Tour de France Stage 18: Andy Schleck Goes Big, Wins Stage, But Voeckler Still Leads
Andy Schleck won the 18th stage of the 2011 Tour de France with a brave show of force, launching an attack on the penultimate climb of the day, the Col d'Izoard, and systematically climbing past the remnants of the day's early breakaway. While his move was not quite enough to clinch the yellow jersey, Schleck now sits above all the other general classification contenders by at least 53 seconds.
Results
Stage Results
- Andy Schleck (Leopard Trek)
- Fränk Schleck (Leopard Trek) 2:07
- Cadel Evans (BMC Racing Team) 2:15
- Ivan Basso (Liguigas-Cannondale) 2:18
- Thomas Voeckler (Europcar) 2:21
General Classification
- Thomas Voeckler (Europcar)
- Andy Schleck (Leopard Trek) :15
- Fränk Schleck (Leopard Trek) 1:08
- Cadel Evans (BMC Racing Team) 1:12
- Damiano Cunego (Lampre-ISD) 3:46
- Ivan Basso (Liquigas-Cannondale) 3:46
- Alberto Contador (Saxo Bank) 4:44
- Samuel Sánchez (Euskaltel Euskadi) 5:20
- Tom Danielson (Garmin-Cervélo) 7:08
- Jean-Christophe Péraud (AG2R) 9:27
Frank Schleck and Cadel Evans finished second and third, as Schleck jumped around in the final meters. Evans did a massive ride on the Galibier to turn back the clock on Andy Schleck. Ivan Basso crossed the line fourth. Thomas Voeckler continued to defy expectations by holding on for 5th on the stage, only conceding time in the final 300m of the stage when the chase group splintered.
The biggest story of the day was the expected shake-up of the general classification, and the défaillance of Alberto Contador on the final climb of the day. Contador conceded 1:30 to Evans in the final three kilometers of the Galibier. Samuel Sánchez also had a rough day at the races and dropped down the classification. The race has narrowed now, as Fränk and Andy Schleck battle for time against the implacable Cadel Evans.
Tomorrow will be even more interesting now, as Andy surely will feel the effects of his time off the front today and Evans is likely to feel a sting in the legs after doing all the work in the chasing group in the last 10km. This should set up Frank Schleck beautifully to put time into all his rivals, who will be both tired and watching Andy.
After surviving the Col de l'Izoard with the bigs, Rein Taramae of Cofidis took over the lead in the White Jersey competition from Rigoberto Uran of Team Sky. Pierre Rolland now sits second at 33 seconds after he held on to the Evans group until near the final slopes of the col du Galibier.
Mark Cavendish retained the Green Jersey, but not without a bit of drama. The grupetto finished outside the time cut, but because the group numbered some eighty riders, the race jury applied the 20% rule and allowed them to continue the race. If 20% of the race field is outside the limit, they will not be time cut, according to the rules. The race jury did apply a 20 point penalty to the riders in the group. Cavendish now leads the points classification by 15 points over JJ Rojas.
Racing was hot, hot, hot in the valleys as the stage started. The first hour averaged 50km/hr, which if you need reminding is hella fast. After some furious racing, 13 riders got away with 3 more chasing on eventually. The 16 were composed of:
Roche (AG2R), Duque (COF), Tjallingii (RAB), Perez and Moreno (EUS), Irizar (TRS), Hondo (LAM), Deplace (SAU), Erviti (MOV), Brookwalter and Burghart (BMC), Devenyns (QST), Monfort and Posthuma (LEO), Iglinsky (AST), Navarduaskas (GAR), Hoogerland! (VAC), Silin (KAT), and Delage (FDJ).
FDJ nearly ruined their record of having a guy in every early breakaway, but Delage managed to pull himself across the gap with Burghart and another, saving the day for the exposure-hungry team. Delage has probably ridden close to 800km off the front of this race so far - talk about a hard way to earn a paycheck.
Climbing the Agnel, the break has over 7 minutes advantage but Andre Grivko (AST) and Phillipe Gilbert (OPL) launched an ambitious attack, hoping to close the gap. I don't think these guys could have chosen a more daunting task, for that is a LOT of real estate to cover. It's Belgium's national holiday, though, so perhaps that will give Gilbert wings. Really, it's surprising to see Jelle Vandendert not in the front group chasing mountain points. He would be set after today, if he isn't already. Plus, the chance to get another mountaintop win on your national holiday is hardly anything to be scoffed at. The two also got company from Leipheimer, DiGregario (AST), Koren (LIQ), Barredo (RAB), and Riblon (AG2R), but they're having a hard time getting a lot of separation, only pulling out 20 seconds after two kilometers of hard work. Stuart O'Grady is driving things on the front, dropping a lot of sprinters out of the back already. Over the top of the Agnel, Iglinsky out-sprints Devenyns for points on top of the climb, but I suspect he was more interested in the 5,000 euro prize for the first rider to cross the highest point in the tour. Not a bad payout for an hour of suffering, no?
In other news, Contador has been seen back at the race doctor's car already today. Speculation is he's complaining about his knee, even if there is little the race doctor can do for that, especially during the race. Whatever the reason, he's either sandbagging or showing his cards way earlier than he'll want to.
Onto the Izoard and Leopard Trek moved to the front to pick up the pace again, Andy Schleck sitting in third wheel. Then, with 60km to go, Andy attacks and quickly opens up a lead of close to two minutes at the summit! Not much reaction from the other favorites, though BMC, Euskatel, and Saxo start driving it at the bottom of the descent. Speaking of descending, Andy hooked up with Monfort at the top of the Izoard and actually increased his lead by 45 seconds on the descent. How about that, bet he won't be complaining about the descents today. Going under 25km to go and the gap is over 3 minutes and alternatingly holding steady or going out.
With 20km to go the gap is up to 3:40 between the two groups despite the work of sufferface Sorenson and 2 BMC riders with similarly painful facial expressions. Devenyns, Iglinski, and Silin were caught earlier by Schleck and Monfort and Devenyns are providing a lot of firepower to drive this group. Or, should we say D€v€nyns, as one commentator has quipped on twitter? Speaking of money, the guys over at NYVelocity are wondering if Euskatel has completely drained Contador's PayPal account after generously providing so much pacesetting. You really have to follow INRNG and NYVC on twitters this tour. En Fuego, these guys.
This is a really interesting situation on the road. There is a headwind coming down the Lauterant, but it's not eating into Andy's lead even after Monfort blows a gasket, promptly sending him backwards at an alarming rate. The group of favorites behind has workers on the front, but it's surprisingly their mountain goats like Navarro and CA Sorenson, which is not who you want to burn out so early. The favorites are all unwilling to work in the headwind for fear of being duped in the final 10km on the Galibier, especially by Frank Schleck. Really, Kim Anderson has finally taken a page out of Riis' book. This is what Contador needed to do, in my opinion, but missed the chance to. Watch as Evans gesticulates to everyone to work...
The turn onto the Galibier proper comes at 8km to go and Schleck dumps Iglinski almost immediately. There is nobody else ahead of him on the road, so he's looking good for a stage win no matter what. Evans attacks out of the chase group but gets chased down, then he has to do all the work as nobody else is willing to. To win the race, you have to ride. And also to risk losing it, as Andy and Cadel are both showing us. Voeckler is cannily playing on his non-favorite status to avoid doing the work to defend yellow. Canny, this dude.
At 6km to go Cadel has really started to eat into Andy's advantage, it's dropped 45 seconds now. The favorites group is also splintering, with Sanchez being the most notable rider caught out. Voeckler still looks comfortable on Evans' wheel and still has Rolland for company. Basso also has Smyzd, but those are the only workers left. Andy's style is less fluid than earlier, for sure. Can't say I blame the dude, though - he's been out front for 50+km already.
With 3km to go Andy is a full kilometer ahead of the chase group and the gap is stabilizing around 3:10-3:15. Evans not looking so fresh any more, and now Andy is on the steeper stuff where he has more of an advantage. Evans' grimace is a lot less nice to look at than Andy's.
2km to go for Andy, 3.5 for the chase. Contador pops! His run at this tour seems over, as he'll lose about 1:35 to the other contenders at the top. Also, Andy is chased by a Zombie, which injects a little urgency into his climbing.
Into the final steep stretch and Andy is dying a slow death but comes in solo and smiling. Brave ride by the dude, seriously. Then Frank comes in second after attacking into the final 300m, Evans leads the others home 2:15 down. Gaps to everyone, who came apart in the final few meters. Voeckler cracks in the final 300m, but he manages to hold onto yellow, just barely!
Top ten on the stage:
Full results here.
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Comments
@inrng said the grupetto should be OK
No idea whether Cav is in it though
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Cav is not in the grupetto
1:30 to the cutoff
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Correction, just a group
Cav is almost certainly OOT, but a lot of riders are
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
If Cav is still in the race, he's losing points today
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
If he's just penalized points and not disqualified from the Tour
He’ll still win green. The penalty is 25 points, and he had 35 on Rojas entering today.
But then he still has Paris
as long as he keeps up with a grupetto, he’ll be fine. It’s only if he gets dropped from the grupetto and they don’t let him back in.
He can drop another 20 points, and he still clinches green with a win in Paris
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If he trails by 5 going into Paris, a win would clinch
he’d gain at least 10 on Rojas.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
yup, but what if
- he flats before the sprintermediate
- crashes in the last km’s
- ….
he’s lost his safety margin today
You 100% sure of that?
Rojas only got dropped after the second climb today, together with Voigt. Hell, Voigt got dropped before him.
Freire won a stage which had the Tourmalet once…
Rojas for the break tomorrow!
So what?
If he loses another 20, he’ll be down 5. If he finishes first or second on the Champs, provided he’s not second and Rojas first (which is unlikely), he’ll still win it. Neither of them will make it to the midsprint tomorrow, and the midsprint on Sunday will likely only provide for a variance of a point or two. Unless you think Rojas will win on the Champs or otherwise finish better than Cavendish, it’s over and done for.
Or Cav crashes
Or misses his lead-out.
Or someone attacks on Champs (has been done before)
Or he OOTs completely tomorrow
Or…
It ain’t over til the Eifel tower sings
Or what if it snows and they cancel all the climbs and make it a flat stage
You can’t plan for things that unlikely to happen. It’s pretty much over.
What a race.
Fantastic ride by A Schleck. Chapeau.
I would give credit to Evans for taking charge up the last climb. It response came a bit
late, but it was pretty strong. Also Voeckler was magnificient defending the jersey.
I would still support any of those three as the winner at this point.
Nice post, Dansel.
Good screen caps…but this leopard attack one should be on top.
In loving memory of Dale Earnhardt - 4/29/51 - 2/18/01
except that it just happened this week
and hurt a lot of people. This isn’t some random pic.
Your mileage may vary.
Yeah
When I first posted link, I 1) though the guy was wearing a helmet (somehow that makes it funny, for me), and 2) didn’t realize the extent of previous carnage (literal carnage).
Similarly
Just saw the picture and thought it was appropriate, didn’t know any of the details behind it.
by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
even with a shotgun and helmet.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Almost every cycling pundit (me too)
proven wrong by Andy today.
Attack on 2nd to last climb, gained time on descent, and continued on.
On the highest TdF finish in history. Legendary win.
+1
by Willj on Jul 21, 2011 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We discussed this yesterday
I never saw Andy as the person executing the strategy.
Yes, I said if the Schleck Bros. wanted to 1 2 punch ...
… they had to do with one of them going on an early attack and the other marking the rivals.
I didn’t peg it as Andy necessarily being the one going on the early attack, though.
And risking his place on the podium to try to win the tour, its by no means sure that he’s won the tour, but he sure as hell has cemented his place on the podium.
Evans rode like a champ
But damn that was dice rolling by A. Schleck.
He did have two team-mates up the road ...
… but if, as some have suggested, he’s given up a little of the snap in his attacks as he’s improved his time trialing, waiting to try to shake Evans and Contador on the final slopes of today and tomorrow would by a dice roll as well.
And of course, the dice haven’t finished spinning yet ~ we have yet to see tomorrow who will recover best from the pain of today.
This is something I wished he'd do for a couple years....
Now that he finely did, whether he ends up as winning or loosing the final overall, today’s ride was a beautiful thing to see.
you weren't proven wrong
he finally took your advice and proved you were right all along.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Chapeau Schlecks
Great win with gruit effort and daring.
He just said “no gut,no glory.”
Precisely.
Now, 56 seconds does not strike me as enough to hold off Cadel in the TT.
He still needs another minute.
Let me add
Evans was mych smarter about this than me.
He rode precisely the way he was supposed to.
I was so afraid Cadel was going to get punked by everyone sitting in
Turns out he was just putting it to everyone. Shows you can’t tell where the riders are at when things are rolling, until they pop off of course.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Whole books of matches burnt today.
It looked to me like Andy blew up somewhere in the last 2k—how deep did he have to go?
I'd also suggest that Cuddles and TV made a huge effort on the Galibier
Some incredible pain-faces going on from both of them. I don’t think anyone had any more matches to burn today, I think tomorrow’s winner will be the one who can recover the best and is in best condition.
He's legs looked to be buckling in the last k.
I don’t know how he stood up in that last 100m or so.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Hunter Allen's analysis of CAS's power file from today's stage:q
TSS = 383???? OMFG that is incon-fucking-ceivably hard.
Which is why
Cadel is scratching his head trying to understand how the leaders were still gaining time.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
What if
Frank attacks tomorrow and Evans has to do all the pulling again, letting Andy cruise on his wheel, that might tire Cadel out enough so that a minute might be enough
Right now that's all Frank and Andy have to do...
double up on Cadel tomorrow. I hate to see it because I so want Cadel to win, but that’s bike racing.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
He must be.
And Frank put in a lot of pulls in the breakaway. He could be pretty worked too.
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by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Did I get that wrong?
I thought I saw Frank leading Andy in the breakaway earlier on. I was only ducking in and out at that point, so apologies if I got it wrong.
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by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He will never have to pay for his own beer in Luxembourg for as long as he lives
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Gerdemann and Fuglsang . . . otoh . . .
should be required to forfeit their shares of the prize money.
Yes
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
And, obviously, Fugls rocks the manscarf.
You don't quit the Tour because of a thick lip--Laurens ten Dam
And he has sculpted eyebrows and he's Andy's bestie. Still shouldn't be there.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
He's pretty, and i'm sure he's sweet, but he's still got a way to go.
Don’t laugh, but I’d offer Kloden whatever he asked in Euros if I was Nygaard. He’s not fussed about winning for himself and he’s a very reliable domestique…with TdF winners.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Don't rate Gerdeman very high, but Fuglsang's performance
is just very bad.
Second year in a row.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
agree. Should look himself in the mirror and ask
if GT’s are the right thing.
And I suspect that management need to stop listening to AS who wants him there.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
That was Monfort
Frank was in the peloton the whole day
by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Sitting in.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
what he said
Inaction is sometimes more strategic than action – its a bit unfair to be negative about it. Label it unexciting if you like but there is hardly anything wrong with it.
Why in the name of all that is holy
Would Frank do anything but sit in the peloton today? What’s he gonna do, chase down Andy?
Further proof
That I’m a moran.
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by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A favorite of all Royals fans that picture
Edgar knows best.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 21, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Too perfect
Did you guys plant him?
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you not aware of all internet memes?
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
they're all exhausted
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Is that sure?
There’s people who tonight will be moving from dreaming of the podium in Paris to planning how to achieve it … who would be spotting more time in the ITT to Frank than Cadel is. Seems like Cunego and and Basso sitting about 2’38" behind FS would need to take an attack by Frank Schleck seriously, if either has the legs to do so.
If Frank attacks tomorrow,
Cadel has to sit on his wheel, he doesn’t necessarily have to pull. He just has to make sure he doesn’t get put in front. Nice thing for him is that Contador and Basso are probably out of the picture. Most important is Contador. Basso could only wear Cadel out, not put him in difficulty with explosive acceleration.
I think once Cadel has a shower and a sleep he won’t be too unhappy with the situation.
Both Basso and Cunego now have one more mountain stage to try to ...
… ride into the podium in Paris. For Basso to take 15" from Cunego to pull level with him, 1’32" from Contador and 2’24" from S. Sanchez to pull ahead of them ~ seems a fairly good result from a day of not riding for it.
That was one of the strongest rides I have ever seen
I had begun to start to doubt young Mr. Schleck…quite pleased to be proved wrong. It’s still weird to think that we will finish a Grand Tour and not have Alberto Contador on the top step.
Or even on the podium, it seems.
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 21, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
As for Contador
Obviously, he is not all there.
To win this Tour, he would have need to catch every break and bluffed his way past the Schlecks.
Looks the the 5 of 6th strongest rider here.
I don't know if this occurred to anyone else
But this was a phenomenal bike race. Chapeaux to Andy and Cadel, and many thanks to Tommy Voeckler for yet another reminder of why I like him so much.
I’m no Andy fanboy, but I think a large number of PdC’s great and good should be lining up to eat some of the crow that he is no doubt dishing out right about now.
And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
To conclude: what a wonderful stage we just saw.
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by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think it's occurred to all of us
Personally, I’m stunned at how impressive it was.
Sorry if you missed the facetiousness.
Doesn’t always come across over the interwebs.
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by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I did
probably due to still being stunned by the stage.
Facetiousness aside
I’m with you.
Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
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by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
At least....
…I have a new tagline to go with my crow.
And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher
Haven't seen the Tour. Good effort of Evans
But do we really want to see a Tour winner who didn’t attack once.. Or just followed and didn’t get a gap on other riders?
Evans hasn't attacked?
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
We won't get one.
Andy, Cadel and Tommy have all attacked.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
An even better rider would have attacked up the Agnel
And stayed away for 20 minutes on the field.
Cadel had the guts to do what he had to do. Give people credit for what they did, not debit for what they couldn’t do.
so don't say cadel doesn't deserve
If you are not watching. He has done an excellent races and certainly deserves it.
"Andy Schleck is officially a whinny bitch" - Gizzardfanny
by perezbike on Jul 21, 2011 6:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
soooooo...
how ’bout that new signature?
by professorfate on Jul 21, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I've seen summaries..
But as I stated/asked. I think a Tourwinner shouldn’t be in a “I have a TT so I just think about losing at less time as I can” I hope he gets second.. On a second or less. That will be so nice
In that case
I assume you don’t want to see TT’s in the Tour, or at least you want them to be short. Though one 43k TT is not a lot compared to what they used to have. Actually, it seem to be the case that it’s the least amount of individual time trialing since the dinosaurs wandered on earth.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Fine if they do that.
I don’t like the specualting on them part. And they just shouldn’t be on the last day. LEt the mountains be decisive. So the 42km TT and after that the Gaulibier an Alpe d’Huez would be perfect. Altho logistic complicated because of the Alpe d’Huez Paris distance
they must not read what we say here
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
That plus leading the attack in the chasing group today up the whole climb.
Not a contador/schleck, dance away from the others- Cadel doesn’t really have that type of attack in him on huge mountains. But a relentless pace up the Galibier that rode off all but a few of the peloton despite their shelter from the headwind.
I think that was attacking riding.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I will never understand this
Why not just have 5 stages, all in the high mountains and give the winner of that the Yellow Jersey. Cadel rode to his strengths, attacked enough to win a stage, followed noone today, cracked Contador & SamSan, and pulled everyone else up the final climb.
I want to see a winner who is aggressive (not necessarily attacking), rides smart and shows heart. Cadel has done that this entire Tour. Andy did that today. That is what I want to watch. That is how I want to see someone win.
And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher
Because the length of the race adds other factors.
Otherwise you might as well watch i short 5 stage race.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
and frankly almost every stage has been fabulous this year (which isn’t usually the case)
GT’s are about lots of stories like:
Phil Gil …. awesome in 1st week but never going to win
+1
That's true, because a rider similar to Gilbert...
say, someone like Voeckler, would never be able to (win)
; )
Bunch of slack-jawed faggots around here. This stuff will make you a god damned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me - Jens! Voigt, Predator (1987)
It would appear my sarcasm was not caught?
Or perhaps I have missed the boat. I read Frinkings post as being, “I want to see a winner who can make Lance, Contador, Schleck attacks in the mountains”. I will never understand that attitude/choice.
And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher
uhg..hit post too soon
I like that Cadel is in the hunt (and TV as well) by using a different tactic. If people only want the high mountain attackers to win the overall, then you end up with a far more boring race. As Willj states above, nearly every stage has been fantastic this year. And that has generally not been the case in the last decade of racing.
And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher
These are the two main styles that win modern Tours
The devastating attack up mountains, and the power-climber/ITT guy.
Indurain is perhaps the epitome of the power-climber/ITT monster.
The Tour is at its best when both styles of riding are clashing against each other.
Maybe
they can all go off in the Dauphine and have that battle.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Do I hear...
“ASSASSINS!!”
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
with probably another points deduction tomorrow
the battle for green will be exciting at the ChampsElysées
It certainly makes a Rojas win more possible
Still doubt that Cav will lose it as Rojas hasn’t been anywhere near him in any of the recent bunch sprints
by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
especially if
Rojas can somehow get himself over the Galibier tomorrow to take out some sprint points. Yeah, unlikely, I know
What's the cause for the loss of points?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Came in after the cut off time.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
No worries. my typing is awful too.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I think an 87 rider group was big enough
88 over the time limit, but Richie Porte was ahead of the final grupetto and only missed the time limit by 37 seconds.
40 in Cav's grupetto, apparently
And yeah, of course that’s sizeable enough. Just saying, if he comes in OOT with just some HTC’s for company, he won’t be let back in.
what's up with porte?
wasn’t he supposed to be helping contador in the mountains?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Well you may ask. Perhaps the Giro's in his legs too?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Throwing him into the Giro in the last second was looney
He had built for his first TdF. Now they didn’t get any mileage out of Gustav Larsson in either Giro or Tour while Porte rode at 80% at the Giro and was wasted by the Tour. Saxo are paying for their uncharacteristically poor teamselections this year.
Was wondering about this:
at this point in the tour, why NOT kick ’em out?
It’s not like most of those guys would be on tv for the final time trial anyway . . .
What, and spoil the show in Paris?
Have to have sprinters aiming for the stage glory on the Champs Elysee.
Yeah, but
having 20 or so guys doing the circuits of the Champs Elysees would look ridiculous
It's what Desgrange would have wanted
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
That's 19 more guys than Desgrange would have wanted.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True, true
Still, we can dig some traps on the Champs, right?
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
A concealed pitfall in the tunnel.
20 riders go in, not quite as many come out the other side. Add a bit of mystery to the race!
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Why not?
Let’$ $ee…
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
pretty ugly
To have half peloton riding in the champs elysees.
Plus as most have already said it is more of a wrong categorization of the stage than people being totally uncapable of dealing with the parcours
"Andy Schleck is officially a whinny bitch" - Gizzardfanny
by perezbike on Jul 21, 2011 6:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And then I think someone is supposed to say -
Dude, this is our concern.
Super dope. Is that like EPO on steroids?
Coming in late with the group is an automatic penalty
but you get to stay in the race.
there’s really zero room for interpretation in the rules.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Phew, for a second I thought drama was talking to me
and I was going to get banned for joining the thread late!
so what would frank say
About Andy attacking while Contador wasn’t feeling good? Is Andy being nervous or something? Kidding.
Good ride by AS, but I’ve already been disappointed by the way he raced in this year’s Tour. No pulls during the TTT, no clobbering Bert earlier, and then complaints about descents. I don’t know. I guess I expected more from him, and an attack and a win on a mountain stage didn’t really undo previous stages. Voeckler’s been putting everything on the line as an underdog. If anyone deserves to be on the top podium in Paris, it’d be him, not Andy.
Sorry, guys. I’m a minority voice in all this, I’m afraid. :(
I agree with you.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
me too
Except for the fact that I think cadel deserves it more.
Rode like a champ for 18 stages and counting.
Anything can happen on the next 2 stages but if he looses he will have nothing to regret.
The same for TV they will have to rip it from his shoulders if they want the yellow jersey.
But if Cadel looses I will really put my disapointmentface on Saturday.
"Andy Schleck is officially a whinny bitch" - Gizzardfanny
by perezbike on Jul 21, 2011 6:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He only deserves it more.
If he has the quickest time in Paris. No matter the race, the time is what matters.
I don't really see why he needed to attack any earlier.
They said all along they were waiting for the Alps and they have. I liked how Conta rode yesterday but you have to think he rode like that because he knew he would be hanging on at the very best today.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
I don't think that's true
I think Contador had to go hard days ago. He needed to make up a minute basically on every remaining stage to win, on a large group of guys.
I think today perhaps wasn’t as much of a physical crack as a mental one.
I’m sure he thought…. well, it’s over now.
Dunno about that
Don’t believe we’ve ever seen a mental crack from Contador
it’s his mental and physical strength that makes him great.
Believe he could’ve won it w/just Giro or just crashes but both was too much, physically.
Well, It's kind of a moot point because we'll never know
but at some point a rider is going to say “My opportunity is lost” and who knows when that point is…. even if it is in Paris, but they’ll say it at some point.
I still don’t think that means Contador “knew he would be hanging on at the very best” because THEN that means he thought that yesterday doesn’t it?
The fact was both he and Sanchez were trailing all race. They had to attack every day.
You don’t just make up 3 or 4 minutes in one stage against the best. Andy tried today, and he only got 2’30"
You can’t leave it until Alpe d’huez.
Don't understand your reply?
To me?
the quotes etc
Was saying only-
disagree w/your statement that Contador crack was mental not physical,
To both.
feel that the mental/physical is more related than we think.
I don’t think Contador was thinking he was in trouble going into the day, as Civetta claims, but I do think it’s possible he thought that going up the final climb.
Whether he’s thinking that because of a bum knee or not I dunno.
Let me ask you this:
When do you think, all Contador physical conditions involved, Bert would think “I don’t have it this year, I’m not going to overcome my deficits”
Before or during the stage?
If I wanna say that’s him mentally conceding defeat, and you wanna say that’s his body being unable to grasp victory, I don’t think there is a big difference in this case.
Huh?
Are you hypothetically arguing a point about a hypothetical thought that’s hypothetically going through a rider’s mind? Respectfully, this seems like an awful lot of projection.
"His grandma must have been a sight to see on the descents." - Jens
Injured knees don't get magically better
especially not if you have to stress them.
Contador’s been tired, and then injured, and bluffing this entire tour.
We’ve seen it every time he’s tried to attack and NOT kept the gap.
I think we don't have any idea about his knees
and can only go on what we see.
The last two stages his knees looked better to me, now they’re suddenly much worse?
I think there are a lot of factors we’ll never know. But with 5km remaining Bert was looking at a 4+ minute deficit to Andy Schleck with one mountain stage and a TT left. That JUST MIGHT BE when a guy shuts it down. Considering all he is fighting through.
Whatever reasons we want to site (giro, knee, deficit,) at some point the guy is going to be realistic about his chances.
First comments by Alberto after this stage:
“Yes my knee is swollen but I also just had bad legs.”
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
To be honest
I don’t really understand who is agreeing or disagreeing or what anymore. I really think we’re all saying the same thing, just using different words, and don’t know what each other is saying?
Or maybe that’s just me?
Well, being realistic, or shutting it down,
Not the same as cracking mentally.
maybe semantics to you, just think there’s a big difference.
Mental toughness is earned label for Contador, in my opinion at least.
Whatever combo of physical factors you choose doesn’t add up to mental kaboom.
FWIW
How do you know that?
I guess we define things differently.
I’m not saying Bert isn’t Mentally tough. he seems to be. Whatever that means.
Answer this: Do you not think there is a difference between fighting through pain when you’ve got a shot at winning and fighting through pain when you have no shot at winning?
mostly agree
Andy Schleck’s preparation—how ever you feel like construing that word—clearly was intended to maximize power AT threshold for long efforts, with the idea that this tour was going to be won with long efforts.
He’s had to concede time to folks with better 5 and 10 minute power profiles.
We’ll see how the rest plays out.
Maybe they did it like they dod at Liquigas for the '10 Giro:
Basso/Andy did enduance training, Nibali/Frank did acceleractions.
I can now forget the complaints about the descending
planned or not, it certainly made his attack prior to a descent more surprising. There no way he gains as much time as he did if the field suspects he’s going to gain time downhill.
No pulls in an ITT…eh…that sort of thing happens when you can’t do a short ITT to save your life AND you have Spartacus on your team. I’d say that was more of a team decision that Schleck deciding to wheelsuck all on his own.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And is stresses the fact that
cycling is a team sport. Which is the hardest thing to explain to people; having a stud TT’er on your team is worth every penny you pay him.
Agreed. I really love the team part.
It’s also not true that Andy took no pulls. He was in rotation. Stopped early-ish on, it’s true, but let’s be factual. Frank took no pulls – don’t know if that was planned (probably) or due to his troubles (hit in the head before the race and stung by a bee).
by KnittingGene on Jul 21, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with you kinda
gotta give credit where it is due for Andy, brilliant ride, but Leopard still annoys the hell out of me, Andy still doesn’t do anything before July but for one day and Cadel deserves one.
Man, if Cadel misses out this year, because he didn't follow Andy this one time.
I’m gonna be devastated. I could be okay with him losing it because he didn’t have the legs. But so far, he’s had the legs! In the mountains!
Still, exciting finish.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That when he finally wins a TdF
I think that’ll be a weight off his scrawny shoulders, and he can then focus on other races again.
Or maybe that’s just idle hope.
I think this too.
He is purely focused now on one goal only. If he achieves it, then maybe something else is next.
I think the "slash" as opposed to "/"
was what was confusing
Two deciders of the TdF GC now
1. How much of today’s efforts will come with a price tomorrow, and for who?
2. If Cadel hangs on within striking distance will it sap him for the TT just as it did in 2008?
Looks to me like everyone suffered.
Who has better recovery abilities?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
It comes down to who recovers well enough for Alpe d'Huez
and maybe even whether after Alpe d’Huez any of the top four have enough in their tank for the ITT.
Completely up in the air until we see what happens tomorrow.
MJB
I can't imagine DoctorNurse's Jedis (Jens!, Stuey and Fabs) allowing themselves to be bested.
What might make the difference is that Montfort and Posthuma will exhausted themselves today.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Wind.
Evans and A Schleck would have done the biggest effort today.
For sure
But look at who ended up in the wind anyway sitting on Cadel’s wheel. Frank was the only one who looked unthreatened, he should be tomorrow’s animator.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Vaughters
There was no “letting them have time” today. It was flat out behind….SmartOpard was just better. Period.
(twitter)
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Interesting take
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope someone did the atomic explosion for AC during the live thread.
If not here it is… The Giro prevails!
![]()
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Not th Giro.
Crashes.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
At one point, Contador was the only rider who had done the Giro who was in the top 35 overall
Don’t know if that’s still true…but it probably is. Probably even wider now.
But Contador is not behind because of the Giro.
He’s behind because of time losses and a knee injury, both due to crashes .
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, whatever.
He cracked today because I kept my focus.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
5 guys on his team raced the Giro.
Maybe they were fatigued and couldn’t keep him at the front so his time losses and accidents could ultimately be attributed to tired Giro legs. They didn’t know they were riding the Tour until early June.
Super dope. Is that like EPO on steroids?
I think this has something more to do with it than Contador himself riding the Giro.
The team is strikingly weak.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Navarro, Porte, CAS, Noval, Hernandez? Does sound strikingly weak at all. IMO.
yeah, that's what they have showed with their riding.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet it seems that at many times they have left Bert completely unprotected.
Saxo also has the Sorensens who are normally very strong. CAS was in evidence late today, as was Navarro, but the absence of the whole team at certain times has been noteworthy.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
One of Horner's interviews earlier in the race
he talked about how he thought Bert looked good, but never had anyone around him – got bumped around a lot in the first week or so. You wonder how many of the crashes could have been prevented had he been better protected.
Exactly. I'm a fan of many people on that team, but it's been a weak protection for Alberto.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Agreed.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
For sure. Embarrassing is the right word.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
+1
But Riis should now have time and cash to do some changes for next season.
Let's hope.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
The names are impressive
the performance, not so much.
Recovering from the Giro.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
saxo
is the only team where the support riders rode the giro also. Tiralongo giving up the other day spoke volumes for the effects of the giro on the domestiques
Possible argument
The Giro-Tour double is possible, but only provided that you can change all the other eight guys in your team from one GT to the next.
And no-one has that many good domestiques.
+ euskatel
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
Agree.
Like we have seen in the past. The Giro kills riders riders. Contador no diff.
Yeah, because it's happened to other riders
that must of course mean that that is why Contador is behind too.
We KNOW that the reason he lost time in the first weak was crashes. We KNOW that the crashes has given him a knee injury.
On the other we don’t know how the Giro has affected him.
But of course it’s more logic to put most value on the factor we know nothing about instead of the things that we know happened.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Do we know for sure the crashes gave him the bad knee?
I thought he only got held up on stage 1 and then the second crash wasn’t so bad…?
I think there is enough history to give us a very strong indication.
The fatigue from the Giro was probably the reason why Contador was often sitting in the wrong end of the peloton (along with a team of smaller support riders).
History of Contador riding the Giro and then the Tour afterwards?
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh my,
It’s “defend AC to the death”, he could have used you on the road in this Tour. No way in Hell was Contador fatigued by the Giro, not even if he says so later, don’t believe him. He is above fatigue.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
I'm not saying he's above fatigue.
But saying the Giro is the sole or even the primary reason he’s not winning the Tour is just as silly.
Because noone has even tried doing both recently.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Giro reduced his margin for error
And then more things went wrong than typical.
He could, IMO, have coped with the troubles (knee, time losses) without the Giro in his legs, and could have coped with the Grio if things hadn’t gone wrong.
I can understand this stance.
What I donøt understand is the insisting that the Giro is the primary factor for him not winning the tour.
I’m nt saying the Giro hasnøt had an effect, I’m saying that I don’t know if the Giro had an effect, but that I know the crashes had an effect.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that the tour is over, ..
… now we know that the Giro had an effect, since Contador said so:
"I didn’t have a smooth ride through this year’s Tour," Contador said. "I had some early setbacks and I was feeling fatigue from racing the Giro. I was never at my best during this Tour, but I decided to keep fighting to the end. I would have liked to have finished on the podium, but I came here to win and I leave with a good taste in my mouth."
Noone has tried winning the Giro & Tour in same year recently?
What about Menchov in ‘09? Yeah, he was a total non-factor in the Tour, but I think most of us agree that’s because he raced the Giro
Because Menchov had proven he could win teh Tour if he didnt race the Giro?
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
And Cadel and Basso in 2010
Menchov sat out the Giro in 2010 because of his experience in 09. Basso sat out the Giro this year because of his tour in 2010. Both were defending Giro champions at the time. Pretty good evidence of the fatigue factor I think.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY
So, now Cadel is nobody.
“2010, top 5 in Giro, 26th in TdF” “recently” enough for someone to take a serious crack at the Giro and then underperform at the TdF the same year?
Watch it mate ~ go around calling Cadel a nobody and there’s going to be a bit of biffo.
I haven't called anyone a nobody.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Since Cadel tried both last year ...
“Because noone has even tried doing both recently.” implies Cadel Evans = noone.
Plus he broke his elbow the stage he won the Yellow Jersey.
It that hadn’t happened I think he would have had a good shot at a podium.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course he broke his elbow because he had riden the Giro.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be silly to discount it as a factor.
Just as its silly to argue that having a fresher team and riding with protection in the first week would have done nothing to protect Contador from crashes this year.
I have actually agreed to that part the whole time.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I know you're being sarcastic, but maybe.
It takes energy to stay at the front in the best place to avoid crashes. Energy from the GC rider, and his team. In regards to Contador, we’ve seen him along a lot of the time, near the back, getting jostled and bumped around in a way Cadel and the Brothers Schleck haven’t.
If Contador had had his spanish Armada surrounding him, at the front, maybe he doesn’t get caught up behind a crash, and almost certainly he doesn’t get whacked by the Mullet Who Rides.
Cycling is all about a bunch of intangibles. We can almost never isolate one variable and examine its impact. But we do know that tiredness from a previous big effort can make a rider and team less likely to do all the little things that help keep them safe and in a good position. Alberto seems to have had a lot of problems this tour from those little things biting him. I think the Giro is a big reason for that. Mileage will vary.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I am quite sure the Saxo team has been struggling because theyøve riden both races.
I’m just finding it hard to see that Contador himself riding both races is the primary factor in putting him back.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
But it’s a long time since any one who we knew could win the Tour has tried racing both races.
Just because who hsn’t won the Tour previously don’t mange to win the Tour after winning the Giro, doesnøt make me think Contador definitely can’t. I don’t know and this year hasn’t convinced me otherwise when there’s been other things that have had a deciding effect too.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because no one in the current era has been able to even be competitive in both tours
sets a pretty good example . . .
No proven Tour winners have tried.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't KNOW why he cracked today
But it doesn’t seem likely, with the way he started riding the last couple of days, that his earlier crashes or knee had anything to do with his explosion today.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Unless, of course, that we are arguing that a spectator stepped out on the road
because Contador had won the Giro.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
He already has 3 Tour wins
I applaud him for doing something different and especially because it was my lovely Giro. Plus he won the Giro by 6 minutes…worth it…
This!
I respect for setting a new goal for himself.
So he didnøt succeed this year, but at least he tried and that’s the first step in reaching that goal. He’s probably learned a lot about what he must do to succeed that goal by trying.
I could imagine that he would go for the Tour-Vuelta double next year before trying the Giro and the Tour again.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he'll be riding next year.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Shouldn't be riding, that's for sure.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
I think he wants to see if he can win the Tour and one of the other GTs.
Securing the Tour before the Vuelta is less risky since the Tour is more attractive.
And yes, he has done the Giro-Vuelta double.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Plaid jersey are so bad.
See combination competition jersey.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what I was thinking- to look like the old tyre across the shoulders thing
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY
the way chava had his bike painted last year was pretty cool
one side yellow, the other green. could work with a jersey too.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
They could do one lin 4 quarters like a jockeys colours
Or like those wild formal shirts that men wear under their tuxedo jackets. Or maybe a chequerboard? C’mon, live a litle!
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)
"wild formal"? You lost me
(traditionalist)
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Maillot Arlequin

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 4:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually the formal shirt I was talking about is exactly like this - on the sleeves
The rest of the shirt is a very standard stiff front white formal shirt. So I guess I meant a harlequin pattern
I missed the Team Presentation Time Cut...
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 21, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
want and ability - two different things.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 21, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Great ride by Andy, proved me wrong
I still think the favorites shit the bed. If this tour has proven anything, it’s that you cannot assume another’s weakness. Not responding on Izoard was a mistake.
I think they thought they could reel Andy in, and that screwed them, cause everyone was flat out after that.
I still think Cadel has the best position, but the Schlecks now have the advantage.
Podium is looking pretty much down to 3-5 guys now.
I'd say 4 guys have a realistic podium chance now
Schlecks, Evans, TV
Assuming no changes in GC after tomorrow
you’re probably right. I’m kinda thinking the plan may be for both Schlecks to attack on Alpe d’Huez and have Frank pace Andy up
I think if Evans sits back.... he's making a mistake
The Schlecks know they need more time on him in the TT.
AND, Evans needs more time on them. If he lets Frank and Andy hold the time they have and everyone plays it passive. Andy might just be able to hang on in the TT.
I think Evans would fare better if the Schlecks are tired.
I think Evans should attack Andy as it may prevent Frank from being the aggressor.
Teams must be factored in.
Schleck got time cuz Poosthuma saved Monfort until Schleck needed Monfort.
What happens tomorrow?
Can BMC make it hard enough tomorrow to return the favor? Evans has to want yellow on top of the Alpe or be within 30 seconds. I don’t think he really wanted yellow today.
That, or he was biding his time again.
If he knows he’ll lose it all trying to ride with Andy for the stage, he played it smart.
But if he'd chased Andy's initial attack
Surely the other bigs would have followed. And then maybe Andy wouldn’t have attacked enough to get away again, and it would have been the showdown on Gallibier instead.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
I was giving half a chance to Banego… the combo of Basso and Cunego.
If Basso could gain 1 minute on Frank… which given this Tour wouldn’t surprise me at this point…. he could maybe be close….. but that’s VERY VERY VERY VERY unpossible.
It would surprise me
Frank was the master wheelsucker today. Did nada
Yeah, me too.... but surprises happen
Weren’t you surprised when Contador was dropped?
…. by a group containing Basso AND Cunego.
What, pray tell should he have done?
Bring everyone close to his brother, teammate and teamleader?
I didn't mean that as an insult to Frank
the only way this stage could have gone better for Frank (besides switching places with Andy) is if he had managed to secretly attach a chain to Evans bike and get towed up Galibier
Andy's much berated short attacks in the previous stage worked for him here.
Others didn’t expect a big long attack. They were surprised and they underestimated him.
I think I need to eat a little crow
I’m ridiculously happy for Andy – I didn’t think he had it in him. Good call by LT to pull in Moser & Merckx to offer some encouragement. (to be a fly on the wall for that convo) – But I still stand by my opinion that he’d be better served to race to win stage races throughout the year to help w/ prep.
Bert – chapeau – I like knowing that you left everything on the road. And that you’re human. There’s a reason you’ve won so much.
Still have no idea who will win.
Hats off to Rolland and Voeckler... amazing rides.
Cadel is a beast.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Yes...before the Tour they said the next great hope for French cycling was in one of the invited 'wildcard' teams
And I agree – it’s Pierre Rolland.
I am getting increasingly upset
about the prospect of Andy Shleck actually winning a Stage Race… and THE Stage Race ontop of that…
Fair play if he manages it. But there’s something odd about him. Perhaps I sense his Sith to Cadel’s recalcitrant Jedi…
He comes across as a "really really nice guy"
I think a lot of sports fans prefer their top-level athletes to be fiery, alpha-male competitors.
I love him, but I can see where he’s be a bit unsatisfying to certain fans.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Andy comes off as a "really really nice guy".
At all. It’s why I don’t like him.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think he's coming off more and more as a talented guy behaving like a spoiled brat
When he completely slammed Sastre after Carlos’ Tour win was the first wrong in my eye…
Should we slam YOU Andy for your Carlos-esque attack today? Saying the only reason you won was Frank and Maxime?
And this Tour, I think he’s embarrassed himself with his comments and tweets.
I think he's also embarrassed some of his stellar teammates.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I know...
It’s slighlty odd. I honestly have no rational basis for my dislike. It genuinely is nothing more than his Cherub-like pixie face… I just want to instinctively lash out. It probably says more about me than the amn himself… quelle dommage
To each their own
I have no idea what type of guy he is off the bike, on the bike he is too often whiny for my taste.
I feel like he has that teenage know everything thing happening
I just want someone like Basso or Evans to give him the kind of lesson that might make him a bit more respectful.
Of course, who knows how I got my impression and whethe fits any more valid then the old (and stupid) Cadel is a defensive whi y wheel sucker rubbish) probably isnt.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY
Complete results now in on official site
Garmin now have more than ten minutes lead in the team contest.
That may be the only one that is setlled today
Leads in everything else:
Yellow: 15"
Green 15 pts
Dots 2 pts
White 33"
this may be the best Tour in a long time
All 4 jersey competitions still not decided with only 3 stages to go
yeah, indeed, we complain about recent stuff, but some old races had massive leads – and no TV :)
+1
TV as in television
or TV as in Thomas Voeckler?
Think this might get them some more high profile invites next year
if they’re again not in the top 18?
Great ride by Garmin again today
3 guys in the top 12, Tommy D stays in the top 10 in the GC, solid hold on the team lead…
awesome day in the mountains again.
Unlucky that Cadel had nobody capable of support with him.
I was cursing TV and AC, but they were just hanging on.
I had a nice ride up Galibier, but chose to ride back on closed roads rather than freeze on the Col.
I cant understand what Basso was thinking. He just must not have the legs.
(I can hardly bear to think about this – I’m kind of glad I didn’t watch it.) At least the tactical situation is clearer tomorrow.
Given how he cracked more than Evans in the last 200m, I think this may be right.
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 21, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
I don’t think there was a single person that could have helped Cadel today. Other than Frank…
I really don’t like this 20% rule at all. If you’re out of time, you’re out of time. No point having a monster mountain stage, then giving 80 riders an escape route!
No more regrets
Yea, let's throw out 80 riders.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
If the riders knew they were actually going to get kicked out
No way that grupetto would have 80 riders. There were two guys – if that – in that grupetto who lost something today: Phil and Cav. And Phil is doubtful.
Well said Ma'am
Grupetto Schmupetto! I’m not a Cav hater, but this is ridiculous. Green is supposed to be the most consistent finisher. I think they’d better introduce a new Jersey for the sprinters, and leave green for the real conistent finisher.
No more regrets
"Green is supposed to be the most consistent finisher"
Not sure about that.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
green
is whatever ASo say it is
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Pretty much yes
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the problem is that the great unwashed masses who only watch the TdF (like me 12 months ago)
think the green is the sprinter’s jersey. So when it doesn’t go to the clearly best sprinter, everyone in the world has the kind of conspiracy discussion that we educated PdCers have about the combativity prize.
I think they better leave the green as sprinter and introduce a combo points jersey. then there would be sprint points, finishing points and mountain points. Maybe instead of doubling points for sprinter at flat finishes, award points in both jersey competitions.
There used to be a combination jersey
“The jersey was awarded to the cyclists that did best in all other classifications, the yellow jersey, green jersey and polka dot jersey. It was seen as the jersey for the all-round cyclist.” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_classification_in_the_Tour_de_France
And it was a damn horribly designed jersey.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
it's got polka dots
how bad can it be?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
“no way that grupetto would have 80 riders”
Reading Sammy Dumoulin I think I disagree:
ASO really need to have another look at their time cut calculations: there’s no logic! 5000m of climbing and 33 mins, that seems like nothing! Yesterday 43 mins.
In French on twitter.
We’re only having this conversation because a lot of people have got it in for Cav.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
I'm not citing him as a sprinter.
I’m citing him as a well-respected, sensible, unobjectionable bloke.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
I like it to - the organizers aren't going to categorize every stage correctly when it comes to setting time limits
since so many guys got caught out, and that they only missed the cut-off by a few minutes (and as someone pointed out – if this had be categorized as a 4, they would have made it) makes me believe this stage was categorized incorrectly, not that the riders weren’t trying.
If you take the time limit from Frank instead of Andy
then they only missed by 26 seconds. Missing out was more a sign of how great a ride Andy Schleck had than anything else.
You do kind of wonder how three hors category climbs
after one day in the Alps already ends up as a level 3 instead of 4.
I never understood why the OOT rule was based upon the winner’s time in the first place? Surely it makes more sense to use a percentage of the mean or median or the field? Then you eliminate the undeserving chaff but aren’t distorted by unusual “superhuman” efforts up front??
Well in one sense using the winner's time helps the autobus.
Because as soon as the winner finishes they know how long they have to finish. The radio can be telling them, you’ve got X minutes left. Whereas calculating the mean would have to be done after the stage.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
The more I think about it, the more awkward my suggestion seems…
yeah
there’s too much math in this Tour as it is
Have a standard speed
x km/h on flat, y km/h at various percentages of climb, z km/h for various percentages of descent.
That way, when they do 50 km/h for the first hour they can get ahead of the schedule and make the time easier for the grupetto.
Kom in m'n armen, broer(ie)
(Actually, I’d prefer her. No offence.)
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
No man, the 2009 dresses

(good excuse)
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
She can wear those if she doubles her climbs.
Cross that bridge 4 times everyday and you get the nice ’09 dresses, once, you get this years.
She is unbelievably gorgeous- and I'm a disinterested bystander
How is she not married to one of the riders by now?
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY
Shouldn't she be on the podium
for the white jersey?
perfection, in human form.
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
NOOOO!
Those things are an abomination. I’m sure Leviticus mentions it somewhere.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure
But someone decides on categories for climbs, which determines the KOM points. Never seen that argued over like this.
Elimination is dramatic
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Doing it off the median would have been amusing today
As the median rider was in the autobus, so they were zero seconds behind the median.
I am--in the first two weeks.
but I can also see the point that maybe the cut-offs need to be adjusted for the . . . uh . . . new normal.
The time limit is there to stop people taking the piss but still allowing the sprinters to survive
If you have 87 riders not being able to make it inside and with them actually racing rather than mucking about in a group too big to cut then all that shows is that you don’t have your calculations of time limits correct as you shouldn’t be catching that many people
by randomgerbil on Jul 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
or maybe
the rules are too tight on a stage with 3 HC climbs.
It was a "coefficient 3" stage
If it were a 4, they would have made it (12% instead of 9% for this speed). Tomorrow is a 4.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
This site has some knowlegeable badasses
We should make special shirts or wallets for ya’ll that say KBA or something. Like the dude in “Pulp Fiction” with the BMF on his wallet.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
We're gonna be cool.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
It is coefficient 3 based on distance
I’m saying the difficulty of the climbs should be a factor as well as distance.
I'm sure it all factors in
In the end, it’s a judgement call by the race jury when determining the race rules. There is no fixed formula where you put in distance and elevation, and the difficulty parameter rolls out.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Samuel Dumoulin doesn't sound too happy
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It was supposed to be after po8crg above but not really a reply
when he noted the leader gaps. But there are some quick clickers
Yes.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Dear Andy...
Well, We have to admit, we were a little surprised by that spectacular attack today- rankly, we did not think that you had it in you- You have proved that you DO have it in you and are to be congratulated for demonstrating this in such an outstanding attack today.
Chapeau.
You have now put the entire race on the back foot, and by attacking with panache, conviction, strength and determination, you are beautifully positioned to possibly win your first Tour de France- Again Chapeau…
Fantastic move and nice work to also squeeze in your fondest desire of a 1-2 finish. While TV is the most dogged competitor out there and you have to be wary of the Cadel counterattack, by finally being AGGRESSIVE now you can send Franck up the road tomorrow in defense of your position, ride wheels to the finish and then see what happens in the TT.
You are certainly not a Jedi yet- Master Cadel has not had his final say- But you have certainly re-gained our respect. Job well done.
Your friends…
The Jedi Council of super-Elite Professional Bike Racers
I think the reaction to Schleck shows that we've always wanted him to do well
I like that.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hooray for Andy
and for an unbelievable TdF.
And from the looks of things, many more for years to come.
Yes, Evans has a good chance in this one, but after that?
Contador-Schleck rivalry now very meaningful *and in the record books, they may be 2-2 on TdFs after August.
I hope you’re not implying that Cadel, for all his gritty determination, is a Jedi master? Obi Wan would never countenance that brave, but plodding Oz as a Jedi. Love the guy, but couldn’t buy an attack if you gave him a Billion!
No more regrets
On the contrary, Cadel's style was perfect for today
The grind-it-out-in-a-high-gear style was the only way to pull back as much time as he did.
Amazing he was able to do as much as he did considering he had no help and a train full of wheelsuckers behind him.
MJB
Not it!
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 21, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Gav, you surprise me
Mark, you can simply fuck off just like normal :-)
"Everybody relax, I'm here."
Me
Sorry. But, it can happen, right? How was I supposed to let every other editor know; 15 DMs, then wait? The dashboard should have a check-out/in feature or at least an indication who else is working on the article.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Ha ha, it is, really.
And no Ted, there’s no way to know, because the software thingy is not very smart. But you could dm me and ask ;)
Nah, that's just it,
if I have to DM you (and others) before editing, then I won’t bother at all. Which is fine by me.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Ricardovdvelde Ricardo vandervelde
“Outside the time limit, means? OUTSIDE of TIME! You didn’t make timecut GO HOME! Its unfair for al the other riders”
The rules are the rules
They should change the rules though.
I am not saying send the riders home, but a 20 point deduction is hardly stiff.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
ftr
rule been in the UCI book a while
Finishing deadline
2.6.032
The finishing deadline shall be set in the specific regulations for each race in accordance with the characteristics of the stage.
The commissaires panel may extend the finishing time limits after consultation with the organiser. In case riders out of the time limit are given a second chance by the president of the commissaires panel, they shall have confiscated the equivalent points awarded to the winner of this same stage to their individual general classification by points even if their points total in this classification becomes negative.
(text modified on 1.01.02; 1.01.09; 1.10.09; 1.07.10).
Pretty sure Greipel got done by it a fair while ago, cant remember the race though
Cav busted a journalist for it
In the green jersey post stage interview he told them about 20 points deduction, journalist said “Can you confirm? It’s news to us” to which he replied: “It’s in the rules. Shows how much you know about cycling.” (or thereabouts, my recollection)
Legend.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Don't know if it's a UCI rule, rather think it's a race-specific rule
but I haven’t looked in the UCI rulebook. Of course, it may still have been collectively introduced.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
I like how you lump "accident" in with a "fierce GC race"
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
The point is that circumstance meant the time cut was ridiculously tight
and that it’s if anything harsh on Cavendish that he loses any points for what was if anything was probably one of his better mountain performances
So we should praise him because he climbed a little bit better
than totally shit, but still not good enough?
Its not like Cav was the only one that missed the cut
There were some not-so-bad climbers missing the cut today, symbolic of just how hard Andy raced and not indicative of how shit nearly 80(?) riders can climb.
That's my point
If the riders knew that OOT actually meant OOT, no way would Cavendish and Greipel would finish with Tejay Van Garderen.
They gamed the system
They know they wouldn’t be cut if they all stuck together.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Cav even said that in the post stage interview.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Which means the system is faulty
Really, I’d stop discussing this if I had anything better to do. But I’m stuck here, all my pages nicely lay-outed and proof-read, except for three pieces by one correspondent, which haven’t come in yet.
He is so not getting a fruit-basket from me.
by tgsgirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He was probably watching the TdF too
Are you one of these anoying editors who keeps on calling his journo’s “What takes you so long, I want to go home”.
God I hated these editors.
I used to work for a newspaper a couple of years ago
I did court-news and faits-divers in Ghent for HLN (via this)
Who is it you work for?
If I knew the paper better I'd know what annexes it has
never bought one in my life though. I’ll buy one on saturday, see how you did.
I just love that comment.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
why this fixation with Cav?
Why not discuss Oss, or Greipel, or Roy, or Dumoulin or…. they’ve never sent over half the field home yet & they aren’t going to start now.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
And nor should they. I'm with you.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
PhilShmil...showpony ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
He certainly is. I was just joking, although i prefer Cav for green. I like his bad boy thing.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I am hip to internet humor.
I engage in it as well. If Cav doesn’t earn his green, then so be it. I do like his sprinting though.
Cav, Greipel, Steegmans, Tombo, Phil
Whatever. If you have an OOT rule, then you have an OOT rule. Otherwise, don’t have an OOT rule. Simple really.
Though it would be strange
to believe that the time limit calculation is perfect each and every time.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
There were a lot of good names in that final group.
Surely the Tour organizers can modify rules as they see fit.
We'll give Voeckler a 3' bonification
for panache
Also,
the “20% or more outside => no cut” caveat is part of the time limit rules.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
sure, but if one of your arguments is they should be cut bcos
‘rules are rules’. Well yes- including this one.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah no,
not as such. Like Lurkerson says, I only got the rules=rules vibe.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Exactly. So in your opinion, why shouldn't it?
because ‘rules are rules’ doesn’t make that case.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It is a buffer.
For the error of human judgement, and a way for the race authorities to keep the guys they want in the race for a great race.
Perhaps in your interpretation.
Others see it as something necessary. The rule was made for one reason or another. Hard to say without asking the rulemakers as to why it is there.
mmm, it's a limit.
Specifying the scope of circumstances within which the rule applies. It doesn’t say, this rule, it’s not a rule. It says, “this rule applies here, and not here.” That is, believe it or not, the same as saying “this is the rule.”
So people don't just mosey along as slow as they want.
They have the cut-off to make the slower ones hustle. But with the 20% rule + the ‘consider individual circumstances’ rule so that the math doesn’t get in the way of the overall aim- which is to prevent riders from being as slow as they want.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
There didn't used to be one
I suspect that it was partly to eliminate the amateur entrants who didn’t really belong (back in the era when they still existed) and partly to require sprinters to climb the hills hard. With no limit, they could come in two or three hours behind for no penalty.
And do you know where he is in the points classifications with relation to Phil?
Ahead of him. Yeah.
All joking aside.
What if the situation was reversed, and Rojas came in under the 20%, in the green jersey while Cavendish finished in the time limit. Would you be cursing this rule?
+ next number (is it 3? 4? 5?)
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
If Oss or Greipel or Roy or Dumoulin
were out of time, lose them too.
If Tombo and Engels wouldn’t have made the time cut after Boonen’s crash, they would’ve been kicked out.
Not necessarily
The Stewards’ Committee may exceptionally allow one or several particularly unlucky riders to qualify, after informing the race management. In this case the following factors will be taken into consideration:
• the average speed of the stage;
• the point at which the incident or accident occurred;
• the effort made by the rider or riders delayed by such incidents or accidents;
• the possible degree of impassability of the roads.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I think 2 things factored into such a large group missing the cut
1. Andy had a great performance – is it the best interest of the tour to cut 50% of the riders because the winner had the ride of his life? Yes, it’s a bike race, but it’s also a business. I’d imagine you’d have some very disappointed partners if you did this
2. Stage probably should have been a 4 rather than 3 (purely my opinion) – in which they would have made the cut. I think the 20% rule is a reasonable exception to the rule to help w/ days like today.
As for the Tombo/Engels – yes, they probably would have been eliminated, but the jury still could have overridden the rule there too.
I think 2 things factored into such a large group missing the cut
I think one thing did: they knew they were safe.
Or do you genuinely think Tejay Van Garderen is as good/bad a climber as André Greipel?
i agree they knew they weren't getting eliminated
I’m sure Tejay was back there to help Cav…(okay, I don’t really believe that)
I’m also not opposed to the riders banding together and giving the time cut a middle finger. Based on the time they missed it by, I wouldn’t say they took advantage of it either.
The fact the cut was only just missed
Shows that those 80 riders weren’t giving the cut the proverbial finger, I think they were doing their damnedest to meet it.
The decision to not boot the group is fine. What else were they supposed to do?
But the OOT rule as stands is silly. Either actually kick the whole group out or make being in the group hurt (lose of accumulated prize money for example)
As tgsgirl points out, when Tejay misses the time cut, riders aren’t giving a shit about the rule. And if no one gives a shit about the rule, why enforce it at all?
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Oh, I have a good one
Miss the time cut, ineligible for any prize money you earn the rest of the race
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
I didn't suggest praise
Only that he didn’t deserve extra punishment
Well, to be fair
it’s also stiff to the rest of the HTC team.
IMO, it’s totally fair for the rest (i.e. nothing)
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
+20
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
FOUR brilliant climbs today
Andy, of course, for the sort of wild attack that everyone was saying we’d never see again.
Cadel, for a masterful… counterattack sounds too aggressive for it, but counterdefence at least. Not only tearing chunks out of Andy’s lead in the final kilometres, but riding Bigs off his wheel. Seriously, when was the last time you saw multiple podium contenders dropped on a single climb, without an acceleration, just by riding them off a wheel?
Tommy, of course, for killing himself. He did well all the way up the climb, but the barely-able-to-ride-straight-but-still-going-for-it agony at the finish line was incredible.
But also: Rolland. What’s this guy doing with the Bigs? Everyone’s talking about how well Voeckler is doing, but Rolland’s doing almost as well on most of the climbs, and he doesn’t have the experience, reputation, or yellow jersey on his back that TV has.
Rolland is doing a huge ride this Tour.
And he’s Young Rider aged. Interesting to see what he can do down the road, though hopefully he doesnt’ get any weight of the nation pressure ;)
He's suffered through the weight of the nation pressure already
Hopefully Tommy can take some of it for a while. He can handle it, I feel :D
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 21, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Voeckler had said he would consider preparing for a GT next year.
He doesn’t have to, Rolland can do it, and Voeckler can go on attacking!
He's 33 seconds off the jersey
It really wouldn’t surprise me if he won it.
Does anyone know what his time trial is like, ie against Taaramae’s?
Taaramäe was 9th in the Dauphine TT
Rolland 92nd. Almost 3 minutes between them.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Rein's a solid TTist
Rolland is pretty bad. Would be a big surprise to see Rolland win the jersey but great ride
Agree. Especially re Cadel.
Coming into this Tour I thought his climbing was a bit suspect. But the way he shouldered the responsibility and (basically) singlehandedly kept Andy from riding away with the Tour was brilliant. So hope he’s got something left for the next two days.
My second place behind Contador is worth a lot--Michele Scarponi
Maybe I will watch the replay after all
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY
Maybe? Did you fall down and crack your head open?
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
+1
They’ll probably be talking about this stage for a long time, platypus. I’m thinking of watching it on the replay this evening and I saw it this morning!
by KnittingGene on Jul 21, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
same here
except I’m not “thinking” about it, I’m planning on it
I was afraid I would be watching Cadel cracking on the climb
But now that you guys have encouraged me, I am not so afraid to watch it. Only have to feel sorry for Contador.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)
I do hope you enjoy watching.
The best part of re-watching for me was that I didn’t have to worry about crashes – much less tense this time. And as a Cadel fan, yeah, you should WANT to see it.
It would be hard for me, personally, to feel sorry for AC, due to just general lack of interest in him and my distrust of the steak story. But, during the replay, I was able to develop some appreciation for how hard it appeared he was trying even though he knew (as we understand from postrace interviews) that he didn’t have the legs. That’s impressive.
by KnittingGene on Jul 22, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoa, not bad Thomas
26. THOMAS Geraint 117 SKY PROCYCLING 6h 15’ 27" + 07’ 31"
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
I love the way he's developing...
Last year they asked him about the Tour’s climbing. He said “I’m not very good at it”… he’s come on leaps and bounds… great all rounder abd potential classics man? J’espere…
Current standings with hypothetical TT results
Using DZ as a reference, he put 45" in 20 km on Evans in Romandie and 2’15 on Andy Schleck in Solvang over 23 km.
Also TV was only 2’12 behind Evans over the same 42.5 km TT as in the Tour.
So reasonably, we could imagine TV being at least even with Andy on paper in the TT. My point is both Evans and the Schlecks might still want to drop him for good tomorrow… What do you guys think>?
I think that TV is no longer a factor either team will be ignoring.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
But AS was using California for training
You can’t use California results to predict Andy’s time for the ITT on Saturday.
Still, I agree that Voeckler might keep the yellow jersey after the ITT if he doesn’t concede more time on Friday.
MJB
Schleck ITT
The funny think about Schleck’s ITT reputation, is that we don’t have that many meaningful data points with which to work. As has been discussed lately, he really only races one race per year, and he doesn’t compete in other stage races.
His record in short ITT/prologues is brutal, but Schleck seems like a guy who is short on fast twitch muscle. How he performs in a 7.8km course doesn’t seem especially predictive.
He’s only really had to do two long ITTs in his entire career. Both came near the end of the tour. In 2009, he lost 1:45 to Contador, who did the ITT of his life (motorbike probably gave AC a bit of a tow on that one). The more meaningful data points are that he lost 1:42 to Cancellara, and 31 seconds to Evans. IMO, this was a typical ITT by Cadel’s standards, as he lost 30 seconds to the likes of Millar and Wiggins. Sounds about right. Evans had a bad Tour that year, but it seems like he pulled himself together in time for a decent ITT.
Last year, Schleck lost 0:39 to Contador. It was a weird ITT given the wind, but I would have expected that to work against Schleck.
I would put my money on Andy if he gets a 57 second head start on Evans in Grenoble. Except none of this factors in Voeckler, whose ITT prowess is an utter mystery at this point. Has he ever ridden a meaningful ITT in his life? I guess the Dauphine would be the best predictor, but he lost ~ 2 minutes to Evans there. I think Schleck is the favorite if the standings stay as they are (of course they won’t).
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions
Nice work
You are right about the competing element – you have to compare TT where they were really motivated and that is almost impossible. Most importantly Cadel wants to be in yellow so he knows what time to ride – really major advantage to be last when the TT is very close. So there will be a lot of fight for that spot tomorrow.
Re TV – i have been predicting he will be dropped and is cooked for four stages now – I am bound to be right tomorrow.
We don't just need evidence from meaningful TTs
We need to factor in how tired the legs are. Big difference between riding the TT course a few days into the Dauphine and on the penultimate stage of the TdF after yesterday’s stage and whatever happens today. How many of the contenders are in a position to save themselves today?
I just watched replay and Evans spent a lot of time getting put of the wind.
He rode much further back in the group than he has been doing all tour. He only really spent a lot of time out front in the last 9km, so I am pretty confident that the only contender in better shape than Evans at the moment, recovery wise, is Frank Schleck.
I think Frank will try to go tomorrow to get the dots, but Evans will cover him and back himself in the TT.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)
Time for
A Stage 19 preview thread.
Let the armchair DSing begin!
I think that after todays exhausting stage a lot of guys will start thinking of conserving their GC place
instead of winning places.
Good insight - I think there was a bit of that going on today
Just holding on for dear life and hoping the guys ahead on the GC cracked first.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)
and, I am eating crow for lunch. I got schlecked...no two words about it.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He's made monkeys out of us all
even most of his die-hard supporters are eating crow.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Might be true tomorrow if Frank takes the alpe...
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 21, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That storyline would be legend
Andy takes 18 in the Alps
Frank follows with 19 on Huez
Even if the TT decides the yellow goes elsewhere, that is legend.
Frank's got a real shot today...and if he does it, he could actually secure a podium for himself.
(could knock Andy off it too – and I think that may mess with his head…but I am with you…would be a sight to see)
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Cadel has to stick with Dos Schlekies tomorrow, pure and simple.
Should be much easier now that Bert and SamSan have been killed off. If he does not get dropped tomorrow, he should be able to win with the TT.
"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay
I hope so.
But he’s had bad TT’s at the end of Tours before. Having said that, I think he was hurt in those ones, and he’s had great form coming into them.
Hopefully he’ll recover well for the next two days. But I’ll still be hoping Andy has a TT like the Chicken did in his penultimate tour.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't imagine Andy can recover completely with out resorting to dire measures.
"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay
by ELVISGOAT on Jul 21, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True. But Cadel will be fairly buggered too.
I was scared coming in to this stage because I was worried about the Schlecks and Contador dropping Cadel on the climb.
But he showed he was the strongest of any of the chasers today.
Which makes me have a wistful ‘if only Cadel had followed and therefore neutralised Andy’s initial attack’. Because I think he could have then kicked ass on the climb, maybe even with Andy, maybe lost a little time. And he could have conserved a lot of energy by not being in the headwind. And then Cadel really would have been in the box seat, as opposed to now, where it’s still really tight.
Hindsight is 2020 of course.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Cadel looked very measured to me today.
I think he knew how much head he could give a Schlek and when he had to ride. He’s on the GT form of his life and Frandy Sr only took a few secondes form him after sitting on all day. I think he’s got to be feeling good.
"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay
I'm still frustrated about the chase on the relative flats.
There were worker bees for the bigs in that group, and Andy only had Monfort, and yet Leopard took two minutes extra on that section- the exact section the commentators were predicting they’d be pulled back. I feel like the bigs needed to send their guys to the front and tell them to hammer it until they could hammer no more.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
calculation
makes sense: bigs thinking “let him fry, we’lll get him back once we hit the real Galibier.”
Problem: AS still had 4 minutes at that point—and that gap was just demoralizing. So, chapeau to Evans for sucking it up and riding.
but why think 'let him fry'.
You’d think they’d want to chase him down as soon as hey could. Anyway, its been raced, and Andy came out on top. We just have to wait until tomorrow.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Getting a bunch of domestiques to push the pace on the flat
isn’t going to have any effect on how fried Schleck is going to be.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, if you get close to him before the climb
That’s going to be totally demoralising for Schleck. As it was, having 4.15 at one point must have given him mental wings.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Though Monfort is a rather useful TTist
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
From CN
Cool, calm, calculated.
"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay
Meh
Schleck cracked hard in that last km.
Evans isn’t as tired as Schleck, but he’s still drained. Voeckler looked like he was begging God for death in the last few km. Only Frank is relatively fresh. Other than that, it’s a level playing field for the weekend.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Voeckler is awesome in yellow.
He is a fighter and he is just so lively on that podium at the end of the stages.
Agreed
I’m bringing up Landis 2006 more as a counter to keep in mind for what these guys look like tomorrow.
Schleck was clearly hurting the whole last 10k, and blew bad in the last 1.
if
Andy attacks on the Telegraphe and holds it up Alpe d’Huez tomorrow, I’m going to be suspicious
Nah
Evans is gonna be half dead. Voeckler could grenade at any momeny. Schleck is better at climbing than Evans, so if he gets the gap on him, it is just a case of one dead guy dropping another dead guy.
There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious, this performance is not one of them.
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Except . . . check out Anker Sorensen's power file (upthread)
A TSS of 386 is ridiculously hard.
Andy Schleck had to have burnt more matches than did Evans.
Evans took two minutes back from Schleck in the last 10k of the Galibier.
So I’m not sure that I can conclude that Evans will climb the Alpe worse than Schleck this year.
Tend to agree with that.
I’d put Evans on equal time with Schleck, if not better on this climb. Assuming nothing wonky happens overnight or whatevs.
I certainly found that ride 'surprising' perhaps even superhuman.
Andy pulled that breakaway group as much as Montfort did. Given the previous form Andy has showed, that ride was quite out of the blue.
Perhaps this tour has just been so fast and hard for the domestiques that almost no-one has anything left in the tank, so the guys with most left in the tank were in the break and the big group couldn’t pull it back.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)
+1
Frank, after riding in the back seat all day, should have the freshest legs. Maybe there’s a shcok in store, and he’s the guy who’s going to pick up 3 mins tomorrow. I expect Voeckler to finally, and heroically fall away. he’ll be in the deepest of deep massages as we type! Cadel will be having sweats about missing out again, wondering if he can hold a Frank attack, knowing he has never had the violent attack legs needed. Contador? Can’t say I care! He battled manfully, but every UCI official breathed a sigh of relief when it became apprent that he was gone! There’s worse news awaiting him in August.
No more regrets
Crazy stage
I hated watching it from the time of Andy’s attack. Got freaked out that cuddles didn’t respond.
Considering Leopard had Andy’s attack as their big plan of the day, what do you suppose would have happened if Cadel and/or another big had responded. Keep attacking until they let him go?
Chapeau to Andy though. I had written him off this tour, and he proved me wrong. Still desperate for Cadel to win this year- it’s probably his last chance, and Andy will have many more opportunities in the future (he may even win a tour in August, if CAS do what I think they’ll do).
The next few days should be awesome.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions
"Andy hooked up with Monfort at the top of the Izoard and actually increased his lead by 45 seconds on the descent"
If Andy wins by less than 45 seconds, can we ask if we really want descents decided the race?
Careful not to chew on all of that sand
from that gigantic bag of Schleck’s.
“I hate descents, I have a family at home, I think the Tour should cut out all descents, oh that’s okay you can let me up the road I’ll just lose 3 minutes on the upcoming descent…no really it’s okay, I’m completely harmless, I hate going downhill, remember?”
Well at least I have 1995, 2000, and 2003. Those were fun.
by dees ees en drama on Jul 21, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Dang, hate the taste of kitty toilet in the morning!!! (sandbox)
Do not interfere in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
WTF!? I was asleep for that part, apparently so were the big boys.
My second place behind Contador is worth a lot--Michele Scarponi
They need a domestique of the stage award
Judged by a jury like the combativité.
Either Monfort or Rolland today, but Rolland damn near rode into white, so I give it to Monfort.
Not bad for sponsors
Hard-working, unrecognised heroes: an image that plenty of sponsors would find attractive,
The jersey could have a "blue collar"
Not sure how that term works outside the US, though.
And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher
Carrera! Jeans collar, hmm.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
On the standard team jersey?
Like Sam San’s gold cuffs?
Would be cool.
HTC would have a bunch of these in the flat stages, while the GC teams would be winning them on the mountains.
Belgian cycling end of the year awards has that
Crystal Drop of Sweat, it’s called. Mario Aerts won it in 2010 and 2008, Stijn Vandebergh in 2009.
It'll be tight this year
Monfort rocks, but Vanendert has done a lot of work too. I find it very hard to choose between them.
Especially if he's not on Gilbert's team next year during the Ardennes
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
If Cadel's going to win the Tour, maybe Friday's MVP domestique will be...
George Hincapie.
Hincapie conserved energy today. Didn’t help Cadel at the front. And the Alpe d’Huez climb is very long and at a relatively low gradient (about 5% IIRC). Well suited for Hincapie to set a hard pace for Cadel, if George has the legs.
MJB
Well, in that case...
Cadel, you’re on your own again, trying to cover every Schleck attack with 20 wheelsuckers right behind you.
MJB
I like Pereiro's take on the climbs tomorrow
[the Telegraph tomorrow] will be the most important climb at this Tour. It’s 30km long – if you go really hard into it with your team for the first 15 kms, there are still another 15 km for you to make the differences to the other riders.
So there is still a chance for the Hincapie et al to show their stuff by pulling that first 15 km and then handing over to Cadel to keep on hurting everyone and then bomb the descent. Going to be very interesting.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)
lost linky
<a href=here perhaps?“http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pereiro-predicts-galibier-as-decisive” >
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked. (Me too JJY)
I'd go with that
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Whoa whoa whoa
I wake up this morning to find that A. Schleck has put together a ballsy attack from 60km out, Evans is pulling the chasers up the climb, Contador blows up, and Voeckler, a guy everyone wrote off days ago, is still in yellow.
Everything I’ve been taught to believe has been turned upside-down.
PS: Anyone have a screencap of TV crossing the line? The look on his face said so much.
YEAH BUDDAY!
by With Ferentz Like These... on Jul 21, 2011 2:17 PM EDT reply actions
Voeckler



"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
by tedvdw on Jul 21, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thoe pics are so great.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The top one in the previous post is still better.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi.
"If I couldn't play for the Colts, I would probably stop playing football." - Peyton Manning.
by gizzardfanny on Jul 21, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
that’s the one where he calls Prudhomme an assassin.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
perfect.
+ sideways 8
YEAH BUDDAY!
by With Ferentz Like These... on Jul 21, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
CadelOfficial Cadel Evans
From where I was sitting-that looked like ‘real racing’ to me….bold effective move by a very very strong AS/Leopard. #compléments #TdF
You mean the guys who run alongside the riders?
If so that’s great, I hate seeing that, such a stupid way to endanger the riders and the race. I hold my breath evrytime I see it.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY
I'm afraid to ask why
so I won’t :) but what broerie mentioned was a good action from him.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Plus, they block the view of the people in front of them.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Should give 'em big fines and bans, like the guys who run onto cricket or football games.
I am eating crow today, I got schlecked - no two words about it. JJY
On Col du Soulor last year
on the LA in the break stage, the Borat guy got tackled hard by one of the gendarmes right across from me. The Irish guys next to me were besides themselves with joy over what they termed “a proper rugby tackle”.
Come to think of it, I think I heard somewhere that rugby is popular in that part of France…
breathalizers?
"Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive. An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role."
ITV highlights played out to
“The Climb” (actually the Joe McElderry version, not the Miley Cyrus)
Lyrics seemed appropriate:
There’s always gonna be another mountain
I’m always gonna wanna make a move
Always gonna be an uphill battle
Sometimes I’m gonna have to lose (shot of Contador breaking)
Ain’t about how fast I get there (grupetto)
Ain’t about what’s waiting on the other side
It’s the climb
Thank you for making me google that song
I don’t need my ears anyway.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 21, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I considered putting that in my 'sounds of the peloton' fanshot.
It is a guilty pleasure earworm of mine.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Jul 21, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting tweet just in from Geraint Thomas
“Attention Norwegian ladies! We’re doing Eddie a favour, He needs date for our Team dinner in Paris. Interested?? Applicants send a twit pic!”
SNM, 23, seeks S?F
Fit, successful Nordic guy seeks date for merriment, Parisian romance, and silence. Likes: cycling, Norway, not talking. Reptile management skills a plus, as I am often not home to feed my Iguana, Jacques Anquetil.
If cobble delusions are wrong, who wants to be right? -JFS PGH
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 21, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone besides me noticed how much
EBH looks like a young Sui Juris?
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Bravo. A GC rider attacking the race
from 50K out with 2 HCs to go takes huge balls/cajones. Very entertaining day. Apologies to AndyS. Now, if Cadel attacks tomorrow I owe him an apology too.
Jeez
Matt Goss has just tweeted that they climbed 5/8 of Everest today.
And they climb the rest tomorrow.
After watching the stage again, I am glad no more Chalkbot messages are on the road.
Handwritten messages are much more enjoyable.
Oh bloody hell yes
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Just finished watching today's stage
Can’t stand Andy, but I commented in another thread that i thought he would have a huge ride. Did not imagine it would be that huge though. Chapeau to him, and I think he will win the tour, and I am ok with that after an attack like that. I think Cadel can gain 30 seconds on the final TT, and that’s about it, so I think he gets another second this year.
One thing that did stand out though is why didn’t Frank attack 3k from the top? If he didn’t have the legs, I understand. But it seems he was out on a Sunday stroll and could have launched an attack and got a minute on Cadel and the rest. If people followed, he could have shut it down and just followed. It seemed like a wasted opportunity to get Andy and Frank on the top two steps.
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
this, and possibly the attack was not his idea
It looked to me—totally without evidence—that F Schleck hesitated to attack Evans almost out of respect for Evans’s riding.
maybe respect - and maybe he thought he couldn't drop voekler or cadel.
Even riding on, they were matching Andy’s pace up the whole climb…which means these guys were going flat out…Amazing!
I look for Frank today on l’Alpe…
I wonder how Andy recovers…
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Wherever Andy ends up
I hope he appreciates that it’s largely due to Monfort. He towed him to the line on Tuesday, and rode his ass of for him again today. No way Schleck is still in contention without Monfort’s efforts.
"I'm sorry for all the people who worked to make the descent safe and the tifosi who went up there to watch the race but racing can't be allowed to become a circus. We're not clowns" Marco Pinotti

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