dots. Great shot of Romain while stiill riding when Brice won it.
They are only 15 months apart
That is pretty fast after each other
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
What needs to happen to make le tour le fun again is...........
Keep some young kid under wraps for a while, playing fox for like a year – put him in your team, make sure he’s a gun climber and let him sneak early in a big mountain stage – put 10 minutes into them before they realize what is happening then have him hold it…heh that would be so cool
Geez, are we gonna need a 2nd post-race thread here?
At any rate, my brain is no longer properly processing the collective wisdom of the Cafe… so I shall bid you all good night.
Oh, and my Mum tells me it’s 463-4 ;-)
I do find it hard to accept, as a fan of many many sports that...
To win a stage in the tour you either have to be A) a sprinter B) Not any good so the guys who are actually good will let you go. It just makes cycling WEIRD
Dude rode a LOT of tours - when you win 7 tours
I expect he should have had more – then take off the ITT AND TTT wins and its a LOT less
It's about half
10 non-TT stage wins. But some were pretty memorable (Sestriere 99, Alpe D’Huez 01, and Le Grand-Bornand 04 come to mind).
oops, make that 11
I forgot about LA’s 1993 stage victory.
By way of contrast, did Indurain have any non-TT stage wins?
2
Luz-Ardiden 1990 and Cauterets 1991.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 10, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
mercks had a gazillion
well, i’d have to check if it’s exactly a gazillion, but he won a lot. Old days i guess.
you just have to be the first guy across the line. :)
Look at Voeckler!
Not true at all, Sastre at the Tour last year, every Giro mountain finish this year
and a ton more. Also hate the notion that guys who aren’t GC contenders aren’t any good, it’s just not their specialty. You have to DAMN GOOD to win a stage at the Tour, no matter how.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
There is good and there is GOOD
I know im eating into the heart of the hard core cycling fans here but… The classics guys would become GC guys IF THEY COULD – they just aren’t as good. And if they trained right, the GC guys would clean up at the classics, they just can’t because they are training for GC
No they just aren't good enough climbers or TT specialists
why give up potential wins at classics for GT 5th place finishes? The classics are an integral part of cycling and are extremely important to true cyclists.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I don't agree
I think its stupid sprinters have to HANG ON for 200 KM just so they can sprint for 500 M. It’s beyond stupid..its retarded
It's a lot more than hanging on
the final few 5km is all about positioning, those guys battle real hard to get on the right wheel and in the right place, it’s incredibly difficult and takes amazing attention. Do you know how to ride at 50km/hr while being pushed around and riding through tiny gaps to get in place?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Meh
Hard or not they still largely hang on….so what if it’s 5 km instead of 500 M, its still 95% hanging on
Sprinters are almost always on the front on flat stages
they know how to ride flat stages better than anyone.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
a sprinter would say
well . . . yeah, but that means it’s the other teams’ job to drop me.
Armstrong/Bruyneel’s tactics have basically adapted the sprint train strategy to climbing stages. It’s just that the sprint lead out is a little longer . . .
I don't know that I agree
yes, it’s true that someone like Cance or Boonen will likely never win the Tour de France. It’s also quite likely that Contador will never win Paris-Roubaix, which both Cance and Boonen have won. Does that mean that Cance and Boonen are “not as good” as Contador? Or vice versa? I don’t think so. The classics riders are better at certain cycling disciplines while the GT riders are better at others. Part of it is determined by body type, so saying that Cance is not as good as Contador because he can’t win the Tour de France is not much different, in my mind, as saying that Contador is not as good as Cance because he can’t win P-R…
+1
the reason the GC guys get more attention is because the GT’s and other stage races are hyped up more than the wonderful classics. Yes they may have better endurance having to be on top from for 3 weeks but they can’t turn it on in one day like the classics guy’s.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
if 'mericans had a better than hincapie shot at PR
then we’d prolly be seeing more countdowns to PR
once again
not a fan of lance, but i have the feeling he is someone who could have maybe done well at the classics and gt’s, and a shame he didn’t give it more of a go.
Yah i wonder why he didn't
Oh that’s right..he wanted to become the most famous cyclist ever :) and you don’t do that winning classics
You only become the most famous guy to win the Tour de France
Again this is a topic that has been addressed on countless occasions, but you assume he is best because he won the Tour 7 times. That just makes him the best at the Tour.
Yah i haven't been here long so
I’m sure it’s been discussed to bits. I don’t agree but i’ll leave it.
Have to give VS credit for the other races they have shown
Even if they were not live they at least made an effort to show highlights from the classics. And this does not need to turn into a discussion about how good those highlights shows were or weren’t.
actually I agree
and I don’t even really mind the commercials because I’m glad they’ve got adverstisers and I want the broadcast to be profitable for VS.
Speaking of commercials, in the midst of the snuggie commercials and commercials for various questionable products, I love the Travelers commercial with the dog trying to protect his bone. Here is the full version, . His little worried expression is adorable. I actually stop fast forwarding on my tivo to watch.
yep... it's priceless
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Bonus seconds can have different effects.
They reward GC contenders for winning stages but not having them in this Tour will keep deprive Contador of time and keep the GC race more interesting.
+1, I personally hate time bonuses, the racing seems more pure wothout them IMO
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
+ some more
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
have you not seen giro 09?
adds another dimension of tactics
But think about how much closer the Giro might have been without the seconds?
If you beat a guy by two inches you should not get 5 seconds on him.
it wouldve been more spread out
since di luca won more bonus seconds than menchov
and there is no point attacking at the very end of the stage.
you totally should get bonuses for sprinting at the line
Had Di Luca won or even had the pink heading to Rome it wouldn't have been fair
it awards guys for being able to sprint, and gives guys who can’t but can maybe climb and TT better a disadvantage. You shouldn’t lose 20 seconds, or 8 when you lose 0 on the road.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
id rather root for an attacker than a time trialer anyday
go vino! (hehe i might get my wish here in a few weeks)
Not attacker, a sprinter
all for Di Luca gaining time because he attacked and gets away(unfortunately for him he couldn’t), not for him being able to sprint better the last 200 meters.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
the sprint at the end
is an attack if it gets you bonus seconds, rather than just bragging rights.
else no one would bother going for third
Basically hate time bonuses...
But if they have to give em, I’d rather see it done as a ratio than a flat amount, e.g., first finisher gets a bonus equal to the number of seconds he is ahead of the second guy, second guy gets half of his gap to the third guy, third guy gets a quarter of his gap to the fourth guy. Or something like that.
I really like time bonuses,
not really sure how meny seconds they should be, but I think it’s important to reward people who try to win/attack and not just wheelsuck.
Umm i disagree - i love bonus seconds
Because i liek to see guys squeezing out every little bit…and its harder to be at the front than at the back….no matter what the finish
On a lighter note
It’s good to see the Mullet finishing with group evans. I have high hopes for the mullet this year, and also have money on him beating home Astraloza – so far so good…i’ma win me some mullet money
So I feel there have been 3 sprint stages more exciting than today so far....weird Tour
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Today is as exciting as it might get
How much by the time we get to Ventoux, somebody already has an insurmountable lead
Probably not because the parcours don't set up a chance for big time gaps
which they probably did to make it close heading up Ventoux. Only one more mountain finish which is a similar climb as today, although stage 17 is brutal.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
An on the Aussie SBS coverage
Seeming surpised seeing Jurgen VDB attacking and right there at the end – PFFFFT -VDB is better than either Popo or Horner were as support for Cadel and great to see him finally in the big race – too bad he can’t follow wheels in the TTT though
Is this depressing or gratifying?
Bradley Wiggins launched one more attack than Carlos, Denis and Andy Schleck.
both
carlos and schleckett know they got bigger fish to fry later in the tour, and denis is probably happy to hang on right now
Bigger fish than Bert ?
I don’t think so, they should have stayed with him if they could. Sastre maybe has a chance if within time at Ventoux as he is proven he can put minutes in people, but not Schleck..he should have had Berts wheel if at all he could
yeah, kinda expected schleckett
to hang right with AC, but he did grew stronger as tdf 08 went in to the 3rd week, and AC went downhill as tdf 07 went. but that was before, keeping my eyes open for them young’uns
sastre wont go until next week. he always keeps on the DL early
I wouldn't say AC went downhill in 07 tour.
Go back and watch the stage where he and the Chicken battled it out. I wouldn’t call that downhill.
In 07
1 stage AC beats Chicken
day off
next stage Chicken beats AC
A couple days later, AC pulls out his best TT ever up to that point.
Losing to Chicken on one stage in the Pyrenees, while otherwise doing your best ever on the other two final decisive stages is not “fading”
absolutely
The second disc from 07 is one of my favorite Tour videos to watch because of how fantastic the climbing and attacking was.
There is a youtube video I saw which bound together the attacks from those two
amazing fun!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Umm...he pulled a great TT because suddenly.
He had a chance of winning. If he stayed in, the chicken had him beat. I loved that climbing best too, because the chicken stayed with him so effortlessly
i think he did
he couldnt put the gap as quick as did in the earlier stages to rasmu
Wiggins was the biggest surprise of the day
The question is whether he can ride like that 3 days in a row, or start to cave in ala CVV or KK. Losta guys can climb good 1 day, but not so much repeatedly
CVV cave like?
He sure was frisky at the end on the Alpe last year. That was at the end.
That wasn't frisk..he was dead..it was all guts, something he has plenty off
He is not a naturally gifted climber..he’s a gutser
Not how I saw it.
He was fine on the Alpe, it was the previous day, the Col de la Bonette that did for him.
I don't see him as a real climber
When was the last time he did anything but hold wheels in the mountains. He makes Cadel look like an attack freak
you must watch selectively
VdV’s problem last year was that he didn’t know what he really had in the tank.
And you must love CVV
Because the guy isnt really GOOD at anything. He is Vlad Karpets minus the Mullet
I think CVV attack on Super Besse.
And I would believe he was the one that drug the evans and menchov to the line on Alpe de’ heuz
Evans beat him on Super Besse
Which to be fair isn’t really a mountain at all. And Evans dragged everyone else to the line on Heuz minus Sammy Sanchez and Bert. I don’t watch them all, but i watch a lot and i have never seen him attack on any Mountain stage in any race.
we only have one Tour to go off of.
So hard to say he does not attack at all.
heh...1 tour or 20...none is none
Cmon here..he doesn’t SEEM like a climber. Am i the only one who thinks this ? He just doesn’t.
He's an OK TT'er who can climb
UGH what is this love affair with CVV. Cadel is a TT’er who can climb. In the 14 km ITT he finishes 3 seconds ahead of Andy Schleck and Behind Chavenel the greater. This isn’t great.
He just freaking broke a shit load of bones 2 months ago
he isn’t on his best form yet, maybe getting there slowly. I don’t “love” him like many here do but you have to give him credit were credit is due.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Why the ripping of CVV
He finished fourth in a TdF. He is obviously half way decent at some thing.
Well when you have so much experience at riding
at the highest level, which Eucboy surely has, it’s easy to say some aren’t good.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Oh yes, and Eucboy seems to be more "fun" about it too
I’m having a royally great time arguing with him.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Eucboy...
I am not sorry I missed this thread as this is a sad thread right here but I wish I had the chance to counter you on Christian. And I’ll use his name versus C as you don’t know me at all but…
C can climb. For anyone who doesn’t think so or see that in him, please go and watch him in the Vuelta’s he’s been in. The man was a huge help to CSC in the mountains and he and I believe it was Chris Anker that kicked serious ass for Sastre in 2007. The man climbs and climbs well. At CSC he was usually in the last group pulling for the leaders giving it hell.
Doubt anyone is going to see this added to this thread as it is already past implosion but I needed to say it just the same. He inspired the crap out of me in the 2007 Vuelta for many reasons. The Tour last year, he was only off that podium because of a lost of thought which resulted in a spill coming OFF a climb, not up one.
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
you stay with the heads of state
throughout the course of the Tour, one climb excepted, and you’re a pretty good climber, even if you’re not AC or Pantani
Granted...
I just say he does it on Guts and when you do it on Guts there is always 1 you bonk on. you can’t afford to bonk on any. I bet you $10 he bonks on one this year too
cvv didn't bonk last year...
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Thank you.
He over cooked a haripin coming down the mountain and lost his momentum. He did not bonk at all last year.
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
Astana Lead
I think Lance is just riding for his team. Contador was lead going in and LA was not expected to be vying. He pulled AC up the first hill just like any good team member should. If AC falls off on time you’d expect AC to do the same for LA if he were better positioned…
I think they were zeppelin-piloting goggles
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
i agree i think that lance was riding for the team
on the other hand i don’t agree that lance dragged him up anything. Looked like astana dragged him up, but was usually popo in front, lance in about 4th (astana-wise) and conta behind that. I don’t call that “lance dragging him up”
Columbia better not make T-Mart drive on the flats anymore
unless they want to ruin a chance to pick up a white jersey!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Who was the biggest dissapointment today ?
Can’t say Canc as nobody seriously expected him to climb. For me it’s Duran, was great in the GIRO and finishes 10 mintues down today – Sad to see CAISSE D’EPARGNE with absolutely no hope of anything
Fat brother?
bahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
I would say Schleck too
Andy that is. I really thought before the race he could match AC on the climbs, and it’s still early of course, but today wasn’t a great start. I would have expected him to be glued to Contador’s wheel in those last few k’s.
Andy is only 1:49 down right now
Cadel is 3:50. Sastre 2:50. Andy doesn’t need to burn all his matches yet. The others do.
I agree..i think Andy can go with him
Even kinda looked it today…but he just switched it off again for some reason. I wouldnt write him off yet
Keep thinking it's his so called "fat brother" with the Lux champ jersey...
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
He does have a big arse
Not that i’ve been looking at it…but the rest of Saxo were in the TTT :)
What?
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
See, now that's the difference between callipygian
and, er, portly.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
And in the cycling world Jani Brajkovic
is considered the picture of health
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I will save everyone from the wrath of "the picture"
but I guess the chicken was also the bill of health too if Frank is fat.
Whichever brother weights less...wins more
Frank still has some big stages…Andy has nothing yet but potential and the “look” of an effortless climber
What about that Liege where he beat your friend Gerrans and Gesink
But maybe monuments are crap. Oh and that 2nd at the Giro.
Pfffffft
Leige Baston Leige is 1 day that’s a bit climbey…. Franky won on The Alp..to me that is a huge difference
You would think you like track riding
Because you are just going in circles all day with these statements
A bit climby? Oh man that's something
up and down all day, to me it’s a huge difference as well…winning L-B-L is far greater and harder of an achievement than winning a stage up the Alpe. It’s one day for glory, with only one battle, for victory. A Tour stage is not contested by everyone and isn’t even the main battle at time’s.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I can see your point
But the Alp is the most famous stage in the most famous race…not everyone is trying to win because well….99.9% of them never could win it.
Trust me, ask Frank what he rather have, a Tour win or L-B-L
and I guarantee he says L-b-L. You have to realize the difference from winning a stage(even one of the greatest and winning the main prize, which winning a classic is, L-B-L is probably the 2nd biggest goal for these guys. More people can win a stage up to the Alpe than L-B-L.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Liège or a TOUR WIN?!
C’mon, I’m as big a classics fan as the next guy, and that next guy could be Chris, but if it’s one or the other, a Tour win beats anything and everything.
Hmm. Hincapie is damned proud of his Tour win.
Ask him if he’d like to trade it for Roubaix.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
And do you think Tom Boonen would trade his P-R titles or Ronde titles
for three more tour wins? Highly doubtful
And let's ask Cav about MSR.
Just for fun.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Oh la la
But sprint wins aren’t the same…all sprint wins in a bunch sprint should be half credit :P
then what about breakaways?
Since you are only really beating a couple guys?
Break aways are ok
Since you already had to “break away” and stay away..so it’s 2 efforts
do you own a bike?
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
Hmm am i right or wrong
Gerrans 1 tour win, CVV and KK Zero wins combined ?
Depends on whether you count Schumacher's "win" over KK as legit.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Again flawed reasoning
Stage hunter vs. GC. BIG difference
GC ?
You only say he’s GC..i say he’s a pretender to GC lol
Weak Field
That’s how Gerrans got his Win lol
Right! I did not get that. I meant a complete 3-week Tour win, not 1 stage.
I thought “a Tour win” would be the whole thing, obviously(?). As opposed to “a stage win.”
Yeah probably right there
1. Tour
2. Maybe Giro
3. LBL
4. Flanders
5. P-R
6. etc.
Worlds above all classics, maybe even Giro
And some whippersnappers think the Olympics are all that, nowadays.
Well..
When you have guys like Cancellara pointing to and riding in the Olympics only to skip the Worlds, that sends a pretty loud message as to which is the big race that year.
yeah,
I have a tough time seeing the worlds rated above the classics, myself…
i consider worlds a better win than a classic
only when i feel like it. ballan’s was crap, unlike both of bettini’s
Olympics are only every 4 years
That adds into it too. So when you have a chance I think you skip worlds that year.
And essentially,
Olympics are open to pros nowadays (shock!). They didn’t have quite the same pull when they were for amateurs only.
Flanders ahead of P-R?
not sure about that one, I think P-R should probably be number 1 classic. Hey, Chris should make a poll about this, ranking importance of races and stages compared to races.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Yeah you could probably pick any order for the classics
I don’t know where I would put worlds on there though.
Oh yeah forgot to mention stage, my bad
but you agree L-B-L is worth more than a Tour STAGE right?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Eucboy was arguing stage win bigger than Monument
I heartly disagreed.
Yes me too, if a stage is more improtant than a monument
then why are watching anything else? If the Tour is at that high of a pedestal. I would not be comfortable with it myself, too much history in the others to knock them down that much.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Certainly. However,
/financially/ it might be different … A Tour stage win does generate a whole shitload of world-wide publicity. The exposure of the classics is often very localised.
Meant importance to the rides wise
financially the Tour is at a whole other level.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I wasn't talking about
“to the riders” specifically……. i was talking about a combination and prestige both in and out of cycling circles
That just isn't true
Since the majority of sports fan’s have no idea what the classics are outside of Europe…and to some extent inside aswell.
Those aren't true fans
so i don’t care how they feel about them, they don’t decide how much importance and prestige they carry.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
best point in this subthread
Why on earth should it matter what I, as a Tour-fan heathen, think of the other races?
I am mad for the TdF—signed up for cable this month and will cancel when it ends, moved my work schedule around, had it on the calendar from Jan. 1st—but I don’t watch a single other cycling event the rest of the year (Sui Juris’s best efforts at convincing me to give some of them a shot notwithstanding).
Amen
It’s like trying to tell a “real fan” of punk music they greenday are good.
It doesn't
But it is the argument that a Tour stage win is better than winning a classic. And if you only care about one event, then you are probably not in a position to say one is more important than the other.
Well than your a Tour fan
not a cycling fan as a whole(and that’s fine). That’s just how it is, if you don’t watch anything else than you also shouldn’t be deciding on how important anything else is.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
By choosing..
I have already decided…by my ignorance of the classics i am VOTE 1 for they aren’t important
Well you just admitted your ignorance towards them
so why should I take your vote as serious?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Well yes but in my defence
There is really no way i COULD watch them even if i wanted to…which again speaks volumes of the sporting world writ large
Look, I understand if you can't but would like to
it is a bitch to catch the races because they aren’t taken seriously outside Europe, which isn’t right. But before you judge how important L-B-L is you should watch it first. Next year you should try, check cyclingfans.com for a free streaming link and you’ll see what we mean.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Well i lie
I haved watched some races on Steephill free links. They were fun but i never get excited unless everybody who is good is at the same race..which they almost never are.
But you must know who's good for those type of races
guys like Contador wouldn’t add anything to L-B-L, he isn’t a classics guy. L-B-L, everybody who is a good hilly classics guys is there. Read along here and you’ll know who is the best in what category.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I guess
Contador is good on the flat..and good in high mountains…to me that should mean..if he trained for it he’d be good at it. I guess cycling is just weird in that it’s so multidisiplined with so many events on per year..often at the same time
It can't be compared to any other sport
which I find great. Every rider can win something big, every rider can have their races and every rider has a place and role in the sport. To me, that’s beautiful.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
there is a difference
between being able to ride in the peleton on the flat (which everone can do) and being good on the flat. If Contador was good on the flat he could win P-R. That is absolutely a ludicrous statement.
Not sure if I would say those cobbles
can be compared to the flat.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
conta good on a flat? well... that's news
he lives for the steeps… okay, he’s greatly improved his time trialing, but give that boy and incline and he’s happy
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
what, you can't watch cycling on your computer? only on the tv?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
absolutely agree, Phil
Don’t know why Eucboy would privilege my primitive and fickle preferences (even if I represent a larger number of people) over those of people who actually follow the sport.
Thank you, and again
I didn’t mean to insult you or anything. I have nothing against people who only watch the Tour, I just don’t like when they then try to rate how important other races are that they know nothing about.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
no problem, Phil
I would even be fine with the insults. As a fan of other things, I realize how ridiculous my criteria for favorites are and how uninformed my opinions are.
I just try to recognize how much more knowledgeable and involved you all are and am grateful for the option to wheel-suck off your brains during the Tour.
And we appreciate your love for the Tour
because you love all aspects of the Tour!
+1 and trust us. we will try very hard
to get you and Eucboy as enthusiastic of all of cycling as we know you can be.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
your original argument
Is still based on a stage win up the Alpe. This might be a different argument if you were saying winning the entire tour vs. a classic, but not a stage win vs. a classic.
Dude, you seem to think...
…what Americans think about cycling is the fundamental truth of cycling. And that, well, is just silly.
I'm australian
That is like American “light” heh
You don't want me to to there...
…anyway this week I’m focusing on how much I love Typhus!
Difference between Europ and everywhere else
In Europe, the classics win. Everywhere else, outside of cycling circles they have no idea about anything but the Tour and they could still give a crap about stage winners. They only care if you win the whole thing.
Yah i'll give you that
And then only if the winner ISNT European lol
I care about the stage winners!
And the jerseys. Whether this is a sign that I’m slowly getting sucked into the realms of True Fandom or not is up for debate.
The three newbies I’ve pulled into the Tour this year also seem interested in the Green Jersey race, and to a lesser extent so far, the KOM race (dubbed “The Krispy Kreme shirt” race by one).
And that is what is great about the Tour
It draws people into cycling. Last year all I knew of was the Tour, the Giro and P-R. Now I really appreciate all the events because I know each one is different in its own right.
I think KOM is dumb
Half the time it’s not won by the best climber..that just seems dumb
you are a ray of motherfucking sunshine, Eucboy.
by bruyere on Jul 10, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So green jersey is dumb then too
Because it may not be won by the best sprinter. For that matter the yellow jersey is dumb too because who is to say that is won by the best rider? Just preposterous!
Well kinda..i don't mind green
Because it rewards sprinting, sneakiness and agressiveness…and Smarts….where as KOM sometimes just rewards people who are “sometimes” just in the right place at the right time on the right day – GC switched off
You don't win KOM
by just being in the right place at the right time. That means Tom Boonen could win KOM if he was in the right place at the right time. Ummmm NO
Tell me honestly
Do you really beleive the best Climber wins KOM even 50% of the time ?
The best natural climber does often win it
guys like Soler and Chicken(minus2007) are great climbers. They don’t do the GC well but they know just how to win the KOM. It’s a very important prize.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Finally..some sense :P
Who won LBL 5 years ago…without looking it up ? Hmmm :P
Rebellin...he won all the Ardennes that year
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Pffft...trust me to ask
A cycling nut question to a bunch of cycling nuts :P
Just wont get far ripping the Classics
Thats all
by that logic
who won stage 14 of the Tour de France 5 years ago?
And who won stage 5 of this years Tour?
yeah how soon we forget
I knew you would know
I was just making a point :) And I am glad it was Tommy V since he got me 80 points!!!
I don't feel bad about playing fantasy NBA
Now i know you geeks play Fantasy cylcing..heh
Because it draws you in
You pay more attention that way. And you learn a hell of a lot more too.
flawed reasoning.
Not everyone rides to win because not everyone is supposed to win. There are a select few that ride to win, even in stages. Andy wasn’t riding to win when he rode the Alpe last year. So we don’t know how he would have done.
Yeah a little different there...
Frank was part of a little side battle that day with Cunego…not racing away to a 2 minute advantage over the best classics men
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Officially, the Schlecks weigh the same (67 kg) and are the same height (186 cm)
I agree that Andy is looking particularly gaunt these days, but that just makes Frank ridiculously underweight, not fat.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Yeah those official weights are bogus for the Tour...
they are easily a few kilos under
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, come to that
has Andy ever demonstrated any particular climbing prowess in the Pyrenees? He lost something like 8’ on Hautacam last year, and I don’t recall him burning it up any of the other climbs. He looked great in the Alps, but I wonder if the differences in the types of mountains may affect him.
Not that he looked bad today, but I was a bit disappointed he did not appear to attempt to follow AC
I agree...he hasn't really done anything
HE just looked so effortless last year save for the 1 stage where he bonked. As to Alps VS Prynee’s i don’t really know…to me the length and gradient don’t really differ hugely…depends on the stage and the year…maybe the timing with Alps coming latter the last few years.
Only done one tour
And one stage in the pyrenees this year. I think its too soon to draw conclusions. Last year he was not riding to attack. He was in complete support mode.
Good point
It must be really different mentally..riding a support VS having to attack at some point
No no that one was serious
I can see just the pressure of being the GC guy slowing you down at some point
"canc"? since when is he "canc"?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I i don't know
How about the Swiss dude who looks like a big Italian ?
cance, tony, tony montan, spartacus, fabu.... never canc
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
montan = montana
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
it's not a nickname used for cancellara
canc – “canceled” (new merism dictionary)
also used as an abbreviation for “cancer”
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
yellow strategy
Hi,
I’m obviously not a LA fan as you can all tell by my ndp.
I’ve been following TDF since LeMond,. funn y thing about TDF, it only seems to occur when an American is winning, or has a chance to win. Glad to see its back for the 1st time in 4 years.
Strategy; LA doesnt care about yellow now. There was a time he did care about it this early and he bonked. That never happened again. As JB said, todays strategy was to let someone attack and get a big lead to take the pressure off Astana. With LA in 3rd, ALL the pressure is off him and on AC. He has the field just where he wants them. Close enough to the front to be a factor, and far enough away to have none of the pressure. It’s all on AC now to defend his position. LA will be more than happy to let that occur. As was said by Ursula yesterday, Patience. It is a virtue LA understands very well, and of which AC will benefit from the sooner he understands it also. Not that I hope it will happen this year.
Did anybody else notice Contador got a little extra assistance from the motorcycles?
He still climbed beautifully but it helped him get away initially.
Hmm just watched it again, not sure about the motorcycle's
he did seem to brake to get around VDB, maybe they did, I’ll watch it closer next time Versus shows the stage.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Did you see the look on VDB's face
It was like…WTF ? Welcome to the big race young man
Or maybe "I wish my team leader could do that" look
not an insult to cadel btw.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
VDB is a star of le future
I think he is insanely talented, he ITT’d really really well in the start and climbed great in 2 Giro’s running. Reminds me of Andy Schleck
Hmm yeah that photog bike helped a bit, but pulled out pretty quickly
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
had to change gears
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
that boy... he do go zoom
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I think the motorcycles were struggling up the mountain
seemed to me they were in Contador’s way and slowing him down.
Anyone think Nocentini could hold yellow until Stage 13 or longer
Tomorrow’s stage has 40 km of downhill and flat after the climb up Agnes. Then stage 9 has 70 k or flat and dowhill after Tourmalet. Seems very possible the peleton will finish as a group.
I think he gets dropped tomorrow
not a natural climber who will still be fatigued from today’s efforts.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Don't think the pace will be that brutal up those hills though
Some team other than Astana will have to take the initiative to try and create seperation up the Agnes.
Yeah true, but still see him dropped
I hope there will be some attacks on Agnes, which would shatter him.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I think you are probably right
Although he is a good Ardennes style rider.
Dear god
The peleton not supposed to finish in a group at the TDF in a mountain stage….ugh !
bunch sprint tomorrow!
will Cav keep the green or will Thor wrest it off his back?
;-)
I'm going for THOR
Cav is literally (and figuratively) a fair weather sprinter. Thor is tougher and i like that – I miss Robbie…the Tricky sprinter is the best of all, and Friere doesn’t seem to have it this year
Did you miss that stage in the rain last year of the Tour?
If I recall I think Cav might have won that one.
didn't he win the bunch sprint after lulu won the stage?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
No he won stage 7 in the rain
Lulu won Stage 8
He warrents a review of all previous stages
Where did he lose his 3 mins before today ? Can he climb much ?
Christophe Moreau still gunna win
He’s just been playing possum for 5 years:)
And Finally....poor Mick Rogers
Finishes 17 mins down…i feel for the guy
welcome to l'autobus, Mick
on the other hand, he was out of it before the stage started. Why kill yourself today when you can try to save energy for a breakaway in the next couple weeks? At this point, stage hunting is the best he can do.
He could help KK but..
KK is crap, let face it..heh
Kim Kirchen is crap!?!
If a La Fleche Wallonne win and a 7th place TdF GC placement is equal to crap, I would hope to be swimming in the shit by the end of the day.
Well hey..he is good but you know
He aint a GC threat and probably never will be
no joke
I think if we listed every rider Eucboy would say they were crap. So far both Kirchen and CVV are crap and they finished top ten in last years tour if I am not mistaken!
Sprinters have also been discredited for being any good at anything...
except riding the last 500m fast.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I stand by the sprinter thing
If you want to ride a bike REALLY fast, do it on a track. They don’t expect people to run 100 M in 10 secs at the end of a Marathon..it would be dumb
but if you don't have a kick at the end of a marathon
YOU AREN’t GOING TO WIN!
Not true..heh hhe
I do tend to go for the climbers though …my favs are Jurgen VDB, Fugelsang, Gesink and umm…Simon Gerrans..cause im an Aussie and he’s had a Fab year
If you are calling Kirchen and CVV bad
than the guys you are rooting for are also Craptastic.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
They are exciting to watch
Which is more than i can say for bloody VV and KK
Is it exciting to watch
your guy Gerrans and Gesink lose to Kim Kirchen as he beats them up the Muur in La Fleche?
Hey now...gerrans has had a good year..
1st, Stage 14, Giro d’Italia
1st, Stage 1, Bay Classic Series
3rd GP di Lugano
7th, Amstel Gold Race
8th, Flèche Wallonne
6th, Liège-Bastogne-Liège
Hey we all like Gerrans surely, and we all think he's hella good
we are just grading them on your scale that has CVV and KK as boring crappy riders.
And the Bay Classics Series? :)
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I don't disagree
I just think the fact that your propensity to like certain guys, doesn’t mean every one else is crap.
Is Cunego crap? He bested Gerrans in all those Ardennes events.
Hey..i said i liked Gerrans cause i'm australian
And all we ever hear here is Cadel. He needs some respect..he’s never gunna be great but he’s ballsy
Meant as a snarky comment at Cunego
I also like Gerrans mind you.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Yeah, yeah. If Gerrans were that great, they would have brought him to the Tour.
(ducks)
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Heh
Well funny you should mention that. Bloody Sastre (Who i normally like lots) wants to bring his 50 year old buddy, so Simon misses out. Today was his stage..it was PERFECT for him.
Why should they bring Gerrans when he flaters in the high mountains...
He won his one stage from a break but he finished the Tour like 2.5 hours down. Cuesta is Sastre’s trusted right hand man…
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Gerrans had a chance of winning a stage
50 year guy doesn’t. Sastre just wants a travel pony…like at the Horse races
40 actually...and where does winning a stage help Sastre
getting onto the Tour podium? he would have to first get permission to ride in a break and then be fresh enough after pulling Sastre around leading up to the mountains…
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The team is
CTT, not Sastre and they should care. If they don’t id ask why. Might have been the only stage they will win at this years tour
except Hushovd just won yesterday...
WIth the logic your saying is that even if you have a guy who won the Tour, you should just make the team around stage wins…
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Except for that stage YESTERDAY
Which I think was won by a guy named Thor Hushovd who last time I checked rode for Cervelo.
BUt oh yeah sprint stage wins dont count.
No props to Thor
That was a tough stage and a tough win…i usually hate sprints (Oscar Friere 3 times best road cyclist in the world….umm i think not) but good win yesterday….and hey guys..i said MAYBE…they didn’t know THOR would win anything at the START of the tour
But in all honesty
He had a way better shot at winning a stage then Gerrans did. Gerrans is a marked man on breaks these days.
Oh Rubbish
Marked by who ? An Astana team who want somebody JUST like him to break away and win ? I don’t think
Or everyone else on a break that wants to win
Same reasoning applies when Jens gets in a break. When you get the reputation of winning out of a break, guys in that break and teams do their best to prevent you from winning.
good grief, what do you have against oscarito?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
He's a sprinter
Which qualifies him as crap I guess :)
Today was Gerrans stage?
Ummm I don’t know about that.
Nah i love Cunego..
He seems….Afflicted…and i dig that. It’s hard being and Italian Poster boy
Well you have just listed a few guys who have done a whole lot of NOTHING!
And the Tour is the most important?
Don't you ever call the Tour of Slovenia NOTHING again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Heh well maybe i overstated it a bit but....
I think GC’s are the pinnacles of Cycling, that’s why they are worth many more UCI points and he only did any good last year because it was a weak ass field – He;s not bad, but he’s not a “big gun” so far as stage races go. 1 day classics anyone of about 100 people can win..it’s kinda like golf….but only the top 10 or 15 are consistant.
That's cause it's king of the classics and everyone turns up
Hmm..i dunno maybe he is …ok :P
Queen of the classics actually but eh
it’s actually because only very few can ride on those nasty cobbles quickly. kirchen isn’t one of them I was just pointing out there is no were near 100 people who can win there.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Astana's new leadership?
Contador’s attack was needless and vain. Contador attacked to distance the only man who would be obliged, by ettiquete, to not chase him – hardly a sporting move. I am not impressed.
Breaking News: The Tour is a competition and people actually try to win it
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
No no no, this is all part of the script
Vince McMahon told me so
Hahahaha, Vince McMahon hahahaha
screwed over tons of people here and then called the Nuggets owner a bad business man, what a moron.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Well he's team leader, I endorse him trying to win the Tour
but you’re right, Lance is the only other guy who is racing here, how could I forget, how dare he attack him.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
he pushed to gain as much time as possible
he knew bert was back there. he made sure the break wasn’t caught. I call that an attack.
an attack is something you initiate
Lance did not initiate that. He was simply in the right spot. Does that mean he attacked Levi too? The guys in the back were just caught out and couldn’t hold on.
I'm using a little broader definition of the word attack
And mind you i don’t criticize armstrong for having hung on to the break, or even for having worked to keep it away. But i think once he did work to keep it away, it was to gain time (thus attack, in a broad sense) on alberto, on levi, and on all the other gc rivals. So yes, Levi too. My point was, if one day armstrong works to put time into alberto and the others, why shouldn’t berto go on an attack later and do the same thing for himself? Especially when he is most likely the strongest rider for astana.
They are not atacking each other
Just as last year when Sastre attacked up L’Alpe Duez he wasn’t attacking the Schlecks.
Once again, you need to stop drinking the Kool-aid that Lance is serving. It’s to their advantage to have peopel thinking that they are attacking each other so that their opponents simply sit back and watch while one Astanii after another go up the road.
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Contador attacked on a mountaintop finish and gained time on all of his rivals.
That’s how you win the Tour de France.
There are only three mountaintop finishes in the Tour this year. I don’t see why Contador, the team leader, should sacrifice one of those three opportunities to gain time on the other contenders in order to flatter a teammate who’s a few seconds ahead of him on the gc in the first week of the race.
by Susie Hartigan on Jul 10, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yah i completely agree...when you are clearly better than everyone
You have to be clear about showing it
Eurosport interview of Lance post race
Interview here Versus only showed the last half of this.
luckily
this “uneven” thread quality (politeness) wise is so full it’s starting to implode
sometimes life is a false flat
i've seen at least 4 replays
of bert’s attack today. One was from the helicopter, beautiful view from above. Incredible his speed while blowing by everybody. Incredible. Thing of beauty.
It was semi-sneaky
He came from 4 back..that sneaky sneak
let me explain this to you... that IS the way you're to attack, especially on a mountain, from the back...
tho, conta has no probs attacking from the front either
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Well i just watch the GC's a lot and
That’s never how lance or Ulrich attacked. Pantini did though i guess. I guess it’s the smart way to do it….just doesn’t seem very manly..heh
you're using the wrong abbreviation
GC = general classification
GT = grand tour
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
wait? ullrich attacked?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
1999, armstrong, sestriere... he attacked from the back
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Armstrong almost never actually attacked
he just launched after his lead-out train ran out.
There’s a difference.
Now, for his world’s win in 93—he attacked. And from the back.
Cycling as a sport is just weird
I can’t really think of any other sports that parrallel it in terms of structure. I know i like it, but i guess as a relative outsider i can just seem stupid bits that seem more tradition than practicality. I guess that’s what makes a lot of sports special to those that like them. Like Cricket..heh
I have these questions about it
A) Why aren’t they recruiting Kenyans and Ethopians and putting them on bikes at age 5 ? Come to think….Why did Barloword do this ? heh
B) What up with the stupid UCI ASO bullshit ? It’s ruining your already much maligned sport
C) Everyone thinks they are on drugs do you ever see any way of shaking this ?
Good questions, my answers
A) probably because this sport has no popularity there while football(bah soccer) dominates. There is no presence of cycling as a sport there. It would be a big risk and quite costly to recruit in such nations. But I wouldn’t mind seeing more diversity
B) Yes that is just that, silly BS. Looks like for now they have found a truce and are ready to move on. We have the new(yet very unknown) World Calender, which includes all GT’s with the PT events for a year long rankings system
C) The only way we and anyone else can be convinced the peloton is clean is when there is a strong, adequate doping system in place(which cycling almost has, it’s stronger than most sports) AND no more cyclists get caught for a while, meaning like a year or two. I am optimistic the real talented guys aren’t doped. The doping cases this year have been guys who are average looking to be great or are out of their prime looking for last glory.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Well i hope it "takes off"
So i can watch more than just the GT’s, and Flanders on TV :)
Oh me too
all we get in America live is the Tour, although Universal Sports has bought the Giro rights and gave us almots live coverage on TV, but full stages, still a long way to go.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
oln (precursor to versus) use to show more cycling coverage.... giro, vuelta, paris-nice, suisse, the classics
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
SFGP
was even live one year. The whole thing!
The good ole days
by australopithecine on Jul 10, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
With your a) part of the question...
They do have a Rwandian (sp?) team that goes around Africa and came to America to do some races but they get way too tired on the flats trying to hang on to be able to do anything on the climbs….If they had suitable training areas with good roads, which are probably not available in places such as Ethopia and Kenya and more riders they could get faster but they just don’t have the kind of money to do anything like that. Quite sad.
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 10, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
+1, money is not there to support cycling
unfortunately an expensive sport.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Actually Lance had almost nothing to with this...
we just don’t like when people diminish our beloved classics :)
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I don't see the point of him coming back
Not to win, but i’ve watched the past 5 years now and would be watching anyways..even as a non hardcore cycling fan. It’s a unique sport with dimensions other sports don’t have…even if some of them are really weird dimensions invloving Belgians being good at anything at all
What's driving this thread
Are all the anti-Portuguese posts. Seems like everybody just hates Sergio Paulinho.
hee hee
From my very limited knowledge
Roman = relative up and comer after winning Romandie and Swiss, no clearly defined team heirachy
Cadel = Hardened GC profression with mucho experience, thin but clearly defined GC teeam for single person
Not in the same class
ooh, smooth
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I also have a question about why there are no black swimmers
But that must be for another forum :P
i always heard
the black people don’t have the ideal genetics for swim, compared with whites.Don’t know if is cientif proved or only rumours…
by semprenaroda on Jul 10, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow that must be the only time Donyell Marshall has been compared to Lebron James
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I forgot one more guy i like
Gilbert..why does it seem like some cyclists are so dull..and others are so exciting. Maybe because they are yawn
Even if he was tired
Why not bring him instead of some clearly out of form guy like Lang
One thing you should know, never question the tactics of Silence-Lotto(Gilbert's team)
they befuddle us all.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Is he really in that good of form to conisder that a dumb statement?
I don’t know how he’s been doing so far but he sure hasn’t got my attention.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
He was in with the big guys up to about the three-quarters mark on the climb
Then he dropped off. He did his job. I stand by my statement.
Did his job? He was team leader and finished behind 2 teammates
job not well done! And that climb was child’s play!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
What--you can't keep a measly 900 posts straight?
Asshat.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Hey why don't you look at the freakin magical triangle!
asspants!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
You...you...hatpants!
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Well i'm obviously a newbie but
The 3 races i’ve watched him in this year, he has done nothing at all
And he's a TT guy right ?
He was crap at the GIRO ITT’s and the first one at the tour
No. He's not a TT specialist.
So why do you think he’s doing a crap job if you don’t know what he’s supposed to do?
I see you have something about Ricardo Ricco ? in your tag
As a newbie i was sad to see him DQ doping in the tour last year. He seemed really exciting and when the exciting people leave it makes everything dull…even if he was just exciting because of drugs.
You mean me? That's because Ricco named his son Alberto...silly but true
yeah he was exciting but you got to suspend the cheats, he’ll be back next year.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Majope
I think we need to borrow the Black Unicorn to drag this thread off to its well-earned death.
He seems to be
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Wow he really had a MASSIVELY MASSIVE FAIL with Bert there huh?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I don't think he's gotten to work on that one yet.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Yeah well he's not worked on it the last few years
Bert will crush that little wie unicorn.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I repeat: the Black Unicorn denies being anywhere near Paris-Nice.
And he most certainly was not seen having dinner with Christian Prudhomme shortly before the Tour invites went out last year.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Look the unicorn doesn't stop evil clearly
seeing it is on the side of Cavendish.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Black Unicorn says:
What is this “side” of which you speak?
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Colorado, right?
The Black Unicorn has some contacts there in the highway patrol. Just saying it might not be a good time to push the speed limit, that’s all.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
But what the hell did he do to the Denver Nuggets...
…that’s what Phil really cares about.
Yes sorry about that
I’m really more after a chat room than a big clunky forum..but hey..this is where the cycling knowledge is right ?
Cycling knowledge, cycling opinion. In some cases, both.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
I can
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
I know it's bad when I find that
a refreshing improvement.
(While I’m in general awe of him, I think the dude is ugly. Like Adrian Brody ugly.)
He's one of the few cyclists who actually has some flesh on his bones.
One looks at him and can feel urges other than the desire to feed him cookies.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
steph will attest to that
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
This is why you and I qualify as heterosexual males, I think...
…b/c I agree that my abstract idea of male beauty doesn’t quite link up to Fabu, but the people who appreciate it in a less abstract way around here seem to be universally on board with the idea that he’s all that. Le shrug.
oh, are you looking at his face?
That might be your problem, right there.
sweet
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION
Many on here are contending (and I agree), that Bert had every right to attack because “The Tour is a competition and people actually try to win it”. Sorry, Phil, not just singling out your quote, but it pretty much sums it up.
Astana leadership (JB) and riders have been consistently saying that there are two leaders on the team, and time will shake that out naturally.
It now actually appears that Bert took it somewhat upon himself to assert himself today… kudos to him for successfully doing so! I applaud his courage and amazing ability!
So here (finally) is my hypothetical question:
IF it would have been LA today that attacked and asserted himself, and AC would have been the one playing good teammate and covering Cadel and the others, would everyone here be saying that is just bike racing and the riders are here to win? Would the same “rules” apply for LA as they seem to be used to defend AC’s actions today?
Again, it has been made clear by Astana (both leadership and riders), that they have TWO guys who can win and both are protected leaders right now. So, wouldn’t LA have been able to do the same thing?
Based on the LA hatertots that seem to be consumed here, I can’t imagine it being so cordial around here if LA would have taken another 20 seconds out of Bert today!
Can't speak for others
but I’d have been just fine with it. I suspect most others here would have been too though, again, I cant speak for them…
Well hypothetical question is going to get you a hypothetical answer(I know I'm not the next Shakespeare!)
I think(and again I can’t know) I would have said "holy shit is that Lance Armstrong attacking in 2009 Tour?!) and would have given his props while at the same time being a bit upset my guy has just lost a lot of gound in his quest to win. But Bert went first, I don’t know if Lance could have attacked but I’m guessing he was content sticking with Evans and didn’t have the legs.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I thought AC was the captain from the beginning.
I know LA said there were two captains, but I’ve clearly missed something if it really has been like you say
“(JB) and riders have been consistently saying that there are two leaders on the team, and time will shake that out naturally”.
Sure, LA and LL are really good riders too, but I think only one guy was named captain before the Tour started.
good point
and, whatever anyone may say, we all know who’s wearing #21…
My comment was based on JB’s comments about supporting both riders as leaders, Levi said the same, and even after today’s stage, Bert himself said:
“We did not talk (with Armstrong). We will tonight,” Contador responded. “It was not a coup. I had nothing special in mind. But I’m on my terrain and I really enjoyed riding in the mountain so close to home,” he added, according to Reuters. But the Spaniard added that “it does not make me the team leader. Only the race will decide on the leader.”
thing is the confusion
over whether there is one leader or two or what. If there are really two, then i don’t think lance would be obliged to hang back when contador attacked. Nor contador if lance had attacked – if they are rivals on the same team, which apparently they are, then when one of them attacks he attacks the other gc rivals plus his teammate. So, … what was i trying to say? I guess i would not be too happy if contador had held back on an armstrong attack, but i’m not sure i’d blame Armstrong for it, i think i’d be wondering what’s going through contador’s head.
To me there is an important difference between contador and armstrong. Contador is the heavy favorite. He appears to be the strongest rider here. He should win this race. Those things aren’t true for armstrong and i think therein lies the difference in how people see these moves and so on and etc. I mean how can contador not be aggressive, even if against his own teammates, and make damn sure that he wins this race? He’d never live it down. He’s gotta go for it and take time out of all his rivals (including LA, LL and the rest) every chance he gets.
Oh... this thread broke...
about 1/3 of the way up :: rolls eyes ::
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
I really wanted to watch in fascination while this thread crawled to 1000 posts...
but we’re going out to dinner so I’m afraid someone said something offensive somewhere up above, so I have so choice but to flounce of and maybe never come back. For, like. possibly HOURS.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
The Feillu brothers after the stage
(H.264 MPEG4 video, 512×288, 32 sec, 3.5 MB, audio from the Sporza evening show)
How do you expect this thread to hold that?!!!
get out, it’s about to blow!!!!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Post race comment
I decided to watch the race last night with no commentary (they tend to repeat themselves and generally get things wrong anyway) and without my usual foray into the podium cafe to avoid crap a la above. I took a dislike to a couple of the new participants on this forum a couple of days ago and made it clear…but to me to respond is just what these people want…to ignore is honourable.
Boy did I enjoy the race last night…I was shouting for more guys than Cycle Girl has hugged and in awe of the scenery and the talent of each and every one of these guys from the Gazelle like athleticism of Contador to the grit of Furlan. I had my music on random and it was amazing what a good soundtrack it was to the spectacle.
This morning I rode four hours in cold rain and the first cyclist I caught on the climb wanted to talk about Lance…I explained that i was deaf…handy eh!
I’m cold…sore as shit and disappointed in what eventuated above. But I’ll be back in front of the big screen tonight, back on the road in the morning and back on here sometime when it all dies down
Enjoy the tour guys.
errrr....am i supposed to sign this??
Interesting.
It seems like everyone here overlooks the fact that lance is like what? 37 years old? With or without a team pulling him the guy is 3rd overall and I realize that it’s early but clearly his performance thus far has trumped that of many of the other younger and supposedly “superior” contenders out on the road. I thought AC’s acceleration today was pretty incredible but quite frankly seeing lance accelerate on countless stages to 7 tour wins still trumps anything I’ve seen contador do up until this point. Even if it’s only because of the experience I still think lance is riding a pretty good race thus far.
I have nothing to contribute to this discussion except
949 fucking comments in one thread? Dude! I was just curious to know if it would load. It did. Wow. 949 fucking comments. That Lance Armstrong dude sure is boring, eh? Doesn’t generate any comments at all.
Go Lance! (Don't tase me, Bro, don't tase me!)
Did you read the thread? Most comments had nothing to do about that Armstrong guy
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Hey, did you see the cool scenery in those heli shots?
Were those mountains granite, or maybe limestone?
"Think globally, bike locally."
Martian sod
they go all the way when it comes to importing material for the Tour.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
probably not.. The Billdozer has been escorted out he back to the dumpsters
where Dan is administering his dose of whoopass
by Christopher See on Jul 11, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL.
But there aren’t that many posts to go…
Oddly, on my computer at least. this thread doesn’t take any longer to load than your average 200+ post thread.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
yep it loads right up
a like 2 years olds diaper…. not that I have any real experience with those
by Christopher See on Jul 11, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
ditto
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I'll join in
I just wanted to add that I love cancer.
And De Ronde is for wimps.
Not!
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 11, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
C'mon, we all know Paris-Roubaix is for pussies
are we still not there yet?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Who is a bigger wuss, though--Stuey O'Grady or Jens! Voigt?
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Huh? Huh?
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Jens!
LDO
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 11, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Pfft both big time wusses. Who is more of a wheel sucker
Bert or Di Luca?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Bert, obviously. Wheel-sucked his way through last year's Giro, didn't he?
Pfft—“I was on the beach!” Man up, little boy, this is the big leagues.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Giro?! Pfft, that's some 3rd class race none of the big boys take seriously
now in a 1st class race like the Volta Algarve Bert attacks.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
You people are clueless
Any minute now you’re going to rambling on about how Floyds testosterone levels were solid proof. They were never! Did you hear what that lab did? It’s a friggin joke is what it is.
Just read Allen Lim on fluid intake and recovery.
Oh and now you are going to tell me Eddy Merckx wasn't overrated
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
If people had just been focusing on the races they were good at
instead of messing about, riding every fricking race they could get to he wouldn’t have won nothing bigger than a kermesse.
I don’t know why people don’t open their eyes and see him for the chump he was.
You're not really good
Unless you win the P-R in one of these.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 11, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Like how many cyclists were there back in the Merckxx days, anyway?
Three? Four? Like it’s hard to beat that field. Now there are millions of them, so winning a stage at Eneco is roughly equivalent to him winning the entire Tour a couple of times.
I’m not belittling his accomplishments, mind you—not that me and Edvald have any idea of what they are—just trying to put things in perspective.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Yeah no kidding, I'd say Merckx may even be one of the worst of all time
oh we are close to 1k! C’mon people!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I'll help.
I think this turned out to be a good thread—I learned a bunch.
More than I did even from Versus and their “so you are stupid” informational pieces.
nope, still not there yet...
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
news flash
Silence-Lotto director: teams have to work together to beat Astana
991 and counting
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I actually feel bad for Cadel this year.
This has been a turnaround Tour for me on several riders. I loathed Cadel last year, and I still disliked Hincapie quite a bit. Now I’m digging big George and the irritation has turned to pity for Evans. Still don’t like Levi or Contador for no particular reason.
Are we there yet?
yes--and that might be part of why I disliked him
I had a spate of bad run-ins with Australians in early 2006, the first year I watched the Tour. I wouldn’t put it past myself to base the dislike primarily on the accent at that point (I’ve since recovered).
Are you absolutely certain he's not German?
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Can you know both the location and the speed of a sub-atomic particle?
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
I'm looking to buy a bike
and I’ve narrowed it down to either a Trek or a Bianchi. Which one should I get?
When I ride on my own, I never wear a helmet because that's not necessary alone.
How big should the group be before it would be better to wear one?
Wow ted, how lame
I would never write this comment just so I could then write 1000! afterwards….
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I think all pro riders should ride on the same, standard bikes.
That way we would see a true man to man competition.
1006 now
I think we lay this beauty to rest now, it’s been fun massive thread.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Sure! As long as I get the last word.
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
Podium!
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 11, 2009 9:03 PM EDT reply actions
Hey! Turn the thread upside down and it actually makes more sense!
Among his many talents, Mark Cavendish can make it rain in Southern California--Chris Jones, ESPN Magazine
let it live
it has a live on its own now
how does tour-de-france-stage-7-post-stage.com sound?
I had gotten some emails on this thingy
or is that thing-y or thingie? Damn it. Anyways, I had gotten emails on this one and I hadn’t had a chance to read it. Tonight, finally haveing time to sit it and enjoy some Cafe goodness. I read ONLY two threads. And they pushed the 2000 comment count. I read the welcome one and then decided to brave this one. The welcome one got me all cozy and made me really miss good friends. Then this one, made me wish we could screen new peeps before they post. Wow. At least in the Welcome thread I found myself laughing out loud versus this one making my curse and shake my head is sadness.
We all can have opinions and I usually love a good debate but being rude is just not called for. Luckily I KNOW C does not suck so several comments above rolled off but wow. If one is really going to go out and bash a rider, could that one please do some research on the rider first. My general rule is to talk up riders I like and ignore the ones I don’t. I truly don’t expect nor want that from all but if I ever break the shell and call a rider shit, I’m sure as hell going to know that the rider has proven themselves to be shit first.
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
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