The day before "the decision": What are you hoping for?
So tomorrow the absurdly long drama of Cattle Gate..eh..Beef Gate..eh you know what I mean, ends. So I decided to throw up a poll to see where people stand at this date. Have many become indifferent to Bert getting a suspension or not? Do the majority want him gone or even for him to get off free? Personally I'm quite biased and want to see him roar up the mountains of T-A, Catalunya, Basque Country and go against Cadel in a TT heavy Tour. Justice not served? Well quite possibly, but the man has probably had to go through a lot of shitty days and nights since the end of 2010. I'm not saying it's just but with this thing having taken so long and Bert continuing to dominate I just don't feel it's all that relevant anymore. At least if it's two years from tomorrow the results of last year should stand. Either way Andy Schleck will never be the 2010 Tour champ in my eyes and Scarponi the 2011 Giro champ. How do you feel the ban, if it happens, should be given? Two years from tomorrow, retroactive and only six months from tomorrow with results stripped? Something else? Anyway...poll!
(also please tell me if there are other possible outcomes, I truly haven't followed the case all that closely)
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If they found he doped, which I have a suspicion he did he should be suspended.
However, I don’t want anybody to be condemmed to the fate of Zeke. This case should have been over at least six months, if not a year ago, and he should be suspended from that time.
Sminer: I blame KARMA for everything.
Jens: I've heard it's a bitch
Water Girl: I heard it ran over your dogma
Yes, but
He screwed up when they were on a break. She can’t forget that.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
What were the rules on pics? Can I bless this post with Bluffy?
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
We all know the "After" picture.
And, please God, let the copyright be held by somebody rich, powerful and litigious.
Contador has to go free.
You can’t convict someone almost three years after the facts happened.
(plus he’s on my VDS team)
sure you can. if that were the case, we'd never be able to prosecute anyone for anything...
…where any significant legal or investigatory process was involved.
How about almost 3 years after they've been charged with something?
"Englutch, the official language of the Podium Cafe (from January to April)" -Chris Fontecchio
Not sure what that changes.
Recall that this is an appeal proceeding.
Pol Pot murdered only 0.05% of the world's population,
far too few to gain any political advantage.
So surely he should be let off?
Oops, politics. Marat started it.
I'm hoping that the UCI and WADA learn something from this case.
Trying to hold people fully accountable for such minute traces of contraband is going to be a losing proposition.
I was originally hoping he would have gotten a one year penalty though, there is no doubt that there was clenbuterol in his system, just not nearly enough to alter his race results. Now I just want it to be over.
+
“I maybe wired a little…………..but I know this game” ah jens you’re taking me back to my glory days man……………
Rafa's on peds
There was a rumour earlier today
About 12 months. Or 6. So who knows.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
There were also rumors he was told he won't get banned
rumors are fun…
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
Yes, rumors are fun...
Let’s make more!
"Englutch, the official language of the Podium Cafe (from January to April)" -Chris Fontecchio
Phil?
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Are you tall enough to play basket?
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by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Steffi Graf, is that you?
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by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
You stole my
clothes, I want them back
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Marat
shouldn’t you instead challenge all to a racket smashing test?
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
I challenge Berdych to a "know where your face is" challenge
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
Oh right, I saw that
Dick Norman smashed someone in eye once at Roland Garros.
Coffee cures all. ~ Gav
I know it's not cycling but
Almagro is a twat and a rafa fan boy. Berdych is not liked by the Spanish especially the Madridistras after beating Nadal there a few years ago. as my signature says………… ;)
Rafa's on peds
May be true
but his response to a normal tennis play was pathetic.
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
I take it
you don’t play that much. from the baseline no problem, half way up the court is unacceptable at any level.
Rafa's on peds
Every expert pretty much said the same thing
and they played professionally. Players go at others all the time, I assume you have never watched doubles then. It was Almagro’s best chance to win the point in a 4th round GS match at 5-5 and 0-30 in the 4th. He hit his arm, nowhere close to his face, apologized, and Berdych acted like a 5 year old who had his teddie stolen from him.
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
It doesn't
only non pros are allowed to be DDIFP..duh
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
Well I assume you aren't a cycling pro
just don’t debate me on tennis, cause I’ll be the DDIFP winner there!
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
I couldn't afford
to be a cycling pro unless there were prizes for finishing after everyone has gone home!
Rafa's on peds
If he wasn't before,
he is now: http://ewoud.home.xs4all.nl/cycling/pn057_contador_mishap.wmv
"Pretty sure I always fake my sig line quotes!" -- majope
in all seriousness...
…how the fuck did he stay upright there?
Bike handling FTW.
That was great, wasn't it?
Jens, yes: Paris-Nice 2005 stage 7.
"Pretty sure I always fake my sig line quotes!" -- majope
Yup
But also today, from Shane Stokes (second part).
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, my biggest hope is that it's actually over tomorrow.
On a personal level, I think there is evidence that points to doping, but what I have seen isn’t conclusive. But I haven’t seen half the evidence and know too little to make firm conclusions from what I have. As a result, I’d like to see some kind of suspension, though I haven’t thought much about what I think is fair or proper.
On a sporting level, I hope the numerous agencies involved see how much it’s hurt the sport’s image to have something like this drag on for two years. While those of us familiar with the sport mostly feel things are changing for the better, it’s not evident to the outside world that it is. The proceedings with Contador and his ability to keep winning over and over during the judicial process took us a step back in the wider public image, I think.
I NEED MOAR MUD
I hope all the details of the conclusion are released
if he is banned for strictly the tiny traces of clen, well rules wise it may be fair but imma be pissed up in here.
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
I think they need to sort out the banning and the result stripping in a more rational way.
If they’re going to ban him for one or two years, then strip the result in the race where he is found to have committed an offense, and ban him. This idea, which I’ve seen floated, of stripping a ton of results gotten after the initial offense b/c he was involved in a proceeding and cleared to race while it went on would be grossly unfair.
Mostly, I care that the punitive measures start to be a bit more consistent.
One conspiracy theory was
that since CAS tends to issue bans starting on the last day the rider raced AC already knew he was geting off since he chose to race SanLuis.
That, or he knows that he's not going to lose results...
…besides TdF, b/c he’s been racing after having been cleared in the initial proceeding. Which would make sense….
Not sure if that's true, the start of the ban thing
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
It occurs to me that the retroactive result stripping...
…largely comes from Valverde’s case, which was always contested and not an appeal proceeding like this. I’m not sure there’s precedent for what would happen here if CAS overturns the Spanish Fed’s acquittal.
Tadej Valjavec
Slovenian fed cleared him, CAS overturned. His ban started on the date of the CAS hearing (I think that’s also what the WADA code says).
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Were his results from time he was cleared to time decision was overturned stripped?
This is what I’m curious about.
His results from April to September in 2009 were stripped
It was a bio passport case, and if I remember correctly, tests from April and September were the fishy ones
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Made some serious Swiss cheese out of the 2009 Giro standings
First Di Luca, then Pellizotti, then Valjavec (he was originally 9th overall IIRC)
So result stripping directly tied to violations, but not extending to include period after acquittal...
…to it’s being overturned on appeal.
retroactive result stripping
would only be a big deal if it included paying back prize money. TdF 1st place is a fair bit
moo
Would that come from Astana's coffers?
Or is that lovely story I hear from Phil Liggett every year about the Tour winner giving all his prize money to his teammates and not keeping a penny for himself just that – a story?
It's probably a small number compared to his endorsement deals
which he is likely more worried about losing.
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
Article 9 in the WADA code
unless I’m missing something, I think it means he should lose that title, and money, even if he doesn’t get a ban.
An anti-doping rule violation in Individual Sports in connection with an In-Competition test automatically leads to Disqualification of the result obtained in that Competition with all resulting Consequences, including forfeiture of any medals, points and prizes.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
I would say yes
And by yes I mean maybe. Have a hunch that UCI would deny Valverde to come back without paying the money, but then there was something about Vino and money he owed that might contradict.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
you are likely correct
but I am always a little surprised there isn’t more discussion on this aspect of things as for some riders (succesful and bad money managers) this should be a big deal – especially 2 years later when money might be gone.
moo
Looked that up
The Vino money was from that thing all the riders had to sign in 2007, if they tested positive UCI demanded a year’s salary from the riders. CAS said the contract wasn’t legally binding.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
It depends
If Contador gets a banned, then I’m not sure. But I don’t think UCI or WADA will go to other courts to have him banned, unless there’s something very, very, very strange with the verdict.
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 5, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
What I want is for justice to be served
If he doped, ban him. If he didn’t, don’t. Why does it have to be any harder than that? None of this Petacchi taking extra puffs from his inhaler crap. Either he cheated or he didn’t.
Either way
He deserves to keep the Giro. He’d have to have been monumentally stupid to be anything but squeaky clean during that race (and nothing ever came up, in any case), and it was still the most dominant GT win since Basso’s first Gir-that’snotsuchagoodcomparisonisit. Add in how human he looked during the Tour (while still looking superhuman, if you know what I mean) and it really speaks to the effort he put in in that race.
I guess I want him free to ride, because it’s likely any sanction will include nullified results.
He deserves to keep the Giro. He’d have to have been monumentally stupid to be anything but squeaky clean during that race
People are stupid.
Coffee cures all. ~ Gav
Ehh, not often when they're already under suspicion
This isn’t Thomas Frei we’re talking about here, this is the highest-profile doping case in quite some time. Only Puerto comes close, and that’s really only for sheer quantity.
That said, Ricardo's sort of special here....
…in the pathological sense of that term.
And
that relates to being stupid, how?
"I’m pretty disappointed, but if this is what people want to see, a race decided on a downhill," Andy Schleck said. "I don’t think that. A finish like this should not be allowed."
Okay, sometimes my train of thought /is/ a little convoluted, I don't deny that
But coming into the Giro. Bert, arguably the most famous cyclist in the world and less arguably the most successful of this generation (yes, the GT’s are what matters) has skated on a dope charge, but knows he’s not scot-free just yet (and even if he were, it’s got to have changed some people’s minds about him). Doesn’t it stand to reason that dope controls at the Giro might look at him just a little bit more than other riders? Am I way off here? One of, if not the, most successful riders of his time, with a doping cloud hanging over him…how brainless do you have to be to think you can get away with it under those circumstances? Even before he became race leader.
how brainless do you have to be to think you can get away with it under those circumstances?
very.
See: Ricco.
Coffee cures all. ~ Gav
But Bert has a lot more success
while Ricco has little success in races he wasn’t caught doping. Him dominating the Giro looks less suspicious therefore. Actually I stand by that his Tour in question has been his weakest GT performance to date
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
I'm speaking about believing Bert was clean in 2011
to me it is more believable than Ricco when he came back because Bert has been doing this for 4 years now. It’s perception and it’s subjective of course
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
Well yeah, to me too
I’m just saying I won’t stick my hand into the fire for him.
Coffee cures all. ~ Gav
Actually Ricco pretty much did get away with it
He was back for, what, 6ish months with Ceramica Flaminia and Vacansoleil before his hospital trip? Did he actually test positive for anything at any point? I don’t think he did. He just botched the job at home.
Sure, maybe Bert’s doing the same thing and he’s just better at it. Maybe Philippe Gilbert is, too. There’s equal evidence of that.
Indeed it is
I said “He’d have to be monumentally stupid.” I was referring to one man. ’twas you who made this a discourse about the nature of humanity.
And I was pointing that some men are monumentally stupid
Unless you have a really, really close relationship to Conta – in which case, tell us, is it true that he is really a girl? – there is no way you can know he isn’t.
Coffee cures all. ~ Gav
I'm not saying he is
I’m saying he might be. I’m leaving the options open. You’ve picked your candidate.
Coffee cures all. ~ Gav
Yes, sure. I also want you to give me your lunch money.
I don’t want you to do anything. Just arguing my case. DDIFP and all that.
Coffee cures all. ~ Gav
so but
is he a girl then? wow then Big Pat has got some serious back tracking to do. do you think he/she would beat Vos say at the ronde?
Rafa's on peds
I think he deserves the ban
Of course make it retroactive, he can come back for the Vuelta and finish off the season strong. I just don’t think there is a god enough reason in all of this to give him the benefit of the doubt.
A fresh and angry Bert in a Mountain heavy Vuelta
hello 8 minute victory
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
it is
a bit weird, I kind of understand the logic, in that the rider has received the advantage of doping from the date of the test and thus the results are flawed. but it does make a mess of it.
Rafa's on peds
Establishing that would be incredibly difficult, to say the least.
Surely a clearer and more practically applicable standard than that would be advisable.
Personally
I am convinced, and almost at ease with the notion that he was blood boosting (adding in his own blood), and that he is far from alone in that (yes, even today). And note that this means that I even entertain the thought that Evans is guilty of the same (though it would be a blow to my sensibilities on the scale of Zulle’s confession, were it to be found true).
As for the minute traces of clem found in his system. I just struggle to see how a definitive case can be made that this was doping, or more to the point, that you could definitely rule out that it was accidental and out of his control.
I other words, get over it people, get this cloud out of my blue sky and let the racing rule the news…..
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
I'm hoping it's over and that Bert can keep racing. Minute amounts of clenbuterol don't do it for me.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
While even minutes amount of Zubrowka always do it for me...
by FrenchKheldar on Feb 6, 2012 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
In my case it couldn't possibly performance enhancing :)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
We are so anxious to know!
But.I imagine that someone in Luxemburg even more anxious then us!
In loving memory of the HTC- Highroad
.
Someone in Switzerland may be even more anxious.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I'm concerned for his little pony.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Hope that
AC walks, it’s always good to watch him. (And if so, that having convinced 3 highly qualified independent observers that it was probably the beef at least some acknowledgement of the fact he succeeded in threading the eye of that needle so claims must have some credibility)
Expect – either way the Tour result to go (though probably not the others like the giro etc as “fairness dictates otherwise” etc) and RFEC to get a bit of a bollocking for that part of their decision.
Also expect 2 year ban and the hefty fine that is tied to it. Although a CAS discretion type reduction wouldn’t surprise.
Feeling less vengeful toward AC than previously...
And would like to see him continue racing. But still, don’t for a second buy the tainted beef story, and so I would like to see the Tour win stripped. I don’t suppose there is any legal rationale that would lead to this outcome, but that’s what I’m hoping for.
Also would like to see the Spanish federation slapped down for what appears to be pretty shameless homerism.
Start fast, finish fast, and hope you're fast enough-- Cadel Evans
hoping for two years and he got it!
Reasons
He is high profile sends a very clear message blood dopers who get it wrong-you will get punished despite big legal team and sympathetic local cycling fed.
"Whatever road I will take it'll always be HIGHROAD." Marco Pinotti
Still waiting for official confirmation from CAS--all the stories so far are based on Marca...
Verstand komt met de jaren--Thomas Dekker
Bici has published a UCI statement
Though it’s strange, since it sounds like a prewritten statement without knowing the result: “de…años/meses”
http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=47343
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 6, 2012 6:26 AM EST up reply actions
Quoted on twitter now as
“UCI acknowledges the decision of (CAS) to impose a suspension of … years/months on rider Alberto Contador.”
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 6, 2012 6:27 AM EST up reply actions
The Guardian is reporting that he gets two years.
Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.
-Orwell, Politics and the English Language
www.battleredblog.com
"according to Spanish media"--that's the Marca article again.
Nothing on the CAS site yet, but the Associated Press says it has confirmation from the Spanish fed president.
Verstand komt met de jaren--Thomas Dekker
Two year ban, starting from the Tour 2010 (which now is officially Andy’s). Giro 2011 also lost (to Scarponi).
He’ll be able to race again on the 5th of August, which means no Tour 2012, and no Olympics.
The source for Marca and all the rest (Sky, BBC, Guardian, etc…) is the Spanish Federation of Cycling.
which implies that CAS
not 100% convinced doping “proved” either – and chosen to go with the earliest date for a ban as one of only methods of showing a little “leniency”, otherwise could have thrown the book at him.
are you sure about that?
I thought first offences were all 2yr backdated? happy to be corrected on this though as I’m basing my thoughts on what I’ve read here.
Rafa's on peds
Do we "know" it's backdated?
Or is just an assumption based on the Tour 2010 results stripped?
Badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger...
by TheFigurehead on Feb 6, 2012 6:35 AM EST up reply actions
At some point, perhaps we'll get the actual announcement from CAS.
Still hitting refresh button endlessly…
Verstand komt met de jaren--Thomas Dekker
Chaos reigns (again) in pro cycling
it was always going to be a mess. it was and is an absolute offence – he was guilty irrespective of the reasons. he should have been suspended from the day the test was announced.
then it could/should have appealed. I bet you $1m that had been that way round AC would have got it deal with a whole lot quicker.
it’s definitely the right result but definitely a crap way of getting there. you, me and all keen cyclists are going to get it “all cyclists are dopers” etc ignoring the blatant abuse by footballers, tennis players, etc etc etc etc
Rafa's on peds
Maybe I'm listening to the wrong people or reading the wrong forums, because I haven't heard that for years.
I’m totally bummed about Contador. Bugger.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Maybe it depends where you are?
A lot of the time the mainstream media over here is only interested in cycling = doping stories. The T Mobile and Jan debacle still runs very deep here.
The business with Kittel last week gave rise to some fairly hysterical reporting and this is going to fuel the fire further. I’m listening to the radio now and I’ve already heard how this is evidence that cycling hasn’t rooted out the doping problem and anybody who wins a GT can really only do it on drugs. Never heard that kind of coverage about German tennis players. Huh. I want to move to Belgium! Wah!
"These are my principles and if you don't like them....well I have others." Groucho Marx
What a shame. I really felt for Kittel last week, and i feel for Ullrich. At some point, the media needs to move on,
and with such a talented crop of young German riders, it will be a travesty if they forget to celebrate that.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
That's the shame of it
they are forgetting to celebrate that. Even when Greipel beat Cavendish at the Tour last year (which was a very big deal for most cycling fans), the public TV channel doing the Tour highlights gave it five minutes at the end of an hour that had mostly been re-hashing doping stories.
The reaction of most of friends who don’t follow cycling was “Yeah, he won, but they all dope don’t they”. It’s a real shame. The way some sections of the media leapt on Kittel last week was awful – kind of, “Look, we knew all along he was doping!”
"These are my principles and if you don't like them....well I have others." Groucho Marx
It's a sad thing. Greipel, at our measly little TDU is feted and loved, and I don't think doping crosses anyone's minds.
Then you have the stellar performances of Tony Martin and those glorious youngsters. Added to that, I’m a huge fan of Kloden’s. I know he was probably one of the ‘Men in Black’, but as I said i think moving forward is good. So does this mean that Jens! is the only really celebrated cyclist in Germany? ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Yes, in terms of popular opinion, I guess.
Jens! is pretty popular, although there is the odd rumbling about him. Part of the problem is that he was born in the DDR and came through the same training system as Jan. However, he’s popular because he speaks his mind and he still lives in Berlin. He’s said several times that he stays in berlin because he wants his kids to go to German schools and he feels he owes the system, so he’s happy to pay German taxes. Goes down well.
Plus he is a very genuine guy based on my knowledge – I’ve met him a few times.
"These are my principles and if you don't like them....well I have others." Groucho Marx
Like everyone else, I'm a big fan, but some of those others, (I forgot the delightful Robert Wagner)
also deserve some love.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I don't think there was much else they could do, really.
It was an offence – he had a banned substance in his blood, albeit in very small amounts, and regardless of the reasons (and I never bought the contaminated cow story) they had to sanction him. I just hope that they learn some lessons from this and sort some of the rules and procedures out, but I’m not holding my breath.
"These are my principles and if you don't like them....well I have others." Groucho Marx
Why does that feel so empty?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I did mean to be ironic
but I also think that once you’ve served the ban the slate is clear. that is my view on scarponi, vino, vvd etc though I do have an exception in ricco
Rafa's on peds
true, i'm bummed too
but in a way, actually two ways, it’s a good thing, even if i feel for the guy, imo the greatest GT winner of all, maybe one day of all time…
1. there must be some kind of punishment, even though it’s not EPO nor even close, the contaminated meat excuse doesn’t fly, and why should he get different treatment from others
2. we need to get this over with… and in Sept. there’s Vuelta again, so cheer up :)
Looking at the poll
seems the UCI has once again gone against the PdC faithful. When do we storm their HQ already? I’ll bring the Panzer!
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts

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