Gav's Eye View
Welcome to the first edition of Gav’s weekly column. The column written by Gav, that’s me, will appear on Wednesdays. I’ll use this space to write about whatever happens to cross my path, strike my fancy, or inspire the snark. Especially the snark. Warning: Crayons may be involved. Those of you who are relatively new to the Cafe hijinx can view my past transgressions by following the Gossip link on the left-hand side of your screen. I’ll occasionally pick up stories that have already popped up in the comments or around the site. If you’re bored, scroll on by. Okay, enough of this introductory tomfoolery.
And yes, my column, she needs a title. Baby steps.
Hit the flip, for this week’s installment which takes a closer look at the strange doings in the Di Luca case.
The Di Luca case has prompted a fair amount of head-scratching today. It all started with a report published at Tuttobiciweb suggesting that the B-samples in Di Luca’s case may not confirm the adverse analytic finding (Say it together now, Adverse Analytic Finding. It sings, this bureaucratese) of the A-samples. The source for the story was an article published in the Italian sports periodical Tuttosport and apparently based upon a source close to the rider. The article claimed that the samples were re-tested in Barcelona, and had not confirmed the results carried out by the French lab at Chatenay Malabry. The report hinted at the possibilities of errors in the complicated testing carried about by the French lab, who according to the report is the only lab capable of carrying out the CERA testing. I do love the smell of conspiracy in the morning.
To confuse matters further, Gazzetta dello Sport also reports today, that there was nearly a third Adverse Analytical Finding from Di Luca’s Giro d’Italia samples. A laboratory in Rome found anamolies in Di Luca’s urine sample from the morning before the final time trial, and alerted the UCI. The sample then went to Lausanne for another round of screening. Gazzetta does not say what they found in Lausanne, but the results were apparently interesting enough to send the samples on to Paris for more detailed study. Another more detailed round of screening in Paris proved inconclusive, though, and as of now, Di Luca has only the two previously reported positives to worry about. Only two? No doubt Di Luca is sorely disappointed by this outcome.
Now, what about the B-samples? The official confirmation of the B-sample results will not be ready until Friday or Saturday. Gazzetta dello Sport reports that the Paris lab - not Spain - has completed the testing of the B-samples. This pattern follows the normal procedure in which the B-sample is tested by the same lab as the A-sample. Officials at Chatenay-Malabry have sent the results of the tests to the labs in Montreal and Vienna for validation. This step is required by the WADA code, and is the reason for the lag time in the return of the results. UCI President Pat McQuaid, meanwhile, confirmed to Cyclingnews that the results of the B-samples are not yet available and that the Barcelona lab is not involved in the testing.
For his part, Di Luca continues to train and to deny that he has used CERA. "I have never taken CERA," he said in a statement. "I will show that the method in Paris is not reliable. If the contro-analysis is also positive, I will go forward in my battle to contest the testing method," Di Luca promised. The rider has retained Federico Cecconi as his lawyer. Cecconi is an old hand at these anti-doping cases, and has played a role in many of the high-profile Italian doping cases, beginning with the Sanremo raids at the 2001 Giro d’Italia. Currently, the lawyer is also defending Rebellin in his CERA case. In May, Rebellin’s B-sample confirmed the Adverse Analytical Finding in the A-sample.
Given the determination of Di Luca to challenge the testing, the report from Tuttosport, based as it is on a source close to the rider, appears to be a salvo in Di Luca’s battle to raise questions about the testing procedure. According to available evidence, laboratories in both Paris and Lausanne have carried out urine screening for CERA, but the new, more sensitive test using blood samples is so far the purview of Chatenay-Malabry. We will have to wait until later this week for the official results of the B-sample, but it’s clear that this Di Luca case is not going to go away any time soon. The case looks likely to follow the pattern of the Landis case in its effort to mount a spare-no-expense challenge to the testing procedure.
Doping, meh. Next week, something more fun!
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"a salvo in Di Luca’s battle to raise questions about the testing procedure"
I certainly think so (though I also more or less got called a conspiracy theorist earlier!).
I hope you don't mean my reply to your comment in the other thread
Because I meant that tuttobiciweb article gave me the impression that they thought it was an conspiracy against Di Luca.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Aug 5, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
"wednesdays"
loosely interpreted to include thursdays when the surf so dictates.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Aug 5, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
or it's raining
George bunny-hopped my bike somehow. He's like a cat. -- cvv
by cg. on Aug 5, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we need a flow chart
The first question is obviously “Is it surf?”
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Aug 5, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
i wouldn't have expected surfing in the rain was good...
i know we always get kicked out of the pool when it starts to rain. different principle, i guess!
George bunny-hopped my bike somehow. He's like a cat. -- cvv
by cg. on Aug 5, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
depends on if there's lightening
surfing’s fun in the rain – as long as it’s not too heavy. too much, and it’s hard to see what’s happening.
lightening is bad, natch.
Meh.
As long as it’s not nearby, it’s fine.
Surfing in the rain is awesomeness.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Aug 6, 2009 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah? And how's that working out for you right about now :)
"Jens! is my favorite rider. I love watching him handing out plates of hot, steaming suffer!" - Mahatma Gandhi
Would that be an example of an Adverse Analytical Finding?
The first cyclist to stand up to him. And he did it in silence.
Will someone tell DiLuca
that the latest rage in protesting your innocence is to have innocent looking children stand behind you in matching t-shirts ?
CERA tests...
So only Chatenay-Malabry can do them… except they can be confirmed in Montreal and Vienna. And maybe Lausanne. Am hoping the first statement is the wrong part; duplication = integrity, or at least it helps.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Aug 5, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions
Last year...
… if I remember rightly, it was said repeatedly that the work on the CERA test was a partnership between Chatenay-Malabry & Lausanne. That said, it does seem that it’s C-M who are doing all the chemistry here, with the results being sent on for further analysis.
I'm not a scientist (IANS? like IANL?) but...
…from what I understand about how peer review and experimental confirmation works in the sciences, you get support for these tests and testing procedures precisely by showing others what you’ve done, and how you’ve done it, and asking them to replicate the results and confirm your analysis. I have a hard time imagining that the chemical techniques for doing this kind of testing is being kept in one lab, and if anything there’s simply a delay in getting other lab workers up to speed on the new analytical protocols.
Anyone with more expertise, is there something I might be missing? I ask because the idea that it’s all this one lab and no one else can do it just seems flatly implausible to me.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
In principle, yes
The testing procedures are usually published in scientific journals (with names like “Blood”), so in principle the test could be done anywhere. In practice, I guess there could be all sorts of budgetary/bureaucratic/jurisdiction roadblocks that keep the testing at C-M.
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
also
The CERA blood test is the same laboratory procedure as the urine test, so there doesn’t seem to be any technical reason the test couldn’t have been done in Rome. More science here.
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
I'm thinking this has to be an accreditation thing then...
and they’re using one or two as the ‘experimental’ labs and only spreading out the tests when they’re certain they’ve got any kinks worked out. /end pure uninformed speculation.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
All the above, in my lab experience, is true..
however, the publication of a technique in a peer reviewed journal and the demonstration of its efficacy DOES NOT NECESSARILY ensure that the technique can be physically replicated in other labs. Not all labs have the same material…..it is possible, though unlikely, that other labs lack a whoozywhatist or plongdinger for example….
BAH!!!!....Cavendish?!
TLP 7.0 Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent
adding
The CERA testing is very expensive. To me, this is the more logical explanation of the limited lab space devoted to it.
Do we know why it's more expensive?
As I understand it the standard for a positive CERA test is blood plasma instead of urine, but otherwise it’s the same laboratory test. Is the extra expense in the handling and preparation of plasma?
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
No idea
There hasn’t been a ton of information available on this, or at least, that I’ve seen.
The first generation CERA test was urine, and not very accurate. Not very accurate in the sense that it did not always find the CERA. The second generation test – which is only recently put into practice – is a blood test and reportedly more accurate.
I don’t know the reason for the added expense, just that it’s been reported that the new testing is more expensive.
What I don't like,
AFAIK, none of the®EPO tests have been published for peer review. We know nothing about false positive or false negative rates.
There are many publications
Go here and search for something like “erythropoietin AND doping”, or directly enter 16180943, 17503402, 18245659, 18591615, etc. A couple review articles are 17516052 and 12131056. Most of these come out of C-M, Lausanne, and Barcelona.
The standard rEPO test is based on the location of bands on a gel. Unless the sample has been mishandled or contaminated, false positives are unlikely. Gel bands are pretty much the gold standard in protein characterization.
Newer methods like this one are probably more prone to false positives. This is more of a “screen” than a “test”, in that it looks at hundreds of samples simultaneously. The authors propose using it to find suspicious samples and then following up with the older, gel band test.
Overall, the tests for blood boosters are much more reliable than the test for testosterone, which is based on mass spectrometry and much trickier to do.
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
This, right here, is why I love PdC!
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
My understanding is...
That the urine tests for CERA are carried about by the Paris lab and Lausanne. But as of now, it appears that Paris is the only lab doing the new more accurate blood test for CERA. I’m watching for more info on that, though, and I’ll post it up when I see it.
The results can be confirmed, though, according to these reports, yes. My impression matches civetta – that the chemistry is done in Paris, the interpretation is confirmed by Montreal and Vienna.
DiLuca is screwed regardless
He’s 33 already. Any pause in his career is going to start letting the air out. And don’t throw Rebellin back at me…
The next generation will be firmly in charge by the time Di Luca is set free again.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Aug 5, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions
*takes Rebellin out of the man-sized-sling-shot*
You’re no fun.
"Jens! is my favorite rider. I love watching him handing out plates of hot, steaming suffer!" - Mahatma Gandhi
Dude! Slingshot? Pfft...
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
I stand fully corrected.
Nice vertical drop engineering with the mid-arm axle. ’spect!
"Jens! is my favorite rider. I love watching him handing out plates of hot, steaming suffer!" - Mahatma Gandhi
I just appreciate the combination of altitude and distance...
…and of course fire!
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
I wonder how hard it would be to retune that device...
… from throwing burning pianos, to throwing the average David Millar bike…
"Jens! is my favorite rider. I love watching him handing out plates of hot, steaming suffer!" - Mahatma Gandhi
Oooooooo....
so say… a few hundred pounds to 16 or so…. hummm….
Were you planning on having the bike on fire, and were you going to have the rider attached? I’d say that in some cases, both might be appropriate.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
screw that
How about a replica megalodon? Since a real one is hard to come by, let alone light on fire.
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Aug 5, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I may have to use this
time for my Nibali valentine post?
ABRUZZIAM...uh oh
by Chris Fontecchio on Aug 5, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
didn't he say
he would retire if the b samples were proved positive?
"at the end of the day, it's only the tour de france."- bradley wiggins (and majope)
Di Luca seems to be claiming that the French lab did send the A samples to Barcelona.
Another poster on the cicloweb forum has now put up what seems to be a useful AGI wire story with all the Di Luca quotes (scroll down to henkmovi, 18:38).
Another Di Luca lawyer, Eugenio De Toni, is quoted as saying that the fact that Chatenay-Malabry have requested validation from the other labs for both A & B samples gives weight to their argument (i.e. that the testing methods are dodgy, and, presumably, Chatenay-Malabry know it). Whereas, as Gavia says, isn’t that actually the usual procedure?
Yes, it is typical now
The WADA code changed this year, I believe, to require validation from multiple labs.
From that article, it sounds like Di Luca requested the samples to be sent to Barcelona – but it’s unclear if they actually were. The Gazzetta and UCI statements suggest not.
It doesn't help in these matters
that the Italians use the same word, campione, to mean both champion and sample.
That's just too funny.
Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler
I love that though...
& the French word, echatillon, which sounds like it ought to be an altogether different kind of sample…
And, again, I am a dumbass
‘cream’ does have the n. I don’t what I was thinking. Perhaps it was too early for me. We gotta stop meeting like this.
It only requires a second opinion on the test results.
Not sure if that is what you are saying Gavia. The sample doesn’t have to be tested by two different labs.
Here is the link for Sui Juris. Page 8.
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/td2009eop_en.pdf
That's how I understood Gav...
…but thanks for the clarification. I did wonder a bit.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
It gets confusing
so if an A sample has an “adverse analytic finding” then the B sample is tested.
If the adverse result is confirmed in the initial test of the B sample, then the B sample is sent to Vienna and Montreal and retested? So the B sample is split into A and B, and C parts and then there is an A result of the B sample (the initial B test), a B result of the B sample (in Vienna) and a C result of the B sam^le in Montreal?
Meanwhile, a rogue D test in Barcelona of the B sample may have been conducted?
Defense attorneys must love this stuff.
Moo
Aaargh, my brain!
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
No, the *results* are sent to Vienna and Montreal to be re-analyzed.
The testing is not redone a third time.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
correct
The samples aren’t split – the results are analyzed. For most of these tests, the chemistry is routine, and the complexity comes in the interpretation. So this validation process is more important than it sounds. Scientists from the other labs are looking at the data and saying yes, it’s a positive, no it’s inconclusive, or no, it doesn’t meet the criteria of a positive test.
The A sample results are validated. Then, the athlete is notified. The athlete may have a representative present for the opening of the B-sample. Then, it’s tested. Then, the results are validated.
money well spent
good thing he’s gonna spend millions clearing his good name, instead of using the money to help the earthquake victims he cares so much about.
also, aren’t the procedures that DiLoser claims to be unreliable kept secret? if so, how does he know?
Because he & his legal team sent representatives to witness the B sample testing,
Athletes whose A samples are declared positive have the right to witness the analysis of the B sample under the WADA code.
Tuttobici also published a report questioning if Rebellin's B sample was negative
before it officially came back positive.
http://tinyurl.com/muad4u
Nice catch
And if you look closely, you will also find that the very same journalist wrote that report. That Rebellin and Di Luca also share the same lawyer suggests a bit of a pattern, though I hesitate to take that too far.
hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
Dunno
I don’t know a thing about any of the lawyers involved here, but you can bet that if I were wrongly charged with a crime, I’d have zero worries about hiring a lawyer who has represented a guilty client before.
OJ
"Jens! is my favorite rider. I love watching him handing out plates of hot, steaming suffer!" - Mahatma Gandhi
may I simply stand here and applaud the fact that Gavia has a weekly column here.....hooooray!!!!
…simply brilliant idea!!
I so long for the days of Gav's awesome gossip scoops.
At least we know I’ll be here on Wednesday nights to try and catch up every week. Welcome back miss Surfer Girl. :-)
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
Hi girl!!!
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
Oh, Gav, I've missed your Gossips! Fun times, for sure.
And I’m sitting here thinking of names, names….what the heck rhymes with Gah-VEE-ya?
As my father use to say, "only the genius can control chaos." There you go: message of the day " -Jens! Voigt, Taking The Lead Diary, "My Suitcase."
Why can't we just call it Gossip!?
Just saying.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
lol, me too
i’ve missed the gossip too. future editions will be more gossipy and snarky. this one turned out to be more seriously dopey. there’s only so much of that we can have, no?
and yes, i could resurrect the gossip graphics and such – but a lot of the material is covered around here each day, so it’s harder not to repeat stuff that’s already been hashed out. that’s why i’ve shifted to more open-ended column-thingy, that might be gossipy, might be dopey, and might have crayons.
I miss the crayons.
I love C, not because he rocks as a cyclist, but because deep down he's a band geek! LOL!
promise, there will be more crayons
but it has to be just the right crayon occasion. not just any occasion will do.
loooove crayons!
George bunny-hopped my bike somehow. He's like a cat. -- cvv
by cg. on Aug 6, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, that's quite pithy.
Makes me smile.
As my father use to say, "only the genius can control chaos." There you go: message of the day " -Jens! Voigt, Taking The Lead Diary, "My Suitcase."
Since it's gossip
how about something that shows that it’s your take on things… such as “vista dal passo” or “view from the pass”? Just don’t use the italian word for gossip, “gumar”, because apparently it also mean mistress, and we don’t want people getting the wrong idea…

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