Vuelta Stage 15: Cobo Steals Angliru Thunder
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 4, 2011 12:18 PM EDT
in Vuelta a España
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Geox climber Juan Jose Cobo took his Vuelta a Espana performance up a step and reached new heights in his career with a dramatic victory on the feared slopes of the Alto de l'Angliru, a performance that bested his second from yesterday and which also put him in the leader's red jersey. Cobo attacked as the legendary road steepened, passing Igor Anton of Euskaltel and soloing home through a sea of humanity and over the horrific 23% gradients of the Angliru. The steepest pitch, coming with just under 3km remaining, claimed the hopes of race leader Bradley Wiggins (and the moto camera following him), as he and several others cracked and wobbled, giving Cobo the chance to take his 30-second lead out to 48 seconds over Wouter Poels of Vacansoleil, Cobo's teammate Denis Menchov, and Sky's Chris Froome. Wiggins came in 1.21 down, after a brave defense of his jersey that fell one mega-ramp short of success.
Defending champion Vincenzo Nibali of Liquigas dropped out of contention today, as did Jakob Fuglsang and Frederik Kessiakov, both of whom entered the day under a minute down. Bauke Mollema of Rabobank also saw his overall chances dented, though he remains solidly in the white jersey just 1.31 down. Froome and Wiggins are still both within striking distance of Cobo, just 20 and 46 seconds in arrears, with at least one more stage of consequence as the race enters the Basque Country after tomorrow's rest day. Cobo has never finished higher than 10th in a grand tour, so while he is an established climber, his ability to defend a race lead is totally unknown. Cobo becomes the ninth different leader of the race, a statistic that can sometimes be misleading in a grand tour, but in this case is a pretty accurate reflection of a Vuelta lacking in dominant riders.
Today was one of the great moments of the 2011 cycling season for those of us on the sidelines, as the race crawled dramatically up the unimaginable slopes of the Angliru, with the worst 20% sections overrun by fans. It was chaotic, to say the least, and I'm sure there will be a few choice comments about the course and the fans. But for those of us with the luxury of watching from home, it was exactly the kind of spectacle the mega-climbs promise. Results:
- JJ Cobo, Geox
- Wout Poels, Vacansoleil, at 0.48
- Denis Menchov, Geox, s.t.
- Chris Froome, Sky, s.t.
- Bradley Wiggins, Sky, at 1.21
- Igor Anton, Euskaltel, s.t.
- Joaquim Rodriguez, Katusha, at 1.35
- Maxime Monfort, Leopard-Trek, s.t.
- Bauke Mollema, Rabobank, s.t.
- Sergey Lagutin, Vacansoleil, s.t.
And your new GC, both shaken and stirred:
- Cobo
- Froome, at 0.20
- Wiggins, at 0.46
- Mollema, at 1.36
- Monfort, at 2.37
- Menchov, at 3.01
- Jakob Fuglsang, Leopard, at 3.06
- Vincenzo Nibali, Liquigas, at 3.27
- Jurgen Van Den Broeck, Omega Pharma, at 3.58
- Poels, at 4.13
Parting shot:
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Hindsight is 20/20
But Froome is 20" back. Lost 27" riding for Wiggins on Stage 11
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
How much did they miss out on in that horrid TTT?
All posts are at altitude. Acclimation may be necessary
I think the commentators said that Sky were 42" back and Geox were 44" back in the TTT
Havent checked for myself though
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
Interesting that
Though with time bonuses in action that 20" is really nothing… Can’t wait to see how the tactics play out!
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
Sagan lost 14'36" for those who made a bet
Frinking guessed 15 I think
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
From the other thread
Cobo rode a 34×32. Pretty bizarre ratio there. Nearly one to one pedal revs to wheel revs?
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 4, 2011 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
I think Vino used that on Zoncolan last year too didn't he?
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
And if you want my guess, this is a big part of why he won.
Everyone else was overgeared, and he could spin.
Yeah
You only had to see the difference between Cobo and Wiggins on the 23% section. I didn’t think Cobo looked super comfortable there but Wiggins looked a lot worse
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
Somewhere in the last 4k--just before Wiggins' big crack
both he and Froome almost came to total stops—I was shuffling back and forth between stuff and didn’t see what caused that—but the power it took to get going again is not an insignificant effort—especially if you’re overgeared.
maybe one of the stalled motobikes?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
or a group of spectators getting in the way maybe?
I remember at least one point Froome couldn’t get around Wiggins because of the crowd, but not sure if it is the one you mean or not.
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
Sorry
Didn’t mean they were poorly behaved, just lots of them :)
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
Please don't apologize...
I’ve never seen so many idiots. It’s hard enough climbing on those grades without people right next to you screaming in your ears. i understand this is what fans do, to which I say, a lot of fans are morons. Get a life already.
Yeah, was just looking at exactly the same thing
I use those gears for similar climbs of half mile or less. I suck even more…..
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
by muk on Sep 4, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know...for suckage, I am convinced I am the master.
(just wait till I get a gps enabled bike computer…and I can join the anti-KOM competition)
Peasant of the Mountains
Schleckonds.
by dees ees en drama on Sep 4, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't recall who
but read a great quote from a pro once regarding how slowly he was at making his way up some massively steep climb. It was something to the effect that he could read the writing on the sidewall of his tyre.
I often find myself reading the writing on my tyre….
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
by muk on Sep 4, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Proving once again that you don't have to be fast to be competitive?
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
As I said elsewhere, Cobo used a 34x32 - good choice in the end...
given that everyone else looked to be using 34×28′s! He certainly looked to really be spinning compared to everyone else today and everyone I saw ride it in 2008!
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
I think I read that J Rod had an absurd ratio too
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
He looked to be really struggling to turn them over,
was his a 32 at the back as well?
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
dutch commentary had Mollema at 36/28
I believe they said they verified it with the team mechanic prior to the start
Are team is gone. We should just take the L.A stadium. And start over cause it seems like u gave are team away…
by Amsterdam Admirals on Sep 4, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe the dutch really do need to build a mountain.
"BECAUSE THERE’S NO F*CKING SPRINTS." -Cavendish (asterisk added)
If the rest of the team was also geared just a little lighter,
that would explain their relative freshness. You don’t just gain that one lowest gear for the ultra-steeps; they may very well have had more flexibility in low end gearing for the not quite as steep steeps. I don’t think pros are totally immune to pushing a slightly bigger gear than they ought to, and then running out of steam. Not unless they’ve got a very concrete plan about which gears to use when, and the discipline to stick to that plan. I’m trying that idea on for size, RE Cobo and the team, and it’s fitting better than I expected it to.
"BECAUSE THERE’S NO F*CKING SPRINTS." -Cavendish (asterisk added)
Cance confirms 34/28 for him.
If he didn’t have lower, I doubt the other LT’s did.
"BECAUSE THERE’S NO F*CKING SPRINTS." -Cavendish (asterisk added)
Funny
I have a 24% ramp which I climb on a 39×26. It’s a pitiful sight, and I do not mean to suggest that I’m in any way much of a cyclist. But I would imagine a guy with Cance’s power could get up the Angliru with a poorer setup than this. The favorites, I get that they’re looking for the right cadence, but everyone in survival mode should be able to survive.
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 5, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Dood, you have nothing around you for 160km that is as big and bad ass as Angry Lou.
1400m elevation gain in about 20km of straight climbing.
Once you get past 10km of constant stupid stupid crazy up, the body really starts acting funny.
What would Deming do? (+8:00 GMT)
not my point
my point is what gearing do you need to get up the 23.5% ramp. But yeah, I get that they’re tired when they reach it.
Also, we do have climbs here.
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 5, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah geez, now you’re just making the NW look wussy.
Really now, you can get to some killer climbs in the Cascades.
Way nastier then what you linked to.
What would Deming do? (+8:00 GMT)
Hm
I’m not the expert, I guess maybe Mt Baker is up there, but the “big climbs” seem to be 6% avg gradients and very consistent. I think Hurricane Ridge is probably harder to actually do.
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 6, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
What would be ideal
is about a 5-10 second gap after stage 17. Would make those Basque days crazy when they look to be indecisive. But with 20 guys within 10 minutes I assume some dangerous break will go and make things interesting anyway.
Froome will no doubt have freedom to attack now...
We’ll see how Geox handle the 1-2 attacks of Sky given that Menchov is too far back for them to reply in kind!
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
One MTF left
and two good stages for Sky to put Geox under pressure. I wouldn’t say this is over by any means.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Geox getting Menchov into the early final moves on
a dangerous stage to make Sky do some work also
'I dropped my torch in the cave of pain ... It's pretty dark in here.'
Seems to me Sky has to do most of the work
Their big chance is if Fromme can win that MTF and get the bonus seconds. Can’t happen if a break gets away.
Smart teamwork from Denis Menchov
To finish third, denying Chris Froome any bonus seconds.
by ManBicycleThing on Sep 4, 2011 12:36 PM EDT reply actions
Menchov does seem to ride brainy. And with care.
He’s one of the riders I’d like to eventually get a book from, not just for the tell-all stuff, but for the race tactics / what was he thinking stuff. And the cross-cultural stuff. That’s assuming he can write, or find a good co-writer.
"BECAUSE THERE’S NO F*CKING SPRINTS." -Cavendish (asterisk added)
agreed
on the smart thing. Hell, the book too. Menchov has some pretty great three-week performances to his name, last year’s Tour being perhaps my favorite.
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 4, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And Monfort pulls a Zubeldia on everyone
suddenly appearing in 5th place after not being noticeably present at any point of the race.
Yes
the key to pulling a Zubeldia is to rise up high in the standings, but still not have anyone take your chances of winning seriously. Chapeau Maxime!
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 4, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He's riding steadily all Vuelta
It isn’t that much that he gained two places today, but more that others fell from the top 10 – Fuglsang and Kessiakoff. Though I admit that that’s really the same thing.
It also helps that he was in the winning team of the TTT, and that he rode a cracking ITT* (2min down on T-Mart, about 40s on Friggins). His lowest place on GC was 11th after stage 9, 55s down on Mollema.
*not selected for the ITT worlds in Copenhagen, that’s mental.
I am ready to hug the world - Tony Martin.
Yeah, just trying to provide some context
from perhaps the only PdC’er who’s been watching his performance closely :)
I am ready to hug the world - Tony Martin.
I love Monfort!
have had an eye on him all Vuelta, though not as much as you ;)
would be awesome if he kept a top 5.
Thinking back to that break in the Tour, such a brilliant move, where he got out front and was able to pace A. Schleck over the flats until the last climb started. Not that he came up with the idea on his own, but still . . . great ride.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Sep 4, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Smart teamwork by Sky could get them the leaders jersey back
I think Froome and Wiggins have the leg power to gap out Cobo in some of the coming stages to gain bonus seconds at least if not a little more (in theory anyway).
"It's a lovely thing, feeling that momentum. If you're lucky, it's also about grace." Tim Winton
And stupid teamwork / not believing in Froome (which was probably prudent) lost them the jersey
"Oh man, it’s going to take days to kill all these people!"
crap
that’s what vacation does to ya…
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 4, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Whats the point of next week's stages? Unless somebody in the top 10 crashes,
none of the stages can provide any changes at the top of the GC. Sorry, but thats just crazy imo. Waste.
++++++++++
Excellent ride from Cobo sealed the Vuelta deal. Nothing Wrooome and Wiggo could do about it.
Pena Cabarga can most certainly provide gaps
the Urquiola stage too I think, especially if you don’t have a strong team and it is ridden aggressively.
Perhaps a few secs on Pena Cabarga, but I can't see any diffs on stage 20 as
the 40kms flat terrain before the line kills any gaps imo.
However there is always hope.
20 seconds is one win of bonuses
stage 17 can easily provide that and the basque days could turn crazy if riders become desperate. But yes that has been my criticism from the day the route was announced, a short ITT in Madrid would have been perfect IMO. I think it’s mostly due to the uncertainty of Basque response, those climbs that can’t be accessed in April but can be now is a main reason the Basque country wanted Vuelta stages I think, so I’d hope eventually they would be used.
cool thanks!
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Sep 5, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
nice
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I'd also like to note that one Daniel Martin...
…has ascended to 16th, after finishing only 1:41 down today. For a first GT, this is not at all bad, I think.
Third GT
Giro last year (9th on Zoncolan) and the Vuelta 2 years ago.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Sep 4, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh that's right...
…this is the ‘big test’ not the first one.
what sprinters are left in the race now? Please tell me it's just Sagan and sore parawhatsitcalled?
If so, Sagan FTW, right?
Degenkolb and Boonen both finished today, Also Bennati, Howard, Vigano, Haussler, Sutton, Haedo, Van Avermet
So we probably got some competition to Sagan.
This weekend has also been very very good for Sagan’s chances at then Points jersey since J-Rod imploded. (No other sprinter-type is anywhere near the head of the Points competition.)
Top 9 in Points after today:
1 Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Katusha Team 90 pts
2 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 85
3 Peter Sagan (Svk) Liquigas-Cannondale 75
4 Wout Poels (Ned) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 71
5 Juan Jose Cobo Acebo (Spa) Geox-TMC 66
6 Daniel Moreno Fernandez (Spa) Katusha Team 65
7 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 60
8 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling 60
9 Daniel Martin (Irl) Team Garmin-Cervelo 53
Who?
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Sep 4, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That explains a lot
No way anyone can sprint wearing socks with sandals
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Sep 4, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Karl Vannieuwkerke says Boonen broke the scaphoid bone
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
Here is about the last we saw
of Friggins before the camera bike went down.
"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay
Love the 23% graphic
I was glad the bike went down at that point, watching Wiggo at that stage was painful
Was probably worse for him I guess
I remember when David Arroyo had the Giro pink jersey
I have to think Cobo, if he wins, would be a comparably-sized upset.
Schleckonds.
by dees ees en drama on Sep 4, 2011 8:31 PM EDT reply actions
Compared to if Arroyo were to have actually won, that is
Schleckonds.
by dees ees en drama on Sep 4, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, hmm
I’m not so sure of that.
Arroyo benefited by a huge breakaway group on stage…11 or 12 or 13 or something like that. If not for that breakaway in the pouring rain he wouldn’t have stood a chance against a Liquigas team throwing everything they had in the race plus Cadel as the main foil. In other words and as I see it, Arroyo was punching above his weight class-and did a great job trying to hang on.
In contrast in this here Vuelta, Cobo has been able to hang around again competition that IMO wouldn’t have stood a chance in that 09 Giro. Previous to this Vuelta, guys like Froome, Wiggins, Mollema, Poels were not thought of as the truly elite of the mountain goats. Sastre and Menchov seem to be past their prime. Nibali, Scarponi, J-Rod and Anton, the guys who are thought of as being truly elite or just below that level, all have had poor races which opened the door to…anyone. Cobo did not receive a big break like Arroyo did. Instead he’s been among the leaders in every mountain or hill-top finish and just took advantage of this weekend to show that he can climb better than the Froome’s of the world.
Not such a surprise. Arroyo couldn’t hang in the truly big climbs of that Giro-and no one expected him to. Cobo has a better rep as a climber than the Poels’, etc and showed it when the mountains became truly difficult enough to weed out the chaff.
The truly elite are being redefined these days
for some reason.
I was watching the replay..
….and his ride doesn’t look that out of the ordinary. He doesn’t explode away from them or anything. Stays 10-11 sec ahead of them for a good bit and then slowly extends it. I only caught till 4k to go but when jj rolled thru he was spinning smooth. When the chasers rolled thru 30 sec later they stood up and seemed to be grinding almost immediately aftervthe banner. Short stage, the right gearing, and a good day.
All posts are at altitude. Acclimation may be necessary
That's basically it
Add in the stage the day before and such a difficult climb today and that slight edge was enough.
I loves JJ Cobo's finish line salute!
Somewhere Michael Ball is crying into some model’s bosom.
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
by DemonCats on Sep 4, 2011 9:22 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
comment of the week.
Just try and top that one.
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 5, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
You guys must have missed Oss's salutes.
Viviani caught him off guard when he let him win but he was very animated when he was doing the lead out for Viviani’s wins.
\m/- -\m/
There are all these rumors, so there has to be something to it." - Jakob Fulgsang
Recall the "Cance look-alike" on top of the Cat 1:
Confession: the crazy fan is actually our bus driver, the great Danny in t Ven! Not @f_cancellara with a mecanical…
via twit
So I read inhere the other day that the Giro might still be affecting J-Rod and Nibs (and I suppose Scarponi and Anton and Nieve too)
I hadn’t thought of that. Too bad we didn’t have Rujano race this race. But do folks think this is true?
It makes what Contador did in the TdF even more impressive if it's true.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Seems farfetched
none of them have been racing much of anything in the meantime. Unless they went way over some physical levels in May…
(Anton I just plain don’t believe, he didn’t go 100% in the Giro, I’d think his recent illness would be more of a factor)
Seems a stretch for me as well.
"If Peyton Manning crashed onto a barbed-wire fence and returned to a game, you’d never hear the end of it for the rest of your life." Jason Gay
Nibali thinks that maybe he raced to little in his build-up
"Perhaps something was wrong with my build-up, and maybe only riding the Tour of Poland [and the Tre Valli Varesine, where was 15th – ed] was too little," Nibali admitted. "But I’m still convinced that you can prepare well for both the Giro and the Vuelta."
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Sep 5, 2011 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
interesting though that there’s not a single guy from the Giro who’s been much good at the Vuelta, on GC anyways . . . maybe I’m missing someone though?
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Sep 5, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Menchov.
Vuelta: 6th currently
Giro: 8th
Hardly really top results, but there seems to be some consistency.
As his VDS owner
I would not call him “good” so much as “the guy who destroyed my VDS team”
Any dumb f#*k who looked at Garmin’s roster could figure that out, it wasn’t exactly rocket-science. Hell, it wasn’t even lutefisk-science.
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 5, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You got Mench, I got Igor: truth is ALL the 12 pointers were a waste of points
VDS 12 pointers
UCI Team UCI Cat Rider Price Prev Score
1. FAR PROF Giovanni Visconti 12 390 660
2. THR PRT Matthew Goss 12 573 548
3. GEO PROF Denis Menchov 12 810 460
4. EUS PRT Igor Anton 12 1025 435
5. RAB PRT Oscar Freire 12 1046 333
6. GRM PRT Heinrich Haussler 12 290 250
7. KAT PRT Vladimir Gusev 12 370 180
8. RAB PRT Matti Breschel 12 855 90
9. KAT PRT Danilo Di Luca 12 0 20
10. SKY PRT Michael Rogers 12 897 0
Total: 10 riders 120 6256 2976
And boonen will be a 12 next year....
Please don’t do that to him
All posts are at altitude. Acclimation may be necessary
Nibali, Scarponi, J-Rod and Anton, the guys who are thought of as being truly elite or just below that level
None of these guys is in the “guaranteed to do well in a GT” category. Except for Nibali maybe, but the way he won the Vuelta last year was “just” by watching his rivals fade one after the other, not by being the best climber on any day. Now he himself is the one who fades. In the Giro he was also off the back a few times on the longer climbs.
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