Velonews has Contador to skate w/ 1 yr suspension
by natbla on Jan 25, 2011 10:44 AM EST
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Well it looks like there will be a verdict this week, and Spain will take care of their golden child with a light suspension. I hope/assume that the UCI will appeal. It seems to me that Spain is being pushed into this result. I'm sure they are hoping that UCI and WADA will look at the 1 yrs suspension and decide its not worth the fight. After all the science on the blood bag plastic isn't set yet and the dose level was very minute.
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1-year ban
Was what ISD’s Alessandro Colo got after testing positive for Clenbuterol at Tour of Mexico last year (also a Danish rider tested positive for Clen at the same event, revealed last week so no sentence yet). So I’m puzzled by this:
Marca said the fact that "no one has been able to show how the substance entered" his body, together with the minute quantity of clenbuterol detected means that the RFEC will propose a sanction of one year rather than two.
Because it sounds like they don’t really buy Contador’s explanation, which would indicate a 2-year ban, but at the same time they’re shifting the burden of proof away from Contador. That’s pretty weak.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
A one year ban will very likely be appealed by both the UCI and Contador himself.
Don’t know who will pull the trigger first however.
What happened to his, "If I am banned, I will quit" rant?
One year is a ban, right?
My take is the guy got busted for something that could indicate he was doing something worse – yes, wild as speculation, but the whole plasticizer thing is pretty bad. Not trying to go there though…I am saying:
One year is a gift – take it. Don’t appeal it. STFU and sit out the year and come back and storm the field. This guy is young enough and talented enough that he can still beat LA’s 7 wins – even if he hands 2010 back.
If he makes a big deal out of this – I wish he would just follow through with his own statement and quit instead. One year is a gift!
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
Well, we don't know how talented he really is, do we?
Not until we see him racing clean. I would expect to see a bit of a downturn in his form.
But you’re right about one year being a gift.
What else can I say? I'm really happy. --Vincenzo Nibali
+1
I would expect the most noticeable downturn would be his ITT, an that downturn alone would make it a hell of a lot harder to win those GT’s. And his best gift that he always mentions about himself, being his ability to recover, may not be a natural gift.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
I always forget how important it is for these guys to recover - and how much doping does exactly that.
It’s easy for me to get distracted and think about doping as being only related to strength or endurance – but the PED benefit for these guys is so much about recovery, huh? That’s where their endurance comes from – being the most rested, the most fresh, for the most number of days…
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 25, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Boy, I typed that thought up craptastically...
Just trying to say that the “enhancement” isn’t always being stronger or faster – but being better able to recover.
(was that better? Cause, that is what I forget when these subjects come up)
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 25, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
I like the idea of a subjective ban
The UCI may not be following precedent, which is troublesome, but at least they are showing that not all doping incidents are equivalent. Whether or not he was doing anything intentional, the levels, and the reasonable doubt of intentions make a 2 year ban seem ridiculous. This particular case doesn’t seem to merit that kind of a punishment. I’m more interested in what happens to the results and when the ban is gonna be retroactive to (or whether it will have immediate effect).
What are the rules on...
National federations or the UCI publicly releasing test and blood passport data when a suspension is announced?
A one-year suspension sounds ok to me, in terms of punishment fitting crime, if this is a case of clenbuterol without blood doping indications. But we would need to see the numbers to know.
If the Spanish federation is proposing a one-year ban to preempt legal consideration and public disclosure of results that indicate blood doping, then we have a problem.
From what date?
If from the infraction/test, then it wipes out half of two July’s, which kills him for two years, effectively. Hell, a year off the bike should dull his edge for whatever portion of 2012 he’s allowed to race anyway.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 25, 2011 12:41 PM EST reply actions
Seems to me his own reciept becomes pretty damning evidence if looking for a date of the "infraction"...
(snark)
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 25, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
If from the infraction/test, then it wipes out half of two July’s, which kills him for two years, effectively.
Which two? I calculate it as no more than a six month or so racing ban. He’d already hung up his wheels for the fag end of last season, and he can come back in time for the Vueta this season.
The normal rule is the suspension dates from the violation, unless the athlete dicks about the way Flandis did.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
The two years would be two Tours...
I think.
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 25, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Again, which two?
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
I think - cause I didn't say it - that it would be refering to stripping 2010 (so that is one)...
and still being suspended through the 2011 TDF.
So, two years worth of Tours…I think is what is being said there.
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 25, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Surely the UCI can write very firm rules for something likes this.
I can perhaps think of max 10 different scenarios:
Date of test + 2 years
Date of provisonally suspended+ 2 years
Race start + 2 years
etc
UCI should just pick one and make it firm for all cases. Can’t see what the process problem is.
You mean beside the fact that each Country makes the call?
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
There are clear rules. And clear precedents.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
this isn't 'nam.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Well, just for the sake of it.
In my little book, unless Contador can specifically prove he got the Clen from the actual meat he ate, he must be banned for 2 years. Non negotiable.
that's the way i feel
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
The nat fed should rule on the lenght of the ban and as per my
list above have only one option when it comes to the actual implementation of the ban.
NOt voting as options dumb. Yes, this is the right penalty as the level was so small? No, yes because this is the penalty other Clen users have been handed. Unless the blood doping can be proven, then it’s th elesser charge he has to be done for.
Is this skating? Lose a year and get stripped of the Tour is skating these days? Hardly.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Trying to be provocative with the title
But yes, one year to me is getting off easy since a 2 year ban was given for this same offense to another rider. And if it were another country or another less high profile rider 2 years would be the decision IMHO. At his age 1 year is getting off easy for me.
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
And if it were another country or another less high profile rider 2 years would be the decision IMHO
Bollocks. Eveyone’s expecting one year for a reason, that’s the standard tarrif. Forget dissing Spain here and check the stats.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Where are you getting one year is 'standard'?
Colo was able to argue his sentence down by demonstrating a high level of contamination in Mexican meat. Contador doesn’t have the same kinds of stats for Spanish meat to back up his claim.
It definitely got played into the ground. Even I was flinching after a while--Tyler Farrar, on that Transitions ad.
does that demonstrate a high level of contamination in spanish meat?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
i don't think it does
which is why i think 1 year is too little.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
problem in contador's case is he produced a reciept, that if I recall this correctly, came from the butcher...
…and if I am not mistaken – this was a spanish cow. Might be making some of this up, but I think it is what I read. I think this whole argument is BS – and he’s getting a year cause it’s Bert.
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 25, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
just because the receipt comes from a butcher shop doesn't mean that the meat is local
case in point, a very well known meat market in catlett, va, doesn’t sell local meat. it’s all shipped in from elsewhere.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I thought I'd read that it was local beef...but I am likely wrong...
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 25, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
local slaughter
≠ locally raised. You get much higher prices by bringing them in and slaughtering them in a country with more cachet.
"dumped for Greipel?!"
kinda reminds me of the whole "free range" debate...
which we know means, here’s a 4 foot square box for a thousand chickens to walk in for their outside exercise…
ugh…
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 27, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Where are you getting one year is ‘standard’?
Colo is one. Victor Alafaro Barrientos. Luis Coehlo is another.
As for the argument Contador will have to make – it doesn’t have to be the same as anyone elses. It just has to convince the jury.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
If the 1-year sentence were standard
Colo wouldn’t have to have demonstrated the high contamination rate in Mexican meat—and Fuyu Li would also have got a year.
Can’t find details on the other two cases, but Coehlo’s sentence being back-dated to time of sample collection plus the fact that he was caught with multiple substances suggests he confessed and cooperated. All you’re showing is that sentencing in the very small sample we have seems to be within the rules: 2 years when the fed isn’t convinced there are reasons to reduce it, 1 year when they are.
It definitely got played into the ground. Even I was flinching after a while--Tyler Farrar, on that Transitions ad.
Precisely. One year is standard if you can con the jury. And frankly I expect nothing less of Bert. It ain’t really all that hard to do.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Maybe Fuyu should have put up more of a fight,
if he felt he could back it up. Up to the rider and team, how they want to respond.
"dumped for Greipel?!"
in his case, he probably couldn't afford the fight...
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 27, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
No hearing yet for Fuyu!
Fuyu is yet to have a hearing to present a case I recently read in an AP report byJohn L. Generally a reliable source
In terms of Colo the contamination argument was BS- there is no solid evidence of clen contamination in Mexico -if there was was where are all the other positives, maybe tour leaders eat more beef livers :)…..Have a guess how many drug tests would have been conducted in Mexico?
"More accurately, the principle of Occam’s Razor recommends selecting the competing hypothesis that makes the fewest new assumptions"
The Chinese Gov. has started to back Fuyu . . .
. . . they say they will use the decision for the Pistolero to get his sentence reduced at the CAS.
I’d say he’ll have a god chance in this if the one year sus. becomes official.
What would Deming do? (+8:00 GMT)
I guess you are disagreeing with CONI and the national anti doping tribunal. Do you have facts they aren't privy to.
In terms of Colo the contamination argument was BS- there is no solid evidence of clen contamination in Mexico -if there was was where are all the other positives
Are you not taking into account that some testing has become more sensitive? The same sample would have come back negative at most WADA accredited labs.
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
As mentioned above in the first comment
A Danish rider, Philip Nielsen, tested positive for Clenbuterol at the same race.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jan 31, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
There is a Chinese rider sitting out 2 years
who says 1 years isn’t the standard terrif.
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
Alright
2012 Giro here we come!!!
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
that's right. get your priorities straight. and it damn well better have lots of steeps.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Did you understand what you just said?
did you just question whether or not the Giro will be plenty of steep? They learned from the Lance proofing of 2009. Never such an awful mistake again!
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
You're probably right. Doesn't the Tour usually make you sit down an additional year after you come back?
"Thanks again, Floyd Landis, Yellow Jersey Wearer: Nuisance Category"
by PopUp Rolen on Jan 25, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Unless you are Vino
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
Vino was kicked out of the '07 Tour.
Then suspended/retired for two years so he couldn’t race the Tour until 2010 because his suspension wasn’t over.
But he raced his first year if eligibility
so the Tour didn’t make him sit an extra year after the comeback which is what probably happened to Basso.
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
he played the AC card
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
They probably did him a favor
Ride the Vuelta with no pressure and no spotlight. Start the real comeback the next year with a grand tour in your legs.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Do they have the right anymore?
Automatic invites and what not.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Here's my opinion, nothing more.
Clen with no trace of plasticizers or suspicious bio-passport = 1 year
Clen with plasticizers and questionable bio-passport = 2 years
I think we can all agree there’s no way Contador took Clen during the Tour intentionally. It’s either meat contamination or blood doping.
So, if you have evidence of blood doping (even if the evidence is only “partially-validated” whatever that means) don’t cut him any slack. Give him the by-the-book ban – two years from the date of his provisional suspension.
If you don’t have any evidence of blood doping (neither plasticizers or bio-passport), give him a year. I’m agnostic about the dating. Dating it back to the Tour would be very gracious of them.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
I meant "with plasticizers OR questionable bio-passport"
Anything quantifiable that points towards blood doping is enough to convince me (except of course, the positive clen test)
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
But that's not the way it works.
The burden of proof is on Contador to prove contamination:
When a Prohibited Substance or its Markers or Metabolites is detected in a Rider’s Sample as referred to in article 21.1 (presence of Prohibited Substance), the Rider must also establish how the Prohibited Substance entered his system in order to have the period of Ineligibility reduced.Also:
It is each Rider’s personal duty to ensure that no Prohibited Substance enters his body.So if he can’t show how the stuff got into his body innocently, he serves the full two years.
Riders are responsible for any Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers found to
be present in their bodily Specimens. Accordingly, it is not necessary that intent, fault,
negligence or knowing Use on the Rider’s part be demonstrated in order to establish an
antidoping violation under article 21.1.
As far as I can see there are two provisions in the rules for back-dating to time of sample collection: confession or “substantial delays in the hearing process or other aspects of Doping Control not attributable to the License-Holder.” I suppose you could argue that there have been delays, but they don’t really seem unusual, and so far haven’t prevented him from racing as normally.
It definitely got played into the ground. Even I was flinching after a while--Tyler Farrar, on that Transitions ad.
I am well aware of the rules. We've discussed them at length.
I just think there’s nothing wrong with prosecutorial discretion
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
If he did dope he can get a reduction by talking.
The system is so fair that he would serve less time than Fuyu Li. I just love how the system works. Maybe if they write more rules they can keep all the clean riders out. Writing rules is cheaper than doing the science. (I think I am intending this to be snark)
"I'll never give up the cow. You can filet me and I'll never spill the milk on the source."
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 26, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I agree in a sense, but also have to say that the rules say "any clen"...and then "what Majope said" on the burden of proof.
I am bothered over and over again in this case that it seems like all the various sanctioning bodies are trying to prove this is contamination themselves. Not sure who said it, but I agree with them – This should have had a quick 2 year ban handed down and let Bert appeal it and prove his innocence if he could. The idea that we wait this long just to hear what the ruling will be and then will get appeals later is laughable. The people in charge are 8 year olds.
"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj
by JustJoshinYa on Jan 26, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
No
8 year olds would have just given him a kicking and then invited him to the next race. there are no delays and no appeals with 8 year olds.
'When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning' - Dr. Reiner Knizia
by bought with blood on Jan 26, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder . . . .
. . . how effective a year of skating will be on his cycling fitness?
Does he need to only stick to one type of skating, or can he mix it up?
You know, Ice skating in the winter . . .
. . . . . inline skating in the summer and maybe some classic roller skating in the park on the weekends?
This really seems like a strange rumored unofficial sentence.
What would Deming do? (+8:00 GMT)
It will be great for him psychologically.
There is a real feeling of freedom and self absorption as one skates down the center of the multi use/bike path with the ipod volume turned way up. Not a care in the world, skating from side to side, nothing or no one else matters! :D
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
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