VDS Smack Thread
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 6, 2011 11:16 AM EST
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Can I just say that Elvisgoat is dead f(*&^ing last in the Editors' League? Can I say that? Oh, and guess how many points he has. Let's just say it's a number that resembles the first initial of his favorite Spanish sprinter. 0scar Freire.
Ah... I love this time of year. When I can crow about being 77th in the big game, and not mathematically eliminated from the Eds' League.
[For today's full results, go here.]
Incidentally, if you're curious what the league looks like, go here. I offer this not because you should be interested in someone else's fantasy competition, but because this has always been something of a demo project, and now I think we've hit the right formula. We are up to 22 teams -- gotta stop adding editors -- and I think that may be the limit. But we did 12 rounds of drafting, where a player who is picked is unavailable to all other teams, and what we got were some teams that look a lot like real life. Or, what real life would look like if there were a level playing field, rather than a totally free market. No team is too thin, despite the best efforts of some (coughDancough), and no team is at all loaded, at least as things appear now. Things have a way of changing when the rubber hits the road, however.
By the way, you might be interested to know that Elvisgoat is last.* Happy Sunday!
[IIRC Elvisgoat ran away with the first year's trophy. Since then we have been revising the rules to stop him.]
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Out of interest
What does the “efficiency” columns mean, and how do they affect the score?
It doesn't effect the score at all
It is just a ratio Points scored/ rider cost in regular VDS. It is basically a fun statistic for bragging rights who managed to make the most out of cheaper riders.
Smack Talk:
Jerome Coppel may win the TdF this year even if his team isn’t invited. Feeling great about him.
Jens:
As the editor smart enough to draft Jerome, if you send a postage paid envelope to him he’ll send you a signed photo:
(I have no idea how you can do this without access to French stamps apart from being nice to me).
http://www.jeromecoppel.com/cartededicacee.html
moo
Last year I bragged and dropped down the chart.
This year I will moan and grumble and surely I will climb!
Groan, Mumble, Grumble!
WooHoo!
I’ve only got 19 doughnuts now!
The skills really do go away if not practiced, and I don't mean to brag but I was getting very mediocre. - Tejay Van Garderen
BTW. Excellent history revisionism Chris
I can fully endorse this version of the all-time winner’s list.
22 teams seems like a lot to me.
Running out of time for my auction league plan, it might still happen:
8-10 teams with a rider pool of 2 (or maybe 3) of every rider. 2 Andys, 2 Phinneys…
subvert the yahoo baseball auction template. someone (me) makes a huge enigma list matching riders to ballplayers. everyone is very good about grasping the list, and then everyone shows for the draft time and it’s done in 2-3 hours.
—
VDS – having fun and still going back and forth between whether I should have picked more 6 pointers or 16 pointers, or maybe just Ballan and Dami.
Smack: As far as the possibility of outright winning the VDS – not really on my mind, need much future luck – but since there are a couple of very similar teams to mine, the only way it’s gonna happen is if everyone named Martin has a bad year. Brajkovic really sucking would help, too.
So, more smack: some hopeful thoughts here to shape my team’s VDS year that Tony Martin will in fact not do all that well at P-N, and get shelled back to 17th place in the GC.
The advantage with many players strangely enough
is more evenly matched teams. We pick back and forth on the list (1-2-3-4-4-3-2-1-1-2-3-4 etc). First year when I think we were 12-14 players those at the top of the order ended up with much higher budget teams and those at the bottom were pretty screwed. Now, as you see, the teams are pretty evenly matched in terms of VDS value.
It looks insanely hard - only for people that know most of the peloton, and pretty well.
Looks like fun – I looked at a couple of teams, many flier / lottery picks.
by rubesANdbabes on Mar 6, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
The complete rider list is sorted by draft order
http://www.podiumcafevds.com/draft.php?y=2011&riders
(first number is the round, second the sequence on that round)
I haven't seen eds league standings. Are they posted?
"It's crazy. In Belgium they would have stopped the train"
-Peter Van Petegem, April 2006-
Thanks. Cool, 4th.
"It's crazy. In Belgium they would have stopped the train"
-Peter Van Petegem, April 2006-
how was your bike ride? 20-30 knt winds today.
It felt like an hour and a half false flat. Nice and warm though.
"It's crazy. In Belgium they would have stopped the train"
-Peter Van Petegem, April 2006-
Perfect conditions,
a little windy but I had the wind in my back coming home for once. If we could have days like these I might actually be in non-embarrassing shape pretty soon. As it is now it is pathetic (not exaggerating).
the entire coastline was into a headwind.
I really should have done the route backwards… (not literally).
"It's crazy. In Belgium they would have stopped the train"
-Peter Van Petegem, April 2006-
22 teams seems like a lot to me.
Yeah the non editors league may be a bitch to organize. 6 Billion – 22 invited
moo
It’s just if you have the 17th pick in this league, you need to be really dialed-in to bike racing to even have a chance.
by rubesANdbabes on Mar 6, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
i went 20 and 23
and did just fine and I know squat.
Anyone who has every thought a working Photojournalist has a glam job needs to rethink...
by Christopher See on Mar 6, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
1st wo rounds..
Anyone who has every thought a working Photojournalist has a glam job needs to rethink...
by Christopher See on Mar 6, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, that's great, but speak to the idea that
not everyone who might have fun with fantasy cycling need meet the standard of an editor of a bike racing blog who claims to not know ‘squat’ about it.
by rubesANdbabes on Mar 6, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn't you have about as many teams as there are at pro and pro-conti level?
Or would the later picks become inconsequential: low ranking domestiques who were really unlikely to score at all?
Last year,
there were 648 different riders on 446 VDS teams. A total of 523 riders scored points, of which 376 were on at least one VDS team.
Yes in theory
But organizing more than three editors at any single task is like herding cats. 22 is flirting with the breaking point.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 6, 2011 6:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
where's all the fun in that? the smack talk is the mostest fun of the draft.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
agreed
I love the ed liga draft just as is. Always great fun spending a few days online with you guys.
There were a lot of fresh cowboys in the peloton and it was a nervous fuss. Tommeke
... "for hundreds of players."
No need to abandon the fun! Automated might be a practical solution for another project.
oh. i get it know, a draft for the ENTIRE vds. nope. no fun in that at all.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
ja
If it were automated, we could open it to allow groups to form their own drafts and such. That would be pretty fun times, I’m thinking :D
Or pile them all together and
allow each rider to be chosen a set number of times, proportional to the number of players. The draft order could flip each round (like we did) or it could be randomised every round or there could be a budget to bid on a low draft order (per round).
that requires way too much thinking
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Both options good!
And given how my sons team is whipping mine, I think not knowing/thinking is a very useful strategy
I refuse to say anything here
on the grounds that I have lots of time to suck.
Anyone who has every thought a working Photojournalist has a glam job needs to rethink...
by Christopher See on Mar 6, 2011 12:05 PM EST reply actions
Well, my team came crashing down to earth after a couple of good days.
Zero points today and nobody played even a remote role. Let me check our policies and see if Sundays are indeed “off work”.
I already gloated in two threads about my jump up the table.
Any more would certainly be tempting fate, so I’ll keep schtum. What sort of stage is in the Paris-Nice tomorrow?
Sprint
http://www.letour.fr/2011/PNC/COURSE/fr/200/etape_par_etape.html
163 m looks like it might create a split but the elevation doesn’t drop below 100 m for the whole stage, so, it’s more like a 50 m mole hill. And 16 km from the finish.
Goss, I suppose.
I was wondering where he was today, but he was just a few places back. He had to go so early to catch the break that he blew up.
My team was built for Feb 27th-April 10th
but is doing oddly well in punchy little Ardennes-type races and stage races, but they appear to be allergic to cobbles..
"It's crazy. In Belgium they would have stopped the train"
-Peter Van Petegem, April 2006-
Chris, 77th? Sounds like a sibling rivalry brewing
since I’m running away with trivia Monday..
"It's crazy. In Belgium they would have stopped the train"
-Peter Van Petegem, April 2006-
In my defense:
I have Ballan on Wheelies in the Gutter
There were a lot of fresh cowboys in the peloton and it was a nervous fuss. Tommeke
Me too
And he fucking owes me from last year.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 6, 2011 6:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I saw that you did and my heart sank
Don’t you jinx him!
There were a lot of fresh cowboys in the peloton and it was a nervous fuss. Tommeke
yeah yeah
My powers only work the first time I pick a guy. The second time I’m doing it out of spite, so it’s different.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 7, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
32nd
Pretty good for a team that cut Langeveld for Oss, Cunego for Velits and Poels for Pinot.
But I’m 35 points behind someone named “Riis.” Game on!
regular lead i'm tied for 41st (how the heck did that happen?). in ed's league i share 13th with pigeons.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
regular league (not regular lead. geez)
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Not on my team,
but so nice to see him still winning. Rambo!
I like tinkering with the boys.
- majope
Ha yourselves :)
A couple of young RadioShack guys did pretty well in Belgium over the weekend. Including young Michal Kwiatkowski, barely 21 years old – and only on 3 teams. I’m no RadioShack fan; it’s hard to cheer for them. But go Michal!
by sebastiandeluded on Mar 6, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but even so, the average age is about 37!
by Sarah Connolly on Mar 6, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Nope. 33.6 to be exact.
As old as Jesus!
by sebastiandeluded on Mar 6, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Nice
Hopefully you have better domestiques than he did.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 6, 2011 6:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
If anyone is actually curious...
Average age of RadioShack with Lance: 29.48. Without Lance: 29.12.
I yearn for the cobbles--Edvald Boasson Hagen
Freefall!
I went from 6th to 60something in just two days!
He's all custom carbon fiber, EPO and the Olsen twins. I'm more Surly Crosscheck, pot and the girl working the morning shift at the Circle K.
I went from 20ish to 150ish
But I’m still ahead of rbjhan, and that’s what counts.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Mar 6, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Top Of The World!!
Getting pretty lucky in the Editor’s league with my end of the line picks so far….VDS wise i am living up to our team name by being Middle of The Pack Fodder….175th
I'm lurking in second place but I'm sure I won't be a threat in the coming weeks
since my top name is some guy called………….CANCELLARA!
*cry face*
I wish I had picked him too, somehow… since Matti won’t be up for the win in Flanders
Shut up legs!
I like Cancellara, I cheer him on, but he really doesn't have anything left to prove.
He’s likely to do wonderful things, but he always does wonderful things. As a DS, I’d either end up complacent, or riddled with anxiety that this time he’d fail. That’s why I tend to fill my team with youngsters and guys coming back from off-seasons. Then when they win, it’s JOY!
I yearn for the cobbles--Edvald Boasson Hagen
Let me tell you, there is no joy in being mocked by crashdan and Jimbo when they are beating you in the Ed's league
(Otherwise you perfectly summoned up my VDS strategy too, my highest cost rider is Gesink at 18.)
I looked at your team majope
and I don’t think you pick youngsters just because when they win its JOY. You can call your team the young and the beautiful and just admit you like watching….
Oh, dearie me--are some of them attractive?
I’ll have to get out my bifocals and check…
I yearn for the cobbles--Edvald Boasson Hagen
It's fun Ted...and at least he has a go. He obviously didn't learn English where you did,
but it makes it more impressive frankly.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
24th to 117th in two days
even with de Gendt. The measly points given out for his win could not compensate for the inflated bonanza of the Strade Bianche. If I’m lucky, he gets another 6 points today :(
Of course if I had Gilbert&co, I’d be waxing lyrical about the magnificence of the Strade Bianche. Which looked so good on the … occasional tiny photo posted by Gazzetta.
Never mind, enjoyed while it lasted, and next week I am looking at Passo Fedaia in person! Wahey!
of course
there is a run just above the reservoir which is my favourite – should keep it secret really! But you are nice folk, you won’t tell everyone.
Skiing?
During Tirreno-Adriatico??? Well, I suppose you can get off the mountain for the final hour and redeem yourself.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 7, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I rather thought of going to see MSR
It would be too much trouble to get near the finish (out of our way) – any ideas where else to watch it? On the uphill bits? But when do they close the road? How does one find this out?
Just read an article on watching MSR
Unfortunately it was on paper and in swedish. One thing they mentioned was that they close the Poggio pretty late to traffic, about an hour before the race passes. The Poggio seems the natural choice to watch it on as well.
Thanks!
See what I get permission for… The Poggio would indeed be the best. But to go that far west, coming from the Dolomites, we’d need to stay in the area that night. A possiblity!
I wonder
it looks like the A10 runs parallel to the smaller road where I assume the race runs. I wonder if you could follow the race and pull over to watch a couple times? We did this in Paris-Roubaix, seems like it can’t be much more difficult here.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 7, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
Without knowing more
I’d say start in San Remo and work backward. It’s always decided at or near the end regardless.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 7, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
steephill has excellent extended coverage of the Strade
There were a lot of fresh cowboys in the peloton and it was a nervous fuss. Tommeke
I like that Ed's league format
I think the Ed’s league is a great format, would be good to do it for the masses next year if possible. It means that everyone can’t jump on the bandwagon of a promising rider (Bling). But also that you don’t feel forced to take someone – for example I didn’t want to have Sagan but felt I had to take him as most others would, and if he had a storming year I’d end up miles behind.
Looking at the number of top riders around, 20 teams might be the optimal number though?
A suggestion
you could form a similar league, and if you do it quickly enough you could have one for this season. Make a post inviting people, cut it off after whatever number you want, and start drafting!
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 7, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
I entered all teams on the VDS website after drafting was done, but the whole thing happened on a spreadsheet (online Google Docs spreadsheet where multiple people can view/edit). Before this year, the scoring in the Ed’s League was also done on that same spreadsheet. It takes some work to set it up and to keep updating scores but the chat during drafting and when updates get mailed to the group is much fun.
I have points!
After a whole week of goose eggs, I finally have points!
Granted its 65 pts and I’m have climbed to a whopping 667th overall. But I see a pinhole of hope at the end of the dark tunnel.
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
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