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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

Yellow jersey Power Poll: Down To Two


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Pre-Race Poll here

Post-Stage 4 Poll here

See?  I told ya the Alps would be decisive! But why were they? Compare this race to last year's where the peloton went through the Pyrenees with barely a ripple-why is this year different? And why did so many riders fall off in the Alps? I see three reasons why this year's race is a lot harder:

1) The least important reason is there's no team time trial this year. Last year's TTT effectively eliminated several major riders way before we hit our first mountains but more importantly left one team, Astana, with its foot on the neck of the race. The twin story lines of the strength of Astana with Contador, Leipheimer, Kloden, and the return of Armstrong, plus the infighting between Armstrong and Contador not only colored the non-race headlines but seemed to intimidate the rest of the field. No other team seriously challenged Astana, not even Saxo Bank and the Schlecks even though Andy came in second. The race was all about if Armstrong could break Contador and that led to a tactical race and Contador, non-intimidated, handled all the decisive stages with ease. No one seriously challenged him.

2) This year there is no dominant team. Astana last year intimidated in classic Lance/USPS fashion. Yeah, Saxo was intimidated too and they were the only ones who even put up a fight. So the race was an Astana intramural affair, which meant tactics, which meant less attacking. This year Astana is joined by Saxo, Rabo, and Caisse d'Epargne as strong teams . More strong teams means a faster race.

3) Most importantly, Andy Schleck is no longer intimidated (much. More on that later.) He has matured into a top Tour rider who will eventually enter into the ranks of the great Tour riders in history.  This year, Andy is ready to give Alberto a real challenge and that's what he's done. In doing so, he blew away some very good Tour riders who hung around the top last year because of the slower pace: he proved for all to see that while he and Bert are A-class Tour riders, the rest are B-class.  

So how do we rank Andy and Bert? Check out on the jump...

Star-divide

Powerpoll_medium

(Numbers in parentheses are their rankings in the pre-race and second polls)

Going for the win

1. Albert Contador (1,1)

2. Andy Schleck (2,2)

 

We all know that these two are a cut above the rest. How's it gonna play out? The first thing to note what we all know almost as much as these two guys are the top two: that Contador can out time trial Schleck and Andy's 41 second lead at present is not enough for him. Probably he needs at least two minutes and maybe three or more before that last flat and possibly windy time trial on stage 19. So the onus is on Schleck to attack Contador. 

(The interesting thing is that in the last two days Schleck has said that because he is in the lead, Contador has to attack him. No one, including Contador, believes this, and it's a change for what Schleck has said before too. So why would Andy say this? Why would he attempt a mind game with Bert? Same reason any rider who is very worried about a rival would: there's still a trace of intimidation remaining. His stage 8 10-second gap was encouraging but until he actually beats Bert he's got to wonder if he can. And so the claim that Bert needs to attack him.)

There's stage 12 that ends in Mende that might see some fireworks between the two, but anything decisive will happen in the Pyrenees: stages 14-17.  How might it happen?

Most likely Andy will attack starting on stage 14. Contador will just try to cover. This will continue through the next three stages until either Contador cracks or Andy exhausts himself and Contador counters and cracks Andy.  So who has the advantage? On stage 8, the advantage was Andy's and he got 10 seconds on Bert. Stage 9 saw a stalemate as Bert covered Andy's repeated attacks. It was said after the stage that Andy has exhausted himself and if Bert had attacked near the top of the Madeline, he would have gaped Andy. But who knows if that's really true? At any rate with the long run-in to the finish, an attack by Bert so close to the top would have proven meaningless and so Bert was content to sit back. 

So who has the advantage in the Pyrenees? I say Bert because he is looking for that third week peak and definitely got stronger in the Alps as they went along. I'm not saying that Andy will tail off; he should keep his form that he has already shown. But it says here that Bert will cover Andy's attacks then when he chooses, he'll attack and KO Andy.  That's what I see as most likely but, hey, its close enough that possibly Andy gaps Bert. My odds of what we'll see after the Pyrenees and before the time trial:

- 50% Bert in yellow 

- 25% Andy in yellow with a small (less than 2 minutes) lead

- 20% Andy in yellow with at least 2 minutes on Bert

- 5% that one of them cracks so much that one of the next three riders sneaks into 2nd. 

You of course would put up different odds. Whatever happens though:  it will be fun.

 

Whoa! What was that 5% thing you said? The riders shooting for the bottom podium step

3. Samuel Sanchez (5,16)

4. Denis Menchov (3.4)

5. Levi Leipheimer (11,14)

There's a slight chance that Bert or Andy might go so far into the red in their fight that they just lose it on a climb. (I strongly suggest that Astana and Saxo place a climber in the first group chasing Andy and Bert so if they do crack they won't be alone too long and so can minimize their losses.) If so it will be these three riders who will take advantage. We know these guys: great Tour B-class GC contenders. All have been on a podium or two or three in a Grand Tour with Menchov winning three of them. They're all descent climbers, they like the Pyrenees in particular, they know how to peak in week three of a Grand Tour, they will stay within themselves on the climbs, and they can all TT really well.  That combination is gonna make it hard for any other rider to jump ahead of them plus it will leave them in position to take advantage if either Andy or Bert overcook themselves on a climb. (Particularly Andy since his time trialing is not on the level of these guys.)

So how do you rank these guys? Hell if I know. I have them in the GC order that they are in today but that's fairly meaningless. They basically start off even in my book. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After the top five, things are still really murky. You got climbers who can't TT well, time trialists who aren't the best climbers, inexperienced riders, and riders who really put out in the Giro and so might fade. All of these guys are fairly close to each other too. What to do? Go with veterans and climbers, then make exceptions! Ha!

Top Five is what these guys are hoping for

6. Roman Kreuziger (7,7)

7. Bobo Gesink (17,--)

These two guys are fighting for the next spot I think. I give the nod to Roman because Gesink is time trialing so poorly this year, but I could see the positions reversed.  Great to see Bobo come back from his arm fracture.

8. Joaquin Rodriguez (10,21)

This is the last guy here who has a chance at a top 5 or even the podium if he rips the Pyrenees.  He's far enough back that Andy and Bert won't automatically cover a move by him. He's just got to be patient: the Tourmalet is a little longer than Wolf Mountain. Ax 3 might be right in his wheelhouse. But first, let's see him make a move at Mende. 

Top Ten hopefuls

9. Jurgen Van Den Broeck (20,9)

A very nice Tour for this first time leader and *Lotto must be very happy.  I have him drifting lower here because he's not quite the climber of the guys above and his chrono abilities are not good enough for him to leapfrog them either. 

10. Lulu Sanchez (18,12)

Lulu's a tough one. Going on that break on stage 9 was fantastic and pulled him up so that his goal of a top 10 finish is within reach. I have him drifting lower than he is at now (8th place) because I wonder if he can handle the Pyrenees. What he has going for him is that his team is pretty aggressive and I can see him going on another break if necessary with his team again supporting him. Also he's riding for a contract on another team since Caisse d'Epargne is most likely about to die. (Which explains why on almost every stage (or is it every?) we see at least one Cd'E rider on the break. They are all auditioning.* If he does survive the mountains, the time trial is to his advantage.

* Now ask me why the Milram riders aren't similarly aggressive. Go on: ask. Maybe the new Team Luxembourg has already hired them? 

11. Ivan Basso (9,23)

12. Cadel Evans (8,3)

These two Giro vets hope to find a peak in the Pyrenees and if they do they could move up higher than 11th and 12th; especially Evans since he should then rock the time trial.  But I want to see them peaking first. 

13. Ryder Hesjedal (21,11)

Gutsy ride by Ryder but his career which has only ever been on an upward trend suggests that he can do this and possibly crack the top 10.  Garmin's Tour team next year: a two headed GC campaign with Hesjedal and Le Mevel? 

14. Alexander Vinokourov (16,8)

15. Michael Rogers (12,15)

If these two can hang reasonably well in the mountains, the time trial will move them up from here.

16. Brad Wiggins (5,4)

17. Thomas Lovkvist (--,13)

Sky has had its comeuppance in this Tour.  But what will be more fascinating will be how they react. Buy a different GC guy? Place their eggs in their developmental basket? Both? Stay tuned. 

18. Nicholas Roche (23,10)

Cheeky move by Roche today but Wiggo and Lovkvist can climb as well as him and they'll rip him apart in the TT.

19. Carlos Sastre (19,22)

Hey-I gotta fill out a top 20, so I'll serve up Carlos in the 19 hole.

20. Anderas Kloden (14,18)

The Andreas Kloden retirement watch officially begins. Might take a year, but his relevance in the GC is now gone.

Out of the top 20: Armstrong (13,6),  Brajkovic (--, 17), Karpets (--,19), Le Mevel (22,20)

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andy was spent after stage 9. there was the camera shots of him just sitting on the road with staff around him after the stage was over.

whether or not conta could have cracked him on the madeleine is open to conjecture. but, conta had other priorities… putting time into other opponents.

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jul 14, 2010 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

That would have been a bitch move

seeing they likely agreed to not attack each other in the deal they struck. Even in the finishing sprint they were looking at each other as if they didn’t want to gap to open between them.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is attacking a "bitch move?"

If they didn’t want a gap to open up between them, they should have just held hands across as they crossed. The Tour lacks rivals, and all these niceties between the two top competitors make me a tad uneasy. They should be at each other’s throats not making sure they congratulate each other on Twitter post-race.

"My clients dont care shit about romandie or mello johnny" - singhstax

by PopUp Rolen on Jul 14, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because they agreed not to

breaching an agreement is a bitch move. Andy saw he couldn’t drop Bert, Bert had no intent to attack Andy yet. So they agreed to ride together and gain enough time to all but eliminate all the other riders on that day, it’s only stage 9. Andy will definitely be trying to drop Bert throughout the Pyrenees, they won’t ride hand in hand. Sorry if you don’t like sportsmanship.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was their an actual agreement?

It was definitely in their best interests to work together, but both riders need to take every advantage they can, and if Bert could have gapped Andy on the descent or at the top of the climb, then he should have done it. If Andy would have fallen on the descent, should Bert have waited?

I understand where you’re coming from, I just don’t get why you would make an agreement with your rival when so many things can change in the last 30k.

"My clients dont care shit about romandie or mello johnny" - singhstax

by PopUp Rolen on Jul 14, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry for that last line btw, it was unneeded

I don’t know if there was for sure but you could see them talking and then Bert started to help the chase. I see Andy needing to get the gaps while Bert is content to stay where he is on GC. Andy did attempt to attack but Bert was too strong. Plus I doubt he could have known Andy was weakening at the top and maybe he wasn’t. If Andy fell and couldn’t get up right away then I assume Bert couldn’t have waited to see if he was OK. The last 30km being downhill eliminated any chance of them duking it out as well so they took it safe on the descent and lived to fight another day

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andy says as much in this

Lead item on the linked page he admits going into the red on the climb and discusses what he and Bert were talking about

http://www.itv.com/sport/tourdefrance/newsandvideo/

Asked if there are any special diets among the nine riders he smiles: "Yes - nine. If they weren't special, they wouldn't be riding the Tour de France". Soren Kristensen, Chef, Team Sky

by andrewp on Jul 14, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Lance can't intimidate Bert with mental games then Andy sure as hell can't either

I like his confidence but some of his trash talk is a bit petty.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I think of it more

As Andy pumping himself up. Telling himself that he can win this. After all this is uncharted territory for Andy.

by ursula on Jul 14, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah well for his sake I hope he isn't pumping up Bert as well

for my sake I hope he is. But it is nice to have some fun trash talk without the drama and annoyance.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah for reals.

He needs to settle it down a bit. Talk the smack after you win a tour.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Having a bad day = Lose TDF

It has already happened to Lance and Cadel – So, maybe the first 4-5 guys can still win the TDF. Contador is still the favorite, according to CW.

by rubesANdbabes on Jul 14, 2010 3:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Was trying to explain this to my wife the other day....

You can’t win the TdF in one day, but you sure as shit can lose it. I compared it to the old and tired baseball cliche: You can’t win the pennant in spring but you can lose it.

by ITT on Jul 14, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lance had no real chance.

Cadel had a chance only if he stayed healthy and if Alberto and Andy crashed or bonked like Floyd Landis.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lance did pretty good last year

I’m actually pretty bummed he is doing so poorly. Great buildup fizzling

Robert Gesink on the difference between football and cycling: "For us it's a lot harder to get yellow"

by Lopex on Jul 15, 2010 5:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

He did well enough because he had a teammate on the lead.

Had he not had Alberto on his team, the results would have been different. Lance is a great cyclist but his time ended when he retired.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

"an attack by Bert...

…so close to the top would have proven meaningless and so Bert was content to sit back."

it’s kind of what i’ve been thinking about andy’s 10 sec gap on bert.

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 14, 2010 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

To the list of reasons why it's down to a two-man race, I would add--

Blind freaking luck. If Cadel and (to a lesser extent) Lance had not crashed out , or if Andy had had to pay the price of his crash on stage 2, it might well be a very different race.

That said, we are where we are, and I have to think AC is sitting pretty. One of the reasons Andy beat him on stage 8 is that AC felt obliged to cover attacks by other riders… now that need is pretty much gone and AC can focus his attention on Andy. Plus, Saxo will be spending a lot of energy if they decide to defend the jersey.

Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 14, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

good point

had stage 2 not been (somewhat) neutralized, bert would be all lonely on top of gc right now.

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 14, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way Lance and Cadel could have followed Andy and Bert yesterday

they would probably be around where Levi or Menchov is had they not crashed but Andy and Bert are by far the best riders at the Tour.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree about Lance... not so sure about Cadel.

Remember that his ride on Sunday, when he finished half a wheel behind AC, was done after he broke his elbow. That’s pretty impressive. I know the conventional wisdom is that Cadel must be tired from the Giro, but it’s also possible he’s got an incredible base from the Giro.

But we’ll never know now how good (or bad) he would have been.

Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 14, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Broke elbow or not

Giro fatigue or not I see Cadel having been in the Rabo boys group anyway. Maybe he could have stayed with Sanchez but the top two guys are in whole different league.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he'd stayed with Sanchez...

The GC would now be:

1. Schleck
2. Evans at 0:30
3. Contador at 0:41

Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 15, 2010 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

cadel can't follow sharp accelerations. he's never been able to. he grind's away and grinds away.

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jul 14, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

And his opponents have matured

It once was Cadel loses time on the big climbs. Then the climbers lose time on the TT.

But I don’t see Cadel gaining realistic time on Contador in the TT. Sure, if it was Cadel vs. Schleck, maybe. But the story line just doesn’t work for Cadel vs. Contador.

Basically, I think the window on Cadel winning the Tour has shut. The competition is too strong.

by lieutenantmudd on Jul 14, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, to your last sentence.

Sad, but there it is. he joins the list of very good riders who couldn’t quite win the Big One or even the Not Quite Big Ones: Evans, Levi, Kloden, and Rogers are the elder statesmen of the club at present.

by ursula on Jul 14, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lance can't hang with Alberto and Andy.

Crashes or not, he was off the back easy everytime they climbed.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

It sure seems like two people

But I think there are enough crazy stages left in the PyrenĂ©es that your 5% for “all other” could really be about 10% ;)

moo

by Willj on Jul 14, 2010 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Is the ITT that certain?

Frank, who is not even as good as Andy in the discipline, wins the TdS with a great ITT. Bert, who beat Cancellara in the TDF long ITT last year, loses the Dauphine basically because of a very poor ITT. This idea that Bert should feel he has the race won if he’s within 2-3 minutes of Andy going into the ITT seems very dangerous to me. You never want to go into the final ITT trailing, period, no matter how much better you think you are than your rivals.

Think of all the poor TTers who have pulled off a great one when it counted in a GT: Cunego, Valverde, Heras, not to mention the enormous improvement in Basso (pre-OP) and Bert himself.

by OMJ on Jul 14, 2010 5:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Good points.

I would guess that if Andy’s lead stretches out to 2+ minutes, then Bert’s chances would start to look mighty dim. And Bert will definitely not want to give Andy any more time than he already has.

by ursula on Jul 14, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

And . . . Savoldelli in the 02 Giro

who handed Hamilton’s good collar-bone to him in the final time trial to lock down the pink shirt.

by R Mc on Jul 14, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jani killed the TT

and now where is he? Seriously, way too many people read far too much into the Dauphine result. Bert was not at top form yet(and Jani was peaking for the race but that’s a different discussion) and had Andy been there he would have probably been 3:30 back.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely

Andy looked “bad” all spring and early summer in my opinion. And now look, he’s shredded the race Tuesday.

(Bad is a relative term)

by lieutenantmudd on Jul 14, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andy is climbing awesome.

He just doesn’t quite have it to put big time into Alberto.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know

He’s climbing awesome during the Tour. And my point is that his “poor” climbing this spring meant absolutely nothing. He wasn’t weak at all. He was just peaking for the Tour.

by lieutenantmudd on Jul 15, 2010 6:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do think his "bad" climbing in the spring was a result of the kneeinjury

he had early in the season setting him back. It had no long-term effect on his TdF prep though.

by Jens on Jul 15, 2010 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's interesting though - he even looked ropy at Suisse

Where on the stage that Bobo won he had a good hard dig and then blew up relatively spectacularly

Warning... not everything I say should be taken entirely seriously

by addict on Jul 15, 2010 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

blew up or shut it down???

Looked more like a shut-down to me . . .

by R Mc on Jul 15, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

It is always a blow up.

For Andy, he knows he has to get big time in the mountains.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

le mond Vs fignon anyone?

"If I'd attacked one more time I'd have dropped myself." Schleck Jr

by perezbike on Jul 14, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which of the top 10 - minus bert & Andy

are better climbers on the steeps of the Pyrenees as opposed to the Alps?

by roadside on Jul 14, 2010 5:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not one who can definitively say rider X is better in one mountain chain as opposed to the other

But I can note which riders have had good riders in the Pyrenees plus which riders have had strong week 3’s:

 Levi, Mench, Sastre, Evans, Samu is a good third week guy. Basso is good in the third week normally. Most of the others are relatively untested.

by ursula on Jul 14, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Menchov loves the Pyrenees

He has said so and has the goods (Vuelta’s) to prove it. I put him at 5% alone. He is going to attack in the Pyrenees and if he doesn’t fall off his bike on an uphill corner I think he is going to surprise people.

Sammy and Levi all traditionally do better in the Pyrenees too so it seems like it will be fun!

by Markk on Jul 14, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can someone explain to me how the Pyrenees and the Alps are different?

Isn’t it totally dependent on which climbs the race happens to select?

by lieutenantmudd on Jul 14, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pyrenees are steeper

at least usually in the Tour, I remember Will saying that the Alps had plenty of steep climbs but they aren’t used in the Tour because they are remote.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Having a rivalry like this helps the rivals I think

over everyone else. You get pulled along with the other guy. And since the other guy is the best person in the race other than you it is pulling both away from everyone else.
It gives nice focus I think.

by Markk on Jul 14, 2010 7:17 PM EDT reply actions  

It is very similar to last year.

Only Andy lacks Frank to help him crack people like they did Lance last year. Andy is much stronger. Yet Alberto is still on form from last year.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I pretty much agree with you...

I am wondering exactly how many matches Andy has burned and to me Bert’s plan is ticking along to perfection. He’s got Andy within a perfectly manageable time gap, knows he’s better in the TT and knows he can at least match him in the Pyrenees.

Andy just looked wrecked at the end of the stage over the Madeline – wrecked. I hope it’s an act because I’d love him to take the win, but just don’t see it lining up that way. The race for third, I feel is wide open. It’s gonna be a lot of fun to watch…about all I really know.

now sock-less and carefree.

by JustJoshinYa on Jul 14, 2010 7:27 PM EDT reply actions  

He has learned a lot

-restated
Yes I will say this over and over again until either the Tour is over or otherwise is proven.

Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who do you reckon is the 3rd best climber this tour

So far I’d say Andy – Contador are followed by either Samu or Gesink.

Robert Gesink on the difference between football and cycling: "For us it's a lot harder to get yellow"

by Lopex on Jul 15, 2010 2:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Sanchez has finished ahead of Gesink on both big climbing stages

And ahead of Contador on one of them.

So I’d say it’s him.

Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 15, 2010 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're right

It slipped my mind Samu did well on the 2nd mountain stage too. Rabo DS said Samu always has one bad day so he sees chances for Menchov for third.

Robert Gesink on the difference between football and cycling: "For us it's a lot harder to get yellow"

by Lopex on Jul 15, 2010 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Quote from Rolland
“Compared to last year when I rode it for the first time [when he finished 22nd overall – ed], it’s a much harder race this year. It’s much more demanding. Two days ago I was more tired than during the third week of the Tour last year.

CN
I wonder if this isn’t going to be a huge factor in this race in the end?

by Jens on Jul 15, 2010 2:48 AM EDT reply actions  

It has been already.

Those attacks by Astana and SaxoBank have shredded the field.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

1. I think some people underestimated the alps stages (4 tough days). In part, maybe, to more aggressive team tactics.

2. I cant remember, but was it this hot last year?

3. Did astana (radio shack boys now) get air conditioning? :)

moo

by Willj on Jul 15, 2010 4:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't think it was as hot

Though there were a lot of hot air.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 15, 2010 4:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

(chuckle)

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jul 15, 2010 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was definitely aggressive.

Both teams are riding like a train, no stopping.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is fascinating because Andy is not going to stop trying

And I think he only needs one attack to work (so long as it happens low enough down a mountain). If he unhitches Bert at all, I can see him taking 30 seconds to a minute in one stage – which would give him a chance to hold on in the ITT.

Of course, he has to unhitch Bert to start with. Which is a big ******* ask given that he is the only guy that Bert will mark (unlike round 1)

Warning... not everything I say should be taken entirely seriously

by addict on Jul 15, 2010 7:19 AM EDT reply actions  

It's a hard game for him

He has to dig deep enough to drop Contador but not too deep that he can’t cover a Contador counterattack.

Maybe Frank would have helped him here. Contador would have to chase Frank for awhile and then Andy could put in a big dig when Frank and Contador are tired. The important thing is that Frank would have to attack until he couldn’t ride anymore – he couldn’t try riding for himself and Andy simultaneously (ie last year)

by lieutenantmudd on Jul 15, 2010 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

He has the heart and the will.

No denying, I don’t think he has the TT legs yet.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both of them need more time to feel completely safe

- but Andy needs it more.

So, the question is – will Contador attack. I think he will, not because he has to but because that’s how he is. If he doesn’t attack on Ax-3 or Tourmalet, it’s because he hasn’t got it – or Mende.

by Forstoppelse on Jul 15, 2010 10:34 AM EDT reply actions  

That is a possibility.

However, if he can sit on Andy’s wheel, he doesn’t need to attack. Conservation of energy will make gobs of time in the TT.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Out of left field..

Does anyone think that…if Leipheimer ends up with no chance after 14…Radio Shack will go out to help Andy and blow Bert apart??

by JavanD on Jul 15, 2010 10:58 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't believe so.

RadioShack is having a tough enough time keeping up as it is.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

2nd place

They are in second in the team standings…. and it just seems to me that Lance is saving up for SOMETHING… not sure what though. Just a stage win?

by JavanD on Jul 15, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who can ride with Andy or Alberto?

Team standings and GC standings are two different worlds.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Team standings

they’re better off riding conservatively if that’s their objective. Get three guys in the top ten on the stage or so, and don’t worry about the stage win.

"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 15, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

They have no one that can stay with Andy or Alberto. The GC is proof of that.

by DriftNasty on Jul 15, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

evans

might not love the time trial. Leaning on his elbow? Also, you still use your arms for leverage. Or at least I do, which doesn’t mean anything w/r/t the pros.

"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 15, 2010 8:02 PM EDT reply actions  

ah, come on, chris, you're a pro.

(at what, i’m not sayin’)

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jul 15, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

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