The Floyd Factor
by Chief Commissaire on Mar 9, 2010 7:26 PM EST
68 comments
News that Floyd Landis has signed on with the the Bahati Foundation Pro Cycling Team is certain to send shockwaves through the domestic peloton.
Landis had been rumored to be a part of Rock Racing for 2010, until the team failed to land a UCI license. There was quiet speculation that he might sign on with a lower-level U.S. continental team – and perhaps even the amateur Yahoo! cycling team, but today's news puts all those rumors to rest.
One burning question remains – will Landis' presence on the team be enough to earn the Bahati Foundation team a spot in this year's Amgen Tour of California? Let the speculation begin....
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Well
I would have to know what the competition is. Certainly the ATOC wasn’t concerned with having Floyd there last year. The question is whether Bahati Foundation is better than the other teams available. And I certainly wouldn’t count on Landis tilting that decision much. I mean, is the guy in shape? What exactly has he been doing?
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
ah OK
Obviously I haven’t kept up.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
According to VeloNews...
“He (Landis) won the time trial at the Tour of Bahamas in January, he got second at the local Boulevard Road Race in San Diego, and he placed second overall at the Callville Bay Classic in Nevada, where he donated his prize money to charity.”
by Chief Commissaire on Mar 9, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
I hope his presence doesn't detract from what the
Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of birds. Louis J. Helle, Jr.
If there is a Floyd factor
I think it has to be considered negative now. He did nothing last year to redeem himself. I can’t figure out why the Bahati Foundation team would make this move.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Just a guess
They obviously don’t want to own his past or his record from last year. But a fresh start? not the worst move if Landis has genuinely shown them that he’s deserving. The important considerations involved in something like this are all out of view for me though. I’ll be interested to hear what they say.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
Even with Landis, I'm not sure they have the stuff to get into AToC...
As much as Bahati would like that seeing as he is from SoCal and his mission is oriented there, other than Nathan O’Neil…who do they really have?
Sure Landis can climb and TT but only if he is really back and not drinking a 6-pack every day. They have Hilton Clarke, who is a better stage race sprinter than Rashaan. They have a few other climbers and sprinters in Matty Rice, Jason Donald and Corey Collier but they are not the cream of the crop. Something special will have to happen to see them get a place over other teams.
Sort of on the same line Chris is taking...
I think last year the ToC took, what, 8 non-PT teams? So I will guess that it will be similar this year. So what is the competition for those 8 plus or minus, slots? I am in the dark too (and the website doesn’t have teams listed yet) but I’ll bet someone here has heard some rumors, including which PT teams are racing.
Well BMC and Cervelo will be there so that is two non PT spots gone...
I think the confirmed PT teams are Shack, Liguigas, Garmin andSaxo so far plus probably QuickStep, HTC-Columbia and Rabobank…maybe
Non PT teams other than the 2 above will most likely be Spidertech/Planet Energy, Bissell, United Healthcare, Jamis-Sutter Home, Kelly Benefits and Team Type 1. SO unless I am wrong on Planet Energy, I think that the spots will be all taken up.
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 10, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, they are a lock, whoops. They are sponsoring one of the stages so take out Planet Energy I guess for 8 continental teams.
Or maybe another one of them gets the axe.
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 10, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Coming Soon...
…is my annual Amgen Tour of California speculation thread. For those of you not familiar with the way selection is made, one of the UCI rules (in the category the race is in) requires that at least half of the field be U.S.-registered teams. So it doesn’t matter how many are ProTour, pro-continental, domestic, etc., just that half (probably eight or nine teams this year) are American.
by Chief Commissaire on Mar 10, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Jelly Belly has usually been invited as well, right?
There are many teams in the running to want a spot. I’d love to see ToC’s long list.
I'm ready for this road season to wrap up. Bring on Cross!
Jelly Belly
Jelly Belly sponsors the race, so it would appear the team would be a part of the field again this year.
by Chief Commissaire on Mar 13, 2010 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
lets see, did any of those guys win a TdF, P-N, ATOC, or ToM?
Not to be cocky, I just thought possibly that might have something to do with it.
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 10, 2010 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
They are going to invite a bunch of conti teams no matter what and most of them would never dream of winning those races.
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 10, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
that was my point
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 10, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
There is much more to the North American Road Racing Calendar then just the AToC
I wish Landis all the best this year.
Oh yeah but AToC is one of the only races they will have to fight for a place at...
but hopefully he improves this year.
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 10, 2010 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
the fact that
the ATOC competes with the Giro on this years calendar should be an asset to Bahati’s chances of securing an invite.
As for the “why” questions above, my two cents would be that Bahati’s chances of earning the nod from ATOC would be negligible without him. It can only help the race to have him, regardless of how he does, given the exposure and press that will inevitably be generated.
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
When he has been to major stage races, he has usually done horrendous and he probably wouldn't be the leader for the sprints.
that would be Hilton CLarke
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 10, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
"HORRENDOUS"??!? are we talking about the same guy here?
I don’t know what you mean by “major” stage races, but….the TdF is pretty big, right? Even the Tour of California and Paris-Nice aren’t exactly minor, especially in the context of this thread (which IS the ATOC). In fact the Tour of Missouri drew a lot of ProTour A-list talent as well, and our boy Floyd bagged all 4 of these races. As for sprinting, I don’t recall ever hearing Landis’ name in the context of “sprinting” discussion, I mean, since when do sprinters win “major” stage races?? The idea of “who Bahati would have to contest sprints in the ATOC” is honestly, IMHO, a thread not even worth posting…I mean, talk about a non-event!? Hilton Clark??? Now there’s a household name!! I sure hope the promoters arent counting on him to draw the big crowds!
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 10, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I'm talking about Bahati and not Landis...
You said it would help the race no matter what, regardless how he does. I was saying that he would probably get time cut on the mountain stages and he would not serve any purpose for him being there except PR.
It seems like you didn’t know who I was talking about there because I know Floyd would be there if they got an invite but you have to see if he is in shape and even then he would be competing with Nathan O’Neil for leadership, dude. And Floyd did not win Missouri btw. I’m sure there is no doubt that Floyd might still draw a big crowd but he doesn’t matter when there are guys there that can beat him into the ground and ride circles around him.
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 10, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously I have to concede the Missouri issue,
but at least realize that it was a brain fart so to speak, I am pretty sure you know I meant Georgia (which incidently is better on a palmares than Missouri anyway). As for whether or not he’ll be in shape….since when is such subjective pessimism of what a riders fitness “might” be in three months time EVER a factor in deciding if a proven champion should be invited? You are far better off arguing the merits of his team’s overall ability to contribute to the race as a whole, given the limited depth and experience, but it’s really just adolescent of you to submit the notion that he’ll suddenly loose all sense of his superior wealth of experience, and show up drunk and fat. He’s paid his dues, long before the doping issue, and few pros scheduled to be there (ATOC) can match the substantial success he’s attained. He’s certainly no fluke, he just doesn’t typify traditional profile of a protour pro. I just think its ridiculous to suggest that considering the passion he has for the sport (look at the hell he’s endured yet still has his head up enough to continue to compete, all the while broadcasting (in action) the refusal to surrender his legacy to humiliation – compare that to all of the pros that claim innocence after a positive, then retire from the sport without a fight. I personally don’t care if he was guilty, either way, he’s suffered enough and paid dearly, so he at the very least deserves the opportunity to fail in California in May, allow him to bear the burden of beating the odds.
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 10, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Granted, Landis has been subjected to hell
But . . . he was given an immense opportunity last year . . . and ROYALLY screwed it up by showing up at races out-of-shape and nowhere near the condition he was in when he rode for Mercury, much less US Postal.
When your sponsors remove you from a team that was created for you, that suggests quite a bit.
he's got a new team
so he gets another chance.
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 10, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Another chance?
If he showed signs of being competitive at the ATOC level (i.e. good form that was even vaguely recent), then sure, give him a chance. Or if he was on a team that fit at this level, then sure, give him a chance despite the poor form. But neither is the case.
His wins from several years ago are not entirely meaningless now… but damn close.
Cycling will always be a beautiful sport no matter how many people disgrace it.--Christian Vande Velde
There's enough evidence that he
has corrected whatever mistakes were made in last year’s prep.
From earlier in this thread:
According to VeloNews… <strong<em>>"He (Landis) won the time trial at the Tour of Bahamas in January, he got second at the local Boulevard Road Race in San Diego, and he placed second overall at the Callville Bay Classic in Nevada, where he donated his prize money to charity."
“
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 10, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Those are nice enough results...
but IMO not strong credentials for this kind of race. In fact I’d argue that he would be rushing his comeback by tackling a strong international field this early. If he’s going to make it back, a year or so of kicking butt in U.S. races won’t hurt him.
Cycling will always be a beautiful sport no matter how many people disgrace it.--Christian Vande Velde
TT of the Tour of the Bahamas
A Mr. January performance, evidence?, that’s funny.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
I enjoy the comical element you highlighted, but...
you don’t win a TT against a field of pros, then 2nds in a crit and a RR by being drunk, fat and otherwise out of fitness. I don’t suggest that he’s ready to drop Tomke on the Koppenberg in 3 weeks, but surely he could be ready to be competitive in the ATOC in May.
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 11, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
A field of pros? Huh.
Second & third where guys from non-UCI team Holowesko. Top ten:
1 Floyd Landis Unattached 2 Taylor Shelden Vmg/felt 3 Caleb Fairly Vmg/felt 4 Christian Parrett Inferno Racing Llc 5 Cory Scott Endorphin Fitness 6 Andrew Barker Team 5280 Magazine 7 Marc Warner Team Nature's Path/3 Sports 8 Peter Salon Vmg/felt 9 Victor Herrera ZMotion Racing Team 10 Thacker Reeves Matrix Cycling Club
I think that win was on talent alone and maybe from not drinking too heavily the night before. He got spanked in the road race the next day.
oh YEAH? Well, well....
THOSE guys all had teamates, Floyd was….. “isolated”, yeah! Besides, The Thacker Reeves Matrix Cycling Club has some Cat IVs that should really be Cat IIIs, they get my vote for TdF wildcard.
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 11, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Thacker Reeves
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 11, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
dude . . .
Currently, Pat McCarty . . . who got screwed because of Landis’s f-ups, rides for Matrix.
Besides Reeves was riding for Felt/Holowesko this year . . .
But . . . picking on Thacker is really in poor taste. He was involved in a SERIOUS car accident last week and is recovering from major surgery. From txbra forum a couple of days ago: “My buddy saw him in the hospital today – They had to fuse 4 of his vertebrea nd he’s hopped up on pain meds but he is in good spirits and is beyond motivated to get healed up and back on the bike. He will likley be unable to ride outdoors until the end of the year.”
Saw that thing about Thacker and it is terrible
but at least Garmin/Holowesko is going to stand by him and keep a slot open for him when/if he returns. He is a solid young racer who could develop into something.
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 11, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
"Picking on"?
What are you talking about? I accidently included his name in the copy/paste, that’s why I included the “reply” with the “strike” through his name (you know, indicating that it was a m-i-s-t-a-k-e). I know nothing about him, other than that he’s a lucky bastard (hopped up on pain meds). As for his accident, that’s a real tragedy and all, but s*&$ happens to people every day (in fact as we speak, I’m mending compound fractures to my tibia and radius as a result of a gnarly crash and a 30ft fall that followed, yet still can’t hold a candle to you when it comes to being overly sensitive) – life goes on dude, you’re going to be alright, and so will Thacker and Pat. Now go have some pudding and a mint.
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 11, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Actually this is irrelevant without the times
He beat Zabriskie’s course record without using a TT bike, though I’m not sure if there was a not TT bike rule.
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 11, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
And I beat Christian Parrett as a Cat 3 a few years ago.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
good point, he must REALLY suck.
"Oooh God...if there IS one, save my soul...if I HAVE one." -Eugen Weber
by Koppenberg34 on Mar 11, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe if Team Bahati doesn't get invited
International master hacker Floyd can pull a “Ferris Bueller” on the ToC mainframe and change the invite list?
Interesting...
So far I would say neither, but I could definitely see him becoming a Shoeless Joe.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
To say he's shoeless joe means he's illiterate,
and he’s at least literate enough to know the french incorrectly labeled his urine and/or test results over in the tour dee frayance (pronounced as Roll says it).
But I digress – the dude’s bitter, and perhaps rightly so.
BTW, Rico is more like John Daly – wasted talent.
by JustJoshinYa on Mar 10, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
So Ricco is fat then?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Wasted talent?
the man had some tremendous hooters commercials!
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
And there's another thing...
bet Ricco has never been to a Hooters. So, so much for your comparison jf w/ a bunch of numbers.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
hooters seems like his kinda place...
especially with that flame filled poster and all.
(signed “bunch of numbers”) :)
by JustJoshinYa on Mar 10, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Bravo MC
That’s about it.
Smirk at Prince Valiant from the Chevron station all you want, I do, but John Daly has his epiphanies. That’s all we can ask of Floyd now.
by Mr 60 Percent on Mar 10, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
I am leading towards Daly if improvement isn't seen...
soon he will have beer in his water bottles and will keep a pack of Marlboro’s in his jersey pocket.
by Vlaanderen90 on Mar 10, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, time for the undisputedly dispositive comment:
Floyd’s always been a fighter w/ a chip on his shoulder but the doping allegation was a chip too big for even Floyd the Fighter to shoulder. As a result, he became depressed, which helps explain his apparently poor perspective on racing last year (too much drinking, otherwise unfocused, etc.) and the poor results. Plus, perhaps he was still adjusting to the artificial hip (comments to the effect that he was 100% healed notwithstanding). Remember that reality and the comments his sponsors and/or pride require him to make aren’t necessarily consistent with each other.
Whether or not his team gets invited to ATOC, perhaps last year’s results, some time to mull them over, and the debacle w/ Rock Racing have helped him refocus and recommit such that he can achieve at least some of the success that his talent suggests he can secure.
Thinking hard - really hard - of something witty to say....
How lawyerly of you.
There are certainly other speculations that can be drawn to explain his poor results, so I know you jest.
Can it still be called a “doping allegation”? The way I saw it was that his lawyers were trying to get him off on a technicality. Sure these ‘technicalities’ are important in many courts, but these sports arbitration thingies are a very different animal.
And since he stuck to his guns with the denial and saw it all the way through and decided to make a comeback, I think he should have made a better impression. All kinds of excuses can be made about why he performed so poorly (his I believe was improper/over training) but he owed it to himself to get the comeback show a little better.
I hope he gets another chance, but if he does and blows it, he won’t be serving his cause any.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Actually, I'd like for cyclingrush to be correct
BUT . . . the “I believe Floyd” camp argue that none of the tests were actually positive.
Their main argument is that the results were so flawed that no one could reasonably use them as evidence of doping.
And, thus, they see what’s happened to Landis as a major abuse of justice.
I can certainly agree that Landis has suffered. I’m not qualified, however, to judge on the merits of the test results. And unfortunately, very few people actually are . . .
And a guy like me who uses words like "thingies"...
takes me out of the list of the “very few” people who are qualified.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
"Thingies" is one of the best words ever!
I was trying to avoid the issue of his guilt/innocence in my post above. I was just trying to make the point that the whole process and the end result dealt a huge blow to the guy.
I agree that he would’ve helped his prospects immensely by being more focused last year. C’est la vie, right?
Hopefully he can redeem himself this year. We’ll see…..
Thinking hard - really hard - of something witty to say....
by Cyclingrush on Mar 12, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
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