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Lies, Damned Lies, and Liège: majope's numbers-driven picks for LBL

Lbl_mediumDid Andy Schleck really win Liege-Bastogne-Liege last year? Convince me. Only 2 other winners in the past 30 years have been under 24, and the one previous to the Schlecklet was Evgeni Berzin waaaay back in 1994 (Steven Rooks is the other, in 1983). Since 1980, the average age of the winner has been 28.05, and indeed 6 of the 30 winners have been 28 (more or less—2 turned 28 within a month of their win). There's also a cluster of 31-year-olds of the same size, so 40% of the past 30 winners have been about 28 or about 31. Why those ages in particular? My theory: the 28-year-olds win because they're at their physical peak (see ursula's 27.62 post). Hard to beat someone when they're at their best...unless you're a few years older, have raced just that many more editions of the race to get vital experience, and are just a couple years past your prime. In other words, about 31.

So who fits among tomorrow’s favorites? Damiano Cunego at 28.58 and Philippe Gilbert at 27.75 years of age are closest to the average and the 28-cluster. Two of Jens’ Looney Longshots are also in winning age-clusters: Vaugrenard is 28 and Fedrigo 31. Hey, maybe Jens is onto something!

Age range of winners since 1980: 22.67-32.92. Favorites/dark horses currently outside of range: Evans (but only by 3 months), Freire, Sastre, Kloden, Horner, Van Garderen

Weightier issues considered below the fold.

Star-divide

La Doyenne is a hard, hilly race, so it’s not surprising that weight seems to play a significant role: riders have to lug their bodies up those climbs. I was able to track down [reported] height and weight stats for the winners of 19 of the past 30 editions. That’s not a huge sample, but it includes every winner from 1993 on (plus two earlier winners, Hinault in 1980 and van der Poel in 1988), so it should indicate something about recent winners.

Physiques vary considerably, but the heaviest of the 19 winners tops out at a mere 70 kg. For contrast, the cobbled-classics guys Tom Boonen, Fabian Cancellara, and Thor Hushovd are all listed at over 80 kg, at least a full 10 kg heavier. The average weight of an LBL winner is 64 kg, and the favorite who claims that spot-on is Cadel Evans. Andy Schleck is the 2nd-closest at 65 kg.

Weight range of winners: 58 kg-70 kg. Favorites/dark horses outside range: Van Garderen (70.5 kg), Hesjedal (72 kg). Vaugrenard is right at the top of the weight range at 70 kg. But see below for notes on their BMI…

Because height is also going to matter: Evans’s 64 kg is going to be relatively heavier than Schleck’s 65 because Cuddles is 13 cm shorter than the Schlecklet. So let’s look at BMI (Body Mass Index), which is supposed to assess healthy weight limits (caveat: it’s not that accurate for athletes in general, whose excess of muscle tends to be read as fat in the tables—but this is cycling. Excess of muscle, at least above the waist, is not usually a problem). Andy’s BMI is 18.8, the lowest of any of the winners we have data for. Cadel’s is 21.4. While there have been 7 winners who’ve sported a BMI of 21.4 or higher, the only ones from the 2000s have been Danilo Di Luca, Alexandr Vinokourov, and Davide Rebellin. Apparently, it’s difficult to get denser bodies over those hills without a little help.

The average BMI for the winner is 20.7. Closest among the favorites? Damiano Cunego is exactly 20.7, if his reported weight on the UCI Pro Tour site is correct (it’s given as 59 kg there, but 65 kg on various other sites—the higher weight would increase his BMI to 22.8). Maxime Monfort, also on the start list but not usually among the favorites for tomorrow, is also 20.7. Phillippe Gilbert and Benoit Vaugrenard are very close, straddling the range at 20.9 and 20.5 respectively. Gilbert, Cunego, Vaugrenard…we’ve heard those names before, haven’t we?

For comparison, BMI of the most recent winners of Paris-Roubaix. Cancellara: 23.1. Boonen: 22.2. Stuart O’Grady: 23.6. Magnus Backstedt: 25.2. Every single one is above the BMI of any of the 19 LBL winners we have data for. Physical type matters a lot in these races, and Stuey is what helps convince me of this—he might be considerably shorter and lighter than other recent P-R winners, but his BMI is similar.

BMI range of LBL winners: 18.8-22.0 Favorites/dark horses outside of range: Gerrans (barely—22.1), Fedrigo (22.3—sorry, Jens!). Frank Schleck is below the lower end of the range, depending on which weight you accept for him. He is usually listed the same as Andy, 65-67 kg, but admitted to 61 kg in an interview after last year’s Tour (Andy, on the other hand, claimed not to have lost weight during the race and said he weighed 65). But given that Andy provides the lowest BMI of any recent winner, if Frank weighs anything less than his brother he’s outside the winning range.

Note that Van Garderen may be just slightly heavy for LBL, but his BMI of 20.6 is almost perfectly average for the race. Hesjedal is a tall guy (1.9 m), so his BMI is also well within range at 19.9.

The Schlecklet Effect: Most of the riders who are pegged as favorites or dark horses for this year’s LBL fit comfortably within the ranges of previous winners, including guys who haven’t been mentioned yet like Contador, J-Rod, and Valverde (of course—he’s won it twice before). Gilbert, Cunego, and Vaugrenard (who I wouldn't even have looked at if he hadn't been a Looney Longshot) are my picks, though, based on the numbers as they currently stand. We must, though, consider the Schlecklet Effect. Not only was Andy last year the youngest winner in over 15 years, but he was also the tallest since at least 1993. And his BMI was a full .5 lower than any other winner we’ve got stats for. When somebody like that comes along, suddenly the ranges need to be adjusted and the averages get skewed. But that doesn’t mean we should totally ignore the weight of history. Or at least its BMI.

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the truth sometimes hurts!

thanks for putting that together, really cool read!

by rowyco on Apr 24, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

BMI vs power-weight ratio

Majope, this is great analysis — but I’m skeptical of the predictive power of BMI. I can’t see a strong reason biomechanically why extra height should compensate for more weight per se – unless it translates into more power.

I guess the statistics aren’t available but I expect that if you could tabulate power-weight (kW / kg at threshold) ratios for past winners you would see a very high correlation. In the absence of this information maybe BMI is a good proxy?

by Grant Chamberlain on Apr 24, 2010 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Good question.

It would be great if we could get these guys’ wattage, but I think you’re right that it’s not available. It seems sort of natural that skinny guys go uphill better than heavier guys—but when you get right down to it, what are the mechanics of that? If Andy Schleck and Cadel Evans weigh roughly the same, should it matter than Andy is taller, and therefore skinnier?

Is it the distribution of muscle over his frame—less weight to carry per cm of height? (I actually calculated that first, but went with BMI instead because I figured it probably was taking things into effect that I didn’t understand.) That shorter guys of similar weight might be carrying a higher percentage of body fat? Longer legs more efficient as pistons in moving a similar amount of weight?

Anybody have some thoughts on this?

If Cavendish was a diplomat, the third world war would have started a long time ago--Brian Holm

by majope on Apr 24, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someday

cycling will be like baseball and on the back of Mark Cavendish’s card will be his height, weight, palmares and watts/kg, by year.

"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen

by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 24, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cav would be the last person to allow his numbers on his card.

He hates that shit.

If Cavendish was a diplomat, the third world war would have started a long time ago--Brian Holm

by majope on Apr 24, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah and all the kids will be trying to find the rookie Eddy Merckx...

It would be cool to have trading cards like that though…I would have gotten into cycling WAY earlier judging by the boxes of baseball cards I have stashed at the parent’s house.

Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!

by Vlaanderen90 on Apr 24, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bikemon

Or yu-go-slo.

The cyclists need to have special abilities. And there need to be trap cards.

by R Mc on Apr 24, 2010 9:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Coming next season?

We have to keep expanding the PdC empire, now that we’ve got kits and the VDS app, trading cards are the logical next step!

"To therefore answer your basic question what color socks should I wear, I issue the bold statement wear white shoes." - King of Style

by omnevelnihil on Apr 25, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep...

I reckon your analysis shows pretty clearly that LBL is a race that favours riders with the best power-weight ratios compared with say Paris-Roubaix which favours raw power. Andy is taller than Cadel but he might not be “skinnier” in terms of body fat % – which will have a big influence on power-weight ratio. A lot of great climbers (eg. Sastre) are at the shorter end but I bet they have fantastic power-weight ratios.

So my bet is that if you focus heavily on BMI you will tend to over-estimate the chances of taller guys vs. shorter guys.

To test this, from the data you collected to calculate BMI, is there much correlation between the raw heights of past winners? I will go out on a limb and predict there will be a lot of “shortish” winners (relative to Andy anyway).

by Grant Chamberlain on Apr 25, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm hoping you're right... Cuddles or Gerro for the win:)

And welcome..

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Apr 25, 2010 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am... what gave me away? ;)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Apr 25, 2010 5:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

IIRC

Every additional inch (or cm) increases a person’s surface area by a power of two but his/her mass by a power of three. This includes lungs. So, other things being equal, if rider A is two cm shorter than rider B, rider B has added more mass but relatively less surface area, including to his lungs, meaning he can’t take in as much oxygen as the shorter guy.

Bigger riders can generate more power over short periods because they have more mass (f=m*a) but suffer over longer periods of sustained activity because of the above.

I think that’s right.

I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.

by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 25, 2010 4:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree...

That’s a much better way to say what I was trying to say!

by Grant Chamberlain on Apr 25, 2010 5:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

also

I think power is more closely related to muscle cross-section area than muscle volume – as this area also goes with the square of height a taller rider will generally have lower watts/kg (though there absolute power will be higher)

by thebongolian on Apr 25, 2010 6:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Geezus Haitch Effin

Don’t you have anything better to do Saturday mornings? Dishes? Laundry? Write a novel? Sleep in.
All those numbers hurt my head.
Valvpiti will win.
That sucks.

by fancan on Apr 25, 2010 1:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Nope.

He just turned 27 in December.

If Cavendish was a diplomat, the third world war would have started a long time ago--Brian Holm

by majope on Apr 25, 2010 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great analysis

It would seem Cancellara has a lot of work to do before he’d be physically capable of winning a race like this.

http://www.irishpeloton.com/

by irishpeloton on Apr 25, 2010 4:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

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