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Know Your Tour! Stage 9: It's All Downhill

Know-your-tour_mediumThis may be the least informative KYT! we do, but I simply can't write from much experience on today's topic. You see, I am a pretty lame descender. It goes well with my climbing, and in fact I can thank my climbing for ensuring that when I do descend in a race, I don't have a lot of company. At least, not before the bottom, by which time my superior momentum (ahem!) will sometimes slingshot me back into contention...

Anyway, back to the (un)real world of the Tour de France. Stage 9, while featuring the highest point in the Alps on this year's route, may be heavily influenced by what the riders do coming off that climb, the Col de la Madeleine. Maybe not, as there's a flat after. But while we know the names of the guys who go up quickly, you might not know the guys who can use the downhill portion to extend a lead or make up a gap. Just because a guy can climb doesn't mean he knows what to do when, inevitably, he must go back down.

Star-divide

First, some skills talk. The basic function involves knowing how to lean your bike through a turn, which coaches may tell you involves leading with your head (free your mind and your torso will follow?). The basic handling skills are something you'd expect everyone to acquire. The other part is getting low on the straightaways and hanging on for dear life. Coaches out there, feel free to add some finer points here.

Next is knowing how to choose your line. This is a matter of judgment/feel. Ideally you'd shoot for the tightest arc possible to save a few meters and therefore seconds in the turns. To locate the right line involves seeing it; to execute that line involves braking just the right amount, not so much that you dump speed and crawl through a turn when you didn't have to, but not so little that you overshoot it and invite disaster. Pretty intuitive to anyone who's even driven a car. This part of the equation is where cyclists start to separate a bit. Some guys have a better feel for this than others.

The last part, probably the most important, is confidence. Or a death wish, whatever you want to call it. But some guys are simply less afraid/cooler under the pressure of a big descent. Sometimes casual descenders will find their inner death wish when they're in fear of losing the race. In any event, the psychological hurdle is real, even at the top levels.

I don't have a comprehensive list in mind of guys to watch, so I'll ask the community to chime in on who their favorite descenders are. But a clear #1 is Samuel Sanchez of Euskaltel. He's a B-list threat to win in his own right, so he should be among the favorites at the top of the climb. Growing up near the gnarly Pyrenees is apparently a good way to master descending. Sammy once said his ideal race was just a long, non-stop screaming descent. Or something like that. Anyway, he's a madman, and terribly fun to watch. Not in attendance this year (boo) is Vincenzo Nibali of Liquigas, another noted descender. Nibali has actually served two functions with his downhilling, his own interests and those of his teammate Ivan Basso. The latter isn't a noted descender, but sitting behind a great downhiller like Nibali is good for a guy like Basso, who can take some confidence in watching the descent done well and seeing where the right lines are.

OK, that's all for now. I really love watching when descents really come into play. It's not often but it's truly awesome. Hoping for this Tuesday.

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Isn't Vino a pretty good decender

I figured his aggressive decent yesterday was less of a head fake attack and more of him using his style to stay with the elite pack longer in support of Alberto. Regardless, I seem to remember his descents looking good in past tours.

by gregwind on Jul 12, 2010 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

They said several times yesterday that Vino didn't seem to be attacking

he was just freewheeling away. But I saw him look back once and stomp on the pedals when he saw he had a gap.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 12, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

He ended up going back AND getting bottles

maybe Bert has some type of shock necklace around Vino

I'm proud of you boys, get them in 2014 when you really hit your prime!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 12, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I loved that

especially how Vino at first gently pointed the bottle at the guy on the front, then jabbed it at him . . .

Service with a snarl at its finest.

by R Mc on Jul 12, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes he is

in the Giro this year he proved that again

by perezbike on Jul 12, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love watching decents into the abyss.

The hardest part of cycling is having the balls to decend fast.

by DriftNasty on Jul 13, 2010 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I too hope the descent decides the winner.

It’s definitely a chance for Sammy, Evans, LA, Vino and whoever else can make the climb up front.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 12, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

evans descending wasn't all that great during the giro

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jul 12, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've never thought of him as being in the top rank of descenders

He’s more likely not to lose time than to make it up, but he handles a bike well and is by no means in the Schleck the Elder category.

by Drongo on Jul 13, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Evans has a pretty good descent

Cosmo had a pretty good vid of Evans and Gilbert going like bats out of hell downhill on Cyclocosm.com (but I can’t find the linky just now)

Warning... not everything I say should be taken entirely seriously

by addict on Jul 12, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Evans will be interesting tomorrow

By my reckoning he was the weakest of the guys who finished in the front group. If that continues he made need some great descending to try to catch up after he gets dropped.

by ursula on Jul 12, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was descending pretty well at the Giro as well

Even on the descent off the Monte Grappa on Stage 14, when he said he was “disgraced” with how he descended, he was still better than any of the other GC guys he was with.

by Douglas Ansel on Jul 12, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

One descending tip

from a terrible descender (no courage):

I improved a lot by following good descenders. You can learn a lot following their line and watching them closely.

Let’s hope for some good TV coverage of the Madeleine descent

moo

by Willj on Jul 12, 2010 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Or someone could recon the descent on their rest day.

    You gave them fair warning in your preview. ;-)

Woof

by flying dog on Jul 12, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

speaking of riders who aren't here at the tdf, denifl did a damn fine job at the dauphine.

sigh. i miss il falco.

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jul 12, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hope Sam San just drills it down la Madeleine

Like Laurent Brochard did that one year when he was wearing the Polka Dot jersey.

Levi is a pretty ballsy descender too… http://www.vimeo.com/8939902

by ThomasN on Jul 12, 2010 3:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Eh, no.

I’m also a Levi fan and Levi only descends well when he knows the road perfectly. Otherwise, he is a poor descender. If Johan had any sense, he would have sent Levi down Madeleine 3 or 4 times on their off day.

by tamburlaine on Jul 12, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easy for you to say

You’ve never raced against the guy. And he doesn’t have anything to worry about. He’s got RoadID….

by ThomasN on Jul 13, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I get nervous at 55+kph

Have no idea how these guys get the balls to do 100kph down a switchbacking mountain

Warning... not everything I say should be taken entirely seriously

by addict on Jul 12, 2010 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

100kph on the big straight downhills. Switchbacks not so much. I’ve hit 86kph on a big straight steep section of one of the local descents. It scares the shit out of me everytime and I slow down.

by mr. rogers on Jul 12, 2010 4:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Interesting input from Vaughters and Andy Hamptsen

in a Wall Street Journal article from the Giro last year:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124209602462609577.html

I like Savoldelli’s viewpoint that madmen don’t make good descenders but rather that
one must know exactly where the limit is and to push right up to that point but not beyond.

by CollegiateCyclingRocks on Jul 12, 2010 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

ah

good point, right. Madmen are the ones picking brush out of their jersey.

"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 12, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a college-kid in town

a semi-triathlete, who’s legendary for coming down the steep section of Steamboat whilst still on the aerobars.

(this doesn’t end well, btw),

Problem: the steep section ends with a 90 degree left-hand turn.

Miss it and you’ll be stopped by the barbed wire of a rancher’s fence.

Kid’s ok now, but I’m not sure he rides anymore.

by R Mc on Jul 12, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

should have pointed out

for the non-Taylor County locals, that the “steep” section in question is an 18% you can hit 50 mph coming down it section.

by R Mc on Jul 12, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's usually the sprinters, is it not, with the best skills?

Jenny van Hummel’s efforts last year come to mind. It was always fun comparing the time gaps for the top of the climb with those at the bottom of the descent. I thought last year the DSs had a poll and acknowledged Hushovd as the best in the peloton. MoncoutiĂ© not so good, if memory serves, but you probably don’t need a poll to tell you that.

by Drongo on Jul 12, 2010 6:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Kenny. Bloody auto-correct.

by Drongo on Jul 12, 2010 6:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, they usually are the fastest

They’ve got to catch back on and make up time for the time cut. Cav has said he dislikes descents because of how many risks they have to take to stay in contact.

by Douglas Ansel on Jul 12, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

thor!!!! cance!!!!

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jul 12, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Results of that poll in L'Equipe 21 jul 09

Best

First – Hushovd – 10 votes, Joint Second – Cance & SamSan – 6 votes,
Joint Fourth – LuLu And H Haussler – 4 votes; Chavanel, Di Luca, Popo – 3 votes
Garzelli, Nibali, Dumoulin, Lequatre, Van Hummel, Bertolini, Eisel – 2 votes;
Valverde, Voeckler, Bonnet, Dean, Lancaster, Furlan, Rosseler – 1 vote

Worst
1st – Moncoutie – 12 votes, 2nd – Schleck, F – 7 votes, 3rd – Soler – 6 votes
4th – Anton – 4 votes, Joint 5th – Basso, Moinard – 3 votes
2 votes each for – Di Gregario, Kern, Szmyd
1 vote each for – Leipheimer, A Schleck, Menchov, Evans, Voigt, Wiggins, Casar, Vogondy, Rolland, Roy, Perget, CA Sorensen, Schierlinchx, Cuesta, Hansen, de weert, Terpstra.

Who voted for who in this thread

Asked if there are any special diets among the nine riders he smiles: "Yes - nine. If they weren't special, they wouldn't be riding the Tour de France". Soren Kristensen, Chef, Team Sky

by andrewp on Jul 13, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Terpstra!

No f’n way!

"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 13, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still love this vid from last year

7 minutes of uninterrupted video of Cancellara catching up some serious ground on the decent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxXqQqAc2pA

by moxyberry on Jul 12, 2010 8:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Anyone who brings Cance to the table is very welcome here :)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 12, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if hypocrisy is mentioned?

Robert Gesink on the difference between football and cycling: "For us it's a lot harder to get yellow"

by Lopex on Jul 13, 2010 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not when it's spelled with two 'c's' and calls his character into question :)

Two sets of rules: oh the hypocrisy!

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 13, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

McEwan

I would love to see Robbie descend for once. From what I’ve heard, he’s supposed to be a great descender. When do we get the first downhill time trial?

by rikard on Jul 13, 2010 2:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I bet he is.

Great bike handler, fearless but not stupid, speedster.
How do we get Versus to train all the cameras on the autobus tomorrow?
Oh! Maybe they won’t be able to get out of his way.

by fancan on Jul 13, 2010 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hushovd, S.Sanchez and Cancellara

Those are the best descenders. I am still hoping for some Hushovd stunts in the mountains on this tour, like last year. Maybe today?

by Baunen on Jul 13, 2010 3:51 AM EDT reply actions  

He says no

could be sandbagging mind you but I think not

by Jens on Jul 13, 2010 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreeed on the top 3, Thor, Sam San and Cance

My favorite all time was Sean Yates. Just plain nuts.

by Mr Van P on Jul 13, 2010 5:42 AM EDT reply actions  

You are psychic... my bias is so obvious, that I thought it would just be seen as partisanship...

That said, whilst Stuey is very, very good, obviously at times he is dangerously bad… ask his ribs.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 13, 2010 5:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

LuLu looking for 5:03 to take yellow today

"My clients dont care shit about romandie or mello johnny" - singhstax

by PopUp Rolen on Jul 13, 2010 6:03 AM EDT reply actions  

whoah. too many tabs open.

"My clients dont care shit about romandie or mello johnny" - singhstax

by PopUp Rolen on Jul 13, 2010 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have read that

most of the best descenders are really the sprinter types at the back of the pack so we never get to see them. It would actually make sense since they are generally carrying more mass and most of them are fearless bike handlers. Thor’s abilities are obviously well documented.

I heard Yates hit 116 kmh once in a race. or 72 mph…

by Mr Van P on Jul 13, 2010 6:13 AM EDT reply actions  

I'd like to see Renshaw on the downhill..

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 13, 2010 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hushovd

Credits his descending skillz (yes, a zed is deserved) to skiing as a kid. My descending skills (no zed deserved) have improved as I’ve skied more – the whole weight transfer thing is basically the same

by thebongolian on Jul 16, 2010 8:16 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

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