Podium Cafe Interviews Jonathan Vaughters: Part 1, Creating the New Garmin-Cervélo Team
by Jen See on Jan 10, 2011 4:53 PM EST
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PrintInterview by Chris Fontecchio and Jen See.
Welcome to the first episode of the Podium Cafe interview with Jonathan Vaughters. Today, we talk about how Garmin and Cervélo became one big team, a process Vaughters describes as a "tug-of-war." The UCI limits how many riders a team can sign. Consequently, not all the riders from Garmin-Transitions and Cervélo TestTeam could continue with the new team. No doubt the process left some bruised feelings along the way. Vaughters also had to sign the Cervélo riders he wanted, which meant negotiating new contracts. The way to true love — and world cycling domination — never did run smooth.
In this episode, we also talk about the new Garmin-Cervélo women’s team, which has evolved out of the Cervélo TestTeam. Vaughters candidly admits he is starting at "ground zero" with women’s racing. The team has a roster of ten riders this year with the goal of giving the riders more racing time. Whether the team grows depends upon what sponsor resources they can attract. Vaughters tells us he expects to have more ideas once he’s met the riders and got a feel for the personality of the team.
To the under-the-fold!
Tug-of-War: The Garmin-Cervélo Deal
PdC: I know you’ve told this story, but can you give us a sense of how the Cervélo deal came around? Did you go into the summer thinking you were looking to beef up the classics side of the roster or was this just a totally unique situation?
JV: It’s a very unique situation. We’ve obviously been friends with Gérard and Phil White and that whole gang for a while now. This is almost our second go-round with Cervélo, they came very close to sponsoring our team when they decided to go off and do their own team. Very friendly relationship. Gérard and Phil were looking for a partner who would keep their team afloat, and they ran out of time, they couldn’t find anyone.
So they came to us and said ‘we have X amount of money, and we’d like to honor as many of the contracts on this team as we possibly can.’ And, at that point in time it was a bit of a tug-of war, because they’re trying to honor their contracts but I’ve only got so many spaces available. And it was a matter of, how can we keep as many people happy as possible?
So he wanted someone to sponsor his team because he could not find a partner, and, I hate to say it but we were definitely his second choice! And we tug-of-warred with the numbers, which riders he wanted me to extend an offer to. Of course, it’s not a matter of honoring the contracts, the rider would have the option to go somewhere else if they wanted, it’s not that he gave me a contract and said, ‘now it’s yours.’ You can’t legally do that. So each and every one of those Cervélo riders had to be convinced that their best move was to come to our team.
PdC: Basically you're re-signing these riders all over again, you had to start new contracts because it was a new company.
JV: Yup, yup, yup. It's a new company for them. Slipstream sports LLP is still the company...
So those guys made their decisions, whether they wanted to stay or go, and we figured out the maximum number that we could take on without disrupting the integrity of the team that we already built. And got everything ironed out with Gérard to an acceptable point to where he decided his best move was to sponsor us as opposed to just pulling out of professional cycling altogether.
PdC: That would have been sad to see them go. He's so committed.
JV: Yeah! Gérard is a great guy, he's got a lot of passion for the sport, that's clear. He's a good partner to have in this whole venture. I like the guy quite a bit.
An Untapped Market: Women’s Cycling
PdC: On the women's team, I was chatting with Gérard Vroomen over Twitter, he mentioned you guys were going to carry ten riders this year.
JV: Yes.
PdC: And you're doing two-year contracts?
JV: Yep. And I know, there's been some talk, maybe you didn't bring the women to the November thing. One thing you've got to understand is, we now have a 15-rider continental team, and we've got a women's team and a pro tour team.
PdC: You didn't want to bring like 100 riders to the Caymans? [laughing]
JV: No! And so, the objective of that camp is that we have a lot of aces, as you guys noticed, in the pro tour team, we need to deal with this to make sure it's gonna work. So we checked that box firmly down there. So now it's on to Calpe camp, and the objective there is obviously training, but it's also to unify the men's team and the women's team. It's gonna be the first time that they're together, in January in Calpe, Spain. It's just a step-by-step process. And sometimes silence on our part — and this goes back to our talk about stability — everyone assumes silence means, it's about to blow up!
PdC: [more chuckles]
JV: Silence, a lot of times on our part means, we're not going to talk about this until the details are totally buttoned down because ... let's just make sure that everyone knows what we're doing, we've got a plan in front of us, and then let's talk about it. We try to under-promise and over-deliver, and that's the objective with this team. Let's not promise anything we can't deliver, but when the rubber hits the road, let's try to do this right.
PdC: Well, you definitely have the roster to get some great results. There's little to criticize about who the riders are and the talent you've brought in. Do you plan over time to let the team grow? I gather now you want to let the riders can actually race more. Do you anticipate growing or sticking to this plan?
JV: That depends. The first year Gérard is continuing with his sponsorship and we're coming in with Garmin. Long term, I think growing the women's program depends on our ability to bring in additional partners to that program. And that's something we're going to have to work on over the next 18 months, because it seems like that's a pretty untapped market, and if it seems like we can bring in more partners, why wouldn't we do not just a women's pro team but a women's development team?
But all these things cost money. And beyond that, is there a way to more consistently have women's events along with men's events? Are we overlooking different ways of making the sport more popular? So what I'd look at with women's cycling is, let's come up with a long term strategy for this sport, and if that works out, bringing in partners and sponsorship to make the team bigger and more robust, that's gonna be easy.
PdC: So it looks like you're in the stage where you're getting the team going, and identifying what it is about the team that will appeal to sponsors and how to sell the team, and then moving forward with a strategy.
JV: Right. And you know, even getting to know some of the riders, like I want to know what their personalities are. I don't want to say there are matching sponsors to personalities, but right now I don't know the character of the team well enough to say the perfect match for this is going to be X, Y or Z. We need to familiarize ourselves with these people, who they are and how they win, what the racing looks like and feels like. If you look at how we've done that with the men's team, we've always had a personality to the team.
PdC: Definitely.
JV: And I didn't create that personality. OK, I said, let's have argyle, and I'm sure my personality is embedded in the team. But the riders that have come — Christian Vande Velde, Tyler Farrar — they've got personalities and that sort of becomes the collective personality. And now we're adding another element with Thor and Roger Hammond and Heinrich Haussler. So we've always had a personality, and Garmin, they like that personality. So I need to figure out, what's the personality of the women's team? And then we can find someone who's gonna go, this is a perfect match for us long-term.
PdC: Emphasizing the personality and the people, that's just starting to happen in women's cycling, and that's something that could make a big difference overall.
JV: Back when we were much smaller, I always thought it would be such a great thing if Sarah Hammer could have ridden the team pursuit, like when we were doing that with TIAA-Cref, if Sarah could have ridden the team pursuit and become the national champion with three guys.
PdC: Oh, that would have been cool!
JV: And that's the exact kind of story that can build out — you know, then she goes to the Olympics and wins a medal, then you've got this whole backstory of competing with the boys. It's creating stories like that. And that's what I need a year or two of, being around them. I can't just call up Emma Pooley and be like, what kind of dog do you have? I've got to be around them a little bit.
PdC: She seems really nice, by the way. I've only talked to her a couple times, but...
JV: And that's great. That's exactly the type of personality that we want involved in the organization. That's the reason that Tyler and Thor work, and you know, you bring in Emma, and it seems like she's going to be symbiotic to that whole feel we've got going on, and if that's the case, which I think it is from the brief conversations I've had with her, then the whole thing starts to work and we can start integrating things on a bigger level and start searching for sponsors that can match up with that.
PdC: One more question on women's cycling. At the moment it seems like the UCI doesn't have a ton of structure in place for women's cycling. That top-level structure of women's cycling, is that something you might find yourself getting involved in?
JV: Well — it's funny, when we were signing up with Cervélo and we'd registered the men's team and we're trying to register the women's team — I didn't know how! Absolutely ground zero... who do we talk to about this? So we registered them with UK cycling, it's not an American-registered team.
So it's been a really big learning process for me, and it hasn't been totally seamless. I forget who asked me early on what can be done to improve women's cycling, and — the same problem exists in men's cycling but there's so much tradition it sort of overshadows the fact — but there's not a cohesive series in women's cycling. There just need to be more events and those events need to be more robust. I can't singularly influence that.
And — with men's cycling there's not a cohesive series, there certainly don't need to be more events — so maybe what would be good is, let's learn from men's cycling, because men's cycling grew in this organic way, back to Henri Desgranges, there's a thousand branches on the tree and it's very hard to get it to come together and be understandable to the public.
But with women's cycling, we've got an opportunity right now to actually direct it and
come up with a cohesive series. There aren't that many races, so let's take what races there are and let's raise them up in standard and make them interrelate to each other, so the sum is greater than the parts. That would be great.
PdC: And find a way to get them on the internet so people can see them.
JV: Yeah. And there are tons of sports where the women's side is as popular or almost as popular as the men's side, skiing with Lindsey Vonn or golf Michelle Wie is becoming a huge figure, and other extreme sports. So the template exists.
PdC: You're right, it's frustrating when you see other women's sports and you wonder why can't cycling do this too? There's a lot of women who like riding bikes and who are engaged, and it hasn't happened yet. But other women's sports out there have huge followings, so it's a matter of figuring out what story cycling has that can be sold.
JV: And I don't have the answer to that just yet, but give me a season or so of observing it. And, well, I dunno, hopefully I'll at least have a couple ideas, I don't know. At this point in time I'm relying on Gérard, I'm relying on Theo Maucher, who’s been helping us [ed: Maucher is working on the operations aspects of the women’s team and comes from the Cervélo team organization]. At this point in time I do not know. My experience in women's cycling is pretty limited, so I don't want to pretend to be something I'm not.
* * *
That concludes today’s episode of the Podium Cafe Interview with Jonathan Vaughters. Tomorrow, Chris picks up the story and we chat with Vaughters about what the team will look like on the road. How will Garmin-Cervélo manage its stacked classics team? Come July, can they support sprinters like Tyler Farrar and World Champion Thor Hushovd and classification riders like Christian Vande Velde? Check in tomorrow!
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great BIG two thumbs up!
Anyone who has every thought a working Photojournalist has a glam job needs to rethink...
by Christopher See on Jan 10, 2011 5:44 PM EST reply actions
Such a good cliffhanger/teaser
This was the only way to do this really, sure a live chat would have been fun, but with the golden opportunity you guys achieved in getting an interview with JV, this was the way it had to be done.
How many parts do we have to look forward to? At least 9 more right? This rocks!
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Perhaps ya'll asked this:
Does Vaughters think that ‘selling’ the ‘stories’ of cycling can or should get past assuming that only the stories of the winners are worth telling?
good question
And no, I wasn’t smart enough to come up a follow-up like that in the heat of the moment, unfortunately. Perhaps we can lure him into doing a live chat someday?
We might have to pony up for a bottle of nice wine to entice him
Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!
by Vlaanderen90 on Jan 10, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
indeed.
Probably something very old and very French. But I could be wrong. Perhaps we could ask him first? Or, hmm, would the lawyers object on ethics grounds? ;)
So Chocovino it is!
Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!
by Vlaanderen90 on Jan 10, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
They...they make a chocolate-raspberry version now.
I saw it, cried, and went to bed for a week.
It definitely got played into the ground. Even I was flinching after a while--Tyler Farrar, on that Transitions ad.
There were crates of that in a nearby World Market store...
Looked like at least one bottle had been sold.
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
The one thing that puzzles me is the 'series' thing...
I see where he’s going with it, and it doubtless helps if you can have some kind of season-long competition to measure teams against one another and create an broad narrative arc, but doing that seems to me as if it would also be in real tension with the different parts of the season / the major sets of races, and their specific character. Part of what’s interesting about cycling is that it’s a complex discipline, and different riders with different skill sets and talents will focus on different parts of it. Sure, there’s a barrier to the casual fan in that, but it’s also a huge part of where the richness of the sport comes from, the part that keeps our attention, and I worry that pushing some kind of ‘series’ that tries to compare all those apples, oranges, and pears might hurt more than it helps.
That said, it seems to me that women’s cycling is actually closer to this model than the men are, given the importance of the world cup and the degree to which the major stage races have been having trouble.
Finally, I suppose that the real difference here would be whether the series were a matter of ‘teams’ or individual riders. If the latter, I can’t imagine it working, unless you made the ‘important’ part of the season very much shorter than it is now. If the former, things could start to get much more interesting.
the ancient tension
I wasn’t there for all hundred years, but I suspect this has long been an issue in cycling, and the response has sort of wavered back and forth over the years. Certainly in my time it has. On the men’s side, the sport’s other goals (WC, grand tour) tend to dwarf the series in fans’ eyes, regardless.
But on the women’s side, I think it’s worth pursuing, tension notwithstanding. The idea is to get fans in, and that’s what they need more than anything. Get people watching, and the racing will take care of the rest.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Also
He is likely thinking in terms of sponsorship and broadcasting. It’s easier to sell a series of racing – because it’s coherent, it’s connected, and from a sponsor perspective, it’s more exposure for the money. Ie, sponsoring a series rather than a stand-alone race. You can see this dynamic to some degree with the ASO: They require broadcasters to buy rights to all their races, not just the Tour de France. That ensures that the less popular races still make some money, and the Tour serves to subsidize the rest, to some degree.
How many times have you, as a cycling fan, tried to explain to someone new to the sport the relative importance of the races? And more complicated, the reasons why they’re important? A series removes that barrier to entry for casual fans. They don’t need to know the history of cycling to figure out which races are important. Just, hey, look, here’s a series of bike races, and the rider who wins the most – or scores the most points – wins! Yay!
+1
right, there’s that, even before the fans show up.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
at some point the unfortunate fact that
much of men’s road cycling is about as exciting as bowling and way more expensive to produce for tv HAS to be dealt with.
At a minimum, I think there should be 40-50 pencil cams attached to racer’s bikes to provide for more engaging race video.
Mid-range, I’d like to see race distances pared down so that men’s racing fits into a reasonable chunk of tv time from beginnning to end of the race.
Maximally, I’d like to see more circuit races and criteriums because they are much better television.
(I expect to be shunned . . . but imagine a stage with 3 climbs of the Mortirolo . . .)
Now that stage would be a killer
especially because I’m pretty sure that you have to go over the Gavia to be able to get back to the bottom of Mortirolo again.
I suspect it might take rather longer than R Mc is counting on then,
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
But I’d be quite interested to see what happened with shorter race lengths, yes. I really like it on the odd occasion when you get to see the very start of the race, the breaks forming & not getting/getting away.
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
Carry a sleeping bag
Fausto would have.
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
I think your minimum is very good...
…your mid-range and max I’m not so sure about. You can say the same as this for Auto-racing, especially of the American variety, and yet it has an audience. I don’t think the sport needs to be radically altered. Plus, the Europeans know how to broadcast these races. We’ve all seen tons of their coverage by now. You don’t show it all, but you show the important early parts in a recap and get to live coverage as the action / strategic moments start to get going in earnest.
Better camera stuff would be great, but I tend to agree with civetta below that the goal here should not be to irrevocably alter the sport just for the sake of making it easier for the casual fan. I think that leads to a death spiral because you can’t actually grow it fast enough, given the competition it faces globally, to make up for what you would likely lose in a committed audience that is attached to the complex and messy thing that has grown up organically. I’m not opposed to making it more intelligible to newcomers, but I’m not at all convinced that the way to do that is to alter its character considerably. We need better ambassadors / coverage for the sport, not a different sport.
yep
Again, I’m not against series in themselves. After all, there is already one at the minute & it would be improved if we didn’t have some of the strange scheduling things we have at the minute (including clashes with track etc. too).
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
clashes with track
indeed – that makes NO SENSE!!! given that the UCI track circuit is 4 meets plus World Champs – and hardly any riders riding more than 2, let alone all 4, World Cups.
Gah, If they can run 2 WCs n December, 1 in Jan and 1 in Feb, why not start the season at the end of October – or earlier – like they did in 2008/9 and 2009/10
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 10, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
but Ed . . .
NASCAR races are timed to fit into the slot occupied by football games . . . and that’s no accident. 3-3.5 hours total broadcast time including commercials.
Soccer/Football, Basketball have shorter time-holes . . .
I think you could get people to deal with a 4 hour broadcast from start to finish, and that allows for 80-100 mile races easily.
depends
but with Tour stages and monuments, for example, the early machinations are very much a part of the story.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but do you have to see it all live?
Or maybe you do put the whole thing on the web for the hard core and broadcast much less.
Remember, TV is not the wave of the future, kids.
heh
well, web video allows people a lot of options. If I had time, I’d watch from the start, but of course that’s almost never the case.
[How many years to retirement again?]
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
You have a retirement plan?
(kid with the “I wish I had lollipop like his” look here)
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
I'm behind what the Sporza guys says during every flat stage of every GT
Broadcast the first hour or so live, take a break, broadcast the final hour and a half. Nothing happens in between anyway. I’d much rather see the try-to-get-in-the-break antics than 120min of HTC at the front. Even if they got rid off the stupid abs.
Death before decaf! :D
- gavia
see 2010 tdf stg 16.... attacks in the first hour.... the rest of the stage, kinda blah (and the whole stage was shown)
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Jan 11, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Of course
the new rules for the points jersey at the Tour will likely shake this up a bit.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 11, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Total loony-tunes
Complete mayhem, tons of favorites in groups off the back. Major GC threats off in the early break only to be reeled in by the few teams that had any helpers able to do the work.
Eventually sanity took over and the rest was uneventful but it really looked like everything would be turned upside down.
Brailsford said that same thing before too
Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!
by Vlaanderen90 on Jan 11, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
It wouldn't matter for those living in the US who are not umwolverine anyway
we aren’t awake. I will say that when I have had the chances to watch races from the beginning it has been very very enjoyable. Usually you read about attacks and what not but when you see a stage formed and the progression from there on it is very intriguing. But only having seen that a few times is probably why I am so giddy about it, if it became a regular occurrence it may lose its interest. Also I’m speaking mostly of races like Flanders and important stages, sprint stages from the beginning are probably far less interesting.
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
agreed.
Sometimes the first 50+ miles is basically neutral start / warmup. Unless you want to make sure to capture every stretch, snort and yawn, I see nothing wrong with making that official. Oh, and yes on the bike (or helmet) cams. The bikes need to be weighted to make minimum weight anyway…might as well put that to use.
On board cameras sound great in theory
but the only times I’ve seen footage from them it has been a bit rubbish. Either you get shots of the back of the bunch, or if somethign does happen it is never in the frame of the camera, or you see a couple of seconds as it slides through.
agreed
as exhilarating as getting a shot of the front of a descent would be, 95% of it would be dull. I remember reading an interview with Nico Roche where he mentioned that people always say to him things like ‘oh the places you ride are so beautiful, it must be incredible to do races in places like France and Spain. And he said that when racing he is so focused on not crashing in the bunch and monitoring the race situation that whole countries ’just look like a cyclist’s arse to [him]." That would get old quick, even for the female contingent here.
Sporza has Frederik Willems
doing cameraman duty at the OPL team camp.
Death before decaf! :D
- gavia
Very true
but if you want to see what the race REALLY looks like, you need to see it from inside the bunch.
Motos ahead and behind do NOT capture anything like the thrill of what racing looks like.
I wouldn’t recommend broadcasting an entire race from those cameras, BUT (and I’ve said this MANY times) something along the lines of what NASCAR does with in-car cameras would really add thrills to the viewer’s experience: imagine a pencil-cam attached to Samuel Sanchez’s fork crown on a descent . . .
Or . . . imagine a camera attached to Cavendish’s seat-post and activated in the final few k so you could actually see the battle for his rear wheel.
Yep, this is what producers are for...
…switch to that camera now, now that one…etc.
Can’t do that if you don’t have the cameras, though.
Well . . .
Part of the reason why even cycling fans on this site think that cycling is “all aerobic” and requires less agility than other sports is because unless you’ve done anything close to it, or seen what it really looks like from inside, you have no idea how amazing a “simple” act like getting a feed and eating at 30-50kph in a bunch of 120-200 riders actually is.
And . .. beyond the visuals, there’s the sound possibilities with mics placed closer to the action: the sound of 5-15 chains ‘thoinking’ down the cassette, amplified by carbon rims, as riders respond to an attack is a uniquely amazing sound.
Part of the reason why racers often don’t notice surroundings beyond the parcours is simply that there is enough information to cause sensory overload within the bunch. And that’s part of the attraction of racing.
Problem is, those experiences are rarely televised from cameras placed ahead, above, or behind the action.
by R Mc on Jan 12, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really well said...
…and I really, really like this idea, just to reinforce that.
The death spiral
That’s what I fear would happen in this sport in order to appeal to a larger audience.
More crit racing, big bah to that. Then the death spiral would spin out of control.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
yeah
in five years we’d sound like old-time NHL fans do now when they talk about expansion and Bettman and marketing gimmicks.
that's the fun thing about women's racing
Because the stages are limited in length, there’s racing from the start, and continuous attacks, so it’s much more fun – can’t remember which rider who was who said it, but you don’t know who’ll win up to the end. Plouay, when Emma Pooley Cancellara-ed home, was the exception, and exciting for it
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 10, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
True, but you yourself, I think, have argued before that this is why...
…they’re really somewhat different sports (organically developed as such). My point here is that there’s nothing wrong with that. Let them be the sports they are, and develop them as such.
I think it’s dangerous to try to impose a new model on a competition that has evolved over time according to a specific pattern.
I know where you're coming from
and part of me agrees 100%
But then, I struggle all the time with “are the races so hard they force athletes to dope?”. In know, I’m probably the only one here who thought this year’s Giro (men’s) was just too hard – or insanely hard, or something… I really dunno what to think, really – it’s probably my rose-tinted specs – and boredom with endless flat stages where it doesn’t matter HOW many miles they ride, it’ll still end in the big 4 teams sprinting for the line that makes me wonder… I like escape artists, what can I say?
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
oy
this is one of those Gordian knot subjects, IMHO. Head hurts when I think about it…
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
but masters cat3 racers dope for US crits
so I don’t put much stock in the “course is so hard we have to dope” argument
EXCEPT for the fact that asking an athlete to repeat a 6.5 to 7 hour effort more than a couple of times in a month (or a 350+ TSS effort for you Training Peaks junkies) is just ASKING for abuse.
Perhaps there’s less need for doping in the classics (even though there’s been plenty) because there’s not the expectation that the entire team will finish?
I know, I wish I had a solid PoV to stand on, on it
Heh, cycling, I guess the mammoth grey areas are also why we love it!
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 10, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Last year's Giro was a cakewalk compared to this year's
also, Angelo Zomegnan is God
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
far shorter distances than back when they had no gears
well, two gears, if you took your wheel out and turned it around. And you had to carry all your food, water, tools and support. Plenty more people DNF, and that was just the way it was.
Short of motorizing them, there’s no distance short enough that it won’t encourage doping.
Track racing has been famously filthy at times, too, and not in a way that, so far as I know, correlated with distance. That was more the anabolic, sprinter-friendly sort of doping, not the O2 /climby sort. Honestly, I’m sure every variant can have its form of matching dopage.
cicuit races and criteriums.... blech...
i have a hard enough time with the one day races…
tho, mountainous circuits. i do like those. (not much a fan of the flats.)
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Yup, crits are a real turn-off for me
I know that they’re better for people who turn up on the roadside to watch, but a big part of the appeal of cycling to me is the scenery and the way it changes. And whatever tweaks you make, it’s pretty much a given in any sport that at least three quarters of what goes on will be really dull, and a big part of the drama is wondering if, where and when something interesting will happen.
Those are good points
I often overlook the importance of the scenery for creating the vibe of the race.
And tourism boards can see the value in a 3-4 hour ad for their region.
And the “waiting for something to happen” part is definitely true.
Tour Series over here & its impact on British domestic racing.
The Tour Series is a set of town centre crits for which quite a few people usually turn out, with some tv coverage from ITV4 etc. All positive. But you get the impression from some teams & riders that it’s had a negative impact on the Premier Calendar (the main domestic competition) because they’ve felt the need to focus more on the Tour Series because of the greater attention.
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
(I expect to be shunned . . . but imagine a stage with 3 climbs of the Mortirolo . . .)
Mortirolo has three primary ways up … do each one with the hardest passing the Pantani monument last … woohoo
moo
Why aren't you
a race director?
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 11, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
we should pool up some money and make it happen
anyone got a few million they can stand to part with? Is Flavio Becca lurking or posting? Will has more ideas where that came from
Hmmmm.
There are numerous sports where the “get people watching” and the rest will take care of itself philosophy has led to those sports being changed beyond all recognition. (The serious impact of 20-20 on test cricket, the Ashes notwithstanding, for a start.) Vaughters often seems to be trying to assimilate cycling to other sports, which is fine, but in bringing in new audiences you need to take great care not to lose the ones you’ve got
Perhaps because I (doubtless wrongly) map my interest in men’s cycling on to the women’s sport, or perhaps just because I like stage racing better, the two events I look (or, sadly, looked) forward to were the Giro and the Tour de l’Aude. Yes, there are outstanding & memorable one day races, of course,& a lot of people prefer those per se. But I would hate for the women’s sport to become focussed around, say, a series of one-day races to the extent that you have little chance of fostering the diversity of skills & racers which makes cycling such a brilliant sport.
That’s not to say a series isn’t a good idea, but I have a horrible feeling that the UCI cares even less for women’s stage racing than it does for women’s cycling in general and I would hate to play into their hands.
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
Good points
So, there would need to be a way to include stage racing in the season, whether separately, or part of a particular series.
Also: I think it’s probably fair to say that the UCI doesn’t care at all about women’s racing, sadly. How else to explain the rather random rules they seem to impose?
This is why I said that a series for teams interested me...
…but not a series for individual riders.
Not a ‘team classification’ thing, but you get points for putting riders at or near the top of races (both individual stages and races as a whole). But what those points count towards are not individual scores, but a team score that’s tracked over the season. Such a thing could accommodate stage races, classics, and even multiple competitions within races in a way that rewarded teams for doing well over a season with multiple riders, but wouldn’t narrow the parts of the sport that ‘count.’
Sounds like you want everyone playing the VDS game along with us.
The teams and audience.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Well maybe...
…or VDS was always an attempt to quantify ‘doing well’ in the sport from multiple angles, and it isn’t a bad model for the sport itself.
to be fair, it's not just women's stage racing
but also the random limiting of women’s track and cross – and the track-Classics overlap hurts the men as much as the women…
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 10, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
OK
and to clarify, “take care of itself” was just my lazy shorthand for “if people would watch stuff like the women’s Plouay they couldn’t help but be drawn in”.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
The other question about the 'series' idea that needs to be thought through is who organizes it.
More to the point, if not the UCI, then who? Because really, do we want to give the UCI more power at the level of race / competitive organization than it already has, not to mention more fingers in the financial pie there? Do we want, for instance, the UCI to become the FIA?
More generally, do we want to take something that has traditionally been pretty multi-lateral and multi-centric and turn it into something organized around a neat, centralized hierarchy, which is what a single overarching competition would inevitably produce? For me, part of the charm of cycling is that it’s not like that, while so many other things are.
I’d also say that getting some race organizers in on this discussion would be very interesting. For example, it would be neat to have a chat with someone like Adam Myerson, who I expect would have lots of very interesting things to say on these topics.
More generally, do we want to take something that has traditionally been pretty multi-lateral and multi-centric and turn it into something organized around a neat, centralized hierarchy, which is what a single overarching competition would inevitably produce? For me, part of the charm of cycling is that it’s not like that, while so many other things are.
I’m with you on this one. I like that at the end of the year there are 7 greatest cyclists, 6 best race days and 11 worst moments, all depending on your POV. I like quirky.
Death before decaf! :D
- gavia
by tgsgirl on Jan 11, 2011 7:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There are a couple of series out there already
Biggest being the World Cup, and then the Dutch Topcompetitie, and I really enjoy them – and how the races inter-relate. I’ve often thought I’d like to see something similar on the men’s side, for riders and teams. I guess part of the issue is back to what Vaughters is suggesting already is out there, but is hard to find in English…. The power of Garmin-Cervélo and HTC combining to get some better publicity behind some of the races – especially the World Cups – and linking some other races together (eg the same notion we have of the Spring Classics on the men’s side) would be SO good!
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 11, 2011 4:27 AM EST up reply actions
(Topcompetitie is interesting because of the fact it includes a stage race with the day races – and most of them are the tough Dutch sprint type of races, though it does have the nearest to a women’s Amstel Gold in there too. It’s very Dutch, too – so aimed at the tough, attacking sprinting… which is the other interesting thing about series – do you want variety, or do you want races where there can be series-long rivalries between riders, which imply similar races?)
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 11, 2011 4:40 AM EST up reply actions
Great start to the week
the UCI rules on team registration don’t exist as such. They sat down and came up with rules for Pro-Tour teams, for Pro-Conti teams and for Continental teams, and then seemingly at random decided to use the Conti rules for the women. Maybe that’s because there’s no minimum salary there (and good idea as you might think that to be for the women, chances are that it would kill off three quarter of the teams if it was just brought in like that), but there’s an odd side effect. Conti teams are meant to be development teams at the national level, and home riders should be the largest group. But for the women’s teams it means that every year after they sort out new contracts they have to do a headcount, and whichever country supplies the most then that’s where they register next year. Hence Cervelo were Swiss a couple of years back, then Dutch last year and this year in their new Garmin kit will be British. Likewise HTC were German in 2010 but will be USA this year.
Well at least it means
there’s some relationship between the team & the country in which it’s registered, unlike all those “Irish” men’s teams…
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
So watching Barloworld ride the Tour
never brought a patriotic little twang to your heart
I was very proud of G that year he trailed round the Tour next to last or wherever.
Compared with Ceramica Flaminia etc. Barloworld were a model of home-country grassroots development.
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
there's also the odd age limit thing for Conti, isn't there
something like the majority of riders should be under a certain age?
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 11, 2011 4:42 AM EST up reply actions
Majority of the riders have to be 27 or under.
Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!
by Vlaanderen90 on Jan 11, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
grassroots development
now that’s not a phrase you hear Sky using too much
apart from when they're all tootling round Isleworth on the Sky rides, right? ;-)
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
I'm disappointed in that
I’ve got to say, I’ve been hoping and hoping and hoping that the JV interviews would make me feel better about the way they took something that worked really well (the women’s team) and broken it. What JV says would be absolutely fine if it was a brand-new team – but it’s not, it’s what’s been THE best team in the world. I’m gutted, because Cervélo have been my team, and yes, I’ve been critical of the way the transition has gone, but I’ve been SO critical because I’ve had a hope in my heart & a belief it would get better. What Vaughters says makes my heart sink, & feel like something I hoped for – not just the team, but the combo of Cervélo, HTC and in 2010, Nederland Bloeit, has gone. Vroomen has been making me feel like there’s a plan behind it, but this? I’m gutted…
Hopefully it’s just a temporary set-back, and it’ll all come clear – I mean, it could be just that JV and the Garmin crew don’t understand the women’s game – and by the time the season starts properly, we’ll be back to square one… and I know, if I want some kind of in-team consistency, cycling’s the wrong game for me – but it’s disappointing. I’m not giving up, it’s just that, having hoped , right now I’m as sad for the sport as I was at the loss of Tour de l’Aude.
interesting
I have some thoughts on this. Sleep first though.
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
What?
I thought he gave very open and honest answers — sponsor discontinuing, they’re stepping in, it’s a big deal and requires some adjustment, they’re proceeding carefully. Isn’t this what you’d hope for in an otherwise bad situation?
Also, I give him credit for saying “I’m not an expert” here. Most people would go all Pravda on us — all is well, leave us alone. Vaughters lays it bare. I loved talking about this with him, it earned him some respect from me.
Lastly, as to what it means to the team, cycling teams are judged by results, so if/when they start winning, the early organizational stuff will seem awfully meaningless. If they turn into losers or jerks, then fine. But why would we prejudge what’s going on right out of the gate?
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
I don't mean to sound too harsh
but the internal stuff — we know so little. I don’t like expressing judgments on that basis. For all we know they’re the most professional outfit in existence. Or the least. The races will tell us some of that story, but another part I suppose we’ll never know.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Fully agree...
…I don’t think being upset with him for saying “new thing for me, trying to get my head around it and see where it can be taken” makes much sense.
I guess it's that he sounds like he's saying he's starting from scratch
rather than talking about working from where they were before – you know, the stuff about needing to get to know their character before doing things, rather than building on the work the team did in that area already
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 11, 2011 4:44 AM EST up reply actions
I read that as him saying he's starting from scratch in understanding it...
…and trying not to do too much until he does. So leaving it be more or less until he has a better grasp on what he’s working with.
You'd think that asking the women what races they want to focus on
would be a reasonable thing. And even ask them how they picture selling themselves as a team. I bet they do “envisioning” at least as well as any ad team he could hire.
What can I say? It's what I feel
and I follow cycling – and women’s cycling – because of what I feel about it.
But as I said, they’ll probably get it sorted once the season’s in full swing – and Cervélo took until May to start winning (I don’t count Qatar/Oman) – and HTC even later – so by July I’m sure I’ll be back on the bandwagon, happy and cheery
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 10, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
well
hopefully they’ll earn your support by then :) and if they don’t, then perhaps there’s a real problem.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
This is the problem with the off-season, isn't it?
Not just in terms of women’s racing, but looking across the board – massive dissatisfaction with eg team kits, signing dodgy riders etc etc. I was saying on twitter how gutted I am because Nederland Bloeit, who amazed me last season, have disappointed me because their website is pretty much static apart from notching up Marianne Vos’ cx victories – it’s hard, because really I should shut down the fact I care about the sport from the Worlds until [that fateful day we don’t agree the season starts] and forget about it. Teams both benefit – as HTC have done with their films – and lose – as the Bloesems have done – and bless them, they must feel like whatever they do, they can’t win.
Maybe we need blanket silence, and then 1 day when all the kit, teams, news etc is announced, close to the start of the racing, and we can get on with money-where-mouth-is etc! Or people like me having an off-switch ;-)
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 10, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
It's hard to comment on other team's off seasons
however speaking from first hand experience with the HF team, it’s extremely difficult to keep things active during the ‘off-season’. It’s something we’re very much aware of and have a few goals in how to go about it, however I imagine most women’s teams will be in the same boat. There’s no budget to create content and news.
Things may seem quiet to the casual onlooker and fan, but behind the scenes there are a load of arms flailing and people running around going “aaaaaahhhhhhh”…. or something
Sounds
a lot like life behind the scenes… well, everywhere.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
I really don't think you're being fair here.
It is a new team for Vaughters. Would you prefer he came in and said, well, even though I’ve never run a women’s team before, I know everything there is to know about it. And I’m going to do it my way. That’s exactly the kind of thing the UCI does, and it gives us rules like the seven day stage race rule, which I think we all agree makes no sense. So, why shouldn’t Vaughters spend time getting to know his team and figuring out how to write their story in a way that will appeal to sponsors? That makes a lot of sense to me.
I think it’s fair to criticize Slipstream for their lack of communication during the off-season. I wrote a story to that effect, and I’ll stand by it. But, as they promised, they announced the roster, and Vroomen has explained why they will race with fewer riders than in the past. In its current state, women’s cycling doesn’t have enough races to carry a bigger roster. Slipstream is also paying a minimum wage. I know of two “pro” women’s teams that did not pay their riders at all, despite signing contracts. No, I’m not going to name the teams, because the information was given to me in an off-the-record convo, but the source is very reliable.
To me, the lack of information demonstrates a key difference between men’s and women’s cycling. No one would ever think that the Garmin men’s team was disappearing. Why? Because even if the team does nothing, there are oodles of media people frothing over the riders and asking about their plans. So, we end up knowing plenty – sometimes a ridiculous amount, really. With women’s racing, there are fewer people asking questions, and consequently, we have less information. Yes, it would have been nice if Slipstream had confirmed the women’s signings, but for me, that’s water under the bridge. We have a roster, the team has camp next week. The women’s team is now on the team website.
Vaughters mentioned in this interview that they don’t say anything if they don’t have news. I thought that was interesting. Thinking about it, there are three kinds of teams when it comes to press releases: one team sends out a press release every race, no matter what the resutls. Their rider got 20th? I get a press release. Another team, they send out a press release with a full race report, no matter what their own riders did. Still others – and this is Garmin- only send out a press release if they get a big result or there’s some kind of big news. Cervélo was a race report team. Every race – both men’s and women’s – they sent out a press release with a detailed race report. They were lovely – but really labor intensive. Anyway, it’s a team culture kind of thing. Digging back into my inbox – fearsome thing that it is – I didn’t see any massive pr from Slipstream for the men’s team either during the off-season.
Vaughters is an important figure in cycling, as I think everyone here knows. Whether he chooses to devote his energies to women’s cycling remains an open question. Certianly, at this point, he is interested. And, he is committed to running a women’s team for the next two years. Maybe succeeds, maybe he fails, but it’s far too soon to make a judgement on that one.
I’ve seen some stupid shit in relation to women’s racing – and women’s sports, more generally. Vaughters and Vroomen, they’re putting their money on the table and committing. That’s a lot more than many of the people who claim to support women’s racing are doing, including some of the big media and some of the teams, who can’t be bothered to pay their riders.
Well...that's a hell of a response. +∞
Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!
by Vlaanderen90 on Jan 10, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Vaughters really impressed me in this 1st of 10 (hehe) segments. I still feel bad for Jim Felt, and guys they had to let go, but it sounds like these guys care about this shit and more too and there’s no reason to get so down. Seems like they made the best things happen that could happen from this situation. I congratulate them.
(Columbia’s still going to come out on top)
Who slipped that in up there?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Ha!
Well, we’d very much like to do a joint interview with Stapleton, too ;)
What I hope comes through in these transcripts – and one of the reasons we’re running this thing as a transcript series – is how much thinking Vaughters is doing on these issues. There’s a reason they used to call him “the professor” when he was racing. I don’t think he’s infallible, and no doubt he’ll make mistakes along the way. But what was interesting about talking to him is the way he’s thinking things through.
I’m not sure what – if anything – he will do for women’s cycling. But I think it’s possible that over time he’ll have some interesting ideas. We’ll see, anyway.
Sorry, I was explaining myself really badly
Can I steal Ed K’s stuff on communication below and copy-pasta it over what I said? ;-)
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 11, 2011 4:47 AM EST up reply actions
The minimum wage thing
may turn out to be the single most important development in women’s cycling& they deserve huge amounts of credit for it.
Also, I was very sceptical about limiting the team numbers, particularly when they didn’t seem to know which ten riders they were, but I think the distribution of riders to teams looks much healthier this year, so it’s worked out well in the end. Risky though: good riders don’t necessarily get a team just because they’re good, look at Nicole Cooke etc. last year.
Vaughters seems to have a slightly different take on the ten riders thing to Vroomen though: isn’t he suggesting they may have more in future years?
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
I think he doesn't know yet.
His first step is securing resources, and getting more sponsorship support to keep the team running long-term. Then, it’s a matter of what to do with those resources. Do they add riders? Or, do they do something like start a development team? I think Vaughters doesn’t really know yet, because he hasn’t seen first-hand how the women’s calendar works.
Did anyone here ever mention
that we think it might be a really great idea to sign up Pauline Ferrand-Prevot. Even if your not a ‘cross fan it’s worth watching the last five minutes of that video to see how the French commentator just turns to jelly trying to interview her.
She is going to be a full-time mountain biker initially....she has had the most success there and I think she is shooting for London
Most talented young woman right now though.
Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!
by Vlaanderen90 on Jan 11, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
One more point, since no one else has made it...
…(but not to pile on. You raise points that deserve discussion.) Anyway, I’m not sure why you think we’ve lost in relation to the Cervelo, HTC, Netherland Bloeit trinity of last year. If anything, we have at least 3 teams that are equally strong (NB were on their way to becoming much more than a vehicle for Vos, now they’re fully there), and professional, and I think we’ve got 4 or 5, really (add AADrink/Leontien and MCippolini-Giordana, at the very least).
It seems to me that part of what the ‘super teams’ of the past couple of years have accomplished is forcing other competitors in the women’s peloton to realize that either they pay riders, or they won’t have competitive riders, since there are teams that will. Thus, we even have a French team offering rider salaries, which was previously unheard of. Further, breaking up Cervelo a little (not completely) actually seeds more very strong competitors. One of the justifiable complaints vis a vis the women’s peloton has been a lack of depth (a couple of top teams, then it goes off the cliff). That seems to be changing, and more importantly part of how you get depth is also to have the good riders mentor younger talents on the same team. Distributing the good riders a bit more broadly helps that process, rather than hindering it.
That said, thinking about this, and especially reading Gav’s response, I wonder if part of what you’re missing, as a fan, isn’t precisely that steady flow of communication from Cervelo—which is a much, much bigger deal for a fan of a women’s team than for a men’s team, precisely because information is so scarce on the ground. Cervelo of last year made it very possible to follow and invest in them even if the media weren’t covering them. Garmin up until now hasn’t done the same thing, and even if they haven’t put together this objectively crappy team, I can understand how it could easily feel as if Cervelo of last year is ‘gone.’ If I’m JV and I’m scanning these responses, I’d take note of this: the sparse information strategy that works quite nicely for a men’s team because you can count on the media to follow you and report on everything anyhow isn’t going to work for a women’s team. There, you need to push stuff out yourselves, and more importantly, provide fans with some of the day to day stuff that helps them keep their connection to your team and its riders. You, in other words, have to do for yourselves some of the story-telling that the cycling media typically does for your men’s team.
by Ed K on Jan 11, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. A lot of that is what I wanted to say last night but probably much better put!
There seems to be a bit of slippage between Vaughters’ perception of how much he knows about the team, the riders, women’s cycling etc. & how much he perceives other people may or may not know. He’s talking about needing to find stories etc. but for some people some of those stories are already out there, which it’s probably good to acknowledge. It’s a blank slate for him & for a lot of cycling fans, but not for everyone.
That said, if I’m Vaughters, I’m quite heartened, I think, by Pigeons’ response. Firstly it shows people already care. Secondly, as I understand it, part of his discussion around franchising & team structures (as I understand it) is not just about financial security but the security that comes from fans supporting a team (that may seem like nothing, but in e.g. English football, which is hugely dysfunctional, though in a different way, that very fact actually does keep teams alive). If I’m Vaughters I think I take this as a sign that hunch may be right. ;-)
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
Objectively crappy? Bit harsh
for a team including Pooley, Cantele, Armitstead, Slappendel and the numbers 1 & 2 of the Australian championship on a, from what I hear, pretty tough course.
Yea I was actually expecting that remark to be snark
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Did my grammar get tangled.
I meant to deny that it was an objectively crappy team, and talk about why Pigeons felt something lacking nevertheless.
Ah yes,
I can halfway see how you might have meant that ;) I think I was thrown because I don’t know to what “this” refers.
Ah I see...
…it referred to Garvelo. Using it in the sense of an indefinite article, i.e., ‘an.’
Completely agree re: sparse information strategy
I spent most of 2010 dedicated to understanding women’s cycling and how to get the most out of it. I’ve spoken to quite a number of riders, sponsors and managers as part of this and it seems most failed teams and projects are from lack of understanding of women’s cycling and how it works. Those that succeed (even through sponsorship problems i.e. Leontien.nl) are because they understand women’s cycling as a product and how to communicate effectively to those interested.
I’m confident Garmin-Cervélo will get it right, because they’ve got people with experience in women’s cycling involved.
that
is very good to hear.
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 11, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
don't underestimate humor (of the non-patronizing variety)
I still remember, and grin about, the " hulp Leontien "commercial Monty posted here back in August.
Oh, I agree big time that breaking up the big team culture is fabulous
It can only be good for the sport – but you eloquently explain what I’m struggling to say (thankyou!) – it’s the lack of communication. I was a huge fan of the Cervélo approach to both of their teams – the Beyond The Peloton docs for the boys, and the rider blogs on their site, the Q&As on the rider pages, because I like the personalities involved in riding.
Gah, I’m explaining all this really badly! This being the downside of fandom – there’s the objective/brain PoV, which says “wait til the races”, but as I say, this is about the other stuff.
To clarify – the TEAM, I am all for. I thought long & hard about the whole reduced numbers thing, and I am behind that 100% – and I am always pleased about the professionalisation/payment etc. It’s the other stuff I’m disappointed that
at this pointI feel has gone (but may return, and I’ll be really happy about that)
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 11, 2011 4:09 AM EST up reply actions
(no idea how the quote bit got in there – sorry – was meant to be italics!)
by Sarah Connolly on Jan 11, 2011 4:09 AM EST up reply actions
Excellent point about pushing the stories out there for the media
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Sorry if i am too much of a downer
It is awesome that JV is here chatting to us, and interacting with fans – it’s great! Massive congrats to Chris and Gav for making this happen – and to Vaughters for talking so long and so openly to you, and by extension, us. Love that he’ll give up the time for that – and can’t wait to see how the project unfolds!
Great job guys keep it up!!!!!!
Where is part 2@?
I'm sure the riders I've ridden with before think that I have cheated. But fuck them - Richie Porte insisting that he won clean.
There you are Chris and Gav
it’s already Tuesday somewhere in the world
Oy
the pressure…
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
So 4 hours from now?
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
Ah
so much for learning math in Colorado…
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 10, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
Eh
well I posted that at 9:11 local, 8:11 pacific. So 4 hours from that point it would be Tuesday. Maybe the mathz in Colorado aren’t that shabby after all.
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
JV: And I didn't create that personality. OK, I said, let's have argyle, and I'm sure my personality is embedded in the team. And now we're adding another element with Thor and Roger Hammond and Heinrich Haussler.
And removing argyle from the team jerseys in the process!. But we, fans, will call them Argyle anyway.
So sometimes during the season, one of my non cycling fans friend, will call me colorblind!! I can see that already.
And we need another installment of " Barbie – Barbie" this time in argyle please!
It was long time from the last one!
I used to be a big fan of the Racer Formerly Known as Bert! But then again, I used to believe in Santa ,Tooth Fairy and innocence of Floyd!
.
It proves the argyle is pure evil
not enough evilness in this year’s kit.
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
Thanks guys...
I’ve got nothing snarky to say. It’s a nice read and I appreciate the time that JV and you both put into this whole effort to show us this insight.
"I’ve got nothing snarky to say"
banned
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
I'm off my game - I'm sick for like the 3,543rd time this year....
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 11, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
That's quite a high number for it being the 10th day of the year
and you didn’t even save your sick days for the beefy part of the season, double bummer. At least it can only go up from here?
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
Perhaps time to dig up old press releases and news articles
Last night when I read the interview, this part sounded interesting:
So he wanted someone to sponsor his team because he could not find a partner, and, I hate to say it but we were definitely his second choice! And we tug-of-warred with the numbers, which riders he wanted me to extend an offer to. Of course, it’s not a matter of honoring the contracts, the rider would have the option to go somewhere else if they wanted, it’s not that he gave me a contract and said, ‘now it’s yours.’ You can’t legally do that. So each and every one of those Cervélo riders had to be convinced that their best move was to come to our team.
Maybe I’m wrong, but wasn’t the story a bit different last year? It wasn’t so much about one team folding and the main sponsor going somewhere else as much as two teams actually joining together. And it wasn’t so much about what riders will be convinced to join Garmin-Cervelo, but about what riders will Cervelo bring to the new team. Plus, recently, the problems of joining two organizations that was mentioned in the Aussie champs thread.
Though what Vaughters said might still be valid, and there could have been a bit of PR trickery going on. I don’t think that Garmin-Cervelo wanted Hushovd and Haussler (for example) to get a bunch of offers from other teams (which perhaps they got anyway, I don’t know) and become more expensive.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
I don't think it was ever entirely clear whether it was a merger or a buyout or what.
There was quite a lot of speculation round here about a merger & TUPE or whatever, but I think Vaughters is trying to put that to bed here. Certainly, I think the contractual arrangements (the riders are contracted to Slipstream etc.) seem to bear out what he’s saying?
"What happened in British Cycling, a lot of people doubted me. I've come back, got this victory, and done it my way." - Adam Blythe after his first pro win at Circuit Franco Belge
Hmm
Well, we still don’t have a source for those “problems of joining the two organizations.” So, we don’t know how true that actually is.
I’d assume the riders probably did get other offers. Because Vaughters made it sound like he had to sell the idea to the Cervélo riders – ie, that it was the same as trying to sign on new riders to the team. I think really, last year, no one totally understood what was going on. I mean, we are dealing with the cycling media telephone game here – stuff often ends up more obscured than it actually is. Hard to say for sure, though.
Mr Chris Fontecchio and Mr Jen See
Its now Thursday in my country, when will it be Tuesday at Starbucks?
I am sitting in limbo.
I'm sure the riders I've ridden with before think that I have cheated. But fuck them - Richie Porte insisting that he won clean.
Cali Time SP
(that’s “surf permitting” for those not used to coastal types)
And the UCI failed… on all accounts. - tgsgirl
by omnevelnihil on Jan 12, 2011 5:59 AM EST up reply actions
Well done guys - Insightful interview
as well as interesting comments thread…. looking forward to part 2
moo
+1 How lovely of you to disrupt the January Blahs. Thank you!
You wouldn't think a little rain would stop the God of Thunder. Although maybe he’s conflicted now that he has to wear a rainbow. -Majope
I know I'm late to the party, but two thumbs up for this. If I had more thumbs I'd give you more thumbs up, but alas, I'm held back by the limits of human anatomy.
Death before decaf! :D
- gavia
Someday...
when nuclear power is king…
"Next year we will build a strong team around Tom. We don't need pseudo-stage racers any more in this team." -Patrick Lefevre, 2005
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 11, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Blinky!
Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!, Tommeke!
by Vlaanderen90 on Jan 11, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
You need to watch
My Left Foot to know the possilities that lie in the feet.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
hmmm, hubby has those already
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
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