What We Talk About When We Talk About Lance
Nobody is more troubled by Lance 3.0 than me. As the operator of this website, the English-speaking world's most collegial forum for chatting and joking endlessly about cycling, the return of Lance Armstrong to the Tour de France represents the single biggest threat to our peaceful existence. Simply put, no rider in the modern era evokes such a wide range of opinions, and consequently disagreement. And sure enough, by the end of Saturday's opening stage (and three hours of TV coverage centered on Armstrong), the first accusation of "Lance-hating" had arrived in the comments. Time to set the record straight.
Two points, to get started:
- This is a community blog, created by and for all of you, and consequently no principle could be more important than this: everyone is entitled to their opinion, and a certain amount of respect thereof.
- Many or most of the arguments about Lance that I have seen stem from some amount of misunderstanding. The Podium Cafe, like any good cafe, has its share of regulars who speak to each other in the sometimes salty ways that old friends talk, with little concern for misunderstanding. With the arrival of many newcomers each July, some translation is in order.
With that, on the flip, I will attempt to summarize what I perceive to be the ways that people talk about and view Lance Armstrong here at the Cafe, with the hope that our usual freewheeling discussions can continue without anyone getting the wrong impression.
The Lance Channel
The bulk of the criticism directed toward Lance stems from the fact that the Versus Channel (a/k/a Vesus) is centering so much of their coverage around Armstrong. To the fans who follow the sport daily (OK, hourly), this is hard to stomach. I can speak for this group, I think, since it represents a lot of the Podium Cafe regulars along with myself. The sport is so much richer than the Tour and so much bigger than one rider that the all-Lance coverage starts looking like one big thumb in the eye of the other 179 riders... who also suffer unfathomably in preparation and who often have great stories of their own. LanceLanceLance... it's annoying, and it only gets worse.
To those fans who prefer that the spotlight stay on Armstrong, I'll say, in my opinion, that the reaction of the regulars to the Lance coverage is not hatred but frustration. And it's not particularly directed at Lance but at the media. If Lance were covered like anyone else, I suspect most diehard cycling fans would be delighted to have him back.
But to the harcore fans, a word of caution: it's not just Vesus. It's the entire sports establishment that is fixated on Lance's return. As Jered mentioned on Pez, you can't dismiss the fact that you need both hands to count his Tour wins on your fingers. And as commenter Yeehoo mentioned in the post-stage thread, from his/her personal experience being in Monaco Saturday, everyone at the Tour is following him. The Lance Effect is not just a media phenomenon. Whether it lasts when we get deeper into France is another matter.
LiveStrong!
Lance has undeniably sold a pretty decent sized chunk of the American public on cycling through his exploits, and while a number of these recent converts stuck around after Lance left, a certain percentage of American fans remain connected to the sport solely through the Tour, or even just through watching Armstrong at the Tour. I can only guess that for some it's a matter of other priorities -- not everyone can watch third-rate Belgian warmup races on Cycling.TV in March. Fair enough.
Still other fans are connected to Cycling and Armstrong because of cancer. I am lucky to say I don't belong to this group, but I can only guess that it's a powerful connection. And I can understand to a degree: his monetary contribution to cancer research is a far greater contribution to society than I could hope to make, and his inspiration to cancer sufferers and survivors is incalculable. To them he is a genuine hero, in a way many of the rest of us can really appreciate and which transcends mere sports fanhood. It really is about life and death.
To the Livestrong crowd, I ask you to separate the irritation outlined above from real distaste for Lance. I can't speak for anyone besides myself, but I consider him a true hero AND I want Vesus to shut up. These are not incompatible positions, in my eyes. I would also add, don't listen to everything Armstrong himself says on this score. I obviously don't know him, and suspect that to many he's a great guy, but by all accounts he is also hot-blooded, prone to overreacting to his critics. I don't think he should publicly obsess over "trolls" or tweet about "hater-tots," in part because he should rise above it, and in part because it sends a message to his fans that they should get confrontational too.
And to the year-round fans, please be mindful of Lance's public virtues and the passion he inspires in others. I tend to believe this isn't a problem: the hardcore fans here at the Cafe are generally quite welcoming of the Tour-only fans, even in disagreement, and the latter group will get a better sense of this as we hang out together this month.
HWMNBN
A/k/a He Who Must Not Be Named... this is a reference not to Harry Potter but to doping. In hindsight, the era in which Armstrong rose to glory was awash in EPO. Watch the "Look Back" specials and you will see Lance dueling with a long list of convicted or admitted dopers: Rumsas, Vinokourov, Hamilton, Heras, Mayo, Basso, and Operacion Puerto characters of muddled culpability like Ullrich and Beloki. Lance's own culpability is the white whale for more than a few journalists, but to this day his legacy remains officially intact.
This subject is kind of a nightmare for the friendly confines of the Cafe. People have strong opinions about doping, and even stated respectfully they tend to provoke reactions. My own feeling is that unless you possess hard evidence of guilt or the ability to look within riders' souls, you should probably refrain from speculating about the fraudulent activity of distant strangers. If for no other reason, try to remember that accusations can have consequences, and as a lawyer I really don't want to hire a lawyer. In Lance's case the sensitivities are significantly dulled by the fact that it would be hard to level any charge that hasn't already appeared in several published books. So talking about Lance's past practices isn't so much irresponsible as it is pointless.
Which led to the Ban. Back when Armstrong was retired, I broke from my own philosophy of letting people be on the site and stated that the subject of what Lance took between three and eight years ago was no longer an appropriate subject for discussion at the Cafe. This was in late 2007, when the subject kept coming up and we were years past having anything new or useful to say about it. It just pissed everyone off. Of course, the unprecedented and heavy-handed ban inspired some ridicule, whereupon Lance became HWMNBN. A more accurate version was "he whose blood values must not be speculated about," but HWMNBN was far catchier. The ban was lifted when he returned to cycling, though I still fail to see any value whatsoever in discussing the subject, even as Armstrong himself bills his return as at least partially an exercise in vindication. So if you can't think of anything new and intriguing to say about Lance's past doping or lack thereof, I'd appreciate it if you could leave the subject alone.
ELPMO
All niceties aside, some people really do not like the guy. Every star has his detractors, and Lance is hardly the exception. It's the doping question, or it's his personality, or his Hollywood lifestyle, or god knows what. If any of this describes you, all I can say is that there really isn't any place for hating on guys here, Lance or others. The only exception is for newly discovered cheats, though even then most of the discussion could be summarized as "buh bye."

To put things in Cafe perspective, a few regulars have memorialized this distaste for Armstrong by creating ELPMO, a cuddly character whose name is derived from the acronym for "everything Lance pisses me off!" ELPMO is a friendly chap, as you can tell, and while people who see red every time Armstrong's face appears are entitled to their feelings, expressing them will likely get you nothing more than a wave from ELPMO.
What you won't get is engagement from the other readers, and I reserve the right to put a stop to discussions. It's almost a joke to say this, because we're in our fourth year and I am struggling to think of a time when this has happened, but that's the rule nonetheless.
OK, that's about enough. The Tour will give us lots of other subjects to discuss over the next three weeks, and if Contador stays upright I doubt Lance will really have that great an impact on the race. To me, strictly from a cycling perspective, he's about the tenth most interesting guy in Monaco at the moment, though that would change in a hurry if suddenly Bruyneel needed to put Lance in the leader's role. His comeback has some truly fascinating elements to it, but until he starts threatening to overtake his own teammates, it's all just backdrop to the real race. In fact, if Contador is unbeatable, and Lance makes good on his promise to be the world's best domestique, it may be the best thing that ever happened to Talking About Lance.
22 recs |
110 comments
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Comments
great post.
A point of departure, sort of . . . why is it that we fans are tempted to refer to guys that most of us don’t know by their first names?
It doesn’t seem to be consistent in how it happens: Cavendish is Cavendish, Voigt is Jens!, Hincapie is George. Horner seems to be Horner for most people, and Hushovd is Thor.
(And that’s just cyclists . . .)
Partly because I know people who know Armstrong fairly well, I have tried to refrain from first-naming him in particular. But what emotional investment in sportsmen does the fan’s choice of reference suggest?
by R Mc on Jul 5, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It may not be an emotional investment,
but rather a sexual preference, as to why a fan makes a certain choice of reference between the first (front) or last (rear) name. It’s just a thought.
by sminer on Jul 5, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cute idea
the more prosaic answer is that people with nicknames that include their first names are also known by their first name alone (Big George, Tony Spartacus) while distinctive first or last names get preference over less distinctive first or last names (until they become tough to spell).
And as to spelling…
Voit? nah.
Voight? nah.
Vuit? nah.
Vocht? nah.
Vockt? nah.
etc.
thus…Jens! (and this goes for the talking heads on T.V. who can’t figure out how to say it, either).
by JFS_PGH on Jul 5, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Horner just seems to stuffy!
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
by DemonCats on Jul 5, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent and eloquent Chris
Myself , I don’t like to categorize myself as ELPMO but rather STALIN (Some Things About Lance Inspire Negativity)
by Jens on Jul 5, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh...
For the first time in my life I’m going to call myself a stalinist.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 5, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obligatory Andy Richter Controls the Uninverse reference follows
You mean you guys are like Tim Stalin in accounting?
by ursula on Jul 5, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea what you are talking about
I slept through Accounting 101. Is that a yes?
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 5, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m thinking of the worst Stalin ever.
Tim Stalin. From Accounting.
by ursula on Jul 5, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that got a loud guffaw out of me
by plinytheelder on Jul 5, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never thought I would be associated with a totalitarian state
but times change.
Call me Stalinist too.
by Fred Marx on Jul 5, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've always sruck me as more of a Leninist.
by ursula on Jul 5, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'll have to ask John Lennon about that line
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 5, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shut the fuck up Donny. Vladimir Ilitch Ulyanov
by Jens on Jul 5, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing is fucked here, Dude. Come on, you're being very un-Dude.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 5, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your revolution is over, Jens!
Condolences! The bums lost!…
More Muur...
by Jimbo... on Jul 5, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did your meeting go with Jens?
Great, man. He said to take any rug in the house.
I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
by Drew... on Jul 6, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am the walrus?
Respect the Shit List; it respects you.
by crashdan on Jul 6, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A marxist-leninist?
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Jul 5, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually like Jens's distinction very much, because I think it's important to recognize that...
…some of us may indeed find certain aspects of LA 3.0 unnerving, and have reasons for doing so that go beyond some kind of unreasoning or at least fixed and immutable distaste for the guy.
I agree wholeheartedly that there are a number of things to admire about LA, both as a cyclist and as a role model / activist for cancer research. But I think there may also be legitimate questions touching on all of these areas (some of which aren’t relevant here) as well as some worries about the kind of teammate he’s been and his impact on Astana as a cycling team (which surely are relevant here). So snark aside, and with the frank admission that I’ve been known to lay some of it down, especially where Vs. TV coverage is concerned, I tend to think that there should be room for a discussion of LA’s presence and impact on the sport and the races he’s in and the team he’s on—and yeah, some of that’s probably going to inspire some negativity in some of us.
by Ed K on Jul 5, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another stalinist (hard to believe...I thought I hate communism.....)
as in, not everything about him pissed me off.
say I don’t have any problem about that guy dating whoever in 06/07/08….
by rbjhan on Jul 5, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a seperate issue
If you ever refer to Dwars Door Vlaanderen as a "third-rate Belgian warmup race " again I might see to it that you will have to hire that lawyer after all. Consider this a friendly warning.
by Jens on Jul 5, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure he was refering to the Tour of Flanders and so he's absoluely correct.
by ursula on Jul 5, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's it
you’re banned.
I meant Dreidaagse West Vlaanderen./
Your power is turning our darkness to dawn,
Roll on Columbia, Roll on!
by Chris... on Jul 5, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's DrIEdaagse
How many times do I have to correct you guys? Sigh!
;-)
"Where there’s a will, there’s a way.": Alberto Contador, shortly after waking up from brain surgery.
by Lopex on Jul 5, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
aw come on, we’re just trying to speak proper German instead of Low German ;)
(kidding, really ;)
by plinytheelder on Jul 5, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oohhh don't let lady G hear you say that....
about Flanders
by Fred Marx on Jul 5, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya's gots to stop
reading Andrew Sullivan . . .
by R Mc on Jul 5, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say...
if anyone but Chris had said " third-rate Belgian warmup races," there’d be blood on the sand….um, on the mud and cobbles.
by JFS_PGH on Jul 5, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post, rec'ed
Not much to add to a very complex person who people react to in all sorts of ways.
by ursula on Jul 5, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Additional public service anouncement: if you're new, do a lot of searches.
The search function on this site is good, and reasonably flexible. (If you enter several words, it’ll pick only the posts having all those words, in any location/ order, and you can choose if you want “posts” or “comments.”)
You can use the search to figure out terms or nicknames you don’t know. You can see how many posts have mentioned riders to get some sense of how interesting “that guy in the breakaway” is. You can use it to find out what live threads are like for [hrrumph] “Belgian warmup races” or track races (“stand up!”) or to find out about national champions, world champions, and the special colors they get to wear.
You can use the search to see how people use VDS threads vs. live threads vs. open threads (recipes, pop culture and all). Tuned in for Lance, but decided to stay because cyclists are cute, especially in HD TV? Want more pictures? Search “hottitude.” On occasion, you can use the search function to rough sense of whether a topic’s been beaten to death, too.
You can also click on people’s icons or do searches on who’s posted what to figure out if you’re being flamed by a random passer-by, or by someone who knows their stem from their seatpost (or find out if you’re about to get a bit too crass with a kid).
If you’re delighted, perplexed, irate, overwhelmed, totally charmed or provisionally offended…search.
by JFS_PGH on Jul 5, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's important to knw your stem from your seatpost
and how to recognize which nut holds the seat down…
by Fred Marx on Jul 5, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seats are to hold nut(s)* up
with apologies to (LA) and *FB.
by JFS_PGH on Jul 5, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'ed
Thanks Chris!
Bike racing is a chess game fought by mountain climbing boxers on two wheels. ~ Bob Roll
by bethie on Jul 5, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You
summed it up perfectly, Chris. Except for the “third rate -Belgium warm up races” ;-))
by cyclingdiva on Jul 5, 2009 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post!
I like this bit very much:
it sends a message to his fans that they should get confrontational too.
I think that’s a nice insight. But I like pretty much everything here.
by plinytheelder on Jul 5, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Chris great attempt to defuse the bomb before it gets built
I agree with it all. But what’s with slagging the Belgian preseason anyway? R U a Classics h8r. ;^)
Chris II
(looking forward to 21+ days of civil discourse and some coverage of the other 100+ guys in France.)
by Fred Marx on Jul 5, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dismantling bombs...
Does that mean Tourbecco is a bomb-sniffing goat?
Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.
by Josenka on Jul 5, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he actually eats them.
Goat’s stomachs are, well, notoriously impervious to most anything short of a thermonuclear event.
by Ed K on Jul 5, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is an awful lot of information
imparted here at the Podium Café that really, really isn’t necessary. Such as goat stomachs. Just sayin…
Go Lance! (Don't tase me, Bro, don't tase me!)
by bethie on Jul 5, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After yesterday's live threads I was also thinking about how
the endless Lance and Versus centric snark would come off to newcomers. Looked real bad. If I had stopped by yesterday and was a Lance fan I may have never returned.
I am hoping those that were turned off yesterday come back to read this post.
by ZoeRochelle on Jul 5, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Change of heart
Have lurked here and been charmed since the Giro. Thought I’d join, but what had been charming and clever during Giro and Tour de Suisse, turned into something that was potentially really ugly – and I’m neither a supporter nor a ‘hater’ of LA.
All power to Chris and all you regulars for reclaiming the cafe atmosphere, rather than leaving it feeling like the OK Corrall.
Much more fun to swoon at the Tonys – Martin and Cancellara -. or whoever floats your boat. So thanks for all the positives today.
by Seahorse on Jul 6, 2009 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The confusion could all be avoided if we had that damn snark button!
give me a mother f**king snark button!
Great post, like totally rec’d.
Vamos Alberto!!!
by Phil H. on Jul 5, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That would be the most abused button ever.
by sminer on Jul 5, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was the "POST" button?
More Muur...
by Jimbo... on Jul 5, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So true, the "post" button it is.
Okay, I’ll stop now.
by sminer on Jul 5, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
Thank you. Very balanced, and Podium Cafe’s history with Lance is good to know. As someone who (mostly) respects Lance, this has been the one and only thing about the site that has troubled me. What you’ve said addresses it perfectly.
by tgartner on Jul 5, 2009 5:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
shameless own-thread promotion
see also this post. So you know we all do periodically try to clarify for those who stop by.
by JFS_PGH on Jul 5, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It always good to see the PdC noobs and show them that we are a representative form of cycling blog...
under the velvet fist of Tourbecco!
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
by DemonCats on Jul 5, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
God-damn Chris I love you!!
As someone who donated two testicles to the I love Lance Foundation, but then found that the lazy politicians-arse licking sonofabitch couldn’t be arsed coming to the Barbie I laid on for him at the Tour Down Under….you have perfectly penned my confused emotive state during my second favourite race of the year.
I had testicular cancer before him and did my first triathlon when he was in nappies…and I’m still riding at 49…lucky for you guys I was pretty ploddy or it might have been ‘JiveStrong’ !!
errrr....am i supposed to sign this??
by Flatbagger on Jul 5, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nice work, chris
now, can you pass some of those hater-tots on over? i’m starving. jimbo, quit hogging the snacks, bro.
by gavia on Jul 5, 2009 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh, so now you're hogging the snacks
i see how it is. sheesh, all i wanted was some hater-tots. and they wouldn’t give it to me.
by gavia on Jul 5, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

http://baconsyrup.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/hater_tots.jpg
Vamos Alberto!!!
by Phil H. on Jul 5, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post, Chris
I’ve missed the last two days in the PdC. I was wondering how the Lance battles were going to play out. I think this post very eloquently conveys all that needs to be known Re: HWMNBN & the PdC. Now that the “ground rules” have been communicated, tolerate no dissent!
by johnw on Jul 5, 2009 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well spoken, Bruce...er, Chris
Thinking hard - really hard - of something witty to say....
by Cyclingrush on Jul 5, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why is there an add for a Brett Favre jersey underneath this post?
I know both he and Lance have come out of retirement(although I wouldn’t say Favre ever was retired) but that’s were the similarities end no?
Vamos Alberto!!!
by Phil H. on Jul 5, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You know you want a jersey. Just admit it.
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
by nikki on Jul 5, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I do it would be for the same reason I would want a Cutler jersey...
to use it to wipe my ass if I run out of toilet paper!
I used to like Favre but not now seeing he just can’t let it go, and to the Vikings? Oh c’mon Brett just stay home!
Vamos Alberto!!!
by Phil H. on Jul 5, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say the old fart really wouldn't help em...
but the Vikes suck at QB currently.
Vamos Alberto!!!
by Phil H. on Jul 5, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Vikes suck period! (ducking from snowballs being thrown my way) ha ha!
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
by nikki on Jul 5, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oooooh fight fight fight!!!!!
Vamos Alberto!!!
by Phil H. on Jul 6, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry I couldn't hear you with this
2008 NFC NORTH CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHY IN MY EAR!
by plinytheelder on Jul 6, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man, this is getting ugly
although the NFC North was a joke last year, not as much as the AFC West but still poor.
Vamos Alberto!!!
by Phil H. on Jul 6, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey Vikes had 10 wins, though I think Green Bay went 2-14 with both wins vs. Detroit
(hehe just kidding nikki)
by plinytheelder on Jul 6, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit has a pro football team?!
Vamos Alberto!!!
by Phil H. on Jul 6, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch! LOL!
This season is going to be awesome! Can’t wait to battle you! Ha!
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
by nikki on Jul 7, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully Favre won't get himself a silly injury a la Cavvie's (y'know, the Wii Incident).
Mon coeur appartient à les forçats de la route.
by Josenka on Jul 6, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice Chris..
sidenote: found this post linked on the Yahoo Tour de France homepage.
PodiumCafe is DBT (Doin Big Thangs)
by Cycho on Jul 5, 2009 11:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I just went and looked
right under Lance’s picture for the main story, there is a link labeled “Fans deliver Lance talking points”, when you click on it, you get sent here.
"I get paid to hurt other people. How good is that? How good is that?
I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, that's good." Jens!
by jsallee00 on Jul 6, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New partnering
they’ve joined up with other SBN sites, held off on working with us til the Tour. Yay!
Your power is turning our darkness to dawn,
Roll on Columbia, Roll on!
by Chris... on Jul 6, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I for one refuse to sellout
either to corporate media or to the maker of the worlds finest, most refined bicycles.
Pinarello, accept no substitute...
by Jimbo... on Jul 6, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will you come off it Jimbo. You're not even fucking Italian, man.
by Jens on Jul 6, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three thousand years of beautiful tradition
from Caesar Augustus to Paolo Bettini
Pinarello, accept no substitute...
by Jimbo... on Jul 6, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem I have with this 'Why Lance is Bad' polemic from Chrisdot
(and it is a ‘why Lance is bad’ polemic, no doubt, not one f-ing thing about the Cancer foundation….)
Is that what is not mentioned is what Lance has done for the awareness of bicycling and bicyclists on the road. He has done so much on his own for rider safety, just by his own popularity, which creates so many positive associations with bicycling among the users of the roads, trucks and cars. Thank you so much, Lance Armstrong for bringing legitimacy to bikes in USA and around the world.
And it’s just a joke to say Lance fans are the fair-weather cycling fans – and that the Podium Cafe crowd are the sanguine true fans – there are as many marks here as anywhere else. Bike racing is in disaster mode, and you can’t really blame people for being freaked out or not wanting their kids to get into the sport because of the pattern of drug letdowns – the drugs in the Tour have over and over put most fans to silence by the end of July – not fair to blame the average fan for tuning out about what’s going on with Rasmussen and and and…
Anyways, surpised Lance doesn’t get credit here for helping with riding conditions, at least among the bicyclists who post here – not sayin’ ya oughta, but surprised.
by thisisntthezodiac on Jul 6, 2009 2:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say
Lance has probably helped riding conditions some. All increases in awareness are good. But I think increased awareness is about much more than pro cycling. Anyway, I won’t deny Lance’s due for increasing the sport’s visibility, I’ll just say that’s a really hard thing to capture accurately.
If it sounded like I was saying the Cafe is home of the true fan and everyone else is a fair-weather fan, then I apologize, that certainly wasn’t the intent. Though, come on, I did mention his cancer work:
his monetary contribution to cancer research is a far greater contribution to society than I could hope to make, and his inspiration to cancer sufferers and survivors is incalculable.
I’m not an expert on the foundation, but assumed everyone who knows about Lance is familiar with his contributions to combatting the disease.
Your power is turning our darkness to dawn,
Roll on Columbia, Roll on!
by Chris... on Jul 6, 2009 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, wait. Lance helped riding conditions?
You mean when someone yells “Hey Lance” (and the something unintelligible) at me on the road, they’re encouraging me? Huh.
by Sui Juris on Jul 6, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am a Lance fanboy
But also a STALINist (see above).
The friendly atmosphere at PdC is one of its main competitive advantages and Chris and others do a great job keeping it that way.
sometimes life is a false flat
by Willj on Jul 6, 2009 4:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't agree more
about the friendly atmosphere around here.
And it’s quite worth emphasizing it and maintaining it because I find PdC to be a unique place in that respect. I followed or took part in a number of message boards and blogs (not only cycling related), but never have I encountered such a combination of knowledgeableness (um, is this a word?) and friendliness as among people here. I sure hope the Lance 3.0 era will not spoil the Cafe spirit, and I believe posts like Chris’s and EdK’s (in comments) are very helpful.
There, I had to say this.
Ô col Bayard, Ô Tourmalet, à côté du Galibier, vous êtes de la pale et vulgaire bibine !
by ton_oncle on Jul 6, 2009 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a person who has read through many forums I couldn't agree more
I do not know why, but I do believe that the topics being controlled through well written topic posts.. no articles, has a lot to do with this place avoiding the outlandish conspiracy theories and blind hatred which haunt so many other forums.
by OctaBech on Jul 6, 2009 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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