Mr. Armstrong, really?
Given the people nominally in charge I'm supposed to believe that Armstrong had no idea what was happening?
almost 2 years ago
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hmmm...
Tailwind was founded by investment banker Thomas Weisel prior to Armstrong’s first Tour win in 1999. Armstrong, his attorney Stapleton and Bruyneel are now part-owners of the operation. Long-time Armstrong associate Bart Knaggs is president.
Source: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2007-08-10-discovery-shut-down_N.htm
and
Armstrong became of the principal owners of the team while still racing, but admitted that with his busy schedule with the Lance Armstrong Foundation and other commitments made it difficult for him to stay in close contact with the program.
Source: http://velonews.competitor.com/2007/08/road/why-tailwind-pulled-the-plug_13074
now sock-less and carefree.
perhaps he's indicating no ownership during USPS days - but seems clear he's been involved in the Disco days.
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He denies any ownership of Tailwind Sports
Which owned the team during the early US Postal years, but he was undeniably an owner when Capital Sports & Entertainment owned Postal, and Discovery.
"Do you think we are a bunch a girls?...Go and ride some cobbles and you’ll definately know that we don’t discuss perfume and shaving cream." - Dom
The articles suggest it was Tailwind...but I guess they might have gotten it wrong...
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 14, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Quote that jumped out at me...
“As long as I live, I will deny it," Armstrong said. "There was absolutely no way I forced people, encouraged people, told people, helped people, facilitated. Absolutely not. One hundred percent”
So it seems like his response to these newest allegations has been downgraded from the “I absolutely never used PED’s” variety to the “I was completely in the dark about what others were doing on my team, completely clueless”.
yep
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
That's not a downgrade
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point
But the quote also seems to indicate that he’s in damage control mode now, in regards to his good name. Once ex-teammates begin to come clean it’s just a matter of connecting the dots to Lance, and he knows it. Then all he’s got left is “well, I never encouraged others to partake in doping”, something he can hopefully still hang his good guy reputation on, as flimsy as it may be.
Yeah . . . what's odd about this story
is that Armstrong’s trying to get ahead of a negative meme that hasn’t really taken hold yet.
Is this the small-pox vaccine theory of public relations?
"...small-pox vaccine theory of public relations"
Gotta say you come up with some good ones and I think you’re right too. Sounds like he took on an interview and handed out some very clear answers, whether his detractors believe him doesn’t matter.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
He'd better have "nothing to hide"
I really hope he does. I’m also fairly pessimistic.
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
but what's gonna happen to his credibility?
how could i believe he didn’t tell others to dope if he lied for years about his own doping?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Let the wild rumpus begin !
“I did not have sex with that woman.”
“It depends on the what the meaning of “is” is."
“Read my lips: NO NEW TAXES. "
“I am not here to talk about the past. "
And now Mr. Armstrong with his emphatic denials about part ownership of Tailiwind Sports. Five minutes of my time on the Google disclosed dozens of references to that fact. Curiously however the Tailwind Sports website hotlinked me to a Chinese website….Methinks there is a van pulling up right now outside the Tailwind offices with federal agents seizing documents.
I think the stress of the upcoming Federal investigation is what caused Lance’s crashes in this Tour. I used to be a big fan of his, but no more….
page 7 of SCA deposition
Armstrong admits an ownership stake in Tailwind—but claims not to remember specifically—under repeated questioning—when he acquired ownership, but specifies that Bill Stapleton would know the answers and have documentation.
So . . . either he lied in a deposition or he’s lying now.
Didn't get the link
How does claiming not to now specifically when he had a stake = a lie, then or now?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
It's hard to read the questioning...
His answers are so misleading. For a detail oriented guy, there’s surely so much of his life that Stapleton apparently knows but LA himself doesn’t. Not saying it can’t be true…it’s just hard to believe (my opinion).
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 14, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He's very evasive thoroughout the SCA thing
Which, is no doubt what his lawyers coached him to be. You don’t, in that situation, want to offer up any more information than is strictly necessary. From that perspective, Armstrong’s testimony is rather masterful. The problem, of course, is that it seems to be increasingly contradicted by information emerging in the press at the moment. First the UCI donation thing, and now the team ownership question.
But the UCI are now supporting the SCA testimony, there was 25k from LA, and the other money was from one of his companies.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
I thought...
they hadn’t quite cleared up the matter of the blood-testing machine? But maybe I missed the dénouement on that issue.
I think the Comic is still chasing about the machine, but as far as I can see, McQuaid’s announcement earlier this week that they’d ‘found’ the receipt for the 25k puts the SCA question to bed.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
"I used to be a big fan of his, but no more…."
Thanks… keep moving….next in line.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
i hate to say it sminer, but I have a feeling the line is going to get rather large. Barry Bonds large.
"My clients dont care shit about romandie or mello johnny" - singhstax
Oh I don't know what you're talking about
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Was that from the world cup?
Oh wait, never mind. These people look happy/
"Do you think we are a bunch a girls?...Go and ride some cobbles and you’ll definately know that we don’t discuss perfume and shaving cream." - Dom
Also
The Manning/offensive line analogy that he used makes no sense….yes Lance, because Peyton and all those 350 pound behemoths who are there to protect him from getting pummeled of course perform in the same capacity on the field and therefore would naturally share the same exact motivation for doping, just like you and Floyd back in your US Postal days. (rolls eyes, lol)
Eh
I really have no idea where you were going with that post…but the analogy made sense to me. They are both leaders to their teammates, but that doesn’t mean they necessarily know what their teammates are on.
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Lance
with that comment is implying that a football player like Peyton Manning (somewhere in the 200-220 pound range) would have the same exact motivation to cheat as the massive offensive lineman whose only purpose on the field is to serve as a collective battering ram against the other team. You think that analogy makes sense? Cycling and football are apples and oranges….lineman and QB’s are nothing alike in terms of body type, that’s where his analogy falls apart.
If we were talking about Lance doping, then maybe
but we’re talking about teammates doping. Both Lance and Manning are very close to teammates who would have benefited from using PEDs.
It’s not a perfect analogy, but it’s applicable.
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Please read it again
He starts off by claiming that football lineman are widely known to have abused PED’s for some time……then he seques over into saying “just because his lineman use PED’s doesn’t necessarily mean Peyton does”……..the intent is clear……he’s trying to dissociate himself from Floyd’s doping by comparing himself to manning, except that analody is lame because football lineman/QB’s and 150 pound guys climbing 2000 meter mountains are nothing alike.
I’ll drop it now, agree to diagree I guess.
No.
He tries to deflect attention from himself and cycling by saying “hey, everyone knows that NFL lineman use steroids.” Which will win him lots of friends from casual sports fans and sports writers in the US.
Then he basically says “just cuz that might be true doesn’’t mean that you should assume that Peyton Manning knows what they’re using, or even that they’re using, cuz he’s just a team-mate, not their boss organizing their ’roid program.”
Then we’re supposed to transfer that analogy over to his situation: “just cuz I was the team-leader (the quarterback), doesn’t mean I knew about or orchestrated any individual or team doping program that other riders on my team might have been on, since I was just a rider and not an owner and didn’t know any of the people who signed the checks”.
And aside from annoying American football fans by accusing linemen of being ‘roid hounds, that’s the part that gets interesting—this line of comments is almost as if Armstrong is conceding, and trying to get ahead of, a revelation that a Tailwind, or CSE-funded doping program might have existed.
ja
I think that’s where he’s going with this one also. That he didn’t know and wasn’t actually an owner of the team, so whatever his team-mates – who are likely under subpoena, or will be – did, they did on their own. There was no conspiracy to commit fraud or any of those other nasty things that keep popping up in the media reports on the investigation.
Anyone who thinks linemen aren't on roids needs to wake up to reality
I think most know and just don’t care(seeing linemen really only entertain fans when they deliver big hits).
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
Well fortunately cycling can't have doping be an acceptable practice
the fans do care and of course those same football fans probably call out cycling for being full of cheaters(ah hypocrisy). Oh and are linemen really athletes or just fat asses with some technique needed to be learned?
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
Can you all go over to cyclingnews.com's forums
This website is supposed to be about cycling. Not HWMNBM Haters and FanBoys.
Why did I waste my lunch break reading all this garbage?
you're right
this has nothing to do with cycling.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Come on, the comments are ridiculous
This does look like a thread for fanboys and haters, as opposed to genuine cycling enthusiasts.
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
not saying some aren't of the utmost quality
but the “this website is supposed to be about cycling” statement does seem to be a little ridiculous to me (to claim that this discussion is not about cycling)
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
by ant1 on Jul 14, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll agree to that
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I stand by my statement
Getting guttered at 50 kph is cycling.
Bonking 10 km from the top of the last climb of the day is cycling.
Suffering to hang onto the tail end of the lead group is cycling.
This rhetoric, here say, and prejudice is not cycling. Lazy bastards need to get their heads out of their asses long enough to actually enjoy the sport they probably only got into because of HWMNBM.
Hey stop talking about bastards
please make sure everyone of your comments relates to what is happening in a cycling race. Never mention your lunch either, we don’t have enough space here for non-cycling related material. Do not mention a Harry Potter figure because Harry is not racing in the Tour either.
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
Oh and refrain from having an opinion
because it is clearly only your rhetoric and prejudice, how can you enjoy cycling with opinions getting in the way?
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
so we're not talking about cycling here?
or are we not talking about the aspects of cycling that you’d like us to?
this lazy bastard with his head up his ass who only got into cycling because of lance but doesn’t actually enjoy it wants to know.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Damn gravitational pull that forced you to read this post and comments
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
by Phil H. on Jul 14, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Exactly! Please, everyone who doesn't want to read about Mr Armstrong skip this thread.
If it starts to become a topic in the live threads or other threads where it is Off Topic then it is a problem. This thread will be the proper place to talk about this NY Times article and it’s implications. Bring your opinions but also respect others’ opinions. End of rant.
Woof
by flying dog on Jul 14, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Some of the comments are high quality and insightful
Some are biased and border on hater tot nonsense.
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's see...
someone with under 50 posts is now instructing people what they can and can’t post on a clearly labeled “armstrong” thread, outside of the racing threads? How does this add up?
PdC had a ban on discussing Lance’s theoretical doping back when a) Lance was not riding and b) there was no new evidence, and no new investigations, of Lance’s potential involvement in doping. PdC also has a gentlemen’s / gentlewoman’s agreement not to discuss doping in race threads, and ideally not to interject in randomly in non-doping-related threads.
The current thread does not violate any on these policies. The blanket “HWMNBN” / “HWDMNBN” ban essentially ended when Lance became a current rider again, and the last vestiges disappeared when new allegations and investigations started. The “not in live threads / don’t hijack threads” is in full force. But guess what? This is not a hijacked thread. If you don’t like this topic, you can be mature and go almost anywhere else on PdC and successfully ignore the ACTIVE, CURRENT, MASSIVE investigation into doping practices of, near, and around Lance Armstrong.
Mr Verbruggen, really! At your age!
Hard to believe the real Hein Verbruggen would be dumb enough to do this.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Verbruggen always carried a torch for Lance
No wait, http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2001/sep01/trackworlds/MGlance1.shtml
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
http://www.homestarrunner.com/fakewebpage
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I must have erred posting the link. Try this one
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
"That's the truth and that's what the contracts say and that's what will come out."
Whatever the truth is, it seems like it will come out easily enough. Just check the contracts. Seems like a fairly simple task for a lawyer.
http://www.bah.net/
by dees ees en drama on Jul 14, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions
Wouldn't be so sure about that.
Stapleton’s answers (quoted by Bonnie Ford from his SCA deposition) are pretty evasive about referencing, much less producing those contracts.
This sort of strategy is classic Armstrong: make a bold pronouncement (“I’ll publish all my blood values with Don Catlin.” "The SCA case proved that I couldn’t be a doper) that gets widespread media coverage, wait for attention to die down, then let the fact that nothing of the sort has actually happened sort of dribble out out of the attention of the major media.
I can't wait until in 10 years
Vino releases an explosive book about Contador doping through his first 7 TDF’s or some hard up Spanish cop darkly speculates (with no evidence, obviously) about Operation Puerto
Then we can all talk about that for a decade, before that in turn is superseded by the shocking scandal involving the cyclist who is right now 4 years old.
Rinse, lather and repeat. Wake me up when someone is charged/banned and we can move beyond idle speculation.
I dont see Vino as the memoir type
he’s a national hero, only the disgraced rat their teammates out.
"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"
Only one question Mr Armstrong
Why were you in the back seat of the car following Alberto Contador during the final time trial when he won his first TdF (the Rasmussen year) and why did all the press say you had something to do with the team. It may be a question of timing, but you were involved – or so you happliy had us believe at the time.
Asked if there are any special diets among the nine riders he smiles: "Yes - nine. If they weren't special, they wouldn't be riding the Tour de France". Soren Kristensen, Chef, Team Sky
More revealing than Armstrong intends, perhaps
He maintained that stories are being leaked to the media as part of an “agenda” against him and questioned the need for a federal probe.
“Would the American people feel like this is a good use of their tax dollars?” he said. “That’s for them to decide.”
That’s Lance Armstrong quoted in the Bonnie Ford article… but those words could just as easily have been spoken by Barry Bonds. Or Marion Jones. Or Roger Clemens.
And just the fact that Lance is trying to distance himself from the management of the USPS team? What happened at USPS that Lance thinks he needs to distance himself from?
MJB
The same thing happening to the other teams of that era.
It has been nothing but bad news from all around.
Yeah, I know, there's a lot that went on.
It was a rhetorical question.
There are at least five former USPS riders other than Lance who might be a subject of Nowitsky’s interest:
Andreu and Vaughters had the infamous instant-messaging conversation that was used in the Armstrong-SCA arbitration, and they’ve also admitted that they doped while on the USPS team.
Landis now says he doped while on the USPS team and has named names of others who allegedly did.
And in an odd coincidence, three former USPS riders tested positive, not long after leaving USPS, during major races that they won: Hamilton (Olympic time trial); Heras (Vuelta), Landis (TdF).
Heras probably doesn’t have to make himself available for the federal investigation, but the others are Americans and could be subpoenaed if they don’t voluntarily cooperate with the investigation.
MJB
uh-huh. parallel universe.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
It did happen
But then Bobby Ewing walked out of a shower again.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 16, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Armstrong
attorney explains apparent contradiction on Tailwind ownership
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/07/news/armstrong-attorney-explains-apparent-contradiction-on-tailwind-ownership_129107
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