American Polemic

I wonder if anyone has quoted Lance’s famous “no gifts” at him yet ;)

that it would be easier to pull the YJ off of Nocentini’s shoulders than GH’s… Just gotta believe Garmin knew that….

Sorry Chris, I posted the below after you sent this topic over here… so reposting my thoughts on the matter.

It looks like I missed a lot of "fun" today, as I was busy coaching my son’s baseball team (3-0 in our tournament bracket today, not that anyone cares!).

I did take a bit of time to catch up on the happenings, read the interviews, and watch some video replay.

My opinion after looking at everything is that it does appear that Garmin may very well have intentionally been trying to keep George out of yellow. Columbia DS Ralph Aldag, a very good guy and almost always level headed, made it pretty clear in his interview that Garmin was pulling hard the last 10km for some reason, and he even named specific riders who were pushing the pace. But that is bike racing… Garmin would much rather AG2R keep it for tomorrow rather than Columbia. LA was a lot closer to the action than any of us, and LA actually held his tongue quite well after the race, simply saying that it seemed obvious that there must be some sort of rivalry between Columbia and Garmin, as Garmin was pushing it hard…. Like Phil said a few times above, I haven’t seen anything to make me not believe LA at this point. Could Astana have slowed it down more? Who knows. It seems obvious at this time that Astana was not wanting to give George 10 minutes, but enough to gain yellow, and maybe they pushed it too close, and then garmin blew that up for their own reasons. BTW, Garmin has every right to ride as hard and fast as they wish…. their reasons for doing so simply didn’t match the wishes of Astana and Columbia to put George in yellow.

What is most disappointing for me to see here is so much blatant and transparent hatred for certain riders. It was clear to me the first hour I visited here that there are many who don’t like Armstrong. He isn’t my favorite rider, but I have great admiration for him and what he’s accomplished. People who don’t like him, or favor other riders, seem to take every chance to make crap comments. Not that it really bothers me, to each his/her own, but when it crosses the line into blatant homerism, I find it pathetic and childish. It is actually very similar to NASCAR fans and how they act regarding their favorite drivers.

Just think how damn boring would the tour be if LA weren’t riding! Good God, they could just hand the win to CA and not bother riding. Not only does LA present another possible winner (even if it is a remote chance), the Astana rivalry actually increases the chances of others. People also complain because Lance had such strong teams when he won, designed specifically to help him win… very true, but ANYONE who watched any of his wins would know that he would have won by 2-3 minutes instead of 6-8 on just about any other team.

So, why not have some fun? Quit the very transparent and hateful crap? Enjoy the race, even the drama and rivalries?

Just my 2 cents worth, which isn’t probably worth a wooden nickel most days!

a good polemic going into the mountains is tres fun, non?

Bummed, really bummed about George Hincapie not getting yellow. Won’t elaborate on the strategies but what Garmin did was just BS. Sorry!

Todays events is sport, I dont make the decisions on the road. So to all the unsavoury messages I have recieved , Bollocks!

and from Robbie:

ok last cycling tweet for today. It’s BLOODY EASY on this side of the fence!! Respect to ALL the boys riding TdF. goodnight

1. I don’t love it when riders are “gifted” stages

2. But I hate it when teams / riders expect or feel entitled to be gifted something

move on! George isn’t in yellow, one of the 2 non time-trial stages that matter is tomorrow and it’s going to be extremely disappointing! shift your focus =o)

I’ll take Columbia over Garmin. I think the whole argyle thing is ridiculous.

Not only did Astana, Garmin and AG2R chase to keep him out of yellow that inconsiderate b*****d George Hincapie didn’t have the decency to sit up in the break and let him take what was rightfully his. I hear Marc Madiot has got Sarko to have a word with Obama… ;-)

just rewatched the finale on ES.

- Swedish commentators had not one negative thing to say about any of todays “villains” Garmin, Astana etc. They did however marvel at the many ways in which Columbia screwed up.

How come Cadel is getting away scot-free in all this?

Garmin said they were acting stop gaps appearing. Actually, they were working to make Astana work more tomorrow.

Astana said they wanted GH in yellow. But they were actually working to ensure that he only scraped in.

and Hincapie’s most reliable colleague in the break—up til the attacking started—was Maaskant

we should have more

Those guys can tweet all they want but we all know that Bernie Badger alone speaks for cycling.

definitely in the runnning for best thread of the tour ;-)

It’s hard to blame Garmin for seemingly legitimate race tactics. (But still… five seconds! ouch!) As for Astana’s protestations of innocence, a bit overdone maybe, but I suppose they are well aware of how popular George is and don’t want to be blamed for scuttling his chances when it wasn’t them.

Reading through it all to try and work out what went on! The good news is that this particular campsite has free wireless….result :-) It’s totally pissing it down outside, and there are some other Brits next to us in a rather shambolic looking tent. This makes me feel quite snug. And smug.

This whole thing is a bit like the 2000 presidential election. At some point it’s SO CLOSE — and there’s no middle ground, it’s win or lose — that you can point to a million things and say ZOMG THAT"S WHAT COST HIM VICTORY!! Somewhere in France is a manuscript by either Fignon or Guimard listing all the places they could have found nine seconds over three weeks. Not that anyone should read it.

The lesson for Hink and his fans is, try not to parse it out too much, it’ll drive you cRaZy. It’s just cycling…

All he had to do is go six seconds faster. Quit blaming everyone else for your failure to be in yellow. The other teams aren’t out there to make you feel good. This is a bike race and they’ve got to race for their team and not you.

but not for this tour…

that Astana’s interest was in a tactical advantage as well as a gift to a friend (from velonews):

It would have been nice for [Hincapie] personally, and also for our own tactics it would have been good because I was pretty sure that if he took the jersey that tomorrow Columbia would defend the jersey or try to control the race. So that’s a pity.

Then he says disengenously:

But when I saw Garmin coming to the front, that’s something that tactically I don’t really understand. I don’t think that has anything to do with the race, or defending your own interest, or your future strategy.

Indeed, it’s hard to understand how a team with two long-shot podium contenders would see a tactical advantage in denying a tactical advantage to a team with three riders in the top five on GC. What could they possibly have been thinking?

Bruyneel: "(Ag2r) had been working already a lot the whole Tour and they were blowing up. But when I saw Garmin coming to the front, that’s something that tactically I don’t really understand. I don’t think that has anything to do with the race, or defending your own interest, or your future strategy."

Paraphrase: Garmin’s crazy they don’t know anything about cycling.

Johan Bruyneel, sport director Astana: "Once we saw group was going, and who was in there, and who was best on GC, for us it was a good situation. There was nobody there from the big favorites, or contenders, but George was in there. When we saw George was in there, it was definitely our intention to keep the gap so that George could eventually take the jersey.

Paraphrase: Wouldn’t it be great to have George in Yellow. It would really help me out. We would have to work way less.

Lance Armstrong, seven-time Tour de France winner: "The break goes, George is in there, he’s the best placed rider on GC, which means he has a chance at the yellow jersey. For our team, that’s a good thing, and for me personally, it’s a great thing, because he’s my best bud in the peloton. The scenario of George in yellow was perfect for our team. His team would have ridden (at the front) all day tomorrow. It’s exactly what we wanted."

Paraphrase: Awesome less work for us.

You learn one of two things here. Either Johan and Lance aren’t telling the whole truth or they are terrible tacticians. And we all know they aren’t terrible tacticians.

They really didn’t want to work tomorrow. For them to make Garmin look like the bad guy is terrible. They know why Garmin did it, and they did it to hurt Astana. Johan is lying about it not helping Garmin. And let’s be honest, they really didn’t put in any work that would hurt them in the coming days.

I just wish Garmin would come out and say yes we did it and this is why. But I think that would be to hard to explain to the American media.

I like Michael Creed’s take on today’s drama…..“better to have soap opera at the Tour than CERA opera.”

“Me? I think Garmin’s actions were suspect. I think George deserves to be in yellow right now. And I think (maybe I hope) that revenge is going to be a bitch for the argyle boys. But I also think George might have been able to ride harder. From where I was sitting, it looked like he sat up a few times to look around (for help? to see how things would play? was he thinking of the stage win?) I kept saying to Sal, "Why doesn’t George go? Why isn’t he going?"

Maybe he didn’t have it in him. Maybe there’s something we don’t know. But it seems like he should have been all-out, eyes-crossed, driving, driving, driving. Five seconds. Five. Could he have ridden harder if he hadn’t worried about what was going on around him? Only he knows that.

I wish he was in yellow. A lot of people wish he was in yellow. But he’s not. And it’s over"

Yet another chapter in a very long story about things that could have happened if… I would have really liked to see him in Yellow, but the reason he isn’t is because he didn’t ride fast enough. Whatever anyone else’s motivations were, honorable or juvenile, can’t change what the clock says, and it says he’s in second.

Why am I thinking of tsome individuals as more suitable for, say, “Gossip Girls” rather than athletes with Olympic-inspired virtues? Like the Olympics they could at least appear to have those sportly virtues to the public rather than acting like entitled trust fund babies blogging/twittering to the world about how, er, the world is so against them thus their lives are over because something did not go their way; sure, express disappointment but how many (barring the Media in search of conflicts to dramatize) appreciate it being harped upon?

“too bad for George. Ok, let’s get to tomorrow.”

Whether Garmin displayed poor form or not, it’s fucking racing. Sometimes people’s feelings get hurt and sometimes payback happens. We’ll see, but I really hope they don’t dwell on this stuff any longer than today. Which is over as far as I can see.

So I’m way late on this, busy day, just finished watching CST. I read about half the comments and got a bit bored but of course I have to add mine.

…If it was Jens V and Suxybank instead of GH/Columbia I would be bet all hell would have be unleashed on on PdC on how Garmin has no respect for ways of road cycling in Eurpope.

From middle America… Garmin kind of sucks. They embarrassed me in the Giro. Dead to me.

    I’d swear it was Bjarne Riis