The Plot Thickens: LeMond Subpoened in Armstrong Inquiry
by Jen See on Jul 16, 2010 8:55 PM EDT
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PrintAccording to an article in the New York Daily News, Greg LeMond has received a subpoena to appear before the Grand Jury in the Armstrong doping investigation. LeMond is requested to appear in Los Angeles on 30 July. Among other things, LeMond has several taped telephone calls which spill some sordid details from the Amstrong story. The investigation is moving quite quickly now, and in recent days news has emerged that a Grand Jury awaits testimony from several people who have received subpoenas. So far, no riders have been called to testify, though lawyers for several Americans currently riding the Tour have been contacted. Read more.
Also today, a Washington Post article solved what was for me a central mystery of this case so far. That is, yes, Landis said inflammatory things, but how did a federal investigation come together so quickly? According to the article, the whole story began as an investigation into the doings of Rock Racing. Though not mentioned in the article, the focus on Rock Racing may have resulted from the Kayle Leogrande case and the federal investigation into Joe Papp's alleged role as dealer to the stars. Papp reportedly imported dope from China and sold it to various riders in North America, and perhaps beyond. Read more.
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wouldn't be surprised to see coerced testimony
and tax evasion be the charges that stick.
Remember kids, Lemond has Stephanie McIlvain telling him on tape that Armstrong admitted to usind PEDs in that Indiana hospital room back in 96—testimony that she did NOT give in the SCA trial—mostly because she has a kid with medical problems and needed to stay employed with Oakley. (This is covered in detail in Walsh’s From Lance to Landis—including, iirc, a transcript of the tape).
And . . . why would Armstrong’s lawyer not have good records of when and how his client became an owner of the company that the lawyer was also an executive for?
broken link to the Washington Post story?
by RoadRash911 on Jul 16, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
But can they use the McIlvain tape, given as its recording broke the law? Maybe use it and then send LeMond to Sing-Sing as well?
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
it could probably
be heard by a grand jury (less than fully informed speculation on my part), but definitely would never be heard in an actual trial (which we’ll never see, anyway).
It's not illegal under U.S. federal law for a person to record his or her own phone calls,
with or without the consent of the other party to the call.
Even if the recording violated some state law (I have no idea whether it did), only federal law matters in a federal prosecution.
by Susie Hartigan on Jul 17, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
and the state laws in question vary from place to place. Some states are one party states and you can record calls without the other person’s consent and some states are two party states. I am not sure how the reconcile this in different state courts but the tapes effect public perception alone if they are aired could be damaging enough.
Given how central sports metaphors are to our culture
that’s actually a highly debatable premise.
But . . . I stand by my prediction that the charges that ultimately stick against Armstrong, Stapleton, and Tailwind will be garden variety criminal racketeering, coercion, and fraud charges, not simply doping.
wrist slapping offenses? really...
ask marion Jone how that jail time worked out for her
incarceration is still just that.
locked up, and controlled. Freedom denied. Yes you may get to run out side the fence at minimum sec, but you don’t get to go home……
Anyone who has every thought a working Photojournalist had a glam job needs to rethink...
by Christopher See on Jul 17, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
you could say that of just about any case
there’s always bigger fish out there. and how many gov’t resources are actually getting used up here?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
were you agains the marion jones/balco case?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Except
This case started as a trafficking and dealing case – with a possible side order of money laundering and tax evasion – not as a sports doping case. Maybe you don’t agree that those things should be against the law, but they are as of now illegal. So, like, you gots to enforce them and stuff.
wow
really heating up!
by the way – New York Daily News? that’s awesome! seriously, great find! ;)
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
Not as good as the New York Nightly News
which died along with prohibition being abolished.
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
Vinson
The writer pushing this story at the NY Daily News co-authored a book on Roger Clemens and steroids in baseball. He’s been working this story since it started, and seems to have been given time and a free hand from his editors to chase it. Since he isn’t chasing the Tour around France, he has a bit more time to pursue it than someone like Bonnie Ford at ESPN might.
Pure speculation on my part...
but I wonder if this grinding legal stuff is not a large factor in LA’s Défaillance
His head/heart does not appear to be in the race
wow
wish I could not have it and still get a Tour podium! ;)
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 16, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, 3rd place sucks
Especially after years off the bike.
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 16, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He was ok last year.
He did not have it to win. A 3rd place 5 minutes off the lead and 4 minutes off Schleck was a hinting at this tour. If he were only a few seconds I would say different.
whatever
Easy to blast out ridiculousness. I can’t stand the guy and his ride last year was impressive considering his time off the bike and injury before the tour. But again…whatever.
Getting tired of all the arguments around these threads these days. Wearing on me.
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 16, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
got that right...
Now, where’s that Festivus Pole?
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 16, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If the arguments continue
will you end up like this?
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
OMG! Where do you guys get this stuff !!!!
by RoadRash911 on Jul 17, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
That's f'ing disturbing. Wonder if it's real?
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 17, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
phil's lack of life, or...
…the freakout?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
STFU loser
it is pretty obvious that the freak-out is a dramatic reenactment of me after the WC loss of Germany. OK not quite that bad and yes JJY I do believe it is real, that guys little bitch brother(at beginning and end of video) has numerous videos of his bro, who clearly has anger issues, freaking out over stupid shit which has made his bro quite famous for all the wrong reasons(well Youtube famous).
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
nearly 30million views.
actually sad…damn…
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 17, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
It is
but still pretty hilarious, so schadenfreude?
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
Speaking of YouTube Famous
Try relaxing from worring about the TdF as “Fred Tries to Ride a Bike”
Now the question is, is this guy high on helium or what?
by RoadRash911 on Jul 17, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
http://fredfigglehorn.com/#/freds-corner/episode/2/7
That was quite an unpleasant experience
OK VERY unpleasant. But he seems to already have better bike handling ability than Frank Schleck.
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
I was meaning the freakout...
but now that you mention it…
now sock-less and carefree.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 17, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
and kind of working for his teammate too
plenty impressive.
"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"
Lets hope this doesn't turn into a three ring circus
like the Landis case did.
This keeps getting more serious, i’m guessing the next subpoena’s coming for Lance.
"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"
I'm hoping for justice too
I wouldn’t be surprised if they summon Tyler, Hincape, Lance … everybody after the race.
I’ve been furious for years about what I believe to be LA’s lying, cheating and doping. It has soiled the race and the sport. Now that we are getting closer to justice, I’m not so keen on it. But nevertheless, we must press on. Justice must be done and we deserve a clean sport.
by RoadRash911 on Jul 16, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand how digging the doping era back up again makes the sport clean
Or are you in denial that everyone who was anyone was doping between 1991 and 2008?
Everyone who is logical has already come to the conclusion that Armstrong doped. The people that do not think he did will not believe that he did, or care if a judge or jury says so.
What are you really trying to get out of it? Do you think the millions of people who love Armstrong are going to all of a sudden hate him, and you’ll join with them in a group hug? It’ll just be a more violent and vehement denial and defense.
by whistlingmountain on Jul 16, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
it wont be good for the sport
im not sure inaction’s good either. But i think its the legal matters with the doping, not the sporting idea of him cheating, that makes this a problem right now. Lose-lose scenario, if lance goes down, will his haters feel vindicated? I don’t think they will.
"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"
+1
no gifts
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
ok someone has to say it
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 17, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 17, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
want a cleaner sport
(not in denial and not naïve about it).
You could also make a case that Lance is a philanthropic hero, beat cancer, great athlete, etc. Believers will believe, others may be differently informed. This judicial process probably won’t be pretty. Tired of convincing people one way or the other. In the end, I really don’t want to argue about it… and would rather enjoy the next stage…
by RoadRash911 on Jul 16, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i think this will be much bigger than the landis case
which was “only” between him and the cycling authorities. this is federal. even if it doesn’t go any further than where it is right now, it’s already bigger.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Here is the Washington Post article
(link above not working)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/16/AR2010071603512.html
wow, this is getting serious
That explains, at least in my mind, why LA immediately turned around after crossing the finish line today and went to the hotel
by RoadRash911 on Jul 16, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
There's not a lot of meat in that article...
Doesn’t really tell us if the feds are finding anything, it just tells us where they’re looking and what they COULD find. And as it admits at the end, they’re going to need more than just a few people (especially people like Landis) pointing fingers.
And bottom line, Lance can always buy a small country and live there.
So… waste of time and money IMO.
Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi
there’s a quite lot in that article. It explains why a Federal investigation seemed to materialize so quickly (answer: it didn’t – this is a natural outgrowth of a pre-existing one), it confirms that the investigation isn’t just some pro-forma “we’re looking into it” exercise, and that this isn’t a personality-oriented crusade.
Well, it's informative, yes...
But to clarify… I don’t see much in there that is more damaging to Lance than what we’ve already heard. That’s not to say they won’t turn something up… but if they’ve found anything solid, they didn’t tell the Post about it. (Not that they should have.)
As for the investigation being “pro forma”… I for one never imagined it was. These are serious people. I guess I could see them launching a “pro forma” investigation if they were under pressure by public opinion, but if anything I would say that public opinion (outside of places like podium cafe) ranges from indifferent to pro-Lance.
Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi
Still can't see anything much happening
Politically, who wants to take Armstrong down in the US. And at some point, it always comes down to politics. The investigators will have their ears whispered in.
I do think though that this likely wouldn’t have happened if Armstrong had of stayed retired. Tarnishing his stellar reputation/legacy was always a huge risk – both of and on the bike. Unfortunately, his comeback was a bad idea.
moo
Yes, Agree - the TV sponsors seem to think so.
But I love the Lance comeback – it would be cool by me if he sticks around a while. He left the sport badly, ducking the Olympics and the Giro where his hotel would surely have been raided.
I feel the comeback is Lance trying to make the separate case that had he been able win cleanly in his peak era, he would have. I have my doubts about the current testing, but as I understand it, it is blood, hair, pee. I do not say my rationale for what Lance’ is doing is valid or honorable, and if they get him, I’m all for it, but that’s what I think he’s up to, and then also if necessary try to hide amongst the big sports PED users like A-Rod.
Yes, politics will likely come into play, and Lance is singing this tune, too. Novitsky spent millions going after baseball player Barry Bonds, so he is not in a position to back down from a career standpoint. Someone will have to slow him down soon or the US gov’t $ commitment will become large.
by rubesANdbabes on Jul 17, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
When Armstrong announced he was returning, I had the same thoughts – the downside was significantly bigger than the upside. If for no other reason, than it allowed new questions to be asked. People would always whisper (well, maybe whisper like in a helicopter), but it would be in the past. I think Armstrong’s ultimate undoing will be how harsh he was with other riders and people around the sport – there are many who wouldn’t mind him seeing him get his comeuppance.
Sometimes I wonder if there was a blind eye turned (particularly to the feel-good LA story) in ‘99 to try to rejuvenate the sport after the “Tour of Shame”, and the story got to big to reign back in. ASO/UCI didn’t mind re-opening the US market.
What bothers me the most is the hue and cry over cycling, when it’s pretty obvious that PED use follows anywhere competition takes place. I love the NFL, but when it came out that a punter was using, it was obvious that most, if not all, the players in the league are using. I don’t mean that as the “everyone’s doing it” defense, it just seems that the cycling headlines are more over the top in comparison.
by Badger the Bouncer on Jul 17, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn't have happened if they let Landis race the damn ToC.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
"I can't believe anybody would want to take Floyd Landis to the prom." Tim Herman
Armstrong’s lawyer Tim Herman commenting on Landis’ credibility. Personally I thought the sour milk comment would have been a better line to stick with. As in;
" I can’t believe anybody would want to take sour milk to the prom."
As long as Armstrong’s and his people are of the few continuing to speak on the record in this matter the press will keep going back for more comments. I’m not an armchair psychologist but I would guess this phenomenon would keep me busy and happy if I was. ;-)
Woof
Sorry 'bout the link in the OP
Had trouble with the Washington Post – kept getting a stupid log in screen.
Hope it works now.
random question:
who flips first?
Armstrong or Stapleton?
Because if Armstrong goes down, Stapleton will too.
They'll go down together (if there is any fire to the smoke)
If it is perjury that gets them – they both did it
If it is dope that gets them – Stapleton will have some trafficking violations whereas Armstrong may just have using
Both in a pretty tough spot now the feds are involved
Warning... not everything I say should be taken entirely seriously
Huh?
So far, no riders have been called to testify, though lawyers for several Americans currently riding the Tour have been contacted.
Where did this information come from? I can’t find it in the New York Daily News story.
by Chief Commissaire on Jul 18, 2010 11:27 PM EDT reply actions
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