Exogenous testosterone in Landis' A sample
German news is reporting that an IRMS test was conducted on Landis' "A" sample and showed evidence of exogenous testosterone (not naturally produced by FL).

Report here at CN
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul31news
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Cortisone would cause that result
The IRMS test would give the same result whether he was taking cortisone or using a testosterone patch or both. AFAIK there is no way to use that test to distinguish between the two.
As I said in a comment on another thread, the use of cortisone means that Landis can't use the IRMS test to counter the T/E ratio in his sample.
OTOH, they should be able to test all of Landis' TdF samples to see if the result is consistent.
Looks like this further leak on Landis' test results comes from the French newspaper Le Monde, which is associated with the testing lab, and was also the paper that wrote the infamous story with the alleged test results from seven-year-old Lance Armstrong samples.
by socal on Jul 30, 2006 2:52 PM EDT 0 recs
Disputed
by Chris... on
Jul 30, 2006 4:30 PM EDT
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NYT providing
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/31/sports/othersports/31cnd-landis.html
Courtesy of lili from previous post on another thread.
Not looking good.
So much for the conspiracy theories regarding French newspapers, French labs, WADA, etc.
by Rydr1 on
Jul 31, 2006 10:35 PM EDT
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No matter the outcome
by KevinK on Jul 30, 2006 4:42 PM EDT 0 recs
IMHO
by kalais on
Jul 30, 2006 4:48 PM EDT
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i guess
by KevinK on
Jul 30, 2006 6:13 PM EDT
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Let's see
"Edward Hopper frittered away gratuitous amounts of time watching six-day races in Madison Square Garden in search of inspiration. Undoubtedly, the recently concluded Tour de France has attracted his attention whilst floating around the ether. I've been possessed by the caustic spirit of Edward Hopper today, and a 2006 version of Nighthawks has been channelled through me via Photoshop. Click on the image to start the sequence of panels..."
by bethie on Jul 30, 2006 5:33 PM EDT 0 recs
Everyone has an opinion....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2094-2291741,00.html
Samuel Abt:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/30/sports/BIKE.php
William Fotheringham:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,1833551,00.html
by Lili on Jul 30, 2006 5:43 PM EDT 0 recs
I finally got inspired
by hughw on Jul 30, 2006 8:56 PM EDT 0 recs
Why were the stage 19 and 20 samples not positive?
Apparently, according to the reported A-sample test results, after stage 17, Landis' T/E ratio measured at 11:1.
Landis was also tested after stages 19 and 20, because he was the GC leader after those stages. But no "irregular" result was found in those samples, apparently.
Shouldn't those samples also have shown a T/E ratio above the 4:1 limit? It's not possible that the alleged "excess" testosterone simply vanished in two days, is it?
by socal on Jul 31, 2006 1:31 AM EDT 0 recs
Short half-life
Presumably, the two tests after the stage and the dozen or more test performed before the stage are normal (i.e., below 4:1). Regardless, even if Landis is one of those extremely rare athletes with a high T/E ratio > 6:1, his baseline values should not change by more than +/- 30%. So apparently, we are seeing an extremely high one-day only spike and the simplest explanation is doping.
by Rydr1 on
Jul 31, 2006 1:50 AM EDT
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Wow.
formulations of testosterone are available (in oral, gel, or patch form or by injection) which can can temporarily result in high urinary ratios of T/E. However, the ratios typically fall to < 6:1 within 4-6 hours (the typical length of a Tour stage).
That means that anyone riding a grand tour stage or a long one-day race could take testosterone the morning of the race and still pass a post-race test, unless they were careless or unlucky?
Wow.
by socal on Jul 31, 2006 2:04 AM EDT 0 recs
Yes
Band names, AndroGel, Rastandol, etc.
It seems as if the goal with testosterone, EPO and other drugs, is to dope your baselines up to the WADA limits (e.g. 4:1, 50, etc.) without triggering a red flag requiring additional testing.
(Small does of EPO aren't detectable past 12 hrs. Reading some of the stories in the professional literature also indicate a sickening number of guys showing up to drug control tests with freshly bleeding puncture marks over their veins. Throw in 500 cc of saline and your hematocrit goes down a few percent. You have up to an hour to show up for the test. The UCI makes it easy.)
by Rydr1 on
Jul 31, 2006 2:20 AM EDT
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I wonder why
Doping in professional cycling is a rather common, secular event. So why get so worked up about it? Let's see, if we go back a few years and do a little research we have Pantani (Italy), Veronique (France), Heras (Spain), Basso (Italy), Ullrich (Germany), Mancebo (Spain), Hamilton, Armstrong, and Landis (USA) all implicated in one way or another in doping. I'm sure I've left out somebody, but it's not like it should come as a surprise that cyclists dope. Americans don't have a lock on doping practices or the podium either.
So why get so bent out of shape? The only thing that seems to have changed over the last 10-100 years or so is the level of sophistication and professionalism so many guys from so many countries bring to bear on their art. The UCI keeps blaming somebody else (WADA, the French Ministry of Sport) and quite simply allows the practice to continue.
by Rydr1 on Jul 31, 2006 2:07 AM EDT 0 recs
The point of the article
Best examples are Dick Pound and J.M. LeBlanc issuing opinions based on the l'Equipe allegations last year. It's their job (well it's Pound's job) to be fair and scientific, not fly off the handle based on flimsy, OUT OF PROTOCOL, evidence. Pound is in CHARGE of the protocol, for chrissakes.
by hughw on
Jul 31, 2006 9:21 AM EDT
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Why do you think the Lab
The first lead I had was an American whom I doubt had any (zero) connection with the lab several days before Landis' lawyer started sniveling. The most likely sources I'd say are the UCI, Phonak, Landis himself, and WADA in about that order. The French Ministry of Sport is out of the loop by their own account.
Can you post a link with your source or are you just speculating?
The French, ASO, the Tour, the French Ministry of Sport, and the French press are doing everything they can to clean up their national event. Rather than admit their problem, the UCI in turn, turns around and blames them. The Tour is like the World Series and the Super Bowl in one to the French and dopers the world over are ruining it and the sport itself.
I for one find your insinuations against the lab very disturbing.
Since when are dopers allowed to commit fraud in secret? If you follow the UCI rules, the answer is always and forever. I don't care much about Lance's or Landis' or Heras' or Basso's or Ullrich's privacy anymore. In fact, I'm waiting impatiently for the names of about 50 more riders who are getting off the hook pretty easy so far.
by Rydr1 on Jul 31, 2006 2:47 AM EDT 0 recs
Ah well,
It's looking more and more like somebody on Floyd's crew really misfired on his re-up dosage the morning of stage 17.
I mean, where are we going with this? Floyd naturally produces massive, truly epic, and heretofore unremarked-upon amounts of testosterone?
Or perhaps vindictive French officials squirted testosterone into his samples.
I'm not saying the above theories are impossible, but in light of cycling's history, they just seem less improbable than the plain old boring fact that Floyd took testosterone.
I am, of course, still very much hoping that B sample comes back negative. It's all been very disheartening.
by 72andSunny on Jul 31, 2006 2:56 AM EDT 0 recs
Also
So fingers still crossed. I think it's great, too, that many people on the board here have been so supportive of Floyd.
by 72andSunny on Jul 31, 2006 9:40 AM EDT 0 recs
He strikes me as a likeable guy
by Mr Van P on
Jul 31, 2006 9:47 AM EDT
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I can come to terms with it..
by Mr Van P on Jul 31, 2006 12:55 PM EDT 0 recs
If the end result is a level playing field
by Mr Van P on Jul 31, 2006 1:17 PM EDT 0 recs
And you know, it occurs to me---
by 72andSunny on Jul 31, 2006 2:04 PM EDT 0 recs
Aye
They have failed at the 'win at all costs' thing, but they have succeeded, w/ exceptions, at changing the culture and rules of acceptible practice.
It makes sense to stigamize riders who test positive, and it makes sense to stigmatize teams that continue to employ them. Not just teams w/ horrible records like Phonak, but teams that don't clearly take a stand.
An interview w/ Jonathan Vaughters makes me think that the French teams would make a good model for going forward:
"After the 1998 Tour scandal, the French teams really said, 'Whether the test is positive or not is not the point. We want to be clean, period.' When it came to a team like Credit Agricole, it was just like the doctors were literally checking to make sure you weren't doping," Vaughters said. "It was a refreshing attitude."
I asked him if he meant refreshing when compared with his previous team, U.S. Postal.
"Ah. Uh. Heh, heh," Vaughters said and then paused a moment. "It was refreshing compared with the general attitude of the cycling world that I have seen in my life," he said.
The quote is from an article about Dr. Prentice Steffan in the SF Weekly. Some would call the article and the writer part of the so-called witch hunt. http://www.sfweekly.com/Issues/2006-02-22/news/smith_full.html
by Koppenberg on Jul 31, 2006 2:36 PM EDT 0 recs
You're very right about
I'm drifting off-topic here, but the reason I was thinking about Lance's lieutenants was because Daniel Coyle, the author of "Lance's War," was a guest on an American sports radio show.
After a long discussion about Floyd's current situation, the hosts asked Coyle point-blank if he thought Lance had ever doped.
Coyle hemmed and hawed for quite a bit, and then finally said he thought that one day Lance would have his own Mark McGwire moment.
(McGwire was a US baseball player and home-run hero who ultimately testified before US Congress that he had used [at the time legal] steroids.)
The fact that many of Lance's top lieutenants have since been busted on doping charges does not at all mean US Postal/Disco had an instituted policy of doping---but it certainly doesn't make Lance look good.
It has been, as I've written elsewhere, a completely discouraging and disheartening week for me as a cyclist and a cycling fan.
by 72andSunny on Jul 31, 2006 2:53 PM EDT 0 recs
Oops!
Anyway, how about a few numbers?
"Cycling News" reports of "40 surprise tests in Hamburg":
"The UCI carried out 40 unannounced drug controls on the eve of the Vattenfall Cyclassics in Hamburg yesterday. At a pre-race press conference, German federation president Rudolf Scharping announced that all the tests were negative. Afterwards, the winner of the race, plus two additional riders, were also tested."
Out of around 175 riders they surprise tested nearly 25%. Not too shabby.
by 72andSunny on Jul 31, 2006 3:10 PM EDT 0 recs
Vrijman Report
by Koppenberg on Jul 31, 2006 4:47 PM EDT 0 recs
And we are enormously grateful
by Koppenberg on Jul 31, 2006 5:00 PM EDT 0 recs
That may be true, but
by Sui Juris on Jul 31, 2006 8:17 PM EDT 0 recs

















