Virtual Directeur Sportif '11: News and Notes
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 12:44 AM EST
in FSA Directeur Sportif
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First, a reminder: last week we announced the kickoff of our 2011 Year-Long Virtual Directeur Sportif competition. The short of it is, for the low low low cost of... nothing, you can play along with the Cafe folks here in a seasonal fantasy competition like no other. For more rules and how-to's:
- Men's competition
- Women's competition (first ever!)
The Ricco Conundrum...Solved!
Next, the topic of the day -- what to do about people who submitted teams with Ricardo Ricco on them? And here's my decision: anyone who wants to swap him out and redo your team can do so. Send me an email and Superted will unlock your team.
People who argued against this in the Ricco thread (gah!) seemed to be saying that the Ricco owners had made their bed and should be forced to lie in it. But I think this is a gross misunderstanding of the "submit" function. Hitting "submit" is not some magical moment that starts your season. Everyone starts their season on Feb 26, whether they submit on Feb 25 or Jan 31.
Hitting "submit" is a very important moment for our administration of your team, however. It forces you to meet the handful of team rules; it registers your team officially; and unlike the hundreds of finished-looking-but-unsubmitted teams out there, it tells us that the team registered in your name is not subject to further tinkering. Do we want to unlock submitted teams constantly? Not really. But a few times is no big hassle.
Now, lots of people have submitted teams already. The lesson of Ricco is, you should try not to submit too early. However, waiting til the last minute doesn't work for everyone. Some people may have left for the Amazon on Feb 4 or on a six week research voyage. Some people don't check the Cafe every day and have to move on to other tasks. Some people are forgetful. Submitting early is a practical solution. For people who are here a lot and follow the cycling news every day, you're better off waiting til the last week when riders' status is as set as it's gonna be. A few people made mistakes along these lines. I don't see why it's disadvantageous to others if we let them correct it. But we won't change your Ricco hiring unless you ask us to.
Oh, and no change to the basic rule -- there will be no changes to your roster once the deadline passes.
The VDS in-Season Doping Policy
I doubt we'll have to apply this at all (cough) but just in case...
- If a rider gets busted in an out-of-competition test, he is frozen until the rider's national federation rules on his case. This is a formality, since a positive rider is pulled. If for some reason a rider continued riding, no points scored would be counted.
- If a rider gets popped during a stage race, his points for the entire race are wiped out if and when his federation rules that he is guilty.
- If a rider gets popped during a single-day race, his points for that day are wiped out if he is ruled guilty.
- Any points accumulated prior to the positive test stand, even if he's guilty. In the case of the out-of-competition test, the points before the test is administered are allowed to stand.
- [Edit] For a rider's points to be removed, the rider's national federation must act within one week of the end of the Giro di Lombardia. [Should have remembered this one...]
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Thank you Chris
I found the whole uproar over this quite absurd, it’s supposed to be for the fun of it and the season has not begun. Changing teams is no big deal at this time.If someone else had a season injury I hope anyone who had them would be able to replace. Oh and this allows me to switch out one of the 1 pointers I had who turned out NOT to be a doper. THE SHAME!
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
Out of interest, who did you swop in?
Did you find a 16-point doper?
And it’s this perfect vindication for your team tactics? You achieved what you wanted so well that you had to change your team before the season started!
by Sarah Connolly on Feb 9, 2011 4:52 AM EST up reply actions
Fair ruling Chris
What an interesting sport-There are sufficient replacement ex-dopers for “syringe binge”.
"Does that mean over or resolved?" Arkady Renko
I can see both sides of this
but your decision, Chris, seems consistent with the generous spirit of this forum. It does however set a precedent that may cause problems down the road. Let’s say for example, Sep V. breaks his arm on the eve of the Omloop. There will be 70 people clamoring for last-second changes.
by sebastiandeluded on Feb 9, 2011 1:25 AM EST reply actions
fortunately
there’s no racing on the eve of the Omloop. Wait, when’s Oman?
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
15th to the 20th (feb)
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
ok
so the 21-25th should be injury free.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Errant traffic on a training ride could mess anyone up...
(Or if you’re Ricco: Errant transfusion on a training ride could mess anyone up…)
Bunch of slack-jawed faggots around here. This stuff will make you a god damned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me - Jens! Voigt, Predator (1987)
someone could fall in the pool again
(looking Leo-pard-ward through my fingers)
"dumped for Greipel?!"
That many?
In that case, and to paraphrase a line from “Catch 22,” I’d be crazy not to have him on my team, too.
by sebastiandeluded on Feb 9, 2011 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
Just kidding,
but there seem to be a great many Seps out there.It would take quite a few teams to accommodate all of them.
"Does that mean over or resolved?" Arkady Renko
I see many problems with this ruling
One: Obviously the people who submitted early were gaming the system by avoiding the inevitable outcome of over paying for sprinters who do well in Qatar.
Two: See one but replace sprinters with GC hopefuls and Qatar with the Tour of Med.
Three: Continuing the facade that the season starts Feb 26 with the Oomlop and not July 31 with the Tour de Pologne.
Four: It seems to emphasize fair play which of course puts those amongst us which have the strange disorder which compels us to put Tom Danielson on our rosters year after year at a severe disadvantage.
Five: Cycling is supposed to be painful. When a person signs up for the VDS, Ricco should automatically be placed on their team, with no option to remove (Tom Danielson too).
heh
OK, the pain part I’ll give you.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
He/she has a point with the Pologne-thing too
How long can we keep perpetuating this myth?
My bags are guaranteed sand-free.
A request for future VDS versions.
If possible, perhaps there is a way to change the submit part of the VDS. If the system could have a auto-submit function by the deadline, i.e, having the system taking all valid, but not yet submitted teams and make them permanet teams in the VDS by the cutoff date. That way people who don’t scan the site on a daily basis will be sure their team is active when we start, but will also have the opportunity to fix problematic rider selections until the deadline.
Note: I know one thing about software. Its easier to suggest new features than implementing them.
On Chris ruling: it works for me.
yeah, a sort of "roster freeze" cutoff time like they have in other fantasy sports
although I also have no idea how hard that is to program into the current system
A lot easier than a submit function
Basically, just do nothing and keep scores for teams marked as “Valid” instead of “Submitted.”
I think last year the idea behind the submit function was to stimulate a personal relationship with your team, to increase active involvement.
and that theory works too.
Some guys I “fired” with extreme malice. Most I quietly let go (Laurens Ten Dam, call me).
Cycling is the reason for my life - D. Bennati
So some guys security walked out, and some guys you walked out?
That’s excellent.
"Your not going won't unbreak her arm."
That makes sense perhaps, however if the hiring and firing is still active with
the deadline validation model, interaction should continue I think.
well
also it forces people to correct the errors on their team. We’ve had too many people in the past ignoring the warnings about number of riders, amount spent, etc. The submit step forces them to look at the errors; the passive deadline would allow them to leave them in place.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
"Some people may have left for the Amazon on Feb 4 or on a six week research voyage"
in which case they probably will not see that post and be able to e-mail Ted. Plus they are going to miss some fantastic races. I feel bad for these hypothetical people, although I bet the Amazon is incredible.
I am just glad there is a lesson in all this
for us VDS players to learn. If Ricco isn’t going to learn from past mistakes, at least someone else will.
Thank you Chris! Our strict but fair Ruler!
Part of me wants to stand by my mistakes, but part of me just wants to kick ass in VDS competition!
Guess witch part is prevailed? You right! Sending E Mail.
"I love bike races warm up, warm down, cobbles mountains or flats."
perezbike
.
They chose Ricco and chose to submit. They should live with their choice.
And one last thing – Just because one disagrees with another, doesn’t mean that anyone should be called absurd. I disagree – and I am doing so respectfully. It is not absurd to express a point of view, it’s simply a different viewpoint.
You select a rider, you submit the team, you live with the result. It’s not absurd, it’s actually fairly logical.
Hey look! More snow...
I agree with you too
Part of the game could easily be said to be “When you hit submit, you commit”. Because they are getiing more sleep than those of us who haven’t hit submit yet.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
more sleep?
maybe, but it’s restless.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you! I also fail to see the absurdity of my POV.
I truly hope that there is no massive crash in Qatar that takes out Cance, Boonen, Hausler, and Cav for the season ‘cause you’re going to have a lot more re-submitting to take care of.
However, while I am still bitter about jen grey and the 18 points for nix I got last year, I am not bitter about this. The game is yours and not mine, I am simply a participant.
So thank you for all you do to increase my enjoyment of cycling.
'When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning' - Dr. Reiner Knizia
by bought with blood on Feb 9, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
Phil didn't call anyone absurd.
He characterized the uproar as absurd. Which is true but then again we are a loopy bunch. But even that statement didn’t specify any one person as being loopy,but collectively we can be.
If you reread the rules you will see where it is plainly stated:
Once you hit “SUBMIT”, you can’t make changes without groveling to an administrator first.
I do believe that there has been an absurd reaction by people wanting to revoke this right to grovel. If anything it would have been more fun if you guys/gals had insisted on more groveling, much, much more sincere groveling (with just a smidgeon of humiliation thrown in. :D). The game is frustrating at times but it should always be about fun first. I think that the best way we can thank Chris and Ted is to have fun and keep it fun for everyone.
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
it's a game
If anything it would have been more fun if you guys/gals had insisted on more groveling
PopUp Rolen’s “I Chose Ricco” Avatar is a high point in the debate :)
moo
groveling for my past mistakes is somthing i've perfected
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
hey, for what we know, PopUp could have been the one who provide
Ricco with a bag or two.
i strictly use eagle's blood for my transfusions. Human blood is so 1990s
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
actually, that's brilliant.
Our local blood bank always asks if there’s a group you are “donating for.” Not as in, the group has someone who needs blood, but rather, who gets credited for your good deed. How many people want to go in and say, “team Ricco”?
"dumped for Greipel?!"
See I should always read the rules!!
You are truly correct sir, “More Grovelling” should be the Pre-Vds change motto. I am never ashamed to admit my absurdity when it is pointed out :-)
Nothing to see here, Move along, Move along.
facepalmface
'When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning' - Dr. Reiner Knizia
by bought with blood on Feb 9, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Are we having fun yet?
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
Pretty much exactly how I feel
I didn’t expect such a serious response when it was first asked in a playful manner to allow Ricco to be dropped. It’s a fun game for a blog community, it’s not like we are placing bets in Vegas. I was surprised to see so much anger in response to this request, I did think that was absurd, not the disagreement about allowing a switch to happen.
"I just want to say fuck you, and I mean that in the most professional way" -Brandon Llyod
SAVE CHAUNCEY!!!!
Maybe the anger had nothing to do with Ricco or VDS and it was really directed at you Phil.
I’m sure there is a Lebowski quote that would be more appropriate but I don’t know any. :-p
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
That seems entirely reasonable
____ ___ ____ ___ ____ _ _ ____ _ ______ _ _ / ___|_ _| _ \ / _ \ / ___|| | | |/ ___| |/ / ___| | | | | | | _ | || |_) | | | | \___ \| | | | | | ' /\___ \ | | | | | |_| || || _ <| |_| | ___) | |_| | |___| . \ ___) | |_| |_| \____|___|_| \_\___/ |____/ \___/ \____|_|\_\____/ (_) (_)
This is a fair decision.
Teams owners should be able to adjust their roster up to the deadline. I could have easily made the mistake of hitting the submit button and been stuck with Ricco, as I had him on my roster.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Word in the press now
is that Ricco is denying that he had a transfusion. It would be rather funny if they couldn’t pin anything on him, he raced the season, and earned many points.
It's really cool--Heinrich Haussler, on Barbie Barbie
that it would
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Don't you mean, not "Thrown in jail" yet?
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
fyi
i’m starting a ricco righteousness racket, i mean fund. send your monies my way.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
monopoly money
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
no very useful
fuentes takes euros.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Ricco will claim he was loopy?
He was in shock and was having flashbacks to when he ‘used to’ transfuse. It is a recurring nightmare that he is tormented by and he will seek therapy but he is definitely not transfusing now.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
by sminer on Feb 9, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that story is speculation.
If Ricco denies then Vacansoleil’s hands are tied. That’s how I read it with my handy translator tool.
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
See my response in the other thread.
Or actually, for those who don’t want to thread hop, I’ll repeat it here:
The article has changed since I linked it. It used to say: “Riccardo Ricco ontkent dat hij heeft gezegd dat hij bij zichzelf een bloedtransfusie uit heeft gevoerd.” I was using autotranslate as well, but it sure reads like more of a denial.
It's really cool--Heinrich Haussler, on Barbie Barbie
The story of the denial
is also at Bici, and says that Ricco wasn’t capable of speech when he got to the hospital. Hope this doesn’t drag on…
It's really cool--Heinrich Haussler, on Barbie Barbie
"Hope this doesn’t drag on…"
it’s cycling, why would it?:)
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
For once, it actually looked fairly straightforward.
Sigh.
It's really cool--Heinrich Haussler, on Barbie Barbie
it was until lawyers got involved :)
hidefromchrisandsuiface
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
too bad
I’m the deciderer.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in denial.
the Biciciclismo story reads more like denial. And a denial fits Ricco’s M.O.. I hope the fact that the police are investigating it means that he doesn’t have very much wiggle room, his word versus the doctor, doctor should win.
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
Well
I don’t know if he has denied yet, but no doubt he will. Because you know, these things follow a certain pattern.
"It was not my hand that got stuck in the cookie jar.."
“… it was my dog’s paw.”
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 9, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Although I disagree with the ruling. I have no problem with it.
The only thing is that in the spirit of fairness if anyone that has submmited a team wants to change it should be allowed.
As said before….dangerous precedent in light of the possible re-work involved.
Personally, I did submit and I do not intend to change. My spirit on this game is just choose riders I like and root for them during the season (no dopers asllowed).
And also know better some young guys (my 1-2 pointers are mostly young folks)
I usually throw a few names for fun: last year was Murilo fischer for being brazilian
and Rujano for beeing the 3rd best climber in the world.
This year it will be the KoS and McLovin (Angel Madrazo)
If this gives me a good result excellent!
RULE 42:
A bike ride/race shall never be preceeded with a swim and/or followed by a run
by perezbike on Feb 9, 2011 10:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Angel is also called the Sparrow, yes?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
lordy
it’s worse than the CIA.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
respectfully disagree with the ruling - choosing ricco, folks had to have considered that he would be caught doping again.
just know that i am grateful for you’re continued provision of this wonderful place on the web.
"Race radios in Cat 4?"
Thanks!
Unfortunately dissent is not tolerated and your account has been deleted. :)
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
You dissed the Strade Bianche race too when you ranked races
I think you just have it in for gravel roads
My bags are guaranteed sand-free.
It's true
just cobble the frickin things already!
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
maybe gravel grows up to be cobbles?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
mmm
other way around? Is this a geology question? Should I sound the alarm?
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Carbon becomes diamond
You only have to give it some time, heat and pressure. I’m sure the same thing works for cobbles.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 9, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
Tonight I will put my old, cracked Aerus handlebars under a heavy rock and add some hot oil. Can I collect the diamonds by next week?
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Almost certainly
And if it doesn’t work, it’s because of your lack of faith.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 9, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Dammit!
How do they always know?
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Choosing Ricco
is more than just about the risk of doping. It’s tiptoeing over to the Dark Side.
by sebastiandeluded on Feb 9, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
tiptoeing?
Phil H. stomped across the hallway, banged on the door, and yelled:
“Pull up your drawers, I’m coming in, and I’m your new boss”
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
by sminer on Feb 9, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh My God! I didn’t laugh like this for ages!!!
"I love bike races warm up, warm down, cobbles mountains or flats."
perezbike
.
One more point
I added an edit to the policy above w/r/t doping. We need the federation to act by Lombardia or shortly thereafter. We can’t keep the VDS hanging indefinitely. If there are no pending cases (or none that would affect the top 10 or so), we will close the season as soon as Lombardia is done. If there are pending cases, we will wait a week for a decision. But then we have to close things and salute the winners.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Feb 9, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions
By the way, all this talk and talk
But our submitted prematurely teams, are still locked up.
"I love bike races warm up, warm down, cobbles mountains or flats."
perezbike
.
Did you email Chris to unlock it?
He said in the post that you need to email if you want to modify it — it won’t be done automatically.
All fixed! Thanks!
No it was not UFO sighting in NJ. It was booted Ricco’s ass flying at warp speed!
"I love bike races warm up, warm down, cobbles mountains or flats."
perezbike
.
Excellent!
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Just started looking
at a VDS team last night, and trying to get my head around these doping rules.
In practical application;
Franco Pellizotti. He’d lose no points, but from the date the UCI provisionally suspended him, he would receive no points (and hadn’t gained any anyway as he was off the road the entire time). The federation did not find him guilty, but there is no points to return to him as he stopped riding. I presume since his was BioPassport and neither an In or Out of competition explicit test, the date of the UCI provisional sanction would be used?
Tadej Valjavec. He’d lose no points initially. From the date the UCI provisionally suspended him, he would receive no points. His federation did not find him guilty, and he returned to racing. Had he scored points in, say Lombardia, would they be counted?
Oscar Sevilla. He tested positive during a race, however was not provisionally suspended by the UCI due to certain application of the rule on the substance found in his test. He was permitted to continue riding. His case has not been heard by his federation. I presume all points would count in this instance? Had the federation made a ruling and applied a sanction before the season ended however, the points would be deducted?
I am taking a couple risks (one biggie in particular) and wanted to check how things might turn out. Might even pick Ricco too, just for the banter…
Let's see...
Pellizotti: Yeah, that looks right. From date of UCI announcement, I would think, which should coincide with provisional suspension.
Valjavec: Yes, if he was cleared by his federation and returned to racing, and then placed in a scoring race, his points would count.
Sevilla: Points would be on the table until the federation ruled—and if they ruled before the season ended and back-dated his suspension to the positive, then any points he gained after the pos would be lost. If they ruled against him, but after the season ended (or to be specific, after Lombardia + a week), his points would still stand.
It's really cool--Heinrich Haussler, on Barbie Barbie
Last year I jokingly called it the Enrico Rossi Dilemma
His sister had been busted, his brother-in-law had been busted, so he looked like a good bet to get busted, but also a good bet to score points. Now do you take the gamble that the bust won’t come until late in the season after he’s scored loads of points, when with appeals etc. there’s a good chance that things won’t be settled by our deadline. That’s your call.
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