It's On! It's On!
Why couldn't we have gotten this a week ago?
"My relationship with Lance is non-existent. Even if he is a great champion, I have never had admiration for him and I never will," the Spaniard told a news conference in Madrid.
It's funny, teammates have a harder time going at each other than more obvious rivals. Here's Thor all making nice with Cavendish:
"We talk a lot when we’re riding but we had a big battle during the Tour de France – especially after he was relegated, that was a hard time – but we’ve talked about it and have forgotten it. The last few days we had a good ride and good race for this important jersey."
Now that's more like it. Funny, Thor seems like a pretty good guy overall, and rides like someone who respects the competition. But he has this tendency to give lectures after crossing the line. Adrenaline indeed!
UPDATE!!! Like, ZOMG!
For some time it appeared the polemica might be overstated, thanks to a somewhat selective translation of the Spanish by VN to come up with the above snark. But if the gloves weren't off before, they are now. Courtesy of @lancearmstrong:
hey pistolero, there is no “i” in “team”. what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated.
Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win.
RT @axelmerckx: A champion is also measured on how much he respect his teammates and opponents. You can win a race on your own not a grand tourPistolero! Oh snap! Mrrrowww!
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That translation is wrong.
Contador clearly distinguishes Armstrong the person from Armstrong the rider. See Greylock grinder’s translation in the other thread, can’t remember which one.
can't find Greylock's, so here's mine:
I have no relationship with Armstrong, but he’s a great rider who did a great Tour. On a personal level I’ve never had a lot of admiration for him, nor will I.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't realize that link was to VeloNews, what are they thinking
what a total fuckup
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, in the interest of fairness, should someone let VN know how badly they botched it?
"Think globally, bike locally."
That's probably a mutual feeling between the two
man am I happy they are no longer on the same team.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Wow. Seriously shit job there, Velonews.
Even my half-assed spanish could have gotten then one right.
You really sure it's a mistake?
I think they did that on purpose to put Contador in an even more negative light, they wouldn’t dare post that Annecy hotel thing either, same goes for CN.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Phil....never rely on CN or VN for translations
….always…always…always go to the European source.
I have long stopped using CN or VN for my primary cycling news.
Yes I realize CN and Vn have really lowered in quality
but I’m still not convinced that selection of the qoute wasn’t on purpose.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
They are a bit too British centered(nothing wrong with that from a British site)
for me to go for most news, really i get most news from here, because people are posting news from sources all over the globe.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
It's true.
Their translations (though I’ve noticed this mostly with CN) are just transparently awful. I can’t imagine whoever’s doing them passing intermediate whatever language it is (I’m only in a position to check the ones from French).
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
Intermediate? Intro!
“otra cosa es a nivel personal” … aint no fancy verb tenses to confuse anything there, just looking up the phrases “otra cosa” and “nivel personal” in a phrase book’ll get the basic sense.
I was um, trying to be generous.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
Ah, so the 'transparently awful' ...
… which was also quite kind to the quality of the translation … that was understatement as well.
Now it makes more sense.
John Wilcockson's
comments before the Tour were less than complementary regarding Alberto.
I had half thought about reading his Lance bio, but was completely put off by his lack of objectivity in the VN piece. Yes, I did read Chris’s excellent review, but it’s maybe something I’ll revisit later in the year. For now, I’ve got Lance burn out.
Yes, it does seem that both CN and VN (of course, along with VS) always try spin things in the “right” direction for Team Lance.
On another note, those publications have also done a wonderful job of painting Greg Lemond as a complete crackpot through the years. Again, another example of always making sure that Trek/Armstrong/JB are presented in the best possible way, and detractors are villified.
by The Team Chef on Jul 27, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is...
…that I sort of think that Lemond may be doing quite a bit to contribute to the crackpot argument all by himself. I don’t doubt that the pubs you mention are thrilled to seize on that, but I’m fairly convinced that behind the apparent reasonableness of Lemond’s basic point about performance thresholds there is an enormous problem about how you would ever put it into practice or even establish a workable criterion. That, by itself, doesn’t make him a crackpot, but his insistence that he has it all figured out and his willingness to push some extremely dodgy analysis based on questionable data in major media outlets doesn’t help matters.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
I do understand that Greg has not done himself any favors,
but I’ve spent a couple of hours with him, and he came accross a genuine fan of the sport and quite intelligent. He’s the kind of guy you could just shoot the shit with for hours on end; a very likeable person and a student of the sport. He did not even come close to the way he is always portrayed in CN and VN. Those folks will take a quote, twist it completely out of context, and the rest of the world will take it as gospel, just like they are doing with this Contodor quote. It’s just shady journalism.
by The Team Chef on Jul 27, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah CN's story on the LeMond presentation at that recent "sport and society" conference
was so mangled that I posted a fanpost with the sole aim of rectifying all the mistakes in their article. If I were LeMond and had seen their article, I’d have been fuming.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That I don't doubt.
One thing I’ve really been disturbed by since I started to pay attention to the sport is just how truly horrible the standards of most English language cycling journalism are. Not only do they fuck up translations, quotations, and sources constantly, but they seem to have no clue as to the distinction between reporting and editorializing, and as you say no compunction about twisting things around to fit whatever narrative they like. If there’s a j-school grad among the entire lot of them I’d be shocked, because I’d wonder how in the hell he or she graduated having learned nothing at all.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
Bicycling Magazine's word of the day one day was "Peddle".
I almost fell out of my chair.
"Think globally, bike locally."
accidental candor
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Wondering....
“He did not even come close to the way he is always portrayed in CN and VN. Those folks will take a quote, twist it completely out of context, and the rest of the world will take it as gospel, just like they are doing with this Contodor quote. It’s just shady journalism.”
Why isn’t this beautiful bit of insight used across the board when reading about all riders?
I even took a few liberties with the above translation, here’s the Spanish:
Mi relación con Lance Armstrong es nula, pero es un grandísimo corredor y ha hecho un gran Tour, otra cosa es a nivel personal donde nunca le he tenido una gran admiración, ni se la tendré.
So you can see he goes out of his way to separate the personal from the professional, “otra cosa es a nivel personal,” “it’s different on a personal level” or “the personal aspect is something else/something different.”
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
LA is an unabashed jerk
he feeds off conflict, either real or imagined, and is almost certainly deeply distraught over this loss. Based on everything I’ve read about him he fears losing more than anything else in life so this has got to sting.
My hope here is that Contador will keep that resentment he feels for Lance as a motivational tool all year round. One loss is damaging enough to Armstrong’s psyche but two would be devastating. No way Lance picks himeself off the mat next year if Contador kicks his butt again.
Resentment
I would just venture a guess that once they go to different teams, the feelings revert to normal rivalries, but who knows what’s gone down off camera?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you read this yet?
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/7/26/963370/changed-impressions-or-im-rooting#18737710
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
not yet
still catching up. I fell asleep halfway through the Ventoux stage last night, though I blame my kids, the local transportation network, and the two hours of hills I had just done.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
All I can say what that was the most akward podium celebration I've ever seen at the end of the Tour
Even in 1986 Hinault was visibly smiling and enjoying himself, chatting away with all the politicians at the ceremony while Greg took the final yellow jersey. Sunday’s “celebration” seemed anything but, two guys who are either tremendous actors or who just genuinely despise each other. I’m voting for the latter.
Here is the podium presentation video -
Versus did not show the beginning of this where Lance would not even look at Bert when he barely shook his hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVBShaSmK4s&NR=1
Also, apparently, someone screwed up big time, the Danish national anthem was played instead of the Spanish National Anthem for Bert. I am sure Hinault has thrown that person of sound stage by now.
Some perspective
Lance must really hate Andy Schleck too, ‘cause he shook Andy’s hand just the same way as he shook Alberto’s hand….and, and, and, wait, listen, and Andy must really hate Alberto Contador because Andy barely smiled while he was on the podium! And did you see Alberto look over at Lance and smile and scratch the back of his head with his middle finger? It’s like he said “fuck you Lance” right there on the podium!
Sorry, this is all getting to be a little bit silly. People will read into things what they want. Yeah it was tense, but I don’t believe it was tense because Alberto bested Lance, and because Lance is a total dickwad and Alberto is a saint. These types of rivalries are rarely one sided.
It's silly but it just shows the tension(which we all know is there)
yet it is clear in that video that LA was much more friendly with Schleck then with Contador. He gave him the two handed shake and had a few words, while to AC he just gave him a little one handed walk by shake. I agree it’s silly and pointless now, but it just shows they don’t have much love for each other. This was even mentioned in a story on the Denver Post today.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
It is twosided though
Lance has no love and AC is not interested in surrendering the stage to someone he is pissed at.
Yes it goes both ways
but you can’t say that the tension wasn’t there on the podium.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Exactly, completely different circumtstances
That photo was taken only a few minutes after Fignon suddenly went from being the winner of the maillot jaune to losing le Tour by eight seconds.
and he literally collapsed on the road
past the finish line.
And he had a massive boil on his rear.
And his time trial was the 2nd fastest in tour history . . . behind Lemond’s,
I just noticed LeMond's "hat head" in that photo
Remember that LeMond wore an aero helmet in the time trial that day to be more aerodynamic, while Fignon chose to not wear a helmet. A physicist calculated that Fignon’s aerodynamic dis-advantage from choosing to go helmetless cost him 16 seconds, or twice the margin by which he lost the Tour.
Here is a YouTube video of that time trial.
If that TT was such an exciting one
why have the organizers not thought about bringing it back?!
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Well no Frenchman will be in contention to win the Tour
for at least another 20 years, so that shouldn’t be a reason.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I think you mean: Feillu wins for the next 20 years!
older one gets green, younger gets other 3 ;)
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
To an American
for God’s sake.
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
srsly
makes me want to cry, almost.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Awww, sad puppy.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
Aye
there is tension both ways.
I think the best comparison is to look at how JB and LA treated Floyd Landis in 2005, Lance’s last win and the year before Landis finished in Yellow.
When Landis rode well on the Alpe ITT, Johan allegedly dumped his next blood cell down the toilet. When Lance rode hard for himself instead of saving his energy to support the team’s leader, Johan threw the leader and winner under the bus.
Under the rules that Lance used to treat his teammates, Lance’s behavior should be unacceptable for any team leader. It’s not about the bike, but it’s not about winning and it’s not about the team. It’s just all about Lance and his cult of personality.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
i think you're lumping 2004 and 2005 together...
2005 landis rode for phonak
2004 landis rode for postal, and that’s the year that landis seemed rather fresh on an alpine stage IIRC.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
oops
You are, of course, correct.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 7:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
oops
You are, of course, correct.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
by Koppenberg on Jul 27, 2009 7:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am not anti-Lance
by any means, but I like to see good sportsmanship. I did not see it there in that video.
Also, the fact that Lance did not show up at the team celebration say a lot as well
actually i don't think it does (re no show at party)
if i remember some of the coverage from his last wins, he didn’t really spent time at his own parties — bigger celebs to smooze.
Bah... Garmin.
He was snoozing with Matthew Mconanut or whatever his name is
I think Bert(or any sane person) doesn’t wants to hang out with him, so it was probably a good thing he didn’t party with the others.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Do you mean "schmoozing with"?
“Snoozing with” would be very different. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
sorry but there was a huge difference in the handshakes
May be a bit silly to make anything of it, but there was a large difference. And if all there were to the story was the podium, we’d probably not be talking about it. It’s all the rest as backround that makes these little things look large.
er
they might have crossed paths in the team bus already.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yo, Bert
Ice T called, he wants his hat back.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Lance
sounds pretty un-pleased. I’m in catchup mode, but his chat with his buddy Frankie made it sound like things were pretty bad behind the scenes. “We’re just trying to keep attitudes positive” or something. Is that usually a problem when you have a stranglehold on yellow?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions
"It's On! It's On!"
Well, if AC thinks that feeling as though he was number 2 on Astana is bad, wait until next year, when he really is number 2 on Astana. Behind Vino, no less.
Maybe it won’t matter much anyway; who really thinks that Astana MkIII (featuring Vino!) is going to get invited to Le Tour?
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 3:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I really think AC will be at Astana next year
see:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kazakh-coup-to-oust-armstrong-and-bruyneel-from-team-astana
“Alberto Contador would continue as the captain of the new Astana team. “We will meet with Alberto Contador to offer him a contract extension,” said Nikolaï Proskurin, the vice-president of the Kazakh cycling federation. “He will be our sole leader for years to come. He will be able to pick out the riders he wants to ride with him. In our mind, the team will be composed of Spanish and Kazakh riders, including Alexandre Vinokourov.” "
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 4:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So you get he will stay with Astana from that article
but yet then you say Vino will be team leader for sure even though in that qoute it is more than clear that Bert will be the leader, the only one. I think Vino is realistic about what roles he will play, he’s even said he will be domestique and that he knows Bert is better than him.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
The article says
We will meet with Alberto Contador to offer him a contract extension,"
So the question is will he accept or not?
Contador isn't going to be stuck anywhere.
All the existence of a rider contract means is that it’s going to be more expensive if you want to do something that breaks it. In AC’s case, that’s just not a problem.
"It's On! It's On!"
What I get from this article is that someone by the name of Nicolai Proskurin claims that Astana will be offering Albert a contract extension. Now, Nicolai could just be a spokes-droid, and a quote in a news article isn’t sworn testimony or anything, but the term ‘extension’ implies to me that Astana thinks they have a standing contract with Albert. If Albert’s contract was with Johan, would Astana be throwing out the baby with the bathwater?
In so far as Vino is concerned, Alexandre himself says:
" “I don’t see myself riding for another team,” the winner of the 2006 Vuelta a Espana added. “I have no guarantee yet because I expect to negotiate with Bruyneel in the coming days. But it’s not possible that he disagrees. If Johan doesn’t want me, it will be up to him to leave the team.” "
So Vino will absolutely be the figurehead of Astana. Does this sound familiar to you? Obviously, Albert is the stongest bike rider, but who gets the publicity? Who has domestiques towing him up hills? Who will be shooting for the highest finishing position (other than first) for the sake of keeping sponsors happy?
Why do you think Albert disliked Lance so much?
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 5:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well after reading through some other comments
I have come to the conclusion it will either be Vino or Bert, not both. And Astana will be Vino, Bert will be on another team.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
"It's On! It's On!"
Astana can make it completely impossible for anybody to buy Albert’s contract out, just by asking for way too much money.
If I were whoever was in charge of the team post-Bruyneel, I would keep Bert around, even if Bert wasn’t happy with the arrangement. I would count on his impetuous anger driving him to win everything in sight next year.
Well, everything they are allowed to race in, that is.
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But JB owns the contracts
from what I can tell, Astana is defenseless when it comes to making sure Bert stays, if JB leaves. It is all very confusing though.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
The Contracts
I think the thing that we can agree on here is that the arrangements between Johan’s company and the Kazakh sponsors, cycling federation, etc., are all clear as mud.
Maybe we won’t know for sure until the off-season.
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 5:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
albert? his name is albertO !!!!
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Oh absolutely
Conta is looking forward to another Tour of “sure we like you but we looooove the other guy” -teammates.
Well no, I don’t think so.
Question: what are his options?
since he apparently has one year left on his contract. How does he go to, say, Garmin or CdE without getting an agreement from whoever has the contract?
btw, anyone know whether the contract is with Astana or with JB? I’ve seen different people say different things, but someone must know.
As the Kasakh sponsors split with JB's Olympus Sarl that hold the ridercontracts
those contracts will apparently be annulled.
Anulled?
That angle doesn’t make much sense to me; if you were a rider (and not just a first year pro, but an established vet in the peloton, if not an actual star) would you sign a contract that could just vanish in the middle of the season?
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 7:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
More likely, conditions which give the rider the option ...
… to get out of the contract. EG, all the BS promises you made when trying to convince the rider to sign, it kind of gives the game away if you refuse to include the promises in the contract.
Earlier in the week, Belgian commentators
said that Contador’s contract has a “void if significant team structure/managerial changes happen.” So with Vino taking over from Bruyneel, I take that as significant change and Contador may be free to go anywhere.
Well with Vino coming in
the Kasakh can claim that there will be no major change : “we can assure you the team will still be led by a crazed egomaniac”
9 tours, dude, 9 tours
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Void provision
So if AC’s contract has a poison pill in it; presumably, it would be enacted if Johan was fired.
I have a hard time thinking that Astana will:
1) Fire Johan
2) Turn Albert into a free agent
just so that they can put Vino on the start line of the Tour of Poland on August 2nd.
But if that’s what they are thinking, we will find out soon enough!
MBT
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 7:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hmm
Bruyneel already said he was gone from Astana.
Bruyneel gone
Right – the Kazakh-component of Astana seems to want Bruyneel gone; Johan has confirmed this himself.
My point is: get rid of Johan, which they would like to do, but lose Albert in the process. It’s like a ‘Albert for Vino’ trade. Would you do that?
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 8:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure
I think in this instance it’s rather clear. Vino was instrumental in forming the team inb the first place. He wants his team back aqnd he has the political connections with the money guys back home to make it happen. The money guys want to promote their homeland and Kazakh riders. Thus Vino is the #1 guy. Kash Is King is probably #2.
Bert is Spanish. He’s great but let’s not get away from the #1 priority here.
The key word
is “thinking” — which is a generous description for anything synonymous with “building a team around Vino”.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting Team
Especially if there are other contracts with the same poison pill in them.
by ManBicycleThing on Jul 27, 2009 8:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That quote
is the funniest thing I have read in a while. How I’d roll if I had a team:
“We will meet with Alberto Contador and offer him the captaincy of our team for years to come. I will get my pro license and ride as one of his primary support guys, along with Emma Johanssen. The Swedish womens’ swim team will be trained in physical therapy and run our massages. The team will be composed of Spanish, American, Japanese and Cambodian riders.”
I mean, you can say stuff. Doesn’t mean there’s a grain of truth or sense to it…
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Swedish womens swim team
just made 15 yo Sarah Sjöström World Champ and world recordholder in Rome so they will be expensive. The rest of it I buy.
Oh
Hm, maybe the alumni. No kids…
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on now... Bert is obviously jealous...
… he coveted the lowest spot on the podium… he’s been trying to get there in each of the grand tours and he keeps overshooting.
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
keyboard-cleaning towel, hehe, so many possibilities
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it made by Livestrong?
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
yeah it's modeled after Lances crying towel
Boo Hoo oh Boo hoo hooo.
Seriously though have you heard anything as childish as his bird droppings since grade school?
by Christopher See on Jul 27, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You know the worst thing about VN's translation fuck-up?
So so many LA fans/small-minded people or people who only use them & won’t come here or go to the original source, will read it, take it as gospel and “proof” of what a “disrespectful idiot” AC is. It’s already started on twitter, several morons i follow just to see what morons think of cycling, have been talking about how he’s showing true colours. I asked one whether he’d read the Spanish version and he replied “Don’t need to, VN have translated it.”
I’m banging my head gainst a wall right this moment in reply to that.
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
What's more disgusting...
is that VN seem’s to have deliberately accidentally manipulated edited the story, which by the way came from Agence France Press. Would AFP make this obvious mistake?
Even the New York Times has a more accurate translation:
“My relationship with Lance is zero,” Contador said at a news conference, one day after winning his second Tour. “He is a great rider and has completed a great race but it is another thing on a personal level, where I have never had great admiration for him and I never will.”
That is true, I follow them on twitter for the same reasons i follow moron fans...
I like to read all sides of stuff and the way they post their stories is so anti-Contador. It’s as though LA actually pays them to write these headlines
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
well at least NYT’s translation is right
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I feel like writing them a thank you for not being like the other idiots e-mail!
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Well, the Times has professional standards...
…and competent translators.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
Now, now.
Sometimes we all disagree with aspects of their editorial policy, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have one (a la CN, VN, and apparently CNN…there’s a shock.)
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
omigod
don’t get me started. google “walter cronkite” and “retraction”
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris? somebody? Help! Helsey just called me a small-minded moron?
I thought this wasn’t allowed. I demand justice be done.
there there
you’re a big minded, non moron. All set now? :)
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
how about a huggie?
I’ve got lots of those around.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris, now make sure it's afresh one
no party poopies here at the post tour tea party.
by Christopher See on Jul 27, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I did not call YOU one, i named no-one specifically...
I just meant anyone who isn’t aware that the translation has been, how to put it….manipulated, will take this totally the wrong way. Wasn’t trying to call anyone names, promise. I believe in opinions, but VN are supposed to stay neutral and report things properly, not a translation that isn’t correct.
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Smartasses, all of you.
In my book that’s a compliment, always better to be a smartass than a dumbass.
guilty as charged
ps did I mention you are a moron?
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
hey I just notice your new picture thingy, very nice...
what team is that, exactly?
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah you must mean these guys
![]()
http://www.teamblm.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1&lang=en
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
oh, you think waiving your arms
around all googly-eyed is going to help?
Go ask your Uncle Grover what that’ll get you.
Wow, are you like 12?
Your response to getting called out on the basis of what you said is the tried and true mock whining ‘pardoy’ someplace else just far enough from the original circumstance to deny that you meant anything even though it’s transparently obvious you did. Honesly, I thought this shit went out of fashion with third grade.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
Ed K do you have anything interesting or productive to say regarding this post as it seems to me you are just acting like a bit of an idiot here. Do you actually have an interest in cycling or do you just come onto forums like this because you dont have any real people to talk to
http://lagazzettadellobici.blogspot.com/
OK OK
let’s drop this. Ed, I think this wasn’t meant as seriously as you may have thought. That’s the problem with communicating by type-writer. Move on guys…
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok that's it, Chris....
I think Ed just called me a 12 year old ghost in the 3rd grade, or something like that. Doesn’t that also mean he’s calling me stupid or slow, since that’s pretty old for the 3rd grade?
Can somebody tell me what a mock whining parody is? I think I’m in over my head here.
Fair statement by AC...
When accurately translated. Blunt but accurate. “Great rider, but…” Sort of reminds me of… LA’s statements about Alberto.
If only the polemica could end now. Fat chance.
It's on CNN too
On the front page of their website. Very similar translation to VN.
now that fucking takes the cake.
makes every stupid cliché about the stupidity of the American media seem true.
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
CN plays to the American audience a lot more than the Australian
I’d say they are an American publication located in Australia, but that article from noah is from cNN
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
and actually CN is run out of the Uk now.
Future Publications, of Procycling fame, controls it.
by Christopher See on Jul 27, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
CNN is in bed with Lance
seeing Lance writes stories for them often.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
CNN
is like every big American media outlet with a casual interest in cycling. Complete crap. At least ESPN gets credit for paying Bonnie Ford to write something sensible.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
My first-ever teammate works there, I like to think he’s talking sense into people on the whole what-the-hell-is-cycling thing.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously the roads, I mean the roads go without saying.
Brought peace?
Oh peace…..shut up!
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
Are there more details on the Annecy start incident?
It just seems so unbelievable. The hotel I think was about 10 kms from the start … it would have been something if AC had to cycle himself there
sometimes life is a false flat
Well, at least he wouldn't have had to warm up, eh?
Though it is pretty incredible. I’d like to get more details/corroboration myself…
SRSLY
I do that all the time. Sure, it’s annoying afterwards, but if I get to the line with my trainer, I will always screw around and get no warmup.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
doubt that he had his bike with him
in his hotel room or locked up to the lampost outside the hotel, though
d'oh!
Still, he could get a lift from the first Spaniard to drive by. Like, the CdE bus.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we in Rotterdam yet?
What a great tour TdF 2010 will be.
Think of all the attacks (on the road of course) that are being gestated right now.
Can’t wait ;-)
Apparently the organizers already know what the route will be like next year
and will finalize it in September…any rumors yet people?
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Yes but that's been known for a while
I’m more curious about the mountains next year, which climbs will they do and how hard will those stages be. I guess I could wait until October but….no.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
I imagine rumors will be flying within the next two weeks
so we will see.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
Second stage
one of our campmates this weekend is from Rotterdam, she says day 2 runs along the coast, across lots of bridges and whatnot, down to De Panne maybe?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
is this a good idea?
I mean, are we sure these islands will be there next summer?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, it could turn out to be the swim leg for a new Tour format
Ultra-Triathlons, do these things exist? Probably yes; if I was able to think of the concept other nutters were too and went and did it.
nodding head
niiiiiice!
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
UltraMan in Hawaii
Too lazy to go look it up, but it’s a 3-day event and is something like:
Day 1: 10k swim, 90 mile bike
Day 2: 170 mile bike
Day 3: Double marathon — 52.4 miles
I think the dominace of Cavendish and AC and the re emergence of Lance again next year is and will cause further review. Like any major event such as the Olmpyics I think they have at least a 5 year plan, however I’m sure that it will be reviewed now to make sure that someone else can have a remote chance of winning the tour. Alp de huiz for sure my guess and I think we will see FLAT time trial of about 50 KM, the climb was too tough in this years TT for the vast majority of riders so near to the end.
I don't think they can have 5 year plans, maybe outlines
but it all comes down to what cities will pay money to get stages, so to plan 5 years ahead is probably impossible.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
On the road, so they're carrying frame pumps next year?
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
I suppose my bias is showing
but I didn’t have a problem with the quote even mis-translated. Lance has always been about performance and winning. Personality didn’t matter, as long as he won. He certainly has been exponentially less gracious in defeat than any of the riders he has beaten, with the possible exception of Pantani, who was cut from the same cloth.
On the other hand, I don’t see that as bad for Lance. I just wish he and his handlers weren’t treating 3rd place as a victory. Winning counts. Getting beat means something. “Happy to be on the podium” is such a violent departure from Lance’s past personality that it feels like a betrayal.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
ESPN
Has a post race VIdeo interview with Lance .
Watching the video
It was not as bad as it reads.
Link.
OF course he says what we all know but pretty calmly.
Tranquilo.
Nothing New AC and LA
Those that follow golf know that Tiger and Phil have no relationship either, when you have two Alpha males dueling for the top prize it’s only natural. When AC went off the reservation to join team Saxo Bank twice did AC expect any good job well done for dissing his teammates back at the hotel?
Look at AS how many minutes did he lose by being the devoted and faithful teamate to brother Andy
The problem with your assertion
is that Contador didn’t work with the Schleck-tet and wasted time looking around for Kloden.
And, as an aside . . . what happened to all of the rumors of Contador being aided by CdE? Except for Lulu, was that team in the race?
On Ventoux, Gutierrez did a little pace-making and gave him a bidon...
And on stgae 17 Uran tried to help as much as he could, but couldn’t stick with the pace…
Plus Lulu was pretty much near him 90% of the time
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
When was the second time?
“When AC went off the reservation to join team Saxo Bank twice . . "
Stage 17 I figure is one reference. We can argue about whether he was attacking them or not btu no matter.
What was the second time you are referencing?
The stage numbers are a bit of a blur, but the first time was when AC took off against directives with Lance and Kloden at the front. When AC attacked he left Kloden and Lance back with the others as Andy took off up the hill and was able to put time on both of his teammates. The second time I think you have the right stage, dropping Kloden before the summit and leaving Lance controlling Wiggens put probably a minute into Lance and Kloden. AC was merrily left to charge down the hill with the Schleck brothers as Lance and Kloden chased from behind.
Lance and Kloden at the front?
I never saw that.
Verbier?
Wha? When Contador put the whole field away? you mean Bruyneel said THAT was against team orders also?
I do not think so. After Verbier, Bruyneel said the issue of “team leadership” was decided.
Right. I agree with ya
That’s the stage bikegang is pointing to though. Perhaps he’s thinking of Arcalis instead and got things mixed up.
There are no teams in Golf
there are in cycling, and to many people’s amazement, they play a huge role in the sport. Here we have two teammates dueling, it’s more of a Shaq vs. Kobe while both still on the lakers thing(although I’m getting sick of nba references)
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
It's all Contador's fault
According to Ligget
AC: He’s (AC) not a team player, etc, etc. Astonishing interview.
I never had to listen to Ligget during the tour (thankfully)
sometimes life is a false flat
Phil with the whole French media thing is being quite a hypocrite
because hasn’t he been running a sort of “hate campaign” against Bert this year? Plus, cyclingfans posted a bunch of quotes on his twitter which praised Lance a lot, and they came from(gasp) L’Equipe.
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
My question:
is it Phil, or is he simply following orders from Versus? It seems pretty clear to me that Versus, as a whole, has a mancrush on Lance and anything that gets in his way has to be belittled or put down. It’s kinda like high school
how does Phil come across on other channels?/other nations?
as I understand it, Phil and Paul do English commentary all at the same time for a number of English channels in different countries (ie. SBS in Australia, ?ITV in UK), where the other channels do their own additional interviews/fill-ins that would replace Craig and Bob, Frankie and Robbie for instance. Do these other channels get commentary from Phil and Paul pre/post-race (like the pre-race show on Versus)? and if so, what are they like re: Lance then? Or perhaps these other channels only get the play-by-play commentary that would be exactly the same as we see via Versus…
(I’ve often wondered how they coordinate – I read once that at times when we only hear Phil for a while on Versus, for instance, it likely means that Paul is doing something specifically for one of the other channels or vice versa… maybe that accounts for the repetition/confusion we sometimes get, ie. Paul doesn’t realize that Phil just said the same thing because Paul was actually talking to someone else at the time … nah, couldn’t possibly explain all of it).
yeah interesting that you asked this, I watched entirely on line but noticed that sometimes when Paul was talking you could hear Phil (at least it sounded like Phil) in the background, as though he was going back and forth from one commentating gig to another…then he would come back and either repeat something Paul had just said or contradict him ;)
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
yep . ..
Paul does the comments through commercials and whilst Phil is off doing other stuff—and then Phil comes back in.
Phil does bumpers, promos, etc., for Versus
and joint commentary for the terrestrial broadcast with Paul. When Phil is doing the promos, bumpers, etc., or commercials are broadcast, Paul was doing the webcast.
I am just about certain they’re not doing any live commentary for anyone else.
Used to do for Oz ...
… and it was as described above for the webcast … Phil’s commentary would go away but you would hear a faint echo of his voice saying something. I guess SBS got enough dosh to cover the whole stages, so they get their own commentary until the VS coverage starts. After my decade in Oz was up I got back to the US to find, lo and behold, there was Phil Ligget extolling the glories of Indy Car racing or bull riding.
ITV, my Dad watched their highlights
Yet asked me about so many things because all he heard about was LA and that they kept misinterpretting things and being anti-AC. They barely mentioned the white jersey for the entire first week, my Dad kept having to ask me who had it!
During the race we get what they’re saying on Vs too, the one day i was forced to use them for a while i nearly threw my remote at the TV after they rambled about LA for ages, then said the Schlecks looked tired when they looked great and then called Uran Sanchez. Gah!
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
There's not much difference on SBS
although, Matt Keenan, who calls the race until P and P cut in is intelligent and balanced. The sycophancy begins with the two Ps, although in my opinion Phil is worse than Paul.
Unfortunately, Mike Tomalaris, the SBS host also feeds the Lance frenzy. A couple of not so well known cyclists however do talk sense. After the Contador/Klodi debacle, Dave Mackenzie robustly defended Contador and criticised Bruyneel which I found reassuring.
There’s a groundswell of support in OZ for Matt Keenan taking over the commentating gig. in my dreams Jens! is his co-host. I want him on air after he retires.
+1
yes. P&P called Bert stupid twice – that I heard – in the prerace interviews.
and that’s when I muted the tv.
all the other guests however, do have their senses. And I’ve already sent my rant to SBS asked them to get Keenan do it next year.
Part government funded, part advertiser ...
… they prolly can’t claim its part of their charter to splash out more money for “better commentary” … but if they could convince an advertiser that better commentary would translate into more viewers, maybe.
judging by the way some of the comments go on their website.
I’d say it’s not looking that good…
:-(((
Funnily enough, for all the frustrations i share
with you on this subject, I don’t think they’re completely clueless. i bet only Switzerland and Australia had Tony as the face/body of their TDF ad.
alright
for the sake of argument, let me copy some of the comments over. not that I want to do it!
I laugh sometimes at the Lance haters using false arguements and inferences to justify their hate. They suggest Lance was not being a good teammate yet all evidence points to him putting his own aspirations aside in the Alps for the good of the team. They insist he’s doping yet he never failed a test. Is there anyone on this planet who has been tested more than Lance? They call him an arrogant “you know what” yet if you watched the procession into Paris, most of the riders in the peleton, the people who know him better than us, came and had a jovial chat with Lance. Besides, it takes an element of arrogance to be a leader in endeavour in life. I’ll bet there are several members of the peleton anxious to join Lance’s new team.
Is this meant to go with the SBS dribble
we were having? And I don’t understand the 28 agree, 6 disagree.
Am I being thick?
well, he has failed a test
during the 99 tour . . . but an rx was cooked up to cover it.
And, those 99 samples . . .
R Mc I agree with you in spirit
but whatever conclusions can be drawn from the cortisone test in 99, it must be tempered with the fact that the concentration of the banned substance in the test was below the legal threshold.
This is where it gets all nit-picky. Yes, the test revealed the presence of synthetic cortisone. Yes, Lance swore to high heaven that he had not taken any treatment since his cancer, only to appear w/ a post-dated TUE.
However, it must always be remembered that the concentration in Lance urine was below the legal threshold to be considered a positive result.
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/jul99/jul22.shtml
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
My view (not that you asked for it)
is that when we’re talking about someone’s livelihood on the line, or the ideal by which we’d like to catch doping positives, I’m well onboard with strict adherence to standards.
But in this situation, where we step back and give the ‘well, in my considered’ opinion? Lance was a doper. Through and through. Legal has fuck-all to do with it.
(for whatever it’s worth, I don’t condemn him for that.* Look at everyone else then. Was just an even playing field, no?
*I do condemn him for the self-serving bullshit since then, though.)
Well stated and I concur
although I have to admit the self-serving bullshit is occasionally entertaing.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
Definitely, its all down to Contador that ...
… Team Astana lost the TTT, the team championship, had noone else on the …
… oh, wait.
Huh, that AC can’t be about Alberto Contador … is there another AC in the race?
Precisely ... don't recall which stage it was, but the ...
… stage when Lance attacked when AC was in trouble, and helped Andy Schleck put minutes into AC, claim the yellow jersey and …
… oh, wait, that was the Verbier-Martigny stage, in Andy’s dreams. Looking back, the judges must have ruled that only actual times on the actual course were to be included.
yes, it just gets worse and worse
i was holding onto a sliver of respect for Phil but it’s gone now. difference between riding for yourself and using up a team entirely out of self-interest please? one is more difficult i would think. could those two possibly get their noses any further up Armstrong’s backside aperture? oh wait, an aperture lets in light – guess i’ll have to think of another way to get around the censors… :)
"The soul selects her own society then shuts the door" - wise words from Majope
and to qualify that
i’m not even a big Bert fan, i just can’t stand this creepy pandering to Armstrong. ugh.
"The soul selects her own society then shuts the door" - wise words from Majope
Also:
It was all Cedric Vasseurs fault, wanting Lance to keep his word. It was all Kevin Livingston’s fault for accepting a contract with Telekom after Linda McCartney folded. It was all Frankie Andreu’s fault for breaking Omerta, it was all Floyd Landis’ fault for being too strong a rider, etc. etc. etc.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
Good stuff
I think there are medicines he could take but he should still be supervised so he doesn’t accidentally leave the stove on and stuff.
"He was out to get time when he could"
Hm, isn’t that supposed to be the point?
thank you!
If they had a shred of respect for him as a maillot jaune contender, they’d be a little more supportive of him — you know — WINNING!
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah good point – the fact that he won the Tour in a pretty dominant fashion kind of gets lost in the shuffle sometimes
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RexQLrcqwc
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 27, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
et tu chris? the link's in the wrong part of the post...
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Are you fucking this up Dude?
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
what a moron!!
AC was the team leader, he can go when he wants to…
That's not how it works.
There’s a reason teams have a DS and team meetings so everybody knows the plan and what their roles will be on a stage. Being team leader does not mean you can ignore the strategy and take time you don’t need on your highly-placed team mates who might have a shot at the podium.
Even Bert later admitted that taking off when he didn’t have to and dropping Kloden was a mistake.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
Agree some
but you also have teammeatings so you can handle problems that arise instead of say Twittering them for all the world to see.
Then Berts wrong
Imo. There is no such thing as time you don’t need. No one can know what’s down the road. You don’t walk by a twenty dollar bill lying on the sidewalk and think “I’ll leave that for later” or “my buddies are coming this way they’ll pick it up for me”. Nosiree.
Or more likely Alberto was smoothing ruffled feathers.
acquired taste
bloody good one too
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 29, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree on team meetings and the DS.
But you dont know how much time you need until the race is over. The race was still fairly tight (Kloden was only 2’ 17" down) going into a time trial. How many times did Lance back it off to protect his teammates position? You cant accuse Bert of being a bad teammate if you look at his record compared to Lance’s. In 4 GT wins, Bert has had 5 teammates finish in GC top 10. Lance had only 2 teammates in the top ten in GC (both finished over 10min down). In what world is a GC team not trying to put time into it’s rivals whenever possible. If AC had more time, Im sure he would have done what he did up Ventoux and just covered attacks.
Bert also said the Kloden told him he could go…
Bruyneel
Contador is right though. Bruyneel’s instructions were geared at Lance winning the tour and not in Contador’s interests. He then ignored those instructions….I would have done the same thing.
Indeed
competitors compete. Any true champion who is ordered to tank or sandbag isn’t going to take it well. I can’t blame Contador for not being inclined to be less than the champion he is.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
Here's a hypothetical for you all:
Imagine it is 2001 and Miguel Indurain signs with USPS after Lance has won his 2nd tour. Now, imagining the race turned out the same way it did this year and Lance had the win sewn up before the Ventoux stage like Contador did. Given what we know about Lance’s personality through the approved biographies, does anyone believe that he would have ridden to defend Mig’s podium place, rather than chased a stage win on the Ventoux?
I can only imagine him racing for the stage victory instead of riding in check to make certain Nocentini, Wiggins, or FSchleck didn’t get away.
Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste
I could see it
if the narrative had been “Lance brings the great champion back into the sport and welcomes him on his team”
Interesting since Armstrong himself brought up this very analogy, in that recent interview for a Spanish paper, can’t remember which one. The interviewer asked him about who should be team leader, and he said that if Indurain had come out of retirement to be on his team, Indurain would have been the leader – the quote was something like “I mean, it’s Indurain.”
by plinytheelder on Jul 27, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It was with elpais
"When he accelerates, he's like Superman emerging from the telephone booth!" La Gazzetta journo Paolo Condo talking about Edvald Boasson Hagen.
Yeah, I believe him
because he had so much respect for the patrons when he started out.
I nearly laughed out loud when I read that.
WOW Armstrong just came out swinging on Twitter
hey pistolero, there is no “i” in “team”. what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated.
Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I’d drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn’t win
sometimes life is a false flat
Hey, Lance, not everyone likes you
fucking deal with it
Vamos Alberto!!!(Contador not Ricco)
by Phil H. on Jul 27, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

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