Notes on 2008 Alp D'Huez stage

by R Mc on Jan 29, 2011 9:19 PM EST

I was bothered after the dust-up discussion of the relative performances of the main players in the 2008 Alp D'Huez stage to re-watch it. But this time I took notes.

follow if you want

13.3 k to finish: Sastre attacks. Menchov tries to follow, Aerts teleports to the front (and takes the front for a kilometer. Granted much of that kilometer he's really only putting Evans in trouble, but . . .)

After reality and anaerobia set in for Aerts, Kohl takes over most of the chasing (ahem). Gap stays in the 10-15 second range until 10,5 k to go. Vandevelde, Kohl, and Valverde do a bunch of chasing, while Evans hangs on for grim death, and the Schlecks chase every jump down, while looking like they're practically free-wheeling.

Gap breaks 30 seconds for the first time at 10.2 to go.

9.7k to go: gap 34 seconds, Sanchez rejoins; FS attacks, Evans counters, FS counters that . . .

9.4k to go: gap 40 seconds. Valverde attacks hard.

9.3k to go: gap 23 seconds: Valv, with FS and AS, every one else gapped, AS counters

9.2k Valv on front, pace slows--Evans, VdV, Kohl re-join [time gaps not shown . . .[but, by

8.5k . . . gap is 48 seconds: and AS jumps, Efimkin counters, Kohl chases, Sanchez rejoins--AGAIN

8.2k VdV jumps, re-grouping, pace eases

7.9k to go: gap 55 seconds

7.4k . . . gap hits 1 minute, up to 1:30 by 6.3k

So? LawrenceS was correct about Evans: he was struggling, and I must not have been watching this part really carefully. But, I was correct about the role played by the Schlecks in disrupting the chasing in the stretch from 10.2k to 7.9k to go.

This is especially evident if you watch their re-action to the one dangerous move--Valverde's at 9.4k--in that section of the climb. By a combination of countering the attack AND sitting on, FS and AS hit Valverde both physiologically and psychologically--making it clear that he will not be able to get away from a Scheck, and that even if he could have bridged the 23 seconds, he'd have company.

One final note: Kim Anderson was in the car behind Sastre . . .

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Nice post race thread

it may be 900 days late but very thorough.

"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!

by Phil H. on Jan 30, 2011 4:29 AM EST reply actions

Dude, I'm a literary historian

900 days is practically yesterday in my work.

by R Mc on Jan 30, 2011 9:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

Well

I expect a recap of a stage from the 1979 Tour then. Of course you won’t be finding any Youtube videos there.

"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!

by Phil H. on Jan 30, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

Silly Phil

Never doubt the youtubes

Jens! Voigt puts the 'laughter' in 'manslaughter'

by Jimbo... on Jan 30, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

The Pharaohs had better TV quality

"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!

by Phil H. on Jan 30, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions

You put into words

my thoughts about some of the races I watched online last year.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jan 30, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions

Imhotep was beast of a rouleur but he couldn't sprint worth a shit

My bags are guaranteed sand-free.

by Jens on Jan 30, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs

I wish...

it were possible to double rec comments.

Bunch of slack-jawed faggots around here. This stuff will make you a god damned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me - Jens! Voigt, Predator (1987)

by tenchu on Jan 31, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions

I rec'd that too - hillarious

"I briefly played on a soccer team where we took great joy yelling 'come on fuschia'" by Willj

by JustJoshinYa on Jan 31, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions

I had forgotten about the Valverde factor...

If Evans really was in trouble—I think he sometimes looks like he’s in trouble when he isn’t really, but let’s assume he was—then perhaps the Schlecks might have been able to just drop him and ride up to Sastre. But of course they couldn’t do that with Valverde around, since he could presumably outfinish them and Sastre. And the stage win WAS important, in fact may have been the main goal, because most everybody at the time (if I remember correctly) thought Evans could pull back all the GC time in the TT.

There still doesn’t really seem to be a way for Frank to have won the Tour, given his crappy TT, but I can imagine it must have been very tough to let Sastre ride off with the yellow jersey if they felt they were strong enough to go with him. So Andy’s sentiment kind of makes sense at a gut level even if the numbers don’t add up.

What else can I say? I'm really happy. --Vincenzo Nibali

by tgartner on Jan 30, 2011 5:15 AM EST reply actions

Kim Andersen

maybe a multiple convicted doper, but he ain’t dumb.

by Uphill on Jan 30, 2011 9:11 AM EST reply actions

Bottom line is that Sastre's attack was TDF-champion quality

Menchov and SamSan went straight into red trying to hold Sastre’s wheel, shot out the back, and barely made it back several km later. Kohl started chasing every fire truck. In hindsight, the big engine TT/climber guys should have raced the bottom differently, conserving energy, and then hunting Sastre down methodically. But I can’t see how it would have made a difference that day.

So the Schlecks got to play with the faster-twitch guys live AV for the rest of the climb. It was fascinating in its way to see 38-year old Stephane Goubert allowed to claw back after every attack, almost until the top. It’s important to separate the brothers here. Andy was far, far stronger than Frank and could have dropped the pack without threatening Carlos at all. Frank, however, needed to say where he was in the pack. Which was hard to swallow, no doubt.

by Mr 60 Percent on Jan 30, 2011 2:41 PM EST reply actions

yes, the bottom (start) of that climb is an absolute brute... and only good for the goats (how i love when that part hits)

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jan 30, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions

I always assumed that Valverde was leading out the Schlecks' attacks

As I recall, it’s Valverde, Andy, Frank. It’s only when the other riders chase on that the pace is relaxed by all three.

My thought at the time was ‘cheeky devils!, they’ve paid Valv for this work!’

Having said that , I haven’t seen the stage for some time.

by Runitout on Jan 30, 2011 5:28 PM EST reply actions

I remember thinking the same thing at the time

by Drongo on Jan 30, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions

What is your conclusion then? Was it a fluke or no?

I was bothered after the dust-up discussion of the relative performances of the main players in the 2008 Alp D’Huez stage to re-watch it.

First, I don’t see why anyone should be bothered. We’re just talking sports, and debating our ideas about one event. Again, my beef is with what the Schlecks said… I think it’s poor form to try and take away some of the achievement from a TdF champion… it’s sour grapes.

So? LawrenceS was correct about Evans: he was struggling, and I must not have been watching this part really carefully. But, I was correct about the role played by the Schlecks…

If Evan’s was not much of a factor, what everyone else was doing is pretty insignificant. Evans was the only guy who could make a massive impact in winning/losing the Tour on that day other than Sastre. Sastre took it… Evans lost it… end of story. Frank was never a serious threat with the TT looming, the door had already closed on him before they got to Alpe.

Simoni used to say something like “If I’m not leaving the mountains with a 5 minute lead, I won’t win the Giro.” The same applied to Frank, and he couldn’t do it. Sastre got the lead he needed.

One final note: Kim Anderson was in the car behind Sastre . . .

Why is this to note? If you’re implying something, then to me it sounds like you should instead be saying not implying what your opinion is of Sastre. I’d consider how confirmation bias influences your ability to assess the stage and whether or not Sastre’s win was a “fluke” at that point.

Fernando Alonso could have been in a car behind Sastre… does that represent anything?

by LawrenceS on Jan 31, 2011 1:05 PM EST reply actions