Tour de France Stage 19: Rolland takes biggest victory of his career as Contador animates stage
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 22, 2011 12:09 PM EDT
in Tour de France
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Pierre Rolland took what is easily the biggest victory of his career by winning solo atop the Alpe d'Huez today. The young French rider chased down a big move from Alberto Contador. Samuel Sánchez soon joined Rolland, and the two caught Contador inside the final kilometers. A late attack from Rolland gained him the stage victory. Sánchez finished second and secured the Mountains Jersey, Contador finished third. Rolland now also leads the young riders' classification.
Andy Schleck now leads the general classification, after the wheels at last came off for Thomas Voeckler. Fränk Schleck is second at :53, and Cadel Evans sits third at :57 seconds.
Results
Stage Results
- Pierre Rolland (Eurocar)
- Samuel Sánchez (Euskaltel-Euskadi) :14
- Alberto Contador (Saxo Bank) :23
- Peter Velits (HTC-Highroad) :57
- Cadel Evans (BMC Racing Team) :57
General Classification
- Andy Schleck (Leopard Trek)
- Fränk Schleck (Leopard Trek) :53
- Cadel Evans (BMC Racing Team) :57
- Thomas Voeckler (Europcar) 2:10
- Damiano Cunego (Lampre-ISD) 3:31
- Alberto Contador (Saxo Bank) 3:55
- Samuel Sánchez (Euskaltel Euskadi) 4:22
- Ivan Basso (Liquigas-Cannondale) 4:40
- Tom Danielson (Garmin-Cervélo) 7:11
- Pierre Rolland (Europcar) 8:57
Today's 109km stage was animated by a long-range attack from Alberto Contador, who attacked early with Andy Schleck on the first climb of the day - the Col du Télégraphe. While Contador's move was brought back at the base of the Alpe, he went again on the steep early slopes of the final climb and looked to have victory sewn up as a stalemate settled in among GC contenders behind him.
Rolland, who had been caught and passed by Contador on the lower slopes of the climb, reeled the Saxo Bank rider in with 2km to go as Contador faltered. Rolland was able to go over the top of Contador as his 90km of escapades began to haunt him. Samuel Sanchez came in second and Contador third.
In the main group of contenders, Cadel Evans tried several times to shake the Schleck brothers, particularly Andy, but he was unable to get the separation he desired. Thomas Voeckler, though, gave up the yellow jersey as he cracked once on the Galibier and again on the Alpe. Andy Schleck now leads the overall classification with brother Frank in second, Evans in third, and Voeckler in fourth.
Post-Race Interview with Cadel Evans (audio)
Courtesy BMC Racing Team
Pierre Rolland also took over the white jersey for the best young rider with his spectacular climb, though it will be hard for him to defend it against a superior time trial rider in Rein Taarame.
Tomorrow's stage is the last day of real racing in the tour and is a 42.5km time trial around Grenoble. This course was used in the Criterium du Dauphiné in June, where Tony Martin of HTC won the stage. Evans fared well in the TT, placing in the top 10, though many of his GC rivals were at the Tour of Switzerland instead, giving us little in the way of potential comparisons. With only 57 seconds separating Andy Schleck and Evans, the former will be hard-pressed to hold his advantage over the strong Australian TT rider.
Today's stage was a short one at only 109km, but in that distance they climbed the 1st category Col du Telegraphe, the HC Col du Galibier, and then finished atop the legendary Alpe d'Huez. Though a breakaway would stand little chance of staying away on such a short and action-packed stage, a number of riders were happy to give it a go. Among people in the break were Burghart (BMC), Griepel (OPL), Hoogerland (VAC), Perez Urtasaun (EUS), Buffaz (COF), Costa (MOV), Riblon (AG2R), Flecha (SKY), Duque (COF), Iglinsky (AST), Koren (LIQ), Pineau (QST), Izagirre (EUS), and Gutierrez (MOV). As you can guess, some of those names didn't last too long once things pointed uphill...
Climbing the lower slopes of the Telegraphe, where the gradient is steepest, Alberto Contador accelerated, getting only Andy Schleck for company. Thomas Voeckler chased alone, holding the gap to 30 seconds over the top. Gaps held on the minimal descent from the top of the Telegraphe to the foot of the Galibier, where Andy and Contador worked together to keep the gap open. Frank Schleck sat on Evans, playing the consummate teammate and brother. If things came back together on the Alpe, Frank would be nice and fresh, especially after not having to work at all yesterday.
The drop off the Galibier is the side they climbed yesterday, which is relatively steep and twisty - easy for gaps to open on. Contador is leading down most of the descent, and they are with Christophe Riblon and another survivor of the early break. On the climb up the Galibier, Voeckler cracked and went backwards past Evans et al. Sammy Sanchez bridges up on the twisty section of the descent and helps inject some pace to the efforts of Contador and Schleck.
The descent of the Galibier runs into the descent of the Col du Lauturet - the opposite side than was climbed yesterday - and this is a slower, more open drag downhill to the valley. Evans is bringing things back together, working with Sandy Casar and Tom Danielson. At the foot of the Alpe, even the Voeckler and Basso group are getting onto the tail end of the favorites. As with all good things, though, this does not last.
Pierre Roland and Ryder Hesjedal attacked immediately at the foot of the climb, hoping to get away for the stage win while the big names were still looking at each other. Cadel Evans attacked soon after, in the same place (roughly) that Sastre did two years ago. He's slowly brought back and Contador countered, going free and past Rolland and Hesjedal. A. Schleck and Evans are next of the contenders on the road, marking each other tightly. Evans will want to put Frank further behind to prevent attacks by him and also to put more time into Voeckler, but he has to watch out for Andy too. Behind, Sammy Sanchez was setting a false tempo, acting like a brother from another mother for Contador.
8km from the summit and Contador is flying solo, Rolland chasing valiantly behind. Sanchez and Peter Velits launch out of the main group and the Schlecks seem content to just set a quick tempo and stay with Cadel. Dangerous move by them, letting Contador and Sanchez gain so much time.
With 7km to go Contador has a minute in hand already. Dear Andy and Frank - remember what happened when Sastre did this? Contador likely will not win, but he may steal Frank's GC place.
With 3km to go, Contador is starting to look like someone with 90km and 2.5 big climbs of hard riding in his legs. Sanchez and Rolland catch back, and Rolland quickly dispatches the two with two successive accelerations. Behind, Cunego has attacked, though a move by Cadel marked by Andy Schleck quickly brings him back. Brother Frank is struggling behind.
Sanchez is working for Contador now, but there is no way they'll catch Rolland now. Sanchez will be content with the mountain points and Contador no doubt wants some more time to move up the GC, maybe aiming for a top 5 after tomorrow's time trial.
Evans attacks again, and once again Andy marks him without trouble. Really, though, it's confusing why he won't counter Cadel. I wouldn't feel good about my chances in the TT with only a minute's advantage. Though, when they come across the line Andy looks entirely spent. Not that I can blame him after two long-range attacks in the mountains in two days. Frank made it back to Cadel et al by the finish and retains his overall position. Of this group of contenders, Cadel looked freshest on the climb. Or, perhaps less shattered is a better turn of phrase.
Voeckler comes in over two minutes down, hurting but still looking pleased with his long run in the yellow jersey.
General Classification Top Ten:
Full results and GC standings here.
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Comments
I'll stick my neck out with this prediction
Andy loses 0:47 to Cadel tomorrow and Andy wins the Tour.
Final podium: Andy, Cadel, Frank.
MJB
I think it will be closer than that
Andy
Cadel 0:03
Frank 1:40
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
by PopUp Rolen on Jul 22, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
agree, almost
Cadel could have done with 15 more seconds. Yesterday’s exploits from AS could really have hurt him. For as much as Evans has put in a shift, they have been on steep inclines where the benefit of following is not as great. Oh it’s close!!!
If there was ever time
to use ALL CAPS and hyperbole in a headline, surely this was it. Regardless, great write-up and have really enjoyed your stage summaries through the Tour. Thanks!
And Cadel! The man may only weigh 46 kilos, but at least a third of it is heart. The other two thirds is probably balls.
-tehGrindCrusher
Thanks, glad to hear it!
I wanted to use all caps for the whole thing. But, I thought that may be kinda hard to read ;)
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 22, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
So looks like both schlecks should be able to end on the podium. Rolland first Frenchman to win on Alpe since hinault.
by yeehoo on Jul 22, 2011 12:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
not that Rolland knew that :-)
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Actually he did.
Post-race interview he said of course, he knows all about this race, studied all the winners.
"I love the guys that everyone else in the peloton hate to see hit the front." sminer
In *a* (an earlier?) post-race interview,
he was asked to name the previous French winner and couldn’t.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
I'm going against the grain here
But I don’t think Cuddles will take back nearly a minute on Andy, especially as Andy goes last and will know what targets he has to hit.
However, that nearly pales in comparison to just how friggin’ awesome today was. Unbelievable racing, unbelievable tour.
yeah, phenomenal Tour
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
by PopUp Rolen on Jul 22, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Hehe, you flatterer you
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 22, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
What a stage, What a Tour (thus far)
Samuel will look great in Polka Dots, and although he won’t finish on the podium for Top three…. he’ll be on the Podium for the dots! Awesome Samuel.
Tomorrow’s TT will be epic to say the least. How bad does Evans want it?
If Evans has anything left he will eat Andy for breakfast…. if not, Andy wins.
Cadel smashed the Grenoble TT during the Dauphine…. we’ll see.
For the record, I skipped class for this stage. So glad I did!
Though I slept in til halfway up the Galibier, figured that was a safe bet. FAIL! Woke up to text saying “AHHH JUST HOLD ON FOR DEAR LIFE ANDY AND YOU’VE WON THE TOUR!!!!”
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
I managed to get a stinking cold
which led to a fortuitous sicky. If only it would now pass in time for trail-riding planned for Sunday!
Tomorrow's TT
Grenoble TT
Dauphine – 42.5km (same course)
1. – Tony Martin (HTC)______55’27" (45.98kmph)
6. – Cadel Evans (BMC)_____+1’20" 56’47"
40.- Thomas Voeckler (Eur)+3’18"
42.- Samuel Sanchez (Eus)3’27"
135.-Ivan Basso (Liquigas)_6’16"
Tour de Suisse – 32km
1. – Fabian Cancellara (LT)_41’01" (46.957kmph)
39.- Damiano Cunego (Lam)+2’16"
46.- Andy Schleck (LT)______+2’32"
60.- Frank Schleck (LT)_______+3’06"
The Tour de Suisse course was very similar to the Grenoble course (up and down) and 10km shorter.
What thinks you people?
Other than that I'll refrain from commenting so as not to jinx anyone.
I thought that it would be possible for Evans to take that minute, but others seem to think otherwise. I’ll reserve judgemant
Between underscores => italics
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
How stressed will Andy be
Cadel can throw everything, if he crashes, he was only in second again anyway but Andy could lose everything. He wasn’t afraid to lose on Galibier – can he do that again?
I think Cadel is much more of a stresser
Than Andy is
This seems like a more mature, confident and less anxious Evans
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
I mean, its the race of truth, anxiety does you no good here
You race the course and see who has the legs.
Cadel has been in the leaders jersey before, ....AND WON A STAGE RACE or twol.
Super dope. Is that like EPO on steroids?
Let's assume the winning speed is 46kmph (Martin was likely going all out)
then it takes about 13’05" to do the extra 10km.
Grenoble course looks a little slower, but Andy likely wasn’t going absolutely full guns during the Suisse. So let’s say those two things equal out.
Andy’s time would be 43’17" + ~13’30" = 56’47"
Cadel’s was 56’47" exactly.
Can Cuddles make up 1 minute? Sheesh….. looks tough.
I think it will be, channeling my inner Phil, "Desperately close"
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
speaking of Phil/Paul
I’ve been pleasantly surprised by them in this year’s Tour. (Today’s LT car thingy notwithstanding.) Usually they annoy me. Maybe it’s because the Tour’s been so great, or maybe because Armstrong’s not there, but I’m liking them more than usual this year.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Both, but the latter is probably the crux.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I have noticed
That they can not correctly identify a single Ag2r rider. The closest they get is calling Nicolas Roche Stephen. For the rest I think they just pick a random name out of the media guide.
Yeah I heard Nick is getting pissed about it.
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
How about placings?
Look at who finished ahead of Evans in the Dauphinee TT: a few strong ITT specialists. I don’t believe Andy would be ahead of Vino in the top 15 of that stage. Possible with the stakes as they are I suppose.
Prologue, chain dropped, he chose incompatible chain rings, brilliant!
Super dope. Is that like EPO on steroids?
Well, I am certain Basso will not win.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
and since he's my VDS leader...I'm also falling off the limb and breaking an arm...
Him and Krispy Kreme…beginning my fall from the top 100…
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Leukemans missed the time cut (more than the other riders in the gruppetto)
33 minutes behind Rolland
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
All I can say is
Andy better not have his hair in any damn ponytail in the TT tomorrow.
by Jens on Jul 22, 2011 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I hear LT is just getting the moustache bars ready
screw all this newfangled aero crap
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha ha, seriously
This Tour so reminds me of those 80s Tours. I mean, I didn’t watch them in real time, but from the videos, they seemed to have a similar unpredictability.
Wow. Rec'd.
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 22, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Showed up to work an hour late...
and I’d do it again too.
At times, the producer didn’t know which camera to switch to: serious action was happening at 3 places at once.
Andy for the win. Cadel can't get that time back now
That is my prediction. If it was Frank maybe.
Anyone know what was wrong with Evans’s bike on first climb today?
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
Not horrible - see last year
Plus comes last, will be making full effort.
Maybe Andy's best TT, Alberto was not feeling well. That one race doesn't tell us enough.
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
Historically
in week 3 ITTs, Andy Schleck has a way of pulling mediocrity from the jaws of craptasticness.
"You better have a schleckond helping (of crow). You earned it."
--Paisley
by dees ees en drama on Jul 22, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He is crap at time trialling
Focus on easy first. If that's all you get, that ain't half bad - Caballo Blanco
He's not crap per se...
Not the best, but I think he’s worked hard on it over his career so far. Certainly not dreadful any means.
Most of the time he doesn't care to ride a good one
But now, it would serve him quite fantastically to do so, I’m thinking he might just do that.
In the Andy doc linked over in Fan Shots a few days back
he said with his new TT position he’s gone from 412 watts to 440, which he thought should give him an additional minute and a half over a long TT. Don’t know if that’s true, but perhaps we will see more of an improvement this year.
You don't quit the Tour because of a thick lip--Laurens ten Dam
I'd love to know
If you took a poll of the riders still in the race who they think is(a) the most deserving of the current top 5 for the overall and (b) who is most likely to actually win it.
You know, just for shits and giggles..
And yes I know it is not a popularity contest…
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
So three jerseys changed hands
And only one is officially settled.
Dots for Samuel Sanchez (OK, technically, he has to get within the delai on the ITT).
Green will go to Mark Cavendish – he’s 15 points clear of Rojas, so he’s OK as long as he doesn’t crash on the Champs Elysées.
And both yellow and white will be settled on the CLM tomorrow.
Yellow, I’m sure you’ve all seen, but white:
Rolland
Taaramae + 1’33"
Coppel +7’52"
Jeannesson +8’45"
The White jersey points to the coming French hegemony!
Three out of four are French. Pretty neat.
[Pigilito has a] lifetime stupid statement pass [on PdC] -- Yeehoo
Everyone is saying 57secs is too much in a 42k TT
Andy could easily lose that time and then some in that distance. Cadel still looking strong, Andy not so much.
Focus on easy first. If that's all you get, that ain't half bad - Caballo Blanco
yeah I think so too . . . though who can tell with this Tour
but one of only constants is that Evans is strong as a horse . . . I won’t be surprised if he pulls that time back
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh-huh.
Comes down to who has the legs on the day. Yeee, I wouldn’t want to make a call on this one, really. Schleck didn’t seem great today? But who really knows.
How much my soda pop and candy bar cost together!!!
Do not interfere in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
I have Cadel, Andy, Frank...so not sure who that everyone is...
Course, I am always wrong. Ask my wife.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Do people really put stock on "looks"?
Voeckler looked ready for the last rites 24 hours ago, and he held on manfully today. Contador looked completely gassed yesterday, and was awesome today.
Cadel might be stronger, but I don’t how anybody can know without completely guessing.
Edgar knows best.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 22, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
results
he’s been the most consistent rider, by some margin
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
compare SRM files for the last wee for the two riders.
that would provide good evidence to make an informed guess . . .
let me know when you get your hands on those :-)
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
no kidding, but I'd bet they start appearing for the faves pretty soon
shoot, you can estimate them based upon the widely available files for support riders . . .
Many thought today that Frank S. would be the freshest
But he couldnt even help Andy much today. The Schlecks need to get rid of the idea that both can be a winner, etc. and put all the eggs behind Andy S.
I think today they did but Andy didn't have enough
Focus on easy first. If that's all you get, that ain't half bad - Caballo Blanco
Never thought that after so many comments, I will be first to say Hurray! to Conta!
For trying!
"I love bike races warm up, warm down, cobbles mountains or flats."
perezbike
.
by holmovka on Jul 22, 2011 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Time limits are they right?
Looks like another deduction of points for a large group today.
My question is whether they are calculated correctly. Is the formula out dated? My understanding is that it hasn’t changed for a number of years and perhaps is skewed toward the more “enhanced” era of cycling?
The other half of the question is how to deal with the grupetto. From comments yesterday I learned that the grupetto isn’t told the limit until they cross the line. Should they be told earlier? Are the penalties fair?
Blame my wife!
Waiting until August 2011
Maybe worth asking this in a fanpost
Bet you’d get some good discussion.
Seems like the limits are too tight for this Tour, though, yeah.
aren't they pretty liberal about adjusting the limits
if not enough people make it in?
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on white paper lunch bag speeds?
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
There's a rule, yes
If 20% of the field is outside the limit, they stay in the race. But there is a penalty.
Some people out there in commentary land are suggesting that the average speed calculations – and so, the time cuts – are too fast for current racing. And by current racing, they mean the tighter doping controls that the Tour has relative to the 1990s.
ah
thx
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
responding to the second part of the question...about informing them of the cutoff time...
The group has to know…we were chatting about it…
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Cav said yesterday
That they had been told over radio that they’d all been eliminated because too late and so they didn’t try. But all the others they interviewed said they expected to be allowed to continue because the group was so big.
by yeehoo on Jul 22, 2011 1:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The limit depends on the winner's time
(click for larger)
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
What I meant to add is,
they can tell the bus the exact time limit at the moment the stage winner crosses the line.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
You put all that time into making a time cut graph
And half the peloton ignores the cutoff
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Related interesting point...
…if the peloton really is slowing down, then as Vaughters just tweeted, ASO’s calculations are really off in terms of what is and is not a ‘fast’ stage.
Inrng retweeted this set of figures for the Alpe climb, which seem to suggest real changes:
Rolland needs 41:52 @Alpe d’Huez, F. Schleck 40:46 – 2006, Landis 38:34 – 2006, Armstrong 37:36 – 2004, Ullrich 38:37 – 2004 #TdF
doesn't what came before alpe count in these time gaps?
are all stages alpe to alpe comparisons (question of doping aside)?
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they are alpe to alpe, which is why it's interesting.
And this stage, being short, should be faster if anything, right? I’m out of my depth and am more than a little interested in what people think of those numbers.
they did seem to be on the limit at the base this year, so that may have offset the shortness of the stage.
2004 was a TT, so it’s not exactly comparable.
2006 was a road stage, so comparable.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
See, the dangers of 140 charachter limits....
…lots of info gets left out.
yep - apples to oranges comparison
road stage is slower because of the miles that comes before the alpe…but who knows.
Shows that Rolland’s time was actually quite good.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
4 minutes to Armstrong
Is a huuge gap. Its 10% of Rollands time. To me there is a very significant difference and it means a cleaner sport?… And maybe that is why this Tour has been so exciting…
Contador gains status among the greats for me this year
I love it when riders attack knowing the odds are bad, but try it anyway. It is why I like Voeckler too. And why I liked the Dopers Vino and the Killer. They would attack and attack knowing most would fail, but why not? Try to win!
+1
Last year he seemed unbeatable, so I hated him.
Then there was the allegations so I buried him further.
But now, he looked tired, down and out and still attacked.
Chapeau for him from me.
I'm not going to start liking dopers any time soon.
& I still don’t think Conta should be in the Tour. & I am befuddled by his knee issues (as a knee sufferer myself). But… I admire how he’s ridden the last week or so.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Awesome stage
bummed Bert didn’t win but he once again shows me why I think he is awesome. Sammy…your buddy…you’re going to do him like that? Awww cmon man, but congrats on Polka dots. This Tour has been epic, tomorrow to crown it all off. And -1 to the grupetto buddying up
garmin has impressed me too...argyle's fast
And Bubble Boy…nice tour debut.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah he’s been great
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Needs the Yackety Sax soundtrack
to be fully appreciated
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
yeah, the boy (conta) done good today. i thought he might. was remembering the last time he lost so much time on a one day in a race.
2009 paris nice. the stage he bonked. then he went in the break the next day.
i’ll have to read the live race threads to catch up, since i finally got internet back since yesterday afternoon.
good luck tomorrow to evans. rather see him on the top step of the podium than either of the schlecks.
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Conta showed he is a champion today
He never gave up one bit. Needed about a minute more to have a chance to win in the TT
As an aside, if the lead is only a few second after tomorrow, will there be a race Sunday? One could easily lose a few seconds in a peloton sprint
They never race on the last Sunday
It’s just not cricket…
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
it's the sabbath
Only Cav wins on the Lord’s day…
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
and Vino retired again.
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
Both Cavendish and Rojas in grupetto
Will the committee let them back in? Haven’t heard yet, but I would be shocked if they were not alowed to continue. -20 points lets Gilbert get a bit closer to both.
ice
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
Committee doesn't let them back in, would have to kick them out
By the rules the guys are in. Seems like a little passive aggressive protest by these guys to come in just outside the limit. I think they could have all been 30s faster today. I think a lot of them think the times are too tight. It kind reminds me of back when Boonen was saying, if you want clean races then make it possible for clean riders to win them.
+1
I think a lot of them think the times are too tight. It kind reminds me of back when Boonen was saying, if you want clean races then make it possible for clean riders to win them.
Not sure they protested so much as just not knowing where they are at in relationship to the time limit.
Ice
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
Actually, the rule does NOT automatically allow the gruppetto to stay in if it consists of more than 20% of the peloton.
If the percentage of eliminated riders rises above 20% of starters in the stage, permitted finishing times may [my emphasis] be increased upon the decision of the Stewards’ Committee, with the agreement of the race management. It is understood that the riders who finish within the new permitted times will qualify for following stages, without a precedent being set for the rest of the race.
The committed has the option of throwing them out. I can’t see them doing so, unless the gruppetto stopped at a pub to watch the race finish over a couple of beers before continuing on to the end. but it is up to them and race management.
You don't quit the Tour because of a thick lip--Laurens ten Dam
Shout out to my main man - Nicholas Roche! I have faith that you will continue your valiant charge to VDS ZERO-dom:
Hang tough dude. Scoring a blank takes real commitment!
Roche may actually score points if he can hold off in the TT.
Clinging to 18th on GC right now. I’d actually like to see him lose time and preserve the blank in VDS. Krispy Kreme sounds like a good nickname for him…
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Might have to go see if the "HOT NOW" sign is on
and buy a few in honor of our donut Roche.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
What's the wind forecast for the time trial tomorrow?
Cross-winds favor Evans.
Why?
Cuz Evans rides “smaller” and “lower” on a tt-bike than does Schleck.
Why’s that matter? Drag coefficients: while people really concern themselves about FRONTAL area of a tt-bike/rider combination, the drag coefficient can nearly double in cross-winds.
Vaugthers is claiming the cuts are ridiculous on Twitter
The timetables a vestige of the naughty ’90s
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
80+ riders were 8 seconds too slow
Don’t think it implies very much
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It implies 80 riders could have easily made the time cut if they thought they had any chance of actually being thrown out of the race
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
oh, I thought 17...but either way, yeah, not a convincing argument that the calculations are out of whack.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
17, 8, same difference ;)
I didn’t count. Just really, really close at least. I’ll use the actual number rather than my guestimate from now on. 17!
Some of them, probably
Not all of them. And easily? You must be joshing me. More to the point, the idea is that the 90’s riders would have been nowhere near the time cut.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to agree 100% with JV here.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
I don't think they should kick 80 guys out of the tour, but i do think you should be eliminated from any jersey competitions
So Cav would have been pulled from Green Jersey and lost all of his points
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
by PopUp Rolen on Jul 22, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Leaving the sprinter's jersey to Cadel Evans :)
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
So Cadel Evans would win the Green
Because ALL of the major sprinters and Gilbert were out. Basically just junk the Green Jersey and kill the sprint stages you are saying.
But I think that's a function of the rule (or lack thereof)
cause they know that if they lump togther, they won’t be eliminated… as well, they’ll suffer the same points fate.
Why ride harder?
He didn't so that is no point. Cav could too I say
Prove me wrong … we are talking reality not could ofs. ALL the sprinters would be gone from the green jersey this year if the 20% rule wasn’t there or you kicked them out of competitions.
I think the rules are fine as is. the percentage rules are there cause the race guys make mistakes. They did this year. But it won’t affect the race wrongly because of that rule.
ok, you disagree... calm down.
it’s my point, so it is a point. if you disagree that’s fine. I obviously can’t prove anything regarding how much faster a rider could ride today, you’re building a strawman
See my above rebuttal.
I'm calm just "debating". Heh
Yeah I agree that the bus today deliberately came in just above the cut. I wonder why eh? I think it is a protest against bad time cut calculations based on enhanced pelotons. They I think could all have come in in the time today but deliberately kept back. Or a bunch of them did, anyway, I think.
no, sprinters can make the time cut. I'm sure some of them did
If you make GC riders ride every stage not to lose time, the sprinters should have to race every stage to make the time cut
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
by PopUp Rolen on Jul 22, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
duque?
maybe bozic? he’s still here, right?
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
duque made it today (19 minutes)
yesterday, not so much
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Boszic didn't, O'Grady did by a mile.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
we're talking about sprinters though...
(joke)
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, if Klodi can be a sprinter, anyone can.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Not sure any of them did today because they knew there were no real implications
If they would get kicked out of the green jersey comp, i’m sure many of them would have made the cut
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
Eddy Boss!
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
Not today
but yesterday
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Hang on, what difference would it make to the race to give the grupetto another ten minutes
I mean, really, nothing turns on it – why do we want to see them ride .2km/h faster?
by platypus on Jul 22, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'd like to see them race with a sense of urgency just like the GC guys.
I want to see the best overall finisher in green on Sunday, not someone who is gaming the system.
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
Are you serious?
Do you honestly believe that they’re not riding with a sense of urgency?
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If he was on Cav watch duty
Was he still lazy?
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So if they ignore the risk of the timecut they're stupid
and if they sacrifice a climber to try and get Cav within the timelimit they’re stupid? It almost seems as if the prejudice is that they’re stupid any which way?
No, no
If they ignore the risk of the timecut they’re smart; the timecut rules itself are stupid.
And HTC isn’t stupid in se for sending a good climber to watch over Cav; I just think it’s stupid that they think so little of Tejay that they think this is all he’s good for?
Am I making sense? I’m blaming Melltorp if I’m not.
Teejay is a first time TdF-rider who is pretty much wasted
He isn’t in any condition to be of use at the front of the race. This would be one way he could still be of use to the team (if he was indeed on Cav-watch.)
yep
Tejay lasted little more than a km more than Cav (who lasted longer than some) and Tejay looked worse than Cav in the moment. He didn’t look like he was sitting up at that, he fell off the back. Cant remeber exactly by think Thor was either one before or one after, and there was still 20 minutes of the Agnel to go. What happened to back of the peleton on the slopes of the Agnel was almost ugly to watch at times, (but grimly fascinating)
Think the OOT time rules about right myself.
If I’d planned a trip to the race in the next couple of days, or was having it go through my area and close the roads and cause disruption etc I would be more than pleased I got to see Cancellara TT and Cav sprint. Neither need to win, but they would one of the things I would hoping to see when the race went past on such a stage.
To find out a rump of a peleton was turning up would be a disappointment.
The 20% allowance is a trigger for review, not a rule, and an ASO thing it seems. There was a similar, more generous, 15% trigger at last years Vuelta. Giro this year had really tight limits, no such % trigger and an absolute maximum of time limit of winner +25% on any stage.
Yet all the races keep the right, for the jury, to keep the whole show on the road though, and quite rightly. The provisions have been there for years, rarely invoked.
All I saw yestertday was a large group of riders finishing pretty knackered, and HD by miles. Then most of the same having the decency to try to get inside the limit today, another day where it blew up in their face practically from flagfall, and fail but not much. That they ride on bothers me not. Agree with the race jury this time.
Cav lasted quite impressively long today.
All sorts of rouleur – and indeed “climber” types – went out the back before he did.
Agree very much about the race being diminished if so many riders get booted out. I would feel very short-changed if I pitched up in Paris & there weren’t any decent sprinters left.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Because you don't want to have riders who lose one hour on one day.. To rest the legs..
And the other day attack. Unfair competition
& was, say, Jens! yesterday?
He was gaming the system for Cav’s benefit too, was he?
But I said my piece yesterday, I’m not going through all that again.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Again, OK, what's 10 minutes?
But, what about another 20 mins? What about another hour? At what point does it become ridiculous? And at what point do you change the characteristics necessary to considered a top professional?
It does matter. Teams make decisions on who to bring to races based on who can get over the mountains. Farnese-Vini did not bring Guardini to the Giro because the team thought he had no chance of making it over the mountains. If Guardini could finish the mountains an hour down on the leader, Guardini could probably have raced the Giro.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Tejay was OOT both times
Slacker.
Lots of names there who wouldn’t have been there if being OOT actually meant something.
Who is the best placed on GC with two OOT penalties?
I think Gilbert may be the best placed with one OOT (36th).
I want to congratulate the eleven riders who have -40 points on the Green Jersey.
Four of them are in Saxo Bank
-40 no big deal
The majority of the riders OOT probably don’t care one bit that they were penalized 20 green jersey points. Only about 3 riders cared that they lost points.
Blame my wife!
Waiting until August 2011
Gilbert has been out for a few days
Seeing the ease with which he came in today (16min, chatting and laughing with Vanendert), I’m fairly sure he could’ve come in in time yesterday had he wanted to. Just didn’t care about losing 20 points, green is gone for him anyway.
Yes, but to get to -40
You also have to never finish in the first 20 (25?) of a stage. Impressive that there are eleven who never actually scored a positive point.
Four at -39, two more -38, two more -37
+1
AND….. they should all have to wear black jerseys…. especially when it’s really sunny.
Ok, not that far. But I think they should lose out on jersey comps for sure.
Is the alternative NOT having a cut-off? Or just recalculating?
If no cut-off, then it’s silly. If re-calculating… someone will miss out.
Or in visual form
1 Mark Cavendish (GBr) HTC-Highroad 280 pts
2 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil (Spa) Movistar Team 265
3 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 230
4 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Team Garmin-Cervelo 195
5 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 191
6 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Sky Procycling 153
7 André Greipel (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto 130
8 Tyler Farrar (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 101
9 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 96
10 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 94
11 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard 90
12 Jérémy Roy (Fra) FDJ 87
13 Mickaël Delage (Fra) FDJ 82
14 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Team Europcar 78
15 Andy Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 74
Awesome...
…Frank Schleck is a sprinter. I knew it.
Still not much of an incentive to many
And I stand by my assertion that if the OOT would be enforced regardless of how big the grupetto was, the grupetto would never be this big.
You are asking for doping to come back
That is the Boonen argument. They will jhave to dope to win and finish.
Or just make the DQ times longer and I might agree.
No, that isn't true...Hushovd and others could probably go 30 seconds faster but since he doesn't have to, why should he?
They are just using the system to their advantage
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't know that though.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Can't be sure about any individual rider, no
but it’s certain that from any group staying together, at least half can go faster.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
but the point is, people are making the point by pulling out individual riders
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Oh please, that is ridiculous
They will jhave to dope to win and finish.
They missed the time cut by a handful of seconds today. That is some microdoping right there.
Yes, plus see my earlier comment
I think the big group out was a message.
Yeah, of course
They’re just using a faulty rule to their advantage, but that doesn’t mean the rule isn’t faulty.
The 20% rule could lead to perverse stuff
HTC DS tells all his riders to join grupetto and phones other DS to ask the same, to make group bigger
moo
Maybe it should be 20% still but of the 5th or 10th rider getting home
Helps everyone equally, minimises strange finishes because of big crashes, gets rid of unintended consequences if a someone dopes and does a massive ride only to later get kicked off the tour.
Run it off something like the upper quartile
ie with 168 riders, that would be the 42nd rider home (about nine minutes back today, for instance) Obviously, you lower the percentage of the time that you use for the delai then.
Avoids the situation where there’s a single rider or a small group who ride off into the distance, or also a big crash. It’s far enough back that, a bunch of riders could be sent back to force the time limit back without preventing a few bigs from gaining lots of time if there’s a strange stage.
But I like the 20% rule – it means that you don’t have to worry about messing up the calculation and chucking out a load of riders.
They should be kicked out of the KOM and GC for being hors delai, though.
Quote of someone wiser than me
Why? What difference does ten minutes make to the spectacle or the race?
There needs to be a time limit
But I have no problem with adding another ten minutes.
Frankly, I’d prefer it to be a fixed limit from the start calculated based on the length and difficulty of the stage, and adjusted only for the weather (longer if there’s a headwind, for instance). That way they know exactly what they’re aiming for.
There needs to be a time limit
why? I can’t believe they would want to finish three hours behind the stage winner. That would mean their whole team would have to wait for them at the finish. Less time to eat, sleep or go to massage… I don’t see any real advantages there
Someone with an injury could splutter along
Just to say they had finished. They need to be told to stop before they hurt themselves.
Plus with no limit, you might see people entered who really shouldn’t be climbing the mountains and just get off and walk up.
They are sprinters ... make them SPRINT
Just modify the rule, like the 3km rule.
Same time calculation process
If the bus comes in together under the cut, they all continue on and lose points.
BUT if someone can sprint from the group and make a gap. Then everyone behind is out.
It would force them to control guys off the front and kick up the speed. Probably no one would want to flirt with that possible disaster.
I repeat, why are we talking about making these guys ride harder, what for?
What difference does ten minutes make to the spectacle or the race?
by platypus on Jul 22, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's a road race.
Not the track world championships. If you want to ride the Tour de France, learn how to climb.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
They can climb
A hundred times better than the track guys. And that’s not even the point. You’re talking about making the slowest guys ride maybe 1 kmp/h quicker for no benefit – it doesn’t make the race more exciting, nor provide more of a spectacle.
Sorry if I seem tetchy, it always angers me slightly when I hear people say sprinters can’t climb. They can!! Relative to 95% of other cyclists, they are phenomenal climbers, it does them great disservice to suggest otherwise.
So what,
We’re not allowed to say that Frank can’t time-trial and Kloden Levi can’t sprint any more either?
We can all say these things
But I think we should remember just how good these guys are. My personal opinion is that we all sometimes forget just how talented they are and after a race such as this, maybe we should stand back and tip our caps to them.
Well, of course we mean shit climbers compared to the other pro's
That’s a totally obvious addendum.
That's my exact point
Sprinters are good climbers! But track sprinters are better sprinters! In fact, they could probably win if they didn’t have to worry about not making time cuts.
Do you want the see the green jersey go to a guy who finishes an hour down to Andy on a mountain stage? I don’t. It’d be a farce.
So it doesn’t become a question of whether there’s a time cut, but where the time cut is drawn.
And once they draw it, they should enforce it.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Agree with you, but a question
If you take out the loophole, how do you handle the freak occurences? For example, train delays, crazy French protects, etc. Is that why they made the loophole/rule in the first place?
Why not
Wait until the end of the race?
You have to finish within x percent of the winners final GC time? That way, a sprinter can have a really bad day in the high mountains, but have the opportunity to make up for it on a slightly more favourable stage for him.
There is an incentive to ride hard, because there is a time limit, but you are not penalising guys for not being able to keep up with the best climbers hammering over 3 enormous climbs.
Sure it would suck to be removed from the standings have ridden every KM, but you’d have plenty of warning and chance to correct it.
Edgar knows best.
So you have them finish the entire race
Then the judges get out a calculator and say “Look, I know we’re in Paris now, but you were too slow. You didn’t finish this race. Neither did you, and you, and you.”
Now that’s harsh.
Sure it's harsh
But you’d have fair warning. As opposed to dragging your ass over 3 HC’s and then being dumped with no opportunity to make up for it.
If you knew you’d struggle today say, you might make a bit more effort to keep up on a stage like into Gap, for example, which would be much easier to do. The bus finished 15 minutes down on that stage. And even then, you’d have ride as hard as you could today, but you wouldn’t be overly penalised if you just couldn’t manage it.
Edgar knows best.
But why?
Why can’t the lose some time in the harder stages. It’s not as if it affects the race in any way.
Some times? We are talking half an hour here
at some point you need to justify being at the most important race in the world as a top professional
But to be fair
the whole grupetto was 20 seconds inside what the winner of the etape did this stage in. So that’s hardly taking it easy.
The étape is for amateurs, they even have to pay an entrance fee.
These guys GET paid to do it.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
So Cance can do today's stage three hours slower than Contador?
And then rip all the GC guys apart tomorrow? That sounds like a fair battle :/
We have the Eneco tour for riders who can't climb.
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
I don't think threatening more DQs would be effective
Instead they should let all the riders know that as soon as the time cut is reached, all French media cars will be given free reign to the course.
by Logy on Jul 22, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hater's gonna hate.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Including 1 rider from every French team...
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Well, if Leopard finish 1 & 2
we might need to revise that… but yes.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
I think that
Peraud is going to pass Rolland in the TT, and Phil and Paul are going to call him Riblon the entire time.
So looking at the weather
30% chance of rain in the afternoon. 13km/h winds from the north. The course is a loop, but goes more North/South than East/West, so most of the time will be head/tail wind.
Edgar knows best.
tmart vs cance FTW - will they ride before coverage?
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
PLEASE!! I want to see this...preview for Worlds
With T-Mart winning of course :)
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe they're both just saving energy
but they both seem pretty fatigued to me. I think someone else wins the TT.
Like who? Only guy I see coming close (maybe) is Millar
Martin beat EBH by 45 seconds in the Dauphine
Velits (if he is feeling good) or Tjallingii might be able to pull off a HUGE ride but I think it’s still a two horse race
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He was 1'20 off Martin at the Dauphine
I think Martin and Cancellara have been saving some in the tank for this and with Evans using his energy up in the mountains more than those two, I don’t see him winning.
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Millar will be MIA
He was really, really hurting today per his twitter account.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Yesterday too, said he was first dropped on the Agnel
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 22, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Bookies/gamblers have Evans as the favorite
http://www.oddschecker.com/other-sports/cycling/tour-de-france/winner
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
+1
Although bookie odds are usually very close to the truth.
"You better have a schleckond helping (of crow). You earned it."
--Paisley
by dees ees en drama on Jul 23, 2011 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
You can get 4/6!
God knows when it was last that open with only one (significant) stage left.
They’re giving him 60 chances in 111, approximately.
by EdredonBrowny on Jul 22, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Comment of the day from Matt Goss' twitter
As a sprinter its not a nice sight to see alberto contador attack at the bottom of the first of 3 massive climbs!
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
by PopUp Rolen on Jul 22, 2011 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Pierre Rolland
Almost 4 minutes off Pantani’s record
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpe_d’Huez#Fastest_Alpe_d.27Huez_ascents
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
That's really impressive
In a good-for-cycling way
by Forstoppelse on Jul 22, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
1 speed tour
I have got the impression this tour that there aren’t ‘prepared’ folk. Perhaps a reason why riders like Rolland and Voeckler can stay with the GC contenders. THe GC contenders just aren’t going as quick as they used to.
Well, of course they're not going as quick as they used to :)
And I guess you could call it “preparedness”
But of course you have to qualify. There are dozens of reasons why times are different. For example, this Tour is missing about 10 GC contenders due to accidents.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Haha. My kind of cyclist :)
stijnvlaeminck stijn vlaeminck
“Een pintje” Dat was het eerste wat Jelle Vanendert vroeg toen hij in het hotel kwam. #sporza
= “A beer”. That’s the first thing Jelle Vanendert asked for when he arrived at the hotel.
From Vanendert's hometown
Achelse Trappist, one of the world’s seven official Trappist beers (real Trappist is made by actual monks).
It looks like Liquigas will finish yet another Grand Tour with all their riders
What’s the streak at now @irishpeloton?
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Knock of wood!
They don’t have students of Ras. the chicken doing the time trial do they?
Can I get a HELL YES for Thomas De Gendt please?
Can’t believe I haven’t mentioned this yet :)
- Are you becoming a climber or a stage racer now?
° I don’t know any more!
My parents' farewell-before-their-holiday dinner
We ate in front of the tv.
Girl’s gotta have her priorities.
there have been a lot of WTF moments in this tour
but that was really one of the most bizarre.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
You know, the more you talk about him, the more his VDS price is going up next year
Although, I did remember thinking, “who the fuck is the Vacansoleil rider up there?” while watching.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Short mountain stages rules.
Beside A Schlecks epic ride yesterday, which I think will likely be a one off, shorter mountain stages provide much better entertainment. Everybody dares much more.
Chapeau to Rolland and Contador for making this stage great.
The problem with 100km stages
is the 100km bus rides that go with them.
They need to get from the grand depart to the Pyrenees/Alpes to the Alps/Pyrenees to Paris in three weeks. Lot of ground to cover.
Don't think its a problem. Divide the country up a bit and take the stages
in chunks, then use the rest days for some transportation.
Based on this year's Giro and Tour, all GT race organizers should have to follow these rules
1. Any high mountain stage with a summit finish has to be under 110 kilometers
2. All other multiple mountain stages must end on a descent
I picked Riccardo Ricco for my 2011 VDS team, and submitted said team well before the submission deadline. I fully understand the error of my ways, and plead with the VDS Gods to allow me to resubmit my team.
+3
and many non-mountain stages should have some sort of uphill at finish …. no matter how short
moo
and leave notes on all houses on descents to leave their gates open to car parks
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree 100% Good bunch sprint is poor joy!
"I love bike races warm up, warm down, cobbles mountains or flats."
perezbike
.
Many not all
but the first week of the Tour was surprisingly good in part because guys like Phil Gil had stages designed for him, versus all for guys like Cav
moo
So you're saying this years Giro sucked?
You dissapoint me Phil. I expected a more supportive attitude from you.
Poor Giro, really doesn’t deserve this.
Well I was being a bit sarcastic with 2
seriously, I can live with 5. And no it didn’t suck but yes the Tour was much more exciting
-2! on this Phil. I need at least 50/50
"I love bike races warm up, warm down, cobbles mountains or flats."
perezbike
.
Or one of the better Giro's in my opinion...2004
11 flat stages
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And it would have been even better if it had only 2
by Phil H. on Jul 22, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If your doing that day after day before huge mountains, it would be a lot more
taxing to your system. Diesels would be wanting to upgrade to Turbo Diesels to be able to hold on to the guys with more fast twitch muscles for those finishes
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you'd find climbers more comfortable and eased with 2 km of uphill than dead flat
sprinters would just sit back anyway
Mt. Etna agrees
It told Basso the same thing in May.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
I remember the poll on queen stage/vital stage
That Will ran. I thought it’d all be over (Contadover) after stage 12. Clearly, I was wrong.
They’re all in the bank now, but it is still a valid question: biggest stage of the race? Yesterday? Today? Or is it still tomorrow (outside of Will’s poll, but nvm)?
Nice tale of Millar and Eisel today, from Millar's twitter
Bernie Eisel & I formed an eternal bond today. We were off the back on our own within the first few km’s of Telegraph. Seemed Game Over.
We’d each have good & bad patches. During one of my bad patches I told Bernie just to go, ‘Davie, we go home together, or Paris together.’
Camaraderie transcends teams on occasions, that was one of them.
Mind you, he scared the bajesus out of me on the descent of the Galibier.
well Bernie needs Millar for their sprint train on the Champs...
:) (nice story though)
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
St. David, saying the rosary to Our Lady of the Red Kite
Jens Voigt doesn’t know where you live, but he knows exactly where you will die.
of course
you would have sent them both home…
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
It would make their shared bond all the more meaningful.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Hey... I've always wondered
Why is the Green jersey worth double what the polka dots is worth in VDS?
Polka Dots is equivalent to third in Green (60pts).
That seems bizarre. Also considering how many points sprinters already get for stage wins/finishes… when they just finish in a big bunch.
The dotty is just not contested very much usually.
Green is generally much more contested.
right, but the fight was kicked off from the beginning of the race (with perhaps
5-6 serious comeptitors). The Dotty always ends up being a default guy in the end.
Guys were fighting for stage wins
but only two guys have actually really cared for the green. The dots had a better fight this year IMO
I used the term "usually",
and we had 3 guys battling for the Green all the way up stage 13 or so.
The green battle was pretty good last year, whereas the dotty
was a french lottery.
Take a look at the early intermediate sprints
There were loads of people going for it
I think they are both contested.... just not by the "big" names.
I just look at Cav who can finish hours off the pace. Win 5 stages (which already pays out HUGE – 400pts and get 120 more for green) he’s on pace to make almost 600pts in the Tour same as the winner gets.
Then Samu, will finish top ten GC (likely 7th), has a first and second AND the polka Dots and will likely only get 500ish points.
Sure, Cav is dominant in sprints, but….
By dominant you mean dominant in a way no other sprinter has managed for a long time
I mean when was the last time someone managed to get 5+ wins in the Tour, certainly no ones done it other than Cav since 1990 odd and that’s merely when I got bored checking and he’s done it each of the last 3 years. And as you’ve noticed most of the points he’s getting are for the Stage wins rather than the jersey
by randomgerbil on Jul 22, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we're missing the point.
Cav didn’t win green last year. This year he will (likely).
I’m not debating Cav’s dominance. I’m saying that third in the green jersey shouldn’t be as many points as winning the polka dots jersey.
Sprints pay big points in VDS because of stage wins. Cav got 400 in wins alone last year.
Anthony Chartreau wins the polka dots, is on the podium in Paris and only gets 60 points for that? At least give the dude 100. It’s got to be worth as much as someone winning the Luxembourg National TT championship when only 4 guys enter.
Charteau received 160 points last year
10 from being 5th on a stage, the rest from leading and winning the KoM.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough, certainly the dots getting less points than 3rd in Green seems a bit off
What I was objecting to was the implication I got that Cav likely competing another unprecedented for any other modern sprinter hall of stage wins is a feat which shouldn’t come near/surpass Samu’s in the tour which while it included a fine stage win, nice win of the dots and a solid GC placement which while is a Tour I’ve enjoyed watching doesn’t have the same once in a generation feel.
Now obviously how you compare people in two completely different disciplines is largely a matter of taste but but I can’t see Cav getting more points than Samu as too shocking.
by randomgerbil on Jul 22, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Because usually either some really average climber gets it by hoovering up points on the small mountains, or with the new rules, no one really goes for it but it just happens to land on the shoulders of one of the bigs.
Yeah... I guess.
I think winning the Polka Dots, should be worth more than finishing second in Green…. especially more than third.
Nah
Not if the jersey doesn’t start meaning more. Do you even remember who won the KoM last year? I don’t. I know it was some average climby French dude, but that’s it.
He was on the front today pulling Voeckler back to the big guys...Anthony Charteau
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not fair Vlanderen90, you could tell us who won the KOM in 1982 :)
by FrenchKheldar on Jul 22, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Very close
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Bernard Vallet
Not sure I’ve heard the name before. But van Impe won 1981 and 83 (plus 4 times in the 70s).
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
best
take that up with toon&joop ;
by Amsterdam Admirals on Jul 22, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That's like Dutch to me
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It's still a prestigious prize for Anthony Chartreau
who finished third in green last year? In fact who won? Petacchi? Yes, that’s right.
Yeah, I'm sure Charteau loves it
I’m also sure Beletti totally digs his win in the Brixia Tour today
I'm not sure your point
You think winning the best climber in the world’s biggest race is equivalent to winning a stage in the Brixia tour?
No, my point is
that it shouldn’t matter what it means to Charteau. Yes, to Charteau that is a huge bullet point on his palmares.
To Samu, it’s probably somewhat of a failure.
I guess I just respect the KOM jersey and maybe you don't
When I see names like Bahamontes, Coppi, Merckx, Gaul, etc. et.c associated with a jersey, I think it has importance.
I think breaking away through the mountains, when that is where the race is won and lost has importance.
Other than his infamy. Richard Virenque is one of the biggest names in Tour history because of that jersey.
Beyond him (if you don’t like Virenque) Bahamontes?… One would really have to be disrespectful to his dominance is they think that Bahamontes winning six polka dots is like winning six stages, over six years in shit small races.
Bahamontes, Coppi, Merckx, Gaul,
You forgot the great Lucien Van Impe!
The polka dots jersey has changed a lot since that era. In None of the best climbers in the last fifteen years have won it.
That’s why a lot of people don’t respect it anymore.
I'd say maybe in the last 4 years
but that’s in part only because of the Kohl and Pelozotti removal.
No offense but Jalabert won the KOM and it could not climb anything over 2000m...
by FrenchKheldar on Jul 22, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Same for Virenque
He never managed to follow the GC riders, always won it with a long breakaway. And yeah there’s probably an exception, but you get my point.
Virenque and Sanchez weren't the best climbers
Virenque simply never was
And this year Bert and Andy were better climbers that Samu.
I agree with Rasmussen though. He deserved the jersey.
This conversation is going nowhere.
How was Virenque not the best climber?
How was Andy OR Bert better than Samu?
Sanchez won on Luz Ardiden. Got second on Alpe d’Huez and second on Plateau de Bielle.
That is just. Andy is better because of one stage? Bert is better because of????
AND...
we’re still missing the point that the Polka dots jersey is worth MORE than third place in Green.
We COULDN’T even have this debate about third place in green.
THUS, illustrating it’s significance to many from both sides of the spectrum.
Let’s debate who was the best sprinter of those who got third place in the Green jersey
Are you seriously debating the fact that Virenque was never the best climber?
Samu only got away because he lost time in the first week and wasn’t a GC threat. Without that loss he wouldn’t have won Luz Ardiden or gotten second on plateau de Beille.
He coulnt’s follow Andy and Bert when they attacked today and yesterday and only finished ahead of them today because they wasted an immense amount of energy with their attack.
You must have a short memory
I’m not debating anything with you if you forget recent history.
Who’s the best climber in the world, generally? Contador… we agree?
Who just tracked down Contador and beat him up Alpe D’Huez? Sanchez.
The KOM jersey is for the KING of the mountains. NOT for the best winner in the mountains. The best placing over ALL the mountains.
You talk about Virenque like he was Eisel.
So we shouldn't have any jerseys?
or we should just give it to Cav at the beginning of the Tour and to Bert at the beginning?
That isn’t helping your argument that Green is worth more than Polka Dots.
You’re debating two contradicting points at the same time (best overall matters & you beat the best once so you are the best) and then act victorious when someone rebates one but not the other.
How so?
I said: The KOM jersey is more significant than third place in the green jersey, but our points don’t reflect that.
I’m saying that winning a stage has many, many aspects to it, one of them is position in the GC standings. That doesn’t take away the value of the win!
Why not describe why either of the “secondary” jerseys should exist and why one is worth double than the other
In this bit
Who’s the best climber in the world, generally? Contador… we agree?
Who just tracked down Contador and beat him up Alpe D’Huez? Sanchez.
The KOM jersey is for the KING of the mountains. NOT for the best winner in the mountains. The best placing over ALL the mountains.
Sanchez in the Pyrenees too.
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
You must have a short memory
I’m not debating anything with you if you forget recent history.
I must be misinterpreting the discussion above
Who’s the best climber in the world, generally? Contador… we agree?
Yes
Who just tracked down Contador and beat him up Alpe D’Huez? Sanchez.
See above :
He coulnt’s follow Andy and Bert when they attacked today and yesterday and only finished ahead of them today because they wasted an immense amount of energy with their attack.
The KOM jersey is for the KING of the mountains. NOT for the best winner in the mountains. The best placing over ALL the mountains.
Maybe that’s why it isn’t respected anymore. I want the best climber to wear the polka dots
You talk about Virenque like he was Eisel.
More like a modern day Voeckler: lose time on purpose so you can do a long breakaway.
But Sanchez WAS the best climber this Tour.
See my response above to TSgirl.
There is no point having the jerseys if you just award them to the “accepted” best.
Cav gets that recognition in wins.
Bert gets is in Grand Tour titles.
It’s stupid to think that the Tour would just give the jersey to the most dominant.
The point of the jerseys is the best climber given the course and the conditions of the race.
If Sanchez lost time and then could attack on Luz…. that’s fine. So is his win meaningless?
Then every other win in the Tour is meaningless. You think Hushovd could really beat Contador over Aubisque? Obviously not.
Your point is so irrelevant it’s not worth discussing further.
Nah, I like the jerseys
But I think 99% of the fans will agree with me that the green jersey should reward the best sprinter and polka dots should reward the best climber.
Therefore the points system should be so that the best sprinter automaticallly has the best chance of winning it (this years systen is great IMO). The points system they used in previous years favoured the most consistent finisher.
Same for polka dots. If your points system is so that attackers have a much bigger chance of winning it than the best climbers, then there’s something wrong and as a consequence the jersey loses its prestige.
Oh and:
Your point is so irrelevant it’s not worth discussing further.
No need for that, this is a friendly environment. Let’s keep it that way.
The green jersey isn't for the best sprinter.
it’s for the guys who crosses the most sprint lines, and finish lines, first.
The Polka dot jersey isn’t for the best climber, it’s for the guy who crosses the most KOM lines and finish lines first.
Well that's where we disagree
I think the jerseys should reward the best climber and finisher (I think they were intended that way initially).
The way you describe it reminds me of the meta volante’s in Giro and Vuelta and nobody gives a shit about these.
That's not where we disagree.
Where we disagree is that you think that although those situations are the same: flawed in the same way. One jersey is worth double the other.
That’s my beef.
If anyone says the Polka Dot jersey is insignificant because of these reasons…. the same reasons apply to the green jersey.
Except that I've never seen Virenque trade punches with top GC guys on Cat1/HC climbs
Never ever… And Voeckler did it several times this year. Which is why Virenque was never a yellow jersey threat even without taking ITT into account.
by FrenchKheldar on Jul 22, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
True that
It would probably hurt TV’s feelings knowing he’s compared to Virenque.
But they both used similar tactics (lose time on purpose so the peloton lets you go). They probably had other goals in mind though.
I seriously don't understand what is wrong with that
They paint lines on the road and say:
First rider over this line wins a prize. (whether it is an intermediate line or finish line)
Guys with most prizes, win the biggest prize. One yellow, One green, One Polka dot.
These are the conditions…. blah, blah, blah.
So why is green worth more than polka dot?
Saying Polka dots is worth-less cause they lose time to win in the mountains, is the same as saying that sprinters/rouleurs lose time in the mountains to win in the sprints.
Is it not?
The problem is that they lose time
so they can go in a break in the mountains, sweep up points on the first two cols and then get their ass kicked when the race really breaks loose.
(this in previous years)
That's exactly what the sprinters do
to the point that by the rules, they should be kicked out of the race.
Conserve when it’s beneficial to be dominant when it matters.
How is there a difference? Hushovd won the Green with few stage wins. how is that different than Virenque?
OK... I agree
AND if green is only for the best sprinter…
then why is Gilbert involved? (and in third)… he’s not a sprinter! He’s a Rouleur. But it’s better that he is involved. Right?
Either way you look at it, both jerseys are for specialists. Measured by prizes.
The Yellow is for the other guys.
If one group can lose time to win a jersey, why can’t the other group? It’s just the same.
Look. Quick test.
Name the biggest and most recent winners of the polka dots (off the top of my head… so I could be wrong)
Virenque ( 7 times)
Soler
Rasmussen
Martinez
Charteau
Sanchez
NOW, name the second place finishers in Green that come to mind, without just naming random sprinters:
……. Cav. …. …. …. …. ….
Well, Egoi didn't technically win....
Jen Grey was stripped of it.
I guess I could have added Sastre.
but you know Virenque, and that jersey is the main reason why.
A. That doesn't make him a good climber
B. It’s not because something used to be good, that it still is good.
Problem with the KOM
is that the best climbers are GC guys, and yellow is worth a lot more than dots.
Which means that either OK climbers ride for the points in the early climbs, or you end up giving it semi-randomly to a GC guy who happens to have got better placings than most.
Alternative approach: Combined time in high mountain stages only.
As well, it's not just Polka dots.
Young rider is only worth 60 as well.
I think it should be Green – 120 (then reducing)
Polka Dots and White – 100 (then reducing)
Combative – 60 (then reducing)
No VDS points for combative
It’s a useless competition.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
And seriously
I’d love points for combativité. But for actual combativité then.
Voeckler riding til he couldn’t recognise his own mother last night, that’s combativité. Hoogie riding to the finish with his entire body ripped open, that’s combativité. Tombo riding for five days with a concussion in a hopeless attempt to salvage his season, that’s combativité.
Some unknown Saur rider who goes into a 200k useless 8min break-away, that’s just pack-fodder.
Yet these riders make the race fun.
Maybe VDS is not in the business of rewarding entertainment, but then again maybe it is worth considering.
Not because it's "useless"
but because it’s a jury prize.
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
Ehrmm
That was my opinion on the combativity prize. And one reason for it is the jury bit.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I know that was your opinion, hence the quotes
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
History, prestige, judgement call
"On paper, your team is awesome." -- Pigeons on my WVDS team, and life in general.
*slow clap for Voeckler*
Let’s face it: he stayed in yellow longer than anyone thought possible (including himself).
How’s his TT? Where does he end up?
YEAH BUDDAY!
by With Ferentz Like These... on Jul 22, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions
Someone said that they're staying in the ski resort on Alpe d'Huez
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
2 Schlecks on the podium is wrong.
Nothing wrong with getting A Schleck up there, but F Schleck have done zero in making this race attractive. I hope Voeckler somehow can outperform and take back the podium spot. Go Voeckler.
Is Frank a shit enough TT for Bert to gain 3 minutes in 42km?
I mean he is really shit…but is he THAT shit?
I actually think that's almost doable for Bert against Frank.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
if he has anything left in the tank
after today
Attack on Luz Ardiden?
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
a tiny little 700m attack at the absolute end of a mountain stage
means very little to me. Go Voeckler.
I think Voeckler can
I mean, he’s never tried in a TT that we can collectively remember and his not trying is close to as good as Frank in a lot of circumstances. Plus, dude is tiny and has got to punch a smaller hole in the air.
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 22, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't get this.
Why is Frank less worthy than anyone else?
Voeckler has ridden with great heart and well beyond expectations, honoring the jersey and then some. But he also got the jersey originally in a lucky move on a strange day. I happen to think that’s fine. It’s how the race came down. But the race has also come down to Frank in second going in to time trial after three weeks of racing.
I think Frank has had the benefit of being on the team with Andy to improve his standing.
Andy is more likely to chase attacks and, of course, this week, Frank had an opportunity to just sit in. I certainly wouldn’t say that Frank made the race exciting in the way that some other riders did. However, I find these regular discussions about riders being “deserving” or “worthy” of a certain place in a race to be odd. I agree, paisley, he’s in 2nd place, you can’t actually take that away from him (well, until the time trial I guess, but you know what I mean). He and his team were able to do what it took for him to be consistent enough to get into that spot. It’s not by accident that he’s there.
by KnittingGene on Jul 22, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He must have dreamed of Eros Poli last night
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
he probably didn't want to be yelled at by us DDIFP for missing the time cut.
by JustJoshinYa on Jul 22, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
My bet
1. Andy
2. Cadel at 20 ish seconds back
3. Voeckler as Frank is not allowed to ride with the Camelback
depending on the wind
As they say, stronger wind favours the smaller guy.
A stroll down 2008 lane
GC after Stage 19:
1 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC – Saxo Bank
2 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC – Saxo Bank 1.24
3 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 1.33
4 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence – Lotto 1.34
5 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 2.39
Prediction Cadel would close the 1:34 to Carlos.
Results of stage 20
6 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 1.55
7 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence – Lotto 2.05
8 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 2.19
9 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 2.21
10 George Hincapie (USA) Team Columbia 2.28
11 Thomas Lövkvist (Swe) Team Columbia 2.29
12 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC – Saxo Bank 2.34
Carlos has the TT of his life. . .
Sastre wasn't that bad of a TTer though...I think that was a combo of him and Evans on a not so good day
A. Schleck isn’t as good of a TTer as Sastre in his prime
by Vlaanderen90 on Jul 22, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummm
I think Carlos being only 6 seconds slower than Big George is pretty, scary?
Carlos had the TTof his life...
and the blood bag of Cance.
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
Diesel climbers can usually do a decent time trial
It is the uphill sprinters that can’t time trial for their life.
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
Thanks
Presumably these are CET (ie local time in Grenoble).
Notable earlies:
CANCELLARA Fabian 11:48:00
MILLAR David 13:28:00
MARTIN Tony 14:26:00
White and Yellow contenders:
TAARAMAE Rein 15:45:00
PERAUD Jean-Christophe 15:48:00
ROLLAND Pierre 15:51:00
DANIELSON Tom 15:54:00
BASSO Ivan 15:57:00
SANCHEZ Samuel 16:00:00
CONTADOR Alberto 16:03:00
CUNEGO Damiano 16:06:00
VOECKLER Thomas 16:09:00
EVANS Cadel 16:12:00
SCHLECK Frank 16:15:00
SCHLECK Andy 16:18:00
Here on Danish television, they are showing replays of the famous Chicken TT
instead of early live pictures. Its entertaining, but after a while it get pretty old again.
I don't understand the Danes
How can that get old?
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
First time perhaps
Not the second time, and then the bike change
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Jul 22, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Hehe
laurenstendam:
Team Director @edekker1970 jumped the barrier at 2 km to go and handed me a cols Heineken. Great taste, made me fly to the finish!
Looks like today was beer day
Any beer has to be good at that point of the climb. :-)
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
Tejay may have a point about the time limits
Having such a short time cut makes riders take more risks on the descents. RIP Wouter.
Hmmmm. That makes me more inclined to adding ten minutes to the time limit than any other suggestion.
PS Did you know that for several of the early years with mountains riders were allowed to abandon into the broom wagon and still ride the next day – and stay in the green jersey competition without penalty (kicked out of yellow, though)
What risks? All they have to do is stick in a big group
if that rule didn’t exist then there would be real risks. And if you don’t want to take those risks than practice your climbing, and TVG should be nowhere near the sprinters. I’m sick of references to the WW death when they really have little relevance.
I think he has a point, though 20% rule has negated it the last two days because the gruppetto has been so dang big
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 22, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The time cut did not magically appear this year in the Tour
riders are attacking earlier this year which is why they are missing it. Maybe he has a point but the WW death does not need to be referenced for it to be a good point. I’m seeing this as using a tragic incident to bolster your stance on something, be happy you are less cynical than I am.
I’m seeing this as using a tragic incident to bolster your stance on something, be happy you are less cynical than I am.
+1
yr second sentence.
He may well have a point, but invoking WW in every safety argument from now until the end of time is going to get tiresome fast.
Yes
especially because the WW incident was on a typical descent on dry roads(OK pretty technical but nothing out of the ordinary) and as sad as it is was due to rider error. The fact this can happen to anyone at anytime is always going to be part of a risky sport like cycling. It is a fair reference if you are saying that rocks on the side of the road need to be covered up for instance(because that is directly related) but not for saying that the time cut is too low in a GT stage IMO.
+ more
Tejay is way out of line there.
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
Yah, I get what you mean about riders attacking earlier. Totally agree on WW too
Just saying general point about sprinters and dropped guys taking a lot of risks is something worth considering.
As one guy I knew who raced at a high level said “nobody wants to go that fast, it’s far too scary… but everyone has to for fear of being left behind.”.
My fruit bowl is full of sex wax--gavia
by Douglas Ansel on Jul 22, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently the big autobus only forms on the slopes of the last mountain
e.g. Eisel and Millar in a group of two down the Galibier (above)
It forms way before - when the likes of Cance and Thor let go
Eisel and Millar only caught up to it on the slopes of the last mountain
Just heard Rolland's interview
And I like him even more now.
“After Thomas told me to go, how could I not win the stage for him?”
He said that Voeckler told him that his (TV's) race was run
and he should go on ahead. And when he was struggling up the mountain (I guess when he was clinging onto SamSan’s wheel, but he didn’t specify that) he was thinking how grateful was was to his team leader for giving him this opportunity and he didn’t want to give it up.
[My summary of an ITV translation of an interview in French]
Good kid. Really good kid. The sort you’d be proud to introduce to your daughter (which, y’know, I don’t have)
I heard the French
& understood it enough to say that’s right. Tommy (once he’d done been a bit cross) also said that there was no point in Rolland doing anything else and it was his day & he really deserved it.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
Barring some doping scandal which includes one of the top 10 (knock on wood)
This will do down as the second best Tour I’ve ever seen, regardless of tomorrow’s outcome. Behind 1989 but better than 2003. It’s just been a great three weeks (outside of all the crashes of course)
1989 was well before I've been watching
but this has been the best Tour I’ve watched.
1989 might have been slightly more dramatic
because of the final TT being on the last day, and the fact that Lemond was an extreme longshot.
How can anyone be talking OOT rules today?!
Snap out of it! Look at this beautiful race we have.
by Jens on Jul 22, 2011 4:10 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
We already discussed the beautiful race this afternoon
And just like yesterdag, the OOT discussion proved to be highly entertaining
I'm waiting for the shoe...
…to drop.
There are so many aspects to the sport that you have to take into consideration. Cycling is not like math. You can't plan things exactly. - Alberto Contador 24/07/10
hallelujah
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
It's rediculous they penalise all 80 OOTers
79 of them were only there to check the other one didn’t hang on to any cars.
don't count your chickens before they're hatched
one of them (more likely Frank, I think) could well replicate Rasmussen’s 2004 ITT adventure.
Btw, saw that LA tweeted there’s a 70% chance of rain in Grenoble tomorrow. True?
This is correct - 70% chance of rain.
reliving the excitement of the 2003 TT?
reliving the drama of the 2009 Giro TT?
Man, tomorrow is going to be crazy.
If Andy wakes up and it’s raining….. he’s going to cry. Downhill on a TT bike in the rain?
Yikes.
Just watched.
Feel drained. What an amazing, amazing stage. (Apart from the idiots on the Alpe which made it almost too alarming to watch at certain points.) What an amazing race.
À demain.
"I’m hoping for the Mortirolo-Gavia combination, then we can ride down to Bormio for ice cream." Emma Pooley on the Giro Donne
My problem
I convinced my better half last night to let me rewatch the stage on the basis that it was amongst the best ever in TDF history!
And now I am trying to use the same argument again tonight. She’s just not buying it. But its true !
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
You know what rules?
These last two days, I’ve been taking the side that Schleck will only lose 40 or 45 seconds to Cadel Evans.
That would be a 12-17 second victory.
Obviously, I would not be surprised if my pick to win ends up getting second (Schleckond?) in Paris. I imagine most people are in the same boat as me.
"You better have a schleckond helping (of crow). You earned it."
--Paisley
by dees ees en drama on Jul 23, 2011 2:03 AM EDT reply actions
I have no divided loyalties. It's Cadel all the way. Unfortunately, I think Schleck the younger will win.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
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