Did Lance win yet?
by Jimbo... on Sep 10, 2010 6:43 PM EDT
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Over at ESPN, Bonnie Ford delivers yet another fascinating article on legend, role model, marketing machine, and potential future IPO millionaire, Lance Armstrong. Go Lance! Given the federal investigation looking into fraud and systematic doping by Lance and his team, one might expect a regular human to lie low for a bit... to turn it down to "5" or "6" (from the normal "11")... to at least take a frickin long vacation while things cool down. Not Big Tex! Hell no! Love him, hate him, or despise him, if there is one thing we can all agree on, it is that Lance is most definitely not a regular human being.
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Let's just get this over with...
… someone throw him into the North Atlantic and see if he floats.
Translated from Danish into English: "Bush league, psyche out shit, man! Laughable!"
The review for "Shark Sandwich"
was merely a two word review which simply read “Shit Sandwich”
Jens! Voigt puts the 'laughter' in 'manslaughter'
you can't print that!
where’d they print that?
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Sep 11, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
And knowing him..
He twits and 1000 fans will show up to swim alongside with him.
I used to be a big fan of the Racer Formerly Known as Bert! But then again, I used to believe in Santa ,Tooth Fairy and innocence of Floyd!
.
What would be an appropriate time
to reinstitute the Lance ban? Probably not yet, some people consider his legal cases “news.” But I am itching to pull that trigger again.
"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 10, 2010 7:07 PM EDT reply actions
[background]
prior to the comeback, there was an informal ban here for a year or so on discussing the contents of Lance Armstrong’s blood back in the day. It’s sort of like Sarah Palin: everyone already has a strong opinion, and discussing her does nothing but get people screaming at each other. I’ll have to weigh the factors again here, because part of the ban was due to the fact that, as a retired rider, there was no official effort happening anywhere to reopen his case, so discussion couldn’t turn up anything new. Not sure that’s true right now.
"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 10, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Presumably, there is going to be new stuff to discuss.
If anything, I’m noticing right now that in the absence of any new stuff, there isn’t much discussion of it here (happily). I don’t see a need for a ban if it’s quietly simmering in the background, and I don’t see the rationale for one if there is genuine movement in the story / investigations happening. I also sort of think we do awfully well self-policing in re: getting seriously obnoxious with each other over this. Too many relationships none of us want to sacrifice for the sake of whatever we think about LA.
FWIW.
Yeah, there will probably be new stuff to discuss...
But 99% of the discussion will fit into two categories:
“Guilty guilty guilty! Which is most appropriate, crucifixion or burning at the stake?”
and
“Yeah, he doped, and I don’t give a shit”
Even though the Lance discussions here are far more reasonable than elsewhere, I don’t think they add much. I’d be happy to see the trigger pulled.
Cazzo, it's going to be a bloodbath! The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. -- Michele Scarponi
no ban yet...
it is possible that the U.S. experiences its first massive cycling doping scandal involving many riders beyond HWSNBN. that is news. but if it stalls and only focuses on one person defrauding the government, yawn. opinions about said individual are already formed as mentioned below. implement the ban then.
"The motor happens to be me." -Fabian
please
pull
the
trigger
before it &^%’s with cross season, ;-)
Anyone who has every thought a working Photojournalist has a glam job needs to rethink...
by Christopher See on Sep 10, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, Boss?...
You do realize that nobody listened to you back then, right? There just wasn’t that much to talk about…
Jens! Voigt puts the 'laughter' in 'manslaughter'
True, but I did like the workaround that was invented and still used to this day of –
His
Name
Will
Not
Be
Mentioned
. . . . or something like that.
I swear i screwed up that acronym everytime I’ve tried to use it; but I love it just the same.
He Who Must Not Be Named
HWMNBN I believe for short. Some also may call him You Know Who, both perhaps initially references to Lord Voldemort from the Harry Potter books, a character of supreme evil who by the end of the books only has one-eighth or perhaps even 1/128th of a soul (according to my crude math) and who terrifies the wizarding population to such a great extent that even years after his original disappearance many will not dare to say his name out of fear. Completely over the top really, and utterly brilliant.
that's an interesting question.
Is the soul division always 1:1, leaving him progressively with 1/2, then 1/4, then 1/8, etc. or do they all somehow equilibrate?
I'm gonna have to say that a ban isn't necessary just yet
The Lance business isn’t out of control, and I do believe if anything comes out against him, this site, and all its amazing personalities can handle the discussion appropriately. I think that conversation will be rather unavoidable anyway.
"You know if there's any contact at all Cristiano Ronaldo's gonna go down...maybe even just a puff of wind"
dudes a marketing machine (not human at all)
I’m not a fan at all of the .com and .org similarity and knowing that it’s making him richer, but is it illegal? Is it wrong? I just don’t care anymore. Wish this (all of it) would just go away. Why’d he come back? Oh, I think the article addressed that (“In 2009, the first year of Armstrong’s comeback, revenues from those two sources spiked 29 and 44 percent higher than in 2008 in those eight months.”).
OK, said my peace. Peace out!
Yes, I will have an Ultra Liberal MoCo Latte please.
(piece)
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I'm lucky if I spell something close enough for firefox to correct it for me...
Anyway, thanks mom! :)
Yes, I will have an Ultra Liberal MoCo Latte please.
by JustJoshinYa on Sep 10, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it strange how we use first names for people we don't know at all.. . .
Somehow . . . “I believe Mr. Hamilton” doesn’t quite have the same ring as that other slogan, nor does the “Mr,. Landis fairness fund.”
So . . . instead of an outright ban . . . or using the voldemort acronym . . . I’d just encourage folks . . . unless Korioth, Livingston, Andreu, or McRae is lurking on the site, to just use Mr. Armstrong’s last name.
Kinda like we were working for the NY Times.
wall street journal (I think) is famous for that...
Yes, I will have an Ultra Liberal MoCo Latte please.
by JustJoshinYa on Sep 10, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Bah
What about the NY Post?
"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 10, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite baseball sex scandal story headline:
“Yankee Panky!”
"Good thing I never said out loud that I was pulling for France, before this all started." -Mark Blacknell
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 10, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
They are busy with A-Rod dating news
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
Or writing an English essay?
Personally, my rule here is based on,‘Which name is faster to type and easier to spell?’
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
la
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
The day I get paid like I am working for the NY Times is the day I will start writing like it
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
I get paid to write like a grad student...
But only in papers, not on the interwebs ;)
by Douglas Ansel on Sep 10, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude needs to not get busted until after August 2011
no reason for that specific date or anything…nope…not what so ever.
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
Ha, I can get behind that
Can we write a letter to our Fed investigators to slow down a little?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
It's government. Do we really need to slow them down?
Yes, I will have an Ultra Liberal MoCo Latte please.
by JustJoshinYa on Sep 10, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends
athletes cheating is about the only thing they really work hastily on.
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
There's some truth for us.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Sweet jesus
That may be the only thing you have ever written that I agree with
Jens! Voigt puts the 'laughter' in 'manslaughter'
Hehe, it is such a shame too.
The least important of all of our worries yet the most important to our machine.
LA is fighting a public image battle
and he’s likely going to win. He can’t beat Novitsky and the allegations coming his way, but the more of a do gooder he makes himself out to be, the more bitter and ugly the people coming after him are likely to look.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Maybe . . . but as soon as he starts to look . . . self-interested
or like he’s bullying other people, he’s in dangerous territory.
Ever see/read Dangerous Liaisons?
Yes I have, and I bet he has too.
He’s certainly been minding his p’s and q’s of late. It’s easy to surmise that he’s on high alert, and will keep his best about him.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
could we be so lucky
the marquis de merteuil is banished in the movie and is ruined with syphilis in the book.
vicomte de valmont commits suicide.
madame de tourvel dies.
in a manner of speaking, they all disappear. could we be so lucky with HWSNBN?
"The motor happens to be me." -Fabian
I wouldn't see his disappearance as a lucky thing.
The more active a participant he is in the sport, the more likely races (hell, cycling in general) are to survive and grow in the US. Draging his past through the mud for everyone to see does more harm than good.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
I kow you are absolutely right, at least in the short run
but Lance’s continued presence and the current line of defense that the LA camp seem to be preparing looks certain to once and for all hammer in the “cycling is a sport where everyone dopes” -stereotype and I cannot see this being good for US cycling in the long run?
I agree
“In the short run” goes right along with the general short attention span of people.
I just can’t blame the LA/camp for putting up this defense and whatever fallout comes from it. And it’s not really a “stereotype” that’s being hammered into the public… is it?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
I think two or three years ago this is absolutely true.
I’m not so sure now, partially because I think his reputation is already substantially damaged, and partially because it seems to me that the excitement wore off pretty fast this time.
In a sense, it was the classic ill advised comeback. You come back, are a pale shadow of your former self, and your myth takes a big hit in the process, leaving people a bit less excited about you than they were before.
Lots of hot air in this thread.
What about Lance kicking Kornheiser’s ass last spring? Without Lance sticking up as the face of bicyclists, that bitch takes a clean victory for the forces of wack over bikes.
There’s a lot of well-rounded opinions here about the drugs in biking, and helpful for others to have a chance to explore these ideas and reach their own conclusions as well.
Bah the ban! Lance is a pro rider on a pro team and will be next year too.
Well, no he won't.
He’s re-retired, for good this time from everything he says.
Perhaps he will un-re-retire?
Jens! Voigt puts the 'laughter' in 'manslaughter'
by Jimbo... on Sep 11, 2010 11:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"Don't you DDIFP fucking get it?"
“I rescued cycling. At least that’s what Johan fucking kept texting me—and interrupting my communion with a tecate, a plate of enchiladas, and some other tacos—when my legs were so damn hairy and I was gettin’ a little paunchy that Granny Watson had to airbruch my legs during the team camp photo shoot one of those years.”
“Do you think I WANTED to win 7 tours? Fuck no. I WANTED to sit back in a Gulfstream on the way to a board meeting or a motivational speech. But Bruyneel kept telling me that I needed to save cycling—that that UCI needed me (although since we kept paying ‘em money, I suppose it’s a little hard to tell the difference sometimes.”
“Was this last comeback a bad idea? Shit, I don’t know, but Horner said his kids liked getting paychecks on time, and RadioShack decided that given the choice between an ad campaign built around a tech-ignoramus like Horner, a charisma-challenged animal rights wacko like Leipheimer, or some orthodontia-deprived Central-European skeletor like Brajkovic, they’d go with me, thank-you-very-much.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_public_offering
Don’t know for what, though.
"you folks are a little loopy" - P. Stetina
It's all in the ESPN article
Demand Media (which Armstrong has a good chunk of) owns “the brand” and recently launched livestrong.COM (versus .org). Demand Media has plans for an IPO.
So basically “the brand”, which has already been earning some good $$ for Armstrong is set to earn him a hefty paycheck, assuming that the market sees value in “the brand”.
Gee I wonder why he (and his helpers) have hired some of these big guns to protect “the brand”…..
What’s this got to to do with Cancer Awareness? I’m not too sure, but these two quotes resonate with me:
Two heads of charity watchdog groups that rate nonprofit organizations said the deal’s apparent bundling of Armstrong’s personal financial interests with those of the foundation troubled them.
“This blurs the lines between the foundation and its charitable mission, and the personal gain of its founder,‘’ said Ken Berger, president and executive director of Charity Navigator. "It’s mixing two purposes in a way that smells of a conflict of interest. The most precious thing a charitable organization has is the public’s trust, and things like this put a chink in that.’’
Daniel Borochoff, founder and president of the American Institute of Philanthropy in Chicago, said he was uncomfortable with the arrangement, especially because Armstrong remains chairman of the board of the foundation. "Nonprofits have to be concerned not only with actual conflicts of interest, but the appearance of conflicts of interest,’’ Borochoff said.
By the way, hats off to Bonnie Ford, she continues to provide real reporting through this landscape and is always worth a read.
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
I assumed people would read the article that I linked to
Which is why I posted the link to the article. All snark aside, my intent was not to spark a hate-fest, which is 99.99% pointless, but to spark a discussion about the facts that Ms. Ford mentions in her article about how Livestrong.com is not livestrong.org. It is a for-profit site that is making money, and that Lance is poised to make a lot of money if the IPO happens. Something about the blurring of lines between non-profit and for-profit here bothers me. It does not pass my smell test.
Jens! Voigt puts the 'laughter' in 'manslaughter'
Agreed.
I’m not sure it’s illegal, but it does look… skanky. Do people buying livestrong branded stuff know whether they are contributing to the .org or throwing profits to the .com? I’m not so sure. I’d guess that Armstrong and his cohorts were careful to stay within the law, but they are certainly pushing close to the boundaries. I guess it also depends on how closely they expect to be scrutinized. If they think no one is going to look twice, they may have been much less careful with the law.
We’ll see anyway. Good reporting as always from Bonnie Ford.
Think how many people pay to wear advertising on their clothes.
No, I don’t mean cycling stuff, I mean coke vs. pepsi partisanship, or honking big clothing logos. My guess is that if they get a big yellow “Livestrong” to wear, a lot of them don’t really care where the money goes. I’m not saying that’s good, mind you.
agreed
a lot of that is just image. ‘look at me, i’ve got a yellow band on my wrist and twitter profile’-type stuff. the part that pisses me off is the millions that have been donated to livestrong.org, or given to whatever version of livestrong, be it through bracelet purchases, other gear, or straight donations, with the intent to help the cause that could have gone to cancer research. awareness is a wonderful thing, but has raising awareness done anything to solve the problem? the whole celebrity foundation thing pisses me off. damn self aggrandizing pseudo humanitarian tax shelter fraudations. you want to make a difference, get people to donate to existing charities. the kind that doesn’t fly celebrities and their entourage around the world so that they can get some positive press, expensive meals and posh accomodations.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
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