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Le Tour: Yellow Jersey Preview and Power Poll


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By far the biggest prize in cycling: race for the best time in the Tour de France. It's so big that many riders will use the rest of the cycling season, including many worthy races, as training for this one three week jaunt around France (and Netherlands and Belgium this time).  And post-Tour? Often it's just recovery time and/or time to rest on your laurels if you gained any at Le Tour. We are talking BIG here. 

So how's the race shaping up? Weird. Just plain weird. The top of the power poll is boring as there's a stone cold lock for #1 and close to a lock for #2, but after that there's a mess of riders who have legit chances for a podium or high finish. How many you ask? I count nine riders (after the top two) who can make a good case for a podium spot in Paris. There's another eight who realistically can see a top five spot by the end and nineteen more riders who can make the top ten if things break right for them. Add all of them up and you get... uh... thirty-six riders who can make a case for at least a top ten place. 

 So it will be fun to see the comments below saying I ranked so-and-so way to low or way to high. The reality is that there's this huge chunk of riders and some of them will seem ranked way too low at first but I can't justify moving them up higher yet. I guess that why they do this race. 

As with Chris and the Green Jersey power poll, I have some criteria that I use to rank the riders. The scales for the different criteria are different because some aspects of winning this year's yellow jersey are more important than others. 

Here's the criteria I am using to rank them pre-Tour. It's a little tricky as there are different scales for each rating:

Climbing: On a scale of 1-20 with 20 being the best. 

Time trialing: 1-10 scale here as there is only the one big but it is at the end and could move a rider up or down a couple notches.

Team support: 1-5 scale again. This is actually a very tricky measure because team support is of different importance to different riders. Also, to some degree I agree with Cadel Evans saying that this year's course makes teams less important.  (At least for the GC battle.) I'm not saying he's completely right-I don't really know as I am not in the peloton-but he should know more than anybody when team support would be more or less important, no?

Special circumstances: This is a penalty of one or two points I put in for things like riding this year's Giro or riding the Tour for the first time or leading their team for the first time. Basically  these riders, wonderful men all and their mother's love them very much, have something to prove beyond what a veteran like Lance or Menchov need to prove. Hopefully that will make sense when we get to the specific riders.

Add up the numbers and you get a score. The higher the better.  You will notice though that several riders will have the same scores but one is ranked higher than others.  

Intangibles: This is not part of the scoring system but some teams and riders have issues beyond pure ability and I will note them here. 

On to the rankings!

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For this pre-Tour power poll, I've broken down the riders into four groups which will be self-explanatory:

Group A: Riders who are in contention to win


1. Alberto Contador, Astana

Climbing: 20
Time trialing: 10
Team: 4
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 34

Intangibles: Not much negative here unless you really think Vino will attack him. In that case I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya.

Comments: Notice that The Accountant (Contador is translated as "Accountant") is the only one in the "Riders with a chance to win the race" section. That's cause it's his race to lose. No one is better than him at climbing or time trialing or prepping for the race (though a couple are equals in one category or another). At age 27 1/2 he's just entering the prime of his career.  He's gonna get better folks. He can't be beaten if he brings his A game and there's little doubt that he will. 

An interesting side note is that Bicycling magazine's Whit Yost says that Bert's Astana team is the strongest team in the Tour this year. Yeah, I don't buy that either and along with noticing that he/they have Radio Shack as the #2 team and this is an American magazine one wonders about the psychological angle here: Lance as underdog! But in doing so, Yost does note one important thing: Astana is totally focused on Contador. That was not the case in Contador's two previous wins and the only Grand Tour win that he's had where that was the case was the 2008 Vuelta where he blew away the field (other than teammate Levi) and in doing so (for VDS players) earned a record for a single race of 1400 VDS points. And it should be noted that the Astana team, maybe not #1 is no worse than, well here are my top rankings:

1. Radio Shack

2. Saxo Bank

3. Astana

4. Liquigas

5. Rabobank

These five teams are totally focused on the Yellow Jersey (well except for Oscarito and even he will do some pulling in the flats if a Rabobank rider is in the lead) and all are good, meaning that all can deliver victory for their leader if said leader is in position.

As I said, the top of this ranking is boring. Bert is a cut above the rest. Note I am not guaranteeing victory because he can lose it. He can crash or he can bonk or he can forget to get to the start of the time trial on time. But barring an accident he will stroll down the Champs d'elysses in yellow for a third time. 

 

Riders who should podium

2. Andy Schleck, Saxo Bank

Climbing: 19
Time trialing: 6
Team: 5
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 30

Intangibles:  There's that new team thingy.

Comments: In putting Schlecket second, I am saying that his prior results this year meant little; that his form at the Tour will have little resemblance to what we've previously seen. That will be true with several riders on this list. I fully expect to see Andy in great form.

That said, there's the team problem, specifically he and his brother Frank riding for a new (or another) team next year. How might this affect Andy's and Frank's chances? I think not much-as long as things go well with the team. However if they encounter problems (which will happen if they are not diplomatic enough), its possible that the team may not help them like they have in the past. I'm speculating of course but to me this situation could get very fluid very quickly. Or not. But it bears keeping an eye on. I think the competition in the top 10 is stronger this year than last. I'd like to guarantee him the second step on the podium in Paris but if the team thingy gets wonky the likes of Wiggins, Menchov, J-Rod, Sam San, Kreuziger and Basso, Cadel and a Radio Shacker (which one?) could all pass Andy and brother Frank. Note that this is a very different problems than last year's Astana/Bert/Lance soap opera.  Andy and Frank have to keep the trust and interest of their teammates. 

Here's a scenario: Cancellara wins the prologue and extends his lead on the cobbled stage three. They head into the Alps with Contador actually having a minute lead on the other GC guys. Obviously Fabian won;t hold that lead to Paris and in the past he would not hesitate to help out his teammates when the first mountain came into view. But if the Schlecks are pissing of the team in any way perhaps Cancellara tries to hold onto the yellow jersey for a stage or two in the Alps. Perhaps also he doesn't help much in the Pyrenees leading up to the final time trial. That's a nightmare Cancellara scenario for the Schlecks and we could see other signs: the Sorensens and Jens! going stage hunting for instance. The Schlecks are gonna have to reach out to their teammates some I think in a way they haven't before. 

Finally, notice that Andy is the only one in this category, just like Bert is the only one in the first. Andy is just better than the next group of riders unless they pull out a great ride. It's doubtful that two of them can do that and, along with Contador, deny him a podium spot.  

Riders eyeing the podium

3. Denis Menchov, Rabobank

Climbing: 18
Time trialing: 7
Team: 4
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 29

Intangibles:  Russian rider on a Dutch team? With a Dutch GC hope also on the same team?

Comments: Menchov is another rider who has had a quiet year though he places second at both Murcia and Romandie and showed some life with a fifth at the Dauphine's long TT.  The thing about Denis is that he's the third most accomplished Grand Tour rider in the race (after Armstrong and Contador) having won three Grand Tours (two Vueltas and one Giro) plus he has a few top five finishes at the Tour. When he's on his game he's a very serious contender.

I do wonder about support for him if Gesink does well initially. With no TT to separate Menchov from Gesink until the mountains are over its possible that the team may want Gesink to take the leaders saddle if Gesink climbs as he is capable of. But Menchov is no slouch going uphill too. 

4. Bradley Wiggins, Sky

Climbing: 15
Time trialing: 10
Team: 4
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 29

Intangibles:  The Team Sky mojo.

Comments:  Prepping for a Grand Tour is half the battle. (I have no idea if that is true but it sounds good doesn't it?). Seriously though, all the major contenders have to be into serious Tour-prep by two months ago. My guess is that the Sky management have done all sorts of things with Bradley to he can peak at the right time: they really are serious at winning this race. I don't think they will but I can imagine a podium spot and I'd be shocked if he fell out of the top five.

One other comment. Under special circumstances I do not give Wiggins a penalty for riding the Giro-which I do for Basso, Sastre, Vinokourov, and Evans.  It looked to me that Wiggins did not put in the effort to win the Giro and so expended less energy than the others.

5. Samuel Sanchez

Climbing: 18
Time trialing: 7
Team: 4
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 29

Intangibles: Nothing to report.

Comments: I like Samu on these climbs. He'll drop off the front early enough but will just shift into a good rhythm and keep in loose contact with the leaders. That and a decent time trial will have him sniffing the podium. It will be interesting to see how Euskaltel supports him as normally they freelance a lot. You got Txurruka and Martinez going off on various climbs when they could be supporting Samu.

6. Frank Schleck, Saxo Bank

Climbing: 19
Time trialing: 5
Team: 5
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 29

Intangibles: There's that new team thingy again.

Comments: He knows how to peak for this race and the main reason he is not ranked higher is because his brother is and Frank is more supporting Andy than riding for himself. Like his brother he has to deal with the possible unraveling of his team which he and his brother are causing. As a result his ranking could take a big dive this year.

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7. Roman Kreuziger, Liquigas

Climbing: 17
Time trialing: 7
Team: 5
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 29

Intangibles: Looks real good.

Comments: Hmm. Top 10 feels like a very safe prediction for Roman.  Top five is very possible depending on how things break with other riders. I don't see a possible split team with Liquigas as he and Basso will help each other.  I very much liked his Suisse prep race too: 16th overall; not yet in peak form. He's my surprise podium pick.

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8. Cadel Evans, BMC

Climbing: 17
Time trialing: 10
Team: 2
Special circumstances: -1 for riding the Giro.
Total score: 28

Intangibles: Nothing to report

Comments: This is the one rider who I think could beat Contador at his own game. Not will-could. It does not help that he rode the Giro. Evans will need a quiet first two weeks, looking to conserve as much energy as possible (don't attack: suck wheels instead) and work to stay in the top three heading into the time trial.  Easier said than done.

As an aside, take a look at the riders I have listed here. The sad thing right now with this group is that there are hardly any rivalries between them. In part that's because several of them don't take any other races very seriously. But its also because they often don't target the same races. This, I think is a problem for a number of the riders because they don't really learn what it takes to beat some of the other guys.

To illustrate what I'm getting at, take the one pair that is the biggest rivalry: Evans and Contador. They have targeted several of the same races in the past, most recently La Fleche Wallonne where Evans played a perfect game in beating Contador at the line.  Now if instead of Evans that had been oh Samuel Sanchez or Ivan Basso or Andy Schleck I doubt they would have beaten Bert except perhaps by luck. They just don't know Bert that well; Cadel does though.  (Lulu Sanchez does too.) Most riders get so caught up in carefully measuring their own performance that they forget that the race is not just against the clock but against other riders. True, older riders do learn this slowly. Lance knows this obviously. Mick Rogers I think knows this judging from his California win.  The best team leaders know this and it separates them from say Andreas Kloden.

9. Ivan Basso, Liquigas

Climbing: 18
Time trialing: 6
Team: 5
Special circumstances: -1
Total score: 28

Intangibles:  Nothing to report.

Comments: Ivan, Cadel, Vino: how well will the Giro big boys do? I know I have Cadel ranked above Ivan but I keep thinking that Basso will turn out better with that relentless grinding style he has. I think they will both get dropped in the big mountains.  Basso will keep grinding away though and wind up in the top 10.

10. Joaquin Rodriguez, Katusha

Climbing: 19
Time trialing: 6
Team: 4
Special circumstances: -1 See Intangibles.
Total score: 28

Intangibles:  This is his first Tour.

Comments: I talked about him in the KOM preview but I see no reason for him to chase the spotty jersey when he'll be in contention for the GC podium al the way until at least the last time trial. J-Rod, Contador, and both Schlecks should be the four best climbers in this race. 

11. Levi Leipheimer, Radio Shack

Climbing: 17
Time trialing: 9
Team: 2
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 28

Intangibles: Not a team leader.

Comments: I don't take his non-winning of the Tour of California as an alarming signal that he's lost it as I presume he'll be in better shape for the Tour than for Cali. But we'll see. He'll be working for Lance (like Kloden) but if Lance falters he's the presumed second option. Age, of course is now a problem. He's 36, soon to be 37. I can't see him winning the Tour but he's the most likely of the lower ranked riders here to podium. He knows how to peak in the third week and the time trial course suits him to a T.

Riders Looking For a Top 5 Place

12. Michael Rogers, HTC-Columbia

Climbing: 16
Time trialing: 9
Team: 2
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 27

Intangibles: Nothing to report.

Comments: Minimize his chances at your peril, says I. What I am hoping is that he goes on the attack on stage 9 so that he can fully exorcise his demons from that crash three years ago. The main problem he has is a lack of support to the point where he may be asked to help Cavendish.

13. Lance Armstrong, Radio Shack

Climbing: 15
Time trialing: 6
Team: 5
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 26

Intangibles: Hey! I'm not writing Remembrance of Things Past here!

Comments: I kinda doubt that it will happen but if that US investigation bears fruit during the Tour and gets released, Radio Shack could be totally screwed and withdraw. But I doubt that will happen. That leaves Lance's age as the biggest negative to his chances and I find that said age will leave him with a top 10 placing but no higher. The attacking in the Pyrenees will get to him.

14. Andreas Klöden, Radio Shack

Climbing: 16
Time trialing: 8
Team: 2
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 26

Intangibles: Nothing to report

Comments: Klöden is probably scored too low. He has a knack for working for other riders and still pounding out a top five finish-usually. (See his 2008 season for when that didn't happen.) How does he do it? He's one of the best at not going into the red zone. He rarely blows up. He'll be working for Lance of course, but that didn't hurt him last year. He's 35 meaning that one of these years he'll drop off the Tour contenders lists but until he actually does so I hesitate to rank him low.

15. Christian Vande Velde, Garmin-Transitions

Climbing: 15
Time trialing: 7
Team: 3
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 25

Intangibles: Recovering again from a Giro crash

Comments: I keep thinking that he'll definitely slide this year but then he has experience now on how to stay in touch on the big climbs. I predict he'll end up somewhere between 8-12.

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16. Alexandre Vinokourov, Astana

Climbing: 14
Time trialing: 9
Team: 3
Special circumstances: -1 For Giro heroics
Total score: 25

Intangibles: Nothing to report.

Comments: I give about a 0% chance of Vino attacking his teammate. In fact I think he's doing everything possible to keep Bert in the Astana fold beyond this year. (Notice that there are only To Kazakhs on the team-less than what were told would happen last winter (at least three). It makes me start to wonder how Vino will be as a DS in the future and I think he could be very successful.

But how likely is it that Vino can crack the top 10? I think less than 50%. He put out big-time at the Giro and after two weeks of the Tour, when we hit the Pyrenees, Vino will fight hard but get dropped.

17. Robert Gesink, Rabobank

Climbing: 18
Time trialing: 4
Team: 3
Special Circumstances: 0
Total score: 25

Intangibles: Closing ability?

Comments: Here's what I am now wondering about Bobo: does he have problems closing out a race? There have been a few races in his career where he has been in position to win but near the end, loses:

  • 2010 Suisse Tour. This just finished and we saw how he had the lead going into the final time trial and lost. It wasn't like any other rider seized the day and blew away the field either. Bobo just had a crappy time trial and placed fifth.
  • 2010 Pais Vasco. Going into the next to last stage, Gesink was tied with Horner for second place, one second behind leader Valverde. He crashed going up the last climb and lost 50+ seconds and he wound up eighth.-
  • 2009 Amstel Gold Race. At the base of the finishing climb of this one day race, Gesink was with Kroon and Ivanov ahead of a hard charging peloton. Now of the three, Bobo is the best climber. His final placing? Third.
  • 2008 Paris-Nice. Leading that race and nearing the end of the next to last stage he had all sorts of difficulties on the decent into Cannes, falling back to fourth place as a result.

I could go on but I won't. Bobo's talent isn't a question. He's a contender to win every race he enters. He's only 24. He's also only won one race-last year's Giro dell'Emilia. Each time he loses a race its because of something that he doesn't normally do and it's usually a different thing. IMO he's a top ten talent but needs to deal with his ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Right now though compared to the rider on this list who's 25 days older-Roman Kreuziger-I would pick Roman first for my team every time.

18. Luis León Sánchez, Caisse d'Epargne

Climbing: 13
Time trialing: 9
Team: 4
Special circumstances: -1 Never lead a team before
Total score: 25

Intangibles: The team leader thing.

Comments: Ooooh. Very tough one to predict and as such most experts are not predicting him to do well. Pretty easy, right? You don't know a rider very well so naturally you talk him down. I find such thinking highly annoying and they are doing it not only with Lulu but with J-Rod too. Sticking with Lulu, he has no experience at leading a team in a Grand Tour, though at least he's ridden the Tour a couple times including snagging a couple stage wins and he has lead teams in week long stage races where he has won. He's also untested pretty much on the big climbs since he was normally working for Valverde. However, when he peaks he's a good climber and one of the best time trialists. His Suisse Tour sure looked like he was building form to me.

So to me Lulu is a wild card. I think he has the talent to be a Grand Tour winner. If so, he has the talent to secure a top 10 place here.

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19. Carlos Sastre, Cervelo Test Team

Climbing: 18
Time trialing: 5
Team: 2
Special circumstances: -1 Hard Giro workout with hurt body parts
Total score: 24

Intangibles: Injury concerns.

Comments: Sandbagging? Is he healthy or not? Beats me and the correct answer will see him in the top five or top 75.

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20. BCS #1: Jurgen Van Den Broeck, Omega Pharma Lotto

Climbing: 17
Time trialing: 6
Team: 2
Special circumstances: -1 First time leader
Total score: 24

Intangibles: Nada

Comments: No, I can't imagine this guy finishing 20th either but I can't just put him ahead of guys like Levi or Bobo or Christian at this point. But somehow he'll place higher and surprise the so-called experts.

21. Ryder Hesjedal, Garmin Transitions

Climbing: 14
Time trialing: 6
Team: 4
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 24

Intangibles: Nothing to report

Comments: Here's another wild card. He's having a career year yet no one is talking about his chances. The main question is how strong will he be in the Pyrenees.

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22. Christophe Le Mevel, Française des Jeux

Climbing: 17
Time trialing: 4
Team: 3
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 24

Intangibles: Nothing to report

Comments: Ranked way too low here. But who on the list above is definitely worse?

23. Nicholas Roche, AG2R

Climbing: 15
Time trialing: 5
Team: 3
Special circumstances: 0
Total score: 23

Intangibles: Nothing to report

Comments: Turns 26 the day of the prologue. Will finish in the top 15. Wonder what kind of offers he's been getting to change teams?

 

Other riders that Ursula throws a frickin' bone at:

Jani Brajkovic, Sandy Casar, Damiano Cunego, Francis De Greef, Jakob Fuglsang, Linus Gerdemann, Chris Horner, Vlad Karpets, Thomas Lovkvist, Maxime Monfort, Danny Moreno, Pierre Rolland, Kevin Seeldrayers (BCS #2), Rein Taaramae, Dave Zabriskie. A couple of these are more likely than the others to place in or near the top ten, but the point is any of these could.

Photos by Getty Images Sport

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Comments

Display:

Methinks you're a bit too kind when it comes to Fränk

And his climbing abilities. If Andy is a 19, then Fränk is 17.5.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 1, 2010 5:37 PM EDT reply actions  

interesting post!

quite enjoyed that. One question re: Armstrong: you write “That leaves Lance’s age as the biggest negative to his chances and I find that said age will leave him with a top 10 placing but no higher.” But last year he was almost as old as this year (I so smart), and his form wasn’t anywhere near as good…and he got onto the podium. Wouldn’t he logically be expected to do at least as well? I still don’t see where exactly he can win the Tour – i.e. where he picks up time on Contador and A. Schleck – but he does seem stronger than last year, and last year he was pretty good.

I like what you say about Astana too, obviously RS is strong but Astana has had a good year, I think they’ll continue that in the Tour.

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 1, 2010 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Good question

I thunk the competition is much tougher this year. From Wiggins, to Basso to Kreuziger to Menchov etc. there’s just a lot more riders with a real chance at the podium that 2009 and that hurts Lance’s chances. I’m not saying that he can’t repeat last year but he just has loads more competition.

And I don’t know if he’s stronger than last year. In part I am saying that because what a rider shows at the Tour is usually different then what he’s shown the two months before. (Like I upgrade Levi’s chances thinking that he’s holding more back.) But then you have the riders who are hitting the Dauphine and Suisse hard and do things like win (Brajkovic) or almost win (Gesink). So some riders will be worse relatively in the Tour than in the pre-Tour races. So I see what Lance did in the Suisse Tour and I somewhat discount it as “great form” because I thought the Suisse course was pretty easy (easy for me to say that) and how it was won, well, Frank Schleck only wins a race via a time trial in Bizarro world. So I am thinking Lance is doing well but no way am I thinking he’s better now than last year at this time.

by ursula on Jul 1, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Levi didn't look to me to be holding back in TdS

he looked to be trying in earnest and struggling. Again he may be recovering and hoping to rebound later as the Tour progresses, but I’d be surprised.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn't holding back but

He wasn’t in peak form either. There’s a difference between Levi in peak Tour form and Levi in peak California form. Big difference.

Yes, Levi was struggling at California. He was definitely trying his hardest. But he wasn’t in peak form. (Neither was Rogers; not sure about Zabriskie.)

by ursula on Jul 1, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was talking about Cali at all

TdS, he was pinching the point of his saddle off.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

wasn't

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah gotcha.

IMO Levi is very very good at peaking the third week of a Grand Tour. One of the best in fact. That third week is still four weeks awayl six weeks away during the Suisse Tour. I feel much better about levi than I do, say, Gesink.

by ursula on Jul 1, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Big shocker that I support pliny's comment.

All I can think to say is that ursula loves the age statistic and is sticking to it. What is happening on the road this year doesn’t seem to matter. A. Schleck may well show up for the Tour, but he really hasn’t shown any convincing form coming in this year, and he’s had his hardships that have interfered with training.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

How close were you last year with your guess on Armstrong?

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who the hell knows?

hehe

Seriously though, I just went back and tried to find predictions of mine. Couldn’t find many predictions at all! I’m sure he did better than I thought and honestly I took that into consideration with my poll here. But just remember I am not saying here that Lance will end up…13th. I just couldn’t find a way-yet-to put him over the guys ahead of him. Plus he’s still in a bunch of riders who are too close in ability to really sort out at this point.

Maybe stage 3 will wipe out one or two. Maybe we’ll see the Giro riders fall apart like Menchov and sastre did last year. But please, I am not panning Lance’s chances here. He can easily move up.

by ursula on Jul 1, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's happening on the road this year DOES support Ursula's comments IMO

Armstrong hasn’t looked good climbing at all this year. Certainly not better than he was climbing at the Tour last year. He had a great overall result at the TdS, but I’ve yet to see anything that supports the conclusion that he is stronger than last year.

Not saying that he hasn’t, just that it has not been on display in any of the races he’s entered. And I agree with you on Andy. Personally, I think Frank is on the form of his life and he’s the real go to man for Saxo Bank. Andy is going to play decoy this year.

by MambaFan on Jul 1, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Armstrong's build-up for the Tour has been pretty spot on from a training stand point.

Much better than last year.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I agree

I support the “better the 2nd year back” idea too. I guess what convinces me re: TdS is that he wasn’t really going for results and still got 2nd – I mean when you get 2nd on a training ride, kind of by accident, that’s pretty good. But I guess we’ll see.

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 1, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

And while I had fun watching the Nevada City crit race last year

I think you can put a little more stock on Romandie and Suisse as better prep and indicators. I keep saying I’m more impressed by last year’s performance in retrospect, and where he showed some flashes of his former abilities, I think we’ll see a bit more this year. I also suspect he’ll be a much more steady and competitive climber at this Tour. If Contador is as good as we expect him to be, then RS has to put him in some deficit the first week and hope they can somewhat contain AC in the mountains.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess you can, I'm going to continue to trust my eyes.

Nothing about Tour de Suisse gives me any confidence about his abilities in the mountains. Why you think he will be a more steady and competitive climber is beyond me since he’s not shown that skill in any race he’s entered this year. Gila? Finished 2nd last year. This year, 17th. The Bonny Dune (sp) climb at ToC? Nothing, nada after Levi made his move. Albupapass? Gapped at the top of the hill and unable (or unwilling (you take your pick)) to follow the accelerations. We don’t need to relive or revisit his prior trips into the mountains (Murcia or Criterium d’ Internationale).

Nothing about those performances support him being able to climb with a guy like Contador this month. Not hating, just calling it like I saw it. If you’ve got a different take on his year and his climbing, I’m all eyes.

by MambaFan on Jul 2, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its DeJaVoo all over again

( anybody know how to spell djv )

Ok, so not quite Mario Pantani but finishing the queen stage of the TDS with Frank Schleck is not a bad indicator ( yes he had to catch up a little on the down hill but it was just a little).

And add to that the scientific proof that he tweeted that in his pre-tour prep he was close to his record time then if that is true then its likely he is climbing well. ( Still sucking at the TT but if his 10th at the TT he will be in hunt )

by thevaro on Jul 2, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Déjà vu

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by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

He also said he was hitting his 2002 numbers last year.

I’m just calling what I am seeing. Hell, even Bruyneel agrees: there are no miracles in cycling. If you are getting dropped by guys a month before the Tour, you aren’t going to suddenly be climbing with them at the Tour. Lance was getting dropped at the freaking Tour of Gila in May. Now he’s going to race with AC???? I just find that hard to believe. Jani? Yes. Lance, not so much. Same with Andy. I think Frank is the guy for Saxo at the moment.

by MambaFan on Jul 2, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whenever I ran a race or route near my personal best ,

I was running really well.

.. and for Lance that was one day in a row.

Like I said. Proof Positive !

by thevaro on Jul 2, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he was trying to kill the ITT, myself

and he had about the same time as Frank Schleck.

I can’t get past that.

http://www.bah.net/

by dees ees en drama on Jul 1, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm good point

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 1, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remember what got Riis his last TDF win

the bait and switch move. Problem is, which one is the bait? Doesn’t really matter if they play it right.

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 1, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

LA

had the advantage of the TTT last year. Won’t have that this year. He also got some time on the echelon day – that might happen again this year or might not. Otherwise i don’t know that i disagree. He looks like a top ten climber to me – maybe – barely – lot of good climbers this year. But worse than that at the TT. Hard for me to see him on the podium, except that he’s a cagey bastard.

by yeehoo on Jul 2, 2010 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, caginess is where Lance shines...

He never looked all that good last year but he just stayed as close as he could and didn’t make a lot of mistakes… and somehow he ended up on the podium.

Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 2, 2010 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lance and Wiggins

are my bets for those who will be hurt by the most by this years parcourse. Both of them also benefitted from the conservative racing last year. It’s going to take a large jump in their respective fitness-levels for both of them to get the same results as last year I think.
If they have made those jumps remain to be seen, it’s not impossible but I don’t really see it.

by Jens on Jul 2, 2010 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

this is easier than rbjhan i hope....

by JessicaH on Jul 2, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good points, methinks

I tend to see Wiggins last year as a one-off. I’d be surprised if he can repeat this time.

The conservative racing angle is interesting too, because my sense of this year’s course is that it will be relatively difficult to control. Hard to say, though, until they actually race it.

by Jen See on Jul 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see it a little differently.

I think that Lance no longer has the snap in his legs that he had before. But I think that really hard stages and really hard racing that saps the body and requires long term energy reserves will be to his advantage.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

great point about TTT

I hadn’t thought enough about that – I remember even Armstrong said after the TTT that no one had won the Tour because of it, but a bunch of guys had fallen out of contention (sound familiar?)

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The reason 25 doesn't go into 10

is that some of that list will fail spectacularly/crash out/get saddle sores/rue what might have been. See Gesink or Evans last year.

I like the list, subject to the usual quibbles. Much to look forward to here. I’m interested in how Le Mevel goes. Kreuziger too.

by Drongo on Jul 1, 2010 6:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Exactly right.

Facinating group of riders here.

by ursula on Jul 1, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Precisely

I could sense discomfort on Ursula’s part at some of the low rankings, but that’s because the ranking fails to bump people up after the inevitable DNFs.

"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 1, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder what score Tony Martin might get.

Clearly he TTs fantastically, so top marks there, but how many points does he get for climbing? I’d give him a 16, but that might be too generous given his recent results. On the other hand, he’s capable of uncorking great efforts.

Cerca la qualita in Giro

by pigilito on Jul 1, 2010 6:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Hmmm. I think both his & Mick Rodgers' chances are fatally undermined by having Cav on the team.

It’s not a question of ‘if’ they end up in Cav’s leadout train, more ‘when’, I think. Having said that, TM did really well last year but then ran out of steam. I was hugely impressed by his Cali performance, so maybe he’s a bit further on this year.

"I was just trying to keep warm" - Ian Stannard on finishing third in KBK

by civetta on Jul 1, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way he gets a 16 climbing...I am a huge T-Mart fan but he is not that high and not that consistent in the mountains yet.

Sure he can unleash efforts but he isn’t going to be climbing just a little bit under Roman Kreuziger and better than Lance.

Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!

by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 1, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

I was tempted to rate him and will next week or the week after if he warrants it but I want to see him deal at least with the Alps.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did you missed Suisse?

T. Martin was dropped… While there were 20 left? I was thinking he’s going to be more like Cancellara.. Or worse.. Levi Leipheimer..

by Frinking on Jul 2, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on the climbs...if the gradient is steady and not too steep then he can do damage like he did at AToC

but its going to take a few years, if he wants to develop that side more

Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!

by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 2, 2010 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Im not buying Wiggins for podium hopeful

I haven’t seen much great form so far, even though the same argument can be made against others. This race is stacked, with many teams with GC aspirations, and Sky overall don’t look too climber friendly. I’m not sure he’ll be able to hang if the pace gets violent early in the mountains. Last year the climbing was mundane pace wise, aside from Contador’s ridiculous kicks, and the occasional Schlecklet counter. He’ll have to work for a top ten I think.

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 1, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd set absolutely no store whatsoever by his season thus far.

Apart from a fair bash at the cobbles with Flecha & getting Swifty his win in Picardie or whatever, I get the impression that Sky has been almost entirely tour-focussed all year. I think Wiggins’ll be really well-prepared.

My questions over him are that last year he was pretty much a follower not a leader when in came to climbing (ok, he tried the odd mini-attack but nothing significant) & I doubt that’ll be enough this year, and secondly, as you say, whether there’s anyone on the team who can do the sort of job for him that CVV did for him a few times last year.

"I was just trying to keep warm" - Ian Stannard on finishing third in KBK

by civetta on Jul 1, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd give a lot of store to what Wiggo has done thus far

He has set a few goals and met them and has focused and trained solely on the Tour. This guys talent and confidence are formidable imo.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

EBH is gonna look for his own stage wins

its probably their best chance, and Lofkvist made it known he wants to do a good ride. They have good stage hunters, its just not nearly the GC team that the other teams have. i really think this tour will be decided by the team factor, it has to be if people want to beat contador. If the team games fail miserably and everyone takes the same approach they did last year, then Wiggins may have a realistic shot at a podium, but I don’t think he’s a GC favorite, not in my mind.

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 1, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Besides the 26 for Armstrong being laughable

another laughable thing here is the way some are lapping up the journos pre Tour articles on the Landis affair and the potential of something coming out and causing RS to withdraw.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 6:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Its me! I am lapping up at any rumors of potential RS withdrawal! By the way, Vacansoleil still on stand by!

"The structure of our sport needs to change towards a model of other successful professional sports like soccer, tennis, Formula 1," Johan Bruyneel.

by holmovka on Jul 1, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, well at least you have admirable motivations.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately my chances to see my buddy and his teammates in Rotterdam very close to 0. Oh Well it is always next year.

"The structure of our sport needs to change towards a model of other successful professional sports like soccer, tennis, Formula 1," Johan Bruyneel.

by holmovka on Jul 1, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is nothing I hate more than agreeing with sminer on Lance Armstrong

but my god I kinda do here. OK I am not a big delusional fanboy of Lance(because that’s reserved for Bert) like sminer and realize he won’t win but having him ranked this low is silly. Why still doubt him? As much as I wouldn’t mind him being only strong enough to get a bottom top-10 so others on the Shack can shine I know that won’t be the case. He proved to me last year that he will be a podium threat no matter of form or age. And yes his form has looked better this year even if it hasn’t been as impressive as the result books may show(TdS had the worst TT field of all time when it comes to GC guys).

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 8:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea, LA really has no excuse for that TT in TdS.

But it does make sense to me that the one discipline to falter the most would be TT’ing. I can see how you would lose that ability to suffer on the edge of extinction to TT like the best in the business.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

which is why I want to know where you think he will win? He isn’t going to drop Bert or the Schlecks on the climbs and now he can’t put major time in them on the TT’s and when it comes to Bert may have to do damage control more than anything. So where will he gain enough time on them to win? The cobbles?
(serious question)

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, rain dance and voodoo dolls aside,

RS and others like Sky and probably BMC think that AC and others are vulnerable on the cobbles. I honestly don’t know, I’m just going on their confidence level that they feel they can knock him or some other GC contenders out of contention, or at least put some significant time on them. If they accomplish this then I think RS has the team to control things, even Contador to some extent.

If the cobbles wreak havoc, and Cadel and Wiggins are the closest ones to LA as I suspect, then LA will be left with the task of putting time into those guys in the mountains which I think he can do this year with the help of the team. He most likely will still be left with the obstacle of pulling out the best ITT of his return. It sounds like he’s been training his ass off to find his TT’ing form but it’s just not there. I feel good about his climbing though. But hey, the cobbles can take down the best in the biz. LA has proven himself (he made his way through Flanders pretty well) we know he has great all around skills, but misfortune could happen to him as well.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

He finished about 5:30 down last year

on a less climby course with a shorter TT(albeit one that favored Bert more than this years) so you’d have to imagine a gain of at least 4 minutes on the cobbles. Possible but in 13km of cobbles I’m not sure even Cance could put 4 minutes into Bert just by outpacing him. So I guess it will be a crash or flat then which is absolutely possible. But we will see, he has never raced P-R before so the only experience on these cobbles he has is 3.9km. Flanders cobbles seem far more forgiving so I don’t know how much his impressive Flanders result says.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I agree

the old cliche “the Tour won’t be won here but it could be lost” has never been more true. I’m sure one or two guys will be eliminated from GC contention on this day because of bad luck or bad bike stability but no one will gain a ton of minutes outright, especially not these GC guys who would never touch these cobbles if not for in the Tour. Now if that one guy is Bert then you could argue the cobbles did decide the race to an extent but I tend to believe the biggest GC threats will be so well protected by their teams it won’t be one of those guys, more so a mid top-20 guy who doesn’t have full team support(ahem..Gesink..ahem).

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
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by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think any rider is pinning their hopes on stage 3.

I am though, but I’m just a fan. Most riders are just saying that there will be carnage.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone will win the Tour on stage 3

But I do think someone could easily lose it, and at least one favorite will exit that stage with a chunk of time to chase back.

by Jen See on Jul 2, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's almost inevitable.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think so too.

Though, I admit, I’m really not sure who will get left on the road.

by Jen See on Jul 2, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've admitted somehwere it can be anybody's misfortune.

Everything else is just hope mixed into speculation.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

No I don't have to imagine 4 minutes gain on the cobbles

because I don’t consider last year’s time gap into the equation at all. I’m sad you brought that up. Do you think your man is going into this Tour with a 5:30 advantage or more?, no, so don’t bring it up. If you do think that, then keep it to yourself and feel comforted by it. It can be you security blanket (and we don’t have to tell anyone, I sure won’t).

From what I’ve seen of Contador’s riding he has great bike handling skills, but most everyone seems to think it’s going to be a challenge for him more so than for some others. I don’t have the answers you’re lookng for from me.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh it's called a reference point

because in these last 12 months I don’t see much having changed. But you’re right, I think he will gain even more time this year over Lance.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
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by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha

It’s going to come down to the final TT, and LA is going to give great time checks to Jani B. for the win of the century.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jani B.?

I thought you had high expectations? Now I see you are predicting an inter-team battle for 12th…hmmmm

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

While Andreas Kloden rolls to 3rd

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
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by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like this prediction...

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 1, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, mums the word

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

except . . . that ability to hang at ftp

seems to be the one that doesn’t go away quite as fast. There’re are 50 year olds turning some pretty dang fast times still.

5 and 10 minute power seems to go first.

by R Mc on Jul 1, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that's why I think LA will climb great this Tour

But that ITT, they have to take it above that FTP, and that shit can cause vomitting and dizziness, and slurred speech, and make you walk funny.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

The TT..

Has serious comparison with Basso before and after

by Frinking on Jul 2, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you

yes it does.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Climbing

I was surprised by a 19 on climbing for Frank Schleck. Andy at 19, has to put his brother down a peg or two. Unless you think Frank has really improved this year. That and Basso is a better climber than Frank. Last year, Basso easily outraced Lance in the Giro, while Frank lost out to him at Le Tour, despite teammate Contador not riding according to “the plan.”

by timon on Jul 1, 2010 8:14 PM EDT reply actions  

frank > basso

frank is an ace climber and can accelerate on a climb, like his bro and contador. Basso is more of a diesel. frank might be a half notch under andy. until TdS, there was no evidence he could TT to save his life, tho. Andy, no TT ace, but not as bad as big schleck.

"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."

--Dino Buzzati

by nrs5000 on Jul 1, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

but

basso sure looked good on those beastly climbs in the giro, diesel or not

by yeehoo on Jul 2, 2010 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

He did

But he wasn’t going against purer climbers like the Schlecks. Most of the time it was only Cadel who was close enough on GC to worry him, and the clawing-back-time didn’t enliven a lot of solo pursuits, instead all hammering 100% up the final climb.

Put Basso up against a Schleck or a Sastre and he’s going to have a lot more trouble.

by Douglas Ansel on Jul 3, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I won't defend

much my bias for Basso, but he has had an impressive comeback: three top fives in the last four grand tours.

by timon on Jul 4, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude...

I get it’s your power poll & all and I see that you’ve got different riders on same teams with different “Team” values…but, Sam San with a Team = 4? You really think Euskatel will support him more than, say, Garmin are prepared to support CVV?
There’s always annual hype on how well they’ll climb as a team and whatnot. Personally, I’ve never drank the Basque Orange Kool-Aid. Except for Sam San, those guys don’t do much for me.

by swells on Jul 1, 2010 8:20 PM EDT reply actions  

If the team survives the cobbles

then you might get to see and appreciate how good they can be when it hits the mountains. I thought they had a good sense of humor about themselves when it comes to surviving stage 3.
But I’m scratching my head about the rankings and trying to figure it out for the ‘benefit of doubt’ sake.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well damn, I must just bore a hole through my head if I do.

This could take me awhile ya know. I’m not always the sharpest tool in the shed, but I comfort myself by saying I’m the most useful.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha1 ha!

And I’ll have no problem in moving Lance up if he deserves it.

I can imagine these rankings being totally different in a week.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

If he deserves it, ha

In what cycling universe does LA and Kloden start the TdF ranked lower than Rogers? I realize your power poll has more than usual personal opinion in it which I don’t want to discourage, but …

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rogers won a GT this year...

from biggest Lance fanboy ever, Phil Ligget

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh right, my bad.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am liking Rogers quite a bit this year.

No shame in being behind him in my poll. And of course you don’t like it.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man! How lucky you are, no scratch that, how lucky we all are that it is 1 AM in London! Thanks God, Albertina sleeping right now!

"The structure of our sport needs to change towards a model of other successful professional sports like soccer, tennis, Formula 1," Johan Bruyneel.

by holmovka on Jul 1, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude-bqck atcha

One reason riders on the same teams have different team scores is that one of the riders is the leader and the other is Plan B. That means Mr. Plan B is a domestique until events prove otherwise-he is working for the leader and not the other way around.

Simple, eh?

Probably I should give Samu a team score of 3 instead of 4. No big deal for me.

 Both he and CVV (if CVV makes the final selections which is much more doubtful) will be isolated and trying to hand on when it gets to the big climbs.

by ursula on Jul 1, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with you on this one

if you want to ride for Eusky you must be able to climb, these guys may not have a great ability to climb with a fast pace for a long stretch or to be consistant enough to race for GC in a week or longer stage race but they sure as hell can be very competent helpers in the bergs. And to answer swells question, I for one believe Eusky will support SamSan more than a Garmin team that has a green jersey threat as well as a GC guy.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
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by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't be myself if I didn't add anything on the topic of Euskies

The problem with securing a sponsor for the team got some publicity in recent months and with Galdeano holding back some of his top riders for Vuelta(and with a different captaincy no less) it’s feasible to think that it might be Sam San’s last go at Grand Tour glory with the Basque team:

However, the Euskaltel-Euskadi team’s 10th anniversary has been somewhat of a turning point. "The economic crisis has adversely affected sponsoring and we need to find 1 million euros to stay at our level over the next two seasons", explains Madariaga, who knows that the Olympic road racing champion, Samuel Sánchez, has received some very attractive offers.(from TdF’s official website)

by Toadie on Jul 2, 2010 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Btw

all of these guys will try to be at the front of the race when it hits the cobbles as of course will the classics guys like Fabian and Thor. Umwolverine mentioned in another thread that the Mayo crash was before the cobbles started as a result of a position struggle. Could get pretty ugly(will Cadel throw punches?).

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 8:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Cadel will be on Hincapie's wheel like they're on a tandem

GH has shown once or twice he knows how to make the front.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Schlecks trying to get onto Cance's wheel is a scary ass thought

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 1, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I just can't see Cance being that patient.

Every man has his limits.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that Breschel or O'Grady will win the stage... at some point, no-one will be watching them..

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 1, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Breschel winning that stage after the classics crap-out

would be a nice story line.

Even better if HE was the one to get yellow out of it.

by R Mc on Jul 1, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously, I prefer the storyline where Stuey wins it

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 1, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

O'Grady could get away

and id favor him in a bunch sprint on flat ground against some of the classics guys. Would really like to see that!

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 1, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

My guess is Saxo to have yellow until the alps and possibly beyond. If the race pans out a certain way Cance will be in yellow after the prologue. Stage 1 – sprint no change. Stage 2 LBL – possibly havoc as the classics guys put the gc guys to the sword hunting a stage win – but Cance will do OK. Then stage 3 cobbles – Cance rode away at PR and should have no trouble if he so wishes doing the same to a TdF field. He could easily be 4 or 5 minutes + in the lead by the end of stage. Why wait around for AS and FS, let Breschel look after them.

by andrewp on Jul 2, 2010 5:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

You really think they'll let Cance power away?

I think the peloton has more respect for him than that.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

But if he was to try and go away then they would have to catch him – no easy task, ask Boonen et al. I find the possibilities of stages 2 and 3 intriguing to say the least.

by andrewp on Jul 2, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

No argument there... but Tony is a marked man..

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can but dream....

I will be at the side of the road for that one, and my giant inflatable saxo fan hand thing has just turned up today in the post. Now looking for an excuse to make a proper twat of myself waving said hand about in public, and the above is one of the few scenarios I might just consider it.

by andrewp on Jul 2, 2010 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

At both stage 2 and 3?

I have the feeling stage 2 is getting missed in all the cobbles-crooning. The stage 2 parcourse is nasty if there are teams who want to make use of it.

by Jens on Jul 2, 2010 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

That seems to be the one Tony thinks he may win..

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sadly, as of yesterday, stage 3 and 4 only

Well planned trip to prol, 1 and 2 now shelved. Turbo blew up on car yesterday and trip delayed. Fucking Saabs! (Note I have been a happy Saab customer for many years but this incident has hurt!)

Agree – stage 2 I think is going to come as a nasty shock to the gc bunch, and then stage 3 piles on the misery. My only hope is that the gc bunch can/will commit to both stages as there are 3 very flat stages to follow for recovery. If so could be a breathtaking start.

by andrewp on Jul 2, 2010 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bummer, sorry

It just goes to show you. Swedish cars can be trusted, dutch cars – not so much.

by Jens on Jul 2, 2010 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

love a good pun

Eat rice, act nice, and let the good times roll

by StickyMU on Jul 2, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Go for it... but if Stuey makes a break will you wave it anyway please?

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lovely... any Saxo winner will be fine with me :)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right

He was kind of under the radar at P-R. No way that happens here.

"It was getting colder and colder as we went up. About halfway up, I started to go a little backwards and as I passed Thor he looked at me and said, "If you lose my wheel I will smash you." I took his wheel and found an extra gear." João Correia

by jsallee00 on Jul 2, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

what is this word "let"?

if Cancellara wants to get away, he will.

The question is how long he could stay away and how much that would cost him down the line.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah...

he gets away cause he’s strong as hell. The question is whether he goes for the stage win. I’m guessing no – his job is to get the Schlecks to the line…if he finds himself in a good position near the finish, fine. But I’d say he stays within a few feet of them at all times.

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

If Cancellara rides away with a victory on the cobbles then all the worst case scenarios of Saxo Bank will come out. Kiss that team good by.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

funny

I had originally written something at the end of my comment like “and if he does win, it’s because the team is imploding,” but I erased it because I don’t know enough about what’s going on there. But yeah, imagine what would happen if he were to win and one of the Schlecks took a bad fall?

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

depends on how bad the fall was

Race-ending, and Riis is in Cancellara’s ear screaming (as much as is possible for Riis) at Cancellara to drill it.

Merely delayed, and Riis launches the bungy-cord onto Cancellara’s bike.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

But they do have another Roubaix winner to guide the Schlecks.

In fact, that could end up being the strategy—Cancellara drills it on the front, going for the stage win and to put as much hurt into the GC guys as possible, while Stuey shepherds the Schlecks into a safe and decent finish.

It’s so stupid I’m speechless--Fabian Cancellara, on claims that he rode a motorized bike in the classics

by majope on Jul 2, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

bingo

I could easily see Cancellara allowed a free hand to chase a stage victory and possible day or two in Yellow, while Breschel and O’Grady take care of the classification riders. I would not Cancellara going up the road a sign of the team imploding at all. He’s always been given his chances, as he deserves. He’s a big rider.

by Jen See on Jul 2, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Only Bjarne knows how badly the ship is holed at Saxo, so if this Tour is their (or Team Riis’) last, won’t he want his boys to take some sweet stage victories? The stage to Arenberg is ripe for Spartacus to pluck.

by El Cicada on Jul 2, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

But I would go further – Cance is this year’s Wiggo. My pick for being the GC guy noone thought of. Prol, + 2 & 3 = Cance lead til the pyrenees at least. Finishes 5th after final TT. He’s looks slim to me.

by andrewp on Jul 2, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope he gets on breschel's wheel instead

and they just let Cance go crazy.

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 1, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

No...O'Grady deserves one last dig :)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 1, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

...as i said above :)

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 1, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wiggins' path to victory

All year, I’ve been saying that Wiggins won’t even crack the top 10, but his comments at the Tour Presentation got me thinking.

“The first week will difficult for some but not for us,. We’ve got Juan and Eddy , one of the most talented riders in the peloton. We’ll be okay.”

Wiggins has proven he can ride cobbles, so I’m wondering if Sky’s plan is to absolutely try and smash this first week. If he wins the prologue, which is likely in my opinion, Team Sky will be leading the peloton through the small roads and cobbles of Belgium and Netherlands. With Eddy and Flecha and prime position at the head of the race, Sky could wreak havoc. So maybe Sky is going into this Tour with the gameplan to win the race in the first week.

Prologue: 15 seconds on Contador
Stage One: 45 seconds on Contador
Stage Two: 0 seconds on Contador
Stage Three: 2:00 minutes on Contador

It’s an unlikely scenario, but possible. Wiggo then goes into “hang-on mode,” and by the final time trial, he hopes he’s still in the lead or close enough to take the yellow back from Contador.

"My clients dont care shit about romandie or mello johnny" - singhstax

by PopUp Rolen on Jul 1, 2010 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh fine, start "thinking" after Wiggo talks

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 1, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lead the Tour from start to finish????

   If Sky is thinking this they probably don’t plan on passing any recreational drug tests.

Woof

by flying dog on Jul 1, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, he’s just talking about the time between W and C – presumably some other team could get in a break and be in yellow until the alps

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 1, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still not enough

Wiggins is not an elite climber…but hey, if he proves me wrong good for him. Id like it if someone would try some tactics like that though.

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 1, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/h2h.asp

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah yes. Thanks

So, in 2007, when they first started racing time trials, Wiggins was better. He was also better in the 2008 Giro on the last TT, though not on the first two ITTs. After that Giro, Bert has been better in all the 2009 TT’s{ one in Paris-Nice and the rest in last year’s Tour.

Last year’s Paris-Nice was the closest to Saturday’s prologue since it was 9.3 km. Bert beat Wiggo by 7 seconds. Wiggo was second.

Now none of this means that Wiggo can;t beat Bert Saturday. But I seriously doubt that either will have more that 5 of so seconds on the other.

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/h2h.asp

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Weird

my link was supposed to directly go to the page with Bert vs. Wiggo on it, it’s the one I had open. Sorry bout that.
Anyway I think you see a very slight regress from Wiggo in the ITT as he focuses on becoming a better climber while Bert already had climbing down and is improving in the ITT. And he’s just better.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good job, ursula

But with climbing, maybe we could also consider descending

by ravel on Jul 1, 2010 10:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Ah yes!

I should have done so. Next time if I do that I promise descending will be added.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think your under-rating CVV's time trialling just a little because last time they went this far in the Tour, he absolutely destroyed

and was 3rd place and beat Evans by a minute, Sastre by 1:30, Menchov by :50, and Sammy by over 2 min. I know that was 2 years ago but they haven’t been tested at that distance before and a giving Sammy a 7 at this distance is probably a bit generous…I would give him a 9 if it was 25-30 km TT’s at the Vuelta but not on a 51km pancake course.

Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!

by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 1, 2010 11:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Very possible.

He’s just one of the ones that I want to see look healthy and all first. But if so his ranking should go up.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok. I change my mind every 5 minutes but here is the view from

the bi-polar community.

1) Alberto because he is the best climber in the world, who time trials similalry to the best time trialist in the world.
2) Frank because he was riding away from the big boys in the TDS.
3) and drum roll please… Lance Armstrong; solely because he tweeted that his pre-tour test was close to his best record.

CVV says he is no where near 100%
Cadel’s normal luck will return
Wiggo is a one hit wonder
Menchov does not look like Giro Menchov
Basso. Giro Tired.
Andy was looking 90% and then he fell down.

And great post btw.

.

by thevaro on Jul 1, 2010 11:25 PM EDT reply actions  

"bi-polar community"

hehe

agreed on the post, really got the debate going! very much enjoyed it U.

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 1, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

My top 10

1. Contador
2. Baby Schleck

those are obvious picks…

then I’ve got the following

3. Wiggins
4. Frank Schleck
5. Menchov
6. HWMNBN
7. Gesink
8. Kreuzinger
9. Basso
10. Evans

I’m really not liking any of the Giro guys. The Giro is typically brutal to begin with. The course made it worse, and combine that with the bizarro tactics on the stages that were supposed to be quiet, and we’re talking about a double step-up from a typical Giro beating.

I have Lance in sixth but I could honestly see him winning. Unlikely, but definitely in the region of feasibility. I just lack confidence in his ITT after the Tour de Suisse. I’m high on Wiggins. I think he’s going to be better prepared than he was last year.

http://www.bah.net/

by dees ees en drama on Jul 1, 2010 11:26 PM EDT reply actions  

No takers for my Wiggins Question ?

Where are the know-it-alls ?

You know who you are.

by thevaro on Jul 2, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he entered the Giro but I don't think he was gunning for the Giro by any means

IDK, just intuitively I have a very good feeling about Wiggo. It might just be that I like the Garmin kit…which is weird because orange/blue is usually an ugly combo. And he races for Sky now.

http://www.bah.net/

by dees ees en drama on Jul 2, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but dees saw where I was going with that.

I was implying that he had not had a race in June that showed him as a top contender. Maybe he is hiding his cards so that it will be a surprise for us.

by thevaro on Jul 2, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

my comments

-more demerits for the Giro guys who went hard for the win: Basso, Cadel, Vino. (BTW- your comments on Cadel v. AC are interesting and make me wish Cadel hadn’t gone all in for the Giro). These guys dug deep in May, and by the Pyrennes they’ll be past the sell-by date on their peak for sure. They guys who rode the Giro to train, different story. Read: Wiggins. Maybe Carlos.

—add a jour sans factor. Some guys seem to suffer from the bad day, on a predictable basis. Menchov springs to mind. Gesink, in his way. Frank, if he doesn’t keep the rubber side down.

—this is a crazy deep field.

—Contador is clearly the fave, but just what if the Spartacus somehow pulls the bros. Schleck through the cobbles with a significant time gap on AC. It’s not the likeliest scenario, but would sure make for an interesting race. If only those boys could TT.

"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."

--Dino Buzzati

by nrs5000 on Jul 2, 2010 12:09 AM EDT reply actions  

and

no idea why the first line of the post is struck thru. Carry on.

"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."

--Dino Buzzati

by nrs5000 on Jul 2, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks. And speaking of Cadel vs Contador

I was not happy with what Andy said today:

Asked if he thought he could beat Contador, Andy said, "I’m not here to fight Contador; I’m here to win the Tour. Contador is the main favourite, but there are many others and I’m ready to fight anyone who wants to take my spot.

Why am I not happy? For the reason that he has not learned that sometimes you have to beat a specific rider. It’s not always strictly about time. Or to put it another way, the sprinters know they are racing each other and have to factor in lead out trains and getting behind the right guy, etc. IMO the same is true for the GC guys though to a lesser extent. Cadel has learned that in his battles with Bert. Andy hasn’t. He’s relying too much on his team, whereas Bert and Cadel have had to learn to do without much team support.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps he just doesnt want

media to paying much attention to bert-andy rivalry. Pyrenees is in the 3rd week. Before that, every second he losing to Bert could be exaggerated. With the chaos in Saxo Bank these days, he obveriously doesnt like to get more pressure.

by ravel on Jul 2, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I actually thought that was a great answer.

I’ve found myself perplexed by the number of fans and riders who have focused their thoughts and attention on beating AC. To win, you have to be the fastest guy to finish the Grand Boucle, not just beating AC. To my mind, he’s got his eye on the prize: the yellow jersey. I think Lance’s obsession with beating AC will be his downfall at the Tour. The field is too deep and team are too good, to focus on beating one rider IMO.

by MambaFan on Jul 2, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

"I think Lance’s obsession with beating AC will be his downfall at the Tour."

Really, your assumption is that LA is there with an obsession to beat just one rider? Who kept this poor sap focused on the objective of winning the Tour seven times?, because I can’t see how he gets anything accomplished with his blind obsessiveness.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, stop confusing things with facts !

Stick with assumptions, predictions and emotional predispositions that we all love so much.

by thevaro on Jul 2, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're right,

the poor old guy probably has lost everything over all these years. If I didn’t pity him, I’d probably be able to see all his pitfalls and crazed undertones when he speaks that the average person sees so clearly.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey take it up with Lance.

If you disagree that’s fine. I’m just going by what Mr. Armstrong has been talking about since the end of July 2009.

by MambaFan on Jul 2, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

He never had to worry about being beaten at the Tour

but Lance didn’t seem to perplexed about finishing 3rd last year and he didn’t lose any fans because of it, I do think he really wants to beat his dreaded rival though and who wouldn’t think that? Doubt it will hurt his chances any because if he is focusing on beating Bert then he is really focusing on beating the best and therefore the whole shabang.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt he wants to beat him.

And his chances are pretty good of winning if he does beat him, but calling it an obsession and likely his downfall, as if he’s forgotten there are other contenders? C’mon, can’t we set people straight (or ‘forward’ as my gay friends say) when they are so bent?

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know whatcha need

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's almost time for the avatar switch

when when when…. hmmm?

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its interesting

because Contador is the one everyone has to gun for, but whether they should is hard to definitively answer. The guys who have been hyped up for the GC may have to mark #1, but the guys who have nothing to really lose (Basso, Gesink, Fuglsang, SamSan) may be able to take advantage of head games if there truly is an obsession of beating Contador, and not just winning. But, if anyone is mentally able to focus on no one but themselves in order to win, well…it’s Lance.

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 2, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree..

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

They have Grivko and Iglinsky

not many teams will have more than two cobbles guys except for Saxo but they have the most clumsy GC riders of any team. But they won’t need much more for 13km of cobbles in which they are just trying to ride a solid rhythm and not trying to win a race.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shhh!

Astana is a very weak team that Saxo Bank and Radio Shack are going to run through like a wet paper towel on the cobbles. Wait until you see Levi and Andy dropping the hammer on the cobbles. There won’t be anything pretty about it. : )

by MambaFan on Jul 2, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

are you joking?

but . . . in an alternate universe, Leipheimer could have won Paris-Roubaix.

He’s got the Hinault build + a mtb background.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

+2

and great comments too. This is one fascinating tour – more so than usual.

by andrewp on Jul 2, 2010 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very interesting post...

I knew the competiton was deep, but when you see some great riders maybe not even making top ten, that really brings it home.

I think the Giro guys may do better than most people are expecting. Basso looked really strong, and I’m not sure it’s a given that he’ll be off form now. And if Evans was as sick as he says he was, that was truly an awesome ride to finish as close as he did. He could be very tough.

And about Andy Schleck—I don’t know, the competiton’s a lot tougher this time. I don’t think he’s anywhere near being a lock for second.

Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 2, 2010 4:35 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm with you on the Giro assessment.

I tend to think that the biggest issue will be mental freshness after such a hard Giro. But the guys that haven’t been riding that much outside the Giro, like Basso, should be okay. In the case of Basso, I actually think that there are not enough hard mountain top finnishes for him to get maximum benefit. I think that the 17th stage Tourmalet climb will show that Basso’s climbing is maybe .5 less than Contador rather than 2.0 less.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great post, ursula!

I am so looking forward to this race.

It’s so stupid I’m speechless--Fabian Cancellara, on claims that he rode a motorized bike in the classics

by majope on Jul 2, 2010 8:14 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

None of those pesky mountains to get in the way of REAL racing.

It’s so stupid I’m speechless--Fabian Cancellara, on claims that he rode a motorized bike in the classics

by majope on Jul 2, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hello, Friends!

Fox in the Hen house, Kid in the Candy store, that about describing my feelings on the eve of the Tour!
Yes! Our 21 days of Christmas in July, starts tomorrow!
I feel , so sorry, for those who not following Cycling! What a magnificent Show they going to miss!
What a drama! What a intrigue! What a equation with so many unknown!
Thank all of you, for the all funny, knowledgeable, informative and some time even controversial posts you brought to our Café!
And, as always, on the eve of the every Grand Tour, let me wish you, nerves of still, forgiving family members, understanding Bosses, and off course, lots of points for your VDS teams!

"The structure of our sport needs to change towards a model of other successful professional sports like soccer, tennis, Formula 1," Johan Bruyneel.

by holmovka on Jul 2, 2010 9:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Your joyousness at the coming Tour adds to our enjoyment :)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you, Seahorse! We are all joyful today, I think.

"The structure of our sport needs to change towards a model of other successful professional sports like soccer, tennis, Formula 1," Johan Bruyneel.

by holmovka on Jul 2, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Tour de France is the only race that gets live tevevision coverage here

cant wait, for tomorrow!!!

If I wanted to get shit small wins, I'd race shit small races (Cavendish on Greipel)

by singhstax on Jul 2, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's wonderful for you! Will you still come here and visit with us?

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I cant stop visiting PDC

I was out in the jungle for a month of camping hiking boating etc. I am back in time for the Tour de France. Coincidence? It was a long hard drag lots of bugs trees and rain here in South America. We crossed over to Suriname (illegally) and spent a week there. Now its back to asphalt roads and tooting cars offices and computers, what a relief.
I will be a regular around here once again.
I kinda missed you guys too.

If I wanted to get shit small wins, I'd race shit small races (Cavendish on Greipel)

by singhstax on Jul 2, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks, ursula!

“Prepping for a Grand Tour is half the battle. (I have no idea if that is true but it sounds good doesn’t it?). "

Yes, yes it does.

I feel like a pot ready to boil over. Either that or a hairless cat with poison ivy. I can’t sit still, I can’t think about anything else while waiting for le Tour to start. I’m ready to put life on hold for the month of July once again. You hear that Life? Take a vacation and give us a break for a while…

by Spot of Bother on Jul 2, 2010 9:50 AM EDT reply actions  

I know how you feel.

My family is going to have to deal with a little neglect for the next three weeks. A bit off the subject. I was riding back down Deer Creek canyon yesterday evening when a kid and his father came riding up. They were about three fourth of the way up with the kid leading. The kid was about 7 or 8 years old. First time I’ve ever seen anyone go up that canyon who wasn’t at least a teenager. Made me think that there is hope for US cycling yet after the old guys retire.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, ursula, you have Wiggings at 29,

Armstrong at 26. I’ve got a 100 bucks that says that Armstrong beats Wiggins. If your assessment is right, it should be an easy 100 for you. Are you willing to stand behind your picks? Are we on?

The only other thing that I ask is that we bring back this Power Poll and evaluate it after the race.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions  

I think it will get evaluated during the race at least once, maybe twice.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Furst, I don't have 100 bucks

Second I will do updates on this poll the next two weeks with links to this one.

Plus I will say that I didn’t try too hard on the exact order. As I said I see a whole bunch of riders with very similar abilities and at this point it;s really too close to say one is better than another objectively. After the race ends we’ll see that some of the riders dropped out of contention early while others hung on surprisingly long. I mean look at last year:

- Not many of us at all predicted Wiggins to do as well as he did.
-Then you have Menchov and Sastre blowing up after their Giros-will the same happen to Evans and Basso? Or maybe they will be like Lance and Levi-AND Pellizotti-able to handle both the Giro and Tour?
-And who like Gesink last year will just plain crash out early ? Beats me and so I am not trying to figure them out.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

My top ten.....

1) Contador (if the cobbles on stage 3 don’t ruin his chances it should be smooth sailing)
2) F. Schleck (I think he’s got one great Tour in him, course suits him quite well)
3) A. Schleck (Lack of results are a little troubling, I think he’ll come into the Tour slighty below form which will ultimately knock him down to 3rd this year)
4) Wiggins (he showed solid form in the Giro, should be much better here)
5) Menchov (the mountains are too hard for him, and he always has that bad day in the final week)
6) Armstrong (course looks much harder than last year, he has to take significant time on stage 3 over all the skinny climbers if he wants to have any chance at the podium)
7) Rogers (very solid rider over three weeks, he’s been pointing to this race all year long so I think 7th is very reasonable)
8) Leipheimer (old but still reasonably good over 3 weeks)
9) Basso (He’s bound to disappoint a little after such a hard Giro, the mind is willing but the body will be weak)
10) Kreuziger (I think this is pretty much his ceiling in the ground tours, perhaps with a watered down field he could climb up the standings a little in the future but not by much)

by Fernando on Jul 2, 2010 11:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Vinokourov will likely get

Contador through the cobles okay. And he has been practicing with the advice of some cobble specialists.

I was okay with Andy coming into form on time until he had his recent crash and lost all that skin. Now I’m a little concerned for him.

Wasn’t impressed with Wiggins at the Giro. Expect him to do worse than last year.

My take on Armstrong is that his engine has gotten a little smaller, but his gas tank is as big as ever. So my thinking is that the faster and harder the stages are, the more he will benefit. If the mountain stages are not aggressive for the entire length and if it comes down to a shoot out for the last 5 K of climbing, he will loose out. If the climbing is hard for the climbs leading up to the final climb, and if the pace is high from the bottom of the final climb, he will benefit. His advantages and disadvanteges now make his riding look a lot like Basso’s.

I just don’t know where to put Kreuzinger at this point in his career. I wouldn’t be surprised by anything between 4th and 20th.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can i ask why Evans didn't make your top 10?

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry! I meant that for fernando :(

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 2, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the principal players from the Giro will be completely knackered here

All of them have a different motivation for riding the Tour. Vino want to support AC. Sastre (IMO) seemed to be nudged into riding at his sponsors behest. Basso has great morale after winning the Giro and hasn’t raced the Tour in 5 years. That would give anyone the necessary motivation to ride the Tour.

But motivation is one thing and legs are another. Like Menchov last year I have a feeling most of these guys will not be very competitive by the third week, of course i could be wrong about that, but I’m going to go out on a limb here and predict Basso will be the only top ten finisher of the Giro principals. Evans has seemed very quiet in the run up the Tour and has been extremely competitive since the start of the season, that and the Giro have got to take a heavy toll on a rider, even a great champion like Evans.

by Fernando on Jul 2, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think AC will make it past the cobbles too

The man is as meticulous as they come, and I’m sure he anticipated the potential dangers on stage 3 and prepared accordingly. In someways, for the sake of the Tour, it might be better drama if AC gets gapped and loses a few minutes because if the opposite happens and he comes out unscathed it’s going to be a massacre in the mountains.

Andy will probably be OK, I just have an odd feeling that big bro will get the better of him this year, these 2 are the only ones who will hang with AC when the inevitable accelerations comes at the crucial spots in the race.

Wiggins?? I have a feeling he’ll be OK too. He was actually a touch stronger than Armstrong last year in the mountains and I don’t see why he can’t repeat the feat this year.

Armstrong will pin all his hopes on stage 3…..if he doesn’t take significant time there his hopes of the podium are over. No way in hell he hangs with AC on a mountain like the Tourmalet, particularly if AC is in an attacking mode. Throw in his subpar TTing and 4th through 6th is really the best he can hope for.

Kreuziger for me is a bit miscast as a grand tour rider, I’ve felt that way since last year’s race, the great shame for me is that Liquigas original plan of Nibali riding the Tour as co leader with Kreuziger didn’t materialize. I was really interested to see what he could accomplish on this type of a mountainous course. Just another reason to despise Pellizotti i guess, lol

by Fernando on Jul 2, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions  

This opinion seems to be universally shared.

“In someways, for the sake of the Tour, it might be better drama if AC gets gapped and loses a few minutes because if the opposite happens and he comes out unscathed it’s going to be a massacre in the mountains.”

But I’m going to swim upstream on this one and say that Contador will not have as easy a time in the mountains as people think.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not only swimming upstream with you on this one,

I’m doing it backstroking. I see AC springing away only to be reeled back in by others.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that seems to be the weak (or anyway less strong) point in his climbing...

He has that acceleration uphill that is very hard to match, so he can create the gap, but he’s not always able to sustain a higher pace. Sometimes the guys who just keep grinding away can come back to him (as on Alpe d’Huez in the Dauphine, where not just Brajkovic but a whole group came back repeatedly). I’m very interested to see Basso matched up with AC on the big climbs.

Also, I wonder what will happen if Alberto is a minute or two down on GC (as he could well be after the cobbles) and is isolated with the elite climbers (say Basso, the Schlecks, Rodriguez, perhaps one or two of the RS squad). What happens if some of them start attacking? If he has to cover all the moves, can he do it?

Perhaps just wishful thinking, but I do believe Contador is human and may show it.

Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 2, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow can I have that weakness please? ;)

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't remember the last time Bert was reeled in

after he attacked and gained a gap, 2008 Giro I think.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

He gapped someone?

no he didn’t, not Jani.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go back and watch again

Jani bridged a 50-100 meter gap—and it took a while.

The myth of Contador suggests that such a bridge should not be possible, but it happened.

Moreover, Contador tried repeatedly to drop Brajkovic and couldn’t.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes he did.

Of course Contador can be caught. The proper question though is how likely to be caught when he is targeting the race and is in top form? The Dauphine was not seeing Contador at his best-much like several other riders and like several riders in the Suisse. Judging Contador by his Dauphine performance would be like doing that last year-which several people did here and were proven quite wrong.

by ursula on Jul 2, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

In a way I agree.

I don’t think that he was in top form for the Dauphine. But then I think back to the Giro he won. He came off the beach with less conditioning than he had for the Dauphine. Then he beat three dopers at the Giro that were 100% prepared in Ricco, DiLuca and Pellizotti. So obviously Contador can ride well with little preparation. So why couldn’t he get away from Jani on L’Alpe. Certainly the L’Alpe stage, at least, was not for lack of effort. And if you put together your list of top 10 climbers, Jani would not be on it. Maybe not even the top 20. I’m not going to read too much into that outcome. But it was a bit curious.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the Giro was 3 weeks and he could grind them down

he never really dropped any of those guys on a consistent bases and did not even win a stage. He struggled in the climbs and had to gain his time in the TTs. There is such a big difference between one week and 3 week races which is why I think Jani is being overhyped for the Tour here.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not hyping Jani for the Tour.

At least not this one. But wait two or three years and I might. Jani versus Gesink versus A. Schleck in 2013. Also to be known as the Buchenwald Tour.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do not quite remember it that way

but I believe you, but the Dauphine is certainly not always an accurate predictor of what will happen in July.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

To steal a phrase from somewhere
Christ, your devotion is amazing.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know

that statement is truly ludicrous. I mean guys like Valverde, Moreau, Vino, Landaluze and Mayo have dominated the Tour after winning the Dauphine.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

OH SHIT!

how can I forget greats like Armand De Las Cuevas, Udo Bölts and the greatest American cyclist of all time-Tyler Hamilton.
(Now you will point out riders like Hinault, Armstrong and Indurain have won it, thereby ignoring that I said “not always” and acting as if I stated that the Dauphine is never an accurate predictor of how the Tour goes…carry on please)

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, I was joshin ya

I thought the quote was inappropriate for the circumstance which is why I used it. ursula said it to me rearding LA. I thought I’d have some fun with it.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 3, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flèche

joking (kinda)

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Mur and its mighty 1km

(it is mighty but c’mon it’s not an Alpine climb)

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, that was mostly tongue-in-cheek, Mur’s not long enough to really wear down Evans

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seems like Frank and Andy reeled

him in once in last years Tour. Igor Anton rode away from him in one of the Spanish stage races earlier this year. Although we can’t read too much into the preperation level at that time.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I'm talking about.

Smack talk.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

As we get closer to the start

I’m beginning to think more so that the cobbles may be the scene of a brutal massacre. What if the GC guys take that as the opportunity, get their Classics guys to up the pace. I think hopes may be crushed if the right tactics are taken, but the question then will be, how the race will unfold if the GC field is thinned that early, IF it ends up really decisive. The early mountains may then become a tactical maneuver, which may lead to alot of breakaway winners, like last year. Then it’s Contador’s race to lose. Contador has Iglinsky to look after him on the pave, he likely will be fine, so i can’t foresee any good coming out of real time gaps being forced there unless Contador gets caught out. If Contador is fine after the cobbles, whoever takes control should try to let the peloton come back together so more teams will work for a GC split on the first big mountain stage. Just seems like the best tactics to me.

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 2, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions  

we'll know in the 10k before the first cobble stretch.

and if you’re correct . . .

Stage 3 might not be quite as much to Armstrong’s advantage.

Which of Radio Shack’s battle-tested squad of cobbles-warrior will he look to to protect his position?

Stage 3 favors BMC, SaxoBank, Sky, and Garmin.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

LA is going to pretend that George is still his right hand man

look for him to grab GH along with Cadel. Lance might be alone but I think he can take care of himself on this stage.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ballan? Certainly you jest.

If he manages to be there, in front of LA, then I don’t give LA much hope of winning anymore. But LA knows the tactics of a bike race well enough to not have doors like that shut on him.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

My devotion? Amazing?

Your view of some things keeps me me scratching my head.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're talking about st.3 right?

So . . . perhaps the main reason Ballan is in the BMC team is for the first week, specifically, st. 3.

Surely it’s occurred to Ochowicz that Hincapie might have some divided loyatlies.

So . . . what do you do in your meeting? You give a strong classics rider the job of being the sweeper on Evans’s wheel.

Sure, if Armstrong wants a wheel, he’ll be able to get to it—the point is to make him fight for it, because Radio Shack might not be able to protect him here.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

well put

Armstrong is indeed cagey, and I think he’ll make it through the stage just fine, but it’s in BMC’s interest to put time into him on this stage for Evans. I don’t think Hincapie’s loyalties will be divided at all, though maybe that’s naive of me.

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

za-zing!!!!!!!!

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, don't encourage him, he might start to believe in himself.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that some nasty things are likely to happen on 3.

But I think that who they happen to will be somewhat random. I’m not going to say that Iglinsky won’t take care of Contador. But if he does, it may be the first time that he has sacrificed himself. I know that it’s incredible to consider Vino a dependable domestique, but in this case, I think that he will be more dependable than Iglinsky. I think Vino is staking a lot on Contador winning this Tour. He wants to prove that forcing himself back on the team and getting rid of Bruyneel did not have a bad outcome.

But even if Iglinsky does help on the cobbles, he will be off stage hunting for most of the Tour.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

first time?

What are you talking about? Iglinsky has already taken care of Bert for several times.

by ravel on Jul 3, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

giro 2008

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jul 3, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

in the future

I really hope the cobbles are kept out of the Tour. The cobbles are for the Spring, in Paris Roubaix and Tour of Flanders, and I don’t ever see the organizers of that race throwing in the odd HC mountain climb just to liven thing up a little, lol

Cobbles are nice but the nature of the Tour (where the mountains are usually the deciding factor) means riders are inclined to be as lean as possible, and it seems a touch harsh to expect these ultra lean climbers to be able to hold there with these guys pushing 200 pounds. And worse, one little mishap and the damage will be measured in minutes not seconds.

by Fernando on Jul 2, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I only disagree with you totally.

A gc rider should be an over-all rider.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Has any rider publicly criticized the Cobbles?

If I wanted to get shit small wins, I'd race shit small races (Cavendish on Greipel)

by singhstax on Jul 2, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

believe it or not, Boonen, if I remember right

didn’t he say cobbles shouldn’t be in the Tour? anyone have this reference?

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

correct-a-mundo

Clearly Boonen hasn’t seen my GT points-omnium proposal . . .

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha!

silly Boonen

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Jul 2, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boonen himself said that they have no place in TdF, which speaks volumes

Voigt wasn’t too ecstatic about it as well(check the stage preview video). Cycling has changed a whole lot since Merckx was killing it in GTs and classics alike. Cancellara might be one of the most versatile riders in the peloton nowadays, but he will never win a three weeks race unless Switzerland comes up with its own one and even then it will be hard to find that many flats for TT courses.

by Toadie on Jul 2, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh why?

classics guys aren’t asked to climb with the best. GC guys race stage races while classics guys race classics and if you can do both well you become a legend but that hardly ever happens.

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I only agree with RMc 100%
A gc rider should be an over-all rider.

I want to see all the GT organizer’s planning their routes with this as their mantra.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. The results of the cobbles

are too accident prone. And the outcome of a 21 day race shouldn’t revolve around the fate of one day on the cobbles.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Back in the 80's

The GC riders for the Tour could hold their own on the cobbles. Hinault, Fignon and Lemond were all quite good there. And I believe (could be mistaken though) that part of the reason was the slightly less mountainous nature of the race in those days, with a slightly greater emphasis (in comparison to today’s standards) being put on the TTing and flat racing.

Back in those days all the great riders rode Paris Roubaix, and some even podiumed or won, but that was a completely different era. Now you would be hard pressed to find a GC contender who even rode Paris Roubaix this year.

by Fernando on Jul 2, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get this "the fate of the race shouldn't revolve around . . . one day on the cobbles"

Why not?

Why should the fate of the tour revolve around any one day?

And yet . . . every year . . . several riders are eliminated from contention during one unpredictable day.

Is this because you want the tour decided in the climbing stages?

I find most (not all, but most) GT climbing stages about as exciting as watching a bad high school cross country meet.

And . . . were it up to me, I’d do away with elapsed time for Grand Tours and make them points-based omnia.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, you are evil ;)

A three week points race would be silly fun to watch.

by Jen See on Jul 2, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't figure out how to get around the danger

caused by way more people fighting for places in the finales, tho.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha!

Yes, the 3km rule would not work in a Points race. Zomg, it would be so stupid crazy.

by Jen See on Jul 2, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Answer

“Is this because you want the tour decided in the climbing stages?”

Yes! I want to see guys fighting it out crank to crank on the climbs. And if that doesn’t sort them, then the crono should. I don’t want them sorted by crashes or cross winds or punctures or trains or break aways. While all of those things can add interest – I don’t want it to effect the podium.

“I find most (not all, but most) GT climbing stages about as exciting as watching a bad high school cross country meet.”

We differ there. It’s during the climbing stages that my pulse is going.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't have a problem with riders...

losing significant time because they were inattentive on a flat stage. That’s on them. Crashes are inevitable, and IMO cause enough yearly drama for us to forsake the cobbles. But having 130-140 pound guys bouncing all over the place trying to stay on the wheel of the Cancellara’s of the world? That’s just plain wrong. Again, lets have Cancellara climb a HC climb at Paris Roubaix next year to see if it doesn’t disturb him just a little bit, lol j/k

by Fernando on Jul 2, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can handle differing

For me, Large Bomb’s bridge across that cross-wind gap in Paris-Nice was just as exciting—and the resulting pursuit for the rest of the bunch . . . was more exciting than most mountain stages.

by R Mc on Jul 2, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was your fan until the "yes, mountains" answer.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 2, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL. Sorry sminer.

But if it were up to me I would have 6 mountain top finnishes instead of three. And I would double the ITT kilometers.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't worry

soon the Vuelta will be here with its 6 mountain top finishes!

Los Geht's Deutschland!!!!
Down with Argentina!!!!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 2, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. In a nations that loves climbing

and has a slew of good climbers. Next to the Grand Tours, I love the Dauphine best because it is so dense with climbs and TTs.

by tamburlaine on Jul 2, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh that sounds good

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 2, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

It'll make things interesting though.

Anything is fair game. Terrain differs year to year, and even though I think they should use them only occasionally, its another obstacle for a true champion to overcome.

"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"

by agl on Jul 2, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but it's completely out of sorts with what is commonplace at the Tour

Should GC riders now adopt a cobbles training regiment into their winter rides just in case?

by Fernando on Jul 2, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes!

"My clients dont care shit about romandie or mello johnny" - singhstax

by PopUp Rolen on Jul 2, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many times are cobbles thrown into the Tour?

Last I can remember was in 2004, when skinny Iban Mayo lost all hope of winning because of a crash or mechanical.

If you want riders to be complete all arounders as suited to the cobbles as they are to the mountains make it a regular part of the Tour itinerary, not the odd spectacle just thrown in to make the race more dramatic.

by Fernando on Jul 2, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

What about health?

Very little attention has been given to the fact that contenders often come into major tours not in optimal health. While these maladies may be minor in nature, a flu bug or minor cold, (even hemorrhoids) they do affect performance. In most cases the riders will recover before they need to perform at the extremes, but what if they don’t?

Contador has come into this tour recovering from a “flu bug”. This was the reason given for his degraded performance in the Dauphine and was again used as an explanation for his results in today’s prologue.

So, the question can be posed; is Contador recovered sufficiently from his “bug” to win the tour.

Can he recover in the flat stages, over the cobbles, into crosswinds in the stages before the tour returns to France and the first climbs.

The general consensus is that his recovery from his illness has lead to a reduction of training time and thus, he is behind in getting to his top form, but it will be OK because the hardest part of the tour will be the final week and his return to top form will be in time.

Or will it? I believe Contador is vulnerable right now. And, if indeed Bruyneel is as a savvy a DS as we all know he can be, he will seek to exploit this. This will be tested on the long. flat windy stages and especially the “day of the cobbles” Double this if it rains.

Contador may be under pressure, heck, any of the contenders (LA included) can be put under pressure without the need for mountain stage, especially if a contender DOES NOT have a powerful enough team (with rolleurs) to chase a split in the field. With the loss of race radio, this can be very interesting..

I can hardly wait

by Joe Pooblix on Jul 3, 2010 10:23 PM EDT reply actions  

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Can it be Feb 25 already?
A frozen 'cross ride from this last weekend. As you may be aware we have had siberian conditions here in the UK with a low of -14 degrees centigrade here on saturday morning. It was a beautiful sunny morning so i layered up and set off for a snowy 'cross ride along a roman road. I checked the thermometer when i got back to find it had been -10 throughout the ride! I had a lot of fun though and the views were spectacular.
Oh come on
Cowmouflage - Walt "Clyde" Frazier raises the bar
1 week and 2 days to go..! Are you ready?
Spanish government may sue French TV for doping skits
This is funny on so many levels. [Html should open bigger]
New 2012 World Tour stage race in China

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Editors

30102_394659898780_714513780_3911404_852720_n_small Chris Fontecchio

Espresso_cup_small Jen See