Cav closing the door on Thor (source)
Mark Cavendish was relegated today for this move, and now sits 18 points behind Hushovd as a result.
almost 3 years ago
tedvdw
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The problem is
It looks like the fence isn’t in a straight line either, even if you account for the slight curve of the road.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 18, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I do see it.
He’s so smooth that it looks harmless, but…he’s teleporting sideways pretty hard, while the wheels are still overlapping. But I also agree with Bruce—seems closer to borderline stuff that happens in many sprints. Suppose you have to draw the line somewhere.
Cav looked back and saw Thor
closing on the right before he went. That was clearly intentional.
+1
Thor was mad enough to give Cav a talking to.
by brunopitton on Jul 18, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Thankfully
he’s too much of a professional to do that. Yeah, Cav closed the door. Yeah, its illegal, but as others have mentioned, it happens all the time and usually doesn’t end up in a relegation. I wouldn’t call Cav a victim here, but much dodgier sprinting is usually let go. He’s certainly no Graeme Brown or Djamolidine Abdoujaparov. I don’t think it was necessary for Cav to lose his points, but it technically fits inside the letter of the rules.
(and yes, my “professional” comment was a very intentional dig at Baden Cooke in the 2005 Giro)
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
He Could Have Been Docked...
…for dangerous riding, too. The first clue is how many times he looked back. It’s a high-speed bunch sprint, for heaven’s sake.
by Chief Commissaire on Jul 18, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions
All Bah's aside...
that’s a classic hook….however, I wouldn’t have relegated him if he kept his head forward and went for the line, as you suggest, and this is where the fault lies…if he makes the same motions, without having looked directly at Thor moments before, than this would have passed no problem. But he did look, and hence, it looks like a classic hook
BAH!!!!....Cavendish?!
by bradBordeaux on Jul 18, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Say what is the actual rule there? I ask because it looks a lot like what Ivanov did to Kroon at the end of the Amstel Gold Race, look and all.
by plinytheelder on Jul 18, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
2.3.036 Riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint and, in so doing, endangering others.
BAH!!!!....Cavendish?!
by bradBordeaux on Jul 18, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Going 40-50 kph is a bit different then doing 20 and using it for position...
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 18, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That much is obvious, I was wondering what the rule was.
by plinytheelder on Jul 18, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Il Grillo diabolic and Cookie in the 200* Giro.
And squat happened.
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
As far as I can tell, the rider who is cut off
has to file a complaint. If you watch the stages in the 2005 Giro, Di Luca puts Bettini into the barrier on stage 3. Bettini takes it like a pro. On stage 4, Cookie whines like a spoiled child and files a complaint. He gets Paolo relegated. In this year’s Amstel Gold, Kroon takes it like a pro and no call is make. If you watch the Thor interview post stage, it sounds as if Thor would have done the same thing, after dressing down Cav for his behavior (the approved method of dealing w/ this sort of thing, rather than whining to the judges), but for Cav’s mouth and his inability to shut it.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
Rogers on Twitter
Just saw todays sprint on TV. Cav did nothig but hold his line in the sprint as always. It was the barrier that moved in. What BS
sometimes life is a false flat
That was Renshaw's take (via twitter) as well
To be honest, it does look to me like the barrier curves in slightly shortly before the line. It’s entirely possible it was a combo of Cav drifting and the barrier. Though to me, CC’s point about Cav looking all around is a good point. Seemed to me he had a pretty good idea of where all the riders and the barriers were, so I suspect the drift right was probably deliberate.
Yeah, the problem is that it really looks as if it may have been deliberate...
…and that degree of doubt would probably make the difference if I were a judge trying to decide whether to ignore something like a little side to side move near the line.
Interesting
McEwen over twitter said the problem is that Cavendish looked over his shoulder at Hushovd and lines himself up in front of him. According to Robbie M, that’s the cause of the dq.
That'd make sense to me...
…when I first saw it from Vs’s angles live, it looked as if Cav was clearly marking the others around him and checking relative positions. This differs from what we’ve usually seen from him, which is that chin on the handlebars driving to the line burst. You don’t see so much of that from above, but the swerve, combined with that, gives a fairly strong impression that there was a deliberate attempt to block.
Difference in Cav's approach makes some sense
Concerned as he might have been that business as usual could mean no yellow for Hincapie.
Oh, it makes sense why *he* would approach it differently...
…but that difference may also make the difference between ordinary moving around during a sprint and deliberately blocking someone, especially if you don’t appear to be truly giving it your all to get to the line.
Or if not deliberately blocking
at least willing to let it happen.
Heck, he’s rarely close enough at that point to have much practice [grin]. Sucks for him, and I’d hate to see green decided that way, but I’d like to think he’s still got a fighting chance, and if so, will win it with no asterisk in anyone’s mind.
yeah, it's like american football's defensive pass interference rule...
did the defender turn his head to look for the football? if so, no foul.
of the defender didn’t turn, but just went after the receiver, it’s a foul.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Good analogy for those that know it...
…relative speed is also part of it. Thor said he had to hit his brakes.
what's the alternative?
BAH!!!!....Cavendish?!
by bradBordeaux on Jul 18, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Gee thanks
… just inhaled my mouthful of coffee…
Mcewen suggests relegating him behind Thor
Not sure if that’s a normal sanction, but presumably Robbie knows what he’s talking about.
I don't think you can do that...
BAH!!!!....Cavendish?!
by bradBordeaux on Jul 18, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Well they could always let him off with a warning
fairer than killing his chances of green on a marginal call IMO
that's true but,
I think it was the looking around bit that doomed him
BAH!!!!....Cavendish?!
by bradBordeaux on Jul 18, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
PS. I agree it's a bit harsh...
BAH!!!!....Cavendish?!
by bradBordeaux on Jul 18, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I agree its a bit harsh too, given the larger consequences...
…but unless they have a more limited alternative, it also sucks to let him get away with it.
Cav does swing left to open a gap...
and then slams it, Id be pissed too if I were Thor
it is a bit harsh given the points competition, but
i’m not sure how much sympathy i have for the guy over this. He seems to have done it intentionally when he didn’t need to (granted he did not go completely overboard and the curving barrier made it worse). He could have beaten thor without trying to block him, but he seemed more interested in blocking him than in just sprinting for the win. I have to think he was pissed about losing the green yesterday and kind of wanted to get at thor a bit. So, you know, tant pix. If he’d just sprinted and used his speed to beat thor, he’d not have this problem now. And cav had all the room in the world to just go for it. No excuse really for his fucking around there.
Barely
There’s certainly no room for Hushovd to get through safely, unless Cav changes his line quite significantly
Cav looks left and moves left and opens up a gap..
Then see Thor and swings right again. If you watch Cav in relation to the centerline its pretty obvious he was moving from side to side. All in all, Columbia ended up riding George out of the Jersey and then Cav gets no points, pretty crappy day for them.
Might be less obvious on the ground than in the helicopter overhead.
Seeing the center line, getting a sense of the curvature of the barriers. Sure, people have to do that all the time. And Cav’s mighty gifted at finding holes. But I’m not going to say I can read his intent. He could have thought, “Hey, there’s no room for Thor anyway, and there is room for me ‘cause I’m smaller and I tuck during my sprint, so I’ll go when Thor’s hitting his brakes.” Or he may not have had a coherent thought. Or he might have been internally chuckling in a tone of pure evil. We can’t know, and neither can the judges. That’s why they have to rule on actual motions (looking back, moving sideways).
Pity it ruins the green race but the right decision
As some say above, Cav is clearly not handling the multiple agendas very well and that causes him to ride dangerously. I have sympathy for his wish to help GH while simultaneously fending off Thor but he made a mess of it and the Cervelo protest was justified.
Per CN
According to Columbia’s press officer: “We can’t appeal and the decision’s already final.”
So that’s that. Thor wins green barring very unforeseen events. I have to say its a bummer to have it decided this way, but ugh… it’d be a bummer for Thor to lose it b/c of what Cav did too. Too bad there’s not a less severe penalty that preserves the competition a bit.
Well I guess this is extra motivation for the Champs-Élysées, and I guess Cavendish can take as consolation if he wins there that 5 stages is more impressive than the green jersey, when’s the last time someone did that? Highest recent one I remember is Petacchi’s 4 a few years ago (in addition to Cavendish last year of course).
Both Merckx and Freddy Maertens have won 8 stages at Le Tour though it was in '70, '74 (Merckx) and '76 Maertens
Armstrong won 5 in 2004…and Cipo had his 4 in a row in ’99…Other than that it is mostly 3 stage wins being the most
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 18, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
So 5 would tie Cavendish with one of the greatest cyclists ever for most stage wins since 76…a bit more impressive than the green jersey I’d say.
by plinytheelder on Jul 18, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You could say that yes...but the stages Lance won were not sprinting stages but you could say he is the master of his domain...
It is impressive though it is lacking without the green jersey but still astonishing though many other Grand Tours have had more stage wins…13 for Maertens in the Vuelta a Espana of ’77 and Petacchi had 9 in the ’04 Giro.
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 19, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
on a side note, just incredible to me that Maertens never won a monument.
by plinytheelder on Jul 19, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
9 in giro 04?
if i were cipo, id retire right there too
Lame
I do get it that looking back in a sprint is a no-no, but today was slightly uphill, and Cav was not fighting for the stage win.
Hell, Bos threw Impey into the barriers and it took months to relegate him, in fact, he is allowed to race….
Oh my he is pissed, isn't he.
Don’t much blame him, honestly. I remember wondering if he was gonna get flagged for it when I saw it live. I’ve defended Cav here before, quite a bit actually, so I wouldn’t say I was biased in any way, but I think Thor’s justified in this one.
Thought it was OTT
for Hushovd to say Cavendish tried to push him into the barriers – Cavendish has no history of being dirty in sprints, and from the overhead view it doesn’t look like that, though it does appear he took his line. It’s probably just a heat of the moment thing, but I think that was a little harsh.
What I liked out of that clip
was the implication that Thor and Cervelo would not have filed a complaint except for Cav’s inability to keep from mouthing off. Dodgy sprinting happens and professionals like Thor know how to take it in stride. OTOH, dodgy sprinting combined w/ a mouthy kid = action taken. Lets hope this leads to Cav growing up a little.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
I kinda feel sorry for Cav...
… but I’m sorry that he messed things up for himself – I’m NOT sorry about the relegation.
Lad needs to work on having his head about him, even while sprinting. Yeah, I know that’s actually a rare thing, but there needs to be more of it.
Cav, look at it this way mate – if you hadn’t been relegated, and had won the green jersey, it would have been a tainted win. Silly mistake, live and learn.
I haven't seen anyone else mention this
But it looked to me like Columbia/Cav was trying to pin Thor against the barriers in an attempt to get a couple people between Cav and Thor. If they could have got Renshaw and Eisel in front of Thor, then Cav could have taken the jersey back. If that’s how it was viewed by the officials, then the relegation make a lot more sense.
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
I wondered if they were going to try that
and if that’s the second reason Cav was holding back / Renshaw wasn’t leading out and peeling off as early. But you can’t always do what you visualize, no matter what the self help books say ; )
There will be carnage!
There will be carnage, not of the Spiderman kind, when Bos and Cav sprint mano a mano. Alas, am I the only one anticipating that day with diabolical cackling?
Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.
Correct me if I'm wrong
But up until this incident, I don’t think Cavendish has been involved in anything naughty.
And I don’t think what happened with Thor was malicious.
‘Carnage’ is a little strong.
bos still has lot to learn in road sprints though
but im there wringing my hands with you
Cavendish
seemed quite philosophical about the whole thing when interviewed by ITV4, said that what happened to him was small, when put into the context of the woman dying yesterday and George missing out on yellow. (they really are pissed off about that aren’t they.)
Hushovd also seemed to have calmed down, saying he had a lot of respect for Cavendish etc.
I think it’s all forgotten, until Paris at least ;)
NB, the word push
doesn’t imply shoving with the hands. I don’t think Thor was making accusations above and beyond what we’ve been talking about.
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