It's On! It's On!
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 3:13 PM EDT
in Cafe Happy Hour!
627 comments
Why couldn't we have gotten this a week ago?
"My relationship with Lance is non-existent. Even if he is a great champion, I have never had admiration for him and I never will," the Spaniard told a news conference in Madrid.
It's funny, teammates have a harder time going at each other than more obvious rivals. Here's Thor all making nice with Cavendish:
"We talk a lot when we’re riding but we had a big battle during the Tour de France – especially after he was relegated, that was a hard time – but we’ve talked about it and have forgotten it. The last few days we had a good ride and good race for this important jersey."
Now that's more like it. Funny, Thor seems like a pretty good guy overall, and rides like someone who respects the competition. But he has this tendency to give lectures after crossing the line. Adrenaline indeed!
UPDATE!!! Like, ZOMG!
For some time it appeared the polemica might be overstated, thanks to a somewhat selective translation of the Spanish by VN to come up with the above snark. But if the gloves weren't off before, they are now. Courtesy of @lancearmstrong:
hey pistolero, there is no “i” in “team”. what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated.
Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win.
RT @axelmerckx: A champion is also measured on how much he respect his teammates and opponents. You can win a race on your own not a grand tourPistolero! Oh snap! Mrrrowww!
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That translation is wrong.
Contador clearly distinguishes Armstrong the person from Armstrong the rider. See Greylock grinder’s translation in the other thread, can’t remember which one.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
can't find Greylock's, so here's mine:
I have no relationship with Armstrong, but he’s a great rider who did a great Tour. On a personal level I’ve never had a lot of admiration for him, nor will I.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize that link was to VeloNews, what are they thinking
what a total fuckup
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, in the interest of fairness, should someone let VN know how badly they botched it?
"Think globally, bike locally."
by SpaceGuy on Jul 27, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's probably a mutual feeling between the two
man am I happy they are no longer on the same team.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Seriously shit job there, Velonews.
Even my half-assed spanish could have gotten then one right.
by Sui Juris on Jul 27, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really sure it's a mistake?
I think they did that on purpose to put Contador in an even more negative light, they wouldn’t dare post that Annecy hotel thing either, same goes for CN.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phil....never rely on CN or VN for translations
….always…always…always go to the European source.
I have long stopped using CN or VN for my primary cycling news.
by steph- on Jul 27, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I realize CN and Vn have really lowered in quality
but I’m still not convinced that selection of the qoute wasn’t on purpose.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you want current news in english...I recommend cyclingweekly.co.uk
by steph- on Jul 27, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are a bit too British centered(nothing wrong with that from a British site)
for me to go for most news, really i get most news from here, because people are posting news from sources all over the globe.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's true.
Their translations (though I’ve noticed this mostly with CN) are just transparently awful. I can’t imagine whoever’s doing them passing intermediate whatever language it is (I’m only in a position to check the ones from French).
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intermediate? Intro!
“otra cosa es a nivel personal” … aint no fancy verb tenses to confuse anything there, just looking up the phrases “otra cosa” and “nivel personal” in a phrase book’ll get the basic sense.
by BruceMcF on Jul 27, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was um, trying to be generous.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, so the 'transparently awful' ...
… which was also quite kind to the quality of the translation … that was understatement as well.
Now it makes more sense.
by BruceMcF on Jul 28, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Wilcockson's
comments before the Tour were less than complementary regarding Alberto.
I had half thought about reading his Lance bio, but was completely put off by his lack of objectivity in the VN piece. Yes, I did read Chris’s excellent review, but it’s maybe something I’ll revisit later in the year. For now, I’ve got Lance burn out.
Yes, it does seem that both CN and VN (of course, along with VS) always try spin things in the “right” direction for Team Lance.
On another note, those publications have also done a wonderful job of painting Greg Lemond as a complete crackpot through the years. Again, another example of always making sure that Trek/Armstrong/JB are presented in the best possible way, and detractors are villified.
by The Team Chef on Jul 27, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is...
…that I sort of think that Lemond may be doing quite a bit to contribute to the crackpot argument all by himself. I don’t doubt that the pubs you mention are thrilled to seize on that, but I’m fairly convinced that behind the apparent reasonableness of Lemond’s basic point about performance thresholds there is an enormous problem about how you would ever put it into practice or even establish a workable criterion. That, by itself, doesn’t make him a crackpot, but his insistence that he has it all figured out and his willingness to push some extremely dodgy analysis based on questionable data in major media outlets doesn’t help matters.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do understand that Greg has not done himself any favors,
but I’ve spent a couple of hours with him, and he came accross a genuine fan of the sport and quite intelligent. He’s the kind of guy you could just shoot the shit with for hours on end; a very likeable person and a student of the sport. He did not even come close to the way he is always portrayed in CN and VN. Those folks will take a quote, twist it completely out of context, and the rest of the world will take it as gospel, just like they are doing with this Contodor quote. It’s just shady journalism.
by The Team Chef on Jul 27, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah CN's story on the LeMond presentation at that recent "sport and society" conference
was so mangled that I posted a fanpost with the sole aim of rectifying all the mistakes in their article. If I were LeMond and had seen their article, I’d have been fuming.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That I don't doubt.
One thing I’ve really been disturbed by since I started to pay attention to the sport is just how truly horrible the standards of most English language cycling journalism are. Not only do they fuck up translations, quotations, and sources constantly, but they seem to have no clue as to the distinction between reporting and editorializing, and as you say no compunction about twisting things around to fit whatever narrative they like. If there’s a j-school grad among the entire lot of them I’d be shocked, because I’d wonder how in the hell he or she graduated having learned nothing at all.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bicycling Magazine's word of the day one day was "Peddle".
I almost fell out of my chair.
"Think globally, bike locally."
by SpaceGuy on Jul 27, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wondering....
“He did not even come close to the way he is always portrayed in CN and VN. Those folks will take a quote, twist it completely out of context, and the rest of the world will take it as gospel, just like they are doing with this Contodor quote. It’s just shady journalism.”
Why isn’t this beautiful bit of insight used across the board when reading about all riders?
by sminer on Jul 27, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I even took a few liberties with the above translation, here’s the Spanish:
Mi relación con Lance Armstrong es nula, pero es un grandísimo corredor y ha hecho un gran Tour, otra cosa es a nivel personal donde nunca le he tenido una gran admiración, ni se la tendré.
So you can see he goes out of his way to separate the personal from the professional, “otra cosa es a nivel personal,” “it’s different on a personal level” or “the personal aspect is something else/something different.”
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LA is an unabashed jerk
he feeds off conflict, either real or imagined, and is almost certainly deeply distraught over this loss. Based on everything I’ve read about him he fears losing more than anything else in life so this has got to sting.
My hope here is that Contador will keep that resentment he feels for Lance as a motivational tool all year round. One loss is damaging enough to Armstrong’s psyche but two would be devastating. No way Lance picks himeself off the mat next year if Contador kicks his butt again.
by Fernando on Jul 27, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Resentment
I would just venture a guess that once they go to different teams, the feelings revert to normal rivalries, but who knows what’s gone down off camera?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you read this yet?
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/7/26/963370/changed-impressions-or-im-rooting#18737710
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I can say what that was the most akward podium celebration I've ever seen at the end of the Tour
Even in 1986 Hinault was visibly smiling and enjoying himself, chatting away with all the politicians at the ceremony while Greg took the final yellow jersey. Sunday’s “celebration” seemed anything but, two guys who are either tremendous actors or who just genuinely despise each other. I’m voting for the latter.
by Fernando on Jul 27, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the podium presentation video -
Versus did not show the beginning of this where Lance would not even look at Bert when he barely shook his hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVBShaSmK4s&NR=1
Also, apparently, someone screwed up big time, the Danish national anthem was played instead of the Spanish National Anthem for Bert. I am sure Hinault has thrown that person of sound stage by now.
by roadside on Jul 27, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some perspective
Lance must really hate Andy Schleck too, ‘cause he shook Andy’s hand just the same way as he shook Alberto’s hand….and, and, and, wait, listen, and Andy must really hate Alberto Contador because Andy barely smiled while he was on the podium! And did you see Alberto look over at Lance and smile and scratch the back of his head with his middle finger? It’s like he said “fuck you Lance” right there on the podium!
Sorry, this is all getting to be a little bit silly. People will read into things what they want. Yeah it was tense, but I don’t believe it was tense because Alberto bested Lance, and because Lance is a total dickwad and Alberto is a saint. These types of rivalries are rarely one sided.
by bethie on Jul 27, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's silly but it just shows the tension(which we all know is there)
yet it is clear in that video that LA was much more friendly with Schleck then with Contador. He gave him the two handed shake and had a few words, while to AC he just gave him a little one handed walk by shake. I agree it’s silly and pointless now, but it just shows they don’t have much love for each other. This was even mentioned in a story on the Denver Post today.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is twosided though
Lance has no love and AC is not interested in surrendering the stage to someone he is pissed at.
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it goes both ways
but you can’t say that the tension wasn’t there on the podium.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the first time things are frosty on a podium
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, completely different circumtstances
That photo was taken only a few minutes after Fignon suddenly went from being the winner of the maillot jaune to losing le Tour by eight seconds.
by socal on Jul 27, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he literally collapsed on the road
past the finish line.
And he had a massive boil on his rear.
And his time trial was the 2nd fastest in tour history . . . behind Lemond’s,
by R Mc on Jul 27, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just noticed LeMond's "hat head" in that photo
Remember that LeMond wore an aero helmet in the time trial that day to be more aerodynamic, while Fignon chose to not wear a helmet. A physicist calculated that Fignon’s aerodynamic dis-advantage from choosing to go helmetless cost him 16 seconds, or twice the margin by which he lost the Tour.
Here is a YouTube video of that time trial.
by socal on Jul 27, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some said that his
ponytail cost him more than 8 secs. Lemonde also used aero bars.
by fancan on Jul 27, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
shimmed in place w/ a coke can!
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that TT was such an exciting one
why have the organizers not thought about bringing it back?!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well no Frenchman will be in contention to win the Tour
for at least another 20 years, so that shouldn’t be a reason.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean: Feillu wins for the next 20 years!
older one gets green, younger gets other 3 ;)
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, the false hope is so sad
just so so sad
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To an American
for God’s sake.
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
by OnTheRivet on Jul 27, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awww, sad puppy.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aye
there is tension both ways.
I think the best comparison is to look at how JB and LA treated Floyd Landis in 2005, Lance’s last win and the year before Landis finished in Yellow.
When Landis rode well on the Alpe ITT, Johan allegedly dumped his next blood cell down the toilet. When Lance rode hard for himself instead of saving his energy to support the team’s leader, Johan threw the leader and winner under the bus.
Under the rules that Lance used to treat his teammates, Lance’s behavior should be unacceptable for any team leader. It’s not about the bike, but it’s not about winning and it’s not about the team. It’s just all about Lance and his cult of personality.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think you're lumping 2004 and 2005 together...
2005 landis rode for phonak
2004 landis rode for postal, and that’s the year that landis seemed rather fresh on an alpine stage IIRC.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 27, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops
You are, of course, correct.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 7:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
oops
You are, of course, correct.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 7:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I am not anti-Lance
by any means, but I like to see good sportsmanship. I did not see it there in that video.
Also, the fact that Lance did not show up at the team celebration say a lot as well
by roadside on Jul 27, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually i don't think it does (re no show at party)
if i remember some of the coverage from his last wins, he didn’t really spent time at his own parties — bigger celebs to smooze.
Bah... Garmin.
by cg. on Jul 27, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was snoozing with Matthew Mconanut or whatever his name is
I think Bert(or any sane person) doesn’t wants to hang out with him, so it was probably a good thing he didn’t party with the others.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you mean "schmoozing with"?
“Snoozing with” would be very different. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
by majope on Jul 27, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yea,what a terribly unforunate mistake(snicker)
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*(evil garmin like snicker)
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well have you seen the pic of his girl friend? I think he was off having a party of his own extending his time in the saddle. :-) paling around with AC somehow probably didn’t have the same level of reward.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry but there was a huge difference in the handshakes
May be a bit silly to make anything of it, but there was a large difference. And if all there were to the story was the podium, we’d probably not be talking about it. It’s all the rest as backround that makes these little things look large.
by yeehoo on Jul 27, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance
sounds pretty un-pleased. I’m in catchup mode, but his chat with his buddy Frankie made it sound like things were pretty bad behind the scenes. “We’re just trying to keep attitudes positive” or something. Is that usually a problem when you have a stranglehold on yellow?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"It's On! It's On!"
Well, if AC thinks that feeling as though he was number 2 on Astana is bad, wait until next year, when he really is number 2 on Astana. Behind Vino, no less.
Maybe it won’t matter much anyway; who really thinks that Astana MkIII (featuring Vino!) is going to get invited to Le Tour?
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 3:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
and who really thinks AC will be at Astana next year?
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vino maybe?...no, probably not him either
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think AC will be at Astana next year
see:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kazakh-coup-to-oust-armstrong-and-bruyneel-from-team-astana
“Alberto Contador would continue as the captain of the new Astana team. “We will meet with Alberto Contador to offer him a contract extension,” said Nikolaï Proskurin, the vice-president of the Kazakh cycling federation. “He will be our sole leader for years to come. He will be able to pick out the riders he wants to ride with him. In our mind, the team will be composed of Spanish and Kazakh riders, including Alexandre Vinokourov.” "
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 4:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
So you get he will stay with Astana from that article
but yet then you say Vino will be team leader for sure even though in that qoute it is more than clear that Bert will be the leader, the only one. I think Vino is realistic about what roles he will play, he’s even said he will be domestique and that he knows Bert is better than him.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The article says
We will meet with Alberto Contador to offer him a contract extension,"
So the question is will he accept or not?
by roadside on Jul 27, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, NO!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he may be stuck there next year
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contador isn't going to be stuck anywhere.
All the existence of a rider contract means is that it’s going to be more expensive if you want to do something that breaks it. In AC’s case, that’s just not a problem.
by Sui Juris on Jul 27, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that's good
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"It's On! It's On!"
What I get from this article is that someone by the name of Nicolai Proskurin claims that Astana will be offering Albert a contract extension. Now, Nicolai could just be a spokes-droid, and a quote in a news article isn’t sworn testimony or anything, but the term ‘extension’ implies to me that Astana thinks they have a standing contract with Albert. If Albert’s contract was with Johan, would Astana be throwing out the baby with the bathwater?
In so far as Vino is concerned, Alexandre himself says:
" “I don’t see myself riding for another team,” the winner of the 2006 Vuelta a Espana added. “I have no guarantee yet because I expect to negotiate with Bruyneel in the coming days. But it’s not possible that he disagrees. If Johan doesn’t want me, it will be up to him to leave the team.” "
So Vino will absolutely be the figurehead of Astana. Does this sound familiar to you? Obviously, Albert is the stongest bike rider, but who gets the publicity? Who has domestiques towing him up hills? Who will be shooting for the highest finishing position (other than first) for the sake of keeping sponsors happy?
Why do you think Albert disliked Lance so much?
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 5:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Well after reading through some other comments
I have come to the conclusion it will either be Vino or Bert, not both. And Astana will be Vino, Bert will be on another team.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"It's On! It's On!"
Astana can make it completely impossible for anybody to buy Albert’s contract out, just by asking for way too much money.
If I were whoever was in charge of the team post-Bruyneel, I would keep Bert around, even if Bert wasn’t happy with the arrangement. I would count on his impetuous anger driving him to win everything in sight next year.
Well, everything they are allowed to race in, that is.
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
But JB owns the contracts
from what I can tell, Astana is defenseless when it comes to making sure Bert stays, if JB leaves. It is all very confusing though.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Contracts
I think the thing that we can agree on here is that the arrangements between Johan’s company and the Kazakh sponsors, cycling federation, etc., are all clear as mud.
Maybe we won’t know for sure until the off-season.
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 5:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
albert? his name is albertO !!!!
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 27, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh absolutely
Conta is looking forward to another Tour of “sure we like you but we looooove the other guy” -teammates.
Well no, I don’t think so.
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question: what are his options?
since he apparently has one year left on his contract. How does he go to, say, Garmin or CdE without getting an agreement from whoever has the contract?
btw, anyone know whether the contract is with Astana or with JB? I’ve seen different people say different things, but someone must know.
by Le Comte on Jul 27, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As the Kasakh sponsors split with JB's Olympus Sarl that hold the ridercontracts
those contracts will apparently be annulled.
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anulled?
That angle doesn’t make much sense to me; if you were a rider (and not just a first year pro, but an established vet in the peloton, if not an actual star) would you sign a contract that could just vanish in the middle of the season?
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 7:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
More likely, conditions which give the rider the option ...
… to get out of the contract. EG, all the BS promises you made when trying to convince the rider to sign, it kind of gives the game away if you refuse to include the promises in the contract.
by BruceMcF on Jul 27, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Earlier in the week, Belgian commentators
said that Contador’s contract has a “void if significant team structure/managerial changes happen.” So with Vino taking over from Bruyneel, I take that as significant change and Contador may be free to go anywhere.
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well with Vino coming in
the Kasakh can claim that there will be no major change : “we can assure you the team will still be led by a crazed egomaniac”
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Say what you will about the tenants of Astana
but at least they have a ethos
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
9 tours, dude, 9 tours
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 27, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Void provision
So if AC’s contract has a poison pill in it; presumably, it would be enacted if Johan was fired.
I have a hard time thinking that Astana will:
1) Fire Johan
2) Turn Albert into a free agent
just so that they can put Vino on the start line of the Tour of Poland on August 2nd.
But if that’s what they are thinking, we will find out soon enough!
MBT
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 7:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
Bruyneel already said he was gone from Astana.
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruyneel gone
Right – the Kazakh-component of Astana seems to want Bruyneel gone; Johan has confirmed this himself.
My point is: get rid of Johan, which they would like to do, but lose Albert in the process. It’s like a ‘Albert for Vino’ trade. Would you do that?
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 8:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
I think in this instance it’s rather clear. Vino was instrumental in forming the team inb the first place. He wants his team back aqnd he has the political connections with the money guys back home to make it happen. The money guys want to promote their homeland and Kazakh riders. Thus Vino is the #1 guy. Kash Is King is probably #2.
Bert is Spanish. He’s great but let’s not get away from the #1 priority here.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The key word
is “thinking” — which is a generous description for anything synonymous with “building a team around Vino”.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will be interesting to see what kind of team they cobble together.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Team
Especially if there are other contracts with the same poison pill in them.
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 8:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
That quote
is the funniest thing I have read in a while. How I’d roll if I had a team:
“We will meet with Alberto Contador and offer him the captaincy of our team for years to come. I will get my pro license and ride as one of his primary support guys, along with Emma Johanssen. The Swedish womens’ swim team will be trained in physical therapy and run our massages. The team will be composed of Spanish, American, Japanese and Cambodian riders.”
I mean, you can say stuff. Doesn’t mean there’s a grain of truth or sense to it…
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swedish womens swim team
just made 15 yo Sarah Sjöström World Champ and world recordholder in Rome so they will be expensive. The rest of it I buy.
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on now... Bert is obviously jealous...
… he coveted the lowest spot on the podium… he’s been trying to get there in each of the grand tours and he keeps overshooting.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
by crashdan on Jul 27, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks dan...there went my ice tea...all over my keyboard....HA!
by steph- on Jul 27, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris has the keyboard-cleaning towel
ask him to pass it on
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
keyboard-cleaning towel, hehe, so many possibilities
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it made by Livestrong?
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
by Drew... on Jul 27, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah it's modeled after Lances crying towel
Boo Hoo oh Boo hoo hooo.
Seriously though have you heard anything as childish as his bird droppings since grade school?
by Fred Marx on Jul 27, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know the worst thing about VN's translation fuck-up?
So so many LA fans/small-minded people or people who only use them & won’t come here or go to the original source, will read it, take it as gospel and “proof” of what a “disrespectful idiot” AC is. It’s already started on twitter, several morons i follow just to see what morons think of cycling, have been talking about how he’s showing true colours. I asked one whether he’d read the Spanish version and he replied “Don’t need to, VN have translated it.”
I’m banging my head gainst a wall right this moment in reply to that.
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What's more disgusting...
is that VN seem’s to have deliberately accidentally manipulated edited the story, which by the way came from Agence France Press. Would AFP make this obvious mistake?
Even the New York Times has a more accurate translation:
“My relationship with Lance is zero,” Contador said at a news conference, one day after winning his second Tour. “He is a great rider and has completed a great race but it is another thing on a personal level, where I have never had great admiration for him and I never will.”
by Chainring on Jul 27, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is true, I follow them on twitter for the same reasons i follow moron fans...
I like to read all sides of stuff and the way they post their stories is so anti-Contador. It’s as though LA actually pays them to write these headlines
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well at least NYT’s translation is right
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I feel like writing them a thank you for not being like the other idiots e-mail!
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the Times has professional standards...
…and competent translators.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, now.
Sometimes we all disagree with aspects of their editorial policy, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have one (a la CN, VN, and apparently CNN…there’s a shock.)
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
omigod
don’t get me started. google “walter cronkite” and “retraction”
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After all that,
he has finally been retracted himself.
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris? somebody? Help! Helsey just called me a small-minded moron?
I thought this wasn’t allowed. I demand justice be done.
by sminer on Jul 27, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there there
you’re a big minded, non moron. All set now? :)
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about a huggie?
I’ve got lots of those around.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris, now make sure it's afresh one
no party poopies here at the post tour tea party.
by Fred Marx on Jul 27, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did not call YOU one, i named no-one specifically...
I just meant anyone who isn’t aware that the translation has been, how to put it….manipulated, will take this totally the wrong way. Wasn’t trying to call anyone names, promise. I believe in opinions, but VN are supposed to stay neutral and report things properly, not a translation that isn’t correct.
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's all fun and games
until someone gets hurt.
by Sui Juris on Jul 27, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pliny, you are such an asshat!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smartasses, all of you.
In my book that’s a compliment, always better to be a smartass than a dumbass.
by sminer on Jul 27, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I value the intelligence of my tush
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
guilty as charged
ps did I mention you are a moron?
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, if you fall on your ass
It’s better to be a dumbass, then nothing hurts.
by sminer on Jul 27, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey I just notice your new picture thingy, very nice...
what team is that, exactly?
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah you must mean these guys
http://www.teamblm.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1&lang=en
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're still an asschap
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, you think waiving your arms
around all googly-eyed is going to help?
Go ask your Uncle Grover what that’ll get you.
by Sui Juris on Jul 27, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, that's it, the Tour is over
ELMO gets the boot.
by sminer on Jul 27, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, are you like 12?
Your response to getting called out on the basis of what you said is the tried and true mock whining ‘pardoy’ someplace else just far enough from the original circumstance to deny that you meant anything even though it’s transparently obvious you did. Honesly, I thought this shit went out of fashion with third grade.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ed K do you have anything interesting or productive to say regarding this post as it seems to me you are just acting like a bit of an idiot here. Do you actually have an interest in cycling or do you just come onto forums like this because you dont have any real people to talk to
http://lagazzettadellobici.blogspot.com/
by simonlamb on Jul 27, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok that's it, Chris....
I think Ed just called me a 12 year old ghost in the 3rd grade, or something like that. Doesn’t that also mean he’s calling me stupid or slow, since that’s pretty old for the 3rd grade?
Can somebody tell me what a mock whining parody is? I think I’m in over my head here.
by sminer on Jul 27, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair statement by AC...
When accurately translated. Blunt but accurate. “Great rider, but…” Sort of reminds me of… LA’s statements about Alberto.
If only the polemica could end now. Fat chance.
by tgartner on Jul 27, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's on CNN too
On the front page of their website. Very similar translation to VN.
by Noah on Jul 27, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
now that fucking takes the cake.
makes every stupid cliché about the stupidity of the American media seem true.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes, sorry!
Sunburn still messing with me.
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CN plays to the American audience a lot more than the Australian
I’d say they are an American publication located in Australia, but that article from noah is from cNN
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and actually CN is run out of the Uk now.
Future Publications, of Procycling fame, controls it.
by Fred Marx on Jul 27, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They responsible for the gloss?
I preferred the newsprint version.
by fancan on Jul 28, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CNN is in bed with Lance
seeing Lance writes stories for them often.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CNN
is like every big American media outlet with a casual interest in cycling. Complete crap. At least ESPN gets credit for paying Bonnie Ford to write something sensible.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
My first-ever teammate works there, I like to think he’s talking sense into people on the whole what-the-hell-is-cycling thing.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but apart from the medicine, the fresh water......what did they ever do for us?
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously the roads, I mean the roads go without saying.
Brought peace?
Oh peace…..shut up!
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
by Drew... on Jul 27, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are there more details on the Annecy start incident?
It just seems so unbelievable. The hotel I think was about 10 kms from the start … it would have been something if AC had to cycle himself there
sometimes life is a false flat
by Willj on Jul 27, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least he wouldn't have had to warm up, eh?
Though it is pretty incredible. I’d like to get more details/corroboration myself…
by Le Comte on Jul 27, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SRSLY
I do that all the time. Sure, it’s annoying afterwards, but if I get to the line with my trainer, I will always screw around and get no warmup.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doubt that he had his bike with him
in his hotel room or locked up to the lampost outside the hotel, though
by yeehoo on Jul 27, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we in Rotterdam yet?
What a great tour TdF 2010 will be.
Think of all the attacks (on the road of course) that are being gestated right now.
Can’t wait ;-)
by Chainring on Jul 27, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Apparently the organizers already know what the route will be like next year
and will finalize it in September…any rumors yet people?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but that's been known for a while
I’m more curious about the mountains next year, which climbs will they do and how hard will those stages be. I guess I could wait until October but….no.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I know
but don’t know anything about that, sorry.
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine rumors will be flying within the next two weeks
so we will see.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second stage
one of our campmates this weekend is from Rotterdam, she says day 2 runs along the coast, across lots of bridges and whatnot, down to De Panne maybe?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is this a good idea?
I mean, are we sure these islands will be there next summer?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, it could turn out to be the swim leg for a new Tour format
Ultra-Triathlons, do these things exist? Probably yes; if I was able to think of the concept other nutters were too and went and did it.
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nodding head
niiiiiice!
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UltraMan in Hawaii
Too lazy to go look it up, but it’s a 3-day event and is something like:
Day 1: 10k swim, 90 mile bike
Day 2: 170 mile bike
Day 3: Double marathon — 52.4 miles
by Noah on Jul 27, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't that make Lance the favorite next year?
I hear he can run…
by Rushfan on Jul 27, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the dominace of Cavendish and AC and the re emergence of Lance again next year is and will cause further review. Like any major event such as the Olmpyics I think they have at least a 5 year plan, however I’m sure that it will be reviewed now to make sure that someone else can have a remote chance of winning the tour. Alp de huiz for sure my guess and I think we will see FLAT time trial of about 50 KM, the climb was too tough in this years TT for the vast majority of riders so near to the end.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they can have 5 year plans, maybe outlines
but it all comes down to what cities will pay money to get stages, so to plan 5 years ahead is probably impossible.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right on, a framework or strawman would have been a better word. I wonder how many mountaintop finishes there will be?
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ASO is probably hoping for Schleckett to rise to the challenge.
Bird/Magic
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the road, so they're carrying frame pumps next year?
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Jul 27, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose my bias is showing
but I didn’t have a problem with the quote even mis-translated. Lance has always been about performance and winning. Personality didn’t matter, as long as he won. He certainly has been exponentially less gracious in defeat than any of the riders he has beaten, with the possible exception of Pantani, who was cut from the same cloth.
On the other hand, I don’t see that as bad for Lance. I just wish he and his handlers weren’t treating 3rd place as a victory. Winning counts. Getting beat means something. “Happy to be on the podium” is such a violent departure from Lance’s past personality that it feels like a betrayal.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Watching the video
It was not as bad as it reads.
Link.
OF course he says what we all know but pretty calmly.
Tranquilo.
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nothing New AC and LA
Those that follow golf know that Tiger and Phil have no relationship either, when you have two Alpha males dueling for the top prize it’s only natural. When AC went off the reservation to join team Saxo Bank twice did AC expect any good job well done for dissing his teammates back at the hotel?
Look at AS how many minutes did he lose by being the devoted and faithful teamate to brother Andy
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 5:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem with your assertion
is that Contador didn’t work with the Schleck-tet and wasted time looking around for Kloden.
And, as an aside . . . what happened to all of the rumors of Contador being aided by CdE? Except for Lulu, was that team in the race?
by R Mc on Jul 27, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Ventoux, Gutierrez did a little pace-making and gave him a bidon...
And on stgae 17 Uran tried to help as much as he could, but couldn’t stick with the pace…
Plus Lulu was pretty much near him 90% of the time
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When was the second time?
“When AC went off the reservation to join team Saxo Bank twice . . "
Stage 17 I figure is one reference. We can argue about whether he was attacking them or not btu no matter.
What was the second time you are referencing?
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The stage numbers are a bit of a blur, but the first time was when AC took off against directives with Lance and Kloden at the front. When AC attacked he left Kloden and Lance back with the others as Andy took off up the hill and was able to put time on both of his teammates. The second time I think you have the right stage, dropping Kloden before the summit and leaving Lance controlling Wiggens put probably a minute into Lance and Kloden. AC was merrily left to charge down the hill with the Schleck brothers as Lance and Kloden chased from behind.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance and Kloden at the front?
I never saw that.
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he means the stage to Verbier
Kloden led Armstrong up the hill.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Verbier?
Wha? When Contador put the whole field away? you mean Bruyneel said THAT was against team orders also?
I do not think so. After Verbier, Bruyneel said the issue of “team leadership” was decided.
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. I agree with ya
That’s the stage bikegang is pointing to though. Perhaps he’s thinking of Arcalis instead and got things mixed up.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are no teams in Golf
there are in cycling, and to many people’s amazement, they play a huge role in the sport. Here we have two teammates dueling, it’s more of a Shaq vs. Kobe while both still on the lakers thing(although I’m getting sick of nba references)
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My assertion was solely to AC’s no relationship comment, Tiger and Phil are teammates at Ryder and Presidents cup and do work together, but it still remains that they have no relationship. That was the point that I was making.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all Contador's fault
According to Ligget
AC: He’s (AC) not a team player, etc, etc. Astonishing interview.
I never had to listen to Ligget during the tour (thankfully)
sometimes life is a false flat
by Willj on Jul 27, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Phil with the whole French media thing is being quite a hypocrite
because hasn’t he been running a sort of “hate campaign” against Bert this year? Plus, cyclingfans posted a bunch of quotes on his twitter which praised Lance a lot, and they came from(gasp) L’Equipe.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My question:
is it Phil, or is he simply following orders from Versus? It seems pretty clear to me that Versus, as a whole, has a mancrush on Lance and anything that gets in his way has to be belittled or put down. It’s kinda like high school
by Le Comte on Jul 27, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how does Phil come across on other channels?/other nations?
as I understand it, Phil and Paul do English commentary all at the same time for a number of English channels in different countries (ie. SBS in Australia, ?ITV in UK), where the other channels do their own additional interviews/fill-ins that would replace Craig and Bob, Frankie and Robbie for instance. Do these other channels get commentary from Phil and Paul pre/post-race (like the pre-race show on Versus)? and if so, what are they like re: Lance then? Or perhaps these other channels only get the play-by-play commentary that would be exactly the same as we see via Versus…
(I’ve often wondered how they coordinate – I read once that at times when we only hear Phil for a while on Versus, for instance, it likely means that Paul is doing something specifically for one of the other channels or vice versa… maybe that accounts for the repetition/confusion we sometimes get, ie. Paul doesn’t realize that Phil just said the same thing because Paul was actually talking to someone else at the time … nah, couldn’t possibly explain all of it).
by guidemd on Jul 27, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah interesting that you asked this, I watched entirely on line but noticed that sometimes when Paul was talking you could hear Phil (at least it sounded like Phil) in the background, as though he was going back and forth from one commentating gig to another…then he would come back and either repeat something Paul had just said or contradict him ;)
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep . ..
Paul does the comments through commercials and whilst Phil is off doing other stuff—and then Phil comes back in.
by R Mc on Jul 27, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phil does bumpers, promos, etc., for Versus
and joint commentary for the terrestrial broadcast with Paul. When Phil is doing the promos, bumpers, etc., or commercials are broadcast, Paul was doing the webcast.
I am just about certain they’re not doing any live commentary for anyone else.
by Sui Juris on Jul 27, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Used to do for Oz ...
… and it was as described above for the webcast … Phil’s commentary would go away but you would hear a faint echo of his voice saying something. I guess SBS got enough dosh to cover the whole stages, so they get their own commentary until the VS coverage starts. After my decade in Oz was up I got back to the US to find, lo and behold, there was Phil Ligget extolling the glories of Indy Car racing or bull riding.
by BruceMcF on Jul 28, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ITV, my Dad watched their highlights
Yet asked me about so many things because all he heard about was LA and that they kept misinterpretting things and being anti-AC. They barely mentioned the white jersey for the entire first week, my Dad kept having to ask me who had it!
During the race we get what they’re saying on Vs too, the one day i was forced to use them for a while i nearly threw my remote at the TV after they rambled about LA for ages, then said the Schlecks looked tired when they looked great and then called Uran Sanchez. Gah!
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's not much difference on SBS
although, Matt Keenan, who calls the race until P and P cut in is intelligent and balanced. The sycophancy begins with the two Ps, although in my opinion Phil is worse than Paul.
Unfortunately, Mike Tomalaris, the SBS host also feeds the Lance frenzy. A couple of not so well known cyclists however do talk sense. After the Contador/Klodi debacle, Dave Mackenzie robustly defended Contador and criticised Bruyneel which I found reassuring.
There’s a groundswell of support in OZ for Matt Keenan taking over the commentating gig. in my dreams Jens! is his co-host. I want him on air after he retires.
by Seahorse on Jul 27, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
yes. P&P called Bert stupid twice – that I heard – in the prerace interviews.
and that’s when I muted the tv.
all the other guests however, do have their senses. And I’ve already sent my rant to SBS asked them to get Keenan do it next year.
by rbjhan on Jul 27, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noooo! You Aussies can't have him back.
by fancan on Jul 28, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we'd love to give it a bloody good go.
Don’t worry SBS is govt. funded :(
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part government funded, part advertiser ...
… they prolly can’t claim its part of their charter to splash out more money for “better commentary” … but if they could convince an advertiser that better commentary would translate into more viewers, maybe.
by BruceMcF on Jul 28, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was keeping it simple
Anyway, we’ll keep our fingers crossed.
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
judging by the way some of the comments go on their website.
I’d say it’s not looking that good…
:-(((
by rbjhan on Jul 28, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't really thinks they know who Jens! is, do you?
by rbjhan on Jul 28, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funnily enough, for all the frustrations i share
with you on this subject, I don’t think they’re completely clueless. i bet only Switzerland and Australia had Tony as the face/body of their TDF ad.
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright
for the sake of argument, let me copy some of the comments over. not that I want to do it!
I laugh sometimes at the Lance haters using false arguements and inferences to justify their hate. They suggest Lance was not being a good teammate yet all evidence points to him putting his own aspirations aside in the Alps for the good of the team. They insist he’s doping yet he never failed a test. Is there anyone on this planet who has been tested more than Lance? They call him an arrogant “you know what” yet if you watched the procession into Paris, most of the riders in the peleton, the people who know him better than us, came and had a jovial chat with Lance. Besides, it takes an element of arrogance to be a leader in endeavour in life. I’ll bet there are several members of the peleton anxious to join Lance’s new team.
by rbjhan on Jul 28, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this meant to go with the SBS dribble
we were having? And I don’t understand the 28 agree, 6 disagree.
Am I being thick?
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, he has failed a test
during the 99 tour . . . but an rx was cooked up to cover it.
And, those 99 samples . . .
by R Mc on Jul 28, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
R Mc I agree with you in spirit
but whatever conclusions can be drawn from the cortisone test in 99, it must be tempered with the fact that the concentration of the banned substance in the test was below the legal threshold.
This is where it gets all nit-picky. Yes, the test revealed the presence of synthetic cortisone. Yes, Lance swore to high heaven that he had not taken any treatment since his cancer, only to appear w/ a post-dated TUE.
However, it must always be remembered that the concentration in Lance urine was below the legal threshold to be considered a positive result.
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/jul99/jul22.shtml
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 28, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My view (not that you asked for it)
is that when we’re talking about someone’s livelihood on the line, or the ideal by which we’d like to catch doping positives, I’m well onboard with strict adherence to standards.
But in this situation, where we step back and give the ‘well, in my considered’ opinion? Lance was a doper. Through and through. Legal has fuck-all to do with it.
(for whatever it’s worth, I don’t condemn him for that.* Look at everyone else then. Was just an even playing field, no?
*I do condemn him for the self-serving bullshit since then, though.)
by Sui Juris on Jul 28, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well stated and I concur
although I have to admit the self-serving bullshit is occasionally entertaing.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 29, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely, its all down to Contador that ...
… Team Astana lost the TTT, the team championship, had noone else on the …
… oh, wait.
Huh, that AC can’t be about Alberto Contador … is there another AC in the race?
by BruceMcF on Jul 27, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just like it's Lance's fault...
That AC came out of the Tour empty-handed.
by tgartner on Jul 27, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Precisely ... don't recall which stage it was, but the ...
… stage when Lance attacked when AC was in trouble, and helped Andy Schleck put minutes into AC, claim the yellow jersey and …
… oh, wait, that was the Verbier-Martigny stage, in Andy’s dreams. Looking back, the judges must have ruled that only actual times on the actual course were to be included.
by BruceMcF on Jul 27, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his nick-name used to be
smelly phil, for somewhat obvious reasons . . .
by R Mc on Jul 27, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, it just gets worse and worse
i was holding onto a sliver of respect for Phil but it’s gone now. difference between riding for yourself and using up a team entirely out of self-interest please? one is more difficult i would think. could those two possibly get their noses any further up Armstrong’s backside aperture? oh wait, an aperture lets in light – guess i’ll have to think of another way to get around the censors… :)
"The soul selects her own society then shuts the door" - wise words from Majope
by nicknorco on Jul 27, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and to qualify that
i’m not even a big Bert fan, i just can’t stand this creepy pandering to Armstrong. ugh.
"The soul selects her own society then shuts the door" - wise words from Majope
by nicknorco on Jul 27, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also:
It was all Cedric Vasseurs fault, wanting Lance to keep his word. It was all Kevin Livingston’s fault for accepting a contract with Telekom after Linda McCartney folded. It was all Frankie Andreu’s fault for breaking Omerta, it was all Floyd Landis’ fault for being too strong a rider, etc. etc. etc.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff
I think there are medicines he could take but he should still be supervised so he doesn’t accidentally leave the stove on and stuff.
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"He was out to get time when he could"
Hm, isn’t that supposed to be the point?
by Le Comte on Jul 27, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you!
If they had a shred of respect for him as a maillot jaune contender, they’d be a little more supportive of him — you know — WINNING!
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah good point – the fact that he won the Tour in a pretty dominant fashion kind of gets lost in the shuffle sometimes
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RexQLrcqwc
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
et tu chris? the link's in the wrong part of the post...
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 27, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you fucking this up Dude?
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
by Drew... on Jul 27, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what a moron!!
AC was the team leader, he can go when he wants to…
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not how it works.
There’s a reason teams have a DS and team meetings so everybody knows the plan and what their roles will be on a stage. Being team leader does not mean you can ignore the strategy and take time you don’t need on your highly-placed team mates who might have a shot at the podium.
Even Bert later admitted that taking off when he didn’t have to and dropping Kloden was a mistake.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
by majope on Jul 27, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree some
but you also have teammeatings so you can handle problems that arise instead of say Twittering them for all the world to see.
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then Berts wrong
Imo. There is no such thing as time you don’t need. No one can know what’s down the road. You don’t walk by a twenty dollar bill lying on the sidewalk and think “I’ll leave that for later” or “my buddies are coming this way they’ll pick it up for me”. Nosiree.
Or more likely Alberto was smoothing ruffled feathers.
by fancan on Jul 27, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dollars. Canadian. Won't take you far.
by fancan on Jul 28, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah.
Fine. Another Bloody Caesar, then.
(Except not really. Fucking clamato juice? Really?!)
by Sui Juris on Jul 28, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
acquired taste
bloody good one too
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 29, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on team meetings and the DS.
But you dont know how much time you need until the race is over. The race was still fairly tight (Kloden was only 2’ 17" down) going into a time trial. How many times did Lance back it off to protect his teammates position? You cant accuse Bert of being a bad teammate if you look at his record compared to Lance’s. In 4 GT wins, Bert has had 5 teammates finish in GC top 10. Lance had only 2 teammates in the top ten in GC (both finished over 10min down). In what world is a GC team not trying to put time into it’s rivals whenever possible. If AC had more time, Im sure he would have done what he did up Ventoux and just covered attacks.
Bert also said the Kloden told him he could go…
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruyneel
Contador is right though. Bruyneel’s instructions were geared at Lance winning the tour and not in Contador’s interests. He then ignored those instructions….I would have done the same thing.
by Crazy D on Jul 27, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
competitors compete. Any true champion who is ordered to tank or sandbag isn’t going to take it well. I can’t blame Contador for not being inclined to be less than the champion he is.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 28, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a hypothetical for you all:
Imagine it is 2001 and Miguel Indurain signs with USPS after Lance has won his 2nd tour. Now, imagining the race turned out the same way it did this year and Lance had the win sewn up before the Ventoux stage like Contador did. Given what we know about Lance’s personality through the approved biographies, does anyone believe that he would have ridden to defend Mig’s podium place, rather than chased a stage win on the Ventoux?
I can only imagine him racing for the stage victory instead of riding in check to make certain Nocentini, Wiggins, or FSchleck didn’t get away.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I could see it
if the narrative had been “Lance brings the great champion back into the sport and welcomes him on his team”
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting since Armstrong himself brought up this very analogy, in that recent interview for a Spanish paper, can’t remember which one. The interviewer asked him about who should be team leader, and he said that if Indurain had come out of retirement to be on his team, Indurain would have been the leader – the quote was something like “I mean, it’s Indurain.”
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was with elpais
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I believe him
because he had so much respect for the patrons when he started out.
I nearly laughed out loud when I read that.
by R Mc on Jul 27, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW Armstrong just came out swinging on Twitter
hey pistolero, there is no “i” in “team”. what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated.
Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I’d drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn’t win
sometimes life is a false flat
by Willj on Jul 27, 2009 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Lance, not everyone likes you
fucking deal with it
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did AC have much to gain from making this comment? Nothing wrong with the analysis there isn’t any I in team.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but there is no Z in hypocrite either
sometimes life is a false flat
by Willj on Jul 27, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is an "I" in radio shack
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a surprise though, Lance's tweet
Turning the other cheek is not in Lance’s ethos. He would love to fight this not on the road.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, he doesn't want to fight
if he did, he would confront AC face to face, instead of making a twitter message, which he knows AC can’t respond to directly and were his followers are the only one’s who can. Just like with the media boycott, he can’t handle people who don’t like him.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a straight up boxing match or any other type of fight, lance would knock contador out in the first round
by adammoney on Jul 27, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and there's always penismeasuring
spitttingcontests…….
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chess cycling
would be interesting
Chess Boxing
sometimes life is a false flat
by Willj on Jul 27, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ferret legging
Sport of champions, or drunken Yorkshiremen. It’s the only solution to this…
by Jimbo... on Jul 27, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they should have a reality tv show where they just compete in everything…
boxing, chess, golf, basketball, etc…
by adammoney on Jul 27, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just as long as there is no cycling
Because then LA just gets his ass kicked and that is not going to be good for anybody.
by Jens on Jul 27, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
conta did play soccer when he was younger...
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 27, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and indian leg wrestling.
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
by ELVISGOAT on Jul 27, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eventually
That s where it will be fought though.
And next year’s Tour.
And now no moral victories fro Lance.
“The “lot to learn” line is going to bite him in the ass it seems to me.
My gawd, does anyone think Contador will not be in the best shape of his life next Tour? An extra motivated Contador is what Armstrong wants? Really? Nuts.
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
When he returned to the sport and up through most of the Tour, Lance truly believed that he was better then the others, including Contador. As soon as he realized that he was losing to Bert, he changed tack, saying that in another year or competition will get him back stronger than ever.
That’s what he believes. He thinks he can beat Contador. He doesn’t even worry about Schleckett. He thinks it’s just a matter of him trying hard enough.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good for him
Hope he gives it his all and when he gets his head handed to him next year, then what? More moral victories?
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance has yet to say I will beat Contador
All he said that provoked this is yes he is a great rider but I think he has some weaknesses. And I am sure the weakness he is hinting at is the “team” aspect. So yeah if Contador beats him next year then we can look at this again, but can’t speculate on it till then.
by ncmussell on Jul 27, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is the argument
that AC has no weaknesses?
I think the Schleck brothers would disagree.
by Nazgul35 on Jul 28, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps the Schleck Bros. will share it with us next year.
by fancan on Jul 28, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every GC hopeful will be trying to share it ...
… with us next year … but more by demonstration than by gabbing about it.
That’s why its more interesting if The Accountant goes to a team that gave up 1’29" in the TTT this year than a team that gave up 18".
by BruceMcF on Jul 28, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least
he didn’t say he was just training for cross season
by Jimbo... on Jul 27, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Donny, You're out of your element!
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
by Drew... on Jul 27, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least I'm housebroken.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 28, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance I think always has a means to the end in what he says and does, getting into AC’s head maybe part of what he calculates to be part of his overall strategy, but who knows. Coming back after being off the bike for three plus years and with a broken bone and he stills comes in third @ 37. I guess he knows what he is doing.
I think we all read to much into this, great champions do respect each other. I remember well the Lance/Ulrich incident where JU launched himself into that creek and Lance waited on the road for him to catch back up after Bike change bandages instead of putting the hammer down.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
Ninth place isn’t bad.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/designa-grand-prix-ne/results
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
by Pendleton on Jul 28, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just propaganda
to support the evil Lanceopoly and the secret Gramin plot to put a Hapsburg on the thrown…
It never really happened…it was Phil and Paul using sock puppets!
by Nazgul35 on Jul 28, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better they are apart now, I once had a Scotsman and a Englishman in my group that no matter what they never got along. It was like the second coming of William Walace pretty much everyday. I agree with a previous post, different situations and different times will bring things back together somewhat. It is truly remarkable when one sees the great relationship that Bush 1 and William Jefferson Clinton have now after all these years.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"There is an "I" in radio shack"
comment du jour!
"The soul selects her own society then shuts the door" - wise words from Majope
by nicknorco on Jul 27, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got me on that one didn’t follow the Z part?
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is
not that AC wasn’t a team player, but that LA couldn’t handle being a worker bee instead of the boss man. The true captain of the team was settled on the road. Only one of them doesn’t understand that.
Lance, never, NEVER, would have take the crap that he’s been giving to Contador from anyone. Hell, he wrote off his best friend for signing a contract with the wrong team after Linda McCartney folded.
He says someone has a lot to learn, but I don’t think he’s learned the truest lesson: Alberto deserved to be the protected team leader.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plenty of wrongs on all sides and plenty of blame to go around. The best practice for either is if you have something to say about someone say it to their face, don’t get it out into the media feeding frenzy. Each one has their point and a point and there will be support or non agreement from everyone depending on where you come down on it. I was hoping for Astana 1-2-3 it’s a shame it didn’t turn out that way.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no need for agreement
That is why they call it a competition. The whole issue was settled on the roads of France. Only one of them doesn’t understand this.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, so then why is AC in front of the mike or is that the point your trying to make
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance never acknowledge that AC wasn't the best rider
They have just taken it to another level with these comments. Who knew that someone saying “yeah I think he has some weaknesses” could translate all the way into this.
by ncmussell on Jul 27, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn thoe Schleck brothers...
oh…wait!
by Nazgul35 on Jul 28, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But for Armstrong to be tweeting this . . .
hypocrisy has met its poster-boy.
by R Mc on Jul 27, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, this is the problem, it’s like he wants one set of rules for himself and another for everyone else. If you’re going to trash-talk – and I kind of like Armstrong’s trash-talking – then expect it from others, especially when you’re no longer the boss.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit, is there an I in Victory? In Triumph? In Winning?
Actrually, isn’t there an “I” in “equippe”?
Indeed, there’s “moi” in Maillot jaune … also I, “me” and “team”.
Better be careful about the chase for it, though, there’s also “jail” in there.
by BruceMcF on Jul 28, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but there's no 'i' in conjunto
although there is one in “formacion” but not in “squadra”. Definitely not in ‘ploeg’
Once upon a time in Connecticut, the athletic director at Xavier High School was famous for mangling that cliche into a stirring reminder to the students to “Just remember, THERE’S NO I in WIN!!!!”
puzzled looks ensued . . .
by R Mc on Jul 28, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Si, pero hay una ...
… «i» en «Triunfo» … y por eso, es posible que El Contador se centraba en el triunfo.
And there my extremely limited Spanish hits a brick wall.
by BruceMcF on Jul 28, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carlton Reid just came back with:
The other day one of my kids hijacked my tweets. No doubt the same has just happened to @lancearmstrong
I can’t stop snickering.
by ZoeRochelle on Jul 27, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking lance out of this
I am curious on whether AC has thanked his team at all? I don’t recall seeing anything but I probably overlooked it. if he hasn’t then I have no problem with the first tweet.
by ncmussell on Jul 27, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contador the second podium finisher of the Tour after Hampsten to not share his prize money?
It could happen.
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol Hampsten did that?
really? that’s hilarious, so goes against his “nice guy” image. When was it? I thought his best finish was 4th, could be wrong though.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, perhaps it was "GT winner"
Story comes from Bob Roll, i have seen it quoted on this site.
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, that is absolutely hilarious.
Must be the Giro then? His team fucking kicked ass for him that whole race! I wonder what the deal is? Anyone have a link?
Hampsten was pretty much my first favourite rider, I grew up 3 hours away from his hometown (which in that part of the world is less than nothing). ARGH! ;)
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't Roll
Roll claims to have bought a house on what he got from Hampsten’s Giro win . . . Or, he used to.
I sort of doubt Roll’s veracity.
by R Mc on Jul 27, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hampsten contributed his prize money to the team's pool, but didn't forego his share of that pool.
Or at least that’s how I remember it. I also seem to remember that he had a very poor contract and no sponsors and likely no chance of getting any big ones from the Giro win, and needed his split of the total prize money. But he certainly didn’t walk off with the whole thing!
by GreylockGrinder on Jul 27, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was probably at the Team Astana victory celebration.
Which a certain somebody could not be bothered to attend.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has Lance?
because without the team support he got he may not have finished 3rd.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance seemed to say the right things about the team
throughout the tour. Even if he did not mean it deep down I don’t think I ever heard him not thank his team for what they did.
by ncmussell on Jul 27, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I was just asking, I thought he was a good teammate through the race on the road
not so much off it.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just remember back to the TTT stage where I saw Lance out in front most of the time doing hugh pulls for the team.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, Contador also took big pulls on the TTT
They actually 100% looked like a team working together on that stage
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By Lance's own admission
he said that he did little of the pulling and that Kloden was the star that day.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would expect him to say that, but from watching the stage I saw it differently.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You watched Versus didn't you?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So did I, I got that same impression
but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was because Versus only showed Astana when Lance was pulling.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it is little things like this
That you don’t hear Contador saying.
by ncmussell on Jul 27, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that we're listening/reading/watching
English language media. That skews our perceptions. Hard to get a sound bite when it has to be translated.
I’m saying this realising that so many of you here speak a number of languages – and I am in awe.
by Seahorse on Jul 27, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After the TTT
LA was on VS. saying that Bert was taking massive pulls.
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
by ELVISGOAT on Jul 27, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah he also tweeted that Contador’s pulls were incredible, Popovych’s and Klöden’s too
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we get a Lemond column, too?
I want to see a three-way slapfight.
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
by Pendleton on Jul 27, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah, twittering like teenagers who think the whole universe is against them.
Mon coeur appartient aux les forçats de la route.
by Josenka on Jul 27, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Lance is following in the footsteps of Lemond?
"Think globally, bike locally."
by SpaceGuy on Jul 27, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, more JB twittering
some guy wrote this to him
This ones for Alberto, it is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt!
to which douche queen responded with this
@terrywawest – I will borrow this one from you if you don’t mind
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ignore my name calling, I really despise him
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, I hide it well don't I?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone want to take a gander as to who this tweet is referring to?
One is not only judged by his successes but also by the obstacles he is able to overcome to achieve them.about 14 hours ago from TwitterBerry
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 27, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but, if it's conta, is this a complement or a snark?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 27, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If snarky then it would refer to Contador
and his team
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
These semantic issues are certain to be the reason behind World War III.
Mon coeur appartient aux les forçats de la route.
by Josenka on Jul 27, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ahh but who do the two nations everyone fears side with? ;)
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
by Helsy33 on Jul 27, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which nations do you refer to?
Mon coeur appartient aux les forçats de la route.
by Josenka on Jul 27, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just be glad Bush
isn’t still president…we’d be at war with Spain…“you don’t mess with Texas…”
by Nazgul35 on Jul 28, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Casey Wasserman joins in
Her Tweet
Contador about Armstrong “I have never had admiration for him and I never will”…maybe, but he WILL look up to him next year on the podium.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe people are already tarsh talking about the ToC
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the 2012 Olympics instead?
Mon coeur appartient aux les forçats de la route.
by Josenka on Jul 27, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad thing is
this is without a doubt the thing that will make even non-cycling American fans pay attention to next year’s Tour.
Versus will triple its ratings for next year.
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 7:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
PdC too?
rubbing hands together…
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kos?
Pfft… he’s working for ME now…
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 27, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't mess
with the Great Orange Satan!
by Nazgul35 on Jul 28, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey! An idea!
Make Lance and Bert settle this once and for all at…… FLANDERS!
See who can come in 57th!
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance spent a lot of time on Sunday chatting with Devolder
I’m sure he was praising Stijn for his successful attacks against team orders.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean we'll get 3 times as many Billdozers?
I’d better get a bigger mallet.
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
by Drew... on Jul 27, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I seeing the same thing here....
“otra cosa es a nivel personal donde nunca le he tenido una gran admiración, ni se la tendré”
I speak Spanish fluently from several living years in Latin America. What he specifically means to say is that he has never respected him personally and never will. Clear personal attack beyond anything from Lance’s general competitive assholishness.
But I don’t think it’s anything personal, per se. They don’t know each other. I just don’t think Contador respects his teammates or gives a damn about who they are. I would challenge anyone to find an example when he’s ever praised teammates specifically, including Levi, Kloden, Popo, Hincapie, the Kazakhs, Zubeldia, anyone. Or when he’s shown actual happiness when a teammate has had any success. Take this for what little it may be worth, but the little inside knowledge I have from the sport (which is several months old now) is that teammates feel the lack of appreciation or respect from Contador. Certain people have left him for not-greener pastures in part because of it.
The kid can still grow up but I don’t see him as cocky and conflicted but a good kid at hear, like Cavendish. I see him as something worse — and, for what it’s worth, not someone who gives a damn about clean cycling.
I’ll be rooting for the Schlecks next year.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Saying you don't admire someone
isn’t a personal attack
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a personal dis
Conta got sick of Armstrong’s shit.
What’s interesting is Armstrong did not have enough self control to be the “bigger man.”
Lots to learn there.
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personal dis
rather than personal attack, ok.
Neither man showed much maturity.
One of the subtexts missing here is rhat Armstrong wasn’t just being a competitive bastard who won’t let it go. He’s also sticking up for friends in the team and pelotong who have seen a long streak of dismissive and selfish behavior from Contador. A lot of guys strongly dislike AC, and for much better reasons than Lance’s.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sticking up for wha??
Puhleeeeaze.
Armstrong cares about Armstrong. Period.
Now you go too far. Hell, Contador is probably the same way.
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Armstrong cares about Armstrong
Contador cares about Contador.
And Armstrong has to build a team. So you could read it that he’s taking the side of certain people - and being nicer to other riders in the peloton - for purely selfish reasons.
My point is that Contador’s own behavior over time will get paid forward also. Neither is admirable.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who are all these riders that hate AC???
the only ones I have heard about are on Astana.
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair question
why would riders on the same team as a GT winner hate the GT winner? Is it because….he’s a dick?
by bethie on Jul 27, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, should have clarifed...
the only complaints that Ive heard out of Astana have come when a certain someone came out of retirement.
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw AC do nothing to help any teammate during the tour, he was just looking to go up the road at any opportunity. Lance at least was sitting on wheels after AC had flown the coup. As for Saturday Andy came back to help his brother, AC was just chasing up the road and only when Andy came back it was the only time that he made any meger attempt to look like he was helping a teammate. The Saxo guys knew that given any opportunity that AC was going to dis his teammates and played that strategy to almost get both of them on the podium. On stage 17 he kept looking to see if Kloden was going to catch backup when he already was part of the group before AC’s stupid attack. Lance was only 1 minute back and had a chance to bridge over and catch on the decent then we could have had three Astana riders and two saxo riders on the decent, what a stupid move but it was fashioned to not only try to put time on the Saxo guys but also his teammates.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First of all, team leaders aren't meant to help others do well in GC
they are leaders, the others are domestique’s for a reason. Then on Saturday he had to follow Schleck, he was 2nd in the GC, had he really wanted to he could have attacked Armstrong. Stage 17 has been debated enough, but about ruining Kloden’s chances, Lance made up no time on the Schlecks going downhill and would have never made up a minute on them.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have the facts so I’ll say that your comments are correct. As I recollect though Lance did bring the time gap back about 30 or 40 seconds to the leaders and caught Kloden near the finish. I agree he acted more like he should have on Saturdays climb, it still didn’t makeup however for the two previous attacks he made on the other stages.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the gap was about 1:56 on the top of the final climb
and 2:18 at the finish, the Schlecks miraculously descended very well. Again, stage 17 is dabatable, I agree it was a mistake, IMO not intentional. His attack on stage 7 did nothing to hurt his other teammates, JB was just bitter he passed Lance in GC.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget that Kloden couldnt hold the wheel of Armstrong coming into the finish
I think the Schlecks might have dropped Kloden anyway if AC wouldnt have attacked.
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once AC attacked they didn’t have to, they are like two kids loose in a candy store. I can’t imagine how big their eyes got when this got dropped into their laps
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been hashed and rehashed
but for what it’s worth Andy said Sunday in a interview that he and Fränk were noting that Klöden was running out of steam before ACs attack. The man was toast anyways.
by Jens on Jul 28, 2009 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair's fair...
I thought AC was working for both Lance and Kloden on the last mountain stage…he could have attacked Andy Schleck and rode away. but he didn’t.
Both AS and AC were wroking to try and get their team mates podium positions.
by Nazgul35 on Jul 28, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And offhand as I said above
Contador was very supportive of Leipheimer at Castilla y Leon both in words and on the road. I remember his also praising Chris Hornber both before and after Horner crashed out of Pais Vasco. Again, these are just from the top of my head.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contador has no relationship with Levi
Even though Levi, unlike Lance, speaks Spanish.
I’m sure there are examples when some reporters has asked him about the work of teammates and AC said, yes, they did very well today.
I don’t see anything more.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why don't you look up Castile y Leon race reports on CN then?
Contador worked for Levi. Plain as day.
Saying that Bert and Levi have no relationship well, they’ve raced three Grand Tours together and a few stage races. Sure I can believe they aren’t best buds but they’ve been teammates and have worked for each other.
Hmm. Perhaps you can give specific examples like I have done. Might help your case some.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Castilla y Leon is
worth how much in the general scheme of tradeoffs they made for each other?
Bottom line for me is that AC’s attitude toward his teammates, especially the more talented ones, is nothing new. Hard to prove with links and numbers, but definitely a known entity in the peloton from what I understand. I guess we’ll all just have to wait for the tell-all books to come out…
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"definitely a known entitiy of the peloton"
could you please list the instances were that has been proven? Just as Ursula listed Castilla Leon, which he was 2 time defending champ of btw.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. 60 Percent
You could do more here then vague charges. I’m open to be persuaded but you seem to have an agenda. You challenged everyone to come up with examples and I did. Then you say my example is not important- Bert’s hometoiwn race you understand. Seems like you are making allegations and not backing them up.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm accused of having an agenda?
Talk about throwing out allegations. Wonderful.
Bert targeted PN and Pais al-Vasco, which he hadn’t done in the past. Targeting all three didn’t fit his race schedule so he did CL for training. No sacrifice for Levi there. If you want to get further into the Alberto-Levi relationship, the 2008 Vuelta was far more telling. Alberto was furious at Levi for actually riding his bike hard on the final TT — beating him on the stage and almost in the overall. That’s the real source of animosity between the two. I tend to take Levi’s side on that (whereas I don’t care about Lance’s side in the latest brouhaha).
As for other teammates, most is what I’ve heard from people who should know. If you want to blow it off, fine, which is what I said in my opening post. I don’t feel comfortable getting more specific. But I don’t doubt the media reports from the Tour that said Contador was only talking to Paulinho.
And, to answer Phil below, it’s true that on some level I just don’t like the guy. Mostly I just think that he and all the LS riders who were documented to be in Manolo’s program should have served their time.
If Garmin reviews AC’s blood records, picks him up and he fits in well there…a serious reconsideration of views will be in order. Certainly he has time to grow up.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rooted for Bert in the Vuelta
and not since. The snottiness toward Levi afterward was the reason I started to dislike him. “I’m just saying it’s not normal for someone working for you to finish less than a minute down in the GC. If [the time trial] had been 20 kilometers longer, I don’t know what would have happened.”
Link here.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
by majope on Jul 27, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not as snotty as Cavendish but yes I bit snotty there, sure
there have been other accounts were he praised Levi after the Vuelta, he also listed him as his top pick for this year’s Giro.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a sec.
When has Cav ever slammed a teammate in public, or dissed the help they gave him after a win? Link, please—because I sure as hell don’t remember that.
On second thought, I don’t doubt he’s yelled in the heat of the moment , but slagging off a teammate later in an interview doesn’t seem at all his style. Even if you don’t like Cavendish you have to admit he goes out of his way to praise his team for their help.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
by majope on Jul 27, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more!
Cav is brash and not my fave but his generous praise and affection for his teammates is wonderful to see.
by Seahorse on Jul 27, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a snarky comment
but he has been a lot more snotty to non teammates then Bert.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I agree he's very gracious to his teammates
but Cav has an awesome team for him, one that sacrifices it’s 2nd tier GC threats so he can win. Bert’s team sacrifices a clear chance to win the Tour because the DS loves the other guy.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sacrifices a chance to win the Tour?
Um, no.
To do that, they would have needed to unleash Zombie Maurice Garin on Contador at the top of Ventoux.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, having half the team support the other guy
and causing so much drama was very risky.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well this was in response to the question
“Do you think Leipheimer was working for you or for himself?”
So his answer clearly imples that LL was working for himself. I imagine that LL was doing a bit of both and his answer doesn’t rule that out, either. Which, i imagine, is why he answered it that way.
This is similar to lots of the LA criticism. Leave out the interviewer’s question which gives the context, then take the worst possible interpretation. Just as i often think after i actually see an armstrong interview, i imagine that this one was not as bad as all that either. I really think we pick these guys to death sometimes.
by yeehoo on Jul 28, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, fwiw
I don’t get this impression at all. I’m not in the bag for AC or LA (tho’ at this point, LA can fuck right on off). I pay attention, but I suppose not terribly so. And I really haven’t picked up the AC = bad teammate vibe. Genuinely interested in knowing more.
by Sui Juris on Jul 28, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some stuff he said about Horner after his crash at Pais Vasco
“It has not been a good day for the team,” said Contador. “I was right behind them and I couldn’t look. Though if Horner only has a fracture, we’re lucky.”
“Any team would notice the loss of a man of his quality, but I believe that we have a sufficiently strong squad to control the situation, and there are other riders at eight seconds in the overall that also want to do the race.”
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/apr09/apr10news
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trust me on this
Everyone who speaks Spanish knows the code phrasing here. “Nunca le he tenida una grand admiracion, ni se le tendre” is very much meant to say: I don’t respect the guy as a person, never has, never will.
That’s a personal attack. A personal attack on an asshole? Ok, sure. But my point is that it’s not a function of anything actually personal. It’s a function of Contador’s inability to respect teammates in general, magnified to the nth degree by Armstrong’s persona.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He may not respect Armstrong, but he doesn't represent his teammates
he has said kind words before of teammates, and a lot of his teammates are very close to him and respect him a lot, Kloden and Paulinho at the Tour. Why should he respect LA and JB?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For one thing
JB signed Contador at the beginning of 07 even though his name was clearly in the Operation Puerto files. Most teams wouldn’t touch him, and for good reason.
Still not sure where Kloden’s loyalties lie. If I were him, I’d want to get out of the soap opera altogether.
I’m definitely not him.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JB signed him, then AC won him 4 GT's
and now JB is agreeing with a twitter person who is calling AC a fool. He shouldn’t respect him anymore.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
uhhhh
“Most teams wouldn’t touch him, and for good reason.”
-I dont recall AC testing positive for anything…
AC has honored the contract that he signed with JB so far. You also dont know what JB said/promised AC before LA announced his comeback.
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Kloden runs to Radio Shack, Getting thrown off the bus near the summit on stage 17 sends a big message.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Levi left after Stage 12...
…he tweeted something like “Good luck to most of my brothers on team Astana”. [my italics]
What does that say about the state of the team at that point? Who should Alberto thank? (Although I imagine he did anyway, since he appears to be handling this much more coolly than that other guy.)
"Think globally, bike locally."
by SpaceGuy on Jul 27, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a misinterpretation IMO
From http://twitter.com/LeviLeipheimer/status/2685439737
Thank you all for the support. Good luck to all my friends in the race and most of all my brothers on Team Astana
by tedvdw on Jul 27, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defintiely a personal attack
A deserved one. “Poor Lance” is your line?
by BTD on Jul 27, 2009 9:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lance should watch the mountain stages in Spain next year
just sayin’
by elmundo_enfuego on Jul 27, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
neophyte question...
apologies in advance, as I realize this will come off as uninformed or possibly already discussed. but the shots by LA at AC for “not following orders” has me wondering what the orders were ‘99-’05. specifically, was JB more protective of LA’s lead (at the expense of his teammates) than he was of AC’s? Feel like I need some historical context.
the question arose from LA’s comments on Twitter about Kloden losing ground during st. 17. someone replied " But I don’t think you waited for Heras or Landis back in the days…", and he came back with “No but I always followed team orders. Always”.
Also, near the end of the coverage yesterday on Versus Phil said something to the effect that AC will face a different rival next year when LA has a team that is dedicated solely to winning him #8, a team that will “not be there to win stages or ride against him”, etc.
It’s genuinely confusing for someone new to the sport. If AC deserves criticism for attacking selfishly, at the expense of his teammates, why is it a seemingly acceptable assumption that LA will assemble a team (likely under JB) that exists only to serve its leader? Phil seems to be saying it’s reasonable for LA to expect that, but not AC… which takes me back to wondering about JB as manager from ‘99-05. Was he all about securing the top spot on the podium, no matter the cost to the team? That certainly didn’t seem to be his priority this year…
again I’m a very new fan so please forgive the question if it’s already been discussed ad nauseam.
by willowby on Jul 27, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You might be a neophyte, but that's a great question
and really just shows LA and JB are being hypocritical. Landis and Heras were strong riders but they put all their efforts into LA winning, because LA was clearly the strongest rider and the one with the best chance to win, those teams were built solely for him. Team Astana had two leaders, Bert and Lance, they supported both heading into the race, why? Because LA wanted a chance to win and Johan Bruyneel gave him that chance, maybe it was a fair chance but Landis and heras never got those chances. US Postal may have had a chane for two podium finishes, but they wanted to make sure LA wins above anything else, yet suddenly JB wants to go 1-2-3 and potentially risk Bert winning. Hypocritical there JB. Had LA attacked in 2005 like Bert did on stage 7, or dropped Landis like Bert dropped Kloden on stage 17 JB would have said nothing. Sorry, that was a biased explanantion on my point, someone else may give you a better one. Oh, and stop listening to Phil Ligett if you’re looking for balanced commentating.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just off the top of my head Lance sent George Hincape out on a break and then let him win the stage. Also Lance setup Landis for a stage win only to have Ulrich and Kloden stomp on that one. I also remember Lance stopping and waiting for Ulrich when he went airborne into that ditch in one of those tours instead of racing down the road. Those are just a couple of quick examples, I’m sure there are more events.
by Bikegang on Jul 27, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many stages did LA domestiques win in the TDF during LAs 7 wins?
by ZoeRochelle on Jul 27, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
two... hincapie and salvodelli in 2005
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 28, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this one???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yf1nJYkCHQ
Lance was kind enough to let Landis try a breakaway on the descent.
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's different than giving another guy a chance at riding for GC
he would have never allowed that, everyone behind him all the way, allowing a guy to go into a break on a non decisive day isn’t the same.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't "let" anyone win a stage...
hincapie was up the road in a break and the break gained sufficient time that the peloton would not catch them before the finish….
and what does la and ullrich on the 2001 stage to luz ardiden have anything to do with this discussion?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 28, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the "let" here
refers to the common perception that USPS/Disco domestiques were never given a day off from helping Lance so they could pursue personal ambitions.
by Jens on Jul 28, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also implies /acknowledges the talent of some of those domestiques.
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't know about others
But Savo definitely was not happy with JB.
hence ran away from Astana in 07…
by rbjhan on Jul 28, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or to Phil H. ;-)
Another view: Astana had Contador, Armstrong, and Kloden at 1, 2, and 4 in the GC going in to Stage 17. Wiggins was in between, and the Schlecks were at 5th and 8th. Astana had a shot at sweeping the podium, although Andy Schleck was always going to be a problem.
Bruyneel’s take was that all Contador had to do to protect his lead was to hang with the Schlecks, since he already had 2:26 on one and 3:35 on the other. Kloden was with him, and would have maintained his own lead over the brothers if the four riders had stayed together.
So: Contador had no reason to attack. He was told not to attack. He disobeyed orders and attacked. The Schlecks stayed with him, and only Kloden was dropped, and ended up losing 2:27 and dropping to 5th. Thanks in part to Contador’s attack, after which they pressed their advantage to gain time on Wiggins and Kloden, the Schlecks moved up to 2nd and 3rd in the GC.
True, we don’t know what else might have happened on the stage. Maybe the Schlecks would have continued to attack. Maybe not—they’d already tried and been unable to shake Contador, so maybe they’d have been content to put time into Wiggins. Maybe Kloden would have been dropped anyway. Maybe not. We don’t know any of that, but we do know what happened: Contador’s attack lost his own teammate time, with no advantage to himself.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
by majope on Jul 27, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had Kloden held on, they would have wen 1-2 or 1-3
and Lance would have been off of the podium, but they wouldn’t want to hear that.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And even if Landis had been in that situation and Lance would have attacked
JB would have said nothing, he’s too emotionally attached to Lance, I stick by that.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was wearing #21 for a reason...
“Contador’s attack lost his own teammate time, with no advantage to himself.”
He put time into Kloden who had been time trialing well. This is an advantage for AC just not Astana. I honestly, dont think AC rode that bad of a race. Individually he rode it about as well as he could of all things considered. He never seemed to be in trouble at any time.
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eek. You think he deliberately tried to take time on Kloden?
I just thought he made a mistake. And on second thought, still do.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
by majope on Jul 27, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be nice to hear Kloden talk about stage 17
I also thought Bert made a mistake. And I thought it was no big deal. Kloden dropped away too quickly to think he was gonna suck the Schlecks and Berts wheel all the way.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kloden is being locked down becuse of the Freiburg clinic report
I hope he speaks sooner than later, really I don’t think he even wanted to be 2nd for a 3rd time.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not entirely I don't think
Saw an interview with him in the last few days but it was probably filmed before ‘the incident’. Don’t remember where, sorry.
I actually like the fact he’s not talking. It gives him a dignity others lack.
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
even if he isn't speaking for unsavory reasons...
by Le Comte on Jul 28, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know
Just keeping the romance alive…
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AC later stated himself that it was a mistake
though I had not previously heard it was “against orders”. I thought the only time AC did not obey orders was on Arcolis
by Le Comte on Jul 28, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i saw bruyneel interviewed just minutes after that stage (Arcalis) and
he said he had told the riders to see how they felt, talk to each other, and decide what to do. He also suggested he wasn’t real happy that they were so close to yellow. So contador didn’t really talk to anyone it’s true, but he says he felt fantastic and didn’t want to pass up that opportunity (not many opps in this tour to gain time). Not really disobeying orders there, if you ask me.
by yeehoo on Jul 28, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I dont think it was intentional, but tactically from AC's point of view it didnt turn
out to bad.
by Cycho on Jul 27, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kloden was looking down when bert jumped
he was toast,he was done
by urban attacker on Jul 28, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
two mistakes
mistake number 1 was the attack: it was not needed.
mistake number two was not going “all in” once mistake number 1 was made: To quote Paul Sherwen from the Armstrong France domination tour 99-05: “A leader has to bang his fist down and say ‘I am in charge here’.”
Contador should have ridden with the Schlecks more, put time into Kloden, Armstrong, Wiggins, and the Broom Wagon—and had the panache to say the obvious: I want the biggest lead possible.
by R Mc on Jul 28, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
But as the swedish ES commentators have noted. It’s really sad to see a guy dominating the TdF looking like a scared defensive animal in all interviews. He was practically glancing over his shoulder constantly to see that he didn’t say or did anything wrong.
I am personally not a fan of AC but that saddens me. I don’t think he dared to do as you suggest and the reason was that he was a very lonely isolated man.
by Jens on Jul 28, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i got the same feeling
he looks back and then hesitates and then waits up. Not sure what to do, keeps looking back for kloden. It’s like he knows he’s gonna take a lot of shit. But once he’d gone, it would have been nice to see him just go for it and not let the ensuing name-calling get to him.
by yeehoo on Jul 28, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very interesting point of view, well put
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely agree with all of that
Would add that if mistake number one had not been made, i seriously doubt that the result of the stage would have been much different. It’s near certain the schlecks would have attacked, ac would have followed, and kloden would have been dropped.
I think AC has a lot of inner strength but don’t think he has much in the way of leadership strength – to state it clumsily. I think this has cost him already and will probably continue to do so. Hopefully with a better team environment he will be able to improve.
by yeehoo on Jul 28, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure if there are many lessons here unless Armstrong makes a comeback at 45
Astana in this tour is such a one-off.
One quibble with PH, who I mostly agree with here: The podium sweep wasn’t “sudden” and I don’t see that the goal compromised Bert winning as option A. He was going to win in week 3 unless his form collapsed or he crashed badly. The podium sweep goal was probably the only way to deal with having so much proven top-end talent, which JB never had in the Lance era. Everything had to break right for it to work. Turns out that a sort of random factor — the time gaps to the breakaway at Arcalis — completely blew up on Bruyneel. We don’t know what the team orders were but given that they let the breakaway go so far, seems that the idea was for the entire team to ride hard tempo together, withholding all attacks, so a breakaway survivor would take yellow. If Nocentini had gained another minute, JB could have easily just said, sure, let Bert attack for 9th place on the stage and pick up a few seconds, comfortable that AG2R would be defending yellow. But that didn’t happen.
Maybe the bottom line is this: if you’re a top contender, it’s not a good idea to have an another aging contender on your team. See Hinault, Vinokourov. They only have so many shots at glory left and they’re not going to be beta male until they’re well and truly cooked. But if you’re JB in this case, you can’t win.
by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 27, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That last paragraph makes sense to me.
Super team of individuals with not much chemistry.
by ursula on Jul 27, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, point's well taken
you are right, Astana is different than any of the Postal team’s, this year was far different for LA then any others. I still believe they are being hypocritical because neither carred about anything but winning the Tour those years.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much more cash
would Astana have raked in if they got the Number two spot and secured the three podium positions?
by Nazgul35 on Jul 28, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one thing i think we can all agree on
is that we’ll be happy to see these two on seperate teams next year. I think really unfortunate that it happened this year – lots of ugly contentiousness. I could have certainly lived without it.
by yeehoo on Jul 28, 2009 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we start a new website -- PolemiCafe?
It will get great traffic from July to February.
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
by OnTheRivet on Jul 27, 2009 10:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
next race for Astana Tour of Poland
team tactics any one
by urban attacker on Jul 28, 2009 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ah, there's this little race on saturday called classica san sebastian first
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 28, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just read on cyclingfans twitter that Bruyneel has agreed with the kazakhs
to allow Vino to race the Vuelta with Astana, oh my this is really happening.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 12:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And doesn't that just rot your socks!
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not as much as this
Popovych, Kloden, Rast, Zubeldia apparently have already agreed to join RadioShack next season.
along with Levi and obviously Lance, that’s 6 of 9 Tour riders going with lance, no shit Bert never talked to them, only Paulinho was on his side, and there was the token Kazakh.
All this cyclingfans is getting from L’Equipe, so it’s probably true. A lot of rumors, here’s his twitter page
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was pretty sure Klodi and Popo would go
Not so sure about the others. If all you want is to be a super domestique then maybe it’s the gig for you?
Looks like I won’t be doing much cheering for them though.
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zubeldia, Rast, and Kloden surprise me
I’m disappointed in Kloden, I thought he may try to be leader one more time, now he will be super domestique again, he keeps choosing that role.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think he likes conflict much
and I think with the Freiburg stuff, certain options aren’t really open to him. i’m sad for him though. i like watching him ride.
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do to
but I don’t get the sense he ever really enjoyed being leader, per se. He only became a leader in 2006 when it was thrust upon him b/c of Ullrich’s being excluded from the Tour, and after that he promptly followed Vino to Astana. If Kloden wanted to be a team leader, he only had to stay with T-Mob.
by Le Comte on Jul 28, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
He seems more comfortable with someone else calling the shots. i just wish he’d choose a leader i liked – when he has the choice.
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
that’s a hell of a TTT squad, just like this year.
The problem is, who are they going to send to attack Contador in the mountains? Even if it’s one against 3…that’s not the kind of team that can take turns accelerating away from you in the mountains. All diesel guys. Unless Armstrong finds his old form.
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
old guys rule!
[except athletically]
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 28, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but if they don’t get one of the Schlecks, this is officially team old. Reminds me of these basketball teams that bring aging all-stars together and get stomped. Well I guess there’s Brajkovic (some others too but I’m talking about potential GC guys). Whatever, I’m sure things will change over the next 11 months.
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Popo
so Bert can accelerate again leaving him in the dust….yes I’m still bitter about P-N.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
watching Bert get attacked at PN was brutal
didnt he have to ride the last 30-40km by himself? Not sure what Lance was referring to about his March talk with Bert
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was referring to that race – after Contador bonked, Armstrong tweeted that he was very talented but still had a lot to learn
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Im going to have to go watch it again on CTV, I dont recall AC
doing anything too crazy, except not eating. Astana didn’t bring that good a squad anyway.
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, I don’t think you missed anything, he just bonked because he forgot to eat apparently.
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and countered a bit too many moves
and was isolated very early by Popo and crew
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my recollection.
He could have bit a bit more cagey and gotten lower placed riders to chase. He did set Lulu up well though. ;- )
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
by ELVISGOAT on Jul 28, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah that was the general take,
it didn’t seem to me to be quite that clear. I felt it would have also been a risk to not respond to those attacks. In the end i think he could have handled the attacks had he also had something to eat. And even if he’d not responded to every attack the way he did, he might have bonked anyway. So in the end i saw his critical mistake being to not remember to eat. Not eating, in turn, might have gone further back – they were, i believe, seperated from the support cars.
by yeehoo on Jul 28, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah the double-edged barb
and whose responsibility is it to make sure that your gc leader takes care of himself?
by R Mc on Jul 28, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatever happened to not announcing signings/transfers until after october 1st?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 28, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is weird - it's as though the seasons's over for them
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for la it generally is/was after the tdf
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 28, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???
oh boy, has bert said if hes done for the year. he should do the vuelta and get a good cooldown ride for the offseason, especially since he didnt get much of a workout at this years tour. he he he
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i saw an ap article
that had some quotes by ac, then at the end it stated that he’d decided to not ride the vuelta. (but this was last not a quote)
by yeehoo on Jul 28, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy shit, how about this one
Andy Schleck to Radio Shack under negotiation. LA doesn’t want Frank, feels it will impede Andy’s progress. (L’Equipe)
Andy wtf?!!!!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
f-ing shit...
that would explain who would take over when LA is done
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My concern is he won't known when he's done
White line fever gets him every July
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I find the Frank comment very sad
Frank clearly loves Andy a ton and the scene after Andy won L-B-L or this year’s stage 17 was beautiful. Fuck off Lance. Sorry, he shouldn’t he involved in their relationship IMO
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a weird one, I don't see it happening
1. Andy’s respect for Fränk 2. Andy’s better than Armstrong right now, why would he go be a domestique?
Gotta hand it to that cyclingfans twitter though, I don’t know where he’s getting his info, none of that stuff is up on the équipe web site yet. Maybe he’s just up early, isn’t he in Paris? Or downloaded Tuesday’s edition already?
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got some inside souces I think
the newest one
L’Equipe says reason Schleck deal not yet concluded is due to RadioShack refusal to take Frank on board
So in that case, fuck off radio shack, and good for Andy. Nothing Frank has done has impeded Andy’s already successful career, they are great together, unbelievable.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
god they're already calling the team "RadioSchleck"
I’m going to puke now.
Why in the world would A. Schleck even consider this? I guess you always listen to money…wanting to bring their offer back to Saxo Bank to renegotiate?
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It might be suicide for what could be an amazing classics career
and that would be horrible, clearly Andy can compete in both the classics and Tour, but will Lance have any of that? Saxo is a perfect fit for him, don’t do it Andy!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah good point
also now he’s got Brajkovic going to RS
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh good lord now Merckx is in on it, what a soap opera
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance's good friend
So I think is Father Schleck. Think you’ll find he’s trying to set his boys up for life
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he is Lance's friend.
His son works for the charity and a long history together.
by fancan on Jul 28, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jeez...I cant believe its even an option. How does this transfer stuff work.
Arent the schleks under contract?
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly by money talks ...
… BS doesn’t get to walk, unless there is a clause in the contract that gives the rider an out.
And when you wonder why a team would sign a contract with those clauses … its because those clauses allowed them to sign the rider for less money.
by BruceMcF on Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's almost all of Astana's top domestique's
can’t imagine Bert staying, even with Vino and Kashesckin there.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hes got to go Garmin for TTT and domestiques now.
plus the bonus LA versus JV feud
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are until end of 2010
Maybe that’s the answer. They don’t start there til Lance has finished?
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No RadioShack is starting next year
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
What I’m suggesting is that the announcement might be that Andy starts there in 2011. Probably just dreaming
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope it start never!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you were Frank
would you want to go there with a welcome like that?
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
might just be the sponsor
which isn’t so personal.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris... on Jul 28, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frank didnt help his chances with that TT performance either
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he didn't
But he may not have realised it was a job interview
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So am I confused? Or is everyone else confused?
It seemed to me that the quote implied LA didn’t want Frank to leave Andy because he wants Andy to keep improving and taking Frank away would prevent that.
Yet everyone seems to be replying with the idea that Amstrong doesn’t want Frank becuase he thinks keeping Frank with Andy will prevent said improving.
…. * confused *
by whistlingmountain on Jul 28, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind
I was confused, caught up on comments now!
by whistlingmountain on Jul 28, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fingers crossed
Twitter is a scourge
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing it's the paper edition
But also, in the past I have noticed some rather “liberal” interpretations of l’équipe reporting from cyclingfans. Worth keeping in mind.
by gavia on Jul 28, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bet Saxo are thrilled too
They’ll be thinking about changing deodorants. So do they stay with just Frank or take Cadel and give him some tough love Jens! and Stuet style?
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How would Contador look in a Saxobank jersey?
Straight-up swap, Alberto for Andy?
Mark
by mpw5 on Jul 28, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'd need a sense of humour
Great rider, but does he know how to laugh?
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no apology needed
that was pretty much my reaction when I saw that, too…
by Le Comte on Jul 28, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RadioShack may as well sign the chicken while they are at it
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm envious that your comments are much cleverer than mine
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of which...
The Dane finished second to Aleksejs Saramotins (Team Designa Køkken) at the Designa Grand Prix in Kjellerup, Denmark
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jul 28, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey isnt Sella gonna be available here pretty soon
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 1:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's already signed with some 3rd level Italian team, ame with Ricco
but that doesn’t mean they will stop the all-mighty RADIOSHACK TRAIN!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh chapeau
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 28, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
I needed to make up for the expletive as headline
by Seahorse on Jul 28, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what are you talking about, expletives as headlines are the best
by plinytheelder on Jul 28, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever "official" nickname PdC comes up with for Team Radio Shack
It’s gonna be folowed by (Army’s Army) silently in my mind.
by fancan on Jul 28, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So projected lineup
LA, POPO, Levi, Klodi, Zubeldia, Horner(maybe), Andy(Maybe), Brajkovic, and Rast. Wow
by Cycho on Jul 28, 2009 1:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So Bert and LA on same team drama will now be Andy vs. LA????
hell no! Andy, hit yourself on the head with that livestrong teakettle already!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)