Super Domestiques
by Seahorse on Sep 29, 2009 4:46 AM EDT
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PrintSet aside your team alliances, nationality and bias think about GC favourites. Now imagine you’re one of those men: Contador, Schleck, Evans, Gesink, Armstrong or Samsan and choose the FOUR domestiques you would pay huge salaries to work for you.
In this scenario you are the undisputed boss and the only GC contender in your team. Cadel Evans’ team seems to constantly in the spotlight for being inadequate support. If Cuddles was the hirer who would he choose? Contador is in No Mans Land. In an ideal world, one suspects Vino wouldn’t be his ideal wing man. Although, if he has to stay at Astana, he will be keen to keep Kloden I would think. We knew Lance would want Levi and Popo, but who else would he REALLY like at Radio Shack?
So choose your supermen, the ones who will put their bodies on the line for you. What price Jens!?
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If I had to have 4 super-domestiques...I would choose:
Sylvester Szymd, Cancellara (if he can be classified here…), Luis Leon Sanchez and Vasili Kiryienka… I know that it could be better but I couldn’t decide on a lot of guys who might have some G.C. aspirations and those that would be willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause
You realise that this was the evolution of your thread? So thanks ;)
I’d choose Klodi, O’Grady, Jens! and maybe Szymd. Can’t believe I had no room for Tony!
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Mine:
Szmyd (big mountains), Voigt and Paulinho (all-rounders), Eisel (flats). can’t consider Cancellara a true domestique, he’s a leader that occasionally plays domestique.
Christian VandeVelde, Johann VanSummeren, Ryder Hesjedal and
Whomever Alberto would like to personally carry his water bottles.
Seriously the first two are at the top of the domestique game. Christian was a domestique for years and then a leader so he really knows what to do and VanSummeren is not afraid to ride on the front of the peloton for hours or even days on end. Ryder because why break up my evil Garmin chemistry?
Oh wait, if I’m the GC rider then there would be no doubt that Jens! would have to be the guy whose wheel I couldn’t let go of. I’d always want to be within arms reach of his Terminator control panel so I could control the intensity of his attack riding style. Is it fair if I just grab a hold of his jersey and hang on for dear life?
The first cyclist to stand up to him. And he did it in silence.
Can you pedal fast enough to hang on?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
If I start in the neutral zone with some help fom my team mates. I can just about make it.
The first cyclist to stand up to him. And he did it in silence.
I'd go with:
Michael Barry
Ryder Hesedal
Jens Voight and
Sylvester Szymd
All four have shown ridiculous dedication to their respective team leaders and have non-overlapping expertises.
"It looks like talking, but it’s just words that comes out"
~ Andy Schleck
Ah Barry, that's a good one
I completely forgot about him when doing mine (oops). But yes, he’s a handy man alright
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
I think schleck would
choose his older brother. Not only a great rider but totally committed to Andy.
Big George had a pretty good season yet again as a super domestique.
Worst super domestique of 2009: HWMNBN
Moo
A couple of assumptions
1) We are talking about a Grand Tour here?
2) Is there a TTT in it?
If so, I would want
4 good time trialists, three of whom are also good in the mountains with at least one of them being a recognizable Plan B/dark horse type that other teams have to at least notice are react to if he makes a move.
I would not take someone who is an injury risk.
- Cancellara for time trialing and for leading along the flats.
- Lulu
- Kreuziger
- Nibali
Really there’s a bunch of riders who, if well prepped for a given race can do a good job.
Grand Tours, yes
Not convinced TTT is a great idea, but we’re all making our own rules. Your team is scary powerful.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
if im andy, these would be my domestiques
-frank schleck
-fabian cancellara
-jens voight
-vincenzo nibali
luckily hes got most of em already, cance and voight are so important to his gt chances bc of their superhuman drive, frank is the best climbing wing-man in the sport, as far as im concerned, and nibali is a special talent, who would command split attention for other teams, and could easily grab a stage win in a gt, if he is let go bc hes not the protected rider
I thought they might! ;-)
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
by the way, what's with the Oscar story?
is he really going home next season?
from what I heard it’s only a money problem now.
Reallly?
I haven’t heard much lately…
He always said he might go and work for Xacobeo Galicia after he retires but i haven’t heard anything from his mouth or a reliable source.
I can’t see it being a money issue unless he’s asking for a ridiculous wage because Caisse like him etc.
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
There are a few things floating around if you do a Google news search.
I’ve only read the one on CN:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pereiro-keen-on-ending-career-with-xacobeo
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
Ah, not money problems with Caisse, ok.
So basically there’s little chance of me keeping him on Caisse. Damn..
I’d prefer he went to Xacobeo Galicia…
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
I avoided it, but I'm really interested to see who people might think could work for Cadel
They might have to start by being thick skinned. He liked working with Chris Horner, seems happy with Matt LLoyd. If they could handle it, I’d put Rogers and O’Grady there too. It’s about tough love and keeping your cool.
Squad of geriatrics some might say, but with the exception of Lloyd, very experienced.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Cadel needs smart guys
I like your foursome, SH. Here’s four other guys:
Guys who know what the situation on the road is and will adjust accordingly. Horner would be good if not for the injury bug. I’d like Hincapie, Szmyd, Vandevelde, Nibali.
Hincpie and O'Grady would be better than valium for Cadel :)
Once again Ursula, I like your four a lot.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I think he'd get on well with other Aussies
He seemed to really enjoy being with the Aussie squad at worlds.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Sep 29, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Or did he not
according to Het Niewsblad and feltet.dk: The aussies did ride for Gerrans. That should explain his minor salute.
And if I only could, I'd make a deal with God,
And I'd get him to swap our places,
Be running up that road, Be running up that hill.
- Kate Bush -
Gossip...we're discounting this without a source ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
cool question...
Hincapie – just watch the documentary, from his own mouth he says his legacy will be “best teammate ever”
Horner – can do it all- can’t believe I’m the first to name him.
Stuart O’Grady
Vandevelde
I'm sure others would name Horner if we lived in an universe where crashing wasn't possible
by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 29, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The crashing thing with Horner
Is really overrated, I think. A lot of people crashed multiple times this year, surely it was just bad luck that his crashes caused serious injuries. Well, 2010 will tell.
You're not. See above ;)
Horner was the first man I picked for Cadel.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
My picks
The mountains—Szymd (this guy is a beast, well worth the money)
Rouleur—Probably a really big guy who can sit in the wind all day and tap out a strong even tempo, like Rast or Eisel
Setup guy—Horner, he could stay with you after Szmyd has ripped the legs off of everyone and jump on attacks as they happened or rip the legs off of everyone himself
Break chaser—Jens!
This is just me, but my choices would be different if I were looking at it from the point of view of one of the pros. I think team composition would vary slightly by the characteristics of the riders. Take Cadel for example. If he had riders that could help him conserve energy and stay with him until the final selection, we might see more of what we saw on Sunday. The setup he has now doesn’t keep him out of the wind and can’t set a proper tempo for him or chase down attacks.
If I just had one more gear, I...
excellent points
Garcia Acosta, or someone like him.
Michael Barry—I don’t like his writing, but I really admire his tempo riding.
Matt Lloyd—for another year or so.
Brusegin. He’s a bit of a stretch to be a domestique, BUT . . . he’s rock solid and can sorta climb. He’s got a couple of years left, and he’ll never do better than top 4 in a GT and he doesn’t have the snap to win a one day classic—so, his best career play would be to become the uber-Horner or uber-Rubiera. And Evans is cool with Italians.
.
Do a search of the site, there have been posts. Link to a short article that links his web site below.
The first cyclist to stand up to him. And he did it in silence.
I guess domestiques always get there day since he finished 3rd in the Giro last year...
by Vlaanderen90 on Sep 30, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Which would have been second had it not been for Il Cobra....
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
Just to offer up some alternative names
Quinziato
Barredo
Nicki Sörensen
Vansummeren
Perhaps lacking a high-mountain setup-man but otherwise covered.
Nicki Sorensen would be fantastic
So many names, so few places…
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
We all want Jens, but why not go without?
Horner. - He can climb like a scalded monkey and is a redneck at heart. How can you not?
Vasili Kiryienka – He is quite capable of ripping the legs off some folks on the lower slopes
David Millar. – Strong man extraordinaire who could keep me quite entertained.
Michael Barry – Makes Jens hurt. ’nough said.
Are jou talking about Jens the poster from PdC or Jens!
The first cyclist to stand up to him. And he did it in silence.
You gotta be able to climb big mountains
Seems like power to weight ratio is the scarce resource here on earth ( along with the capacity to suffer for your captain ) . So if you want to win a Grand Tour your buddies must be able to climb. How many times have we heard, ’Cadel is isolated from all his teammates … or Saxo or Astana have the big 2 on 1 advantage at the end of the crucial day ? I think Evans and Sastre would give up key body parts to bring these guys to their team !
Nibali
Horner
Kloden
Kreuziger
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
Klodi and Nibali are gaining ground here
I like that :-)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Nibali and Kreutz?
Two guys commonly named as potential Tour-contenders. That would do Cadel’s nerves a world of good to have them around. Why not just give him Lance too and book his ticket to the loony-bin right now?
Hmm...there is that
But I stand by Klodi.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
This was a good idea for a topic, thanks Seahorse!
My Four…hm it was tough to narrow it but…
Sylvester Szmyd (What’s not to want?!)
Gabriele Bosisio (Di Luca owes that man some money, some thanks and maybe let Bosisio punch him because he killed himself in the Giro for that man)
Imanol Erviti (Imo one of THE most underrated domestiques going, loyal, quietly gets on with the job perfectly and still young, so he’ll only get better)
This last one was tough, I was torn between a few guys, mostly Kloden and Kiryienka, so I’ll give with….Kloden, he’s just that bit more of an all-rounder.
(But if i was doing this for Alberto he’d have to have Lulu in there, everyone needs a friend)
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
I love your 'everybody needs a friend' comment
I think that’s half the battle. Your choice of Klodi made ME grin like an idiot. All-rounder and elegant on a bike ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Yeah, we know your biased for Klodi ;)
The reason i picked him over Kiryienka is just he lasts that bit longer in the big mountains plus i think he’s pretty loyal (not saying Kiryienka isn’t, but thats important) and he can TT pretty well, got it all like you say.
I so very much wanted to put Lulu there, but i don’t really want him to be a domestique (unless it’s for Alberto, i could stand that)
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
I felt the same way about Cancellara
You feel like you’re condemning someone not yet at his peak to something less.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Exactly!
In some ways i feel bad doing it for Imanol, but i’ll give him his chances in the classics which he oh so loves :)
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
Well I hope he lives up to your expectations..
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
He's pretty good...
He finished 40th in PR this year, despite crashing 4 times and 2 punctures. Should have seen poor guy at the end, was like plaster boy :(
http://www.cyclisme-caisse-epargne.fr/images/morfeoshow/paris___roub-2832/big/DSC_0144.jpg
http://www.cyclisme-caisse-epargne.fr/images/morfeoshow/paris___roub-2832/big/DSC_0133.jpg
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
Thanks ;)
Obviously has great potential.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Well the last year or two he's been given free range in them...
So hopefully he can get something, his favourite is PR but he likes Flanders too :)
This is my mission you see, teach the world about Imanol ;)
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
I'll keep an eye out now..
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I love Klodi on a bike
And for reasons That I don’t necessarily understand, I feel sorry about his unfulfilled talent. I like is self-containment and loyalty a lot, even when it’s somewhat misguide.
It’s true though, I appreciate a rear shot ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I am an appalling typist
*that
*his
*misguided
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Ooooh you do?
Then perhaps i can tempt you to like Imanol ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/copsadmirer/2892287815/in/photostream/
(on the left ;) )
Sod the typing, i understood it anyway. I’m not sure he’s bothered really, i mean he’s had oppurtunities to be a leader and he doesn’t seem to like the pressure, seems happier when serving someone. That someone hopefully won’t be on the shack :(
Convince him not to go there will you?
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
Good photo
I’m not sure Kloden will go anywhere. It was TDF hype, but I’m not sure even Armstrong really wants to take on a rider with a big question mark over his head.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
In this case
and because I would like arguably one of the best domestiques still in the game, I’ll be happy if he’s still riding in a competitive team. I don’t much care which one. My bigger fear is that he’s stuck with astana as they go under.
My favourite riders come from a number of teams. I want to see them ride not sit on the bench ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Aww sure that won't happen
I think there are other teams who’d take him, regardless of the question mark.
And other than Stuey which riders are we talking about ;)
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
You'll be pleased to know I have a very
soft spot for Soler.
Gesink really impressed me a lot at the Vuelta, Gerrans always does, Zeke is a tough little guy and of course Dessel.CSC generally float my boat.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Ah Cyril, how could i forget ;)
Hehe, so i’m slowly bringing you to the Caisse side am i? Mwuaha? Or do i need to work harder?
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
I'm very resistant to a hard sell ;)
Soler is the selling point for Caisse but I suspect it would be wasted energy.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Dessel...I'm a little partial too ;-)
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
Incredibly astute..
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Well, if he's tired of being a domestique at any point, he can always go and ride for himself at Euskie ;-)
Tee hee
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
At the expense of Samsan?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Er, well, I'm sure some kind of accommodation could be reached!
Samsan after all rides a fairly limited programme….!
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
Would it be ok if he took AV with him?
I’m sure we could manufacture him a Basque grandparent… ;-)
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
Oh. Humph. Ok.
;-)
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
If they're ever going under...
then feel free to raid them but your Euski boys better take ALL of my Caisse boys! And there’s a lot of them. You can have Zandio and Erviti because they’re both Pamplona, but will you take the rest? ;)
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
Get to work on digging out Basque relatives in their pasts and yes.
They may need to Basquify their names a little…you know, Balberde, Santxez etc ;-)
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
Hah ;)
In a perfect world we could just merge the two teams, imagine that for a dream team
Venga Caisse d'Epargne!
Is Johnny a bit more than a domestique now?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
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