UCI Planning Radical Changes to the Olympic Track Program
by umwolverine on Sep 26, 2009 1:44 PM EDT
61 comments
in an effort to bring parity to the men's and women's olympic track program, the uci is proposing radical changes to the olympic track program for the london 2012 games. the revamp would include eliminating the individual pursuits, points, and madison. instead, there would be five events each for the women and the men: individual sprint, team sprint, keirin, team pursuit, and an omnium.
for those such as i not familiar with the term omnium, wikipedia describes it as "a multiple race event in which all contestants compete against each other in five different disciplines." the uci is looking at the flying 200m time trial, a points race, a scratch race, and an individual pursuit for the 2012 omnium.
final decision is suppose to be determined by 12 december 2009.
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Team Sprint and Kierin over IP and Madison!?!?
Why don’t they just say ‘Oh well screw the entire tradition of track racing. Let’s keep the spectator friendly events and ditch all the obscure stuff that, you know, has defined the sport.’ And yet they get all pissy about equipment modifications because of their impact on the traditions of the sport? This is absurd.
I’m all for gender parity, and there’s even less of an excuse for not having it on the track, since that is one of the parts of the sport where it’s been achieved to the greatest degree, but as a way of achieving it, this flat sucks. There are whole classes of track rider that are basically locked out here. This is what they did to the women in 2008, now instead of fixing that, they’re doing it to the men as well, without actually improving the situation on the women’s side that much.
This is basically a cynical use of the legitimate demands for gender parity as an excuse to gut the track events generally, that’s what this is. Ew!
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Sep 26, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What’s cynical about it Ed? They begged and begged and begged the IOC to get more events added to the calender and the IOC told em to get their own house in order first – they’re just doing what the bosses ordered.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Sep 30, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given the extraordinary lack of seriousness usually displayed at the IOC surrounding...
…women’s cycling — viz, women’s road championships run in the morning before men’s U23, just as a for instance — the ‘oh we’re sorry but the only way to get parity is to cut more or less all of the endurance track events’ line is not only ridiculous, there is no way that the UCI didn’t know it was.
As for these magical “more events” at the IOC level? Where are those? Stunt BMX? Really? There are women’s races that were cut in 2008 that still aren’t back on the schedule, there are no individual distance races at all, but Oh, joy of joys, we have stunt bmx!
Perhaps you’re right, it’s not cynical, it’s just that these people don’t give a flying fuck about cycling.
by Ed K on Sep 30, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Perhaps you’re right, it’s not cynical, it’s just that these people don’t give a flying fuck about cycling."
Jeeze, me defending the UCI. Again. Whowouldathunkit? But hell, it’s a dirty job and someone’s gotta do it, so here goes.
They don’t give a flying fcuk about cycling or you disagree with them? The latter I would say over the former. Consider the following:
As evidence of caring about cycling. They took a shed load of cash from the Nipponese to add the financially lucrative keirin events and reinvested that money into promoting cycling;
They have acknowledged that cycling has moved beyond its traditional roots of road and track and have tried to make themselves welcoming to MTB and BMX riders by catering fro them at the Olympics;
In their proposed re-structuring of the Olympic calender – which has always been rather fluid – they have, I think, actually increased the amount of coverage cycling will get by adding a race of races, the omnium event;
At least they haven’t followed the advice of tossers like Sir Chris Hoy who argued that parity could be achieved by scratching the road events.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Sep 30, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh. And if I'm British Cycling, the federation in the, you know, host nation...
…I’m incandescent with fury right now.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Sep 26, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would they be mad...SIR Chris Hoy won 3 gold medals in the sprint and they have a amazing team sprint
and Vicki Pendleton for the woman sprint events…They are probably the happiest…So they lose one or 2 gold medals but they gain them back with more sprint events…Brailsford was happy about the changes along with Hoy
by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 26, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So basically they don't care about IP either?
They have a number of athletes who you’d think would be pretty bummed. But yeah, I see your point.
You see how calm Vaughters is? That’s because he’s really one giant seething ball of Evil inside. With like, extra Evil.
by Ed K on Sep 26, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They put more time, money & effort into pursuit than any other discipline
because the skills & ability are transferrable between track & road.
by civetta on Sep 27, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a rather optimistic reading of reality civ. They put effort where they think they can pick up the bangles and baubles. All the time, the bottom line with BC is justifying their share of the stupidity tax and that can only be justified with lots and lots of medals.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Sep 30, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take the point
but particularly for the current group of women on the Olympic programme, the excuse that they had a reasonable medal in the pursuit in 2012 has been/is being used to fund riders for a road team also. They are funding more women endurance riders than they are women sprinters currently. I guess that will now have to change.
by civetta on Sep 30, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"They are funding more women endurance riders than they are women sprinters currently."
I suspect it’s a mix of
a) BC misread the smoke signals and actually believed parity could be achieved by expanding the Olympic calender; and
b) BC figure that women’s road racing is ripe for their picking and they’re more likely to get another women’s RR world champ before they ever get a men’s one.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Sep 30, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell that to say say Jo Rowsell
who’s flogging her guts out riding every Belgian kermesse she can as summer training in the hope of riding pursuit at the 2012 Olympics. & she isn’t the only one.
by civetta on Sep 27, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true but who was the biggest star on the British Team in Beijing...Chris Hoy. Wiggins and Romero
are two masters of the pursuit and it is definitely heartbreaking for all racers, including guys like Bobridge and Phinney, who have chances to beat Wiggins. But British Cycling can get the same amount of publicity and money by having Hoy, Pendelton, and others dominate the sprint events and still have a dominating squad for the team pursuit.
I don’t like the changes because I would not like an omnium b/c it doesn’t showcase the best riders in each discipline. They just get a bunch of riders that are alright at a lot of events and if they were put into other events with specialists, they would be mediocre. I remember seeing the omnium world champ from 2008, Hayden Godfrey, at some local races and he really isn’t that good in anything loger than 90 minutes.
by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 28, 2009 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Biggest star?
probably still Cav. One British paper published a nice piece by a journalist who’d shared a taxi back one night with Hoy and a Canadian wrestler. The journo brought the subject round to cycling. “I like cycling too” replied the Canuck, “I like watching your guy Cav winning the sprints at the Tour.” He didn’t even recognise Hoy.
by Monty. on Sep 28, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...but he isn't the big star in the Olympics for them.
See Olympic Madison in Beijing. Road and Track are two different animals.
by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 28, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I didn't make that clear
this was actually during the Olympics, sharing a taxi back to the competitors’ village after a night out, when Hoy already had his medals. To that Canadian cycling fan, Cav was a star, Hoy was a “never heard of him, sorry.”
by Monty. on Sep 29, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Okay...Well I can still understand that...
Tour de France wins and everything is much more world known than some hulk of a man who can pedal a bike fast for a really short time
by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 29, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“One British paper published a nice piece by a journalist who’d shared a taxi back one night with Hoy and a Canadian wrestler.”
That was Richard Moore, Hoy’s biographer (Heroes etc) in the Guardian. And my memory of Moore’s telling of the story was his bitchy comment to the wrestler that Cav was the only Brit cyclist going home without a medal. As far as Moore was concerned, Sir Christ is the bigger hero.
And while we’re speaking of Moore and Hoy – I really do hope that those two don’t start the same crap they came out with when the kilo got taken away. There’s only soo much whining I can cope with.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Sep 30, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's the point from BC's point of view.
They have very cleverly used the Olympic track programme to develop cycling in all kinds of ways & a concentration on the sprints isn’t going to help them continue that. Ok, so they have the Sky money now (not just for the men’s pro team), but at least some of what they’re doing giving say Lizzie Armitstead however much she gets a year – which is essentially funding her road career on an amateur or at best semi-pro team in Belgium, is the pretence that her main aim is a medal in pursuit.
It’s about the development of riders for the future & how that’s achieved, not the existing ones. I’m not convinced Romero will be around in 2012 even if there is a pusuit. As for Vicky P, with people like Becky James coming up she may have a lot of competition even to make the team.
by civetta on Sep 29, 2009 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I myself don't see how...
Dropping mens events that define track racing to many is going to help. Watching two people chase each other around the velodrome is tough enough, but to drop the Madison? Yeah it’s not obvious what’s going on, but that’s kinda the point right? Cycling is supposed to be somewhat intellectually challenging. Even to a spectator I get that they are going to move a couple of the events into the omnium format.. but really folks. As far as Britain goes they actually stand to benefit as they have a strong women’s program. I agree that gender equity is important, but I don’t think the cost needs to be established events. Oh yeah maybe they can drop some other races and we can have more BXM… Yeah that woudl do it for me. BAH UCI/IOC.
by Fred Marx on Sep 26, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They won't benefit though if there aren't the events for them.
A lack of endurance events for women won’t help BC at all, given that endurance is a large part of their programme.
by civetta on Sep 27, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aren't they trying to get
stunt BMX riding into the games too.
by Monty. on Sep 28, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what x-games is for (and I'm not dissing it)...
…but the idea that this stuff, because it happens to be done on a bicycle, is somehow comparable to bicycle racing of any sort is just flatly absurd.
by Ed K on Sep 29, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a fan of synchronised BMXing then?
by Monty. on Sep 29, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
…I’ve been known to watch the occaisional trick fixie video and be like, whoa cool. Doesn’t mean I think the olympics, at the expense of established events, is the appropriate venue for it.
by Ed K on Sep 30, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pursuits and madison are my favourite track events
bah!
double bah!
Moo
by Willj on Sep 26, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Madison is by far my favorite also.
I’m all for gender equality too, but come on UCI pull your heads out!
by cyclingdiva on Sep 26, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
me for madison too
but if they have tucked pursuit into the omnium, is there any way to tuck the madision in, or can’t you divide up the results right for each individual? Seems like they could do that with the right scoring mechanism.
by JFS_PGH on Sep 28, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eliminate pursuit and the Madison?
I can only assume that Bradley Wiggins will leave Garmin.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Sep 26, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Scrapping events to give the women parity I understand
But adding the Omnium makes no sense, when you’re scrapping all the endurance events except the Team Pursuit.
by William H on Sep 26, 2009 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well it does in a way
in that it combines elements of the others
by civetta on Sep 27, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be clear
as a canadian, I am more concerned with curling being allowed in the winter olympics (a Gold lock)
Moo
by Willj on Sep 26, 2009 4:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gold lock?
Forget it. China women will win 2010. The men have never been a lock. As long as Canada sends club rinks to international events we’re headed to the also-rans.
by fancan on Sep 26, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a terrible decision.
They have kept short attention span events and eliminated the two most interesting events, points and madison. Seriously bummed by this.
by fancan on Sep 26, 2009 7:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's #@%^$
Does the UCI care about cycling or not?
by Crazy D on Sep 26, 2009 9:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The UCI cares about cycling, the OCI does not.
The OCI is only concerned about money and perks and kickbacks from sponsers and all the TV time they can garner. The madison and points race would take 2 years of “reality tv” for most Oly. viewers to get an inkling. They don’t get a fucking clue whats happening in these races and not even Phil ‘n Paul could bring viewers up to speed (snark). In the whole big, wide world of Oly sports Bike racing ranks right up there with modern pentathlon and air rifle in attracting bums in seats (on the couch in front of the TV watching commercials).
Don’t get uptight about this development. The UCI is struggling with the Oly just to keep the sport there at all. Cycling is the whipping boy of doping at this time (not without reason) and has to kow-tow.
I had to search high and low to find coverage of the madison and points in Beijing with ignorant commentary to boot.
My taxes are still paying for the “Big Owe” in Montreal in "76 and then the beautiful cycling venue was turned into a big flower pot.
The Olympics every 4 years robs bike racing, as we know and love, of a year of competition for the real racing.
Fuck the Olympics.
by fancan on Sep 27, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm, I sort of agree that the IOC are the problem here
& yet, & yet…
As a teenager one of the cycling moments that made the hugest impression on me was Chris Boardman in the pursuit in Barcelona with the lotus bike & the never-seen-before (to me anyway) pointy helmet. One can laugh all one likes at British Cycling & their delusions of grandeur & god knows I do, but what they’ve achieved & the fact that we actually have more than say one or two half decent road cyclists these days is almost entirely down to cycling’s place in the Olympics. & if you struggled to find coverage of Beijing, how did you get on with, say, the Worlds in Manchester that year? Anything?
by civetta on Sep 27, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A little coverage was found
and
Italian cycling can survive perfectly well just with domestic support. They have a fairly full programme, plenty of teams and huge grass roots support. [snip] The TV coverage is excellent too (This evening I have been watching RAI’s coverage of the world track championships in Manchester (same footage as the BBC but far far better commentary) followed by a repeat of Cadel going on the attack).
by Monty. on Mar 27, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up actions 0 recs
by JFS_PGH on Sep 28, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The BBC always provides pretty comprehensive track Worlds coverage here
but then it did also for track events at the Olympics. My point wasn’t so much aimed at “us” but more at the general, not usually cycling-interested viewer. I think the Olympics has far more potential to reach them.
by civetta on Sep 29, 2009 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the IOC are much to blame here as the UCI & probably more so.
The IOC have said (rightly) that UCI have to have parity between the sexes in Olympic cycling, while (wrongly) saying that cycling cannot have any more events (they didn’t say that when they were including women’s triple jump, pole vault, hammer etc. into the track & field programme, did they?).
So the UCI is a bit of a bind because as things stand, it has to cut something. My obvious candidate would be the keirin, for one, but given the fuss & controversy that got in there to begin with, that ain’t gonna happen. Or BMX, but the like the keirin, the UCI wants it in there because of the audience it supposedly (I think wrongly, myself) appeals to. Or just to be controversial, the men’s road race, because it’s by no means the pinnacle of the sport… but that would mean cutting the women’s version too, where it’s probably rather more important.
So I guess my question is, if you were the UCI in this position, what would you cut?
For what it’s worth, I wonder if this is bargaining tool with the IOC in a (doubtless futile) attempt to get more events. I suspect a deal might be cut where the IP is saved, but doubt there’s much hope for the points race or the madison.
by civetta on Sep 27, 2009 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is your typical IOC meeting
They feed off the blood of the young.
by Sui Juris on Sep 27, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the blood of the young
washed down with the occasional photo from fortune city.
by Monty. on Sep 28, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That piccie works for me now
before I just got a fortune city place holder
by Monty. on Sep 29, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pat McQuaid in his own words - interviewed by the BBC at Mendrisio
here – http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/8277769.stm
Also interviewed by the BBC was Brailsford. Can’t find the relevant part of his interview on BBC site but he said the following:
“It’s not been confirmed yet……I guess there is disappointment in the fact you are losing classic events like the IP, Points and Madison….. The madison is such a classic event that I just worry if you take it out of the Olympic program it might fade away. So that’s a real disappointment.
However, in terms of gender equality, I am in favour of that, I do support that, and it’s not an easy thing to do – to change the situation, so, overall it’s good in terms of getting that gender equality and it’s an quite an innovative idea to put the omnium in cause you do keep some of the events – but we’ve got parity!
You know, always in life the goalposts will move and life’s not fair, and there’s no point dwqelling on it, it’s all about now planning on how we win those medals….
..It’s kind of a tinged thing really…we have to be respectful of those medals that have gone.”
Bearing in mind GB won four medals in the IP last time not so easily given away…
Whilst typing Civetta has posted two thought-provoking posts. This wiki page indicates that cycling (across all it’s disciplines) has never had it so good. Perhaps that’s part of the problem. The loss of the 1km/500m time trial so that BMX was included las time round was the first time these “no more medals” rules were applied, that they are applied again is not that big a surprise.
I’m quite easy on the UCI on this one – the UCI world track champs offer equality across the board (bar the madison) and still include the time trials.
The proposals on the table may not be ideal (personally I’d sooner lose the team sprint than the pursuit, but many would disagree with me) but equality of opportunity should remain the ideal.
I just wish the argument was “why can’t cycling (an event since 1896) not have more medal opportunities” but it appears this is already lost.
"Look at the speed he's turning the pedals.. Cancellara is within sight of Gustav Eric Larsson at 16km.. Cancellara goes past as the crowd goes bonkers. I'm going to stand up to see how fast he's going...Man, Oh Man, That Man Can Fly....I don't know what size chainring is on there but it looks like a dinner plate. 52.178km/h. Wow. You've got to hand it to him" Dave Harmon
by andrewp on Sep 27, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't honestly see why (track) cycling shouldn't have more medal opportunities though.
When you’re going to the expense of building an Olympic-standard velodrome, you might as well get the use out of it, surely?
by civetta on Sep 29, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been wondering why track isn't a winter oly. event for some time.
It’s indoors, the winter games aren’t in little mountain villages anymore and the track season is in the winter.
by fancan on Sep 27, 2009 10:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For half the world ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Sep 28, 2009 4:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First...It is very expensive to build a velodrome and it wouldn't be cost effective to build it somewhere where it wouldn't be used...
Second…portable velodromes are not the best qualities sometimes and leave small gaps in the track that really, really hurt after you go over them over and over.
There is a lot of track racing in summer but a lot of it doesn’t get reported on.
I think cyclocross would be better for the winter olympics…
by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 28, 2009 6:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the 6-day events
take place on portable tracks. If the pros can manage for a week at a time then it should be tolerable for the few laps that most riders do at championships.
by Monty. on Sep 28, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You won't be setting any records...
Plus I don’t think that some of the other trackies are as hard as 6-day men. I could see some bitching coming from them
by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 28, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Winter Olympic sports must involve snow or ice.
by tedvdw on Sep 28, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but you know
table tennis, proper volley ball, gymnastics… all indoors.
by civetta on Sep 29, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This maximum medal rule is bunk
Especially when you look at swimming say. They have so many events its ridiculous. Every stroke, at multiple distances. A medley at multiple distances, various different types of relay.
And unlike cycling, they all look the same! I know it’s where the money is, but it is grossly unfair.
by kcbottom9th on Sep 29, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The UCI should be split up
into men’s professional road cycling & sixdays on the one hand and all the rest (women, U23, track sprinting, CX, MTB, BMX, artistic cycling, what-have-you) on the other. The professionals would be better off without the IOC and should withdraw from any Olympic involvement.
by tedvdw on Oct 1, 2009 6:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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