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It seems Liberty Seguros are doomed (again) due to these three testing positive for that stupid drug CERA. Joy. Also means Spain need someone to take Guerra's place at the World Champs TT. I'd suggest his team mate but is that even safe anymore?!

The tests were conducted before the Tour of Portugal and the UCI has already informed the riders.

over 2 years ago Podiumcafe_avatar_tiny Helsy33 33 comments 1 recs  | 

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CN version of the same story for those who aren’t up to Spanish this early in the day.

by civetta on Sep 18, 2009 6:53 AM EDT reply actions  

And Liberty Seguros pull out of cycling sponsorship

with immediate effect. Would I be being kind to say that they were unlucky with the teams they chose to sponsor?

by Monty. on Sep 18, 2009 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Given the pattern, and the late date, I'm not sure unlucky covers it.

At some point, and I think we’re past it, having three riders test positive from one team goes beyond bad luck and reaches into gross negligence territory, or worse.

You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.

by Ed K on Sep 18, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking of all the busts they had

on the other team they sponsored, pre-Puerto.

by Monty. on Sep 18, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but somewhere due diligence comes into play...

…on the part of the sponsor too.

You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.

by Ed K on Sep 18, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

snort

sliced and diced securities trading

"Race radios in Cat 4?"

by gravel road on Sep 18, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh my.

I honestly had no idea Nozal still raced bikes. I thought he’d been nailed years ago.

Hasta la vista boyz.

by Jen See on Sep 18, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions  

Yawn

this isnt shocking at all

by agl on Sep 18, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Bad news

Strengthens the “they’re all dopers” argument of laymen. Stupid cera.

De FIETS en anders NIETS

by Lopex on Sep 18, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions  

He was one of the riders who got cleared by the court

But both he and Ribeiro got suspended in 2005 because of their hematocrit levels.

Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.

by TheFigurehead on Sep 18, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but he was among those cleared by the Spanish authorities

along with Beloki, Davis, Paulinho, and Contador.

Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler

by majope on Sep 18, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

IIRC only Contador and Jesus Hernandez

were cleared after they testified, both by the UCI and Spanish authorities?

Not sure at all though.

by Bruce Suomi on Sep 18, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here’s a link for you.

Throughout the stage all I kept on thinking was: ‘don’t finish second, you can’t finish second again’.--Heinrich Haussler

by majope on Sep 18, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha, all this speculation

They are innocent of course. Why would they take CERA? Everyone knows they test for it.

by Jens on Sep 18, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

And they surely wouldn't like to children...

…right?

(cue video with a crowd of kids)

You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.

by Ed K on Sep 18, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Er, lie* to

You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.

by Ed K on Sep 18, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I assume they were microdosing?

because really, there’s stupidity and then there’s stupidity.

We all do know they test for it. So maybe you can get away with microdosing (as Ricco says, he tested positive 3 times, but didn’t test positive a bunch of time) some of the time. But by now it has to look like a dumb move whatever quantity you take.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Sep 19, 2009 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Guerra beat Valverde in a TT at the Vuelta a Communidad a Madrid by 23 seconds...

which is quite big considering the course was only 8.1 kilometers. So he probably was microdosing to make sure he was ready for any Time Trials because in all 7 races he finished no lower than 7th and had 5 wins.

by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 19, 2009 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

honestly, no of that three riders that was caught

was above his level, contrary, Guerra it was well below the expectations of the fans.

by semprenaroda on Sep 19, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Xacobeo-Galicia fired their team doctor

Feltet writes that the doctor named Alberto Beltran had worked for them since the first rest day of the Vuelta, before that he worked for Liberty Seguros.

Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.

by TheFigurehead on Sep 19, 2009 4:02 AM EDT reply actions  

and now, in english.

here

I so don’t want any of this to have anything to do with the good riding from X-G at the Vuelta. I’ve been really, really liking those guys.

by JFS_PGH on Sep 19, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Timing doesn't make sense, or does it?

My first reaction—WTF, you need a new, colombian doctor for a Spanish team, just for the Vuelta? Unless he claims to be great at stitching crash gashes, what’s a doctor supposed to do, starting part-way into the race, that your existing doctors can’t do? Feh. I’d be willing to believe that the grape vine was telling them he could give riders an extra boost.

My considered reaction?

On the other hand, the first rest day would have been Sept 2. Even with non-micro EPO, you don’t see results from erythropoetins in under two weeks or so, mostly because it takes 10+ days for RBC’s to mature and enter circulation (picture). And at least some of the indirect tests for EPO (CERA or otherwise) are most effective while the drug is being given, while the effect of the EPO (CERA or otherwise) lasts (as you might expect) for a couple (regular EPO) to several (CERA) weeks after the drug is last used. So the XG riders were riding pretty well before anything the new doctor did, EPO-wise, could be having an effect. Plus it’d have been brain-numbingly stupid to keep dosing with CERA during the race, when the benefits should / could persist from doping that ended before the race.

On the third hand, if CERA takes its sweet time to break down (as it does) perhaps it actually gets easier to detect in urine over time (this is a total guess) and teams are now trying to microdose as late as possible, rather than using a larger dose longer in advance.

Let’s see.
Zeke:
stage 2 (flat) 40
stage 3 (flat) 45
stage 4 (flat, major crash) 153
stage 5 (mostly flat, Sept 3) 29th
stage 6 (hilly) 39th
stage 7 (flat ITT) 54th
stage 8 (mountain) 9th—Sept. 6th
stage 9 (mountain) 13th—Sept. 7th
stage 10 (rolling) 39th
stage 11 (mountain) 22nd
stage 12 (mountain) 4th—September 11th

Veloso Vorganov, Garcia etc. also all did well before any Epo-related doctoring that happened on or after Sept. 2 could have even theoretically started to help them.

stage 13 (mountains) 2nd—September 12
stage 14 (mountains) 4th—September 13
stage 15 (rolling) 29th—September 14th (Herero 2nd, Serafin Martinez 8th)

This is the range where a major dose of something on the 12th could in theory have started to help, but in reality, performance enhancement has not been described anywhere near this fast, so far as I can find…and I can’t figure any way that a single microdose could help (no, I’m not an exercise phys, just a geneticist).

stage 16 (flat) 16th
stage 17 (flat) 41st
stage 18 (mixed) 24th
stage 19 (mountain) 6th
stage 20 (ITT) 64th

So the guy consistently does well in the mountains, as we knew. By the numbers, there’s nothing terribly startling about Zeke’s performance relative to the new doc’s arrival, and that makes me happy.

Eh, if anyone has the time to do this for their other riders, I guess we could try Veloso, because he did so well today (crappy reason to pick on a guy, mind you!). Microdosing some helpers to (for example) pull your climber better on the flats, or make them a bit more climby to help at the beginning of climbs would be a possibility, and of course that tends not to show up on the GC. But by the later points of the race, the GC guys tend to actually clump together to mark each other, so the helpers are not as helpful.

By and large, I tend to hope this doctor connection is a total coincidence.

by JFS_PGH on Sep 19, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would say that in my eyes the XG riders haven't done anyhting that surprising

Veloso is a very solid rider who won Volta Catalyuna last year, being the strongest in a break on a climbing day doesn’t surprise me a bit, especially seeing he’s more fit for the Vuelta than most. Zeke has done what was expected, looked real solid in the mountains, terrible in the TT and finishes 5th, sounds right. Herrero is also a very solid rider. These guys just aren’t known well because they hardly race outside of Spain. But if you look at their results in Spain you can see the ability there.

"On a personal level, I have never had admiration for him and I never will"
~AC about LA, me about Johan "drama queen" Bruyneel

by Phil H. on Sep 19, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alvaro Pino

bwahahahahahahahah

Thank god they fired the doc. All clean now.

by Jens on Sep 19, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eh, I (intentionally) wasn't touching long-term situations

We’re on the same shaky quagmire as always, with that. Asking if any team is “better than it should be” without including some time limit is also a slippery slope—one person can always say, “duh, they’ve been doping for years” and another can always answer, “how could they have been doping for years and not get caught.” I’m just pleased that there’s no sense to the supposition that the doc was brought in for a burst of juice to power the major mountain stages. Any bigger questions need biopassport type controls to address.

by JFS_PGH on Sep 20, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Especially when it's so easy to drive riders across the border to the doctor's ;)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Sep 20, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I can imagine someone looking to make a story out of it.

So, eh, I went ahead with a post explaining why it was a non-story.

by JFS_PGH on Sep 20, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

And my snark is directed

at the business as usual firing of the “bad apple” to maintain the squeaky-clean image.

I don’t get why people engage in these “they rode like this so they are dirty and they rode like that so they are clean”? How can you tell anything from that? Instead look at the history and attitudes of the people in and around a team. Does anyone think a Pino led team needs to go last-minute shopping for a doping doc?

by Jens on Sep 20, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

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