Reshuffle the Giro-Tour-Vuelta
by Frinking on Nov 15, 2010 6:48 AM EST
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PrintEdit: Tried to post this some time back.. Didn't work out.. Some data is outdated but ok. Let's try it again in the silent after season..
I saw the light. Finally. After some comment of my friend, because really.. A friend of Vino is a friend of me,
My strongest dark horse is my resilience(?) I could relie on that in GT's. But if it is going bad in the Tour, I always can start in the Vuelta. Normally tho, I only ride one GT in a season with this team. In 2 years, when the group is more experienced, I can try to double again. Giro-Tour or Tour-Vuelta.
Quote by Alberto Contador
If it's Frinklish. It's translated by me
One thing. He's talking about his future by Astana... But that's not the point.
Second. He talks about a safety net after the Tour?! That is so not appropriate. You can not have that after that after the biggest event in cycling. So.. We have to re-order the GT's. The right order is of course: Vuelta-Giro-Tour.. Why?
1. GT riders can double. The Vuelta and the Tour are far enough away from each other to double-up. Do the Vuelta and Tour or maybe Giro and the Tour. What would you see? GT riders who are battling on more GT's. As fans you could see more of you're favorite rider and more riders is most of the time more action. With the Tour stuck-in-the-middle it's almost impossible. Only few GT riders can make a good double.
2. The Tour is the thing now. There is no way back now. Nobody can skip the Tour because they want to ride an other GT. It is it. Screw it up here and there is nothing left.It's going to be like the WC from the GT's. So everything in preparation for the Tour. There is no way back.
3. It will give more credit to other GT's. The Vuelta is the lost son of the GT's. Only Spaniards race there and some upcoming talents. If you move it to the front more eyes are focused because the big guns can ride it in preparation.. I will also give younger guys a moral boost to ride with the real GT riders. When in the same team, they are learning, and how they can beat them..
4. The change is almost perfect. The double-upers are most of the time Giro-Tour. That's not going to change. There is now only a more, civilized manner to get prepared. Ride the Vuelta. Recuperate, like Basso did this year, and ride the Tour. Because we've seen the Giro-Tour blow up many times don't we Menchov, Sastre?
Why this is never going to work?
The Tour in july is holy.. Enough said...
Btw.. The friend thing wasn't for real. I'm not going to support Conta.. Please discuss this in another thread..
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Works for me in any combination.
As long as is Giro is in May, Tour is in July and Vuelta is in September. LOL
I am very conservative person.
I used to be a big fan of the Racer Formerly Known as Bert! But then again, I used to believe in Santa ,Tooth Fairy and innocence of Floyd!
.
I like the idea
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
so, frinking, basically you want the gts to go back to the old calendar, prior to 1995? when the vuelta was the first gt of the year (april)?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I'll weigh in.
Are you suggesting Vuelta in May, Tour in July, Giro in September? If so, I suppose that could work, provided the weather in Italy didn’t change that race into hot death march (like the Vuelta). If the Giro could be held in Sept., the second half of the season would really become a lot more interesting (at least for me).
Other than historical significance, is there any reason the Giro couldn’t be switched with the Vuelta?
I used to think a switch back to the old calendar (Vuelta in April) would be nice, but there’s already so much going on that month. I think your solution actually makes more sense.
Lastly, I’m in favor of shortening the Vuelta to two weeks – prologue and/or TTT, 4 mountain stages (with a least 2 or 3 mountain top finishes), and a TT. That would leave about 6 or 7 stages for either sprinters or breakaways.
Twitter username: FitTechEric
No.. I want a Vuelta - Giro - Tour..
So people can race 2 GT’s without to heavy consequences for the Tour..
But you're advocating moving the Tour to a later date, no?
I kinda like the way it is. If I were a pro, I’d be doing what Nibali did. Aim for a Giro win, recover, Aim for a Vuelta win. Forget the Tour, the Tour has way to many scheduling/route problems to put forth and ’honest and open" competition.
The Giro has it nailed: “Attempt to undermine any one riders ability to win, fully knowing that someone has to win.”
That'd be cool.
Week 1 – Alps + Ventoux
Week 2 – Pyrenees
Week 3 – Dolomites
All uphill finishes, except 1 downhill TT each week in place of rest days. No transition stages.
Twitter username: FitTechEric
by The Team Chef on Nov 15, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
They should name it the Roman Empire Tour.
They could also go to ex-Yugoslavia, I’m sure you could find nice slopes over there !
by FrenchKheldar on Nov 16, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
oh, sweet
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Nov 16, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
As long as they spend 19 days in Italy and 1 a piece in Spain and France
2010 F1 Champ: Sebastian Vettel-JAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42
I'm pretty sure there is lots of support for moving the Vuelta back to the traditional period.
Overall, these ideas get a big….uhhh….no, from me.
Cramming the Vuelta into the spring will only further front load the Calender. Not to mention screw with any “up and coming” races like California.
If anything, it would be great if there were a Grand Tour right now.
I think if changes were made, they need to be made with a “vision” …a good plan of how it will make things overall better. That could mean turning your back on history and tradition, but I don’t think it can be a “just change the Vuelta” kinda thing.
The Vuelta is a great race and it has everything geographically that is great about the Tour and everything that is great about the Giro in one. It just doesn’t get the entry that it deserves. The last thing we need to do is make it even less “one of the big three”
So, I guess if changes were to be made, I’m most in agreement with Frinking, that the only way it’s worth it is to move the Tour start date, which will never happen.
But . . . it has some of the crappiest stages
ever.
Every year there are at least 3 stages that look like they’re running through West Texas. And I don’t mean that as a compliment.
Would that be the reason we don't have a Tour of the USA?
Because they would eventually race through west Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi . . . .
Move along people. There's nothing to see here.
Don't lump Ohio in with those haha I curse the hills here in the southwest part...just like the Ardennes.
Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!
by Vlaanderen90 on Nov 16, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
That's another reason why the Vuelta should be a two week stage race.
Hot, boring, long, and ugly transition stages are always going to be used to stretch this race out to three weeks. I just don’t think the racing calendar absolutely needs a third Grand Tour. The Vuelta organizers could create a much more exciting two week race, and I actually think its stature would grow. Leave it in September, but shorten the event. The season could use a kick-ass stage race with only 13-14 days of action. Maybe more Giro and Tour contenders would be willing to race if they didn’t have to survive another 3 week ordeal. A two week race would also be more appealing to guys prepping for WC…
Twitter username: FitTechEric
by The Team Chef on Nov 16, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Also an option..
But i loses his role as GT than and become a Dauphine or Tour de Suisse. Nothing wrong with that but that let not there status grow.
(And though your WC statement was rubbish.. Until I remembered all the WC guys quit one week before the end.. (But that’s also because of the short recovery time.. Now the Vuelta is replaced that isn’t a problem anymore)).
There aren't any two week stage races.
Although a shorter Vuelta would no longer be a GT, it would still be well ahead of the big one week races like Basque Country, Romandy, Dauphine, and Suisse. This “new” Vuelta would now occupy a unique spot on the calendar, and would no longer continue to be the orphan stepchild to both the Giro and Tour. I honestly think a shorter, action packed Vuelta with a deeper field would actually contribute to the race growing in stature over time.
Twitter username: FitTechEric
by The Team Chef on Nov 17, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
How about all GTs lose their sprinters stages.
If the new green jersey format catches on then we could have a template for a sprint or two in every race day and then have a GC type finish.
Move along people. There's nothing to see here.
I disagree
First, I’m buying the idea that the Vuelta has some “ugly stages” that are devoid from the other races. Why?
1. IF that were true (which I doubt) it’s a planning failure.
2. The Tour inevitably has 10 or 11 stages in the North which are just as boring, flat and with nothing, only the color of the landscape is different. Maybe if the Vuelta didn’t run during the hottest, driest time of the year if wouldn’t be like that.
3. IMO, there is more diversity of architecture, culture and landscape in Spain, (with Moorish influences, and Christian, and Roman) it’s different, which is a positive.
Lastly, @Team Chef, the idea of the Vuelta being a two week race is silly. WHY? Cause you’re bored? If ANY race should be two weeks, it’s the Tour, which I wouldn’t support the idea of either. But at least you could cut out the crappy first week which is nothing but back-to-back-to-back windy sprint stages where rarely anything happens.
I also think the MORE grand Tours the better.
Bring back the Tour de St. Laurent!
I don't disagree that the Tour has its share of boring stages,
but there is no way you can compare long, flattish Tour stages to those of the Vuelta. The higher quality of the field, competition for the points jersey, and the speed at which the stages are raced, make them different than those in the Vuelta. Although they may appear boring, those early Tour stages are an integral part of what make that race so difficult. Historically, the Vuelta’s flat stages are so fucking hot that nobody wants to race. I respect your opinion, but there is no way you are going to convince me that the Vuelta in its current incarnation is going to make for better viewing than the Tour. The potential may be there, but major changes would be needed.
Twitter username: FitTechEric
by The Team Chef on Nov 17, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Bah!
Just because I have to go down into Palo Duro Canyon to be able to climb a hill is no reason to mock West Texas!! We have what we lovingly refer to a horizontal hills (wind at 15 – 25 mph with gusts to 35 or 40). Can make for a really long climb depending on which way you are riding!
Do not interfere in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
i say run them all at the same time
no using grand tour X to train for grand tour Y. put all your eggs in one basket. vuelta can run at night, giro in the morning and the tour midday. stagger the rest days. after the three tours are done, have the winners compete against each other in an uphill TTT to determine the grand champion. give every cycling fan the entire month of july off. watch 18 hours of racing a day.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
um.... maybe if the countries were in different time zones it might work. otherwise, doubtful
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I think that the vuelta needs to do a better job of inviting top Italian teams.
The Current structure does nothing for the Vuelta. I they could invite soap and water, ISD, Diqui blah blah blah, et al, they would have a better shot of having guys who would RACE. Right now the Bigs don’t care enough to actually try most of the time. The second tier Italian teams have enough talent to make and exciting race. As well they would have the time to recover from the Giro without the hassle of doing the Tour.
Combine them with teams who care and get rid of the FDJ’s, AG2R’s, Saxo Banks, anyone who won’t commit to top talent actually RACING, and you will have a very exiting race.
'When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning' - Dr. Reiner Knizia
by bought with blood on Nov 19, 2010 3:14 PM EST reply actions
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