UCI v ASO : Round 2 - Paris Roubaix
by Monty. on Mar 13, 2010 1:21 PM EST
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PrintOn Thursday ASO sent out invitations to take part in Paris-Roubaix. Yesterday two of those were withdrawn, those of TopSport Vlaanderen and Landbouwkrediet, following the UCI insistence that priority should be given instead to the current top three in the Pro-Conti ranking. One of those is Cervelo who were invited anyway, but the other two are those notable cobbles powerhouses Acqua & Sapone and Androni-Giocattoli etc. Will this ever end?
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That's just sad
Real sad.
Gerrie Kneteman: If a football player falls he shouts for his mother, if a cyclist falls he yells for his bike.
+1
I’d like to see one of those bastards say “this makes for better racing” with a straight face.
Vlaanderens Mooiste
12 Teams go
“Noooooooooooooo!”
http://www.podiumcafevds.com/riders.php?id=754
(actually I don’t think He would start anyway)
Common sense is something the UCI has never heard of
the rankings don’t mean shit right now, there have only been two cobbles pro-conti races while there have been numerous Italian and Spanish races. Of course Italian teams will be leading right now. But really, who the fuck would complain of having two cobbles focused teams getting in over two teams who don’t even know Belgium exists…oh the UCI that’s who!
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
Close enough
I forgot Flanders is a PT race and assumed it would be the case there as well.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
Ignore your pesky maps. I believe we determined last year that P-R actually takes place in Flanders.
It's fun to beat Cancellara--Edvald Boasson Hagen
This is almost as stupid as the solution to gender parity in Track Cycling at the Olympics
…and Phil’s right, there really is a pattern here.
what do you get when you muddle up the letters in Cyclism Actu ?
you get CYCLIC AUTISM !!!!
(and thanks to Monty and Cyclism Actu for the sad news, it is the UCI that I am referring to.)
Astana has Conta...
and they are more TdF-centric than any JB team ever was. So smoke that you haters.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
That really is plain silly
they have already won a one day race, they are on the verge of winning P-N after winning Algarve. They will focus heavily on the Ardennes and Giro with Vino and may go for the Vuelta with Bert. Is Bert Tour centered? Of course but even he is racing to win more so than Lance in his Tour winning days.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
Inglinsky, Gasparatto, Davis, Vino??
Sure they have a strong tour squad…but they are way less TdF-centric than JB n friends
"Today I was honked at...I caught up and made a great honking noise back...he caught up and said I'm gonna punch you in the face...I laughed."
~DZ
The way I would put it...
The riders on Astana force the team to be less TDF-centric even though AC would certainly love to have a team at least as TDF-centric as Bruyneel’s.
Let’s be real about the Astana Tour support team. It’s really bad. Not Savoldelli’s 2005 Disco team at the Giro bad, but really bad. No one will be among the top-20 remaining riders in the high mountains, there are no big engines for the flats. I see this as an opportunity for Contador. He’ll probably still win with this crap team, the only one he’ll ever have, and it will build his legend.
Astana does have individualists with flashes of brilliance — mostly the four you name. But they’ve never been good GT teammates and Gaspa, in particular, should be nowhere near the TDF team. (If Vino is disallowed, as expected, the Tour team should be Contador, Fofonov, Navarro, Tiralongo, Grivko, and Iglinskiy with Bazayev, Davis and DeLaFuente the best candidates for the remaining spots. Noval would just waste a roster spot.)
by Mr 60 Percent on Mar 13, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
What about Pereiro?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Would be nice
If he could reach his old form by natural methods. He’s not there now. At the same time, I’m not convinced that Tiralongo offers much despite his Vuelta top-10. De la Fuente can be easily replaced. So if OP shows up at the Dauphine ready to rumble, why not…
by Mr 60 Percent on Mar 13, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, and come July, Bert will also need an experienced road captain..
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Gaspa
Wore the pink jersey in the 2007 Giro.
Gerrie Kneteman: If a football player falls he shouts for his mother, if a cyclist falls he yells for his bike.
By outsprinting his captain in the stage 1 TTT
I think he is a capable rider but don’t see what the pink jersey says?
Looking back at that now
what an awesome moment it was seeing his captain fuming from his doped out mouth.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
All that and a wad of Kazakh dough,
yet no invitie to the big classic. Hmmm?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Really what does not racing P-R have to do with Tour centrism
it’s not as if any of the Tour riders were going to do P-R(at least not the mountain domestique’s). Even JB’s very Tour centered teams did the classics yet you can’t argue it was all about the Tour. Those teams had some riders who could do well at the classics so why not let them race, maybe ASO just isn’t very impressed with what Astana could offer at Paris-Roubiax?
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
What does it have to do with Tour centrism?
Astana is a team so wholly(however poorly) put together with the plan of winning the Tour with Contador that nothing else really went into play. Sure there is talent on the team that can get a win here or there. But you’re arguing for Astana in exactly the manner you’re telling me I can’t argue for JB’s teams. So I’ll just turn it on you and say the same thing about Astana: “Sure Astana has won a one day race and is on the verge of winning P-N, and they can field a team for the Ardennes and the other GT’s, but you can’t argue that it’s not all about the TdF.”
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Astana's man goal is the Tour as it is with almost every PT race
I’m not trying to argue that, I just disagree that they are more focused on the Tour than JB’s teams were/are. They seem to have real interest at doing well at the hilly classics and Giro, remember Vino is just as vital to the sponsors as Bert.
Btw my formatting is screwed up, anyone else have this issue?
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
Absolutely bizarre today....
I changed over from Safari to Firefox and that worked. Perhaps luck not good management?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
doesn't work with FF
works fine with chrome…
"Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs."
yep FF f*ed up
but it’s worth remembering that Astana is pretty sure to be waving buh-bye to Bert at the end of this year.
Thus, a wise DS would be working to develop other riders and capabilities within the team.
As for Radio Shack, it would sure be nice if they’d let Horner have a run at the climby classics. Problem is, he’s probably their best racer for one-day races at this point.
Horner's just getting old
I bet he’s not falling off any more than he ever used to, but he’s breaking bones rather than bruising and getting sore.
yeah, formatting in FF is messed up this afternoon. working fine in chrome tho
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Problem is Radio Shack
Hasn’t won anything yet. Perhaps you can make that argument someday, but not now. They are pretty much paper tigers at this point. Moreover, from the looks of it, their Tour team isn’t going to be feared. Between Kloden and Levi, there isn’t heart enough for either to win. And Armstrong has all heart and no legs. You can knock Astana if you like, but at the end of the day, they are going to win far more races than Team Lance presented by Radio Shack.
saying klodi and levi lack heart might be a tad harsh
to ride and suffer like they do you need to have heart. It seems that what they lack is self-confidence and the will to win. They are not cold-blooded and ruthless in the way that other successful riders are. Maybe some would say that these things are the same as heart the way they use the word, but to me “heart” is a code word for saying they do not try hard enough. I feel that these two try as hard as possible, but their psychological makeup is such that they will settle for being a support rider or for lesser goals.
Well said... and it's a lot less judgemental than using emotive hyperbole...
I still find it a little disconcerting to think that as armchair critics we feel qualified to make such judgements.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Idk
When Levi says he was going through the motions at Mende because it was cold, that was a lack of heart, not confidence in my book. Maybe I’m being too harsh on Kloden though. Kid is a warrior through and through, just seems content to play second fiddle at the Grand Tours—which is a shame.
To do differently than Levi did, in a race that isn't a primary objective isn't lack of heart.
To go deep for no apparent reason and jeopardize future goals would be lack of brain in my book though. If Levi underperforms in California or the Tour none of us is going to remember (or give a shit) that he fought bravely and finished third or fourth in Paris-Nice and neither is he.
Go deep?
That’s all fine, but if that’s the case why wasn’t JB or Horner or Machado given the leadership? According to Horner, the team was working for Levi. To have him say it was too cold, so he was just going through the motions is a disgrace to his teammates, IMO. Has nothing to do with his future goals. Has everything to do with a lack of respect for his teammates sacrifices.
Even if he wins ToC and does well at the Tour, I won’t ever forget that he tweeted that comment out.
I struggled with this last year
Had a hard time trying to accurately describe my problems with the Little Bald Nugget. Yes, “lack of heart” is a bit harsh. But LL is absolutely a second fiddle, by nature. A sub, in other cultures. He’s there to be used, and not to come out on top.
Yet he came within 30 seconds of winning the Tour and the Vuelta
To me, the bottom line is that Levi never had the physical characteristics to be an attacker. You can’t win a GT that way these days.
In the 80s and 90s, when there were usually 120+ km of ITTs plus TTTs in the Tour (and when Giro courses were designed for Moser, not Simoni or DiLuca), Levi would have fared better. Indurain won without having the ability to attack in the mountains. Obviously Big Mig was a far better choronoman than Levi, but, still, in all five of his Tour wins he never won a single mountain stage.
Given how GT cycling courses have moved away from the diesels, it’s a credit to Leipheimer that he’s done as well as he has.
by Mr 60 Percent on Mar 14, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, maybe Levi threw you off by saying he was "going through the motions"
It’s not like he pulled out of the race and started eating twinkies in the sag wagon. He stayed in the race, so he was still building for future races.
Referring to riders as giving up and playing “second fiddle” to someone else is getting really annoying. Comments like that are flippant and come across to me as ignorant.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
So sorry to disappoint you
Ignorant means a lack of knowledge, which isn’t at issue here. Levi made his comments, which are plain for everyone to read. He basically gave up because he was cold. If you want to make excuses about it being a training ride or whatever, then so be it. He was sure talking a good game after the prologue and according to Horner he was the protected rider. If he’s just building for future races, why wasn’t JB or Horner or Machado the protected rider?
As for Kloden, I suspect it’s an issue of semantics. In GT’s he’s a great domestique, even when he’s got the goods on the guy he’s supporting. He takes a backseat to the designated leader, even when it is clear that designated leader doesn’t have it (for whatever reason). Wait, let me guess, saying he’s taking a backseat is going to get your panties in a bunch too.
As for the getting annoyed bit, is that suppose to mean something? I proffered my opinion, you disagreed. You made an excuse/defense of something I consider indefensible for a professional athlete—especially one who’s team is working for him. I think Kloden had the tools to win a GT, but was never willing to take the reins even when he seemed stronger than his designated leader. You apparently think it’s wrong to say such a thing, or that I said it in the wrong way. Fine. But annoyed? Really? I’ll give you the same advice I gave to Levi (not that he actually read it or anything), HTFU.
Life is too short to be taking shit said on an internet forum personally—especially when none of it is personally directed at you (or is even remotely about you).
(squirming in my seat)
Oh nothing, just adjusting my panties.
Well, there is the “annoyed bit” explanation. Comments about Kloden playing second fiddle remind me of comments accusing Cadel of sucking wheel. It’s as if people don’t consider the possiblity that riders are measuring their efforts or riding their asses off at their limit.
I’m not trying to take away your priviledge to voice your opion, and I’m not taking it personally even though I say I find it annoying. There are many levels of annoyed, on a scale of 1 to 10, I’m at a 1.5. (Not exactly a need for NyQuil here.)
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
The second fiddle part
is probably very much based on his choice to leave T-Mob when he looked like the certain Tour-captain(at least in my mind). Of course he probably jumped ship for completely different reasons (at least in my mind).
This is my favourite cycling blog aside from here. Jens, you'll love the Klodi stuff
and anyone who’s been following Mamba and Sminer here will have a good laugh I hope.
>http://racejunkie.blogspot.com/2009/07/my-fantasy-team-astana-press-conference.html
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Absolutely Pitch Perfect
Love it! I only wish I had seen it way back in 2009. It would have made watching the Tour that much more enjoyable.
Thanks Seahorse.
I've had a lousy day
but that’s cheered me up no end. Thanks. :-)
"I was just trying to keep warm" - Ian Stannard on finishing third in KBK
Thing is
that is probably exactly what was going threw each one of those guys minds last year, great stuff.
Proud member of Thuggetz nation.
Glad you all liked it. She never fails to crack me up.
Perhaps she could be added to the blogroll on this site…
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Ive struggled with grasping Kloden's decision making too,
but lets not dive into semantics about his choices, he does as he pleases. You have the right to voice your opinion, believe me I do plenty of that here, but Im not sure hes really disappointing anybody, nor is Levi, not enough to question his heart or Levi’s. Not every rider prefers to win big races, especially not in March. Levi and Klodi play intricate parts within the radio shack team. When it comes time to deliver in the Grand Tours, we can assess them based on skill and strategy and see if either of them are assets to their team, but neither of them care about these races right now. If Levi wants to get some time on the bike and just coast for a race, he has the right as does Kloden.
However, Levi and Kloden have both proven their heart in the past, I dont think that can be argued against. A podium a piece for them at the TDF is more than good. Who says they dont have the heart to win, maybe they would rather play the support role like good teammates should when asked to. If you ask me though, I think either of them may be able to have a crack at leadership if the old man stumbles come July. Their heart will be for judgment then, not now, not based upon whether they’re performing at peak in March.
Interesting.
Everyone seems to tell me I’m entitled to my opinion (I know that), but then proceed to upbraid me for having that opinion. With respect to Kloden, I’ve already dialed that one back because it was an overstatement on my part—not a lack of heart, but a seeming lack of desire in a GT.
As for Levi, I’ll stand by my original statement. I don’t care if it’s March or July, a team leader shouldn’t admit to going through the motions. That’s a total lack of respect for his teammates who are sacrificing their energies on his part. As I said above, if he’s just getting training miles, then why not back JB or someone else on the squad who isn’t going to have an opportunity to lead the team later in the year? Seems awfully selfish if you ask me. And it’s not a thing about Levi—if AC or any other team leader had said it was too cold and that he was going through the motions as a result, I’d have the same visceral reaction.
As for what Levi or Kloden will do in July when the old man falters, I think they will both ride strong races and have limited losses, but neither will seriously contend. Levi’s never really taken control of or put his stamp on a GT, he’s not going to start now. And my opinion on Kloden is above. I would love for EITHER of them to prove me wrong (I like both of them (though Levi’s comment really chaffs my hide)), but I don’t think they will (too much history backing up their GT performances.
Im guessing this...
That the leadership goes to the one who has the best chance, seemingly what Bruyneel would say. Its hard to make the case that Brajkovic should be protected above Levi or Kloden in any stage race, no matter where or when. If history is at hand, Kloden and Levi will both be there in the GTs
Fair enough
You basically underscore my point. If he’s going to be given the leadership, then he owes to the guys sacrificing for him NOT to go through the motions. He doesn’t get a pass for punking out, no matter how good he performs in other races. Not in my eyes.
I don’t know why that is controversial to folks.
Who wins more races at the end of the day
has nothing to do with my point. And I certainly wasn’t limiting the comparison of JB’s team compilation to just this year, he has a little longer record than Team Radio Shack.
Also, I wasn’t knocking Astana for their focus, just pointing out the similarities between the two because some people knock JB’s teams and turn around and support a team that is doing the same thing they say they hate about JB’s team. I predict the majority of LA haters are going to turn on AC in a couple of years, it’s just going to take a couple of more Tour victories and a sickening number of pistol salutes.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
You see how happy Bert was when he won P-N?
that’s what separates him and Lance in his prime at the moment, he goes for more races. Now he needs to the Vuelta because it’s tailor made for him. Also Astana just won at T-A while the Shack continues to…well are they even racing?
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
No I didn't see but I read. Sounded nice too, "W".
He did say something about learning a lot last year though.
Astana had a very good day indeed. RadioShack not so much. But again, that’s not the point.
They seemed to paint LA as a little dejected leaving SA today, Impey coming away with 3rd in an event ride/race. Oh well, bring on the classics, MSR next right?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
"Sickening Number of Pistol Salutes"
I’m pretty sure I reached that point about 2 years ago…
"Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs."
Astana didn't even ask to be invited to Het N and KBK
The cobbles just don’t appear to be a team objective.
If it’s a choice it is an interesting one, since the team will have to protect AC on four of the same cobbled 3/4-star cobbled sections on Stage 3 of the Tour.
by Mr 60 Percent on Mar 13, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
God damn you UCI!
You fuckin’ assholes! Everything’s a fuckin’ travesty with you, man! And what was all that shit about the Pro-Conti ranking? What the FUCK, has Paris Roubaix got to do with the Pro-Conti ranking? What the fuck are you talking about?
"Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog imitation."
You were at the finish for P-N stage 6 today, weren't you Drew?
Peynier – Tourrettes
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
tourette syndrome
is not the preferred nomenclature. it is ‘sudden onset lebowski syndrome.’ although those with the disease commonly refer to it as, PdC.
Rodania,,,,,,,Rodania,,,,,,,Rodania,,,,,,,Rodania
Apparently they didn't ask to ride Roubaix either
on the grounds of not having anyone who was any good on cobbles.
silly behaviour
if you’re going to mess with the invites, at least give it to another team that might have a chance of animating the race…an post springs to mind.
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
what the hell? no TSV or Landbouwkrediet?
How will a rider like Van Hecke get in a memorable break/ride like he did in RVV a few years back? Who will ride in jerseys that make them look like they are sponsored by an irish pub, despite being belgian? This is madness and anyone who had ever seen a one-day cobbles race before the break was caught would not even begin to contemplate excluding these two teams under almost any circumstances, especially not for two Italian conti teams. The horror, the horror…
On the other hand
I do like the idea of selecting teams on the basis of their past performance. Earn your right to start. But it should be weighed somehow so that doing good in Spanish stage races does not mean an automatic invite to cobbles races.
Think about it. It would get rid of the arbitrariness in team selection for races. I think the teams might even like that idea.
Gerrie Kneteman: If a football player falls he shouts for his mother, if a cyclist falls he yells for his bike.
Don't you think that the ASO method is up to snuff?
I mean if people are willing to kiss their butts for 12 months they should be allowed in, no?
Arbitrariness frequently is a nod to sponsors, not always a bad thing. Merit is good too, there should be avenues for teams to earn their way into big races.
Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of birds. Louis J. Helle, Jr.
but what if
this is a ruse to let French gendarmes examine the Androni and A&S team vehicles as they drive to the start?
But as the French pointed out (can't remember where)
Androni bla bla bla owe their great position in the rankings in no small part thanks to the efforts of a certain Mr Rebellin.
I guess
though it could have been Am-post being kicked if they were invited and we would be grousing over Nico Eeckhout
Kinda shocked about the decision actually
really would expect Astana to get an invite, I see no reason for ASO to blatantly leave them out, unless its…
1. personal
2. a sign of their authority to do whatever they choose
3. an assumption that they won’t bring a good team, or at least a team that interests the ASO
And Footon’s put up some decent results too. Sometimes theres just no room for backmarkers like Skil or Saur, nothing against them, they have good teams, but I think theres a decent case to be made for the two aforementioned teams to be in above these two in fairness.
Astana waived their right to participate in P-R
The discussed their decision with ASO and decided that it was better to let a team that was eager to race in rather than just fill up the space. Velonation has the story. (I wonder if they aren’t trying to work something out in Vino’s behalf.)
Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of birds. Louis J. Helle, Jr.
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