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The Kornheiser Debate

I heard the replay of Lance Armstrong on the Tony Kornheiser show this morning, and I am ready to be done. Listen to the chat here.

As a former DC'er Tony Kornheiser isn't unfamiliar to me, and I never thought he was an out-and-out asshole. So when he went all "run em over" on us yesterday, while I was happy to go nuclear on him, I did so knowing that Kornheiser is probably not as stupid as he sometimes sounds.

After listening this morning to the interview with Lance, my opinion -- all it is -- is that he fucked up. He's not evil and doesn't need to be fired. He got carried away and said things that were far stupider and more dangerous than he probably realized. His apology sounded sincere enough, combined with my impression from before of who he is, for me to let it go. He and Armstrong spent most of the time talking about the safety issue; Kornheiser didn't exploit his access to Lance and asked permission to talk about Lance's racing in a way that made it seem like he understood that Lance wasn't there to buff his show. Even at the end, as they were talking about burying the hatchet, Lance held his feet to the fire and Kornheiser accepted it.

The guy who gets the most credit here is of course Lance. He stepped up, used his star power to rally support and to call Kornheiser (successfully) out on the carpet. He IMHO was firm with Kornheiser during the show and made it clear that he wasn't brushing this off, even as they made nice. Lance took responsibility for the cycling community. Think about that. Whatever his petty grievances may be within the racing world, it's clear to me that the guy has a side to him that's rock solid. Well done, LA.

[/boycott]

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yay, lance!

Nice piece, Chris…

George bunny-hopped my bike somehow. He's like a cat. -- cvv

by cg. on Mar 19, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Well put, Jefe.

"Italians often mock me for not enjoying tighter clothing" - willj

by swells on Mar 19, 2010 1:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Meh on Lance

He did what anyone in his position would have done.

As far as Kornheiser goes, too late to backpeddle now, complaints have already been made, and it’s not he first time he’s opened his mouth and spewed rubbish.

by Fernando on Mar 19, 2010 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

fair enough @ TK

but I do give Lance extra credit. It’s the day before MSR and he’s on a local DC talk show.

"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen

by Chris... on Mar 19, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

As someone with sterling Anti-Lance credentials

I give him lots of credit for this. Part of my problem with LA is that he – in my view – has done very little for cycling itself (cf. what he’s done for his own brand, with cycling getting some coattail benefit). This, in contrast, was nothing but a benefit to cycling and other cyclists.

by Sui Juris on Mar 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"Awesome! is more about what gets fans excited than what’s harder to do." - Chris...

by ZoeRochelle on Mar 19, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

So I guess it’s STALIN, not ELPMO…

by Lou... on Mar 19, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

A month or so ago kornhole ranted about how a female colleague for how she dressed...

…the other day he proposed people kill cyclists. He has an issue controlling the stuff that spouts out of his mouth and only says “sorry” when he hears all the people complaining about his rants. He’s not actually sorry – he just feels bad that he actually picked on a bunch of people that are willing to stand up to his rants.

Yes, he got carried away. He can be sorry all he wants but he must change.

In another month, we’ll see if he actually changed, but I am guessing he’ll be off ranting on some other demographic next time – maybe the only positive I see is he’ll lay off cyclists for awhile because we stand up to this BS.

by JustJoshinYa on Mar 19, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

and, I think Lance actually did a good job on the show.

I’m not a real lance fan…but he seemed to represent the point that cyclists deserve better…

by JustJoshinYa on Mar 19, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

maybe this time he gets it. Maybe.

"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen

by Chris... on Mar 19, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Lance did fairly well

He should have pushed for an apology on TK’s national show though

Moo

by Willj on Mar 19, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I would have liked that as well.

Thank you for returning to my life cross season!

by australopithecine on Mar 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least for today

you can call me a Lance fanboy. I know others will wish he had raked K over the coals on air, but I am satisfied with the outcome.

I found it interesting that K’s daughter rides a bike, so I’d have to agree that he probably isn’t the evil maimer of cyclists he portrayed himself to be yesterday. That said, I still think he’s an idiot. You’d think a guy who’d recently been put in the penalty box for shooting his mouth off would be a little more careful with his tongue.

Twitter username: FitTechEric

by The Team Chef on Mar 19, 2010 2:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not okay with the "let's make nice and move on."

The man did screw up and not on accident. His words were a well played rant. I think he is an ass and I have no intention on tuning in to ever hear what he has to say. I’m actually disappointed that someone in that position can make such statements and it’s brushed under a rug and we’re moving along.

Sadly, IMO, this is a serious disappointment and the winner here – lucky them – is ESPN who got unbelievable hits on their site to listen to the archive and then got tons more today that tuned into to hear Lance on his show. No suspension no serious hand slap, nothing.

Last month was the disgraceful remarks about Storm and now the irresponsible comments on cyclists. Extremely disappointed that ESPN would keep such a loser when they have writers like Bonnie Ford and the like that are passionate about sports. Kornheiser disgraces everyone who works and writes for ESPN and I for one am simply disappointed today.

I'm ready for this road season to wrap up. Bring on Cross!

by nikki on Mar 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

totally agree

dicks like this should be castrated, (meaning; he should be let go)

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Mar 21, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not ready to issue a "get out of jail free card".

    There must be more deserving people out there who could capably fill his time slots. If ESPN doesn’t do anything about this matter they might as well publicly condone it. That’s not an acceptable option in my book.

Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of birds. Louis J. Helle, Jr.

by flying dog on Mar 19, 2010 2:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Forgot to add that Lance definitely scored big points with me, Thank you.

Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of birds. Louis J. Helle, Jr.

by flying dog on Mar 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW

This was not a one-time foray in to mow-‘em-down by Kornheiser. He’s done it for years and years. But this is the first time he got Lance’s attention. We’ll see if that was enough to really put an end to it.

by Sui Juris on Mar 19, 2010 2:31 PM EDT reply actions  

He's a perpetual foot-in-mouth, offend-all type of guy..

he’s taken numerous shots at women through the years – bonnie ford being merely the latest target. It is a little bothersome that some guys notice TK being a colossal tool only after this Armstrong interview.

That aside, the guy is long, long, LONG overdue to be fired for a multitude of valid reasons.

I know some people want the whole ‘comic relief’ angle to a broadcast, but frankly I’m not interested. I watch sports for the sport, not for some idiot who makes offensive/obnoxious comments and who knows less about the game than 90% of the viewers.

by Natalya on Mar 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

One look at the undoubtedly focus grouped to death superbowl ads, which exhibited a level of open misogyny that wasn’t unprecedented, but was certainly remarkable, should make it clear how much of a problem there is with the view of women among your average American sports fan. The extent to which ESPN, by retaining this fuckwad, is happy to feed that sort of attitude, even and especially at the expense of their own female employees, is pretty disheartening, to say the least.

by Ed K on Mar 19, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scared and sorry aren't the same.

I think TK was scared yesterday by the population that came knocking at his door. I think he learned a lesson about how some remarks can and will be spread around the world in a heartbeat. I don’t think it really changed his mind about the remarks he made or that he is really sorry. As the impact and it’s messages hits him some more, perhaps his mind will change. I think it may have started yesterday but this fat meat head shouldn’t get off this easy for the wrongs he’s committed.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Mar 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Just a note to all of us that are disappointed in today...

I am very disappointed in ESPN for keeping someone like this on their staff. To help make myself feel better, I am continuing my complaint to ESPN HERE and I’m noting my complaint about their staff member.

My issue or disappointment in this is not Lance, nor do I have an issue with anyone that is moving on. I simply find the things this man has said to be so distasteful that it’s made me left feeling with nothing but disappointment in terms of ESPN’s handling of this irresponsible staff member.

If you are still disappointed or possibly feel like holding ESPN responsible for their lack of action with this guy, please take the 2 minutes to click on the link and log a complaint. At least you can say you did more than get angered by him and that you at least let ESPN know that his comments are not welcome on the air.

I'm ready for this road season to wrap up. Bring on Cross!

by nikki on Mar 19, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Lance is making himself out to be the ambassador of the cycling world

I appreciate his bringing attention to such ridiculousness on TK’s part, but im not buying Armstrong for much more than his own self-interest. Call me a Lance cynic if ya want, im not gonna see this episode as savior Lance righting the wrongs of the media. Im sure such an incident will happen again, maybe different contexts though. He just jumped in to be self-righteous, and in the process didn’t go far enough to push him to an apology. Should I be happy with the attempt, yeah i guess when you take the action for what it was, but when I read into it with my never changing views of the man, I see a publicity grab on both ends.

by agl on Mar 19, 2010 5:05 PM EDT reply actions  

"Call me a Lance cynic if ya want..."

Done.

You don’t have to see him as savior to anything but you don’t have to go to the other extreme and call him self-righteous either. There are middle roads you can take. I guess the “….never changing views…” remark shows your objectivity.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Mar 19, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ive never been one for the middle roads

Too easy, ill take my beatings, but I have to say it. He’s a brand, and thats what brands do they expand in whatever way possible, they tie their name to conroversy for publicity sake. Hes beyond a cyclist, or at least hes become more than a cyclist, and I dont think ill ever see the sincerity in the actions of a man who is bigger than their profession. Again, just my opinions, not trying to be convincing.

by agl on Mar 19, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

judging people's motives isn't easy

and is mostly based on preconceived judgments/attitudes about the person, which explains your varying opinions on the reasons why lance got involved. i don’t see why a brand couldn’t do something nice/without a profit motive, and i’m sure even saints and saviors can sometimes act out of selfish motives. we should maybe focus more on the results of the actions rather than the reasons.

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Mar 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're right

but i refuse to praise Lance for this episode. He uses the power of himself to bring reconciliation to some out of line comments, and Im supposed to be satisfied with the results and then give him big thanks for speaking for the little guys who dont have the access to speak their minds. Hate that. Id rather have my opinions shouted in the forest and left unnoticed than listening to somebody speak for me, but when I look at it impartially, I have absolutely nothing to do with this, so ill shut my trap and leave it at that.

by agl on Mar 19, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

i personally don’t think he really “deserves praise” for this. i think what he did was a good thing, and while i don’t necessarily need or want people to talk for me, i believe he was talking for himself also. i also think that it’s something just about any cyclist would have done, if they had the opportunity, and that as a type of (unelected) leader of the cycling community in the us, i feel it’s kind of his duty to stick up for the little guys or girls, even if some of them don’t need/want him to.

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Mar 22, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW

TK’s contact with LA came about as a result of TK asking fellow DC journalist Sally Jenkins to put him in touch with LA.

Seriously – and again, I say this as someone who thinks Lance is an unrepentant doper who is, in fact, driven by self righteousness – I think he got involved here purely as a cyclist who was tired of hearing this shit, and wanted to strike back at a culture that encourages treating cyclists like deer on the road.

So, for that, he has my absolutely genuine appreciation and thanks.

by Sui Juris on Mar 19, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Instead of being upset that you linked that photo without an appropiate warning,

    I’m going to send a link and maybe even a hard copy of it to TK, if he’s human he might get it.

Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of birds. Louis J. Helle, Jr.

by flying dog on Mar 19, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

  I’ve been disappointed with Lance as a result of what he’s done on social media, but I think he did well on this one. He put a face on cyclists, and made several good points about cyclists being people, too. +1 Lance (something I’d forgotten how to write.)

  That being said, the whole interview was a bit too conciliatory to me, and I still feel like the winners in this event are ESPN and their sponsors. Exposure is everything, and this was HUGE exposure. Shock jocks aren’t paid to say the right thing. They’re paid to get noticed by potential consumers of the sponsors’ products.

  Overall, I’m disappointed in how this went down, and I think we’ve been played by marketing. But just as this got many of us to listen to ESPN (even if only once), if some of that guy’s listeners think twice before going off when they spot a cyclist in the road, I’ll take it.

"He looked pretty good until he went over the side of that cliff." - thevaro

by SpaceGuy on Mar 19, 2010 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

The "how to exactly use your car against bikes nascar style" discussion remains very bad.

But I have Lance in VDS – Big Aloha team captain, in fact: Classic Shack.

One of the last years to have him!
De Ronde!
Amstel!
Liege!
Il Tejano!

by rubesANdbabes on Mar 20, 2010 1:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Sorry, It's nice to have a champion,

but the game is still mainly against in USA.

Anyone for equally super harsh drunk driving and hitting bicyclist/pedestrian laws? Mandatory high-risk insurance pools for those with any minor driving infractions?

It might hurt car sales…

by rubesANdbabes on Mar 20, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

What about the other two people?

Listen to the show this all started.

They were all in on this, but no attempt to apologize from them.
In fact, I’d say the actual apology lacked any believable sincerity at all.

I happen to think Lance tried really hard to allow Tony the chance to say that under no circumstances is it alright to ‘lightly’ hit a person on a bicycle.
He never really did, but rather chose to brush it all off as if he got carried away.

by Ryan_Liles on Mar 21, 2010 1:42 AM EDT reply actions  

I happen to think all three people in that show should be fired

by Ryan_Liles on Mar 21, 2010 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Mar 21, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

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