Podium Cafe World Rankings: How'd We Do?
Another annual end-of-year project is reviewing how our PdC World Rankings performed, compared to some of the other markers. Personally, I enjoy this quite a bit. For starters, it gives me an opportunity to remind people that the UCI's version is a pale imitation of what a world ranking should be. By utilizing only the World Tour schedule of just 27 races (the PdC World Calendar has 27 races before April Fool's Day), the UCI's ranking system resembles less an assessment of the year's accomplishments than some sort of airline-style VIP club, where if you use their services over anyone else's you get a comfy chair and the odd free drink. I know, that's not a bad thing... but it doesn't make you an accomplished globetrotter.
Like an airline VIP club, the World Tour is nonetheless a pretty OK reflection of how the elite guys stack up against each other. Against the collective better judgment and the efforts of ASO, the UCI has positioned itself as the gate agent for the Tour de France. Make them happy and you get moved into First Class. Make them mad and... well, you might get past them regardless, but it won't be easy or pleasant. The result, of course, is that everyone would rather score UCI points and simplify their Tour entry prospects, so the World Tour races tend to draw the best of the best.
But continuing with this nearly deceased metaphor, those on the outside looking in get thoroughly jobbed. To the flip!
First, let's identify the ranking systems. Apart from us and the UCI, I am a longtime fan of Cycling Quotient, with the caveat that they calculate points for every race under the sun, and I am more interested in a more focused assessment. Still, CQ does their thing, and it's a good system to compare to. The last is CyclingFever, a website I frequent for a variety of reasons, hoping that someday I'll absorb something that enables me to win my own fantasy game. But I've never looked up their rankings. Til now.
Teams
[As far as I can tell, CyclingFever doesn't do a teams ranking. So let's start with the other three.]
| # | PdC World Ranking | pts | UCI Ranking | pts | CQRanking | pts |
| 1 | Leopard Trek | 8921 | Omega Pharma | 1099 | Sky | 10540 |
| 2 | Sky | 8661 | Sky | 1059 | HTC | 9694 |
| 3 | HTC | 7401 | Leopard Trek | 1024 | Leopard Trek | 9693 |
| 4 | Omega Pharma | 7328 | HTC | 886 | Garmin Cervelo | 9299 |
| 5 | Rabobank | 7161 | BMC | 877 | Rabobank | 8738 |
| 6 | Garmin-Cervelo | 6818 | Garmin-Cervelo | 808 | Vacansoleil | 8632 |
| 7 | Katusha | 5977 | Lampre | 784 | Radio Shack | 8505 |
| 8 | Vacansoleil | 5808 | Liquigas | 779 | Omega Pharma | 8260 |
| 9 | Saxo Sungard | 5709 | Saxo Sungard | 696 | Liquigas | 7852 |
| 10 | Radio Shack | 5692 | Rabobank | 673 | Katusha | 7571 |
A few observations...
- As I was typing up this table, the first thing that jumped out at me was no BMC in the Cafe World Ranking. Looking at the numbers, they were just off the table at 5356 points, thanks to a lack of scoring rides by 11 riders. Only four guys scored over 300 points: Cadel, Van Avermaet, Ballan and Phinney. [They ranked 12th in the CQR poll too.] Interestingly enough, Evans scored 100% of his PdC points in UCI World Tour races. When you're world champ and a Tour contender, you get to be selective. Same with Ballan, who scored in MSR, Paris-Roubaix, De Ronde and Strade Bianche. OK, that last one isn't UCI. Van Avermaet scored about 90% of his points in World Tour races too, and Phinney bagged all his points in UCI races: ENECO, the Vuelta, Worlds ITT and Romandie. This is either a fluke or an indication of the team's strategy of heavily emphasizing World Tour events over everything else -- which, I dunno, not having attended many BMC team strategy meetings. But for Belgian fans expecting Gilbert to come around for the Ronde van Belgie next year... we shall see.
- [Incidentally, to view a team's performance under the Cafe system, go to the VDS website, Riders tab and apply the team filter of your choice. Presto!]
- No matter how you slice it, Sky had an outstanding year. By all three accounts they dethroned Mighty HTC, either by a little or a lot. Unlike the UCI's selection of Omega Pharma-Lotto for the top slot, Sky did not rely on a mere handful of top performances; they got a slew of contributions from guys up and down the roster. No less than 10 riders scored over 300 points in the Cafe World Ranking, and 14 riders topped that threshold under the higher-scoring CQRanking system. Nineteen guys improved over last season. I guess you could quibble with the quality of their wins, with Vattenfalls and the Dauphine being the biggest headliners, along with two Tour de France stages by Boasson Hagen. But after an overhyped debut in 2010 they clearly came out fighting this year.
- Above the fold, I mentioned that the less elite teams get jobbed by the UCI. Well, Katusha, Vacansoleil, Rabobank and RadioShack all suffer a bit under the World Tour system, while BMC, Omega Pharma and the two Italian squads seem to benefit the most. Hm, perhaps the breakdown isn't along power lines (and I can officially set that metaphor free). But what then?
- Two Dutch teams, a Danish one, a Russian one... and no Italian teams in the Cafe World Rankings Top Ten? Clearly our system is out of whack.
Individual Rankings
| # | PdC World Ranking | pts | UCI Ranking | pts | CQRanking | pts | CyclingFever | pts |
| 1 | Philippe Gilbert | 3986 | Gilbert | 718 | Gilbert | 3168 | Sagan | 5746 |
| 2 | Alberto Contador | 2654 | Evans | 514 | Contador | 2373 | Gilbert | 5235 |
| 3 | Joaquim Rodriguez | 2334 | Contador | 471 | Rodriguez | 2028 | JJ Rojas Gil | 4903 |
| 4 | Fabian Cancellara | 2091 | Rodriguez | 436 | Evans | 1936 | Rodriguez | 4831 |
| 5 | Cadel Evans | 1823 | Scarponi | 357 | Voeckler | 1744 | Romain Feillu | 4625 |
| 6 | Mark Cavendish | 1628 | Tony Martin | 349 | Martin | 1694 | Edv Boasson Hagen | 4376 |
| 7 | Samuel Sanchez | 1495 | Sanchez | 307 | Sagan | 1596 | Marcel Kittel | 4287 |
| 8 | Michele Scarponi | 1490 | Wiggins | 289 | Sanchez | 1576 | Andre Greipel | 4232 |
| 9 | Bradley Wiggins | 1486 | Daniel Martin | 286 | Cavendish | 1469 | Contador | 4039 |
| 10 | Peter Sagan | 1382 | Frank Schleck | 284 | Scarponi | 1437 | Daniele Bennati | 4002 |
Not sure where to even start...
- Cycling Fever is obviously doing something very different here. My theory is that they give extra points for awesome!, which would explain Sagan's top ranking, though trust me, it's a tricky business. But the presence of so many sprinters, and the elevation of Romain Feillu over Alberto Contador, for example, suggests that they are perhaps placing a much greater premium on wins. Not so bad, really. And anyway, there is no right or wrong way to rank riders (except the UCI's, which is wrong). I'd love for one of the CF guys to stop by and explain it though.
- I guess if you had to try to describe how the Cafe system is distinct, you could point out that we value whatever Philippe Gilbert is doing a bit more than everyone else. Or that we're the only ones who think Fabian Cancellara was a top ten rider this year. I'd be proud to stand by whatever that says. And we obviously don't celebrate Tony Martin all that much. Der Panzerwagen was 21st in our poll. Does that make us a grand tour?
- JJ Rojas third in CF? Third? We had him 25th. THIRD?!?
- The other clear consensus after Gilbert is J-Rod, 3rd or 4th across the board. He's missing the signature win, but from a VDS perspective he's gold: consistent high placings in the grand tours AND classics -- and his Tour ambitions are next to nothing, which means you're likely to get another Giro/Vuelta double bonanza. Second safest pick, after Gilbert.
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Interesting to see the comparisons
but yeah, really want to hear the explanation of CF’s methodology.
"English doesn’t borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over & goes thru their pockets for loose grammar." - VirtKitty
so
that’s not points per week but a recalculation of the year-long average every week? Looks like Cancellara was pretty steady from MSR onward.
De cross gaat out that door.
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 27, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, *average* points per week
from the start of the year each time. Slowly evening out. The actual points per week graph was way too noisy.
"Beer helps." -- Ant1.
More data info:
I used the European convention of weeks starting on a Monday and first week of the year has more than 3 days. That means:
First week (8) = Mon 21 Feb 2011 – Sun 27 Feb 2011
Last week (41) = Mon 10 Oct 2011 – Sun 16 Oct 2011
Giro finish: week 21
Tour finish: week 29
Vuelta finish: week 36
Total 41 – 8 + 1 = 34 weeks of VDS. Average points per week at the end of the year for Gilbert: 3986 / 34 = 117.2, for Sagan 1382 / 34 = 40.6.
"Beer helps." -- Ant1.
Right
good stuff!
De cross gaat out that door.
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 27, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
This is excellent.
I just don’t get why Cancellara is so underrated by the other ranking systems.
Do we pay proportionately higher for the monuments and big races?
Cances results are mainly in big races.
My other theory is that we pay better for placings (and Cance had many but few wins). 3rd place in a monument is worth 78% of 1st place compared to 66% in CQ.
(Cat 4) Amstel 3rd is worth 72% of 1st in VDS, 48% in CQ
(Cat 5) GP Big Mig 3rd is worth 66% of 1st in VDS, 50% in CQ
Cancellara
will always be top 10 with me
I look forward to the day that I say something stupid ~ JJY
Looking at the top 10 riders I like PDC's outcome the most
For the team outcome I think the UCI did the best job
Clearly
PdC’s ranking system is clean. I mean, just look at it…in just those 10 spots, you have quite a diverse set of racers each representing different styles of racing.
2 ea. Mr. Everything’s* – Philmagne, Cancellara
1st Lever GC – Contador, Evans
2nd Tier GC – Sanchez, Wiggins
3rd Tier GC/Climby Classics – J-Rod, Scarponi
Super Sprinter – Cavendish
Superstud-in-waiting – Sagan
*Clearly there were more PhilGil style parcours in 2011 and the results show it.
In the words of my dear departed Grandma – “It don’t get no better than this.” (<- My Grandma never said this).
Voeckler is 5 on the CQ list,
but doesn’t feature on the VDS top 10 list (Tivo is ranked 14). CQ possibly scoring TdF placements higher and the system may incorporate more SSR’s in France where Tivo excelled could be some reasons.
Another thing I noted about UCI’s list, is the lack of non GC riders in top 10 (Gilbert exception perhaps, placed 2nd in Eneco tour).
TiVo did a lot early in the season
and was winning the European Pro Conti level for quite some time. His season was already looking pretty good before he held the yellow in the Tour.
How the rankings (and us) apportion Tony Martin’s world’s TT win is a big factor. To me Tony Martin is a GC man who is clearly never going to even get top-5 in a Grand Tour.
He is however a heavyweight in the 1-wk tours that are somewhat neutered by a long and/or flat TT. Tony Martin is a one-trick pony and he rides that pony to reasonably success. He barely scrapes onto the bottom of the elite list for me, so should rightfully be ranked in the 9-14 range. PdC has him 21st.
For me the fact PdC thinks Fab Fab was top-5 is the other glaring anomaly in the PdC rankings. Taking off the Swiss-nat-jersey tinted glasses for a moment, in terms of tangible results this year Cancellara was not a major factor. He was ‘around’ at MSR, Ronde and Roubaix, but I never once actually thought he was going to win MSR or Roubaix at any moment. With the Tour not having a Fab-gift, sorry Prologue, this year and the Worlds being a disappointment all round (unless you’re a patriotic Brit), it resulted in Cancellara actually having quite an underwhelming season.
underwhelming only in terms of the high standard he set
If it weren’t Cance who racked up these results wouldn’t everyone be impressed?
2nd MSR
1st E3
3rd RVV
2nd P-R
Stage wins in TdS, TdLux, T-A, Vuelta
and a National Championship
T-Mart scored lots of points (CQ)
in Volta ao Algarve, Tour of Beijing (both races GC winner) and won Chrono des Nations. These three races didn’t feature in the VDS system. I personally think T-Marts season is worthy of a top 10 (barely).
Voeckler probably scored CQ points in 5 races in France which are not part of the VDS calendar. Think thats the main difference.
Placements in the VDS system appeas to score relatively higher in classics, hence Cancellara’s better ranking here versus CQ (would be my guess). I would definitely rank Evans season above Cancellara’s.
Cav's season was strong, but unexpected? Don't think so.
He has been winning tons of races for a couple of seasons and this year’s Worlds RR parcours was ideal for him. Of course, he delivered (which makes him a bankable star imo), but its hardly surprising by now.
Its Evans versus Gilbert for me, but Sagan continues to impress as well.
Where did "unexpected" and "surprising" come from?
Paisley proposed ranking the riders according to “how well they achieved their goals”. Cav set out for quality wins this year, sorry if he failed to “impress”. This year’s Green jersey comp was not a sprint fest by any means, I was actually surprised he pulled it off given the parcours and the new rules. But I don’t think winning the yellow jersey GC would impress some.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
The green jersey competition was tailormade for Cav this season. Had ASO
applied the same point scoring system last year, Cav would have picked up the jersey one year earlier.
How realistic was Evans TdF chances at the beginning of the season? How many believed he would win the race? Evans overachieved imo. Same with Gilbert. Wiggo is another rider who surprised me to the upside (I didn’t see him winning CdD and placing 3rd in the Vuelta)
To me, Cav delivered again on a number of expected and realistic goals.
( I am sure there will be many different opinions about this, but since paisley asked a question he got one answer from one poster)
Yes, "tailormade"
with all those flat bunch sprint finishes and all, I see where your coming from.
And Evans chances of winning were very realistic. Contador wasn’t going to be there, or if he was, he was going to be wiped out from the Giro (as it turned out). As twice the bridesmaid, wore the yellow last year and was taken out by an injury, he looked very motivated and on form coming in. As far as the other GC contenders, Evans is a better climber than the timetrial specialists, and a better timetrialer than the other climbing specialist… always a contender.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Cav could get competition (green jersey) from two fronts this year:
Bunch sprinters (Farrar, Boonen, Ale-Jet, Rojas, Greipel etc) = same group as usual where Cav is the overriding favorite.
Uphill sprinters (Gilbert, Evans?, Hushovd? EBH?) = riders with many different agendas imo.
Granted the parcours along with the new points system would complicate HTC/Cav’s task, but I would still call Cav a favorite to win the jersey at the start of the season.
Evans
Sure, at various times in the year, Evans chances would probably show a variance. When Contador was set to be banned Evans chances increased, when Contador was “freed” by the Spanish fed (but before he decided to ride the Giro), Evans chances decreased etc.
Anyway, I belong to the group that believed (at the start of the season) that the winner of the TdF this year (based on a “hilly” and little TT kms type parcours) would be either A Schleck or Contador. Of course my view on the favorites changed along with the actual race. After the first week, I wrote off Contador and A Schleck became the mian man with Evans a sure podium settler. After the Pyrenees, I wrote off A Schleck and after the first couple of Alp stages (downhill finish), I was willing to put all my money on Evans.
The orginal response to paisley was based on my expectations at the beginning of the season.
I'm just agreeing with paisley that Cav was up there with some pretty nice wins
and not just the expected nice wins, but impressive wins, the ‘shut up your constant critics’ kind of wins. I’m not saying it tops Cadel, but he’s def up there.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
yes, I meant that like Evans, Cav met his goals.
Other great performers (e.g. Cancellara, Contador) failed by this measure.
For some riders (think Froome, even Voeckler) it is hard not to believe that their personal goals were far exceeded.
But then, who sets the goals:
The rider
The team
The fans
The journalists
The bookies
The VDS price setters
The VDS players
and when?
Lets take an example. Anton says his goals are to win a stage in the Giro and in the Vuelta. He delivered on both counts. However some fans probably thought those goals are a bit light and wanted a Vuelta GC win.
How would you rate Antons performance against your definition?
we can't set them, or even know them
I like the PdC ranking system because it is, as I said before, balanced and the races are fairly weighted. It is also pretty objective.
You said you ranked Evans season ahead of Cance’s. And I would agree based on Evan’s acheivement of his publically stated goals.
Voeckler
he’s a good focal point for the philosophical side of this discussion. He rides Coupe de France races, a bit of which is in our system and all of which is in CQR’s (and none in the UCI). Those races are part of his job, particularly with Yurpcar lacking a golden ticket ATM. So, CQR is rating him on how he does his job, which is kind of the point.
On the other hand, he does that job against mostly continental level competition, which is reflected in both lower point scales and in only partial inclusion of the calendar. We try to grab a few smaller races from each big cycling nation, to keep the playing field level, but not too many, to minimize their influence. Because although Coupe de France is his job, I’m not sure how much we care. A little, yes — they’re bike races. But compared to the rest of the calendar, not much.
De cross gaat out that door.
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 27, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
The PdC ranking is comprehensive and balanced. Great job to those who have selected and weighted the races and results.
we’re the only ones who think Fabian Cancellara was a top ten rider this year. I’d be proud to stand by whatever that says
Plus, for me this is almost enough said.
Another index people might be interested in is the IG Markets Procycling index
You can find it here: http://www.igmarkets.co.uk/procyclingindex
Top ten riders are:
1. Gilbert
2. Contador
3. Evans
4. Rodriqguez
5. Cavendish
6. Cancellara
7. Tony Martin
8. Boasson Hagen
9. Sanchez
10. Frank Schleck
Pretty similar to the others.
They don’t do a team ranking but I might have a go at pulling one together later from the indiviual scores
CF seems to have a subjectiveness to it.
Along with win totals, the other similar characteristics of these riders is an aggressive attacking race style and/or burst of speed at the right time in a race = exciting to watch. And then of course they don’t seem to differentiate between any races, and that’s just out there kinda cookoo.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
pdc uber alles
that is all.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
As far as making a ranking goes
I think the only major flaw of the PdC model is the traditional Omloop starting date. I wouldn’t want to change it for a second in the VDS but with the calendar getting more and more competitive early on it has to be considered when looking at it as a ranking.
Way to grab the third rail
[sigh] It’s true. We’ve been dismissive partly out of practicality vis-a-vis the VDS, and we won’t be changing that. But we can explore whether we can calculate those points for our ranking. I am not a huge fan of those early races, when so many guys are just turning over the legs. But with UCI points on the line, it’s not nuthin. Also, the Aussies and Kiwis take January very seriously… and at least one of those countries is a top five cycling nation.
[Seriously, does Chris Sutton ever have an offseason?]
De cross gaat out that door.
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 27, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I noticed the flaw elsewhere doing a similar excercise
and the problem had even more obvious effect there (all the major discrepancies stemmed from pre VDS season Qatar)
Same could be said about the later season races though
Many guys are tired, many have already called it quits, much thinning of the competition after the TdF and particularly by the time Lombardia rolls around (and that’s a freakin monument). So just like some guys are saving something for the end of the season, some guys are building for the opening of the season.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
UCI WorldTour Team Ranking where everyone counts
(as opposed to the five highest scoring riders) puts Sky on top. Rabobank and RadioShack with18 point scoring riders, HTC and Garmin 17.
1 (2) Sky Procycling (1059+279)
2 (3) Leopard Trek (1024+293)
3 (1) Omega Pharma-Lotto (1099+83)
4 (10) Rabobank (673+425)
5 (6) Garmin-Cervelo (808+277)
6 (4) HTC-Highroad (886+185)
7 (5) BMC (877+57)
8 (7) Lampre – ISD (784+77)
9 (8) Liquigas-Cannondale (779+29)
10 (11) Team Radioshack (639+145)
11 (9) Saxo Bank-Sungard (696+6)
12 (12) Katusha (615+14)
13 (13) Movistar Team (474+147)
14 (14) Euskaltel-Euskadi (471+1)
15 (15) Pro Team Astana (422+38)
16 (17) Ag2R La Mondiale (372+82)
17 (18) Vacansoleil-DCM (369+79)
18 (16) Quickstep (379+61)
I'd have done way better in VDS under the UCI or CQ scoring systems, it seems.
Too swayed by early season results, I wonder?
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
I think I also explained CF last year..
But anyway :P
For every race they put in their database the riders get points. No matter what class the race is the number 1 gets:
1=100
2=80
3=70
4=60
5=50
6=40
7=30
8=25
9=20
10=15
11=10
12=9
13=8
etc.
So the ranking is based on position, because their game is based on that scoring system.
Ah OK
so they don’t classify races. They score the same for a SSR as the RvV.
De cross gaat out that door.
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 28, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
well, it cuts down the arguments and discussions?
TdF = Delta Tour Zeeland
Who can fault that line of scoring?

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
damn, I should make that my avatar
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

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