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UCI takes away Kathryn Bertine's Olympic qualifying points


I've been following Kathryn Bertine's stories about her quest to ride for St Kitts & Nevis at the Olympic Games, and was surprised when I saw her latest update - all about how the UCI have taken away points she thought she'd won last season. I raised my eyebrows at why they took away her points from the Venezualan race:

Even though the Venezuela race was listed as a UCI points race and the points had already been given out, the UCI ruled not enough international teams had participated and rescinded the eight points I won there.

It seems bizarre, given that the UCI is all about "internationalisation", that they can decide to de-list a women's race in South America, where they surely should be doing everything to promote the sport in "non-traditional cycling countries"... but what really bothers me is how Bertine had to find all this out herself, and from how she tells it, don't seem to be particularly good at communicating with her afterwards.

I hope she can sort it all out - but it's good to see her article end on a positive - here's to her moving onwards and upwards, and getting stronger as a result.

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So the one deadline is fixed in stone

yet meanwhile teams just appear on the UCI site. After announcing 35 teams in a press release last week, Basque team Debabarrena – Gipuzkoa has just appeared without a word to make it 36.

Plus Evie Stevens still isn’t shown on the Specialised-lulu team sheet.

And even more ridiculously, Hanna Solovey still has all the points she got at Gatineau and at her nats, evn though she was busted for doping at the Tour of Chongming.

by Monty. on Feb 1, 2012 7:00 PM EST reply actions  

Yup

Have a look at this. All that time spent learning how to spell her name was wasted

by Monty. on Feb 1, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

(I guess hoping it's a typo is insane

but that * is * a spelling I haven’t seen before…)

Aka Pigeons!

by Sarah Connolly on Feb 1, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Pushing your luck a bit, perchance

Me, I’m really surprised that it got absolutely zero publicity, even within UCI headquarters.

by Monty. on Feb 1, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Two relevant rules
1.2.029 National road championships shall be run during the last week of the month of June. If this is not the case, no UCI points may be awarded. All results must be received by UCI by email or fax no later than two days after the last day of the event. No result received after that time shall be taken into consideration for the UCI classification.

and

2.1.003 To be able to be registered on the international calendar, a race must guarantee the participation of at least 5 foreign teams. A mixed team is regarded as a foreign team if the majority of its riders are of foreign nationality.

I guess this is the race, there were riders from 4 countries.

Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...

by TheFigurehead on Feb 2, 2012 3:21 AM EST reply actions  

was halfway through posting similar

The surprise should only be that the points were awarded in error rather than they were taken away once the error noticed. And arguably is surprising that the rider thought immediately before, during or after the race any points should be available.

The race also had some Brazilian riders that DNS/DNA apparently.
Points for this race the day before removed also.
All the Venezuelan riders that raced that weekend have lost considerably more points under the same ruling, some of whom have dropped out of the top 100 as a result (with up to 80 points lost).

Then again other riders are probably pleased their chances of qualification have been bolstered through having these points removed

by andrewp on Feb 2, 2012 3:32 AM EST up reply actions  

as a result of cancellation of the races

(and possibly other results) Venezuela team score plummeted around 200+ points since the rankings of June 11- taking them out of the automatic qualifying positions by country. Were in 15th once with outside chance of qualifying 3 riders (6-13th) and now languish down in 28th and need to do some work to get there via the country rankings (7-23rd) for 2 berths in the race.

by andrewp on Feb 2, 2012 4:41 AM EST up reply actions  

But how can they take back the ranking of a race after the fact?

It’s not fair on the riders who * did * travel there – especially when there’s a world of difference for S American riders to get to Venezuela than it is for eg Dutch riders getting to Belgium, even before we factor in the support for cyclists in different nations.

Apparently they’ve done the same thing about the 2011 Golan races as well. I think if they’re serious about internationalisation, they should have incentives, or at least different rules for races outside of Europe, USA, Aus and other places with big cycling cultures

Aka Pigeons!

by Sarah Connolly on Feb 2, 2012 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

There are already different rules for Nat Champs points

Points scored as follows (as of ranking 15 Jan)
Position – Road race Time Trial
Top Ten Nations
1 40 8
2 30 5
3 16 2
4 12 3
5 10
6 8
7 6
8 3

Rest
1 – 10 3
2 – 7 2
3 – 5

Equalise the points system and a whole host of nations riders stand a much better chance of gaining a place through the top 100 route. Globalisation with a pen stroke.

The late May/early June rankings the last few years (the ones the current qualification system for London relies on) sees the 100th place rider having scored, 47, 43.55, 37, 35. Automatic qualification for a larger nation Nat Champ, less so for a smaller nation. Then there will be arguments about the merits of a Mongolian or Israeli win v a French or US one etc (not to mention the hopes of getting a UCI executive/congress made up of voting delegates from such nations passing it is probably nil)
Would be a damn sight more in keeping with the Olympian ideal in one way, but may not be such a competitive race – going against the Olympian ideal in another.

Authorising potential points scoring races in various parts of the globe is the first step, getting nations to race there in sufficient numbers to make those races worth a ranking score is the second step (but an Aus/NZ race other nations cant afford to get to either also doesn’t score ranking points for the competitors – the rules can affect rich and poor nations equally).
Bertine losing points is personally unfortunate. Giving Venezuela 200+ affects riders from many nations. Ultimately there are currently 67 golden places available. A quality threshold also has to work in tandem with a quantity threshold.

by andrewp on Feb 2, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

There seems to be very little wrong with the rules imo.

How these are communicated and executed, now that may be another matter all together.

by Uphill on Feb 2, 2012 4:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't realise the second rule existed

but I’m glad it’s there. It’s been particularly noticeable on the UCI calendar this year that more than a few races have just popped up from nowhere in obscure parts of the world and with a ridiculously high ranking. And often they clash with well established races elsewhere. Lots of Olympic qualifying points for the home nation, but not really a serious attempt to grow the sport.

by Monty. on Feb 2, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The more look at this story the less substance it seems to have

What is basically all but a “Venezuelan only” weekend of events have the associated points annulled. Listing the races as 1.2 enables riders and teams of various nations to attend and score ranking points. They don’t. Has been listed the same status this year – so the opportunity to score points here repeats itself. In reality an analysis of the race says is effectively the status of a National Calendar race. The line up makes that seem fair. It should be scored accordingly.

The marked effect of leaving the race results alone and including them in the rankings is so disproportionate to the team rankings sheet that several other nations are directly affected, as well as the riders from those nations. Those teams’ right to fairness in qualifying probably outweighs an injustice perceived or apparent to any of the individual riders affected in the races concerned.

The National Champs thing is just sad. Then again organisers of races in nations such as Mauritius, Ivory Coast, Eritrea, Cuba, El Salvador, Mongolia, Zimbabwe etc all managed to get it right apparently. And the rule is extended to every race of significance where it is a requirement the race organiser makes available facilities for commissionaires to advise Nat Fed/UCI or a race result.
Perhaps the ire should be focused at the race organiser/Nat Fed where it belongs.

Bending rules is all well and good in theory. If the rider concerned is then to go on and qualify at someone else’s expense – then tell the athlete that misses out on a spot at the games because it of it why it was fair and just the rules were bent for the rider above her in the ranking.

There are many reasons why it is more difficult to qualify for the Olympics from a smaller nation, but the two reasons for the points deductions made are not amongst them

Discuss funding problems, lack of infrastructure, travel costs, regional race bias, disparate ranking scales for large and small nations, that 145 men will start and only 67 women, etc and can make much better points about the difficulties of qualifying than admin errors affect scores.

That said would wish the rider every piece of luck in her attempts to qualify.

by andrewp on Feb 2, 2012 7:29 AM EST reply actions  

Good points, I think.

Especially this:

Bending rules is all well and good in theory. If the rider concerned is then to go on and qualify at someone else’s expense – then tell the athlete that misses out on a spot at the games because it of it why it was fair and just the rules were bent for the rider above her in the ranking.

If the races don’t qualify, it just doesn’t seem right that they should award points at the expense of another rider doing races with deeper, more international fields. I get the difficulties of travel. But hmm, Bertine didn’t quite convince me here that she’s been wronged.

~ Gavia ~

by Jen See on Feb 2, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

There are rules that no-one objects to the bending of

AA Drink probably broke a couple registering late, for example, but in this case there are probably a few dozen people round the world going over the results line by line. THings get awfully tight after the top 15

by Monty. on Feb 2, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

One last aside

Bertine National Champ 2009/10/11. The 2009 points show up in the rankings of that year, the 2010 and 11 points do not. So Nat Fed apparently capable of getting the results there on time one year, but problem seems to occur and be repeated thereafter.
Lucky fluke the first time or continual crass ineptitude by the Nat Fed that was overlooked once. Hard to say really, but any blame really does lie fairly and squarely there.

by andrewp on Feb 2, 2012 2:19 PM EST reply actions  

It's not ideal that she is punished for a failing that is not her own

but the UCI do have to stick to the rule.

And I’m not really sure results in the St Kitts and Nevis Nat Champs should qualify you for the Olympics.

by William H on Feb 2, 2012 3:16 PM EST reply actions  

Long, but worth the read.

Some good points and questions, for sure.

~ Gavia ~

by Jen See on Feb 3, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

It is, and there is.

I saw a baby that looked like Cadel Evans the other day...

by John Cyclopunk on Feb 4, 2012 6:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Was a bit verbose!

There is a shorter version

UCI rankings (for a rider that scored 21 points)
29/6/11 134th (KB 8 points = 240th (first rankings after Ven races and Nat Champs)
17/7/11 137th (8 = 251st)
31/7/11 134th (8 = 255)
15/8/11 125th (not on list as has no points)

The 11 rankings still show the disqualified races with points theoretically scored for each rider, although it doesn’t count them in the revised totals. The team totals on the same rankings look fixed in stone, rather than subject to the vagaries of the rider related rankings and any errors.

The Venezuela team placed (on the same dates) 14th/13th/13th/28th. You lost your 8 points between 31/7 and 15/8. They are never coming back. Imagine if the Ven fed cant get them back you wont.

Nat Champs points – just never showed up it seems
St Kitts team score is (on the same dates) – 8/8/8/0

You wrote

Then, the really big kick: The UCI would no longer count my 13 national championship points

Did they ever?

I got a little confused when I didn’t see my name where it had once been

.
Was it ever there?

Or did you just look on the latest rankings where 21 points would place you (125) and carry on accordingly with the blog piece? And even that assumption is specious as if you kept your points so would the Ven riders and others, so 125 is not the place you would have slotted into. (The winner of your 8 point scoring race – now languishing on 12 points on the rankings – would be on 92, placing you in 126th etc)

by andrewp on Feb 4, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

should add

use of you = continuation of open letter meme, rather than being directed at JohnCP.
Have tweeted KB to say

@KathrynBertine any comment?. More than willing to fulsomely apologise where incorrect.

still awaiting any response, yet several more supporters have been thanked since.

Remain aware that, as as @inrng pointed out

"…McQuaid says social media "gives anybody a voice" & opinions can "become a virus"

by andrewp on Feb 4, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Appreciate all the research

but your use of 10, 11 as years throws me every time :)

"Beer helps." -- Ant1.

by tedvdw on Feb 5, 2012 1:28 AM EST up reply actions  

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