O/T Training Help - How to maintain a plateau of form?

by perezbike on Mar 9, 2010 11:46 AM EST

Folks,

Need a little help with the subject above. Let me explain as briefly as I can (on the flip):

I know a lot of you go or have gone through structured training programs for some time and I would like to leverage on your experiences.

In the past I just went out for rides/runs but about 1.5 to 2 years ago I thought I should structure more my training to get more out of my limited time. I am the typical time crunched athlete so I squeeze 6 to 8 hours of weekly training in 5 days (6 if I am lucky). I have nailed down a 12 to 16 weeks cycle. I do the base training, build up volume and intensity then cut a little on the volume while increasing intensity to finally taper and race. I have also learned to put some races before my main event just as training. I have learned (the hard way) that races are high quality training unless you do more than you can and compromise the next week training (J).I do all this effort to a main race, but after it I am usually having some weeks off (with activity but no structure) to then repeat the cycle again. This is working and I have no complaints (but....there is always a but)

In parallel I figured out that there is pretty decent calendar of road racing around here (basically every weekend from Feb/March to May/June)

So here come the questions:

1) Can I maintain a plateau of form after my main target for some weeks to do a few more races on the following weekends? (I know I can’t peak for 4, 5 weekends otherwise it would not be a peak J) What is an acceptable length of time? 2 or 3 weeks/weekends? Maybe 4? What works for you?

2) What type of training do I squeeze in the days before the weekend races? Every single time I see a training plan it ends up with the main event/main target race.

What I would try to do here is to recover on Monday, do some hard training on Tuesday/Wednesday then a rest on Thursday roll on Friday and race on Saturday. I believe that with the decreased intensity in training plus the extended efforts to race my form would fade out, hopefully not too fast.

Am I in the right direction? What do you guys do? Any good reference about the subject? (internet, books, past threads).

Thanks a lot.

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Comments

I'm far from an expert

But Dirk Freil is pretty dang good – check out his Training Bible for Cyclists.

You’re pretty much right on for holding a peak for 3 weeks or so – cut the volume, do short, high-intensity work Tuesday and Wednesday that keeps you sharp but doesn’t overly fatigue you. Your endurance and fitness will decrease a bit over a peaking period like this, but so does fatigue. Since form is a combination of both fitness and fatigue, your form can be peaked when your fitness has started to slide down some.

Again, I’m no expert and know the theory better than the practice. I’ve never tried to get such a short, high peak before so I don’t know first-hand how to manage things. Read, read, read is my advice!

by Douglas Ansel on Mar 9, 2010 12:04 PM EST reply actions

ordered the training bible. thanks

"Racing bikes is for the kids, the rest of us just want to feel like kids on our bikes" - Flying Dog

by perezbike on Mar 9, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions

Perez

Do you have 1 specific race in mind that you would like to be at peak for, or do you have a number of races within a close time period that you would like to peak for? Either is achievable, but getting there is a little different approach.

"Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog imitation."

by Drew Davis on Mar 9, 2010 12:44 PM EST reply actions

That is exactly my point Drew.

I am used to peak for an specific race. Then pull the plug off and start again later.

Now I would like to have a different approach: peaking for a number of races within a close period of time. But I couldn’t find any reference to that so I can read, learn and apply.
All the training plans that I get seems to have approach number 1) : peak for a specific race.

So If you can give me some tips on approach number 2) I would appreciate.

"Racing bikes is for the kids, the rest of us just want to feel like kids on our bikes" - Flying Dog

by perezbike on Mar 9, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions

If you've got a HR monitor, that's a good start

I’d also ask what types of races do you do the most: crits, circuit races, longer road races, etc. Knowing that plus how much time per week you have to train (6-8 hours) makes for a workable program.

R Mc is thinking the way I am (below), although I keep my weight lifting confined to the winter and just do maintenance during the year. I like having a dedicated recovery day on the bike to flush out my legs. Hamstring/glute work is the key to keeping your back healthy.

"Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog imitation."

by Drew Davis on Mar 9, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions

I've got a HRM and I am using it for my training

The races are from 60 to 90km. There some short cicuits crits like and some longer loops like 2 or 3 for the 90km, for example.

I pretty much know how to build up for a certain date as I said. My main doubt is how to do that let’s say for 3 or 4 weekend races in a row. What do I do between then?

"Racing bikes is for the kids, the rest of us just want to feel like kids on our bikes" - Flying Dog

by perezbike on Mar 9, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions

Do super hard interval rides on Wednesdays

take Thursday’s off, and do openers on Fridays.

by R Mc on Mar 9, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions

now we are talking. thanks.

monday & tuesday? easy or off?

whith your experience you would say form will fade in how many weeks? about 4?

"Racing bikes is for the kids, the rest of us just want to feel like kids on our bikes" - Flying Dog

by perezbike on Mar 9, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions

sorta depends on how you feel

I lift (easy) on Mondays, and maybe do light tempo intervals on Tuesday, but if I don’t want to, I either don’t ride, or just cruise around easy.

I saw somebody refer to this as the “hay’s in the barn” period: that is, you’ve done all the hard work to build your form—so now it’s just maintenance

AND, you only want enough stress during the week to get you ready for the weekend.

Judging by my training logs, I think my physiological form stays pretty consistent (except for the really top end, 3 minutes and less periods), what’s hard to maintain for me is the mental form. And I can keep that together for maybe4-6 weeks (of back-to-back or every other weekend race weekends)

by R Mc on Mar 10, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions

I'd affirm what R_Mc said.

Monday and Tuesday – emphasis on recovery, recovery spins if you ride. More flexibility on Tuesdays, but still don’t want to try to train if you need a bit of recovery from the weekend.
Wednesday – Short and hard, easy spin back to the house. Get the efforts in and no more training stress after that.
Thursday should be just a recovery spin up to an hour, easy-peasy to keep the legs moving.
Friday a few openers.

Then kick ass and repeat

by Douglas Ansel on Mar 10, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions

R Mc, Dansel, Drew. Thanks a lot folks. Really Helpful.

This was exactly the direction that I needed. Now I will try it out and see how the body responds, fine tune if needed.

Just one more little thing: I am lost in translation on “openers”. Can you quickly explain that quickly if it is not ask too much?

"Racing bikes is for the kids, the rest of us just want to feel like kids on our bikes" - Flying Dog

by perezbike on Mar 10, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions

Good question

and what works for you might not work for me . . .

The basic idea is a semi-intense set of efforts to get your body ready without putting it into serious stress.

I’ve used Friel’s P1 ride (3 or so sets of 10 second jumps every 5 minutes w.5 minutes rest between sets), I’ve also used one hour of 10 second jumps every 3 minutes.

by R Mc on Mar 10, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions

I've used 3 sets of

90 second sub threshold efforts with 5 minutes recovery in between.

As R Mc says, try a few different ones to see what your legs like best, but the point behind any of these is to get some lactic acid flowing to wake your legs up for the next days effort, without really tiring them out.

"Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog imitation."

by Drew Davis on Mar 11, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions

In a similar vein...

My brother’s coach has him do 4×90 seconds at a level you would use for a 5-minute interval. Just enough to get the lactic acid flowing and the buffering going.

by Douglas Ansel on Mar 11, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions

i get you thanks

I usually dont do much the they before. but this is not the first time I hear about getting your legs to wake up.

I will try them also. really thank you guys.

"Racing bikes is for the kids, the rest of us just want to feel like kids on our bikes" - Flying Dog

by perezbike on Mar 11, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, that one works too. Depending on how you're feeling

you can go either Threshold or Sub-Threshold for those open up intervals. Sometimes if it’s been a heavy week the ST feels better.

"Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog imitation."

by Drew Davis on Mar 12, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions

two things: (and maybe a third)

1. Get the ‘base’ right. If you have less than 10 hours a week to train, you HAVE to be doing sweet spot (sub-threshold intervals in the 8-20 minute range) intervals.

2. Get recovery right. When you increase the intensity of the intervals, make the recovery rides easier (or ditch them).

3. If you’re over 35: consider lifting weights/yoga/core strength exercises at least once a week in lieu of a recovery ride.

by R Mc on Mar 9, 2010 1:02 PM EST reply actions

Thanks. I do 1) and 2) after some learning :)

This last cycle I just included 2 sessions of core strenght exercise. I like the result: riding confortably for more time, no back pain etc….

"Racing bikes is for the kids, the rest of us just want to feel like kids on our bikes" - Flying Dog

by perezbike on Mar 9, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions

Very helpful information Thanks everyone!

R Mc is right about the stretching/flexibility/yoga. It took me a while to find out what stretches worked and what didn’t (yoga). Also, it took me a while to make stretching a habit. My advice? Don’t wait until you are 40:-)

by 4estru on Mar 11, 2010 10:38 PM EST reply actions