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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Tour de France Stage 18: Andy Schleck Goes Big, Wins Stage, But Voeckler Still Leads

Andy Schleck, Leopard Trek, Tour de France 2011. Photo: Michael Steele/Getty.

Andy Schleck won the 18th stage of the 2011 Tour de France with a brave show of force, launching an attack on the penultimate climb of the day, the Col d'Izoard, and systematically climbing past the remnants of the day's early breakaway. While his move was not quite enough to clinch the yellow jersey, Schleck now sits above all the other general classification contenders by at least 53 seconds.

Results

Stage Results

  1. Andy Schleck (Leopard Trek)
  2. Fränk Schleck (Leopard Trek) 2:07
  3. Cadel Evans (BMC Racing Team) 2:15
  4. Ivan Basso (Liguigas-Cannondale) 2:18
  5. Thomas Voeckler (Europcar) 2:21

General Classification

  1. Thomas Voeckler (Europcar)
  2. Andy Schleck (Leopard Trek) :15
  3. Fränk Schleck (Leopard Trek) 1:08
  4. Cadel Evans (BMC Racing Team) 1:12
  5. Damiano Cunego (Lampre-ISD) 3:46
  6. Ivan Basso (Liquigas-Cannondale) 3:46
  7. Alberto Contador (Saxo Bank) 4:44
  8. Samuel Sánchez (Euskaltel Euskadi) 5:20
  9. Tom Danielson (Garmin-Cervélo) 7:08
  10. Jean-Christophe Péraud (AG2R) 9:27

Frank Schleck and Cadel Evans finished second and third, as Schleck jumped around in the final meters. Evans did a massive ride on the Galibier to turn back the clock on Andy Schleck. Ivan Basso crossed the line fourth. Thomas Voeckler continued to defy expectations by holding on for 5th on the stage, only conceding time in the final 300m of the stage when the chase group splintered. 

The biggest story of the day was the expected shake-up of the general classification, and the défaillance of Alberto Contador on the final climb of the day. Contador conceded 1:30 to Evans in the final three kilometers of the Galibier. Samuel Sánchez also had a rough day at the races and dropped down the classification. The race has narrowed now, as Fränk and Andy Schleck battle for time against the implacable Cadel Evans.

Tomorrow will be even more interesting now, as Andy surely will feel the effects of his time off the front today and Evans is likely to feel a sting in the legs after doing all the work in the chasing group in the last 10km. This should set up Frank Schleck beautifully to put time into all his rivals, who will be both tired and watching Andy.

After surviving the Col de l'Izoard with the bigs, Rein Taramae of Cofidis took over the lead in the White Jersey competition from Rigoberto Uran of Team Sky. Pierre Rolland now sits second at 33 seconds after he held on to the Evans group until near the final slopes of the col du Galibier.

Mark Cavendish retained the Green Jersey, but not without a bit of drama. The grupetto finished outside the time cut, but because the group numbered some eighty riders, the race jury applied the 20% rule and allowed them to continue the race. If 20% of the race field is outside the limit, they will not be time cut, according to the rules. The race jury did apply a 20 point penalty to the riders in the group. Cavendish now leads the points classification by 15 points over JJ Rojas.

Thomas Voeckler, Yellow Jersey, Europcar, Tour de France. Photo: Bryn Lennon/Getty.

Star-divide

Racing was hot, hot, hot in the valleys as the stage started. The first hour averaged 50km/hr, which if you need reminding is hella fast. After some furious racing, 13 riders got away with 3 more chasing on eventually. The 16 were composed of:

Roche (AG2R), Duque (COF), Tjallingii (RAB), Perez and Moreno (EUS), Irizar (TRS), Hondo (LAM), Deplace (SAU), Erviti (MOV), Brookwalter and Burghart (BMC), Devenyns (QST), Monfort and Posthuma (LEO), Iglinsky (AST), Navarduaskas (GAR), Hoogerland! (VAC), Silin (KAT), and Delage (FDJ). 

FDJ nearly ruined their record of having a guy in every early breakaway, but Delage managed to pull himself across the gap with Burghart and another, saving the day for the exposure-hungry team. Delage has probably ridden close to 800km off the front of this race so far - talk about a hard way to earn a paycheck.

Climbing the Agnel, the break has over 7 minutes advantage but Andre Grivko (AST) and Phillipe Gilbert (OPL) launched an ambitious attack, hoping to close the gap. I don't think these guys could have chosen a more daunting task, for that is a LOT of real estate to cover. It's Belgium's national holiday, though, so perhaps that will give Gilbert wings. Really, it's surprising to see Jelle Vandendert not in the front group chasing mountain points. He would be set after today, if he isn't already. Plus, the chance to get another mountaintop win on your national holiday is hardly anything to be scoffed at. The two also got company from Leipheimer, DiGregario (AST), Koren (LIQ), Barredo (RAB), and Riblon (AG2R), but they're having a hard time getting a lot of separation, only pulling out 20 seconds after two kilometers of hard work. Stuart O'Grady is driving things on the front, dropping a lot of sprinters out of the back already. Over the top of the Agnel, Iglinsky out-sprints Devenyns for points on top of the climb, but I suspect he was more interested in the 5,000 euro prize for the first rider to cross the highest point in the tour. Not a bad payout for an hour of suffering, no?

In other news, Contador has been seen back at the race doctor's car already today. Speculation is he's complaining about his knee, even if there is little the race doctor can do for that, especially during the race. Whatever the reason, he's either sandbagging or showing his cards way earlier than he'll want to. 

Onto the Izoard and Leopard Trek moved to the front to pick up the pace again, Andy Schleck sitting in third wheel. Then, with 60km to go, Andy attacks and quickly opens up a lead of close to two minutes at the summit! Not much reaction from the other favorites, though BMC, Euskatel, and Saxo start driving it at the bottom of the descent. Speaking of descending, Andy hooked up with Monfort at the top of the Izoard and actually increased his lead by 45 seconds on the descent. How about that, bet he won't be complaining about the descents today. Going under 25km to go and the gap is over 3 minutes and alternatingly holding steady or going out. 

With 20km to go the gap is up to 3:40 between the two groups despite the work of sufferface Sorenson and 2 BMC riders with similarly painful facial expressions. Devenyns, Iglinski, and Silin were caught earlier by Schleck and Monfort and Devenyns are providing a lot of firepower to drive this group. Or, should we say D€v€nyns, as one commentator has quipped on twitter? Speaking of money, the guys over at NYVelocity are wondering if Euskatel has completely drained Contador's PayPal account after generously providing so much pacesetting. You really have to follow INRNG and NYVC on twitters this tour. En Fuego, these guys.

This is a really interesting situation on the road. There is a headwind coming down the Lauterant, but it's not eating into Andy's lead even after Monfort blows a gasket, promptly sending him backwards at an alarming rate. The group of favorites behind has workers on the front, but it's surprisingly their mountain goats like Navarro and CA Sorenson, which is not who you want to burn out so early. The favorites are all unwilling to work in the headwind for fear of being duped in the final 10km on the Galibier, especially by Frank Schleck. Really, Kim Anderson has finally taken a page out of Riis' book. This is what Contador needed to do, in my opinion, but missed the chance to. Watch as Evans gesticulates to everyone to work...

Picture_2525202_medium

The turn onto the Galibier proper comes at 8km to go and Schleck dumps Iglinski almost immediately. There is nobody else ahead of him on the road, so he's looking good for a stage win no matter what. Evans attacks out of the chase group but gets chased down, then he has to do all the work as nobody else is willing to. To win the race, you have to ride. And also to risk losing it, as Andy and Cadel are both showing us. Voeckler is cannily playing on his non-favorite status to avoid doing the work to defend yellow. Canny, this dude.

At 6km to go Cadel has really started to eat into Andy's advantage, it's dropped 45 seconds now. The favorites group is also splintering, with Sanchez being the most notable rider caught out. Voeckler still looks comfortable on Evans' wheel and still has Rolland for company. Basso also has Smyzd, but those are the only workers left. Andy's style is less fluid than earlier, for sure. Can't say I blame the dude, though - he's been out front for 50+km already.

With 3km to go Andy is a full kilometer ahead of the chase group and the gap is stabilizing around 3:10-3:15. Evans not looking so fresh any more, and now Andy is on the steeper stuff where he has more of an advantage. Evans' grimace is a lot less nice to look at than Andy's. 

2km to go for Andy, 3.5 for the chase. Contador pops! His run at this tour seems over, as he'll lose about 1:35 to the other contenders at the top. Also, Andy is chased by a Zombie, which injects a little urgency into his climbing. 

Picture_2525205_medium

Into the final steep stretch and Andy is dying a slow death but comes in solo and smiling. Brave ride by the dude, seriously. Then Frank comes in second after attacking into the final 300m, Evans leads the others home 2:15 down. Gaps to everyone, who came apart in the final few meters. Voeckler cracks in the final 300m, but he manages to hold onto yellow, just barely!

Top ten on the stage:

Picture_25252011_medium

Full results here.

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Comments

Display:

@inrng said the grupetto should be OK

No idea whether Cav is in it though

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cav is not in the grupetto

1:30 to the cutoff

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correction, just a group

Cav is almost certainly OOT, but a lot of riders are

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Cav is still in the race, he's losing points today

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he's just penalized points and not disqualified from the Tour

He’ll still win green. The penalty is 25 points, and he had 35 on Rojas entering today.

by Aly Edge on Jul 21, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

20 points

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

But then he still has Paris

as long as he keeps up with a grupetto, he’ll be fine. It’s only if he gets dropped from the grupetto and they don’t let him back in.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup, but what if

- he flats before the sprintermediate
- crashes in the last km’s
- ….
he’s lost his safety margin today

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

You 100% sure of that?

Rojas only got dropped after the second climb today, together with Voigt. Hell, Voigt got dropped before him.
Freire won a stage which had the Tourmalet once…

Rojas for the break tomorrow!

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what?

If he loses another 20, he’ll be down 5. If he finishes first or second on the Champs, provided he’s not second and Rojas first (which is unlikely), he’ll still win it. Neither of them will make it to the midsprint tomorrow, and the midsprint on Sunday will likely only provide for a variance of a point or two. Unless you think Rojas will win on the Champs or otherwise finish better than Cavendish, it’s over and done for.

by Aly Edge on Jul 21, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or Cav crashes

Or misses his lead-out.
Or someone attacks on Champs (has been done before)
Or he OOTs completely tomorrow
Or…

It ain’t over til the Eifel tower sings

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or what if it snows and they cancel all the climbs and make it a flat stage

You can’t plan for things that unlikely to happen. It’s pretty much over.

by Aly Edge on Jul 21, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cav OOTing

Or someone attacking on the Champs is NOT unlikely

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

What a race.

Fantastic ride by A Schleck. Chapeau.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Superchapeau

Even if he doesn’t win the Tour, to me he feels like the winner

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would give credit to Evans for taking charge up the last climb. It response came a bit

late, but it was pretty strong. Also Voeckler was magnificient defending the jersey.

I would still support any of those three as the winner at this point.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

They'd all be worthy winners yes

But damn, that was an attack from far out

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

That was do or die.

I’m rooting for Andy now.

That type of daring deserves reward.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice post, Dansel.

Good screen caps…but this leopard attack one should be on top.

In loving memory of Dale Earnhardt - 4/29/51 - 2/18/01

by swells on Jul 21, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

except that it just happened this week

and hurt a lot of people. This isn’t some random pic.

Your mileage may vary.

by savory on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

oooh. Did not know that.

In loving memory of Dale Earnhardt - 4/29/51 - 2/18/01

by swells on Jul 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

When I first posted link, I 1) though the guy was wearing a helmet (somehow that makes it funny, for me), and 2) didn’t realize the extent of previous carnage (literal carnage).

by Sui Juris on Jul 21, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Similarly

Just saw the picture and thought it was appropriate, didn’t know any of the details behind it.

by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tell you this,

I wouldn’t be near big cats like that.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

even with a shotgun and helmet.

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Almost every cycling pundit (me too)

proven wrong by Andy today.

Attack on 2nd to last climb, gained time on descent, and continued on.

On the highest TdF finish in history. Legendary win.

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 12:07 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

We discussed this yesterday

I never saw Andy as the person executing the strategy.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I said if the Schleck Bros. wanted to 1 2 punch ...

… they had to do with one of them going on an early attack and the other marking the rivals.

I didn’t peg it as Andy necessarily being the one going on the early attack, though.

And risking his place on the podium to try to win the tour, its by no means sure that he’s won the tour, but he sure as hell has cemented his place on the podium.

by BruceMcF on Jul 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Evans rode like a champ

But damn that was dice rolling by A. Schleck.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did have two team-mates up the road ...

… but if, as some have suggested, he’s given up a little of the snap in his attacks as he’s improved his time trialing, waiting to try to shake Evans and Contador on the final slopes of today and tomorrow would by a dice roll as well.

And of course, the dice haven’t finished spinning yet ~ we have yet to see tomorrow who will recover best from the pain of today.

by BruceMcF on Jul 21, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is something I wished he'd do for a couple years....

Now that he finely did, whether he ends up as winning or loosing the final overall, today’s ride was a beautiful thing to see.

by Veloki on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

you weren't proven wrong

he finally took your advice and proved you were right all along.

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chapeau Schlecks

Great win with gruit effort and daring.

He just said “no gut,no glory.”

Precisely.

Now, 56 seconds does not strike me as enough to hold off Cadel in the TT.

He still needs another minute.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Let me add

Evans was mych smarter about this than me.

He rode precisely the way he was supposed to.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Cadel sit's up

the Tour was over … for everyone except AS

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

+2

Luckily he took charge as he really should.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cadel

saved his energy and rode at exactly the right pace for him.

Brilliant ride by him imo.

Absolutely brilliant.

Schleck was magnificent of course.

But in terms of poise and intelligence, my respect for Evans has shot through the roof.

.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was so afraid Cadel was going to get punked by everyone sitting in

Turns out he was just putting it to everyone. Shows you can’t tell where the riders are at when things are rolling, until they pop off of course.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whole books of matches burnt today.

It looked to me like Andy blew up somewhere in the last 2k—how deep did he have to go?

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

2 more days left.

Still have to ride another climb, and be top form in a TT.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Andy needs another 2 phenomenal performances to win the GC

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd also suggest that Cuddles and TV made a huge effort on the Galibier

Some incredible pain-faces going on from both of them. I don’t think anyone had any more matches to burn today, I think tomorrow’s winner will be the one who can recover the best and is in best condition.

by snickwell on Jul 21, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's legs looked to be buckling in the last k.

I don’t know how he stood up in that last 100m or so.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is why

Cadel is scratching his head trying to understand how the leaders were still gaining time.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

What if

Frank attacks tomorrow and Evans has to do all the pulling again, letting Andy cruise on his wheel, that might tire Cadel out enough so that a minute might be enough

by TheElrad on Jul 21, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right now that's all Frank and Andy have to do...

double up on Cadel tomorrow. I hate to see it because I so want Cadel to win, but that’s bike racing.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He must be.

And Frank put in a lot of pulls in the breakaway. He could be pretty worked too.

Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
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If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

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by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did I get that wrong?

I thought I saw Frank leading Andy in the breakaway earlier on. I was only ducking in and out at that point, so apologies if I got it wrong.

Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

-Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes he was!

he’s earned his paycheck this tour

by WaterGirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

he’s earned his paycheck this tour year
He’s been awesome all year long

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gerdemann and Fuglsang . . . otoh . . .

should be required to forfeit their shares of the prize money.

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

And, obviously, Fugls rocks the manscarf.

You don't quit the Tour because of a thick lip--Laurens ten Dam

by majope on Jul 21, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And he has sculpted eyebrows and he's Andy's bestie. Still shouldn't be there.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's pretty, and i'm sure he's sweet, but he's still got a way to go.

Don’t laugh, but I’d offer Kloden whatever he asked in Euros if I was Nygaard. He’s not fussed about winning for himself and he’s a very reliable domestique…with TdF winners.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Second year in a row.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I suspect that management need to stop listening to AS who wants him there.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was Monfort

Frank was in the peloton the whole day

by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wheelsucking

"I love the guys that everyone else in the peloton hate to see hit the front." sminer

by fancan on Jul 21, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sitting in.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

what he said

Inaction is sometimes more strategic than action – its a bit unfair to be negative about it. Label it unexciting if you like but there is hardly anything wrong with it.

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why in the name of all that is holy

Would Frank do anything but sit in the peloton today? What’s he gonna do, chase down Andy?

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Further proof

That I’m a moran.

Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

-Orwell, Politics and the English Language

www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Go Cards!

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too perfect

Did you guys plant him?

If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you not aware of all internet memes?

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

did he?

when? I didn’t see it

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

they're all exhausted

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that sure?

There’s people who tonight will be moving from dreaming of the podium in Paris to planning how to achieve it … who would be spotting more time in the ITT to Frank than Cadel is. Seems like Cunego and and Basso sitting about 2’38" behind FS would need to take an attack by Frank Schleck seriously, if either has the legs to do so.

by BruceMcF on Jul 21, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Frank attacks tomorrow,

Cadel has to sit on his wheel, he doesn’t necessarily have to pull. He just has to make sure he doesn’t get put in front. Nice thing for him is that Contador and Basso are probably out of the picture. Most important is Contador. Basso could only wear Cadel out, not put him in difficulty with explosive acceleration.

I think once Cadel has a shower and a sleep he won’t be too unhappy with the situation.

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

He rode a great ride today.

No cracking, no sense of fear just chugged along until the finish.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

Wanted more from Szmyd, but he had nothing to give today.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both Basso and Cunego now have one more mountain stage to try to ...

… ride into the podium in Paris. For Basso to take 15" from Cunego to pull level with him, 1’32" from Contador and 2’24" from S. Sanchez to pull ahead of them ~ seems a fairly good result from a day of not riding for it.

by BruceMcF on Jul 21, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was one of the strongest rides I have ever seen

I had begun to start to doubt young Mr. Schleck…quite pleased to be proved wrong. It’s still weird to think that we will finish a Grand Tour and not have Alberto Contador on the top step.

by Aly Edge on Jul 21, 2011 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

As for Contador

Obviously, he is not all there.

To win this Tour, he would have need to catch every break and bluffed his way past the Schlecks.

Looks the the 5 of 6th strongest rider here.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't know if this occurred to anyone else

But this was a phenomenal bike race. Chapeaux to Andy and Cadel, and many thanks to Tommy Voeckler for yet another reminder of why I like him so much.

I’m no Andy fanboy, but I think a large number of PdC’s great and good should be lining up to eat some of the crow that he is no doubt dishing out right about now.

And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.

To conclude: what a wonderful stage we just saw.

Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

-Orwell, Politics and the English Language

www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I think it's occurred to all of us

Personally, I’m stunned at how impressive it was.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry if you missed the facetiousness.

Doesn’t always come across over the interwebs.

Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

-Orwell, Politics and the English Language

www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did

probably due to still being stunned by the stage.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Facetiousness aside

I’m with you.

Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

-Orwell, Politics and the English Language

www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least....

…I have a new tagline to go with my crow.

And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher

by StickyMU on Jul 21, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haven't seen the Tour. Good effort of Evans

But do we really want to see a Tour winner who didn’t attack once.. Or just followed and didn’t get a gap on other riders?

by Frinking on Jul 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Evans hasn't attacked?

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

We won't get one.

Andy, Cadel and Tommy have all attacked.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Once you have a reputation

it’s very hard to get rid of it…

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lessor rider would have refused to lead the chase and the Tour would be over

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep, I think he miscalculated the strength of the chase

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

An even better rider would have attacked up the Agnel

And stayed away for 20 minutes on the field.

Cadel had the guts to do what he had to do. Give people credit for what they did, not debit for what they couldn’t do.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

so don't say cadel doesn't deserve

If you are not watching. He has done an excellent races and certainly deserves it.

"Andy Schleck is officially a whinny bitch" - Gizzardfanny

by perezbike on Jul 21, 2011 6:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

soooooo...

how ’bout that new signature?

by professorfate on Jul 21, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've seen summaries..

But as I stated/asked. I think a Tourwinner shouldn’t be in a “I have a TT so I just think about losing at less time as I can” I hope he gets second.. On a second or less. That will be so nice

by Frinking on Jul 22, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

In that case

I assume you don’t want to see TT’s in the Tour, or at least you want them to be short. Though one 43k TT is not a lot compared to what they used to have. Actually, it seem to be the case that it’s the least amount of individual time trialing since the dinosaurs wandered on earth.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fine if they do that.

I don’t like the specualting on them part. And they just shouldn’t be on the last day. LEt the mountains be decisive. So the 42km TT and after that the Gaulibier an Alpe d’Huez would be perfect. Altho logistic complicated because of the Alpe d’Huez Paris distance

by Frinking on Jul 22, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fairly sure they all thought

“You’re attacking NOW? You’re insane boy.”

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

they must not read what we say here

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

That plus leading the attack in the chasing group today up the whole climb.

Not a contador/schleck, dance away from the others- Cadel doesn’t really have that type of attack in him on huge mountains. But a relentless pace up the Galibier that rode off all but a few of the peloton despite their shelter from the headwind.

I think that was attacking riding.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

welcome

tough to win a stage without ever attacking, no?

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will never understand this

Why not just have 5 stages, all in the high mountains and give the winner of that the Yellow Jersey. Cadel rode to his strengths, attacked enough to win a stage, followed noone today, cracked Contador & SamSan, and pulled everyone else up the final climb.

I want to see a winner who is aggressive (not necessarily attacking), rides smart and shows heart. Cadel has done that this entire Tour. Andy did that today. That is what I want to watch. That is how I want to see someone win.

And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher

by StickyMU on Jul 21, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

um

because that’s not a Grand Tour? ;-)

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because the length of the race adds other factors.

Otherwise you might as well watch i short 5 stage race.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

we’d see this if only they’d make TdS a grand tour :)

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

and frankly almost every stage has been fabulous this year (which isn’t usually the case)

GT’s are about lots of stories like:

Phil Gil …. awesome in 1st week but never going to win

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true, because a rider similar to Gilbert...

say, someone like Voeckler, would never be able to (win)

; )

Bunch of slack-jawed faggots around here. This stuff will make you a god damned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me - Jens! Voigt, Predator (1987)

by tenchu on Jul 21, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would appear my sarcasm was not caught?

Or perhaps I have missed the boat. I read Frinkings post as being, “I want to see a winner who can make Lance, Contador, Schleck attacks in the mountains”. I will never understand that attitude/choice.

And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher

by StickyMU on Jul 21, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

uhg..hit post too soon

I like that Cadel is in the hunt (and TV as well) by using a different tactic. If people only want the high mountain attackers to win the overall, then you end up with a far more boring race. As Willj states above, nearly every stage has been fantastic this year. And that has generally not been the case in the last decade of racing.

And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher

by StickyMU on Jul 21, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

These are the two main styles that win modern Tours

The devastating attack up mountains, and the power-climber/ITT guy.

Indurain is perhaps the epitome of the power-climber/ITT monster.

The Tour is at its best when both styles of riding are clashing against each other.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I guess that’s why this conversation exists at all!

And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher

by StickyMU on Jul 21, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe

they can all go off in the Dauphine and have that battle.

If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Inrring
Cavendish loses 20 points, meaning he now has 15 point lead in the Points competition.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:24 PM EDT reply actions  

with probably another points deduction tomorrow

the battle for green will be exciting at the ChampsElysées

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It certainly makes a Rojas win more possible

Still doubt that Cav will lose it as Rojas hasn’t been anywhere near him in any of the recent bunch sprints

by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

especially if

Rojas can somehow get himself over the Galibier tomorrow to take out some sprint points. Yeah, unlikely, I know

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's the cause for the loss of points?

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Came in after the cut off time.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

No worries. my typing is awful too.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think an 87 rider group was big enough

88 over the time limit, but Richie Porte was ahead of the final grupetto and only missed the time limit by 37 seconds.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

40 in Cav's grupetto, apparently

And yeah, of course that’s sizeable enough. Just saying, if he comes in OOT with just some HTC’s for company, he won’t be let back in.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

what's up with porte?

wasn’t he supposed to be helping contador in the mountains?

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well you may ask. Perhaps the Giro's in his legs too?

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Throwing him into the Giro in the last second was looney

He had built for his first TdF. Now they didn’t get any mileage out of Gustav Larsson in either Giro or Tour while Porte rode at 80% at the Giro and was wasted by the Tour. Saxo are paying for their uncharacteristically poor teamselections this year.

by Jens on Jul 22, 2011 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 22, 2011 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

 I told that kraut a fucking thousand times that I don’t cycle on Shabbos!

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

booooo

for losing points or booooooo for being allowed to continue?

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was wondering about this:

at this point in the tour, why NOT kick ’em out?

It’s not like most of those guys would be on tv for the final time trial anyway . . .

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

What, and spoil the show in Paris?

Have to have sprinters aiming for the stage glory on the Champs Elysee.

by BruceMcF on Jul 21, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but

having 20 or so guys doing the circuits of the Champs Elysees would look ridiculous

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's what Desgrange would have wanted

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, true

Still, we can dig some traps on the Champs, right?

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

A concealed pitfall in the tunnel.

20 riders go in, not quite as many come out the other side. Add a bit of mystery to the race!

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why not?

Let’$ $ee…

If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

pretty ugly

To have half peloton riding in the champs elysees.
Plus as most have already said it is more of a wrong categorization of the stage than people being totally uncapable of dealing with the parcours

"Andy Schleck is officially a whinny bitch" - Gizzardfanny

by perezbike on Jul 21, 2011 6:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Coming in late with the group is an automatic penalty

but you get to stay in the race.

there’s really zero room for interpretation in the rules.

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

so what would frank say

About Andy attacking while Contador wasn’t feeling good? Is Andy being nervous or something? Kidding.

Good ride by AS, but I’ve already been disappointed by the way he raced in this year’s Tour. No pulls during the TTT, no clobbering Bert earlier, and then complaints about descents. I don’t know. I guess I expected more from him, and an attack and a win on a mountain stage didn’t really undo previous stages. Voeckler’s been putting everything on the line as an underdog. If anyone deserves to be on the top podium in Paris, it’d be him, not Andy.

Sorry, guys. I’m a minority voice in all this, I’m afraid. :(

by evremonde on Jul 21, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with you.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

me too

Except for the fact that I think cadel deserves it more.
Rode like a champ for 18 stages and counting.
Anything can happen on the next 2 stages but if he looses he will have nothing to regret.
The same for TV they will have to rip it from his shoulders if they want the yellow jersey.

But if Cadel looses I will really put my disapointmentface on Saturday.

"Andy Schleck is officially a whinny bitch" - Gizzardfanny

by perezbike on Jul 21, 2011 6:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He only deserves it more.

If he has the quickest time in Paris. No matter the race, the time is what matters.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't really see why he needed to attack any earlier.

They said all along they were waiting for the Alps and they have. I liked how Conta rode yesterday but you have to think he rode like that because he knew he would be hanging on at the very best today.

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that's true

I think Contador had to go hard days ago. He needed to make up a minute basically on every remaining stage to win, on a large group of guys.

I think today perhaps wasn’t as much of a physical crack as a mental one.

I’m sure he thought…. well, it’s over now.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dunno about that

Don’t believe we’ve ever seen a mental crack from Contador
it’s his mental and physical strength that makes him great.
Believe he could’ve won it w/just Giro or just crashes but both was too much, physically.

by Schmat on Jul 21, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, It's kind of a moot point because we'll never know

but at some point a rider is going to say “My opportunity is lost” and who knows when that point is…. even if it is in Paris, but they’ll say it at some point.

I still don’t think that means Contador “knew he would be hanging on at the very best” because THEN that means he thought that yesterday doesn’t it?

The fact was both he and Sanchez were trailing all race. They had to attack every day.

You don’t just make up 3 or 4 minutes in one stage against the best. Andy tried today, and he only got 2’30"

You can’t leave it until Alpe d’huez.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't understand your reply?

To me?
the quotes etc
Was saying only-
disagree w/your statement that Contador crack was mental not physical,

by Schmat on Jul 21, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

To both.

feel that the mental/physical is more related than we think.

I don’t think Contador was thinking he was in trouble going into the day, as Civetta claims, but I do think it’s possible he thought that going up the final climb.

Whether he’s thinking that because of a bum knee or not I dunno.

Let me ask you this:

When do you think, all Contador physical conditions involved, Bert would think “I don’t have it this year, I’m not going to overcome my deficits”

Before or during the stage?

If I wanna say that’s him mentally conceding defeat, and you wanna say that’s his body being unable to grasp victory, I don’t think there is a big difference in this case.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Are you hypothetically arguing a point about a hypothetical thought that’s hypothetically going through a rider’s mind? Respectfully, this seems like an awful lot of projection.

"His grandma must have been a sight to see on the descents." - Jens

by SpaceGuy on Jul 21, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Injured knees don't get magically better

especially not if you have to stress them.

Contador’s been tired, and then injured, and bluffing this entire tour.

We’ve seen it every time he’s tried to attack and NOT kept the gap.

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we don't have any idea about his knees

and can only go on what we see.

The last two stages his knees looked better to me, now they’re suddenly much worse?

I think there are a lot of factors we’ll never know. But with 5km remaining Bert was looking at a 4+ minute deficit to Andy Schleck with one mountain stage and a TT left. That JUST MIGHT BE when a guy shuts it down. Considering all he is fighting through.

Whatever reasons we want to site (giro, knee, deficit,) at some point the guy is going to be realistic about his chances.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

First comments by Alberto after this stage:

“Yes my knee is swollen but I also just had bad legs.”

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

(Or words to that effect. Obviously no direct quote, anyway, because it’s in English.)

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be honest

I don’t really understand who is agreeing or disagreeing or what anymore. I really think we’re all saying the same thing, just using different words, and don’t know what each other is saying?

Or maybe that’s just me?

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, being realistic, or shutting it down,

Not the same as cracking mentally.
maybe semantics to you, just think there’s a big difference.

Mental toughness is earned label for Contador, in my opinion at least.
Whatever combo of physical factors you choose doesn’t add up to mental kaboom.
FWIW

by Schmat on Jul 21, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know that?

I guess we define things differently.

I’m not saying Bert isn’t Mentally tough. he seems to be. Whatever that means.

Answer this: Do you not think there is a difference between fighting through pain when you’ve got a shot at winning and fighting through pain when you have no shot at winning?

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

mostly agree

Andy Schleck’s preparation—how ever you feel like construing that word—clearly was intended to maximize power AT threshold for long efforts, with the idea that this tour was going to be won with long efforts.

He’s had to concede time to folks with better 5 and 10 minute power profiles.

We’ll see how the rest plays out.

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

he finally got his tactics right today. Use your strenghts.

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe they did it like they dod at Liquigas for the '10 Giro:

Basso/Andy did enduance training, Nibali/Frank did acceleractions.

by Triki on Jul 21, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can now forget the complaints about the descending

planned or not, it certainly made his attack prior to a descent more surprising. There no way he gains as much time as he did if the field suspects he’s going to gain time downhill.

No pulls in an ITT…eh…that sort of thing happens when you can’t do a short ITT to save your life AND you have Spartacus on your team. I’d say that was more of a team decision that Schleck deciding to wheelsuck all on his own.

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And is stresses the fact that

cycling is a team sport. Which is the hardest thing to explain to people; having a stud TT’er on your team is worth every penny you pay him.

by Ruthann on Jul 21, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. I really love the team part.

It’s also not true that Andy took no pulls. He was in rotation. Stopped early-ish on, it’s true, but let’s be factual. Frank took no pulls – don’t know if that was planned (probably) or due to his troubles (hit in the head before the race and stung by a bee).

by KnittingGene on Jul 21, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with you kinda

gotta give credit where it is due for Andy, brilliant ride, but Leopard still annoys the hell out of me, Andy still doesn’t do anything before July but for one day and Cadel deserves one.

by Phil H. on Jul 21, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man, if Cadel misses out this year, because he didn't follow Andy this one time.

I’m gonna be devastated. I could be okay with him losing it because he didn’t have the legs. But so far, he’s had the legs! In the mountains!

Still, exciting finish.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think slash hope

Andy will be better if slash when he finally gets that TdF win.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

That when he finally wins a TdF

I think that’ll be a weight off his scrawny shoulders, and he can then focus on other races again.
Or maybe that’s just idle hope.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this too.

He is purely focused now on one goal only. If he achieves it, then maybe something else is next.

by paisley on Jul 21, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two deciders of the TdF GC now

1. How much of today’s efforts will come with a price tomorrow, and for who?
2. If Cadel hangs on within striking distance will it sap him for the TT just as it did in 2008?

by Jens on Jul 21, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Looks to me like everyone suffered.

Who has better recovery abilities?

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

It comes down to who recovers well enough for Alpe d'Huez

and maybe even whether after Alpe d’Huez any of the top four have enough in their tank for the ITT.

Completely up in the air until we see what happens tomorrow.

MJB

by MJB on Jul 21, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't imagine DoctorNurse's Jedis (Jens!, Stuey and Fabs) allowing themselves to be bested.

What might make the difference is that Montfort and Posthuma will exhausted themselves today.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wind.

Evans and A Schleck would have done the biggest effort today.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

For sure

But look at who ended up in the wind anyway sitting on Cadel’s wheel. Frank was the only one who looked unthreatened, he should be tomorrow’s animator.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vaughters
There was no “letting them have time” today. It was flat out behind….SmartOpard was just better. Period.

(twitter)

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting take

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope someone did the atomic explosion for AC during the live thread.

If not here it is… The Giro prevails!

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Not th Giro.

Crashes.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree

The other guys who did the Giro are suffering too

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

At one point, Contador was the only rider who had done the Giro who was in the top 35 overall

Don’t know if that’s still true…but it probably is. Probably even wider now.

by Aly Edge on Jul 21, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Contador is not behind because of the Giro.

He’s behind because of time losses and a knee injury, both due to crashes .

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, whatever.

He cracked today because I kept my focus.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

5 guys on his team raced the Giro.

    Maybe they were fatigued and couldn’t keep him at the front so his time losses and accidents could ultimately be attributed to tired Giro legs. They didn’t know they were riding the Tour until early June.

Super dope. Is that like EPO on steroids?

by flying dog on Jul 21, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this has something more to do with it than Contador himself riding the Giro.

The team is strikingly weak.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Navarro, Porte, CAS, Noval, Hernandez? Does sound strikingly weak at all. IMO.

by snickwell on Jul 21, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, that's what they have showed with their riding.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

And yet it seems that at many times they have left Bert completely unprotected.

Saxo also has the Sorensens who are normally very strong. CAS was in evidence late today, as was Navarro, but the absence of the whole team at certain times has been noteworthy.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of Horner's interviews earlier in the race

he talked about how he thought Bert looked good, but never had anyone around him – got bumped around a lot in the first week or so. You wonder how many of the crashes could have been prevented had he been better protected.

by WaterGirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. I'm a fan of many people on that team, but it's been a weak protection for Alberto.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

For sure. Embarrassing is the right word.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

But Riis should now have time and cash to do some changes for next season.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's hope.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The names are impressive

the performance, not so much.

Recovering from the Giro.

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Team did very well in the Giro. Not a single incident. Now, many mistakes and just poor performances.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

saxo

is the only team where the support riders rode the giro also. Tiralongo giving up the other day spoke volumes for the effects of the giro on the domestiques

by andrewp on Jul 21, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Possible argument

The Giro-Tour double is possible, but only provided that you can change all the other eight guys in your team from one GT to the next.

And no-one has that many good domestiques.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

+ euskatel

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree.

Like we have seen in the past. The Giro kills riders riders. Contador no diff.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, because it's happened to other riders

that must of course mean that that is why Contador is behind too.

We KNOW that the reason he lost time in the first weak was crashes. We KNOW that the crashes has given him a knee injury.

On the other we don’t know how the Giro has affected him.

But of course it’s more logic to put most value on the factor we know nothing about instead of the things that we know happened.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do we know for sure the crashes gave him the bad knee?

I thought he only got held up on stage 1 and then the second crash wasn’t so bad…?

by snickwell on Jul 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think there is enough history to give us a very strong indication.

The fatigue from the Giro was probably the reason why Contador was often sitting in the wrong end of the peloton (along with a team of smaller support riders).

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

History of Contador riding the Giro and then the Tour afterwards?

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh my,

It’s “defend AC to the death”, he could have used you on the road in this Tour. No way in Hell was Contador fatigued by the Giro, not even if he says so later, don’t believe him. He is above fatigue.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying he's above fatigue.

But saying the Giro is the sole or even the primary reason he’s not winning the Tour is just as silly.

Because noone has even tried doing both recently.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the Giro reduced his margin for error

And then more things went wrong than typical.

He could, IMO, have coped with the troubles (knee, time losses) without the Giro in his legs, and could have coped with the Grio if things hadn’t gone wrong.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can understand this stance.

What I donøt understand is the insisting that the Giro is the primary factor for him not winning the tour.

I’m nt saying the Giro hasnøt had an effect, I’m saying that I don’t know if the Giro had an effect, but that I know the crashes had an effect.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that the tour is over, ..

… now we know that the Giro had an effect, since Contador said so:

"I didn’t have a smooth ride through this year’s Tour," Contador said. "I had some early setbacks and I was feeling fatigue from racing the Giro. I was never at my best during this Tour, but I decided to keep fighting to the end. I would have liked to have finished on the podium, but I came here to win and I leave with a good taste in my mouth."

by BruceMcF on Jul 25, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Noone has tried winning the Giro & Tour in same year recently?

What about Menchov in ‘09? Yeah, he was a total non-factor in the Tour, but I think most of us agree that’s because he raced the Giro

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because Menchov had proven he could win teh Tour if he didnt race the Giro?

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Cadel and Basso in 2010

Menchov sat out the Giro in 2010 because of his experience in 09. Basso sat out the Giro this year because of his tour in 2010. Both were defending Giro champions at the time. Pretty good evidence of the fatigue factor I think.

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, now Cadel is nobody.

“2010, top 5 in Giro, 26th in TdF” “recently” enough for someone to take a serious crack at the Giro and then underperform at the TdF the same year?

Watch it mate ~ go around calling Cadel a nobody and there’s going to be a bit of biffo.

by BruceMcF on Jul 21, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't called anyone a nobody.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since Cadel tried both last year ...

“Because noone has even tried doing both recently.” implies Cadel Evans = noone.

by BruceMcF on Jul 21, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus he broke his elbow the stage he won the Yellow Jersey.

It that hadn’t happened I think he would have had a good shot at a podium.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course he broke his elbow because he had riden the Giro.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be silly to discount it as a factor.

Just as its silly to argue that having a fresher team and riding with protection in the first week would have done nothing to protect Contador from crashes this year.

by BruceMcF on Jul 21, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have actually agreed to that part the whole time.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know you're being sarcastic, but maybe.

It takes energy to stay at the front in the best place to avoid crashes. Energy from the GC rider, and his team. In regards to Contador, we’ve seen him along a lot of the time, near the back, getting jostled and bumped around in a way Cadel and the Brothers Schleck haven’t.

If Contador had had his spanish Armada surrounding him, at the front, maybe he doesn’t get caught up behind a crash, and almost certainly he doesn’t get whacked by the Mullet Who Rides.

Cycling is all about a bunch of intangibles. We can almost never isolate one variable and examine its impact. But we do know that tiredness from a previous big effort can make a rider and team less likely to do all the little things that help keep them safe and in a good position. Alberto seems to have had a lot of problems this tour from those little things biting him. I think the Giro is a big reason for that. Mileage will vary.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am quite sure the Saxo team has been struggling because theyøve riden both races.

I’m just finding it hard to see that Contador himself riding both races is the primary factor in putting him back.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

But it’s a long time since any one who we knew could win the Tour has tried racing both races.

Just because who hsn’t won the Tour previously don’t mange to win the Tour after winning the Giro, doesnøt make me think Contador definitely can’t. I don’t know and this year hasn’t convinced me otherwise when there’s been other things that have had a deciding effect too.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

No proven Tour winners have tried.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

We don't KNOW why he cracked today

But it doesn’t seem likely, with the way he started riding the last couple of days, that his earlier crashes or knee had anything to do with his explosion today.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless, of course, that we are arguing that a spectator stepped out on the road

because Contador had won the Giro.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

He already has 3 Tour wins

I applaud him for doing something different and especially because it was my lovely Giro. Plus he won the Giro by 6 minutes…worth it…

by Phil H. on Jul 21, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

This!

I respect for setting a new goal for himself.

So he didnøt succeed this year, but at least he tried and that’s the first step in reaching that goal. He’s probably learned a lot about what he must do to succeed that goal by trying.

I could imagine that he would go for the Tour-Vuelta double next year before trying the Giro and the Tour again.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shouldn't be riding, that's for sure.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's won Giro-Vuelta hasn't he?

So why not try to get all three pairs?

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he wants to see if he can win the Tour and one of the other GTs.

Securing the Tour before the Vuelta is less risky since the Tour is more attractive.

And yes, he has done the Giro-Vuelta double.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

they could have the pink/yellow plaid jersey for combined Giro / Tour time

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plaid jersey are so bad.

See combination competition jersey.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vertical halves

would be ugly as hell in pink/yellow

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

the way chava had his bike painted last year was pretty cool

one side yellow, the other green. could work with a jersey too.

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

They could do one lin 4 quarters like a jockeys colours

Or like those wild formal shirts that men wear under their tuxedo jackets. Or maybe a chequerboard? C’mon, live a litle!

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)

by platypus on Jul 22, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

"wild formal"? You lost me

(traditionalist)

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 22, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maillot Arlequin

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 4:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually the formal shirt I was talking about is exactly like this - on the sleeves

The rest of the shirt is a very standard stiff front white formal shirt. So I guess I meant a harlequin pattern

by platypus on Jul 23, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bravo Andy.

Great ride, I was pleasantly surprised.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 12:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Great ride by Andy, proved me wrong

I still think the favorites shit the bed. If this tour has proven anything, it’s that you cannot assume another’s weakness. Not responding on Izoard was a mistake.

I think they thought they could reel Andy in, and that screwed them, cause everyone was flat out after that.

I still think Cadel has the best position, but the Schlecks now have the advantage.

Podium is looking pretty much down to 3-5 guys now.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 12:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree

But Cuddles still the big favourite IMO (if he doesn’t choke)

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Assuming no changes in GC after tomorrow

you’re probably right. I’m kinda thinking the plan may be for both Schlecks to attack on Alpe d’Huez and have Frank pace Andy up

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think if Evans sits back.... he's making a mistake

The Schlecks know they need more time on him in the TT.

AND, Evans needs more time on them. If he lets Frank and Andy hold the time they have and everyone plays it passive. Andy might just be able to hang on in the TT.

I think Evans would fare better if the Schlecks are tired.

I think Evans should attack Andy as it may prevent Frank from being the aggressor.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Teams must be factored in.

Schleck got time cuz Poosthuma saved Monfort until Schleck needed Monfort.

What happens tomorrow?

Can BMC make it hard enough tomorrow to return the favor? Evans has to want yellow on top of the Alpe or be within 30 seconds. I don’t think he really wanted yellow today.

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

That, or he was biding his time again.

If he knows he’ll lose it all trying to ride with Andy for the stage, he played it smart.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

But if he'd chased Andy's initial attack

Surely the other bigs would have followed. And then maybe Andy wouldn’t have attacked enough to get away again, and it would have been the showdown on Gallibier instead.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

I think this was the mistake.

They should have been negating small attacks until the final. I think Evans proved he was as strong as anyone today, but he/they put themselves in a position to have to battle back

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably

I was giving half a chance to Banego… the combo of Basso and Cunego.

If Basso could gain 1 minute on Frank… which given this Tour wouldn’t surprise me at this point…. he could maybe be close….. but that’s VERY VERY VERY VERY unpossible.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would surprise me

Frank was the master wheelsucker today. Did nada

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, me too.... but surprises happen

Weren’t you surprised when Contador was dropped?

…. by a group containing Basso AND Cunego.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

He said in an interview, that he was pretty dead with 10km to go on the last climb. Most of us could see the trouble way before that.

by Uphill on Jul 21, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

and TV

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

What, pray tell should he have done?

Bring everyone close to his brother, teammate and teamleader?

by TheElrad on Jul 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't mean that as an insult to Frank

the only way this stage could have gone better for Frank (besides switching places with Andy) is if he had managed to secretly attach a chain to Evans bike and get towed up Galibier

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm

Basso and Cunego have caught 0 wind thus far this tour.

by kiwi_dude on Jul 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andy's much berated short attacks in the previous stage worked for him here.

Others didn’t expect a big long attack. They were surprised and they underestimated him.

by paisley on Jul 21, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I need to eat a little crow

I’m ridiculously happy for Andy – I didn’t think he had it in him. Good call by LT to pull in Moser & Merckx to offer some encouragement. (to be a fly on the wall for that convo) – But I still stand by my opinion that he’d be better served to race to win stage races throughout the year to help w/ prep.

Bert – chapeau – I like knowing that you left everything on the road. And that you’re human. There’s a reason you’ve won so much.

Still have no idea who will win.

by WaterGirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I am getting increasingly upset

about the prospect of Andy Shleck actually winning a Stage Race… and THE Stage Race ontop of that…

Fair play if he manages it. But there’s something odd about him. Perhaps I sense his Sith to Cadel’s recalcitrant Jedi…

by DickieC on Jul 21, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

He comes across as a "really really nice guy"

I think a lot of sports fans prefer their top-level athletes to be fiery, alpha-male competitors.

I love him, but I can see where he’s be a bit unsatisfying to certain fans.

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Andy comes off as a "really really nice guy".

At all. It’s why I don’t like him.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think he's coming off more and more as a talented guy behaving like a spoiled brat

When he completely slammed Sastre after Carlos’ Tour win was the first wrong in my eye…

Should we slam YOU Andy for your Carlos-esque attack today? Saying the only reason you won was Frank and Maxime?

And this Tour, I think he’s embarrassed himself with his comments and tweets.

by LawrenceS on Jul 21, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he's also embarrassed some of his stellar teammates.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

whines when he loses...

I can’t get behind him in a win. not even this one.

by willowby on Jul 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know...

It’s slighlty odd. I honestly have no rational basis for my dislike. It genuinely is nothing more than his Cherub-like pixie face… I just want to instinctively lash out. It probably says more about me than the amn himself… quelle dommage

by DickieC on Jul 21, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

To each their own

 I have no idea what type of guy he is off the bike, on the bike he is too often whiny for my taste.

by Phil H. on Jul 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel like he has that teenage know everything thing happening

I just want someone like Basso or Evans to give him the kind of lesson that might make him a bit more respectful.

Of course, who knows how I got my impression and whethe fits any more valid then the old (and stupid) Cadel is a defensive whi y wheel sucker rubbish) probably isnt.

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Come on!

It’s not like this is THE Tour de Pologne.

by Logy on Jul 21, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Complete results now in on official site

Garmin now have more than ten minutes lead in the team contest.

That may be the only one that is setlled today

Leads in everything else:
Yellow: 15"
Green 15 pts
Dots 2 pts
White 33"

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 12:43 PM EDT reply actions  

this may be the best Tour in a long time

All 4 jersey competitions still not decided with only 3 stages to go

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, indeed, we complain about recent stuff, but some old races had massive leads – and no TV :)

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

+2

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am enjoying it.

Seems like all but the Pyrenees were exciting.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great ride by Garmin again today

3 guys in the top 12, Tommy D stays in the top 10 in the GC, solid hold on the team lead…

by cmick on Jul 21, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

awesome day in the mountains again.

Unlucky that Cadel had nobody capable of support with him.

I was cursing TV and AC, but they were just hanging on.

I had a nice ride up Galibier, but chose to ride back on closed roads rather than freeze on the Col.

by Guinea on Jul 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I cant understand what Basso was thinking. He just must not have the legs.

(I can hardly bear to think about this – I’m kind of glad I didn’t watch it.) At least the tactical situation is clearer tomorrow.

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

I don’t think there was a single person that could have helped Cadel today. Other than Frank…

by Guinea on Jul 21, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this also.

I saw Basso try a couple times, but he couldn’t really do it.

by Jen See on Jul 21, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don’t like this 20% rule at all. If you’re out of time, you’re out of time. No point having a monster mountain stage, then giving 80 riders an escape route!

No more regrets

by LSRDiesel on Jul 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea, let's throw out 80 riders.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the riders knew they were actually going to get kicked out

No way that grupetto would have 80 riders. There were two guys – if that – in that grupetto who lost something today: Phil and Cav. And Phil is doubtful.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said Ma'am

Grupetto Schmupetto! I’m not a Cav hater, but this is ridiculous. Green is supposed to be the most consistent finisher. I think they’d better introduce a new Jersey for the sprinters, and leave green for the real conistent finisher.

No more regrets

by LSRDiesel on Jul 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Green is supposed to be the most consistent finisher"

Not sure about that.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

green

is whatever ASo say it is

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty much yes

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the problem is that the great unwashed masses who only watch the TdF (like me 12 months ago)

think the green is the sprinter’s jersey. So when it doesn’t go to the clearly best sprinter, everyone in the world has the kind of conspiracy discussion that we educated PdCers have about the combativity prize.

I think they better leave the green as sprinter and introduce a combo points jersey. then there would be sprint points, finishing points and mountain points. Maybe instead of doubling points for sprinter at flat finishes, award points in both jersey competitions.

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

There used to be a combination jersey

“The jersey was awarded to the cyclists that did best in all other classifications, the yellow jersey, green jersey and polka dot jersey. It was seen as the jersey for the all-round cyclist.” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_classification_in_the_Tour_de_France

by kisdm001 on Jul 21, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

And it was a damn horribly designed jersey.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's got polka dots

how bad can it be?

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

“no way that grupetto would have 80 riders”

Reading Sammy Dumoulin I think I disagree:

ASO really need to have another look at their time cut calculations: there’s no logic! 5000m of climbing and 33 mins, that seems like nothing! Yesterday 43 mins.

In French on twitter.

We’re only having this conversation because a lot of people have got it in for Cav.

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dumoulin, a sprinter?

Cav came in with LuLu Sanchez, and Pineau and Tejay today. TEJAY!

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not citing him as a sprinter.

I’m citing him as a well-respected, sensible, unobjectionable bloke.

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like it to - the organizers aren't going to categorize every stage correctly when it comes to setting time limits

since so many guys got caught out, and that they only missed the cut-off by a few minutes (and as someone pointed out – if this had be categorized as a 4, they would have made it) makes me believe this stage was categorized incorrectly, not that the riders weren’t trying.

by WaterGirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you take the time limit from Frank instead of Andy

then they only missed by 26 seconds. Missing out was more a sign of how great a ride Andy Schleck had than anything else.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

You do kind of wonder how three hors category climbs

after one day in the Alps already ends up as a level 3 instead of 4.

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree.

You don't quit the Tour because of a thick lip--Laurens ten Dam

by majope on Jul 21, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never understood why the OOT rule was based upon the winner’s time in the first place? Surely it makes more sense to use a percentage of the mean or median or the field? Then you eliminate the undeserving chaff but aren’t distorted by unusual “superhuman” efforts up front??

by DickieC on Jul 21, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well in one sense using the winner's time helps the autobus.

Because as soon as the winner finishes they know how long they have to finish. The radio can be telling them, you’ve got X minutes left. Whereas calculating the mean would have to be done after the stage.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

The more I think about it, the more awkward my suggestion seems…

by DickieC on Jul 21, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have a standard speed

x km/h on flat, y km/h at various percentages of climb, z km/h for various percentages of descent.

That way, when they do 50 km/h for the first hour they can get ahead of the schedule and make the time easier for the grupetto.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

there will always be discussion

in a 2% incline flat? False flat? Or a climb?

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

If 2% counts

I demand a KOM jersey for my two-bridge commute

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was just kidding

Though how great would it be do to my two-bridge commute in a KoM jersey?

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kom in m'n armen, broer(ie)

(Actually, I’d prefer her. No offence.)

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

No man, the 2009 dresses

(good excuse)

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

She can wear those if she doubles her climbs.

Cross that bridge 4 times everyday and you get the nice ’09 dresses, once, you get this years.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

She is unbelievably gorgeous- and I'm a disinterested bystander

How is she not married to one of the riders by now?

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Julie Blanc

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

perfection, in human form.

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 21, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

NOOOO!

Those things are an abomination. I’m sure Leviticus mentions it somewhere.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure

But someone decides on categories for climbs, which determines the KOM points. Never seen that argued over like this.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Elimination is dramatic

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doing it off the median would have been amusing today

As the median rider was in the autobus, so they were zero seconds behind the median.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am--in the first two weeks.

but I can also see the point that maybe the cut-offs need to be adjusted for the . . . uh . . . new normal.

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

why not?

This is like curving 40s into 80s in civil engineering classes: go with the real results.

And it would certainly mae tomorrow’s strategy way more interesting . . .

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

The time limit is there to stop people taking the piss but still allowing the sprinters to survive

If you have 87 riders not being able to make it inside and with them actually racing rather than mucking about in a group too big to cut then all that shows is that you don’t have your calculations of time limits correct as you shouldn’t be catching that many people

by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

or maybe

the rules are too tight on a stage with 3 HC climbs.

by savory on Jul 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was a "coefficient 3" stage

If it were a 4, they would have made it (12% instead of 9% for this speed). Tomorrow is a 4.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

This site has some knowlegeable badasses

We should make special shirts or wallets for ya’ll that say KBA or something. Like the dude in “Pulp Fiction” with the BMF on his wallet.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

We cool?

In loving memory of Dale Earnhardt - 4/29/51 - 2/18/01

by swells on Jul 21, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're gonna be cool.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is coefficient 3 based on distance

I’m saying the difficulty of the climbs should be a factor as well as distance.

by savory on Jul 21, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure it all factors in

In the end, it’s a judgement call by the race jury when determining the race rules. There is no fixed formula where you put in distance and elevation, and the difficulty parameter rolls out.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Samuel Dumoulin doesn't sound too happy

here

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

quite

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dear Andy...

Well, We have to admit, we were a little surprised by that spectacular attack today- rankly, we did not think that you had it in you- You have proved that you DO have it in you and are to be congratulated for demonstrating this in such an outstanding attack today.

Chapeau.

You have now put the entire race on the back foot, and by attacking with panache, conviction, strength and determination, you are beautifully positioned to possibly win your first Tour de France- Again Chapeau…

Fantastic move and nice work to also squeeze in your fondest desire of a 1-2 finish. While TV is the most dogged competitor out there and you have to be wary of the Cadel counterattack, by finally being AGGRESSIVE now you can send Franck up the road tomorrow in defense of your position, ride wheels to the finish and then see what happens in the TT.

You are certainly not a Jedi yet- Master Cadel has not had his final say- But you have certainly re-gained our respect. Job well done.

Your friends…

The Jedi Council of super-Elite Professional Bike Racers

by Doctornurse on Jul 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Hooray for Andy

and for an unbelievable TdF.

And from the looks of things, many more for years to come.

Yes, Evans has a good chance in this one, but after that?

Contador-Schleck rivalry now very meaningful *and in the record books, they may be 2-2 on TdFs after August.

by BTD on Jul 21, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope you’re not implying that Cadel, for all his gritty determination, is a Jedi master? Obi Wan would never countenance that brave, but plodding Oz as a Jedi. Love the guy, but couldn’t buy an attack if you gave him a Billion!

No more regrets

by LSRDiesel on Jul 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the contrary, Cadel's style was perfect for today

The grind-it-out-in-a-high-gear style was the only way to pull back as much time as he did.

Amazing he was able to do as much as he did considering he had no help and a train full of wheelsuckers behind him.

MJB

by MJB on Jul 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey editor people!

Please don’t edit without saying something! I just totally lost changes there :(

by Jen See on Jul 21, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Not it!

My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia

by Douglas Ansel on Jul 21, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hee :D

Cuz we got the Twat DM backchannel!

by Jen See on Jul 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fucking Drew

finally finds the buttons . . .

by Sui Juris on Jul 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gav, you surprise me

Mark, you can simply fuck off just like normal :-)

"Everybody relax, I'm here."

by Drew Davis on Jul 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me

Sorry. But, it can happen, right? How was I supposed to let every other editor know; 15 DMs, then wait? The dashboard should have a check-out/in feature or at least an indication who else is working on the article.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of all people.

This makes it funny. Sorry, Gavia. :D

by Sui Juris on Jul 21, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha, it is, really.

And no Ted, there’s no way to know, because the software thingy is not very smart. But you could dm me and ask ;)

by Jen See on Jul 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, that's just it,

if I have to DM you (and others) before editing, then I won’t bother at all. Which is fine by me.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ted's a menace

thanks for coming clean … as I was a prime suspect …. :)

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ricardovdvelde Ricardo vandervelde
“Outside the time limit, means? OUTSIDE of TIME! You didn’t make timecut GO HOME! Its unfair for al the other riders”

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions  

The rules are the rules

They should change the rules though.

I am not saying send the riders home, but a 20 point deduction is hardly stiff.

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

ftr

rule been in the UCI book a while

Finishing deadline
2.6.032
The finishing deadline shall be set in the specific regulations for each race in accordance with the characteristics of the stage.

The commissaires panel may extend the finishing time limits after consultation with the organiser. In case riders out of the time limit are given a second chance by the president of the commissaires panel, they shall have confiscated the equivalent points awarded to the winner of this same stage to their individual general classification by points even if their points total in this classification becomes negative.

(text modified on 1.01.02; 1.01.09; 1.10.09; 1.07.10).

Pretty sure Greipel got done by it a fair while ago, cant remember the race though

by andrewp on Jul 21, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cav busted a journalist for it

In the green jersey post stage interview he told them about 20 points deduction, journalist said “Can you confirm? It’s news to us” to which he replied: “It’s in the rules. Shows how much you know about cycling.” (or thereabouts, my recollection)

Legend.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 22, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't know if it's a UCI rule, rather think it's a race-specific rule

but I haven’t looked in the UCI rulebook. Of course, it may still have been collectively introduced.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 22, 2011 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like how you lump "accident" in with a "fierce GC race"

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point is that circumstance meant the time cut was ridiculously tight

and that it’s if anything harsh on Cavendish that he loses any points for what was if anything was probably one of his better mountain performances

by William H on Jul 21, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its not like Cav was the only one that missed the cut

There were some not-so-bad climbers missing the cut today, symbolic of just how hard Andy raced and not indicative of how shit nearly 80(?) riders can climb.

by snickwell on Jul 21, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

They should have just cut Cavendish then.

We all know Phil should be in green for the whole tour.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's my point

If the riders knew that OOT actually meant OOT, no way would Cavendish and Greipel would finish with Tejay Van Garderen.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

They gamed the system

They know they wouldn’t be cut if they all stuck together.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cav even said that in the post stage interview.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which means the system is faulty

Really, I’d stop discussing this if I had anything better to do. But I’m stuck here, all my pages nicely lay-outed and proof-read, except for three pieces by one correspondent, which haven’t come in yet.
He is so not getting a fruit-basket from me.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He was probably watching the TdF too

Are you one of these anoying editors who keeps on calling his journo’s “What takes you so long, I want to go home”.
God I hated these editors.

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just love that comment.

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

why this fixation with Cav?

Why not discuss Oss, or Greipel, or Roy, or Dumoulin or…. they’ve never sent over half the field home yet & they aren’t going to start now.

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

And nor should they. I'm with you.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

PhilShmil...showpony ;)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

He certainly is. I was just joking, although i prefer Cav for green. I like his bad boy thing.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am hip to internet humor.

I engage in it as well. If Cav doesn’t earn his green, then so be it. I do like his sprinting though.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair GS didn't start about Cav

she’s simply reacting to other people picking on him

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cav, Greipel, Steegmans, Tombo, Phil

Whatever. If you have an OOT rule, then you have an OOT rule. Otherwise, don’t have an OOT rule. Simple really.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though it would be strange

to believe that the time limit calculation is perfect each and every time.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also,

the “20% or more outside => no cut” caveat is part of the time limit rules.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the part I object to!

You’d think that’d be clear by now ;)

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah no,

not as such. Like Lurkerson says, I only got the rules=rules vibe.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. So in your opinion, why shouldn't it?

because ‘rules are rules’ doesn’t make that case.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is a buffer.

For the error of human judgement, and a way for the race authorities to keep the guys they want in the race for a great race.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps in your interpretation.

Others see it as something necessary. The rule was made for one reason or another. Hard to say without asking the rulemakers as to why it is there.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

mmm, it's a limit.

Specifying the scope of circumstances within which the rule applies. It doesn’t say, this rule, it’s not a rule. It says, “this rule applies here, and not here.” That is, believe it or not, the same as saying “this is the rule.”

by Ed K on Jul 21, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

So people don't just mosey along as slow as they want.

They have the cut-off to make the slower ones hustle. But with the 20% rule + the ‘consider individual circumstances’ rule so that the math doesn’t get in the way of the overall aim- which is to prevent riders from being as slow as they want.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

There didn't used to be one

I suspect that it was partly to eliminate the amateur entrants who didn’t really belong (back in the era when they still existed) and partly to require sprinters to climb the hills hard. With no limit, they could come in two or three hours behind for no penalty.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is a fella on Movistar.

I have not officially been introduced to him though.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, sure

Keep making assumptions. Good on you.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

All joking aside.

What if the situation was reversed, and Rojas came in under the 20%, in the green jersey while Cavendish finished in the time limit. Would you be cursing this rule?

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

I have no allegiance to Rojas in any way

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

Now you must convince ASO and Christian Prudhomme to change the rule to your liking.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

+ next number (is it 3? 4? 5?)

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Oss or Greipel or Roy or Dumoulin

were out of time, lose them too.
If Tombo and Engels wouldn’t have made the time cut after Boonen’s crash, they would’ve been kicked out.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily
The Stewards’ Committee may exceptionally allow one or several particularly unlucky riders to qualify, after informing the race management. In this case the following factors will be taken into consideration:
• the average speed of the stage;
• the point at which the incident or accident occurred;
• the effort made by the rider or riders delayed by such incidents or accidents;
• the possible degree of impassability of the roads.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think 2 things factored into such a large group missing the cut

1. Andy had a great performance – is it the best interest of the tour to cut 50% of the riders because the winner had the ride of his life? Yes, it’s a bike race, but it’s also a business. I’d imagine you’d have some very disappointed partners if you did this

2. Stage probably should have been a 4 rather than 3 (purely my opinion) – in which they would have made the cut. I think the 20% rule is a reasonable exception to the rule to help w/ days like today.

As for the Tombo/Engels – yes, they probably would have been eliminated, but the jury still could have overridden the rule there too.

by WaterGirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think 2 things factored into such a large group missing the cut

I think one thing did: they knew they were safe.
Or do you genuinely think Tejay Van Garderen is as good/bad a climber as André Greipel?

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree they knew they weren't getting eliminated

I’m sure Tejay was back there to help Cav…(okay, I don’t really believe that)

I’m also not opposed to the riders banding together and giving the time cut a middle finger. Based on the time they missed it by, I wouldn’t say they took advantage of it either.

by WaterGirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact the cut was only just missed

Shows that those 80 riders weren’t giving the cut the proverbial finger, I think they were doing their damnedest to meet it.

by snickwell on Jul 21, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact the cut was only just missed

No it doesn’t. Not if you see who’s in it.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The decision to not boot the group is fine. What else were they supposed to do?

But the OOT rule as stands is silly. Either actually kick the whole group out or make being in the group hurt (lose of accumulated prize money for example)

As tgsgirl points out, when Tejay misses the time cut, riders aren’t giving a shit about the rule. And if no one gives a shit about the rule, why enforce it at all?

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I have a good one

Miss the time cut, ineligible for any prize money you earn the rest of the race

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't suggest praise

Only that he didn’t deserve extra punishment

by William H on Jul 21, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's stiff for one guy only

The rest of ‘em don’t give a fuck if they get docked 20 points

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, to be fair

it’s also stiff to the rest of the HTC team.

IMO, it’s totally fair for the rest (i.e. nothing)

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

+20

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

FOUR brilliant climbs today

Andy, of course, for the sort of wild attack that everyone was saying we’d never see again.

Cadel, for a masterful… counterattack sounds too aggressive for it, but counterdefence at least. Not only tearing chunks out of Andy’s lead in the final kilometres, but riding Bigs off his wheel. Seriously, when was the last time you saw multiple podium contenders dropped on a single climb, without an acceleration, just by riding them off a wheel?

Tommy, of course, for killing himself. He did well all the way up the climb, but the barely-able-to-ride-straight-but-still-going-for-it agony at the finish line was incredible.

But also: Rolland. What’s this guy doing with the Bigs? Everyone’s talking about how well Voeckler is doing, but Rolland’s doing almost as well on most of the climbs, and he doesn’t have the experience, reputation, or yellow jersey on his back that TV has.

by Wastrel on Jul 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Rolland is doing a huge ride this Tour.

And he’s Young Rider aged. Interesting to see what he can do down the road, though hopefully he doesnt’ get any weight of the nation pressure ;)

by Jen See on Jul 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's suffered through the weight of the nation pressure already

Hopefully Tommy can take some of it for a while. He can handle it, I feel :D

My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia

by Douglas Ansel on Jul 21, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Voeckler had said he would consider preparing for a GT next year.

He doesn’t have to, Rolland can do it, and Voeckler can go on attacking!

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's 33 seconds off the jersey

It really wouldn’t surprise me if he won it.

Does anyone know what his time trial is like, ie against Taaramae’s?

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Taaramäe was 9th in the Dauphine TT

Rolland 92nd. Almost 3 minutes between them.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

Maybe not so much winning the white jersey then.

Still an outstanding ride.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

right on

That’s a big gap to close for Rolland, for sure.

by Jen See on Jul 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rein's a solid TTist

Rolland is pretty bad. Would be a big surprise to see Rolland win the jersey but great ride

by Phil H. on Jul 21, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree. Especially re Cadel.

Coming into this Tour I thought his climbing was a bit suspect. But the way he shouldered the responsibility and (basically) singlehandedly kept Andy from riding away with the Tour was brilliant. So hope he’s got something left for the next two days.

My second place behind Contador is worth a lot--Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 21, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe I will watch the replay after all

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe? Did you fall down and crack your head open?

"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton

by sminer on Jul 21, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

They’ll probably be talking about this stage for a long time, platypus. I’m thinking of watching it on the replay this evening and I saw it this morning!

by KnittingGene on Jul 21, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

same here

except I’m not “thinking” about it, I’m planning on it

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was afraid I would be watching Cadel cracking on the climb

But now that you guys have encouraged me, I am not so afraid to watch it. Only have to feel sorry for Contador.

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)

by platypus on Jul 22, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do hope you enjoy watching.

The best part of re-watching for me was that I didn’t have to worry about crashes – much less tense this time. And as a Cadel fan, yeah, you should WANT to see it.

It would be hard for me, personally, to feel sorry for AC, due to just general lack of interest in him and my distrust of the steak story. But, during the replay, I was able to develop some appreciation for how hard it appeared he was trying even though he knew (as we understand from postrace interviews) that he didn’t have the legs. That’s impressive.

by KnittingGene on Jul 22, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa, not bad Thomas

26. THOMAS Geraint 117 SKY PROCYCLING 6h 15’ 27" + 07’ 31"

"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"

by ncrow on Jul 21, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Indeed

And he was pacing Uran as well. Could possibly have climbed faster.

by yarb on Jul 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love the way he's developing...

Last year they asked him about the Tour’s climbing. He said “I’m not very good at it”… he’s come on leaps and bounds… great all rounder abd potential classics man? J’espere…

by DickieC on Jul 21, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Current standings with hypothetical TT results

Using DZ as a reference, he put 45" in 20 km on Evans in Romandie and 2’15 on Andy Schleck in Solvang over 23 km.
Also TV was only 2’12 behind Evans over the same 42.5 km TT as in the Tour.
So reasonably, we could imagine TV being at least even with Andy on paper in the TT. My point is both Evans and the Schlecks might still want to drop him for good tomorrow… What do you guys think>?

by FrenchKheldar on Jul 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I think that TV is no longer a factor either team will be ignoring.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

But AS was using California for training

You can’t use California results to predict Andy’s time for the ITT on Saturday.

Still, I agree that Voeckler might keep the yellow jersey after the ITT if he doesn’t concede more time on Friday.

MJB

by MJB on Jul 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Schleck ITT

The funny think about Schleck’s ITT reputation, is that we don’t have that many meaningful data points with which to work. As has been discussed lately, he really only races one race per year, and he doesn’t compete in other stage races.

His record in short ITT/prologues is brutal, but Schleck seems like a guy who is short on fast twitch muscle. How he performs in a 7.8km course doesn’t seem especially predictive.

He’s only really had to do two long ITTs in his entire career. Both came near the end of the tour. In 2009, he lost 1:45 to Contador, who did the ITT of his life (motorbike probably gave AC a bit of a tow on that one). The more meaningful data points are that he lost 1:42 to Cancellara, and 31 seconds to Evans. IMO, this was a typical ITT by Cadel’s standards, as he lost 30 seconds to the likes of Millar and Wiggins. Sounds about right. Evans had a bad Tour that year, but it seems like he pulled himself together in time for a decent ITT.

Last year, Schleck lost 0:39 to Contador. It was a weird ITT given the wind, but I would have expected that to work against Schleck.

I would put my money on Andy if he gets a 57 second head start on Evans in Grenoble. Except none of this factors in Voeckler, whose ITT prowess is an utter mystery at this point. Has he ever ridden a meaningful ITT in his life? I guess the Dauphine would be the best predictor, but he lost ~ 2 minutes to Evans there. I think Schleck is the favorite if the standings stay as they are (of course they won’t).

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice work

You are right about the competing element – you have to compare TT where they were really motivated and that is almost impossible. Most importantly Cadel wants to be in yellow so he knows what time to ride – really major advantage to be last when the TT is very close. So there will be a lot of fight for that spot tomorrow.

Re TV – i have been predicting he will be dropped and is cooked for four stages now – I am bound to be right tomorrow.

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

We don't just need evidence from meaningful TTs

We need to factor in how tired the legs are. Big difference between riding the TT course a few days into the Dauphine and on the penultimate stage of the TdF after yesterday’s stage and whatever happens today. How many of the contenders are in a position to save themselves today?

by mbflyhigh on Jul 22, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just watched replay and Evans spent a lot of time getting put of the wind.

He rode much further back in the group than he has been doing all tour. He only really spent a lot of time out front in the last 9km, so I am pretty confident that the only contender in better shape than Evans at the moment, recovery wise, is Frank Schleck.

I think Frank will try to go tomorrow to get the dots, but Evans will cover him and back himself in the TT.

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)

by platypus on Jul 22, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Time for

A Stage 19 preview thread.

Let the armchair DSing begin!

by kiwi_dude on Jul 21, 2011 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Good insight - I think there was a bit of that going on today

Just holding on for dear life and hoping the guys ahead on the GC cracked first.

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)

by platypus on Jul 22, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's made monkeys out of us all

even most of his die-hard supporters are eating crow.

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks JJY

New tagline

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

That storyline would be legend

Andy takes 18 in the Alps
Frank follows with 19 on Huez

Even if the TT decides the yellow goes elsewhere, that is legend.

by paisley on Jul 22, 2011 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Frank's got a real shot today...and if he does it, he could actually secure a podium for himself.

(could knock Andy off it too – and I think that may mess with his head…but I am with you…would be a sight to see)

by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cadel has to stick with Dos Schlekies tomorrow, pure and simple.

Should be much easier now that Bert and SamSan have been killed off. If he does not get dropped tomorrow, he should be able to win with the TT.

"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay

by ELVISGOAT on Jul 21, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope so.

But he’s had bad TT’s at the end of Tours before. Having said that, I think he was hurt in those ones, and he’s had great form coming into them.

Hopefully he’ll recover well for the next two days. But I’ll still be hoping Andy has a TT like the Chicken did in his penultimate tour.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't imagine Andy can recover completely with out resorting to dire measures.

"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay

by ELVISGOAT on Jul 21, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

True. But Cadel will be fairly buggered too.

I was scared coming in to this stage because I was worried about the Schlecks and Contador dropping Cadel on the climb.

But he showed he was the strongest of any of the chasers today.

Which makes me have a wistful ‘if only Cadel had followed and therefore neutralised Andy’s initial attack’. Because I think he could have then kicked ass on the climb, maybe even with Andy, maybe lost a little time. And he could have conserved a lot of energy by not being in the headwind. And then Cadel really would have been in the box seat, as opposed to now, where it’s still really tight.

Hindsight is 2020 of course.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cadel looked very measured to me today.

I think he knew how much head he could give a Schlek and when he had to ride. He’s on the GT form of his life and Frandy Sr only took a few secondes form him after sitting on all day. I think he’s got to be feeling good.

"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay

by ELVISGOAT on Jul 21, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still frustrated about the chase on the relative flats.

There were worker bees for the bigs in that group, and Andy only had Monfort, and yet Leopard took two minutes extra on that section- the exact section the commentators were predicting they’d be pulled back. I feel like the bigs needed to send their guys to the front and tell them to hammer it until they could hammer no more.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

calculation

makes sense: bigs thinking “let him fry, we’lll get him back once we hit the real Galibier.”

Problem: AS still had 4 minutes at that point—and that gap was just demoralizing. So, chapeau to Evans for sucking it up and riding.

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

but why think 'let him fry'.

You’d think they’d want to chase him down as soon as hey could. Anyway, its been raced, and Andy came out on top. We just have to wait until tomorrow.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Getting a bunch of domestiques to push the pace on the flat

isn’t going to have any effect on how fried Schleck is going to be.

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus, if you get close to him before the climb

That’s going to be totally demoralising for Schleck. As it was, having 4.15 at one point must have given him mental wings.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though Monfort is a rather useful TTist

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

From CN

Cool, calm, calculated.

"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay

by ELVISGOAT on Jul 21, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh

Schleck cracked hard in that last km.

Evans isn’t as tired as Schleck, but he’s still drained. Voeckler looked like he was begging God for death in the last few km. Only Frank is relatively fresh. Other than that, it’s a level playing field for the weekend.

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Voeckler is awesome in yellow.

He is a fighter and he is just so lively on that podium at the end of the stages.

by DriftNasty on Jul 21, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I’m bringing up Landis 2006 more as a counter to keep in mind for what these guys look like tomorrow.

Schleck was clearly hurting the whole last 10k, and blew bad in the last 1.

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

if

Andy attacks on the Telegraphe and holds it up Alpe d’Huez tomorrow, I’m going to be suspicious

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

hehe me too

I think his legs will hurt badly in the first hour. He should do a good warm up.

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

You should have been suspicious of all of them years ago!

No more regrets

by LSRDiesel on Jul 21, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah

Evans is gonna be half dead. Voeckler could grenade at any momeny. Schleck is better at climbing than Evans, so if he gets the gap on him, it is just a case of one dead guy dropping another dead guy.

There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious, this performance is not one of them.

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except . . . check out Anker Sorensen's power file (upthread)

A TSS of 386 is ridiculously hard.

Andy Schleck had to have burnt more matches than did Evans.

Evans took two minutes back from Schleck in the last 10k of the Galibier.

So I’m not sure that I can conclude that Evans will climb the Alpe worse than Schleck this year.

by R Mc on Jul 21, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tend to agree with that.

I’d put Evans on equal time with Schleck, if not better on this climb. Assuming nothing wonky happens overnight or whatevs.

by Jen See on Jul 21, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I certainly found that ride 'surprising' perhaps even superhuman.

Andy pulled that breakaway group as much as Montfort did. Given the previous form Andy has showed, that ride was quite out of the blue.

Perhaps this tour has just been so fast and hard for the domestiques that almost no-one has anything left in the tank, so the guys with most left in the tank were in the break and the big group couldn’t pull it back.

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)

by platypus on Jul 22, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Frank, after riding in the back seat all day, should have the freshest legs. Maybe there’s a shcok in store, and he’s the guy who’s going to pick up 3 mins tomorrow. I expect Voeckler to finally, and heroically fall away. he’ll be in the deepest of deep massages as we type! Cadel will be having sweats about missing out again, wondering if he can hold a Frank attack, knowing he has never had the violent attack legs needed. Contador? Can’t say I care! He battled manfully, but every UCI official breathed a sigh of relief when it became apprent that he was gone! There’s worse news awaiting him in August.

No more regrets

by LSRDiesel on Jul 21, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crazy stage

I hated watching it from the time of Andy’s attack. Got freaked out that cuddles didn’t respond.

Considering Leopard had Andy’s attack as their big plan of the day, what do you suppose would have happened if Cadel and/or another big had responded. Keep attacking until they let him go?

Chapeau to Andy though. I had written him off this tour, and he proved me wrong. Still desperate for Cadel to win this year- it’s probably his last chance, and Andy will have many more opportunities in the future (he may even win a tour in August, if CAS do what I think they’ll do).

The next few days should be awesome.

by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Exactly.

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Jul 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Careful not to chew on all of that sand

from that gigantic bag of Schleck’s.

“I hate descents, I have a family at home, I think the Tour should cut out all descents, oh that’s okay you can let me up the road I’ll just lose 3 minutes on the upcoming descent…no really it’s okay, I’m completely harmless, I hate going downhill, remember?”

Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.

by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dang, hate the taste of kitty toilet in the morning!!! (sandbox)

Do not interfere in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

by 2thvet on Jul 21, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

WTF!? I was asleep for that part, apparently so were the big boys.

My second place behind Contador is worth a lot--Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 21, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

marcopinotti Marco Pinotti
.@maxmonfort MVP of the stage today

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:04 PM EDT reply actions  

They need a domestique of the stage award

Judged by a jury like the combativité.

Either Monfort or Rolland today, but Rolland damn near rode into white, so I give it to Monfort.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great idea actually.

My second place behind Contador is worth a lot--Michele Scarponi

by tgartner on Jul 21, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not bad for sponsors

Hard-working, unrecognised heroes: an image that plenty of sponsors would find attractive,

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The jersey could have a "blue collar"

Not sure how that term works outside the US, though.

And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher

by StickyMU on Jul 21, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carrera! Jeans collar, hmm.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the standard team jersey?

Like Sam San’s gold cuffs?

Would be cool.

HTC would have a bunch of these in the flat stages, while the GC teams would be winning them on the mountains.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Belgian cycling end of the year awards has that

Crystal Drop of Sweat, it’s called. Mario Aerts won it in 2010 and 2008, Stijn Vandebergh in 2009.

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It'll be tight this year

Monfort rocks, but Vanendert has done a lot of work too. I find it very hard to choose between them.

by broerie on Jul 21, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Cadel's going to win the Tour, maybe Friday's MVP domestique will be...

George Hincapie.

Hincapie conserved energy today. Didn’t help Cadel at the front. And the Alpe d’Huez climb is very long and at a relatively low gradient (about 5% IIRC). Well suited for Hincapie to set a hard pace for Cadel, if George has the legs.

MJB

by MJB on Jul 21, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, in that case...

Cadel, you’re on your own again, trying to cover every Schleck attack with 20 wheelsuckers right behind you.

MJB

by MJB on Jul 21, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Pereiro's take on the climbs tomorrow

In this article he said

[the Telegraph tomorrow] will be the most important climb at this Tour. It’s 30km long – if you go really hard into it with your team for the first 15 kms, there are still another 15 km for you to make the differences to the other riders.

So there is still a chance for the Hincapie et al to show their stuff by pulling that first 15 km and then handing over to Cadel to keep on hurting everyone and then bomb the descent. Going to be very interesting.

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

lost linky

<a href=here perhaps?“http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pereiro-predicts-galibier-as-decisive” >

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd go with that

"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne

by civetta on Jul 21, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa whoa whoa

I wake up this morning to find that A. Schleck has put together a ballsy attack from 60km out, Evans is pulling the chasers up the climb, Contador blows up, and Voeckler, a guy everyone wrote off days ago, is still in yellow.

Everything I’ve been taught to believe has been turned upside-down.

PS: Anyone have a screencap of TV crossing the line? The look on his face said so much.

YEAH BUDDAY!

by With Ferentz Like These... on Jul 21, 2011 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Voeckler

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thoe pics are so great.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

One more

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

The top one in the previous post is still better.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.

"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.

by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he hjas anything left for tomorrow, it will be amazing. In fact, if anybody other than Frank has anything left, it will be amazing.

No more regrets

by LSRDiesel on Jul 21, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

So...

Frank attack on Telegraphe?

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

that’s the one where he calls Prudhomme an assassin.

If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

CadelOfficial Cadel Evans
From where I was sitting-that looked like ‘real racing’ to me….bold effective move by a very very strong AS/Leopard. #compléments #TdF

by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Watching ITV highlights – gendarmes stopped several runners . +1

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 2:54 PM EDT reply actions  

You mean the guys who run alongside the riders?

If so that’s great, I hate seeing that, such a stupid way to endanger the riders and the race. I hold my breath evrytime I see it.

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY

by platypus on Jul 21, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prud'Homme

Quel plonqeur cet homme! The worst TDF big cheese in living memory.

No more regrets

by LSRDiesel on Jul 21, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm afraid to ask why

so I won’t :) but what broerie mentioned was a good action from him.

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

On Col du Soulor last year

on the LA in the break stage, the Borat guy got tackled hard by one of the gendarmes right across from me. The Irish guys next to me were besides themselves with joy over what they termed “a proper rugby tackle”.

Come to think of it, I think I heard somewhere that rugby is popular in that part of France…

by Le Comte on Jul 21, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

borat got his tackle tackled

+1

by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

breathalizers?

"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."

by ant1 on Jul 22, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

ITV highlights played out to

“The Climb” (actually the Joe McElderry version, not the Miley Cyrus)

Lyrics seemed appropriate:

There’s always gonna be another mountain
I’m always gonna wanna make a move
Always gonna be an uphill battle
Sometimes I’m gonna have to lose (shot of Contador breaking)

Ain’t about how fast I get there (grupetto)
Ain’t about what’s waiting on the other side
It’s the climb

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Thank you for making me google that song

I don’t need my ears anyway.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounded like Boyzone….erm…cough…apparently!

No more regrets

by LSRDiesel on Jul 21, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting tweet just in from Geraint Thomas

“Attention Norwegian ladies! We’re doing Eddie a favour, He needs date for our Team dinner in Paris. Interested?? Applicants send a twit pic!”

by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

SNM, 23, seeks S?F

Fit, successful Nordic guy seeks date for merriment, Parisian romance, and silence. Likes: cycling, Norway, not talking. Reptile management skills a plus, as I am often not home to feed my Iguana, Jacques Anquetil.

If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone besides me noticed how much

EBH looks like a young Sui Juris?

It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.

by bethie on Jul 21, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bravo. A GC rider attacking the race

from 50K out with 2 HCs to go takes huge balls/cajones. Very entertaining day. Apologies to AndyS. Now, if Cadel attacks tomorrow I owe him an apology too.

by phantom_51 on Jul 21, 2011 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Jeez

Matt Goss has just tweeted that they climbed 5/8 of Everest today.

And they climb the rest tomorrow.

by po8crg on Jul 21, 2011 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh bloody hell yes

"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.

by tedvdw on Jul 22, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just finished watching today's stage

Can’t stand Andy, but I commented in another thread that i thought he would have a huge ride. Did not imagine it would be that huge though. Chapeau to him, and I think he will win the tour, and I am ok with that after an attack like that. I think Cadel can gain 30 seconds on the final TT, and that’s about it, so I think he gets another second this year.

One thing that did stand out though is why didn’t Frank attack 3k from the top? If he didn’t have the legs, I understand. But it seems he was out on a Sunday stroll and could have launched an attack and got a minute on Cadel and the rest. If people followed, he could have shut it down and just followed. It seemed like a wasted opportunity to get Andy and Frank on the top two steps.

I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.

by PopUp Rolen on Jul 21, 2011 11:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Afraid he would drag Cadel up to Andy

I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)

by platypus on Jul 22, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

this, and possibly the attack was not his idea

It looked to me—totally without evidence—that F Schleck hesitated to attack Evans almost out of respect for Evans’s riding.

by R Mc on Jul 22, 2011 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

maybe respect - and maybe he thought he couldn't drop voekler or cadel.

Even riding on, they were matching Andy’s pace up the whole climb…which means these guys were going flat out…Amazing!

I look for Frank today on l’Alpe…
I wonder how Andy recovers…

by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wherever Andy ends up

I hope he appreciates that it’s largely due to Monfort. He towed him to the line on Tuesday, and rode his ass of for him again today. No way Schleck is still in contention without Monfort’s efforts.

"I'm sorry for all the people who worked to make the descent safe and the tifosi who went up there to watch the race but racing can't be allowed to become a circus. We're not clowns" Marco Pinotti

by jsallee00 on Jul 22, 2011 1:44 AM EDT reply actions  

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