VDS Tour de France points--Week 3 (updated daily)
by majope on Jul 19, 2009 11:44 AM EDT
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PrintFind the points for Stages 15-21 here.
Stage 20
Stage Points
1. Juan Manuel Garate 80
2. Tony Martin 50
3. Andy Schleck 35
4. Alberto Contador 20
5. Lance Armstrong 10
Jersey Points
Yellow--Alberto Contador 20
Green--Thor Hushovd 10
Polka dots--Jen Grey 10
White--Andy Schleck 10
Stage 19
Stage points
1. Mark Cavendish 80
2. Thor Hushovd 50
3. Gerald Ciolek 35
4. Greg Van Avermaet 20
5. Oscar Freire 10
Jersey points
Yellow--Alberto Contador 20
Green--Thor Hushovd 10
Dots--Franco Pellizotti 10
White--Andy Schleck 10
Stage 18
Stage Points
1. Alberto Contador 80
2. Fabian Cancellara 50
3. Mikhail Ignatiev 35
4. Gustav Erik Larsson 20
5. David Millar 10
Jersey Points
Jaune--Alberto Contador 20
Vert--Thor Hushovd 10
Pois--Franco Pellizotti 10
Blanc--Andy Schleck 10
Stage 17
Stage Points
1. Frank Schleck 80
2. Alberto Contador 50
3. Andy Schleck 35
4. Vincenzo Nibali 20
5. Lance Armstrong 10
Yellow--Alberto Contador 20
Green--Thor Hushovd 10
Polka dots--Franco Pellizotti 10
White--Andy Schleck 10
Stage 16
Stage Points
1. Mikel Astarloza 80
2. Sandy Casar 50
3. Pierrick Fedrigo 35
4. Nicolas Roche 20
5. Jurgen Van Den Broeck 10
Jersey Points
Yellow--Alberto Contador 20
Green--Thor Hushovd 10
Polka dots--Franco Pellizotti 10
White--Andy Schleck 10
Stage 15
Stage Points
1. Alberto Contador 80
2. Andy Schleck 50
3. Vincenzo Nibali 35
4. Frank Schleck 20
5. Bradley Wiggins 10
Jersey Points
Yellow--Alberto Contador 20
Green--Thor Hushovd 10
Polka--Franco Pellizotti 10
White--Andy Schleck 10
Mark Cavendish 517
Alberto Contador 426
Thor Hushovd 370
Fabian Cancellara 267
Andy Schleck 187
Rinaldo Nocentini 180
Franco Pellizotti 179
Tony Martin 172
Tyler Farrar 155
Brice Feillu 125
Mikel Astarloza 115
Oscar Freire 115
Pierrick Fedrigo 115
Frank Schleck 107
Sandy Casar 100
Serguei Ivanov 100
Mikhael Ignatiev 85
Heinrich Haussler 80
Juan Manuel Garate 80
Luis Leon Sanchez Gil 80
Nicki Sorensen 80
Thomas Voeckler 80
Nicholas Roche 70
Gerald Ciolek 65
Christophe Kern 60
Egoi Martinez 60
Vincenzo Nibali 59
Bradley Wiggins 55
JJ Rojas Gil 55
Amets Txurruka 50
Laurent Lefevre 50
Jussi Veikkanen 40
Andreas Kloden 36
Lance Armstrong 36
Cyril Lemoine 35
Hayden Roulston 35
Johannes Frohlinger 35
Romain Feillu 35
Yauheni Hutarovich 35
Gustav Erik Larsson 27
Roman Kreuziger 24
David Millar 20
Greg Van Avermaet 20
Leonardo Duque 20
Markus Fothen 20
Martyn Maaskant 20
Peter Velits 20
Samuel Dumoulin 20
Sylvain Chavanel 20
Vlad Efimkin 20
Haimar Zubeldia Agirre 16
Levi Leipheimer 16
Sergio Paulinho 16
Cadel Evans 10
Christian Vandevelde 10
David Zabriskie 10
Jerome Pineau 10
Jurgen Van Den Broeck 10
Ryder Hesjedal 10
Sebastien Minard 10
Stephanie Auge 10
Yukiya Arashiro 10
Jens! Voigt 7
Kurt-Asle Arvesen 7
Brian Vandborg 4
Frederik Willems 4
Bert Grabsch 2
George Hincapie 2
Kim Kirchen 2
Maxime Monfort 2
Michael Rogers 2
Total to date: 4927
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Wow week 3 already ..
some schleck points finally … up to ….. 54 ? (points not placing) ;)
sometimes life is a false flat
woooooohoooooooooo
Fat schleck is line …; Hopefully I move up to last
sometimes life is a false flat
The top GC guys will get their reward at the end of the Tour.
Let’s just project a bit. Throw our arms around.
Cavendish- 437 points now. Let’s also give him a 1st on the last stage and 2nd in the Points competition. 577 points.
Contador- 176 points now. Let’s say he wins. That’s 120 points for holding the yellow until the end, 600 points for winning. We’re up to… 896 points. He’ll probably get some points on a couple of the other stages: throw him another 150 points just to be safe. Could be more or less. That places him at 1046.
Hushovd- 270 points now. Give him 2nd in Paris and he wins the Green jersey. 500 points
Andy Schleck- 67 points now. Say he finishes 2nd overall. 450 points.Wins the white jersey- 120 points (final points plus each remaining stage) Places in a couple of stages- 150 points there. 787 points.
These guys are the most likely big points winners. They may do worse and some (Andy and Bert) could actually do better. Other riders may join them with that many points but to me it’s too early to tell exactly who they may be.
I was looking at this, too
and comparing it to last year, where the two highest Tour point totals were Sastre with 800 and Evans with 630—and the top sprinter only snagged 445. Seems like points were much more spread out last year (although since he was pipped during the Tour, all of Ricco’s points were lost, yes?). Will be interesting to see how they fall, and I’m certainly hoping Andy gets as many points as possible.
Side note: 2nd place in the green competition is worth 90 points and a stage win 80—if Cav gets both of those, he’ll go to 607, not 577.
Ah- thanks for that correction
Yeah- I’m thinking last year’s Tour was unusually democratic.
Here’s a few other Grand Tour points stats- and there are probably small errors here, but they are basically right:
2007 Vuelta- Menchov-1340, Sam San (3rd)- 730, bennati (Points winner): 530, Sastre (2nd)- 520, Evans- 445, Freire-460
2008 Vuelta- Contador- 1400, Leipheimer (2nd)- 810, Valverde- 727, Sastre (3rd)- 407, Van Avermaet (Points winner)- 365, J-Rod 347, Boonen- 274
2007 Giro- Contador 800, Benna (Points winner)- 664, Ricco (2nd)- 895, Jen Grey- 529, SELLA! (KOM) 940, Cav 307, Bruseghin (3rd) 455
So I suppose some years the GC winner gets his jersey fairly quickly, wins a few stages, probably gets KOM points, etc and dominates like the Vuelta examples above. Then you have like last year’s Tour and Giro where the GC winner isn’t nearly so dominant (Contador) or gets his yellow jersey late (Sastre) and gets few other points. If Bert goes on like I suggest he’d fall into the middle.
Some riders are probably also more likely than others to rack up big points due to how often they may win stages? Like Sastre doesn;t win many stages and so gets a lower final score then Menchov who if he wins takes control of the race by the middle. Valverde and Sam San are also likely to win stages. It would be interesting to go back and see the all the winning point totals and se what’s average. Hmm. I’ll do that.
Grand Tour winners and their VDS point totals since 2000.
Here we go.
Note: I do not have much info on Young Riders winning the GC so I may have missed a few points there.
The record for most VDS points earned by a winner (and I suppose anyone) at a Grand Tour is Bert last year in the Vuelta with 1400.
The least was also in the Vuelta with an amazing total of just 640 by Angel Casero in 2001. Think about that, besides collecting his 600 points for winning he just managed 40 other points. It would be hard to beat that low total.
Only five times did a winner crack 1300. Besides Bert’s 1400 you have in decending order: Basso’s 1380 in the 06 Giro, Simoni’s 1355 in the 03 Giro and then tied with 1340, Menchov in the 007 Vuelta and Armstrong in the 04 Tour.
I have 26 winners here. 9 of them scored less than 1000; 17 more.
The average or mean is 1094. The median is 1180- Vinokourov’s 06 Vuelta win.
More breakdowns:
600-699- 1
700-799- 1
800-899- 5
900-999- 2
1000-1099- 2
1100-1199- 4
1200-1299- 6
1300-1399- 4
1400 and beyond- 1
From looking at the above table I think I see a split. You got the winners who dominate the race, leading from the halfway point if not before. They get 1150 points or more. Then you have the guys who win late like Sastre last year at the Tour. They get less than 1000 points and often less than 900. So projecting, I have Bert in the middle ground with vaguely 1046. If the Pyrenees had been harder I think he would easily slot into the Dominant group- if he wins of course.
Full data (sorry- I ran out of time on the Giro):
Giro———————————————Tour———————————————————-Vuelta
2000————————————————Armstrong- 1080————————————Heras- 1200
2001————————————————Armstrong- 1170———————————-Casero- 640
2002—Savoldelli- 830—————Armstrong- 1210——————————-Gonzalez- 960
2003—-Simoni——1355————-Armstrong—1200————————————Heras 735
2004—-Cunego-1250—————-Armstrong-1340————————————Heras—1060
2005—-Savoldelli-895—————Armstrong-1250————————————Menchov-1026
2006—-Basso-1380——————-Periero———840———————————Vinokourov-1180
2007—DiLuca—1260——————Contador—905————————————-Menchov-1340
2008—Contador-800——————Sastre——800—————————————Contador—1400
2009—Menchov-1175
As you can see no Grand Tour skews towards high or low point totals. Also Armstrong was a machine, almost staccato-like. Like Pete Rose and his batting average.
Wow--great work!
If you can pick out some skewing, it might be that the Tour is the most middle of the road, with neither the highest highs nor the lowest lows—but Armstrong’s metronomic collection of points might have something to do with that. I wonder what Landis’s points were for 2006, though—since he made it to Paris with the win, by VDS rules wouldn’t he have kept them?
The Vuelta looks to have the widest range, with both the two lowest totals and the very highest. Not sure what that means, except the field is sometimes thinnish, with lots of riders too tired for another grand tour, or showing up and then leaving early for the Worlds. That might mean either nobody is really dominant (low totals) or just one or two real contenders show up (high totals).
Interesting—thanks!
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
I get 900 for Landis in 2006--not all that different from Pereiro, actually.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Yeah I think you are right about the Vuelta and the thinnish fields. With the Tour I guess we’d need more non-Lance data.
Landis-900 points, eh? Now if he had not gifted Pereiro that one stage and stayed in yellow he’d have had, hmmm, three more days in yellow before he bonked? 60 more points. Not bonking would have given him 3 more days in yellow, for a total of 120 more points: 1020. A median score.
I must add too (thinking of Landis) that very few winners in the 2000’s lost the leaders jersey then regained it. Almost all winners, once they got the GC lead, kept it to the finish- especially if they got the lead halfway through or later. In fact I can’t think of anyone who did that.
Going back a few more years in the Tour
1999: Armstrong 1230 (slots right into expectations)
1998: Pantani 1055 (invisible until Stage 10 hit the mts, in yellow from St. 15)
1997: Ullrich 1435+ (white jersey not tracked by CN—I gave it to him for every day he had yellow, but suspect there were at least a few earlier where he led white)
1996: Riis 1160
It might be sort of obvious, but the real dominant guys are the ones conventional wisdom considers GT-winning material: good in both TT and climbing. They’re the ones who take yellow earlier and get points in the TT stages. Pure climbers like Pantani and Sastre can win, but they have to wait for the mountains to get enough of an advantage that the others can’t TT past them later.
Ullrich—damn. He held both yellow and white for 11 days, won the white, came in 2nd in the polka dots, plus finished in the money on 8 stages (2 wins, 4 second, 1 third, 1 fourth). Yeah, I know, I know…but on the other hand the playing field was probably fairly level at the time.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Now mow many points did Petacchi get for all thos Giro stages in 2004?
Mon coeur appartient aux les forçats de la route.
After tallying up the stage wins and points jersey he is at 840 plus another 50 for a second place...
so he is at 890…I am not totally sure how many days he held the points jersey though I will put it at around 11 so that is an even 1000 points
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 21, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow!
That’s gotta be close to the record for a sprinter in a Grand Tour and possibly a record or close to it for any non-GC winner. In the last few years the best other non-GC winning total I have is Valverde’s 960 points at the 06 Vuelta.It’s quite hard for a sprinter to get much above 600.
But that brings up another point--the highest VDS scorer in a GT isn't necessarily the winner.
Like last year’s Giro, where both Sella (940) and Ricco (895) scored more points than Contador (800). Or this year’s Giro, for that matter, where Di Luca outscored Menchov. Now I’m wondering if that’s a Giro thing, since that seems to be the GT where it’s most likely that a rider will be able to snag, as Di Luca did this year, three jerseys (at least for a while).
Petacchi: I get 16 days in ciclamino, so his point total in the ’04 Giro looks to be 1050.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
But Freddy Maertens must have the sprinters' record for the 1977 Vuelta
GT-record 13 stages (1040), the overall win (600), the points jersey (120), leader’s jersey from start to finish (400)…don’t have stats on how many days he held the points jersey, but we’re at 2160 already. Since he won the prologue and first two stages, chances are he held that jersey from the start as well, so 2360 is quite possible.
Take that, Petacchi.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
And the rest of his year...
Maertens in 1977 also won Het Volk, the overall in Paris-Nice (plus 4 stages) and Catalunya (with 5 stages), a stage in Suisse, came in 3rd in Paris-Roubaix, 5th in MSR, LBL, and Amstel Gold, 12th in Lombardia, and won 7 stages of the Giro. He also picked up these stage placings: 2nd and 3rd in Giro stages, a 2nd and four 3rds in P-N , a 2nd in Suisse.
Without counting any jersey points from P-N or the Giro (which he might have won if he hadn’t crashed out), I get at least 5090 for the year.
He also crossed the line first in Fleche Wallonne and 2nd in de Ronde, but was disqualified from both (one source says both for doping, another says it was an illegal bike change in RVV) so would have had another 550 points if those results had held.
I wonder if anyone else has ever had a 5000+ year?
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Sounds like fun!
Okay, I have a limited and rather specialized idea of “fun,” but I’m up for it.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Only you two!
This is pretty neat and it is very cool you take the time to do this. Always fun to bend my mind a little bit.
Oh, yeah.
Hard to say what his best year will be, what with several double-GT wins and sooooo many classics, so will probably have to figure them all.
Um. In the off season, of course. I’m not even tempted right now to try to figure out whether 1972 or 1973 is going to be his best…I mean, Tour/Giro plus 3 monuments one year and Giro/Vuelta plus 2 monuments but a couple extra classics the next…but in ’74 he won the Tour de Suisse and the Worlds…
Er. Not tempted at all.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Ha! yep not tempted. At all.
I hope.
No, I have some other things to do and it will be a long cold winter. We gotta have some things to talk about.
Besides getting excited about Vino’s and SELLA’S! comebacks and all. Oh and Kash Is King!
More rest day fun--how the teams are doing
Columbia 569
Saxo Bank 412
Cervelo 385
Astana 276
Garmin 270
AG2R 250
Bbox-Bouygues 220
Liquigas 200
Agritubel 160
Katusha 150
Euskaltel-Euskadi 145
Caisse d’Epargne 135
Francaise de Jeux 125
Cofidis 120
Rabobank 105
Milram 105
Skil-Shimano 35
Quick Step 30
Silence-Lotto 10
Lampre 0
Not surprising that The Winningest Team in the Universe leads in VDS points, but it is a little shocking that if you subtract out every point earned by Cavendish, they still have more than Rabo and *Lotto combined. Ouchies for the teams of Menchov and Evans!
But at least Rabo made 3 digits, while *Lotto trails virtually everyone. Yep, the French teams. The Pro Conti wildcards who are just happy to be there. Quick Step, even. Okay, they’re beating Lampre, but is anyone even sure Lampre is there? I sort of remember seeing the rainbow jersey in some Monaco publicity shots, but that was a long time ago.
The top of the ranks holds few surprises, though. You’d expect to see Saxo, Cervelo, and Astana up there, and probably Garmin as well. AG2R is doing well thanks to Nocentini’s borrowing the yellow jersey until the main GT guys wanted it. I’m sure that’s very gratifying to the 19 year-long teams who have him.
But what a disparity between the teams at the top and the bottom—the top 3 teams combine for 1366 points, or about 37% of the total available. The bottom three? 40 points, barely 1%.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
It's like capitalism!
The rich get richer!
Thanks for putting this up. I was just wondering about the teams and here you did it.
Chris did an update on that
yesterday--before today’s stage, the leader had 1161.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Oops, meant to be a reply to itswells.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Got it, thanks.
I totally missed that post yesterday.
That’s my team at number 6. And, yes, that’s a no-so-clever attempt at a French pun. I do, however, dig my DS’s name: Jean-Claude Bidon – I can’t say it without giggling. Jean-Claude Bidon
Not bad today--out of 245 available, Team Red Shorts got 145 of them.
Cav 80, Ciolek 35, Van Avermaet 20, Little Schleck 10. Thanks, guys! That puts me back in the top 100…briefly.
14 VDS teams now above 9000 points, and Castro-long name over 10,000.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
160 on the day for me...
… 9862 on the year. I’m coming for you, Castro…
Well, until the Vuelta that is. Unless Lars Boom & Kjell Carlstrom sweep the podium…
A few VDS team stats (year-long only)
- of teams: 185
Highest score: 10052
Lowest score: 4232
Average score: 7260
Median score: 7225
Breakdown per thousand:
4000-4999: 5 teams
5000-5999: 19 teams
6000-6999: 58 teams
7000-7999: 49 teams
8000-8999: 40 teams
9000-9999: 13 teams
10000+: 1 team
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
20 best returns on investment
Number of points earned per point spent (PPS):
Rein Taaramae 540
Heinrich Haussler 532.5
Frantisek Rabon 360
Serguei Ivanov 357.5
Tom Leezer 250
Kevin van Impe 240
Simon Gerrans 235
Stefano Garzelli 211.25
Alexandr Kuschynski 200
Antonio Colom 195
Mathew Hayman 190
Rui Costa 190
Alessandro Petacchi 188.5
David Le Lay 185
Ignas Konovalovas 180
Xavier Tondo 180
Niki Terpstra 168
Kenny Van Hummel 165
Andreas Klier 160
Enrico Rossi 160
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
More thoughts on this year's point inflation
It’s obvious that this year’s VDS teams are way, way ahead of last year—with fewer than 2/3 of the season’s points distributed, one team has already broken 10,000, and another 13 are over 9000. Only 17 teams broke 9000 by the END of the season last year. At this rate, the winning team will have over 15,000 points.
So, what gives? Yes, there were some races added, but subtract out the Olympics and adjust for change in status for various races and your average elite team would gain fewer than 900 points. I’ve long suspected that the popularity of certain high-scoring riders might have the greatest effect on point inflation. But see for yourself. Here are the most popular picks from last year and this year:
2008
Number of teams, percent of teams, name, points earned (whole season)
69 0.56 Karsten Kroon 412
67 0.54 David Zabriskie 271
66 0.54 Brad Wiggins 27
65 0.53 Christian Vande Velde 366
61 0.50 Markus Fothen 205
55 0.45 Roger Hammond 70
53 0.43 Juan Antonio Flecha 490
50 0.41 Jason McCartney 10
49 0.40 Oscar Pereiro Sio 0
47 0.38 Yaroslav Popovych 230
Average points earned for the top 10 picks: 208.1
2009
Number of teams, percent of teams, name, points earned (to date)
101 0.55 Alberto Contador 1562
82 0.44 Heinrich Haussler 1065
79 0.43 Mark Cavendish 1518
78 0.42 Andy Schleck 912
70 0.38 Leif Hoste 280
64 0.35 Allan Davis 480
60 0.32 Vincenzo Nibali 309
59 0.32 Michael Rogers 303
58 0.31 David Zabriskie 130
54 0.29 Christian Vandevelde 110
Average points earned for the top 10 picks: 666.9
Wow. Big difference. If you had all of the top ten picks last year, your other 15 riders would have to average over 461 points for your team to break 9000. This year, you’d do it if they just averaged about 155.
People picked smarter this year. 3 of the top 10 choices have over a thousand points already, vs. 0 last year for the whole season. 7 over 300 points, vs. 3 last year. Nobody under 100, vs. 4 last year.
Okay, there’s still some luck involved—those of us who paid attention to Qatar knew Haussler was likely to have a great season. But over a thousand points? Raise your hand if you thought he’d do THAT well (full disclosure—in my notes I predicted he’d kick ass—with 500 points). And few would have foreseen Oscar Pereiro’s complete inability to score last year.
But in general, it just looks like more savvy choices all around. Well done! (psst—ursula, how do we sabotage that for next year?)
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
(psst- Black Unicorn is great at disinformation)
We can also put Contador at 40 points in cost. Cav at 35. Schleckett at 35. Fun things like that.
Seriously though, you and I will be debating the prices of these dudes with Chris all winter.
and you will no doubt
keep telling people to pick somebody like Gaspa….
yeah I know I’m bitter…and i picked him before you said it….but still!
ursula--looks like Contador's going to score...
precisely 1046 points. Are you good, or what?
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Jeebus, that's scary.
Did you include the 20 KOM points that I listed below?
And what did/will Schleckett get?
Yes, included the KOM.
I did a preliminary version of all GC and jersey points and will just jigger as/if necessary tomorrow.
697 for Andy. Would have been a bit higher if he hadn’t given the stage to Frank and held back to help him conserve his (Frank’s) GC spot today.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
4 and 5 on the green are the most likely to change--points race gets tight there.
But 1st and 2nd are a lock unless one or both falls off their bikes tomorrow, and Ciolek has 3rd by a comfortable margin.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
(Looks at points race)
Yep. Those 4 & 5 places seem like the only points up for grabs besides that actual stage.
The only answer must be that we've all mastered picking the big favorites,
Next year’s VDS should be composed exclusively of TRBWUR.
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
KOM points!
With Mt Ventoux being the last KOM points, we now have our top three established:
Jennifer Grey (210)- 60 VDS points
Egoi martinez (135)- 40 points
Alberto Contador (126)- 20 points
Prior to stage 20 Fedrigo was in 3rd but got nothing today to fall to 5th.
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